Jim Henley, while ending the non-controversy about the supposed touchdown that was not called at the end of the first half in the Super Bowl, notes this Gene Wojciechowski contribution to the ‘counter-revolution’:
And finally, can we stuff a very large sani-sock into the mouth of Seattle coach Mike Holmgren, and anyone else who says the refs had it out for the poor, little Seahawks?
The signs are very clever (Refs 21, Seahawks 10 … or, Pittsburgh’s 12th Man: The Refs), but they’re bogus. It’s how sore losers rationalize a final score. Worse yet, it’s crying. And there’s no crying in football, unless you’re Hines Ward.
***Enough already with the whining. The Seahawks had their chances. Plenty of them to overcome the Steelers and, if they insist, the refs, too.
Holmgren, who didn’t exactly distinguish himself in the waning minutes of both halves, is no doubt suffering some post-Super Bowl anger. Perfectly understandable, especially in front of the thousands who greeted the team upon its return to Seattle. But days, weeks, months from now, when he’s able to think more clearly, he’ll realize the only people to blame for the loss were wearing Seahawks metallic blue, not black and white.
Gene isn’t the only ones, as others join the pushback:
Seattle, once associated with coffee, should be better known now for the kind of fine whine derivative of sour grapes. You thought the Seahawks and their fans were beaten pretty soundly in the Super Bowl? They have been far bigger losers since.
Will you people shut up already?
A couple of debatable penalty flags fall the wrong way and you’re going to start wincing and weeping and limping around on that lame crutch?
Aside to Team Mocha Latte: Your Seahawks lost, 21-10, for lots of reasons primarily summarized in the technical phrase, “played lousy.” You know how Steelers fans swarmed Detroit by about a 10-1 margin over Seattle fans? That mirrored the Seahawks’ shrunken team effort on the big stage.
There was no shame in losing the game. There has been much shame since.
The Seahawks and their fans (and I really do feel their fan’s pain) now risk becoming not only the Super Bowl XL losers, but being labeled as a bunch of whining losers. And that really is a shame, because I think despite their mistakes, theyshowed the entire world that they were a much better team than anyone gave them credit for being.
Meanwhile, on the other coast, the Steelers had their victory parade yesterday, and these were sent to me by a family friend:
Mike Logan (L), Mrs. Cowher, Bill Cowher.
Charlie Batch and Big Ben.
Super Bowl MVP Hines Ward.
Pro-Bowl bound Troy Polamalu and his hair.
And while this isn’t from the rally, my favorite picture:
My favorite player, big man Casey Hampton (HOW AWESOME WAS HIS SACK!), hoisting the Lombardi Trophy with Mr. Rooney.
I have decided I am retiring my Hampton jersey and framing it with pictures and mementos from the season all around the borders. I don’t know whose jersey I will wear next year. I am torn between Faneca and Heath Miller.
*** Update ***
BTW- One of the things that is helping to fuel this whining about the refs is the Steelers fault. They were too good during the previous three AFC football games, and everyone thought they were going to come out and do it again. So when the Seahawks turned out to be a much better team than people expected, and the Steelers came out jittery and pretty awful on offense, and people add that to the two blown calls and the other judgement calls, they act like the Seahawks were cheated. They weren’t. The Steelers just beat them, and other than Skip Bayless and a few other people (and Skip Bayless is such a Steeler hater that he thinks Jerome Bettis, fifth on the all time rushing list, a six time pro bowler, and Super Bowl Champion, still does not belong in the Hall of Fame), most experts agree that the better team won. So let’s cut the crap.
Danny
this is a fucking stupid blog.
1- who cares about football.
2- it wasn’t the dems taking an opportunity to attack bush. it was black people being black and then being derided for it by assholes like you.
asshole.
Steve
I think what you’re missing is the huge number of nonpartisans who felt that Seattle got screwed by the refs. Everyone at my office felt the officiating was completely unfair, and I don’t think a single one of them had a rooting interest in the outcome. Personally, I probably like the Steelers better, being a Rust Belt guy myself, but I’ve watched enough Duke basketball to know one-sided officiating when I see it.
Bob In Pacifica
Now Cole likes his Super Bowls just like elections. Fixed. Now don’t talk about it, it’s not a controversy.
Sam Hutcheson
Repeat it all you want, John. It still won’t be true. If your team had been treated to the officiating the Seahawks got you’d still be complaining about it, and you damn well know it.
SeesThroughIt
I’d go with the Faneca jersey, John. The picture-perfect block he made to spring Willie Parker for his record-setting TD run is the best illustration of why he’s one of the finest–if not THE finest–offensive linemen in the game. Without guys like Alan, the team goes nowhere.
However, Heath Miller was really big-time in the playoffs as well. He got some accolades, but probably not enough. Notice how he was the primary weapon when the Steelers came out slinging against the Colts? He was as fantastic up the seams in the playoffs as Jerramy Stevens was awful up the seams in the Super Bowl.
And yes, Casey Hampton getting that sack was an amazing play. And well-deserved–the guy spends 95 percent of his time doing the thankless job of clogging up the middle in the 3-4, completely neglecting his own stats so that others can rack up the numbers. Good for him for getting a glory-boy stat in the biggest game.
Blue Neponset
It isn’t like the whining losers are harping about one call. If that were the case I might agree that it is time to move on, but the whining losers have a pretty good point. The officiating sucked and all the sucky calls went against Seatle. I don’t think it was a conspiracy but it has hurt the NFL as a whole and needs to be addressed.
Pooh
If you stink up the joint, the fact that there is a whiff of official screwage is just TFB. The ‘hawks sucked on the field. They should have been up 17-0 (regardless of the PI) by the time the Big Ben play happened/ Holmgren SUCKED on the sideline. Who could have seen the Randle-El pass coming? I mean it’s not like they’ve run that play 10 times before or that everyone knows he was a pretty good college QB. And Denny Green called, he’d like his clock management plan back.
John Cole
Sam-
Just curious. Do you base your arguments on what I am actually saying, or some caricature of what I am saying, because it sure seems like the latter.
Of course I would be bitching. I even listed two calls that I thought were blown calls. I would also be bitching about the other calls which were judgement calls (I would want everything to go my way, just as Seahawks fans would).
But my bitching about a judgement call does not make the call objectively wrong. I die a thousand miniature deaths every time the opposing team gains three yards during the game. I KNOW what the die-hard Seahawks fans are saying.
but what Holmgren did was just wrong- did you hear Cowher complaining after the Indy calls (which were not judgement calls, but just OBJECTIVELY bad) like Holmgren did?
And the other thing they are doing that irritates me is pretending there were no calls that went Seattles way. What about the block in the back that was not called on the Herndon INT? What about the Stephens fumble that was not called. What about the Heath Miller PI call that we managed to convert a 3rd and 20 something after?
If anything, it is the neutral ‘fans of the game’ who are being even bigger and more irritating loudmouths, showing NO perspective whatsoever.
Davebo
Here’s an age test.
I’ve got two words for you John.
Mike Renfro
SeesThroughIt
ZING!
John Cole
AFC Championship game, 1980. One of the worst calls ever.
Jim Henley
But the huge number of non-partisans are wrong. Click through to the “Ask the Official” article I link. He talks about all the disputed calls, and covers some key calls against the Steelers that no one talks about. PLUS, an interesting fact was noted re the clip call on Hasselbeck – the same official called the same penalty on an offensive tackler during an interception return in the regular season. The victim: Steeler Center Jeff Harting. The game: Pittsburgh @ Indianapolis (regular season).
It’s really hard to spin the same official calling the same penalty twice – once hurting the Steelers and once helping – as pro-Steeler bias.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9216313
Scroll down to “Jeff Hartings”.
The Other Steve
There’s a moral lesson to be made here about being a gratious winner.
Calling people whiners when they complain about the referees does not make you one.
Jon
Holmgren’s vapor-lock at the end of both halves was truly spectacular to behold; if I were a Seattle fan I would be screaming for an investigation of whether he has any gambling debts he was trying to assuage by providing a Steeler cover and the under.
I don’t know that the bad calls were decisive, but even if it doesn’t shift the game, a bad call is still a bad call on the merits, and the notion that we should let it slide because it didn’t affect the ultimate outcome of the game is pretty woolly logic.
At any rate, it was just the capper on possibily the worst postseason of officiating – well, ever. I don’t necessarily believe the NFL had it in for the Seahawks, but I couldn’t look a Seattle fan in the eye and tell them they were wrong to think so. And let’s not even start in on the Peyton Protection Act.
If I wanted gimmicked officiating, I’d still be watching the WWF on Monday nights. As it is, the NFL has a crisis in officiating, because it’s possible for a reasonble person to question whether a game will be officiated by a competent crew with no higher agenda. Which is a bad place for a sports league to be in.
Vladi G
Nothing to do with football here, but would someone PLEASE, FOR ONCE, PROPERLY CHARACTERIZE THE PARABLE OF THE FOX AND THE GRAPES? This is fucked up more often than just about any literary device I’ve ever seen.
Look people, it’s very simple. There was a fox. He wanted some grapes, but they were really high up on the vine. He couln’t reach them, so he walked away claiming that they were probably sour anyway. He denied their desirability.
No one on the Seahawks is saying “we didn’t want to win that stupid old Super Bowl anyway.” They aren’t denying the desirability of the championship. It’s not “sour grapes” to complain about shitty officiating.
Really, people, Aesop wasn’t all that complicated.
Jim Henley
This is totally my quote of the day.
Steve
Jim, I found the link interesting, particular with regard to the pylon play. I’m just saying that it’s a mistake to characterize the large number of people who felt the Seahawks got a raw deal as nothing more than sore losers.
Vladi G
Good lord, Sam, he was whining about the overturn of the Polamalu interception against Indianapolis for a week, and his team WON that game.
BumperStickerist
In Bayless’s defense, and using a line from this very blog, Bettis is the running back who, when you need a yard, he’ll get you three, and when you need five yards, he’ll get you three.
That, and if John had to choose a running back for his all-time Steelers team, he’d go with Franco Harris.
slightlybad
How can you assholes even be worried about this stupid stereotypical macho GAME and its asinine war comparisons when THERE IS A REAL WAR GOING ON!!! By not doing everything in your power to oppose the facist junta that is consolidating power as we speak, you are objectively supporting it!!! Chickenshit chickenhawks, fiddling while Rome burns…
ppGaz
1) All hail the refs, who are now promoting the story, “Refs Think Refs Did Fine in Super Bowl.” Does Jon Stewart know about this?
2) DougJ, are you out there? You can learn a lot about blog trolling by watching John Cole work. The guy has turned trolling his own blog into an art form.
zzyzx
Like I said on a thread that no one was reading anymore, perhaps the biggest difference is the timing of the flags from the perspective of the viewer. The OPI call did come and the holding call seemed to come after the play was over. I assume that the flag was thrown earlier on the holding call, but ABC completely missed it; the flag graphic came up only at the very end of the play.
That makes it look a lot more like the refs were trying to find reasons to take the game away from the Hawks.
And John, when the reason why the Hawks lost was as much due to dropped passes, missed field goals, and having big plays called back for penalties, it sure looks a lot more like a Seahawks loss than a Steelers victory.
Pooh
Indeed, Cowher called Joey Porter an idiot for doing just that.
I wondered the same thing, especially the “not kicking the field goal rightnow” bit at the end. The only reason that isn’t stupid to go for the TD at all costs was to cover.
Where was Rick Tocchet on Sunday?
John Cole
Again, are you all arguing against some caricature of what I said, or what I actually said? From a little over twelve hours after the SB:
I mean, jesus. Flame me for when I get something wrong, but pay attention to what I have said, please.
zzyzx
Eh, going for the FG at the end raises your chances from like 3% to like 5%. Technically a mistake perhaps, but not something to kill a coach for. The end of the first half was weirder – it was Hasselbeck audibling to a play that Cower saw was likely going to work, hence the Steelers time out. That’s not really Holmgren’s fault though if the QB shows inititive.
ImJohnGalt
Is it just me who finds it difficult to juxtapose this whole meme about how Seattle fans are nothing but complaining whiners and crybabies on the same day that the bedwetting right is getting the vapors because a preacher pointed our that there have been no WMD found in Iraq?
I mean, aren’t they both whining?
zzyzx
Ok, true. I’ll grant you that. It was just “The Steelers just beat them” and anything implying Skip “I spent the entire postseason writing about how bad the Seahawks are and how they shouldn’t be allowed to blemish my Superbowl” Bayless is somehow biased in favor of the Seahawks that make me flinch a bit.
Hey at least we’re doing better than the Pats fans who are STILL bitching about the Broncos game.
Jim Henley
I watch football every week. It’s not unusual for the flag to come out slow on a PI call, offensive OR defensive.
Madden and Michaels not noticing the Locklear hold flag on time is a broadcaster problem. ABC’s production staff not digging up the Hartings clip flashback from the Indy game may not be broadcaster incompetence, but it’s unfortunate. I assume it was CBS’s “A” crew that called Colts-Steelers during the regular season. If it had been their year to call the Super Bowl, viewers might have gotten a completely different impression of what was going on on the field based on what that crew could have told them about history repeating.
ABC didn’t mention the block in the back on Big Ben during the Int return, though obviously, if you’re running back a Steeler turnover, he’s the *tackler you most fear*! :)
ABC didn’t stress that the “dropped pass” in the second quarter by Stephens could very easily have been ruled a fumble. (The Steeler pursuit only gave up on the ball because the whistle blew – otherwise it’s unlikely the ball would have rolled out of bounds.)
Somehow we’re supposed to be SURE that if Ben’s TD had been overturned the Steelers would NOT have gotten a touchdown and also SURE if Stephens’ catch at the One had stood that the Seahawks WOULD have gotten a touchdown.
At this point a lot of people seem to have moved from “The refs totally blew the game in favor of the Steelers!” to “It’s okay that we THOUGHT the refs totally blew the game in favor of the Steelers.” Well it was. But their feelings are a side issue.
Steven Donegal
I’m a Seahawks guy and the consensus among rationale fans (an oxymoron) in Seattle is that we lost because we played one of the worst games of the season. The calls played a part but the Hawks had their chances and didn’t take advantage. The refs didn’t play matador defense on Parker’s run or bite hard on that reverse pass that everybody but our secondary saw coming. Any way, congrats to the Steelers. They deserved to win.
The one thing I will take exception to is that the Steelers were the better team. If these teams played ten times, the Hawks would win more than they’d lose.
Vladi G
Most coaches don’t do a lot of complaining after games that they win. That’s John’s territory.
Not at all. The complaint from those of us who didn’t have a horse in this race isn’t that the Steelers wouldn’t have scored on the next play, or that the Seahawks definitely would have. It’s that we’d like to see what would have happened if the calls had been made correctly.
I still find it kind of funny that the holding call was so bad that very few people have even mentioned that the only reason it was close was because the Steeler’s guy was about 2 yards across the line of scrimmage on that play AND the next one, which both weren’t called.
Tim
As a Seahawks fan I completely agree with your comments. I only wish your rational approach and fair mindedness applied to politics as well as football. Perhaps you should make this a football blog with occasional politcal insights.
zzyzx
Actually, I’d say that people have moved on from, “The refs totally blew the game in favor of the Steelers,” to, “Hey, pitchers and catchers report next week.”
Only the diehard Steelers fans (and the upset Seahawks fans) really are still caring about this game. The Sports Guy can argue for as long as he wants that the tuck rule was the correct call (and he’d be right), but still that’s going to be the association of the 2001 playoffs.
Sometimes you just have to enjoy having the t-shirts and sweatshirts and DVDs and not worry about what other people say. If they had flagged the never called but technically true ineligable man downfield on the 3rd and 28, and the illegal block on the Ben on the trick play, leading to a Seahawks win, I think I’d still enjoy the parade somehow.
And at least NO ONE in the Hawks organization has claimed that the referees were intentionally fixing the game because they wanted the Steelers to win.
Uberweiss
The Lombardi Trophey is back where it belongs; in Pittsburgh. That’s all that matters anymore. Here we go Steelers, Here we go.
ppGaz
Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.
But here, what counts is, “Jerome finally got HIS trophy.”
So, you know, just keep the officiating thing in perspective. Because, you know, it’s Jerome. I guess the Good Lord was jus’ lookin out fer him that day.
MAX HATS
I live in Seattle, been here most my life, and this “whining” doesn’t actually exist. When the Seahawks lost, there was just a sense of cosmic justice. Seattle teams aren’t supposed to win. They’re supposed to burn out in the playoffs. So when the Seahawks refused to take the fall, fate had to step in. That’s just how things are.
The “Seattle whining” you are paradoxically whining about is actually coming from football fans across the internet who don’t particularly care much about Seattle anyway. See: ESPN, this blog’s comments, etc.
But I never read this blog for facts or truth. Just entertainment. And shit like this is why. Andrew Sullivanism to the nth degree. Take a presuposition, elevate it to gospel truth, then reform the worldview along those lines. Rinse, repeat. You hear whining about Seattle, therefore Seattle itself is whiny, therefore Seattle is going to be famous for being whiny, etc. Dumb.
Sherard
Sorry, John, but honest griping is coming from non-fans of either team. I don’t have any affiliation with either Seattle or the Steelers, and there is no doubt the Seahawks got absolutely robbed by the officials.
The Other Steve
I don’t much care for football, but I did watch the game. I’d agree with this statement.
Seattle completely dominated the Steelers in the first half, at least in terms of defense.
In the second half, the Steelers won because Seattle played a really bad game both on defense and offense.
Still, the refs sucked bad. Although it could have been worse. If they hadn’t overturned that fumble call when Hasselbeck went down on contact, I’d say the refs were paid off.
John Cole
.
ESPN’s Stu Scott remarked that after the first quarter, a Seahawks fan came up to him and said “What do you think? We are leading 3-0!”
Scott remarked- “I think you guys are in trouble. You should be up 17-0 by now.”
John Cole
I tend to agree- most of the whining and bitching are from people other than Hawks fans, who seem like a pretty resilient bunch. That doesn’t mean that Holmgren’s remarks and the whining from the folks we just described isn’t going to taint the Seahawks fans. It will.
That is just good common sense for just about everything you read these days. The rest, I am not sure where you are coming from, but I agree with that.
Uberweiss
Why can’t we all just agree to disagree? Why is that so hard? The bottom line is that no matter how you view the refs job in the Super Bowl the simple truth is Seattle just played a bad game. I honestly don’t think the “blown calls” had anything to do with the overall outcome of the game. Seattle’s defense played really well and their offense played like a junior varsity team.
Sherard
To slightlybad, ImJohnGalt, and Tim – you three have GOT to be shitting me?!?!?! You realize you are showing yourselvs to be the absolute DEFINITION of a troll – leaving comments about politics in a goddam FOOTBALL post.
Seriously, GET.A.GRIP.
ppGaz
The new Balloon-Juice logo.
zzyzx
I just don’t think the whining is that out of the ordinary, especially because the average fan’s impression was, “Seattle got hosed,” and they aren’t going to read the blogs three days later to hear the counter-arguments. Already Steve Nash has used, “I feel like the Seattle Seahawks,” to say that he thought the Suns were robbed of a game.
It doesn’t matter that we played poorly and that the dropped passes and Jackson just barely being out of bounds are weighing more heavily on my mind than the OPI and the holding call. People think we were hosed, and so it would take a lot to get labelled as whiners. It’s the same reason Joey Porter isn’t considered a whiner.
ImJohnGalt
Sherard, try to keep up.
John, our generous host, who I am grateful to for this blog, calls out the people in some quarters who are in danger of becoming “whining losers” because they won’t let the Superbowl result go.
In another post below, he appears to be joining the chorus of righties who are whining about how a president from almost 30 years ago and a preacher who started the SCLC each made a comment that might have expressed an opinion about the sitting administration to an audience that was receptive to said observations.
If I feel I have a point to make about the incongruity of the two positions, I can either make it in this thread or the other one, as I cannot create my own thread. This being the most recent thread, I chose to post it here.
Sorry if I offended your delicate sensitivities.
Stop whining.
Bob In Pacifica
And while we’re at it, I’d like to clear up something else. Joe Montana did not miss the big introduction of Bowl MVPs because he wanted a hundred grand. He left because, now that he’s retired and away from the game, he wanted to spend time with his kids, watching them in their games.
Watching his kid play basketball is more important than parading in front of a crowd.
So there.
Mac Buckets
Ending the controversy? Not hardle even remotely close. The website guy comes off as a know-nothing. He never even addresses the John Clayton article regarding last year’s rule changes that should’ve allowed the Jackson TD (he says he doesn’t know about the article, which I Googled in five seconds — what a genius he must be!):
How much clearer does it need to be for you, John, before you admit the Hawks got jobbed — and without so much as a review!
As for the “Seattle should’ve overcome it” comment: Yeah, and the US basketball team had plenty of chances to win the game against the USSR in 1972, and the Braves had chances to beat Livan Hernandez in 1997, too, but that doesn’t mean those games weren’t stolen by lopsided officiating.
The Seahawks didn’t play great, but neither did the Steelers. They gave up almost 400 yards (500, if the refs had been correct) to Seattle, and the best players on the field were Walter Jones, Faneca, Hasselbeck, Ward and Alexander, in that order, if you ask me.
It’s pretty easy to look lousy if all your big plays get mysteriously disallowed by the refs, isn’t it? If the 75-yd run would have been called back by a mystery holding call, and the flea-flicker was called back for motion, we’d be saying the Steelers played the worst Super Bowl ever.
Again, I’m glad Bettis, Ward and Cowher got theirs, and I’m thrilled Holmgren (do we all agree he’s overrated now?) didn’t get his second ring. I’d just like to know who would’ve won in a fair game.
Harley
Oh, okay, let’s cut out the crap. And at the very least understand that the phantom holding call against the Seahawks was the turning point in the game. Full stop.
Cripes, even Madden, who rarely does so, was forced to admit the ref blew it.
goodlord
The pylon is not out of bounds if you touch it, but it does NOT constitute a foot being in bounds. You must have two feet touch down in bounds regardless of whether one touches the pylon before that. So, one foot down, one foot hits the pylon and then lands out of bounds is out of bounds and no catch. The problem is that the rule is written confusingly, but this was explained by officials. Clayton was wrong (big surprise0. If you want some more actual discussion of the calls and not ppgaz-style goading, go here:
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24802
Richard 23
Regardless of who “won,” it was still the most boring Superbowl game I have ever seen.
4jkb4ia
I have decided that nobody won. The Seahawks fans observing that the game was worse than usual have a point.
Tequila
I’d disagree with the Hawks fan who insists the Seahawks are a better team. You guys definitely outplayed us in the first half, not so much in the second half. The only reason the Hawks were even in the game at all in the fourth quarter was because Benji picked that moment for his absolute worst throw of the year.
The Seahawks played terribly, but the Steelers also played very poorly, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
In a seven-game series, I’d lay money on the Steelers to take five.
Richard Bennett
I ain’t no Seahawks fan. They’re Microsoft’s Team, representing the worst of American Whoring and Whining. But give me a break, that was the worst officiating I’ve ever seen in any sporting event at any level. The goddam WWE is more honest. The fuckin’ Congress should investigate the officiating and some people should go to prison. This isn’t just a case of some of breaks go against you and you have to shut up and take it, this is a scandal of major proportions.
The Steelers had no offense at all except for two lucky breaks on a 75 yd run from scrimmage and a circus play. There was probably holding on both of those plays, for sure on the circus play. And there were another half-dozen blown calls on major plays, all of them going against the ‘Hawks.
Yes, the Hawks dropped some balls and had some near-touchdowns nullified by poor footwork, but that should have simply reduced their margin of victory from 50-0 to 30-7 or so.
This game was a disgrace to football, professional athletics, and to the human spirit. Only a loser defends the damn refs or criticizes their critics.
BumperStickerist
and, more unforgivably, on the whole the commercials sucked, too.
—————————————-
Ezert
Did anyone happen to watch Inside the NFL last night on HBO? First off, Marino, Carter and Collinsworth (two former receivers) all agreed the interference was the right call. None seemed to discuss wether Ben actually scored, but all agreed it could not be reversed. They immediately dismissed the notion that Jackson kicking the pylon constituted a TD. You still need two feet, and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong. Marino agreed with holding, while Carter and Collinsworth did not. All agreed the foul on Hasselbeck was wrong, but everybody agrees with that. But that of course is the call with minimal impact. Given the no call on the block in the back on Ben, we can call it even. Hell, Steelers are actually down yardage.
Honmestly, I would have to say that and this
http://www.insidefootball.com/int/askofficial.html
continue to prove just how wrong the arguement that Seattle got screwed is.
Sam
John,
If the game’s outcome had been perfectly reversed, and if all of those calls had gone against you instead of for you, I’m assuming that you wouldn’t have posted anything angry about it on your website. You would have said something along the lines of, “The referees made some tough calls against us, but we deserved to lose.”
I really just cannot believe, after the fallout of the Indianapolis game that the Steelers WON, that you would have walked away from a Super Bowl loss with that kind of officiating and chalked it all up to some bad play by your team.
skip
Like I said a while back, John is the rarest of creatures: the “sore winner.”
Ezert
I would also like to add the reason Steelers fans bitched about the Indy game despite winning is different for one clear-cut reason. The reversal on the Polamalu pick was indefensible. There is no way a reasonable person should be able to look at that call, slow motion, several times and come to the conclusion the call should be reversed. The stupidity of that call boggles the mind.
Ezert
And John, I would go with a Miller jersey over Faneca, if for no other reason than he’s younger and you can get more mileage out of it. Although it is always nice to see an o-lineman get some love. I’ve had my Bettis since ’97. Might have to get a new one. Polamalu edges Porter because of his youth.
slightlybad
Sherard,
I was kidding dude — I knew something like that was coming and figured I would go ahead and say it.
And as a ‘Niners fan, I pretty much lost interest in the NFL sometime around October.
John Cole
I have been more gracious to the Seattle fans and all the loudmouthed ‘fans of the game’ who have done nothing but run their mouths about shit they don’t even understand than most people would.
“That should have been a touchdown at the end of the first half. His foot hit the pylon!” they chant ignorantly.
“No way you call pass interference! They robbed the Seahawks!” they scream, knowing full well it was contact and by rule a penalty, just one they do not like.
So quit telling me I am a sore winner. I am just tired of listening to the sore losers, who are trying to take away something from the Steelers who, in one season, went on the road and beat the #1, #2, and #3 seeds in the AFC, and the #1 seed in the NFC. But to listen to you people, the Steelers were just ‘given’ the game.
The Steelers had 330+ offense. even I know that 75 yards on the run plus 43 from the ‘circuys play’ adds up to significantly less than 330.
And I am sorry you are upset with the 75 yard run. I will tell Cowher and Whisenhunt that next time we go to the Super Bowl, we are only allowed to run the draw play when we run. God forbid we use our pro-bowl laden offenseive line and have our guard pull on the counter. That might lead to a lucky break.
Or what were we thinking drafting two qb/wr four years apart. No circus plays for us, I tell you. Let’s get rid of the forward pass altogether, since that newfangled aerial attack is susceptible to trickery and ‘circus plays.’ You know, like, “The Catch.”
I agree with you on a lot of things, but on this one you don;t know your ass from a hole in the ground. When your offense is struggling, and your coordinator throws in wrinkles to get the most out of your offense, it isn’t cheating or trickery, Richard. It is called coaching.
The Seahawks ought to look into it. It might have helped them in the last two minutes of each half.
Tony
I’m an old Pats fan and I couldn’t care less who won, I watched the game for the ads. By the end of the game I had a bad taste in my mouth, brought on by the “f___ing zebras”. I mean, really.
Look, in every game there are ticky-tack penalty calls. Sometimes they have big effects, as in nullifying a big runback, reception, run or touchdown, or in reversing a turnover. You see it in every game. Inevitably, you’re going to get a game where several occur, and they all go against one team. And boy, oh boy did that happen here.
I don’t think the refs are on the take, but what bugs me is that I wouldn’t be shocked if it was announced that they were. I hate it when the refs become that big a part of the game. I don’t know how they’re selected for the playoffs, but the league should take a close look at the process.
Oh, and by the way: Mr. Cole, don’t harp on the “sore loser” routine so quickly, it hasn’t even been a week, and Seattle did get screwed. I think it was just bad luck, but still – if the positions had been reversed, you being such a rabid fan, I think we’d be reading about it here until next September.
John Cole
Tony and everyone else-
I am going to say this one more time. I don;t think the Seahawks fans are being sore losers. They are taking it better than I would have. I think they are at risk of being labelled or tarred sore losers.
Why?
Because of all the ‘neutral’ fans and ‘fans of the game’ who start every comment with “I ain’t no Seahawks fan” and then talk out their ass for ten minutes about things.
zak822
Thank you, thank you and thank you again! It’s nice to see my Steelers accorded the fairness that is due them. Did anyone actually think Seattle was a better team than the Colts, Broncos or Bengals?
The “questionable” calls, when looked at in the cold light of day, turn out to be good calls. Holding calls are what players get when they’re getting beat at their position. Seahawk fans should tell their players that catching the ball in bounds is part of the game.
Winning football is about overcoming adversity. The Seahawks did not rise to the occasion. The Steelers overcame two interceptions and a lot of bad play. The Steelers got stronger in the second half and the Seahawks started coming unglued. They didn’t have the heart to win the big game.
Stop apologizing for them.
Oh, Danny, nice to see that they’re finally letting you out unsupervised.
Mac Buckets
I think I’m with you and John on that call now, and Clayton and Al Michaels were probably wrong in their interpretations (although Clayton probably talked over his example with someone in the NFL before he published it).
Uberweiss
Of course you are going to be right when you leave out half of the rule proving your wrong.
goodlord
It is interesting that most of the people that agree with the calls actually dsicuss them in detail, but most of the people that disagree with the calls seem to say something along the lines of, “I thought the refs did a terrible job.” Maybe if you didn’t just take what that blow-hard Michaels and that fat buffoon Madden said as gospel, you would learn to actually watch the game with your own eyes. The ONLY call that was not clearly according to the rules was the Hasselbeck penalty. Even on that one, the official thought Hasselbeck made contact with a blocker below the knees. He just saw it wrong. The others were the right calls, no matter how much people might wish they weren’t.
Uberweiss
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
As I clearly said in another post the only call that you can actually argue is the above mentioned penalty. But why would you? That call does not change the outcome of the game in the least. If you have never watched a MNF football game when the Steelers are playing then you would never know that Madden hates the Steelers. He still holds a grudge against them from the 70’s. I don’t think I have ever heard him argue a call in favor of the Steelers.
And for all of you who believe the Seahawks were the better team, PLEASE!!! You really know nothing about football. The Steelers BEAT the #1, #2, and #3 teams in the AFC. The dominant conference in the NFL. Who did the Seahawks beat? They play in the worst conference in the NFC. It’s really hard to win you division when you play the 49ers, Cardinals, and the Rams six times. They are three of the worst teams in the dreaded NFC this year. Who did they beat in the NFC playoffs? The Redskins barely even got in the playoffs then they beat a team that had NO running game whatsoever.
Please stop. The Steelers played a bad game and still beat the Seahawks and it wasn’t because of the calls. Also, as a good friend reminded me; “the Steelers tend to win these things in twos”.
gorillagogo
That’s Charlie Batch in the photo with Roethlisberger, not Bettis. I’ve got about a dozen other photos from people that show it more clearly than the one you’ve got up. Besides, Bettis was wearing a yellow coat.
zzyzx
We beat the teams we played. I wouldn’t gloat about weak schedules since Pittsburgh beat Houston, Tenn, Baltimore, Green Bay, Detroit, and Cleveland for 7 of their 11 wins.
zzyzx
…or to put it another way, if you’re sick of hearing about how the Steelers won due to bad calls, Hawks fans are sick of hearing about our schedule when the winning percentage of the teams we beat is higher than half of the other teams in the playoffs. No one mentions that the Colts had a weak schedule.
Uberweiss
There is a reason why they have the best winning percentage of any team in the playoffs. Because they only beat three teams with a winning percentage above .500. And yes, one of those wins came against the Colts, who basically gave up at that point in the season. Two out of there three losses came against teams with a above .500 winning percentage. The reason nobody is talking about the Colts is because they didn’t make it to the Super Bowl. If you combine the records of every member of the NFC west including the Hawks, the winning percentage is still below .500. Please don’t lie to me and say that the NFC was better than the AFC either.
zzyzx
The winning percentage of the teams that the Steelers beat was a stunning .415. Sure that’s better than the Hawks .404, but it’s not exactly a huge difference.
Uberweiss
I’m not saying it is. You are the one trying to tell me that the Hawks winning percentage is better than half of the teams in the playoffs. That is simply untrue. Well, maybe it’s true of the playoff teams in the NFC. Also, it is kind of hard to compare the two. The AFC was so much tougher than the NFC. It has been for years. Look at the winning percentage of the teams the Steelers beat during that incredible run. The Bears, Vikings, Bengals, Colts, and Broncos. I would say those are some pretty impressive wins. Don’t you? If Seattle was in the AFC they wouldn’t have even made it to the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl.
Don Surber
“Holmgren, who didn’t exactly distinguish himself in the waning minutes of both halves … ”
He distinguished himself as a bonehead who lost the same game twice.
zzyzx
If the AFC is so much tougher than the NFC, how come their record in head to head games was 24-20?
No, I’m trying to say that the winning percentage of the teams the Hawks beat is better than the winning percentage of Patriots (.400), Bengals (.398), Jags (.375), and Bears (.398). Ok, so it’s not 1/2, it’s 1/3.
Only two teams really distinguished their record by beating teams with a good winning percentage – the Broncos (.471) and the Redskins (.500). Everyone else padded their record by beating up the bad teams.
(Source: http://www.nfl.com/standings/conference)
At any rate, this is kind of proving my point. You can throw out all of the evidence you want, but the convential wisdom of the 2005 season is going to be that the Hawks didn’t beat anyone and that the Steelers were benefited by the referees in the Superbowl.
I can understand why you’re frustrated by that, because I was amazed to see the mental gyrations needed to show how every team the Seahawks beat in the playoffs was amazing and would beat the Hawks before the game started and then was horrible and more proof of the weak schedule after the game ended. Like I said, sometimes you have to just be happy with what your team achieved and not worry about what people think about that; I’d rather be in the Superbowl with a “weak schedule” than have no one notice my schedule, but be knocked out in the first round of the playoffs despite some wacky calls going in our favor.
zzyzx
What did HOLMGREN do in the final two minutes of the first half. Hasselbeck is the one who deserves the blame for the audibles.
Uberweiss
This isn’t college football. The teams don’t get to choose who they want to play outside of their division.
I figured from the very beginning they would make it to the NFC Championship game and I figured that they would then lose to the Panthers, until Nick Goings went down. No matter what you believe you have to admit that if Carolina had any running game at all, which they didn’t, that game could have been a lot different. How hard was it for the Hawks to stop the pass when they didn’t have to worry about the run at all. But either way it’s not important anymore because it is in the past and they won and got to go to the Super Bowl. Just like the only thing that matters is that the Super Bowl is over and the Steelers walked away with the trophey.
By the way, how much did you end up losing on the Super Bowl? I lost a dollar because the Steelers won by more than 10.
zzyzx
Well yes, but how is that relevant to anything? All of the playoff teams – bar two – effectively made the playoffs by beating up the weak teams on their schedule and playing the good teams evenly.
I would argue though that Carolina’s lack of running game had a lot to do with Seattle’s run defense. Goings didn’t get injured until the Panthers’ 4th drive. It was already 10-0 Hawks at that point and Goings had the following rushes:
1st drive:
0 yards
2nd drive:
2 yards
-2 yards
3rd drive:
No attempt to run
4th drive:
2 yards
0 yards (injury)
The next two plays were passes, one was a first down on a penalty, the next was an int that lead to the score being 17-0. Maybe, maybe, the INT would have been a run, but the running game was going nowhere so that’s not that likely. I don’t see what Goings would have done to change things seeing how he was getting stuffed.
I didn’t lose a penny because I never will bet on or against my favorite team because I can’t be totally rational about them.
John Cole
If the argument is that the NFC is the weaker conference, you don;t prove anything by stating the winning percentage of Steelers and Seahawks opponents. That is largely irrelevant, as the majority of the eahawks opponents came from within the weaker NFC, and the majority of the Steelers opponents came in the weaker AFC.
What you need to compare are AFC v. NFC matchups and percentages that way. I am not going to run the stats, but I am sure someone else has.
FYI- the Steelers beat all four of their NFC opponents, the Seahawks beat three of their four AFC opponents.
Both teams lost to the Jaguars.
zzyzx
John – I refuse to believe that the conferences are that different. There’s no evidence for that; the main reason why it’s stuck in the heads of the public is that the AFC has won the past few Superbowls, but it’s not like they were big blowouts.
If there were that big of a difference in the conferences, you’d think that the poorer teams in the AFC would out perform their records when playing the NFC. That didn’t happen. The teams with a losing record went 9-19 against their NFC foes. The NFC teams with winning records did underperform against the AFC, largely due to the Skins going 0-4, so there’s some slight evidence there, but it’s far from overwhelming.
It’s hard for me to picture a conference that has Buffalo, the Jets, Tennessee, Oakland, and Houston in it being that much better.
Uberweiss
I couldn’t agree more.
zzyzx,
I thought a lot about it at lunch and I wanted to say that I was sorry. What I said and did to you is the same exact thing that a large portion of the nation is doing to Steelers fans by saying that the only reason the Steelers won was because of the refs. It’s very frustrating. The fact is that the Seahawks had a great year and did something that no other Seahawks team had done before. As a fan you should be very proud and happy that your team went as far as they did. If I were you I would be very frustrated as well.
With that said, I still believe that other than the Hasselbeck personal foul penalty, the refs called a correct game. Granted they were close calls but within the guidlines of the rule book they were correct calls. Even if I wasn’t a die hard Steeler fan I would say the same thing. Unless I was a Seahawks fan. I have been following football for as long as I remember and I know football probably better than anything else. Those really weren’t bad calls and I think the Steelers win either way. There was a lot of mistakes made in that game and I a lot more were made by the Hawks coaching staff and by their players than by the refs.
Also, if I were you I would be crossing my fingers that Alexander stays next year. One thing I don’t understand is how you could possibly leave a team that just went to the Super Bowl, and has as good a chance as anybody to go back, to go to a team like the Cardinals. It’s not like he is struggling to make ends meet. What are your thoughts on this?
zzyzx
Apology accepted :)
Uberweiss
For all of you who still think the Seahawks got hosed and lost only because of the “stupid/wrong” penalties, tell me which one and I will gladly explain to why they weren’t wrong and why they were called. Except for the Hasselback personal foul penalty. Although I understand why the ref called it, I think he should have let it go since he got to not only the blocker but to the ball carrier as well.
zzyzx
Uber – can you accept though that while the calls might have been technically correct, they were not worse than other technically correct fouls that weren’t called? It’s what happens when the rulebook and the game are allowed to vary.
Uberweiss
I would agree with you on that. I just don’t think the penalities were incorrect and the refs were out to get the Hawks. Take for example the infamous holding penalty. It was in fact a penalty. The thing about it is that there is holding on almost every single play. I agree if you are going to call it once you got to call it on every play. A lot of the time what happens is that the refs will let it go until it becomes very obvious. Or one guy is just doing it way to much so they call it. Or a coach or player complains about it so the refs will then be forced to call it. Do you know what I mean? The thing about that holding call in particular though, I just don’t understand how anybody can say that the only reason the refs called was to cancel out that play. The flag was thrown before they even completed the catch.
I absolutly think if the refs are going to call a penalty they should call it every time it happens. Of course with that you will get all those people who say “just let them go out and play” and then when the refs do that and a corner from the opposing team interfers with the wide-receiver on their team and they don’t call it, that person is screaming at the t.v. to throw the flag.
It doesn’t matter if the NFL hires the refs on full time or not, I don’t think it is going to make a difference. They will never be able to get it perfect.
No offense or anything but I am just getting so sick and tired of people saying that the refs cost the Seahawks the game. The only people that cost the Seahawks the game were in fact the Seahawks. Everybody can say they shouldn’t have called this or they shouldn’t have called that but the fact of the matter is they were in fact penalties and they did happen to call them.
Also, do me a favor; never listen to John Madden. He is a moron who never has any idea what is going on in the game. Kind of like the new guy on MNF, Joe Theisman.
Uberweiss
I just can’t believe that it is four days after the Super Bowl and everybody is still talking about this. There are problems with refs, there always have been and there always will be. When you leave these types of things up to humans then mistakes are going to be made, eventhough I don’t believe the calls in the Super Bowl were mistakes.
What are you thoughts on Alexander? Do you think he will be back in a Seahawks uniform next year? He is the key to your offense. I think Matt is awesome and I have always been a fan of his but without Alexander, Hasselback is going to struggle. He ends up taking a lot of pressure of Matt. Of course if he does leave they could always sign James from Indy. With what they are paying Manning, there is no way they are going to be able to afford him. I guess if they can’t afford Alexander then they are not going to be able to afford James.
Uberweiss
Also, it’s not like this only happened in the Super Bowl. It happens every single game every year. I think something needs to be done, I’m not sure what though.
zzyzx
I think Shawn will be back and Hutch will be given the Franchise tag.
Something has to be done to save football and soon. Not because the officiating in the Superbowl was worse than any other game, but because for the first time, people are starting to wonder if the games are on the level. That’s been plaguing basketball over the past few years. Remember when it was about to become the biggest sport?
Anyway, here’s my plan:
(1) Hire full time refs.
(2) Have NFL Europe also hire full time refs and use them as a training ground.
(3) Simplify the rule book and publish the damn thing [1]. No one – perhaps not even the refs – knows what is a completed pass anymore. We saw that with the Colts game fiasco. We’re seeing that in that no one knows if one foot in, one leg hits pylon is a catch or not [2]. What’s the point of that. We all should be able to see a catch and know if it was completed or not.
Think about it. Most sports have one designated “confusing” rule. In baseball, it’s the Infield Fly rule. In soccer, it’s offsides. However neither of them are 1/10 as confusing as describing what, technically, is a completed pass – one of the most common acts in the game. Get rid of the “football move” rule, get rid of everything.
A pass is completed when a receiver, after establishing control of the ball does one of the following without losing control –
(1) Gets both feet (or a knee or other body part) inbounds and then steps out of bounds.
(2) Falls to the ground inbounds.
(3) Takes two steps after making the catch.
Is that so hard? That seems to cover it.
[1] Yes, there’s an abridged version online and they sell a shortened version, but both say that the real rulebook supercedes those and you can’t get that.
[2] I’ve seen a lot of posts that say that logically it shouldn’t be the rule, but since when do logic and the NFL rulebook coincide?