This is what these asshats want-, and I am damn surprised that finally someone fought back. And guess who it was- the left’s favorite member of the administration. Rep. Brown looked like he was about to cry when Powell shot back at him. Here is the exchange, and I highly recommend watching it if you have not:
Powell fielded the assertions calmly, defending the president’s judgment and his own.
But when Brown contrasted Powell’s military experience to Bush’s record with the National Guard, saying the president “may have been AWOL” from duty, Powell exploded.
“First of all, Mr. Brown, I won’t dignify your comments about the president because you don’t know what you are talking about,” Powell snapped.
“I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean, Mr. Secretary,” Brown replied.
“You made reference to the president,” Powell shot back.
Brown then repeated his understanding that Bush may have been AWOL from guard duty.
“Mr. Brown, let’s not go there,” Powell retorted. “Let’s not go there in this hearing. If you want to have a political fight on this matter, that is very controversial, and I think it is being dealt with by the White House, fine, but let’s not go there.”
The political hack tried to get a cheap shot about Bush in the Congressional Record, and Powell handed him his ass. Watch the video- look at the expression on Brown’sface. Like the rest of the lying, loudmouthed truth bullies, he backed down at the first sign of a fight. Loser Democrats- can’t win on the issues, so they sink to this shit. Theythought they finally had an issue with this tawdry smear campaign, and all they have done is get my dander up. Fools brought another knife to a gunfight.
BTW- I can’t wait for Kerry’s voting record to come out. Should be fun watching him squirm.
Charlie (Colorado)
John, the link to the Brown exchange is busted.
Charlie (Colorado)
HAH! Just saw it on Fox News. Powell’s knuckles got white.
Which is no small trick, when you think of it.
Powell was really angry.
Jane
ah, the voice of sanity.
Mike
Except Brown may not have been wrong. All the documents the White House released are from the Texas Guard. Bush has been claiming all along that he completed his missed drills in Alabama: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59151-2000Jun25¬Found=true
Unless you want to argue Bush could have been in 2 places at once, the issue won’t be settled until some evidence turns up that he showed up for drills in Alabama.
Charlie (Colorado)
No, Mike. First of all, he couldn’t be AWOL because you can’t be AWOL in the Guard. Second, if you’d been keeping up you’d know that Bush’s girlfriend in Alabama has been interviewed and remembers him well (and in any case, BGEN Turnipseed says the Boston Globe misquoted him to start with).
Ah, hell, why bother? Look, if you are in any way open to argument, go read Bill Hobb’s site for the information you need. It’s all there.
Mike
Charlie, your link to Bill Hobb’s site was gratuitous. Hobb’s says Turnipseed’s memory shouldn’t be a factor. Big deal — neither the Brown quote nor I have referred to Turnipseed.
Bush said he made up his missed drills in Alabama, and none of the documents the White House released confirm that. Looks like he didn’t show up, and frankly the word of a man who expressed certainty of weapons of mass destruction in the State of the Union address — when his own CIA was telling him they weren’t certain — shouldn’t be taken at face value.
I’ve never been on a military base where they keep bleechers for the soldier’s girlfriends to watch them drill. I don’t see the White House touting out the girlfriend’s witness as any kind of proof.
Maybe Powell got mad because Brown struck a nerve.
Jay
neither the Brown quote nor I have referred to Turnipseed.
The new meme: “It doesn’t matter what Turnipseed says now.”
But it surely mattered before.
expressed certainty of weapons of mass destruction in the State of the Union address — when his own CIA was telling him they weren’t certain
Huh? Did you actually see George Tenet’s speech or read the transcripts? Apparently not.
And now that a witness has stepped forward, THAT doesn’t matter either.
Christ, you people are freaking pathetic.
PATHETIC.
Terry
I think we at long last know what the face of true pond scum looks like….and it’s found in the likes of Congressman Brown, atrios, Hesiod and all of these other shitheads. I don’t believe they even deserve to be acknowledged anymore as reasoning is wholly beyond their fervid and limited intellectual capabilities.
Mike
You need to bring those issues up with someone who’s been going by what Turnipseed said. I’m sorry I couldn’t make it convenient for you by previously doing so.
And as far as I know, girlfriend’s are allowed to watch drills. Reserve families don’t live on base like active duty families do. If Bush told her he attended drills, that’s still hearsay.
And I didn’t go by Tenet’s speech — the CIA and IAEA expressed doubts at the same time in 2003 before the invasion about the certainty of Iraq trying to purchase uranium in president’s state of the union.
Mike
That should say “And as far as I know, girlfriend’s aren’t allowed to watch drills.”
Peter
You people are scary. Straight outta Ann Coulterville. Seriously.
Are you guys going to issue an apology when find out that Bush crashed a plane when he was all coked up? Just curious…
Powell’s just upset b/c his once-bright dress now has a nonremovable stain on it. It’s that nasty stuff that not even Tide can wash away…Iraqnophobia I think they call it.
Armchair Pundit
Colin Powell was so angered by Sherrods Browns remark because they were sheer politics.
There Powell was, giving a speech on one of the most important issues of our day, and Brown brings in partisan rhetoric. Powell must have realized at that point that he was wasting his time with a bunch of closeminded fools.
And, yes Peter, I’m a Coultist, and I’m going to abolish your taxes and eat your children…(insert evil Republican laugh here).
Jason
As someone who has been solidly on the fence about who to vote for in November, I’d like to thank John Kerry, Terry McAuliffe and the Atrios acolytes of the blogosphere for helping me reconsider my vote.
I’m concerned about Bush’s overspending, civil liberties missteps and and tactical mistakes made in the War on Terror (which includes Iraq). But the more I hear the Dems yammering on with their Torquemada-like crap about Bush’s service to the National Guard… something that occurred over 30 years ago… the more I think that the President is deserving of 4 more years just based on the sheer idiocy of the Democratic Party. ‘Anybody But Bush’ may be a nice slogan at DNC headquarters, but I don’t see it resonating with the general electorate. It’s time for the Dems to come up with actual reasons to vote for them, instead of this shrill ‘Bush molests collies’ tack they’ve been pursuing.
It’s 2004, kids. Most voters are looking for actual grownups to lead the country. I’m not seeing grownup leadership coming from the Dems.
That’s the sad part… I’ve reached the point where I think divided government is a necessity (both in this current climate and with this current President). But it looks more and more like the Dems aren’t finished with their self-destructive tantrum. Hopefully they’ll regain their sanity and give us actual, legitimate reasons to support them by 2008.
M. Scott Eiland
So, how long before the usual suspects haul out the “Stepin Fetchit,” “house n*****”, and “Uncle Tom” slurs in retaliation for Mr. Powell spanking one of their thugs in public?
Slartibartfast
“You people are scary.”
Why, thank you.
“Straight outta Ann Coulterville.”
Never been there, although I hear it’s pretty.
“Seriously.”
Jesus, I hope not.
“Are you guys going to issue an apology when find out that Bush crashed a plane when he was all coked up?”
Apologize for what? No, I think we’d promptly turn our collective backs on the CIC, hold our noses and vote for anyone else. I, for one, have nothing to apologize for. Even if there actually is something there to find, it doesn’t change the fact that a good chunk of the Left has behaved in a decidedly intellectually lobotomized fashion, and will continue to earn my scorn. Stupidity is stupidity, even with a cause.
Gregory Litchfield
I wished I lived in Coulterville. I bet I could finally get a date. Do you know how hard it is to meet 20-something Republican women in DC?
Mike
Yes, but the White House covering up the truth isn’t happening 30 years ago. It’s happening right now.
The more I hear about people not liking Bush but disliking his critics enough to vote for him, the more I’m inclined to believe conservatives are simply showing up in blog comments and misrepresenting their lack of the basic sense to speak in their own self-interest — like I’m witnessing a prostitute knife some guy for trying to stop her pimp from beating her.
Charlie (Colorado)
No, Mike, sorry, thanks for playing.
You should look at Hobbs’ site — which was not gratuitously linked — because it collects applicable information refuting every one of the points you make.
Well, except for the one about the girlfriend not being allowed to watch drills. That one’s just stupid. You’re proposing that in the face of military records showing that he performed the appropriate drill, witnesses who saw him in Alabama to perform the drills, and the absolute insistence of the one person who has been quoted to suggest Bush was absent that he was misquoted, you still are holding out that Bush didn’t do the drills because you can’t find someone you find credible to say they recall an officer from another unit who showed up for a total of about six days thirty two years ago.
Hell, they’ve even found his dental records from a dental checkup on base.
It’s just nuts. Nuts. Deranged. We heard that the pay records would prove it. Got the pay records. Nope.
Wanted a witness. Got the witness. Nope.
Found out the original isssue was raissed based on an apparently malicious misquote. Nope.
Nuts.
Chris
Back in the day, if a staffer pulled this kinda shit, he would be packing his box and out the door by Noon:
“But the dispute with Brown did not end.
“Are you shaking your head for something, young man?,” Powell asked when he noticed an aide to Brown apparently disagreeing.
“I seldom come to a meeting when I’m talking to a congressman and I have people aligned behind you giving editorial comment by headshakes,” Powell said.
Brown, defending his assistant, said “I think people have opinions.”
If a staffer showed up a cabinet secretary at a hearing, he would be burnt toast. And he’d never work in DC again, that’s just fucking outrageous, but I guess par for the D team right now.
Cheerio
shark
Tsk tsk…instead of bashing Bush over National Guard, the looney left has to gear up to defend yet another intern diddler. Looks like Kerry is going to be finished. Prove he didn’t have an affair? To the same standards you want to hold Bush to, looney left.
You’re screwed.
You want to play? You’re about to be played out…
Paul
Is there a link to this footage? I’d love to see it.
rkb
Mike, there have been dozens of comments by experienced national guardsmen and reservists on the question of records.
Bush was in the Guard. The Guard pay him and keep his time cards etc.
He was authorized to drill with reservists in Alabama while on *approved* relocation there to work on a campaign.
The rules in the military are: guardsmen have to put in drill time, there is a lot of flexibility as to how that happens and the originating unit (the Texas ANG in this case) gets notified that hours were pulled.
They input the info and he gets credit for drills and paid.
The records released show those credits and authorize him pay.
It really, really is that straight forward.
Mike
You need to bring these issues up with someone who relied on them. I never mentioned lack of pay stubs, Texas Guard or otherwise, or witnesses.
Since you’ve brought up witnesses, however:
Slartibartfast
Oh, perfect. First we have someone who doesn’t remember seeing him. Then we have someone who definitely remembers not seeing him.
Is this an attempt to maximize irrelevance, while staying approximately on-topic?
Charlie (Colorado)
So now we know that Bush snuck on base to get his teeth examined, and filled in his attendance records, and saw his girlfriend, but didn’t actually show up.
It’s like I said: deranged. Nuts.
Oh, Mike, PS: It’s not all about you. Thought you should know.
Mike
Well, that’s what you get from bringing up witnesses.
I haven’t seen any attendance records, and I don’t think you have either, Charlie. How’s that for nuts?
Slartibartfast
“Well, that’s what you get from bringing up witnesses.”
That would’ve been a swell counterpoint, had I actually brought up witnesses.
Jeff Dickerman
Question for you Mike: What is YOUR military background? For that matter, what is Congressman Sherrod Brown’s military background? He was 18 years old in 1970. Our country was at war. Did he serve? Or was he AWOL?
Mike
I did 4 years active duty in the air force.
If you’re talking about politician military histories, the New Hampshire Gazette points out that as far as Republicans serving, Bob Dole and John McCain are the exception rather than the rule:
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks
Most legislators who accepted military responsibility are Democrats.
Since you asked about military service.
That calpundit guy posted an AP story on one witness who saw Bush on base in Alabama. I’m hoping John will make an obnoxious post on this, since it’s after those kinds of posts when news flabbergasting the president tends to crop up.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/ny-bush0214,0,2910354.story
Jeff Dickerman
Mike – thanks for the tip on the New Hampshire Gazette. Apparently, any reader can nominate anyone into the “Chickenhawk Database” so I nominated Sherrod Brown. Honestly I don’t know his military history and am curious. The New Hampshire Gazette is a wee bit left of center so you might assume the nominations are likely from typical readers with a certain liberal point of view. The “Database” is therefore neither significant nor relevant here. I’m not sure I accept your statement that “Most legislators who accepted military responsibility are Democrats” unless you can back it up with some real data.
Still curious about Brown’s record though.
Mike
If you can demonstrate Brown pushed for war — like Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Tom Delay, Rush Limbaugh, all of whom also avoided the draft — then he may very well qualify.
There’s a summary at awolbush.com of major players who served and who didn’t serve: http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html — you are welcome to investigate further.
By the way, Jeff, I’m glad you could pull yourself from your military responsibilities in Iraq to respond to my posts. Well, I assume that’s where you’re posting from. I’d hate to think your sad attempt to bust me on my military history was made from the safety of your own home.
Corey
“I did 4 years active duty in the air force.”
Well, Mike, I’ve served 10 years active duty in the Air Force and three (and counting) in the AF Reserves, and I’ll tell you this: you know exactly Jack Shit about Guard/Reserve duty. I know this, because starting all over in the Reserves was like reliving my first assignment as a Butterbar. Most active duty folks don’t know the ins and outs of the non-active duty life, and you’re obviously one of them. You’re demanding sign-in sheets now as proof of GWB’s weekend drills? What fucking sign-in sheets? There ain’t no such thing if you’re not on orders. I have yet to do a weekend drill where I had to “sign in,” except in the case of performing my yearly AT. The only real record of attendance for weekend drill would be….get this….are you ready? PAY STUBS!!!!! You asked for them, you got them, and didn’t like the answer you got. When on Earth will it be enough for you people?
Corey
“I haven’t seen any attendance records, and I don’t think you have either, Charlie. How’s that for nuts?”
I’m sorry, I misquoted you by saying “sign-in sheets” when you meant attendance records. Same thing, but I’m a stickler. My point still stands. Pay stubs are the only real record of weekend drill attendance, ESPECIALLY after 30+ years.
Corey
So, for all the Dems and tinfoil hat liberals out there:
With GWB releasing everything (after having to have the records excavated and recreated from the archives in Denver), you can’t say he was AWOL after swearing up and down he was, you can’t say he’s hiding anything by only releasing “select” records, you can’t say there were no witnesses to his attendance when they’re coming out of the woodwork, you can’t rely on selected misquotes from the Boston Globe or a disgruntled former officer who is now backing down from yesterday’s claim, My question is: How does it feel to know Rove Rope-a-Doped you worse than Ali. Feeling like Foreman yet?
Mike
You were an active duty officer — and you got out after 10 years?
So — why were you pressured to leave when you were well past half-way to receiving retirement benefits?
After my first post here, I’ve just been replying to posts directed at me.
Maybe you just have a problem with that because you only know how to play a fixed game, Corey, Corey, Corey.
Corey
“why were you pressured to leave when you were well past half-way to receiving retirement benefits?”
Again, if you knew fuck-all about the Reserves, of which I’m STILL ACTIVE in, you might understand that Reserve time counts toward active duty retirement, so your whole ad hominem is pretty much bye-bye. It is a very common practice to go from active duty to reserve…STRATCOM is packed with former active duty reservists. I got out at the 9year and 3month point. My reasons are my own, rest assured, my bosses didn’t want me to get out, and I’m still on excellent terms with the Air Force.
But this is typical of just about every anti-Bushie; proof, evidence and facts destroy your Bush attack, so you turn it around on the fact-checkers.
“Maybe you just have a problem with that because you only know how to play a fixed game, Corey, Corey, Corey.”
Excuse me , but what in THE hell are you talking about? Again, you’re argument is pretty much shot to hell, by your own rules I might add–Evidence that Bush wasn’t AWOL is coming out of the woodwork, you lefty/dems are getting every bit of evidence you’ve been beggin for only to have it blow up in yer collcetive ugly mug–and you pull a sentence like that out of your ass. Mike Mike Mike
Not that it really is pertinent to this whole thing, but where were you stationed? What was your AFSC?
Corey
And since you made the leap from me changing from activ duty to the reserves as “being pressured to get out”, I feel it necessary to ask you:
Why were you Article 15’d, court martialed and then kicked out after only fours when the Air Force bends over backwards to hang on to first-termers like yourself? I mean, fair’s fair, right? You had to have been a real shitball to have felt compelled to leave after a mere four years.
How’s it feel?
Mike
Yeah, I asked a simple question, Corey, Corey. Your inability to reply without the “fuck-all” — well, it does just that, displays your inability.
Yeah, counts for — not equivalent to. When you parade your military history the way you did, my question is reasonable.
Your problems with the truth are so embedded, you don’t even realize that my question was a valid question.
You were an active-duty officer half-way to retirement, and now you are not. My question was “why were you pressured to leave when you were well past half-way to receiving retirement benefits?” — active duty retirement benefits.
Charlie (Colorado)
Mike, you don’t have to be pressured to leave to decide you want something else.
So, did you leave after four because you wouldn’t stop beating your wife?
Mike
That wasn’t me beating up my wife. That was your wife beating up Shaquille O’Neall — she’s a big girl, you know…
Mike
…at least I think that was your wife. I can’t be sure without hearing her say, “Mike, thank you for that rare orgasm,” since that was the last thing your wife said to me.
Jeff Dickerman
“By the way, Jeff, I’m glad you could pull yourself from your military responsibilities in Iraq to respond to my posts. Well, I assume that’s where you’re posting from. I’d hate to think your sad attempt to bust me on my military history was made from the safety of your own home.”
Yes, I’m responding from the safety of my own home, feeling safe and secure that our Commander in Chief, President Bush, is making the right decisions so that I can keep that home safe.
Mike, I’m sorry you’re getting personally attacked since that was not my intent. I just want to know if Rep. Brown has any military background since he feels it’s o.k. to attack President Bush’s background. Still don’t have any answer to that question yet. BTW, I served four years in the Marine Corps many years ago. And by Sherrod Brown’s measure my Honorable Discharge means nothing, nor yours.
Steve Malynn
Sherrod Brown never served.
Corey
Mike Mike (since you like repeating names so much),
I repeat, you know nothing about the guard and reserve. Yes, reserve time counts the same toward active duty retirement. At my current rate of service, I’m scheduled to retire on the same date I would’ve had I stayed on active duty. With the same benefits.
I gave you an honest answer to your question, didn’t you like it, or did it just not fit well into your vision of the way things ought to be?
“Yeah, I asked a simple question, Corey, Corey. Your inability to reply without the “fuck-all” — well, it does just that, displays your inability.
My inability, eh? I gave you a straightforward explanation and that’s still not good enough for you.
“Your problems with the truth are so embedded, you don’t even realize that my question was a valid question.”
MY problems? Did you even READ all of my post?
“When you parade your military history the way you did, my question is reasonable.”
I wasn’t “parading” a damn thing. I’m very proud of my CONTINUING service. By the way, I believe you opened that can of worms.
“You were an active-duty officer half-way to retirement, and now you are not.”
Excuse me, yes I am; an to be technical with my Reserve time, I’m now seven years away from retirement and FULL benefits.
And to answer for the LAST time, I wasn’t pressured to leave. Had you bothered to read my entire post, you would’ve noticed the opposite was true, that my bosses tried to keep me on active duty. There was no pressure for me to leave.
By the way, why haven’t you answered any of my questions? Looking through the AF Almanac for a list of possible duty stations and the list of AFSC’s?
Charlie (Colorado)
I see you’re as insightful and quick-witted as ever.
Charlie (Colorado)
The problem is that both his attendance records and pay records have been available for a while. (The people who keep complaining those aren’t “real” attendance records are grasping at straws: those lines in his records are all the “attendance records” anyone has.)
Conveniently, USA today hass put them all up on their web site. I believe what you’re looking for are the records in this PDF file. starting around page 10 You might want to look at the rest of the records on this page as well.
Careful reading of those records by someone who troubles to learn the way the records are kept will answer a lot of other questions, eg, the calumny about Bush being “immediately promoted”. In fact, after 3+ months as an EM, and did basic training; then Bush went before a board for selection to pilot school, and at the same time was promoted to 2LT USAFR (as is appropriate to anyone who is being sent to flight school in the Guard.)
You’d also find that he was reviewed multiple times as an “exceptionally fine” officer, top 10 percent among his peers, and that he accumulated enough service (“retirement”) points to have fully completed his obligation. In other words, the only “early out” he got was being allowed to be immediately discharged, instead of moving to “inactive reserve” status after completing his term of service.
Mike
What are you talking about? You just answered my question, and asked in the very same post why I didn’t like your answer. Again, we’re seeing a pattern where you seem to like your games fixed.
Last time I heard, benefits were salary-based. Reserve military doesn’t make as much as active-duty. You were an active-duty officer half-way to retirement — so you weren’t exactly making chicken feed — and now you are not. Why stop when you were halfway there?
In any event, Corey, the government isn’t getting very much from you for it’s money. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.
Jeff, you should consider this an example of how that protection you mentioned enjoying gets selectively enforced.
Shoshana Johnson puts up the fight that Jessica Lynch gets credit for — even though she was knocked out. If you conform to the Republican Party ideal, you get jewelry from Diane Sawyer and a book and movie deal. If you don’t, you get told you live in a free market, and you have the privilege of investing your savings in companies that are booking their debts as profits to inflate the value of the company right before company executives cash out.
The saddest part is that the “Daytona dads” don’t realize they will never get even a fraction from Republican status quo what they put in preserving it — because pyramid schemes are structured to benefit the top tiers. It benefits George Bush to appear as much like you as possible, while actually being as different from you as he possibly can.
That’s why I compare watching Republicans defending the president from his critics to watching a prostitute knife some guy for trying to stop her pimp from beating her. If the president isn’t a big boy who can defend himself — how can you rationally expect him to defend you? You can’t — you just get a vacuum hose in your wallet while you get told you live in a free market.
Corey
Mike said: “What are you talking about? You just answered my question,”
Then why do you keep pressing your stupid, unfounded “why were you pressured to leave” B.S.line?
Mike said: “Last time I heard, benefits were salary-based. Reserve military doesn’t make as much as active-duty.”
Really, the last time you “heard?” Well, here’s a newsflash for you: They don’t pay me for the days of the month that I don’t serve, but for the days I do serve, I earn at the SAME rate as if I were active duty, because for the two days (weekend drill) or two weeks (annual drill) I am active duty.
Mike said: “Why stop when you were halfway there?”
Uhhhh, my service is continuing, toward FULL benefits. Give up, already all right? But, then again, perhaps for you, service should be all about the money, and to hell with true service to one’s country. The fact you think I have something to hide meshes perfectly with this whole AWOL issue–you get facts, they blow up in your face and you try to manufacture a scandal–this one being the sinister reason why I was supposedly pressured to leave activce duty, because, you know no one ever leaves active duty to go into the reserve. If I have something to hide (I think I’ve more than proved I don’t), then so does the ENTIRE AF Reserve program–where the vast majority of personnel cross over from Active Duty.
Mike said: “In any event, Corey, the government isn’t getting very much from you for it’s money. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.”
Sorry to have to tell you this Mike, but you just insulted EVERYONE who serves their country in the Guard and Reserve. I would tell you what I really think of you, but I don’t particularly want to be banned from this thread.
Suffice to say, Mike…this whole topic was about Sherrod Brown being a class 1A Blue-ribbon jack-pipe. And somehow you ignored the topic altogether (as well as many facts) and suckered me into having to defend myself (and my service to my country) from your baseless strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks.
It is of note, that you haven’t answered either of my questions about your own service, leading me to believe you really served about as much time in the AF as the Queen of England’s tits have. What say ye? Another personal attack on me oughtta do, huh?
Corey
Mike said: “What are you talking about? You just answered my question,”
Then why do you keep pressing your stupid, unfounded “why were you pressured to leave” B.S.line?
Mike said: “Last time I heard, benefits were salary-based. Reserve military doesn’t make as much as active-duty.”
Really, the last time you “heard?” Well, here’s a newsflash for you: They don’t pay me for the days of the month that I don’t serve, but for the days I do serve, I earn at the SAME rate as if I were active duty, because for the two days (weekend drill) or two weeks (annual drill) I am active duty.
Mike said: “Why stop when you were halfway there?”
Uhhhh, my service is continuing, toward FULL benefits. Give up, already all right? But, then again, perhaps for you, service should be all about the money, and to hell with true service to one’s country. The fact you think I have something to hide meshes perfectly with this whole AWOL issue–you get facts, they blow up in your face and you try to manufacture a scandal–this one being the sinister reason why I was supposedly pressured to leave activce duty, because, you know no one ever leaves active duty to go into the reserve. If I have something to hide (I think I’ve more than proved I don’t), then so does the ENTIRE AF Reserve program–where the vast majority of personnel cross over from Active Duty.
Mike said: “In any event, Corey, the government isn’t getting very much from you for it’s money. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.”
Sorry to have to tell you this Mike, but you just insulted EVERYONE who serves their country in the Guard and Reserve. I would tell you what I really think of you, but I don’t particularly want to be banned from this thread.
Suffice to say, Mike…this whole topic was about Sherrod Brown being a class 1A Blue-ribbon jack-pipe. And somehow you ignored the topic altogether (as well as many facts) and suckered me into having to defend myself (and my service to my country) from your baseless strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks.
It is of note, that you haven’t answered either of my questions about your own service, leading me to believe you really served about as much time in the AF as the Queen of England’s tits have. What say ye? Another personal attack on me oughtta do, huh?
Mike
Yeah, the rate is the same, but not the quantity. You’ve just confimed you will be getting less than if you stayed in full active duty.
If you didn’t like your games fixed so much, I wouldn’t have so many follow up questions to clear up your attempts to confuse everyone else here.
Of course, this returns us to why you were pressured out of active duty when you were past the half-way point to retirement — buuut somehow, Corey, your demeanor now leaves less to the imagination as to how the government benefits from moving you to reserve pay.
I’m just replying to questions directed to me, like yours, Corey. Asking them and expecting me not to answer them — that’s part of your pattern of enjoying a fixed game.
Unlike you, my first post here was on topic. Your first post was bragging about making it half-way to retirement, then moving on to reserve pay. Your first comment on Brown was the one I just quoted above.
Uh-oh, Corey has pinned me for dodging questions so devastatingly important — he can’t even remember what they were to ask them again.
Does anyone else know remember what they are?
Charlie (Colorado)
Mike, I realize that you aren’t really interested in anything but counting coup, but here’s a clue: I’m about to interview for a job with the Navy (as a scientist) for which I’ll expect around $130K.
If I’d enlisted in the Navy and made O-6 (Captain) — which is where I’d have to be at my age, or I’d have already been retired because of the up-or-out policy — I’d make between $90K and $110K.
AAnd I would have moved about every second year (best case) and I wouldn’t get to choose my own clothes.
If I’d have done what Corey did, I’m be making, oh, say $140K and still be on my way to Navy retirement with benefits, and probably be more likely to complete my service at flag rank — which means even more money.
Corey
“Does anyone else know remember what they are?”
Well, I suppose they could scroll back up, huh? Maybe your mouse doesn’t do that, or how about your “Page Up” button on your keyboard, since you’re still dodging my questions.
“this returns us to why you were pressured out of active duty when you were past the half-way point to retirement ”
How many times do I have to tell you that I wasn’t pressured to leave? I’m still in the Air Force. And what exactly is “reduced quality” (since you’ve given up on the ‘reduced pay’ angle)? My time counts exactly the same towards retirement.
Let me ask you, what do you mean by fixed game? Makes no sense to me. Is that code for something? I thought I’ve been pretty straightforward.
“I’m just replying to questions directed to me, like yours”
You have yet to reply to any of my questions, you just keep coming after me with some B.S. that I was pressured to leave. Well, I’m very glad for your concern vis a vis my retirement benefits, but I’ll be ok.
“Unlike you, my first post here was on topic. Your first post was bragging about making it half-way to retirement, then moving on to reserve pay”
Actually, I wasn’t braggin–remeber, you opened that can with your “4 years active duty in the Air Force” which you have yet to prove. Why are you lying? What do you have to hide?
Well, this is a perfect example of the “Bush – AWOL” argument in a nutshell. People who offer facts, rebuttals or practical experience are attacked in order for people like Mike hang on to their theories (Bush was AWOL, cuz that’s all we have!”) Well, Mike, you win; I’m tired of explaining to you the way the reserves work. You’re right I’m wrong and apparently since I am now a reservist, I’m a lesser person, because no one would ever do that volutarily (apparently). I’ve learned my lesson–don’t argue with an idiot. You can keep posting Mike, I won’t be back because you’re a lost cause.
Mike
All my posts quoting you have been replying to your questions.
As that is the case, Corey, I can only reply that I have no defense against what can only be described as your willful stupidity.
“4 years active duty in the Air Force” was an answer to another person’s question — which of course offends you because you like your games fixed so much, you don’t want any replies to your insults at all.
Like George W Bush, Charlie, you seek to appear like the troops you claim to support as much possible, while actually being as different from them as you can get away with — benefitting from Bush’s deficit spending to the tune of a $130k salary.
Yeah, would’ve, could’ve… didn’t.
For you “Daytona dads” reading this, Charlie is not like a prostitute knifing a guy for stopping her pimp from beating her — he is simply protecting a status quo that harvests your life savings from record-breaking deficit-spending, so he can live off the public tit.
But boy does he sure appreciate your support in reelecting the president!
Corey
Hehehe….you’re fun to watch Mike. I mentioned my time on active duty to frame my initial posting, and somehow you saw someone who was more of an expert than you, you got defensive and immediatly attacked me.
My willful stupidity huh? I believe my questions had to do with where you were stationed and what your AFSC was. Still unanswered, but then again, “Corey’s stupid” is generally acceptable as answer for folks with no debating skills.
Oh well, it’s all just a “fixed game” isn’t it? Whatever the hell that means.
Mike
I simply asked you why you were no longer active duty, having passed the halfway point to retirement.
You were so proud of your military service, making it the first thing anyone here knew about you, I was simply curious as to the basis for that pride.
Of course, as I demonstated in my last post, there’s no defense against your willful stupidity — claiming I hadn’t addressed any of your questions, when every post I quoted you was obviously replying to something you said — so it isn’t hard to imagine the reasons you left active duty past halfway to retirement are unsavory ones.
“You believe?” Maybe if you and Charlie hadn’t buried your own devastatingly important questions with multiple posts, you would have remembered them enough to repeat them as you persisted in holding me responsible for answering them. (Don’t feel your desparation was showing, Corey — even though it was.)
I was stationed at US StratCom at Offutt AFB outside of Omaha. I was on the team to install GCCS to replace the old WWMCCS system. It took me a year to navigate the military jargon to figure out the records maintained in those databases were “big moves of cargo and non-cargo” (ie people).