Today’s Quote of the Day:
It’s not about the fact that the mainstream media makes mistakes
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
I did not have telepathic declassification on my 2022 bingo card.
Peak wingnut was a lie.
No one could have predicted…
Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?
Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.
JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
You cannot shame the shameless.
Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.
Black Jesus loves a paper trail.
Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.
It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.
Consistently wrong since 2002
Let’s not be the monsters we hate.
Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.
Optimism opens the door to great things.
A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.
Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.
The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.
Accountability, motherfuckers.
All your base are belong to Tunch.
Not all heroes wear capes.
🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵
I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.
Brennan Griffin
Man, get off it. You’ve got a host of right wing talk show hosts spinning as hard as they can for the conservative movement. You’ve got FOX News, run by a Republican operative, and you’ve got the WSJ, and a host of smaller city papers.
The major networks have nothing like the spin that these operations add up to. I’ve heard a couple of stuff that you could write off as liberal bias, but what is John Stossel on ABC? Are you going to try to tell me he doesn’t have a right-wing spin?
Give it a rest already. Rather and company wanted a scoop so bad they could taste it, and didn’t check closely enough so that they could be the first to play. It wasn’t liberal bias, it was scoop driven, bad reporting.
Brennan
Glen
I vote with Brennan. The only giggling I do these days is when I see conservatives claim that they are persecuted.
I have similar giggles when I see folk like Falwell and Robertson claim that Christians are persecuted in America.
Ricky
Yep, I’ll say it again: It’s such a shame that one cable channel, two editorial pages and talk radio have kept the left from getting out their message.
Sav
“The major networks have nothing like the spin that these operations add up to.”
I’ve gone from a giggle to full blown howling.
John Cole
Wow- so hostile they can’t even figure outwhat I am laughing at.
I am laughing at the fact that Republicans do’t have a ‘persecution complex’- that would imply they FALSELY believe the media is anti-conservative, when that is an accurate belief.
Second, if there is a political party which whose foundation is that of victim status and the never-ending belief in apersecution complex, I would suggest that it weould be the Democratic party.
Nick
“You’ve got a host of right wing talk show hosts spinning as hard as they can for the conservative movement”
Yeah, except the difference is that none of these guys claim to be objective news outlets. People who listen to Rush and Hannity KNOW that they are getting analysis- not news. For the millionth time- will you libs PLEASE stop making this stupid red herring of an argument?
GR
Yeah, John, I agree. The Left blaming the Conservatives for having a persecution complex is rich.
The Left is nothing more than a consortium of ‘victim’ groups each clamoring for their slice of the government pie.
The constant comaparison of the right to oppressive fascists or the like is a dead giveaway.
Angus Jung
“Rather and company wanted a scoop so bad they could taste it, and didn’t check closely enough so that they could be the first to play. It wasn’t liberal bias, it was scoop driven, bad reporting.”
So what’s the stonewalling about? Are they scared of hurting Dan’s feelings?
Ken Hahn
The left will never admit the bias. They want so much to believe that their opinions are facts. Sorry Brennan, it’s not a scoop Rather wanted, it was a smear. No one at CBS or at the cocktail parties disagreed so it was okay to lie. The liberal media continues to generate the alternative media because it is no longer believable.
Dorian
Brian
Awww…Poor Kevin Drum. I don;t seen to remember him complaining about the NY Times running 47 front page stories on a few Iraqi scumbags having underwear placed on their hands.
Or, I could have said this:
Me: “Drum, you are full of shit.”
Drum: “That’s not issue here. It’s the allegation that is the issue. Just because it isn’t tre doesn’t mean it isn’t true.”
S.W. Anderson
I would put it this way:
. . . it’s about keeping alive the persecution myth so central to American conservatism: that the liberal media are corrupt and malign, intent on casting conservative politicians and their preferences in an unfavorable light.
The Washington Monthly writer is quite right about there being a myth. It’s a defining, core belief for conservatives, even though it’s closing on being 20 years out of date.
Oh well, it sells books and gets airtime for Bernie Goldberg.
This kind of thing isn’t unprecedented. Fifty years or more after Lee surrendered at Appomattox, there were people in the South holding onto a stash of Confederate currency, in case the South were to rise again.
Francis W. Porretto
Note that when conservatives demand to know why terrorists and violent racial, ethnic and religious groups get kid-glove treatment from the Old Media, liberals accuse them of “blaming the victim,” obviously a heinous offense. But blaming the victim is perfectly okay with liberals when the victims are dispreferred groups such as white males, Christians, and political conservatives.
Double standards abound.
Patrick
It’s only because of those handful of talk show hosts and Fox News that a conservative viewpoint is in the market to measure against the leftslant of the mainstream media. The media natural order of things is leftward, so even centrist appears conservative. A lie repeated often enough…
CadillaqJaq
The died-in-the-wool southern Confederate supporters may have been guilty of “holding on” to bogus dollars, but what isn’t bogus about CBS/Dan Rather’s recent obsession? Before that the AP’s resorting to calling “ahhhs” “boos,” and the daily Abu Graib coverage for weeks on end by the NYT? What are they “holding on” to?
IMO, the vast liberal media, it’s internet spin-offs, and the extremist Dem pols haven’t recovered from the mid-terms of 1994 and each year their hatred goes up a click.
FOX TV is one voice, and being a cable entity, a small voice compared to national network media’s followers. Give it a rest and admit the left based media IS biased. Conservative Myth? Piffle.
Jim Valvis
Here’s the thing. Talk Radio, right-leaning blogs, and the WSJ opinion page are openly biased. They admit their conservative leanings. The mainstream press does not admit its bias. Hell, listen to what I just said– mainstream press. It hints at objectivity.
And yet there is none. 60 Minutes has run hit piece after hit piece on the President. They basically turned their program into an infomercial for Bush-bashing books. Other sources, like the NYT, can’t even present a play review without getting a jab in at Bush. And on and on.
The thing is, if you don’t pay much attention, you know damn well that Rush is “a right-wing nut”, but you think the Washington Post and CNN are straight-up journalism. And it’s that deception that bothers conservatives.
The MSM will never confess to its bias because once it does it will have to admit that they haven’t a monopoly on what is true. And then, as people begin to turn the dial and hop online to find out what else is going on, they’re toast– and so is the Democratic Party and far-left liberalism.
I believe that a news source can be objective. I’m not one of those “everyone and everything is biased” people. But if you believe that bias doesn’t exist at the networks and in the major papers, you’re not only wrong, you’re blind.
And yes, Christians are today persecuted, not in a Nero way, but in that they are talked about with open contempt by people who have a soft spot for even rapists, murderers, and tyrants. Everyone deserves and recieves the benefit of the doubt, in this liberal society, except for that 68 year old grandma who’s sending 50 bucks to Pat Robertson in the hopes her grandchildren won’t grow up in a country where pornography and birth-control are easier to get than a Bible and a wall cross. She’s a Christian kook and a Jesus freak and a right-wing fanatic.
Anyway, one thing the libs never mention, is that, if there is no left-leaning bias in the mainstream press, why does it hate so very much the right-leaning media?
Angus Jung
“. . . it’s about keeping alive the persecution myth so central to American conservatism: that the liberal media are corrupt and malign, intent on casting conservative politicians and their preferences in an unfavorable light.”
Well, if it’s a myth, Rather sure isn’t helping to dispel it.
Brennan Griffin
I thought FOX News slogan was “fair and balanced.” I’m glad all of you are admitting its conservative bias.
The arguments about those shows being opinion and everyone knowing it is bogus for two reasons.
One: they work the refs CONSTANTLY by saying this or that is liberal bias, even when its pretty obviously not. I heard one guy complaining that the conservative quote was in the fifth paragraph rather than the third paragraph and calling it liberal bias. This stuff adds up, and newspapers have gotten into the habit of playing it safe whenever possible because of it. They seldom evaluate claims made in quotes, they just repeat them, even when one or the other side is obviously spinning as hard as they can. Also, if all the conservative talk shows are talking about it, the other media will pick it up, even when it involves the kind of bogus stories the Swifties had. (John O’Neill – never been in Cambodia unless he’s talking to Nixon. Larry Thurlow – got my Bronze Star for the same action as Kerry with the same sort of report. The doctor who didn’t sign off on the report and claims he overheard some third hand story about the wound being self-inflicted. These guys have no credibility. Neither do Kitty Kelly or Bill Burkett, by the way, and thats the treatment they’re getting from most outlets.)
Two: A lot of listeners of those shows only listen to those shows for their news and information. You’ll hear callers saying stuff like: I stopped listening to anything else but _____ and Fox News all the time on these shows. And most of you have already admitted Fox News bias.
wild bird
The media telling the truth wow thats a joke they too durn busy lying to tell the truth so why dont the so called journlists just go back to school how about the school of truth WOW THATS REAL FUNNY KRAAW KRAAW KRAAW
Sandi
The arguments about those shows being opinion and everyone knowing it is bogus for two reasons.
*Brennan
Yes Fox News has bias as all news networks do, but not blatent like CBS. I watch several networks for news. Except for CBS they are all somewhat fair and balanced, but some bias will always be there because the person doing the reporting, wether left or right sees him/herself in the center. Yes I think Fox is a little more fair and balanced because they alone put a lot more guests and pundants with opposing views on than other networks or cable news.
The arguments about those shows being opinion and everyone knowing it is bogus for two reasons.
Anyone smarter than a bag of hammers can tell the difference between news commentary and news reporting. The networks share of news views has, and will continue to decline. a) Because people don’t want to sit down at a certain time for their news. b) Because people don’t mind opinions with their news. It is human nature wether liberal or conservative to prefer listening to someone that is more in line with their views for the bulk of the news they hear, wether they want to admit it or not. As long as the bias isn’t blatently walking away from the truth they don’t care. Few (the bags of hammers) will accept what is being reported by their favorite news source at face value, and most will look for confirmation from other sources.
This stuff adds up, and newspapers have gotten into the habit of playing it safe whenever possible because of it.
I sorta agree here, but because they do their reporting shielded from readers behind newsroom walls. They can write whatever they want, but they do not have to interact with anyone with an opposing point of view. They don’t have to take calls from people who disagree with them, they don’t have to read the letters, and they can even cherry-pick which letters, if any, are published as responses.
But this is also true with TV and radio news. Only the blogger is directly accountable to the reader because the reader can respond directly through comments to challenge or uphold the views put forth in a story. The commenter can provide links to uphold, or refute their claims and bias in the story. The blogger has no protection at all from opposing points of view. Of course many of the commenters are idiots that don’t or can’t backup their rants.
In short, a blogger host must face the consequences of his comments and defend them. True the columnist has a editor (or several) that can insist on a correction or retraction, but the editor is also secure behind the newsroom walls. Bloggers in effect have hundreds or even thousands of editors with expertise in just about any field imaginable. What has a newsroom editor have expertise in besides news.
Yes, I count on the bloggers most of all for my news.
Dodd
This is the new “there’s no such thing as liberal bias” meme, Drum is merely the most recent conduit (and he’s rather late to the party) and it always goes more or less the same: Conservatives don’t complain about media bias because it’s real, they do it to intimidate reporters into reporting the news the way they want to.
This remind me of nothing so much as the so-called “Republican mob” that “intimidated” the vote counters in FL in 2000 – the fact that the things we complain about are real – or, in 2000, that the Democrat vote counters’ decision to start conducting their count behind closed doors was illegal – is an ir-relevancy. The real issue – to listen to the lefties – in both cases is Republican “intimidation.”
Slartibartfast
Having demonstrated feats of collective mind-reading of that magnitude, Drum has no excuse at all for not being fabulously wealthy.
Brennan Griffin
Jim Valvis:
I don’t get the Christians are persecuted myth either. I’m an avowed atheist. I don’t broadcast it unless its relevant to the discussion, but its come up a few times. I live in Texas, first in Fort Worth, then San Antonio, and I sure do get a lot more funny looks, people preaching at me, and distrust than the Christians do. I’ve never seen anything looking like discrimination, and I’m pretty sure that a lot of church/state stuff that’s actually against the law as it stands now went on without anyone saying boo. I didn’t say boo, either, cause I don’t really give a darn.
Maybe its different in New York, or LA, but I don’t really think so. I lived in New York for 3 years, and ran across the same thing in most of my everyday life. Maybe some out there Christians are getting funny looks, but I’ll put the funny looks I get against theirs any day of the week.
Bloggerhead
In the vast swathe between the poles of wingnutjob and tinfoilhat, the concept of a liberal media depends wholly upon where you sit. Conservatives perceive the media as just another bastion of the liberal elites (to my mind a vague epithet, especially coming from a republican party chock full of the countryclub set). Liberals view it a just another corporatist tool, where the bottom line is, well, the bottom line.
Kevin’s point is that it has been the right that has created an absolute out of this relativity, and has forged a political weapon so potent that they’re not about to let go of it. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, of course, that the MSM are liberal pawns, e.g., Judith Miller’s shitting all over the front pages of the NYT & the WT’s strange (and strained) obsession with Whitewater. Just read through the archives of John’s new buddy, the Howler, for all the gory details.
To be sure, the media have their biases. Who doesn’t? But these cut across the media’s own broad swathe of reporters, editors & owners, from the ideological to the venal. To assert a monolithic liberal media out of this inherent variability is not giggliable, but laughable.
You see, giggling is usually not associated with truth or meaning. People usually giggle when they’re coyly covering something up or are nervous about getting away with it. For example, I never giggle about the sheer ineptitude of the present administration; I just laugh my ass off (though, admittedly, I used to be disgusted).
Slartibartfast
Which, coincidentally, is why it’s so called. Or maybe not coincidentally; you never know with us sneaky Republicans.
Dodd
Something in that statement is laughable, it’s true.
Robert Crawford
Stereotype much?
russ
Brennan whines cluelessy: “Give it a rest already. Rather and company wanted a scoop so bad they could taste it, and didn’t check closely enough so that they could be the first to play. It wasn’t liberal bias, it was scoop driven, bad reporting”
So I guess libel, slander, and outright sedtious behavior in an attempt to steal an election is no big thing for this obvious supporter of the party of the Sleazy & Seditious…
Then again Kerry is a known seditious swine that only a leftie/liberal could rationalize as worth supporting…
russ
At It IS about investigating the CURRENT allegations that the Democratic National Committee willingly supplied false (forged) documents to a major news outlet (CBS) who all too dutifully reported this as “news” without providing a complete, and accurate accounting of the story, and who didn’t adequately check the authenticity of these documents that leading experts in the private and public sectors (Pentagon) are now saying are forgeries