I have a ton of stuff going on, and I am actually sick of the primaries. Sorry for the lack of posting,, but all I really have to say right now would start to sound like Sullivanesque Hillary Derangement syndrome.
I simply can not believe that with the Republican party completely bereft of ideas, McCain willingly taking on the luggage of the Bush years and the Iraq war, and Team Hillary has decided to make this primary about “experience” and is launching ads that look like they have the RNC seal of approval.
Well played. I really am looking froward to a Clinton free era. At any rate, consider this an open thread.
ThymeZone
If I never have to see her on tv again, it would be fine with me. But I do have to admit, she’d make a fine Senate Majority Leaderessette, or whatever you’d call her.
And all girl, all Dem Congressional leadership?
Hell yeah, why not?
p.lukasiak
START to sound?!?!?
zsa
Remember in 2004 when the youth vote was expected to put Kerry over the top? And then they didn’t show up for the election?
Are the little bastards going to remember to vote this time around? Did the last 4 years teach them that maybe it does matter if they vote or not?
Is our children learning?
zzyzx
I hope I’m wrong, but I’m starting to think we better get used to the sound of President McCain.
DrDave
HRC might actually make a fine Senate Majority Leader, which could very well be her concession prize.
DrDave
Oops, TZ, wrote before I read. Sorry.
jrg
The librul media finally got to Warren Buffett.
Either that, or successful investing is somehow correlated with reality-based thinking.
Delia
I’m pretty sick of Pelosi, to be honest. She’s quite the sellout.
And what tore it utterly for me with Clinton was last night on 60 Minutes in her interview with Steve Kroft when she would not make an unequivocal statement that Obama is not a Muslim and that this is a dirty smear.
That was as low and dishonest as it comes.
Svensker
Chris Dodd for Majority Leader. GOODBYE Harry!
GSD
In the words of Florida GOP state senator Bob Allen:
Can’t we all just get a schlong?
-GSD
Wilfred
No, it isn’t, but this is
Me and, me and, me and John McCaaaaaaaaain
ThymeZone
Crude. Sexist. Inappropriate. Gratuitous.
But funny as hell. Thanks.
demkat620
Yup. She’s gonna run scorched earth from here on out, just so she can run against President Doddering Old Man Mccain in ’12.
I can’t do it. I can’t vote to put that circus back in the WH if she pulls this off. I can’t even listen to her talk anymore. I’m just exhausted with the Clinton circus. Please OH & TX put an end to this tomorrow. Do it for your country.
Scotty
Hey, it worked out great for the Soviets, right?
zsa
Have you looked at the economy lately? By November it will be very clear that we are in the midst of the Republican Recession of ’08, and possibly ’09 and ’10. Due entirely to a conservative political philosophy that has forgotten the lessons of the Great Depression and the boom-and-bust, unfettered capitalism that preceded it.
The electorate is about to learn some very hard lessons about how a party that doesn’t believe in effective government is incapable of governing effectively. QEFD.
A gerbil in golf shoes will easily beat any candidate the GOP puts up.
p.a.
We stand at the edge of a Clinton and Bush free era! Dare to dream. One question and one comment. Has GW blown it for Jeb ever having a chance; damaged the family brand to that extent? Before you answer, remember Americans’ political memory seems to be measured in nanoseconds.
Our R.I. primary is tomorrow. I worked for Sen. Whitehouse in 2006, so the RIDem party has my contact info. So far 5 Obama contacts; 2 house visits, 2 actual human phone calls, 1 robo-call. HRC: no contacts.
More than just getting out numbers,Dean’s 50-state strategy and Obama’s ground operations make people feel part of the process, and given the atomistic state of American society that has to be a great motivator. For all the deserved criticism of right-wing politics, the footsoldiers on the right were made to feel part of something larger than themselves (while their pockets were being picked).
jcricket
Whomever is the next leader must be like Daniel Day Lewis in “There will be blood”. I want them out there saying whatever the political equivalent of “I drink your milkshake” to the mendacious and obstructionist Republicans in the Senate.
Senate politics are ridiculously complex and anyone who doesn’t know how to work the system to our advantage should immediately be pushed aside for someone who’s willing to do what it takes to make the Republicans look like the fools they are when the oppose the Democratic Senate majority.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I’ll take it, only insofar as it give the nation a better chance to settle on the fact that she would not make a good President.
I’d prefer SCOTUS, where she no longer has to feel unimportant. And maybe — just _maybe_ — she bothers Scalia so horribly that his organs liquefy and he’s forced to retire.
/What disgusting Justice would use _24_ as inspiration for a legal foundation??
Zifnab
It’s 1929 all over again! Horray!
I’ll still vote for Hillary over McCain if it comes down to the wire. Hillary can pretend to claim at least a few good ideas to her name. I’d hate to see the country in the hands of “Maverick” McCain and the Broder Democrats for four more years.
Let Hillary stay in the Senate. When she says something intelligent, we’ll make a bill out of it. When she says something flipping retarded (your states don’t count!) we’ll politely ignore her and give Mark Penn a wedgie after class because we all know he put her up to it.
President Obama will have a great run in so far as he seems like he’s got his shit together running this primary, and I’ve got high hopes for him in the highest office. If the only criteria for President is “gets things done and gets them done well”, I think he’s a winner.
Capri
A gerbil without golf shoes will beat McCain. In Florida the Dem candidates did not campaign. The Republican candidates campaigned a ton – it was a hotly contested state.
Hilary without ANY time or effort beat McCain in total votes by a fairly large margin.
demkat620
From Karen Tumulty over at Time’s Swampland Blog
Dear god in heaven, are they insane? And I am sorry all, I tried John’s primer but it was an epic fail.
zsa
Yes.
The Bush family brand, such as it is, will give off a Nixonian reek for decades to come.
I know people want to see the end of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton dynastic politics, but in hindsight, Clinton I was actually reasonably successful. As was Bush the Elder. Clinton II would in all likelihood be as successful as circumstances warrant.
I’ll vote for her unhesitatingly if she gets the nod, but – by Cthulhu’s sweaty, nidorous ballsack, we really need some fresh blood …
demkat620
Oh hey, the linky thingy worked. Look at the oldhead makin’ with the techno!
firebrand
John, at this point, can you really call it Hillary Derangement Syndrome anymore? After all the B.S. her campaign has pulled, wasn’t it in retrospect quite justified to be very anti-Hillary?
Jen
Open enough for me to say that the new Tift Merritt CD (only $8) is really good? I’m not paid to say that or anything. I just want to be her.
Dug Jay
It’s a tad amusing to see all these comments putting down the Clintons, both Bill and Hillary, given the very long history on this site in which the Clenis and spouse were defended to the death. All manner of Clinton era shenanigans were excused, rationalized and defended just a relatively few months ago.
demimondian
*Froward*? What a sexist thing to write.
Dennis - SGMM
“And, if you fail to pass this bill, I will speak for a full sixty minutes. I will add a further sixty minutes for each successive failure!”
Compared to her voice, particularly when she’s exercised, running a beer bottle through the garbage disposal sounds like a choir of angels.
Liberal Masochist
This following story is 100 pct true. I was at the Houston Rodeo parade on Saturday (the annual rodeo is a big deal here and lasts a month – it is kicked off with 5k/10k fun run and a big parade through downtown, thousands of runners and spectators and so on – as an East Coaster it is actually pretty cool).
Anyway, I was walking down the sidewalk along the main parade route and walking toward me was a skinny guy, early to mid twenties, pasty white with the kind of wispy facial hair that you spend a few weeks growing out before someone clues you in that you can’t actually grow a real beard. He’s handing out flyers and announcing to anyone who will listen that “they are rigging the election for Michael Bloomberg.” On his flyer was a caricature of a bucking bronco with Bloomberg’s face where the horse’s head was supposed to be. In bold print, the flyer warns, “Houston, don’t get bucked by Michael Bloomberg!” with a bunch of fine print that I am showed explained everything.
So as he repeats his claim directly to me while trying to force a flyer into my hand. I refuse the flyer (which in retrospect was the wrong move) and I ask him who is rigging the election. “Wall Street” is the reply with a look at me like I must be a complete idiot not to know this. I ask him if he is out of his mind. He says no, that he is very much “in his mind.” This goes on for about 30 more seconds before I tell him to find a better use for his time and walk away. As I was talking to him, I noticed he was wearing a few pieces of Larouche flair.
Here’s my question: what the heck was this guy talking about? Is there really some crazy conspiracy theory about Wall Street and Michael Bloomberg rigging the election? I thought LaRouche was in jail for tax evasion or dead or something.
Really wish I kept that flyer…
JC
John, you think THAT is bad –
You’ll LOVE this!
If HC loses, she just cut – for free – one of McCain’s national security ads (even Hilary thinks I’m better for national security than Obama, who gave a speech!)
libarbarian
George Soros told us to change the party line.
The liberal conspiracy is even bigger than you think.
Jorge
I have no problem voting for McCain, especially if the hill is going to be in Dem hands. We’ll lock up the government and McCain will go nuts cutting budget and earmarks. I would much rather have 4 years of lowering federal spending and no new major laws than more Clinton BS. Cause really, there is no way she is passing health care with out 60 votes.
Plus, I’d much rather have McCain answering the phone at 3 AM than Hillary. By a mile.
zsa
libarbarian, ixnay on the astvay eftlay ingway onspiracysay.
Dig Dug … errr … these aren’t the droids you’re looking for …
Dennis - SGMM
Hey! Lay of off the Dug Jay! None of us can possibly know that toll that it takes on the Dugster to stop jerking off into one of his mom’s moldy old shoes and accuse all of posting in support of an administration two years out of office when this blog started.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You sexist pig.
I thought we all agreed to call it an ersonspiracypay.
There are daughters that work long and hard at being mediocre, too, you know!
Martin
Just because that stuff wasn’t true doesn’t mean that they aren’t still shitty people.
I’ll be the first to say that Bush didn’t really go on a cocaine ride one night and fuck a a mule, but he’s still a completely worthless human being.
jake
All hail the mighty Global Standard Deity.
Zuzu
I think that may be a bit of a myth.
The numbers for 18-24 yr old voters were up by 11% in 2004, and turnout also increased for the 2006 mid-terms.
And there was also an increase for the ’08 primaries and caucuses.
CIRCLE
zsa
You say that like it’s a bad thing …
On the bright side, I’ve got a batch of oatmeal stout that’s ready for drinking as early as tomorrow. Nothing has exploded, although it has come remarkably close (leading to plans with the boy for an air-pressure science experiment sometime next week … the experiment loosely titled “See if the bottle explodes or if the cap just goes flying off” … being 10, he’s rooting for the former, as am I). My wife is still somewhat tolerant of this homebrew kick (not yet sure if this tolerance extends to Perrier bottles detonating in the back yard … plausible deniability must be preserved), and mom is wandering around in the garage wondering why she can find only the left shoes.
Once this election bullshit is over, the beer is going to taste soooo good.
ding7777
Way to go, John. Now that there is a qualified women running, experience ain’t worth so much (but don’t lose the “experience” card, you’ll be sure to play it in the future when another woman runs) .
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Fixed for pathetic blindness to Hillary’s miserable flaws _as a candidate_.
This is getting old, but I don’t mind. I’m going to enjoy verbally stomping on these ignorant, whiny bastards until they realize they’re choosing the top officer of the Executive Branch, not the next American Idol.
demimondian
Yeah, look, ding. It’s really quite simple: Clinton’s got CLEAVAGE. Therefore, Clinton is poorly qualified.
Got that?
Dennis - SGMM
Umm, and in the general election she’ll compare her experience with McCain’s? I will paraphrase myself from the thread below: if being fucked in the White House for eight years constitutes experience then I’m running for president becuase I’ve been fucked by the White House for sixty years.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Demi: I _dare_ you do go find one instance of where I ever even implied that my dear Senator was disqualified because she’s a she.
Just because everyone else has loosened their belt and let it all hang out because Clinton looks like a loser, I have not, and I reserve the right to disqualify her for my vote for serious reasons.
Torture. Is. Always. Wrong.
0 pts. Clinton,
1 pt. Obama,
0 pts. McCain (he retracted, that pitiful ass)
0 pts. Huckabee
Any questions?
zsa
McCain/Gannon, ’08!
chopper
when her experience is ‘being first lady’* and she expects to go up against a guy who’s been in the senate since the early stone age, i’d have to say her experience aint worth so much. i’d prefer to have a candidate that works against mccain’s weaknesses rather than shrivels under his biggest strength.
*BTW, she claimed that her experience being first lady helped her come to the decision to vote for war in iraq. fat lot of good her ‘experience’ has done for us, eh?
chopper
apparently zell miller is back, only as a clinton. great.
Pb
Are there any rules against Hillary campaigning for McCain here? Sounds like she’s going to be pissed when she doesn’t even get the Republican VP slot.
wogget
Off topic: Thanks to John’s work on the lapel pin meme I worked up a little Youtube thingy, using Jack Kingston’s appearance on Dan Abrams. I post it here since y’all did some of the work and provided the inspiration. Thanks
Hypatia
Wow. Big of you.
TheFountainHead
Is it medically safe to consume an intoxicating level of alcohol from now until Denver?
demimondian
Um…ok. Here’s what you wrote in the comment I was responding to:
[Strike-outs in original.] You may not have *meant* to imply that she was unqualified by virtue of her gender, and I believe that you merely worded your comment artlessly — but, no matter what you meant to wrote, what you *did* write did imply that a fully qualified candidate could not be a woman. (Or you wouldn’t have struck out the word woman.)
Do I think that you’re actually a sexist? No, actually I don’t; I think you made a funny that didn’t quite work as you intended. That doesn’t change what you wrote, and it’s what you wrote that I responded to, not what you meant.
p.lukasiak
I happen to think this is pretty funny….and I’m proud that the Clinton campaign is sending the press corps the message that it needs to be sent.
demimondian
It’s funny, but in a “WTF were they thinking? Were they even thinking at all?” kind of way. That’s the kind of thing which a ground game prevents. It takes them off message, and reinforces the message that her campaign is basically collection of poorly prepared
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
No, I struck out “woman” because it’s *completely irrelevant* to the argument of her disqualification.
Maybe you need help. Here’s how “fixing” works on teh Intrawebbers: You remove, by striking, what is incorrect, and you put in what is correct — or at least more humorous. You do not strike out to imply a negative value on the semantics, because that would be stupid enough to make Hewitt pause.
But I’m sure that as someone who wasn’t born yesterday, you knew that. And I’m sure you knew that I was saying that “Hillary is a candidate”, and disqualifying that “Hillary is a woman” is unimportant.
But you decided to take a swing anyways, didn’t you? It’s shit like that which allows scurrilous accusations to keep appearing, and keeps us from attempting to agree on a candidate.
Nice.
demimondian
Um, CfC? Can I teach you something about *reading*? You don’t get to specify how what you wrote is read. I know, life is tough that way, but…gosh, it’s just something you have to deal with.
If you don’t intend to be misread, be extremely careful what you write. It’s as simple as that. When you’re writing in a rhetorical minefield, think even harder. If you find it impossible to write something which says what you want to say without opening you to malicious but plausible readings, then…don’t say anything at all. You’d be surprised how often I write a posting two or three times here, and then just throw it out.
OriGuy
In the old USENET days, when we didn’t have
strikeout, the same effect would be obtained by following a word with the appropriate number of ^H to indicate backspaces, or ^W, which was the TECO (I think) command to delete the last word.Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I did, and you’re oh so adorable when you feign stupidity to make the others feel better.
read what you wrote:
Now read my edit:
You see the bold? That makes a phrase “poorly-qualified woman [spell-correction]”
This implies, because of the modifier, that there are women OTHER than poorly-qualified candidates. Otherwise, “poorly-qualified” would be redundant, and good form would force me to discard the modifier.
See how that works? You can stop faking your Hillbotting now, and get back to reality.
Asti
Now, now… stop that. She’s doing what she can to show that she’s thinking along different lines than her predecessors. She gave the press a “REST ROOM”.
/snark
OriGuy
Ok, that didn’t come out right; I didn’t check the preview.
In the old USENET days, when we didn’t have
strikeout, the same effect would be obtained by following a word with the appropriate number of ^H to indicate backspaces, or ^W, which was the TECO (I think) command to delete the last word.Preview showed the carets but they didn’t come out in the end. Hope the & # 94 works.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Well… welcome to the “Word Press Days”, where every attempt at ^ctrl-chars are taken to be super-script^, every approximation using tilde ~is supposed to be subscript~, every multiplication *is bolded for readability*, and
every subtraction is struck-out because of a reason God only knowsOriGuy
Back on topic; one of Clinton’s talking points seems to be that she already knows a lot of world leaders. However, most of the ones she met while living in the White House are out of office.
Asti
Careful OriGuy or demi’s gonna get on your butt next!
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Yeah, but you can get nailed by using gt; and lt; entities. Apparently there’s more than one interpreter running here. One pass gets to parse the entities, and another parses the tags.
This format is the bane of my sad, sad geekery.
Asti
It’s called the Armageddon clause. ;)
ntr Fausto Carmona
Yes: “Feel free to keep fellating McCain, you’ll get nothing and like it from Hillary.” That’ll show ’em!
Y’know, its like the Clinton campaign and their Hilbots actually want us to lose in November. Are they Cubs fans and/or sadists?
Asti
I’m sorry, I just can’t, I’m all tapped out.
Asti
I think they’re just lost.
John S.
Actually, it’s racist.
demimondian
John S. FTW
jake
Sexist!
The Other Steve
Christ, I date back to BBS’s where the ^h actually did a backspace, and we had spinning cursors.
John S.
One of us…one of us…
Brachiator
I hear you. I may visit a few threads, but I intend to more or less ignore the media, projections, exit polls, the whole mess until Wednesday morning.
I heard a clip in which Senator Clinton ramps up the experience rhetoric from the standard “35 years of experience” to “a lifetime of experience.”
Apparently, Senator Clinton has been ready from Diaper One.
Some of the most recent polling indicates that Senator Clinton may take Ohio. Gail Collins lean toward Clinton, but I think she makes good points in her Feb 28 NY Times op ed piece when she suggests that the political temperament of Ohio voters may lead them to prefer Senator Clinton to Senator Obama: Hillary, Buckeye Girl
Texas is a bit of a wild card. The state is so large that various regions have interests that are at odds with other parts of the state. There are ethnic conflicts that influence voter preferences despite any calls for party unity, or even enlightened self-interest, let alone any desire to defeat the Republicans in the general election.
Some late February polling indicated that Rhode Island might also lean toward Clinton: Rhode Island: Clinton 53% Obama 38% (Rasmussen Reports). Vermont appears to be leaning toward Obama, but I am not sure that either candidate did any campaigning there or intend to stop off there. Depending instead on media ads might be good overall strategy, but bad state tactics.
If Senator Clinton does well in the Tuesday primaries, no matter what the margin, she can reasonably claim that the voters have spoken, that she has blunted Obama’s momentum, and that she deserves to fight on. This would be the case even if, as some current reports indicate, the GOP would greatly prefer that Clinton be the Democratic Party nominee, and even if they are encouraging Republicans to vote for her in open primaries. If she does well in a majority of the “large” states, her victories would be meaningful and attention must be paid.
Zuzu
Just saw Hillary on Jon Stewart, via satellite from Austin.
Maybe it was unflattering lighting or makeup, but she looked dreadful. Puffy, tight smile, stringy hair, exhaustion on every feature. ‘Course she said she’d been greeting factory workers in Ohio at 5 am this morning, so that would explain a little.
Still, once they got going she was articulate, engaged, and actually pretty funny.
Brachiator
Actually, Clinton’s appearance indicates that she is finally playing to her strengths. By looking “dreadful,” she is showing how hard she is willing to work. She has had public appearances in restaurants and at factories. This kind of thing probably resonates big time in Ohio and (looking ahead) Pennsylvania.
Anyone who has put in long, hard hours, can instantly relate to how Senator Clinton might look. And that she can then go on to be articulate and funny just seals the deal. Her appearance transforms her campaign promise to work hard into something tangible. Anyone who under-estimates the impact this has on potential voters is missing the big picture, and a potential comeback worthy of the master, Bill Clinton.
As an aside, I note that this image of Senator Clinton working hard resonates less in parts of Texas where working smarter, with a minimum of wasted effort, is more important that just working hard.
If Obama has not been rolling up his sleeves and mixing with workers, Senator Clinton may have finally outsmarted him.
Zuzu
Well, yeah, but I’m not sure how much people think about why a candidate doesn’t look good.
Johnny Pez
Except for that whole “United States Senate” thing.
Beej
Anybody read Glenzilla today? Great, scary stuff. The guy has nailed it cold.
Brachiator
They don’t. They see someone who looks like they would look after pulling a double shift. People who have not worked in a factory, or not have had to work an extra shift would not understand. There are tons of people in Ohio who feel this in their bones.
Zuzu
Well, she was in Texas at that point. But who knows, maybe they saw the same thing … she was certainly among supporters.
wobbly
This country went right off the rails when Nixon debated Kennedy and the “five o’clock shadow” on Nixon’s face lost it.
Huh?
It all about what they look like? On the TV?
Rarely Posts
I had to give up reading Sullivan. For awhile I just scrolled past his posts on Hillary, but even still his headlines entered my psyche. What really got to me were his posts pointing out what he saw as her anti-feminism. For some reason the fact that she is herself is bad for feminism. I concluded he didn’t understand the concept. Several emails pointing out to him that me telling him how gays should act were ignored.
I appreciate the fact that while Mr. Cole teeters on the edge of CDS he still manages to be rational.
zzyzx
I’ll give Clinton some credit here. She knew when the election was and timed her dirt throwing for maximum advantage. I think she wins Texas now too.
In the light (well in a few hours) of the morning, I’m having a harder time seeing how she sustains this over the 6 weeks between now and Pennsylvania, barring a huge scandal in Obamaland. She’d be considered more of a front runner which means she couldn’t still attack and attack all the time. But that Clinton for you; why worry about tomorrow when there’s a fight to win today?
Limbaugh's Pilonidal Cyst
I really am looking froward to a Clinton free era.
Amen, Brother John, amen.
And apropos of absolutely nothing, John Kerry for AG (for President Obama)
demimondian
By the way, Brachiator, that’s a really good summary of the state of play.
It all hangs on Texzs — if she wins there, I think she can go on, if not, she should Just Get Out.
jcricket
I feel exactly this way, and I’m a Clinton supporter. If she loses either/both OH and TX, she needs to get out. Not only is the math impossible, there’s just no argument for continuing except the Huckabee thorn-in-the-side style argument. And Clinton cannot play that role – it’s not who she is in the party (Edwards or Kucinich could argue that).
If she wins both, she’s gonna continue (regardless of the delegate math), and it will be a furious spin battle through Pennsylvania.
I hope Obama supporters recognize that although Clinton is behind, it’s not like 0% of the people have voted for her. She’s a hell of a lot closer to Obama than Huckabee is to McCain. She has a lot of supporters and a lot of voters.
So just as it is ridiculous for Clinton to dismiss the results in various states because of various reasons, it is ridiculous for Obama supporters to dismiss all of Hillary’s wins, her popular vote tallys and the delegates (pledged and super) that she’s managed to win.