I agree wholeheartedly with this statement:
No whitewashes. Find out who fucked up. Republicans, Democrats, I don’t care. Anyone who screwed up should be tarred and feathered.
That is in reaction to the news that the Senate will hold investigations later on looking into the events of the past week.
Oh- the person who said it- Kos, which given the blame game going on at Kos the past few days is a touch amusing, but he is right about the investigation.
John S.
Don’t shoot the messenger, John.
Incidentally, I agree 100% with this statement as well. I don’t give a rat’s ass if the people responsible have a “D” or an “R” next to their name.
It is a shame that the Republicans have consolidated so much control in government, because ultimately a large portion of the axe will be falling on their necks – just as it would if the circumstances were identical and Democrats had this much power. Not to sound cliche, but with great power comes great responsibility.
ppGaz
Hear, hear.
Demdude
With the parties respective spin machines kicking in, how will the average voter be able to discern ‘the fuckups?”.
(Agree with the sentiment, but wondering how we get there in this environment.)
Brad R.
At least we now agree that there was some major fuck-up-ing going on. There is NO WAY it should have taken this goddamn long to bring basic aid to people at the Convention Center. Someone fucked up, I wanna know who. (And like Kos, I don’t care what party they’re from… although I’ll admit that I think Brown is an asshole and would personally like to see him publicly shamed.)
kl
John Cole, I implore you to say more things that ppGaz agrees with, if only to radically reduce his wordcount.
ppGaz
Works for me.
John Cole
Any time there are 300,000 people left remaining in a city after a mandatory evacuation, I would suggest that there has been a major fuck-up. And it appears there was no plan whatsoever, at any level, to evacuate. Talks about plans. Documents pointing out who is responsible for the evacuation.
But no evacuation. I don’t think I have ever been as frustrated with government ever. I am this close to buying a fucking generator, some bottled water, and some shotgun shells and moving to the woods because we are all fucked.
John S.
That’s probably how the people still stuck down there feel when they say that they don’t feel like American citizens anymore. Being a stranger in a strange land when it’s the place you once called home has got to be an incredibly desperate feeling.
That may be the epitome of ‘fucked’.
rkrider
And, to my surprise, the nice lady answering the phone said it was true and they told/asked/ordered not to enter NO. She then went right into her spiel about all the other work the Red Cross was doing across the region. I said that’s nice, but I still didn’t understand why they weren’t in NO. To my amazement, she patiently explained it to me. I even called back to verify what she said. This time she asked if I was media, I said no, just a concerned and confused contributor.
So here goes: Homeland Security (her term, not mine) told the Red Cross DO NOT enter New Orleans and says this still now. And why, you may ask? Not Security. Not worker safety. Not lack of access. It was because people would be drawn to the Red Cross food and they wouldn’t want to go to be evacuated. So I asked: “The people starving and dying at the convention center yesterday couldn’t get Red Cross food and water because they would be drawn to the food at the convention center, where they were, and not want to be evacuated from the convention center where no evacuations were going on or planned and all the while they are dying”. (Actually, it was a couple questions.) She went back into her spiel about all of the other good work they were doing. When I asked again, she said yes, that was true. She seem relieved to admit it.
In closing, I asked if she asked this question before since she was very familiar with the answer she gave. She said yes. And I promised another donation. Which they will get after this post.
So, the question for Bushies, why was the Red Cross banned from NO when they knew people were starving? Could it be they were saving the convention center rescue until Bush’s visit today? It certainly seems like it. Doesn’t it?
Red Cross National Affairs number (202-303-5551)
Worst President Ever!
jobiuspublius
ROFLMAO Um, the ones on Trent Lotts shiney new porch.
capelza
There were 300,000??? Wow..I thought it was about 90,000…which is still a huge number.
You know, I would love tro skip the “blame” phase in the next few months, but go straight to the “let’s get it right” for the next time phase. I have to say, I am NOT reassurred if a devastating terrorist strike hits a large city…
That said, the LA Governor’s letter to Bush on the 28th? Shouldn’t that have kicked off the whole Fema/Natl. Guard thing? I don’t know.
At the last, I, too, am incensed that for whatever reason something was collectively so FUBAR that in this country, we have seen this. And when the bodies start being buried in mass graves if that is the case…words fail me…
Demdude
ROFLMAO Um, the ones on Trent Lotts shiney new porch.
Thanks Darrell.
RationalBias
That fact that you are fluffing Bush at this time, when his total lack of leadership is laid so utterly bear for all to see, means than I am moving your blog out of the “Sane Right” directory in my bookmarks.
Furthermore, this is the saddest example of Republicans putting the Elephant above the flag I have ever seen:
“It is a shame that the Republicans have consolidated so much control in government, because ultimately a large portion of the axe will be falling on their necks – just as it would if the circumstances were identical and Democrats had this much power. Not to sound cliche, but with great power comes great responsibility.”
Please. This administration has made a complete mess of everything they lay their hands on! Have they set the bar so low that you now cannot recognize rank incompetence? If the Democrats were in power they wouldn’t have cultivated an administration that is utterly divorced from reality, rewards failure, and punishes only ideological non-adherence.
You got a problem with the “blame-game”? This ain’t a game. This is just blame, laid where it is completely deserved. If you do not see that, you are utterly blinded by partisanship and you need to wake up.
scs
Isn’t now the time for someone (the governemnt) to look around and do an inventory of other projects and procedures around the country that need to be funded to prevent another such catastrophe?
John Cole
Actually, I believe the letter was on the 26th and he responded that day or the next. And no, the Governor has to activate her national guard on her own.
I believe the state of emergency bit just gives the feds the go-ahead to preposition assets, and sets up the legal necessities for them to move in to help and sets up the fud-sharing procedures.
rkrider
Jesus Fucking Christ!
Go to the Red Cross’s website
Disaster FAQs
Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
* Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.
* The state Homeland Security Department had requested–and continues to request–that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.
* The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.
* The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.
* The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.
* The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.
* As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.
Bush is letting these people starve… WTF?!?!
jobiuspublius
Remember, the days when the military didn’t need cost plus hoars like haliburton to hold their hands?
Now that I think of it, how irresponsible to attempt this new huge cludge called Home Land Security Department when we could face catastrophic terrorist attacks, hurricane’s, or earthquake’s without notice, and we already had something in better shape that just need a tune up, relatively speaking. Hubris. I suspect that I have not given Mayor Nagin enough respect.
TheocracyIsComing
This Strock guy seems like a real nice fellow:
http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=URI:urn:newsml:reuters.com:20050902:MTFH71788_2005-09-02_21-45-13_N02564147:1
He’s so full of CYA BS it stinks real bad. I’m shocked at how unsympathetic he is as he completely washes the ACOE hands of any responsibility for the failed levees.
vinc
I would love tro skip the “blame” phase in the next few months, but go straight to the “let’s get it right” for the next time phase.
Let’s not ignore the value of the blame phase. The “blame” phase is necessary to motivate people to get it right.
Obviously the prospect of thousands of people dying wasn’t enough to motivate certain people to do their job right. Who exactly these people are I don’t know yet, but obviously they need to be replaced. If we then ridicule and abuse these people in the media, we will make sure that whoever replaces them has the extra motivation of knowing that their career and good name depends on their job performance.
Heathcliff
Why bother with an inquiry to find out who’s to blame? Just wait to see whom Bush gives a medal.
tBone
Nice post, John. There better be some goddamn heads rolling in the wake of this, and both Rs and Ds ought to have the courage to point fingers at people on their side of the aisle if it’s clear that they screwed up.
I’m somewhat encouraged that the leaders here (Collins and Lieberman) are both mavericks in their own parties; maybe we’ll get more than another empty-headed bipartisan CYA excercise like the 9-11 Commission. But I doubt it.
Off-topic, but based on this memo (urging Congress not to delay the vote on the estate tax repeal), I think it’s clear that Grover Nordquist ought to be immediately evacuated to N.O. and dropped naked in the middle of the Superdome. A sampling from the last paragraph:
What an unbelievable asshat.
kl
“Fuck off.” “Drop dead.” Whoops, didn’t mean to steal your catchphrases.
ppGaz
I generously donate them to you! It appears you have nothing to say, left to your own devices. Glad to help.
jobiuspublius
One little view of Nagin
So, he had 4 years this, presumable, first time mayor, to clean up a notoriously corrupt city in a notoriously corrupt state and make sense out of Dear Leader’s Homeland Security WerrClusterfuck.
It’s not like he didn’t try. Is it true that FEMA is responsible for logistics? Then, I guess FEMA should have stocked the shelters. If he was to evacuate them out of N.O. then some other jurisdiction would be involved? Isn’t Homeland Security in charge of preparation plans? How well are they doing? Could it be that Nagin is being scapegoated? And, why is a port of national significance entirely in the hands on one person, a mayor? Don’t talk to me about New York. New York keeps half you red staters alive. Where does N.O. get the money to survive? Dear Leader. And what’s he done? Cut it. Is that how you treat a port like N.O.? Is that how you treat 1/5 – 1/4 of your nations energy production? Is that how you treat 1/4 of the countries sea food? Is that how you treat an area that’s vital to national security? YOU FUCKING GUT IT?
Not a bad guy, huh? Did anybody ever accuss Dear Leader of cracking down on corruption? How’s Kenny Boy?
Almost sounds like Dear Leader, but, with a little less responsibility. We only need one scapegoat right? Oh, two? Ok, how about a govenor? Oh, has anybody noticed that Tom Delay has come out of his Jesus cocoon? He wants to be a savior to refugees. Is Texas really any better than Louisianna?
Dear Leader the Rebuilder. Why hurry to prepare and mitigate, when it is so much grander to rebuild? “He” will rebuild Iraq, New Orleans, Iran, Korea, Venezuela, the whole world. My, what a mighty Ceasar, the mightyest. And what do we get out of all this rebuilding? Prosperity. This next election, which started as soom as the last one ended, is about Prosperity vs. anything in Dear Leaders path. We are being played. Remember, people died while Dear Leader arranged the chairs on the titanic for us. Dear Leaders Prosperity = Disaster Profiteering.
jobiuspublius
ROFLMAO Oh, the naivette of grown men. ROFLMAO
jobiuspublius
ROFLMAO And the shilling begins. Prepare to see many buzz cuts on TV. We’ve been Iraqified.
jobiuspublius
Let’s not forget:
Roberts
Estate Taxes
….
kl
That’s half the battle right there.
Boronx
No whitewashes. Find out who fucked up. Republicans, Democrats, I don’t care. Anyone who screwed up should be tarred and feathered.
Nice sentiment, Kos, but if 9/11 is any precedent, than there will be exactly jack shit fallout among negligent parties
Ancient Purple
Grover Nordquist is proof positive that human beings are, indeed, born with no souls.
Ancient Purple
Drats!
That should read:
Grover Nordquist is proof positive that some human beings are, indeed, born with no souls.
(It’s way too late.)
Mark-NC
Boronx Says:
No whitewashes. Find out who fucked up. Republicans, Democrats, I don’t care. Anyone who screwed up should be tarred and feathered.
Nice sentiment, Kos, but if 9/11 is any precedent, than there will be exactly jack shit fallout among negligent parties
EXACTLY!!!!!
I would like to know – some day – how it was possible for NORAD to totally collapse and do nothing as hijacked planes took out targets.
In simple terms, we train constantly for interceptions, and are always on alert. About once a week on average, this system gets tested for some reason. Remember Stewart Paine’s jet. A private jet that was off course and unresponsive had a military escort in 15 minutes.
By contrast, the first trade tower was hit and the second was hit 20 minutes later. The Pentagon was about 45 minutes after that. These were hijacked airliners with the trifecta (unresponsive, off course, transponder turned off). Where was our military response? Who screwed up? Why?
I doubt we will have an answer to those questions as long is Bush is in office, and I doubt we will get any better answers for the total failure of FEMA either.
tBone
You think Lieberman is a mainstream Democrat? You should clue the Kossacks in, then – they hate him because he doesn’t toe the party line.
Narvy
Unconscionable – ADJECTIVE: 1. Not restrained by conscience; unscrupulous. Syn: Behavior of LA Homeland Security Department vis-a-vis the Red Cross.
The Red Cross website refers to the “state HS Department”. It really exists. See The Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (LHLS & EP). This appears on their “About” page:
…but apparently not ready to permit others to serve the people.
When the Finger of Blame stops spinning, it should be pointing straight at them.
CaseyL
rkRider: Can you get the news media on that story? It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.
I’ve just heard on NPR that the evacuation buses from NO have been halted, on orders from the Federal Govt, “with no explanation.”
We know that Bush turned FEMA into the hotbed of political patronage it was under his father and Reagan. We know that the head of FEMA was utterly and profoundly unqualified for the post.
We know that the head of Homeland Security knew less about what was going on in NO than people watching the news on TV.
We know that 4 years after 9/11, Homeland Security and FEMA were completely unprepared for and taken by surprise by a megadisaster that had been predicted in general terms for years and in specific terms for days.
We know that funds meant to shore up NO protection against flooding were diverted to Iraq.
We know that NG troops in LA were diverted to Iraq. And so was their equipment. This meant that NG guards and equipment had to come from elsewhere, which meant it took longer.
How anyone can look at this and say the blame lies anywhere but at Bush’s feet amazes me.
This is the latest failure in a long list of failures by the Bush Administration; failures that the Bush Admin keeps excusing by saying “No one could have predicted this.”
“No one could have expected hijackers would fly planes into buildings.”
“No one could have expected the Iraqi insurgency wold be so widespread.”
“No one could have expected the levees to fail.”
The first time, maybe it was true. But the second? And the third? How big a clue-stick does the Bush Admin need to realize that wishful thinking isn’t a rational basis for policy? And how big a clue-stick do Bush’s supporters need to realize Bush has been an unqualified disaster for our country?
How many more thousands have to die? How many more hundreds of billions have to be frittered away?
This isn’t about hating Bush. It’s about loving America – and hating Bush because his Administration is a clear and present danger to America.
cfw
Let’s not forget individual responsibility here. I can see electing not to evacuate – not smart, but who knew? In LA, CA we routinely stay near rioting, fires, earthquke risks. We routinely stayed nar hurrianes in FL and AL when I lived there.
Those without funds were not lining up for buses, asking for rides, contacting the City, contacting relatives. A bit of inertia.
I doubt we will find tens of thousands died. Of those who died, I doubt we will see many deaths that were preventable by quicker response. I think the comments about cannibalism are pure baloney.
Once half the city is flooded, does tht mean the average US citizen is unable to fend for herself or himself for a few days without big brother helping out now (if not sooner)? Whatever happened to coordinating with neighbors, and limited police presence, to forage the available resources? I think that went on and boneheads in the MSM and on blogs called it illegal looting.
I think the gun rights folks were eally stupid in calling on anyone not in the militia or police to use guns to protect against anything beyong death or grave personal injury. Bloggers should have been saying put the weapons away and be a neighbor – share what you have in the way of food. Looting for jewelry in a flooded city is a matter for the insurance carriers. I think the press also may have blown things way out of proportion, after the flooding.
Vladi G
I’m not necessarily a violent person. There are a lot of people I really don’t like very much, but I’d like to think that if I were in their presence, I would maintain civility.
But I honestly think that if I were ever introduced to Grover Norquist, my first reaction would be to punch him right in the face.
skip
Again, from the NietzscheMencken blog (Sage & Iron Prophet):
Sage: I confess I am suffering something of a Katrina overdose, but I wanted to express this fond wish to the President :
In the future, when you express your disdain for “nation-building” and the like, please do not feel so compelled to prove it. Iraq had already been proof enough. New Orleans is blantant overkill. Do I now understand that this President, like a maid who “doesn’t do windows,” doesn’t “do aftermaths?”
Prophet: Perhaps Venezula’s Mr. Chavez is right in saying Bush’s real forte is vacations. Indeed, the South American wag refers to Mr. Bush as the “King of Vacations.” It moves me to recast Bishop Berkley’s riddle as:
“If a tree fell in the forest and no one were there, would it sound like George W. Bush looks when under pressure?”
Sage: I’m not sure I folllow that. I always thought that looking into Bush’s eyes was like looking through an open window.
Prophet: Is there a moral here?
Sage: Perhaps only that a leader who says the role of the Federal Government is overrated has proven that much correct–at least when HE is running it. Moreover, no one responsible seems to be in peril of being dismissed. Indeed, they’ll get commendations, as did that boob George Tenent. FEMA’s Michael Brown, former head of the International Arabian Horse Association(!), will probably get the Medal of Freedom too, posthumously—after the people of Orleans and Jefferson parishes geld him with a dull file.
Prophet: The underlying cause, of course, is the fact that the US has no east-to-west mountain range, thereby inviting extreme weather. Fronts and storm from the gulf sail right up and in.
Sage: A fact that wasn’t unknown to the President and FEMA well before Katrina appeared on the horizon. Bangla Desh made adjustments after 1991, the US did not after Hurricane Andrew .
Prophet: What do you see as the mortal sin here?
Sage: The officials clearly ignored the poor in “gaming” such a storm.
Prophet: And the President?
Sage: He reaped too many of the laurels after managing 9/11; he will reap too much of the blame for mismanaging this catastrophe.
Prophet: Poetic justice, then?
Sage: Prosiac justice, after so many days of ongoing garment-wrenting. I doubt that even Genesis was all that exciting after day 5. Your lesson learned?
Prophet: To quote myself, “often mud sits on the throne.”
Kimmitt
Oh, hey, wow, a bunch of Republican hacks will be investigating whether or not the guy who controls the purse strings on their reelections campaigns messed up.
Twenty bucks says the Governor of Louisiana is accused of summoning the hurricane through Satanist rituals in the final draft.