Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

Everybody saw this coming.

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

This blog will pay for itself.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

“They all knew.”

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

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106Comments

  4. 4.

    Brian

    Here’s something worth mentioning, considering my comment on Tim’s post about The Generals, and how I would not like to see Rummy taken out by the anti-war, anti-Bush media.

    The issue is the use of faked war photos being used by the media. Today, Malkin has a story about Bilal Hussein, an AP photographer who critics claim has ties to terrorists in Iraq and stages his photographs in concert with those terrorists. He’s reportedly been captured by American forces, with weapons and munitions in his possession.

    The problem of staged and/or manipulated photographs is one that seems new to present-day conflicts, thanks to digital technology that can effectively manipulate images for desired political effects. When I first saw Forrest Gump, and the images of Forrest meeting presidents in a seamless marriage of Hollywood stagecraft and acrhival footage, it was clear to me then that we would soo be faced with this technology being sued in harmful ways.

    Staging of photos or video footage helps to both fulfill the insatiable desire of news networks to have grisly material for their newscasts, especially if it fits a narrative they’re trying to convey, such as “the insurgents are winning”.

  5. 5.

    Brian

    The stolen computer story is in my LA Times today, but have yet to read it. Sorry state of affairs when we can’t control our assets.

  6. 6.

    capelza

    He’s reportedly been captured by American forces, with weapons and munitions in his possession.

    Define weapons and munitions…was he packing a pistol? :P

    Reportedly..by whom? Just asking. Critics?

  8. 8.

    Ancient Purple

    It was only a few months ago that some pharmacists were refusing to fill prescriptions for Plan B and the morning after pill because of their religious convictions.

    Now, they have upped the ante.

    The complaint also includes an incident from November 2005 in Yakima, in which a pharmacist at a Safeway reportedly refused to fill a Cedar River patient’s prescription for pregnancy-related vitamins. The pharmacist reportedly asked the customer why she had gone to Cedar River Clinics and then told the patient she “didn’t need them if she wasn’t pregnant.”

    Link.

    Glad to know the pharmacists know better than the doctor or the patient.

  9. 9.

    SeesThroughIt

    The problem of staged and/or manipulated photographs is one that seems new to present-day conflicts, thanks to digital technology that can effectively manipulate images for desired political effects.

    Something the Bush administration has certainly used to great effect.

    As for this new “16 days hysteria,” let’s just nip this one in the bud right now. For people who believe now that Iran is 16 days from being able to nuke the world, a simple question: Which number is greater, 50,000 or 164? Because one number represents the number of centrifuges working in harmony necessary to enrich uranium in 16 days, and the other represents the number of working centrifuges in Iran. Choose carefully, now.

  14. 14.

    John S.

    and how I would not like to see Rummy taken out by the anti-war, anti-Bush media.

    I wasn’t aware that such a media existed outside the confines of your own mind, Brian.

    Perhaps you could provide us with some real (not anecdotal) evidence that supports your claim that the media is anti-war and anti-Bush?

    My guess is no.

  15. 15.

    SeesThroughIt

    No, seriously, Family Guy isn’t that funny.

    The FG send-ups were the best part of those episodes, but the fake translations from the terrorist tapes ran a very close second. “Come on, the writing isn’t even that good.”

  16. 16.

    Brian

    Perhaps you could provide us with some real (not anecdotal) evidence that supports your claim that the media is anti-war and anti-Bush?

    Read every NYT, LAT, WaPo, AP and Reuters dispatch, and watch every nightly news program for the past, oh, four years. That should give you a good idea of the narrative. You have a lot of catching up to do.

  18. 18.

    richard

    Regarding the Bilal Hussein piece by Michelle Malkin,let’s be clear about this, Malkin issued a fatwah against the photographer with this article. Full-face identifying pictures, details of his employment and acquaintances, unsourced allegations that he is an insurgent…basically she’s trying to issue a death-warrant. If (when) this article gets into the hands of a Shi-ite militia or interior ministry enforcer, expect Bilal to show up dead. It’s on a par with the abortionist deathlists of the anti-choice fringe in the 90’s, and those lead to deaths. It’s the purest example yet of the pure unfettered danger of anti-responsible extremist populist married to global media penetration. It maybe Malkin’s worst piece of writing ever.

  20. 20.

    Brian

    Right, Judy Miller IS the NYT. Like Bob Scheer WAS the LAT (before he was dismissed).

    Hey, what’s Martin Sheen going to say about THIS?

  21. 21.

    capelza

    Oh Brian..you HAVE got to be a troll, really…

    The Defamer???? Though it is nice to know that Jared Leto, little skinny Jared Leto is hung like a wildebeast (maybe that’s the Gawker..I get them all mixed up). Is THAT where you get your political news from..a gossip rag?

    Besides, what does THAT have to do with anything?

  22. 22.

    Pb

    As I said elsewhere*, regarding the 16 days idiocy:

    I feel that many of you aren’t properly giving this topic the importance that it deserves. I’ll provide a couple of examples.

    Iran Could Produce Nuclear Bomb in 16 Days

    1. Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.

    2. Hey, I saw that movie–how to build a bomb in 16 days!

    3. Bush *could* become a responsible President, but he’s not going to…

    4. Now we know where Iraq’s aluminum tubes went…

    5. First we’re going to invade Afghanistan, and then Iraq, and then Iran, and then North Korea, and then Syria, and then Cuba, and then Venezuela, and then Saudi Arabia, and then Palestine, and then the US! Yeeargh!*

    * Yes, I’m guilty of shameless self-plagiarism!

  23. 23.

    Skip

    “Consider this an open thread and fair warning.”

    Yikes. and I just heard a rumble on thunder in the west, and spied an eagle with a snake in its beak. Parousia looms.

  24. 24.

    jg

    Iran could very well build a bomb in sisteen days. But it wouldn’t be a nuclear bomb, at least not one that uses highly enriched uranium

  25. 25.

    Brian

    Besides, what does THAT have to do with anything?

    It has nothing to do with anything. Just goofing. It is an open thread, after all. Can be about anything.

    Gawker/Defamer/Consumerist…they’re all must-reads for the less-serious side of our culture. I can’t take full-time immersion in Balloon Juice.

  26. 26.

    Punchy

    What the F#CK is up with that Loosey’ana parish almost hiring Mike Brown as counsultant (sp?)??? Were they just trying to lure him close enough so they could finally beat the living shit outta him?

    Seriously, isn’t this like (OK, it’s nothing like, but hyperbole is fun!) the Isreali gov’t hiring Neo-Nazis to assist with their leadership? Isn’t it like hiring KKK members to oversee the NAACP???

  27. 27.

    Brian

    Iran Could Produce Nuclear Bomb in 16 Days

    From what I’ve seen, it’ll take at least a few years for them to be able to accomplish a bomb. But when that time comes, they’ll have the capacity to build a few per year, at least.

    Three years is our next president. Whether they can build one now, or in three or five years, means less that what will we do about it? Does the West have the will to deal with this threat?

  28. 28.

    LITBMueller

    Official Administration Policy: Enacting regime change for any nation that support terrorists and militants by…supporting a militant organization and its terrorist acts against that nation.

    I shit you not.

    I guess we can expect a preemptive military action against ourselves any moment now.

  29. 29.

    capelza

    Gawker/Defamer/Consumerist…they’re all must-reads for the less-serious side of our culture. I can’t take full-time immersion in Balloon Juice.

    I prefer my fiction in book form…must-reads????? I hate this culture of gossip and innuendo and peeping toms.

  30. 30.

    capelza

    I need to add that the only reason I even know about those kinds of sites is from the IMDB. I like to go discuss movies, and the boards there are filled with cretins posting crap from those on-line gossip rags.

  32. 32.

    skip

    Oh Brian . . .

    I suggest you read the Washington Post editorials on:

    1) Powell’s UN speech. It was titled “Irrefutable.”
    2) The EU refusing to join in, titled “Standing with Saddam.”
    3) Bush’s illegal wiretaps, where the posties argue GWB did the right thing.

    The WPost has beat the drum for war since day one, and, as for the NYT, I need only mention Judith Miller–as was said above.

    So far from debunking this war, the MSM championed it, believing every word from the WHIG operation, starting with yellowcake to Aluminum tubes to balloon trucks. They called Rummy a sex symbol.

    Now they are chastened, as they should be. As YOU should be.

  33. 33.

    Brian

    I suggest you read the Washington Post editorials

    Ah, let’s stop right there. Editorials don’t always match the tone of the rest of the paper. WaPo and WSJ are cases on this point. The WSJ is very conservative, but the rest of the paper is centrist to left-leaning. Same for WaPo , but to a lesser extent.

    For instance, Anne Applebaum wrote an editorial at WaPo rightly denouncing the use of the word “gulag” to desribe Gitmo. But the NYT thought the word was apt. The NYT’s news and editorial boards are very like-minded politically. And the NYT’s ombudsman even went so far as to admit in writing that his paper is politically liberal in its coverage.

    You’re barking up the wrong tree, friend.

  35. 35.

    The Other Steve

    The WSJ is very conservative, but the rest of the paper is centrist to left-leaning.

    How does reporting facts make a paper left-leaning?

    Oh yeah, that’s right. You’re idea of fair and balanced is Pravda.

  38. 38.

    Ancient Purple

    zzyzx,

    I saw that, too. Funny how you can only criticize evolution the fundie way.

  41. 41.

    SeesThroughIt

    Krista: The Family Guy quips are in reference to the recent episodes of South Park that are ripping on FG for its style of having jokes that have nothing to do with anything. Personally, I thought FG was way funnier before it got uncancelled.

  42. 42.

    LITBMueller

    from the flying spaghetti monster broo ha ha:

    Board chairman Steve Abrams, who voted for the new standards, didn’t see the picture but said he thinks that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is silly.

    “Personally, I think it’s juvenile,” he said.

    Right.

    And tales of a nake woman created from a man’s rib running around in a garden having conversation with snakes is much more mature.

  43. 43.

    Steve

    This “16 days” thing is interesting. Yesterday Darrell went to the mat with the argument that the “official” CIA report on Saddam’s trailers said they were mobile bioweapons labs, therefore Cheney and friends were justified in repeating that claim even after it had been long since debunked.

    But when the official National Intelligence Estimate says Iran is 10 years from having a nuke, oh no, we can’t trust that! We must rely on leaks and random comments from pro-war types who tell us that it’s far, far less than 10 years.

  46. 46.

    Krista

    The Family Guy quips are in reference to the recent episodes of South Park that are ripping on FG for its style of having jokes that have nothing to do with anything.

    That’s what I like best about it, because that’s how my own mind works.

    Not sure if the earlier episodes were funnier, but the show is still one of the funniest on tv, IMHO. (You know, every time I type that, I always want to type IHOP instead, which then makes me want pancakes.)

  48. 48.

    ppGaz

    That’s right. If you take away the wit, the humor, the intelligent viewpoints, the well-informed banter, the style, the classiness, and every one of DougJ’s favorable attributes …. you have Brian.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  50. 50.

    Krista

    The Other Steve –

    I’ll forgive you that, but if you also dislike Battlestar Galactica, it shall be as a wound through my heart.

  51. 51.

    Ancient Purple

    Battlestar Galactica

    Battlestar Galactica is awesome. However, I am still not sure I liked the season cliff-hanger. Still debating if Bobby Ewing may make an appearance.

  54. 54.

    gratefulcub

    Brian says:

    Editorials don’t always match the tone of the rest of the paper. WaPo and WSJ are cases on this point. The WSJ is very conservative, but the rest of the paper is centrist to left-leaning

    Ugh. I truly thought Brian was real, and not a spoof. WSJ, left leaning?

    On the other hand, opinions like that would explain the right’s obsession with the liberalness of the media.

  56. 56.

    Brian

    WSJ, left leaning

    Maybe not left-leaning as you see the world. But their news and editorial boards are very different, as are those at WaPo.

    Do you even read newspapers? Or are you watching Battlestar Gallactica.

    Nerd sissy freaks.

  57. 57.

    Davebo

    OK, this is so sad it’s almost funny.

    Canadian Jeff Goldman, an ordained rabbi, was invited to serve as a U.S. Army Chaplain at the grade of Captain upon his graduation from rabbinical studies in the United States. He had been in the United States on a Green Card, and a Canadian citizen, Rabbi Goldman received a temporary waiver of U.S. citizenship requirements to enter the Army. His U.S. military service began in January 2001.

    It ended in January 2002.

  58. 58.

    Punchy

    (You know, every time I type that, I always want to type IHOP instead, which then makes me want pancakes.)

    Now this, los amigos, is freakin’ funny.

    As for Family Guy not being funny…hmmm…Shall I assume it’s because your TV doesn’t get loud enough for your crappy hearing aid and all the Geritol consumption is warping your sense of humor? I’ve actually reverse-ate some lunch once laughing so hard at an episode…

  60. 60.

    LITBMueller

    Seriously. What in the great blue fuck is going on at DHS?

    “TSA officer charged in boy’s kidnap attempt”

    Authorities in Idaho say they aren’t sure of the true identity of a Transportation Security Administration officer charged with attempting to kidnap a 10-year-old boy because they found personal identification documents — including Social Security numbers — for five separate individuals in his possession.
    …
    The station said the man known as Harrison has worked as a TSA officer at the Friedman Memorial Airport in Hailey since November 2005.
    …
    Police detectives in Ketchum arrested the man on Tuesday, after a 10-year-old boy reported that he had been lured into a red Dodge Dakota pickup truck while walking home from school and driven to an apartment complex by a man who invited him in to watch a movie, KTVB said. The boy left and told his mother about the incident and she in turn called police, it said.

  61. 61.

    LITBMueller

    The DoD has found where the chemical weapons have been stockpiled!!!! Furthermore, the rogue government that stockpiled these chemical weapons is continuing to defy its treaty obligations!!!!

    Problem, its us.

  62. 62.

    capelza

    Republicans disclosed a Spanish-language radio advertising campaign designed to shoulder Democrats with the responsibility for legislation passed by the GOP-controlled House that would make illegal immigrants subject to felony charges.

    The ads are scheduled to air in New Mexico, Arizona and Nevada — states with large Hispanic populations.

    Oh god, I hope I did that right..I have BJ linking phobia.

  63. 63.

    chopper

    please guys, blog on some beer. i can’t get the awful taste of passover wine out of my head.

  64. 64.

    John S.

    Read every NYT, LAT, WaPo, AP and Reuters dispatch, and watch every nightly news program for the past, oh, four years. That should give you a good idea of the narrative. You have a lot of catching up to do.

    I specifically asked for the following:

    Perhaps you could provide us with some real (not anecdotal) evidence that supports your claim that the media is anti-war and anti-Bush?

    And of course, you do the opposite. You have a lot of growing up to do, little Brian.

  65. 65.

    Jack Roy

    Chopper, that’s kind of funny; I was just going to appeal for an abstention from Friday Beer Blogging until those of us observing Passover can drink it again.

    And there’s actually some really good kosher-for-passover wines being made in a lot of places. If you had to make do with Kedem, you have my sympathies. (If you had Manischevitz, you’ve no one but yourself to blame.)

  68. 68.

    Brian

    And of course, you do the opposite. You have a lot of growing up to do, little Brian.

    Since when is it my job to educate you? Besides, your M.O. is clear from the outset: get me to dig up evidence, only so you can shoot it down as non-representative or anecdotal. You’r not the type who opens his mind. The mere belief that the major media is not left-leaning in its coverage of the war and of Bush is proof positive of that.

    Why waste my time speaking to a deaf person?

  69. 69.

    Brian

    Yeah, Juan’s got a good header there, but is it wise to follow people like him, treating this all as a simple game of chicken? If you believe that Bush can get too aggressive with Iran and that this would be dangerous, you should also believe that it’s dangerous to shrug them off as rank amateurs. If I had to choose between Bush and Juan “don’t call me John” Cole, what would you choose?

  70. 70.

    Helena Montana

    Pissed about what? Tell us so we can be pissed, too, or be pissed at you for being pissed.

  71. 71.

    Pb

    Brian,

    That’s long, and it’s interesting, but I don’t know if it’s useful–some bits of that certainly sound reasonable, while others seem to flatly contradict the ‘facts’ of the situation. As usual, the devil is in the details–sorting out what is actually useful, and what is disinformation, prejudice, opinion, etc. But thanks for the link, nonetheless! Also, here’s the follow-up regarding when Iran might be able to produce a bomb (hint: it’s more than 16 days :)).

  72. 72.

    John S.

    Since when is it my job to educate you?

    It isn’t. Your job is to substantiate claims that you are trying to make.

    Besides, your M.O. is clear from the outset: get me to dig up evidence, only so you can shoot it down as non-representative or anecdotal.

    But you haven’t provided any evidence. Thus far, you have only provided anecdotal evidence to support your claim. Therefore, we can see that your penchant for making judgments not based on facts not only often leaves you wrong. This would explain your desire to pre-empt rational discourse altogether by merely playing entire scenarios out in your mind and reporting assumption as fact.

    You’r not the type who opens his mind.

    Another snap opinion formed… you base this judgment on what exactly? Nothing, as usual.

    The mere belief that the major media is not left-leaning in its coverage of the war and of Bush is proof positive of that.

    I see. So, I ask for you to substantiate your hypothesis with fact. Your unwillingness to supply any evidence is the actual proof that you are correct?

    Interesting, er, technique you have there.

    Why waste my time speaking to a deaf person?

    You’re a very special boy, junior. Don’t ever let those ‘grown-ups’ tell you otherwise.

  73. 73.

    John S.

    If I had to choose between Bush and Juan “don’t call me John” Cole, what would you choose?

    You truly are a stupendous buffoon young man. Juan is a name that people can actually give to their children, and have placed on their birth certificate.

    Or can you not grasp that concept, “don’t call me Brienn”?

  75. 75.

    The Other Steve

    Maybe not left-leaning as you see the world. But their news and editorial boards are very different, as are those at WaPo.

    Facts are to Republicans, like Kryptonite is to Superman.

    This is why you don’t like the news. The facts don’t align with your preconceived notion of how things ought to be.

  76. 76.

    Krista

    Rumor has it you’re a genius.

    Christ…to whom have YOU been listening?

    And that’s why I don’t like BSG.

    Poop.

  80. 80.

    Pooh

    Krista, that’s from the Pilot of BSG…when Bathasar or whatever the horny professor’s name is first gets on the ship (I made it through about 5 episodes before I said “Feh!”)

  82. 82.

    Ancient Purple

    Krista, that’s from the Pilot of BSG…when Bathasar or whatever the horny professor’s name is first gets on the ship (I made it through about 5 episodes before I said “Feh!”)

    Gaius Baltar.

    But his most infamous line is “No more Mr. Nice Gaius.”

  85. 85.

    John S.

    You purple pissing panzy dinks are easier to beat down verbally than a Gorean Kajirae.

    Interesting study. After doing a little research, I found more than a few problems with it, including the following:

    According to the authors, the Drudge Report (60.4) is significantly more liberal than CNN’s “NewsNight” (56.0).

    RAND Corporation, a nonprofit research organization with strong ties to the Defense Department, scored a 60.4, making it a “liberal” group.

    American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), scored a 49.8, putting it just on the “conservative” side of the ledger.

    Aside from the highly unusual data produced by this study, there also remains the fact that the authors themselves seem to have an ideological bent. Groseclose was a Hoover National Fellow while Milyo was a Salvatori Fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Both have taken money (in the five figure range) in the past from other conservative think tanks, so I think their objectivity is highly debatable.

    Anyway, thank you for the link, but I seriously doubt thanks is in order for you imparting highly questionable and dubious ‘wisdom’ on us.

  87. 87.

    chopper

    And there’s actually some really good kosher-for-passover wines being made in a lot of places. If you had to make do with Kedem, you have my sympathies. (If you had Manischevitz, you’ve no one but yourself to blame.)

    actually, started with herzog (which is only ‘pretty good’ by comparison), but the moment everyone found out that all we had after that bottle was kedem, it was pandemonium.

    i’ve never had a kosher wine that didn’t taste like grape juice fermented behind a radiator.

  88. 88.

    Bob In Pacifica

    Wait till this story starts circulating:

    mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/14336462.htm

    In 2003 AT&T built little rooms in central locations for the NSA to sweep all communications. San Francisco, Seattle, Los Angeles. Phone calls, internet. I wonder if the changes in class action laws will preclude every subscriber from suing AT&T into dust.

    And people wonder why AG Gonzales was a little vague on terrorist monitoring. Must be a fuckload of terrorists out there, eh?

    So long 4th Amendment.

  90. 90.

    easyliving

    John S.

    Geez, you don’t have to be so civil. Are you not a teenager?

    In any event, I stand by the study. If you read the study, you’ll find the “problems” you have are reasonably explained.

    If you question the objectivity of this study, don’t you realize the “can of worms” you’re opening? Do you want me, and of course you, to discount every academic study because, not of the study itself, but the authors being human and having opinions? If given access to papers written by college professors, a strong case could be made for bias against anyone.

  92. 92.

    Kirk Spencer

    Yay, the Groseclose study. Or rather, the second Groseclose study. I’ll point out the most interesting weakness: The first study (of think tank bias) had some major flaws. The fact they use the measure of that study as their determination of THIS study is, well, if you base something on flawed data then regardless of intent or care of process the results are questionable.

    The mechanism for the first study was simple. They identified members of congress (house and senate) as liberal or conservative. (Amazingly, it’s a direct correlation with their party.) Then they searched through the congressional record for citations by the congress critters for citations of think tanks. Basically, each time the cite came from a liberal congresscritter the think tank got a liberal point, and conservatives gave conservative points. The final score, then, was a simple percentage: liberal points’ proportion of the whole.

    Note that they didn’t separate for whether the congresscritter was citing to refute, and while there was a mechanism for acknowledging the fact that there were more R than D it was very primitive and (IMO) doesn’t do a good job. (average number of D over the 5 years study against average number of R over the same period, ratio used to weight the points.)

    While there are a number of weaknesses, I thought the basic idea was interesting and worth doing again more rigorously – balancing for such things as when the D Senator from Nebraska cites an agency on the subject of farming it’s more likely to deserve a conservative score. However, I felt the study irredeemably compromised by the declared massage they did. That massage was Rand. Seems they didn’t like the results they were getting, so they artificially split Rand into two parts. One part was Military, the other was pretty much everything else. With that the results looked like the authors expected.

    That, by the way, is a paraphrase of their own statements in the final study.

    Now this study – the Groseclose Media study – uses THAT study’s results as its basis of measure. Media cites a thinktank labeled conservative, it gets a conservative point, etc. Again, it doesn’t matter why or in what context the think tank is cited, it’s just a matter of whether it was cited that counts.

  93. 93.

    The Other Steve

    If you question the objectivity of this study, don’t you realize the “can of worms” you’re opening? Do you want me, and of course you, to discount every academic study because, not of the study itself, but the authors being human and having opinions? If given access to papers written by college professors, a strong case could be made for bias against anyone.

    Absolutely!

    You’re funny.

  94. 94.

    capelza

    chooper, yes, it pisses me off.

    I could off on a long tirade about Christianity swiping the religious traditions of other faiths, calling them their own and then calling it a war on Chrisitans when some of those traditions are removed from the public square. Santa and his reindeer (Freya riding through the night on her reindeer driven sled dropping off gifts) to stuff stolen from the Persians, Egyptians, on down the line.

    Can’t these new Christians be happy with the 2000 years of pilfering we have already done? No, apparantly not. Of course it would never occur to them that appropiating and altering the meaning of Seder/Passover might be insulting and insensitive to the people who have been observing it for milinnea.

  96. 96.

    John S.

    Geez, you don’t have to be so civil. Are you not a teenager?

    Projection is an ugly mechanism for intrapersonal contact, easyliving.

    In any event, I stand by the study. If you read the study, you’ll find the “problems” you have are reasonably explained.

    And if you read any of the critiques of the study, you will find that the methods were seriously lacking. Nevermind the fact that a large number of the conclusions drawn are simply laughable. But I’m glad you – a person who was not a part of the study – stand behind it. That means a lot.

    Do you want me, and of course you, to discount every academic study because, not of the study itself, but the authors being human and having opinions?

    No, I want to cease relying on highly disputable studies as solid ‘evidence’. In the academic community, studies are usually vetted several times over before they rise to the level of being accepted as fact, and this study doesn’t even come close to that despite your attempt to portray it otherwise.

    If given access to papers written by college professors, a strong case could be made for bias against anyone.

    When the professors have accepted thousands upon thousands of dollars from ideologically bent organizations, it is very easy to make a case of bias.

    Anyway, like I said, it’s an interesting study but hardly the gospel you are pimping it as. Better luck next time, though.

  97. 97.

    chopper

    I could off on a long tirade about Christianity swiping the religious traditions of other faiths, calling them their own and then calling it a war on Chrisitans when some of those traditions are removed from the public square. Santa and his reindeer (Freya riding through the night on her reindeer driven sled dropping off gifts) to stuff stolen from the Persians, Egyptians, on down the line.

    what i also like is when christians, who spent around 1500 years actively trying to destroy judaism completely, decide to start co-opting their religious rituals. how insulting is that?

  98. 98.

    capelza

    But chopper, you are being “insensitive” to Christianity, don’t you know…you must be part of the war on…oh I can’t even do it.

    Yes, that sick irony is obviously lost on them. I’d love to see them react to another faith appropriating the cross and twisting it’s meaning. I’m sure they’d be fine with that.

  99. 99.

    SeesThroughIt

    what i also like is when christians, who spent around 1500 years actively trying to destroy judaism completely, decide to start co-opting their religious rituals. how insulting is that?

    Incredibly insulting. A Christian seder? Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick, what the hell is the matter with you people?

  100. 100.

    chopper

    bad things about the christian seder:

    first, they eat, then they go through the ceremony. part of the seder (literally ‘order’) is the order in which it is performed. you eat halfway through for a reason.

    second is the insulting redefinition of everything. now a matzoh represents jesus. and the wine, jesus. and the shankbone, jesus.

    which is funny, cause the shankbone represents the sacrificial lamb killed in the haste of passover, not an atonement of sins (like christians believe jesus to be). the old tradition of sacrificing a goat on yom kippur, that’s sacrificing an animal to atone for sin.

    they can’t even get their metaphors right.

  101. 101.

    SeesThroughIt

    now a matzoh represents jesus.

    That one really jumped out at me. The matzoh…represents Jesus. That’s so ridiculous, I don’t even know where to begin.

  102. 102.

    chopper

    well, you know how much christians love to represent jesus in the form of a cracker.

    if they rewrite the sh’ma to make it about jesus, i’m getting torches and a pitchfork.

  104. 104.

    slickdpdx

    Nothing is funnier than religious disputes.

    Voltaire

    For the rest, this name of Bram, or Abram, was famous in Judæa and in Persia. Several of the learned even assert that he was the same legislator whom the Greeks called Zoroaster. Others say that he was the Brahma of the Indians, which is not demonstrated. But it appears very reasonable to many that this Abraham was a Chaldæan or a Persian, from whom the Jews afterwards boasted of having descended, as the Franks did of their descent from Hector, and the Britons from Tubal. It cannot be denied that the Jewish nation were a very modern horde;that they did not establish themselves on the borders of Phoenicia until a very late period; that they were surrounded by ancient states, whose language they adopted, receiving from them even the name of Israel, which is Chaldæan, from the testimony of the Jew Flavius Josephus himself. We know that they took the names of the angels from the Babylonians, and that they called God by the names of Eloi or Eloa, Adonaï, Jehovah or Hiao, after the Phoenicians. It is probable that they knew the name of Abraham or Ibrahim only through the Babylonians; for the ancient religion of all the countries from the Euphrates to the Oxus was called Kish Ibrahim or Milat Ibrahim.

  106. 106.

    capelza

    chopper Says:

    well, you know how much christians love to represent jesus in the form of a cracker.

    And on grilled cheeses, roadway walls, bathroom doors, etc., etc. Okay some of those the BVM, but you know what I mean.

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