Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The revolution will be supervised.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

“In the name of Zandar, I will fight the Stupid!”

House Speaker candidate unfamiliar with how to win non-gerrymandered election.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

This country desperately needs a functioning Fourth Estate.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

People are complicated. Love is not.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

You are here: Home / Politics / Religion / German Ban on Scientology

Reader Interactions

117Comments

  5. 5.

    LITBMueller

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? The number of followers? The annual income? The number of land holdings? How cool-looking the buildings are? When enough celebrities sign up and pay their tithe?

  6. 6.

    Krista

    E-zactly. Must have been a guy who came up with that idea. For size perspective, try pushing a walnut out of your peehole, and try not to make any noise.

  7. 7.

    4tehlulz

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway?

    I’ll go with “When you fear being sued into oblivion for criticizing them.” That seems to be the modern standard, anyway.

  9. 9.

    Bombadil

    E-zactly. Must have been a guy who came up with that idea. For size perspective, try pushing a walnut out of your peehole, and try not to make any noise.

    Great. Now I’m going to spend the next half hour trying to get my knees to work again.

  10. 10.

    Splitting Image

    Scientology isn’t a religion and won’t be until they allow Hubbard’s writings to go into the public domain and open them up to honest debate.

    I can disagree with a Christian all I want, but if he (or she) demonstrates that he’s read his holy book and can offer a reasonable explanation for why he interprets a passage the way he does, I have to respect his opinion.

    Until Scientologists do the same, I do not have to respect theirs. Score one for Germany.

  11. 11.

    myiq2xu

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway?

    When your group has been around at least 400 years and is too big to persecute with government assistance.

  13. 13.

    Zifnab

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? The number of followers? The annual income? The number of land holdings? How cool-looking the buildings are? When enough celebrities sign up and pay their tithe?

    Yup.

    I’m sorry, but church spokesmen tend to have a point when they claim that saying we’re all infected by space aliens from the planet Xeno is no more “crazy” or “unbelievable” than that we’re all imbued with ghostly bits of Jesus, and that claims of L. Ron Hubbard being a prophet and miracle worker are no less credible than claims aimed at Muhammad or Budda or Joseph Smith.

    It doesn’t make me want to join their religion any more than I’d want to join any of the others, but the claim is valid. Hopefully, between Mormonism and Scientology and the dozens of other baby cults that are growing up across the world, people will get to watch the evolution of religion from the beginning and get an idea for how such bastions of faith as Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity got started.

    Then, maybe we as a society can learn to kick the religious habit entirely, once we all realize exactly how ridiculous it all is.

  14. 14.

    akaoni

    Umm…am I the only one who read the linked article. The article (apparently written by a Scientologist) seems to state that Germany really hasn’t done anything.

    The Associated Press article, “Germany Officials Call For Scientology Ban” that ran in the Tribune Dec. 10 omits the fact that the German Ministers of Interior conference Dec. 7 did not vote for a motion to instigate procedures to ban Scientology.

    Instead, those officials recognized that there is no evidence to support such a motion. Furthermore, Federal Minister of Interior Wolfgang Schauble in an interview with German Radio, also on Dec. 7, conceded that there is no legal basis for such a procedure.

    The false report in those media statements stems from a story in the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag (and released internationally by the Associated Press) that mischaracterizes the result of the conference and omits the fact that there was no vote on the motion.

    So there was a false report of Scientology being banned, and this article is saying that German ministers are denying any action could even be taken under current law. Or am I misunderstanding this whole thread?

  15. 15.

    MikeL

    This measure will give Germany a reputation for being intolerant of bizarre mind control cults that are closer to organized crime than an actual religion. Claiming this is religious persecution is like when a mafioso tries to claim it’s just anti-Italian racism. Stop buying into the propaganda, and look at how they actually operate.

  16. 16.

    cleek

    from an outsider’s perspective, Scientology is only slightly less wacky than most officially-sanctioned religions. and the biggest reason it seems stranger at all is that i haven’t heard about Xenu and the volcano of souls my entire life: our currency doesn’t say “In Thetans We Trust”, and nobody swears oaths on a copy of Dianetics.

  17. 17.

    myiq2xu

    After I found out you’re not supposed to make any noise during childbirth, I say screw ‘em.

    I envy my dad. The men of his generation got to sit in a waiting room watching television waiting for a nurse to tell them if it was a boy or a girl.

    I had to watch that shit. It’s not a “beautiful experience.” It’s like watching “Alien” live and up close.

    They won’t let you drink beer either.

  18. 18.

    PaulW

    LITBMueller Says:

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? The number of followers? The annual income? The number of land holdings? How cool-looking the buildings are? When enough celebrities sign up and pay their tithe?

    None of the above.
    Answer: The number of high-priced lawyers and private investigators you can hire to harass and persecute IRS officials until they cave in and grant you tax-free status.

  19. 19.

    Jen

    Then, maybe we as a society can learn to kick the religious habit entirely, once we all realize exactly how ridiculous it all is.

    See, the problem with this line of thinking, to me, is that secularism/atheism/agnosticism etc. may have logic on its side, but that faith is not really responsive to logic. Have you ever tried to convince someone in love that the person they’re in love with is not good for them? Seems kind of like that to me.

  20. 20.

    Krista

    The men of his generation got to sit in a waiting room watching television waiting for a nurse to tell them if it was a boy or a girl.

    Yeah, too bad your mom didn’t have the same option, huh?

  21. 21.

    The Grandest Panjandrum

    E-zactly. Must have been a guy who came up with that idea. For size perspective, try pushing a walnut out of your peehole, and try not to make any noise.

    Great. Now I’m going to spend the next half hour trying to get my knees to work again.

    “Weaker sex.”
    “Weaker sex.”
    “Weaker sex.”
    “Weaker sex.”

    … Its not working. I’m cringing in agony over the thought of … well you know. I can’t even bring myself to type the words. But, I am cringing silently! Many, indeed.

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? The number of followers? The annual income? The number of land holdings? How cool-looking the buildings are? When enough celebrities sign up and pay their tithe?

    When they convince enough people that their current version of God really, really, really doesn’t require any empirical data because … just because! In other words, when they get better PR guys. Ostebsibly, Tom Cruise is not as good at PR as he is at being a movie star.

  22. 22.

    RSA

    Umm…am I the only one who read the linked article.

    No. . . I thought the same thing–what exactly has Germany done, officially? Nothing, apparently (despite their longstanding opposition to Scientology).

  23. 23.

    Kirk Spencer

    Michael D. – When the official mouthpiece of an organization writes a piece that says its organization is the good guy in any conflict, I demand confirmation. When I find it contains any blatant falsehood, I work under the assumption that the whole is mostly if not completely false — that the organization is more likely the bad guy.

    The article doesn’t lie directly, but by implication. It’s the paragraph about the 40 cases that have all gone their way. What they fail to mention are the many that went the opposite way – including the one where the government officially labeled them “not a religion”.

    Important note – Germany is not the US. In Germany a religion has specific definitions. Cult-like behavior also has some clear tests, largely developed as part of the nation’s attempt to never again see the rise of something like Nazism. Cults are not all religious.

    And this leads us to the second lie – that there have been no actions taken — no votes — to ban Scientology. (Read the referenced article again – part of the thrust is against the negative news reports, not Germany.) In actuality what the committee did do was request the results of investigations be brought to them so they could make a valid decision on the question of the ban.

    In other words, it’s been requested, there are indicators that under German law it’s necessary, and so evidence is requested so a decision can be made.

    Everything else is spin.

  24. 24.

    myiq2xu

    Yeah, too bad your mom didn’t have the same option, huh?

    Sorry, the waiting room is “men only.”

  26. 26.

    Robert Johnston

    Eh. Cloaking a basic and obvious pyramid scheme in pseudo-religious mumbo-jumbo doesn’t make it not a pyramid scheme. Scientology is all about the audit buy-in, so you can get to higher levels and start charging people at lower levels for auditing them, while sending money up the pyramid with higher level audits. It’s a classical, prototypical pyramid scheme. Religious tithes and seeking donations are one thing, but in scientology the paid “audit” is the “religion.” There’s little, if any, “religious” practice to scientology outside the bare bones of the pyramid scheme. I don’t know if there’s really going to be any sort of a crackdown on this in Germany, but I can’t fathom why it should be treated any differently than any other fraudulent pyramid scheme or con game.

  27. 27.

    Grand Moff Texan

    does Germany really want to be known for religious persecution?

    When they get around to persecuting an actual, you know, religion, let me know.

    Until then, Germany is perfectly free to prosecute organized crime.
    .

  29. 29.

    myiq2xu

    Lucky, lucky, Mrs. Myiq.

    I thought so too, but she disagreed, so now there is no Mrs. Myiq.

    The good news is, I’m available!

  30. 30.

    Sock Puppet of the Great Satan

    I envy my dad. The men of his generation got to sit in a waiting room watching television waiting for a nurse to tell them if it was a boy or a girl.

    I had to watch that shit. It’s not a “beautiful experience.” It’s like watching “Alien” live and up close.

    Yeah, but it’s mitigated by the fact the little alien ain’t tryign to get out of *you*.

    I used to have a serious case of womb envy, about how wonderful it must be to have a life growing inside you. Not any more, not after seeing my wife labour for 20 hours with no drugs ‘cos we wanted to do it the natural way and then have to get a Caesarian after all that agony.

    Thank God I have external plumbing.

  31. 31.

    The Other Steve

    Germany doesn’t have much choice. The Constitution we wrote for them bans any organization within the country intent on controlling things.

    Article 21/2. Parties which, by reason of their aims or the behavior of their adherents, seek or impair or destroy the free democratic basic order or to endanger the existence of the Federal Republic of Germany shall be unconstitutional. The Federal Constitutional Court decides on the question of unconstitutionality.

  32. 32.

    grumpy realist

    The only reason people in the US enshrine religion to the extent they do is that we started off with a bunch of religious fanatics (the Puritans etc.) and we’ve never really got over that. Anything that has “religion” attached to it somewhere has to be treated with mouth-gaping respect, no matter how much of a scam the whole system is.

    I think we should have the same qualifications for tax-exemption for churches as we do for REITs: if N% or more of the money collected gets paid out again for charity (and NOT in inflated salaries for the televangelist!), then the church gets to be tax-deductible. But all the finances have to be out in the open and all the numbers have to be revealed.

  35. 35.

    RSA

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway?

    I don’t know, but I think secrecy is part of why people call some organizations cultish. A friend once attended a Mormon wedding reception. She hadn’t been invited to the wedding, which was fine, so she asked the bride’s sisters what it was like. The sisters didn’t know either; they hadn’t been able to attend. Apparently, unless my friend got this wrong, the only people allowed to attend a Mormon wedding are those who have already been through the ceremony themselves. That strikes me as being overly concerned with ritual secrecy, the kind you might associate with a “secret society”. (I’d guess what’s being held secret is entirely mundane, nothing shocking, but that just makes me ask, “Then why?”)

  36. 36.

    Robert Johnston

    Scientology is not a religion. Like Mormonism, it is a cult.

    Cults are just a vaguely and nonuniformly defined subset of religion, so what you say makes no sense.

    However, like mormoninsm, scientology originated as an explicit con game. Unlike mormonism, it hasn’t changed to the point where there’s anything of significance to it beyond the basic con.

  37. 37.

    IanY77

    It’s not religious persecution if the group being persecuted is not actually a religion.

    /Glib slogans aside, any organization whose primary goal is moneymaking is not a religion. By that standard, Coca Cola and Microsoft are religions….wait for obligatory jokes about M$-heads and compulsive soda drinkers….are we done? Good.

  38. 38.

    caustics

    I think this was the original AP story:

    The interior ministers of the nation’s 16 states plan to give the nation’s domestic intelligence agency the task of preparing the necessary information to ban the organization, which has been under observation for a decade on allegations that it “threatens the peaceful democratic order” of the country.

    Scientology is classified as a business in Germany, and they are kind of touchy when it comes to “peaceful democratic order”.

  41. 41.

    libarbarian

    Scientology IS NOT a religion. This is not because of it’s “stupid” doctrines but because it is structured and run as a MONEY MAKING BUSINESS!

    L. Ron. Hubbard TOLD PEOPLE that he was going to invent a religion to get rich, YEARS before he came out with the “religion” of scientology – which is structured like a modern corporation and not like any church known to man.

  43. 43.

    Billy K

    /Glib slogans aside, any organization whose primary goal is moneymaking is not a religion. By that standard, Coca Cola and Microsoft are religions….wait for obligatory jokes about M$-heads and compulsive soda drinkers….are we done? Good.

    You’re being glib, but Apple IS a religion. Most Sons and Daughters of Jobs would gladly admit it.

    All glory to Jobs!

  44. 44.

    myiq2xu

    Scientology IS NOT a religion. This is not because of it’s “stupid” doctrines but because it is structured and run as a MONEY MAKING BUSINESS!

    Yeah, the Catholic church never made a dime.

  46. 46.

    canuckistani

    I’m with Germany on this one. Scientology is not just a cult, it is a scam, and as far as I can tell, probably a criminal scam as well. Thetans and e-meters indeed.

    Next, those fraudsters claiming that grape juice and a cookie is flesh and blood…

  47. 47.

    Dreggas

    LITBMueller Says:

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? The number of followers? The annual income? The number of land holdings? How cool-looking the buildings are? When enough celebrities sign up and pay their tithe?

    I believe there is a certain body count that has to be reached, along with several wars launched in the name of your religion.

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    This has been another edition of Michael D didn’t do his fucking research again before shooting his big mouth off.

  49. 49.

    Robert Johnston

    and, according to some, the basic con is still going strong in the LDS, too.

    Oh, I’ve no doubt of that. However, LDS is more than just the con. There’s “legitimate” religious frufruery separate from the con, religious practice that goes beyond handing money up the ladder. There’s a product–albeit a useless product, but that’s a very tricky judgment at best for the government to make–that’s being bought and supported, and piety isn’t measured solely by donation levels. Mormonism in its current form is Jimmy Swaggart; scientology is Nigerian e-mail. They’re both useless, but for legitimate historical reasons we treat them differently.

  50. 50.

    Bombadil

    This has been another edition of Michael D didn’t do his fucking research again before shooting his big mouth off.

    He’s getting pretty good at that, isn’t he?

  52. 52.

    Jen

    This has been another edition of Michael D didn’t do his fucking research again before shooting his big mouth off.

    Ever thought maybe it’s your own fault for sticking to the assigned topic? Just digress, problem solved!

  55. 55.

    Robert Johnston

    So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? The number of followers? The annual income? The number of land holdings? How cool-looking the buildings are? When enough celebrities sign up and pay their tithe?

    Personally, it’s none of these things that defines the cult subset of religion.

    Rather, the distinguishing factor is the degree of thought control and control over the daily lives of members. If your priest regularly tells you things like where you have to live, or where you have to send your children to school, or who you have to marry, or that you’re not allowed to communicate with outsiders, then you’re in a cult. If your priest just tells you that you’re a sinner who’s going to hell, then you’re a masochist with submission issues, but not a cultist.

  56. 56.

    Jen

    egress is the opposite of ingress

    Digress, regress, egress, ingress, or mix peach Lambic with champagne, at will.

  57. 57.

    tBone

    I had to watch that shit. It’s not a “beautiful experience.” It’s like watching “Alien” live and up close.

    Actually I thought it was an amazing experience.

    Then I went back and tried to watch the video a couple of weeks later. Big mistake.

  58. 58.

    demimondian

    Personally, tBone, I think the mistake was in recording the birth. Labor is something to experience and recall through the haze of exhaustion and hormones it induces, not something to record for posterity.

    Particularly since the posterity is the result of the labor in the first place, so it is its own record.

  59. 59.

    Dreggas

    tBone Says:

    I had to watch that shit. It’s not a “beautiful experience.” It’s like watching “Alien” live and up close.

    Actually I thought it was an amazing experience.

    Then I went back and tried to watch the video a couple of weeks later. Big mistake.

    I heard it was akin to watching a wet st. bernard come through the doggy door…

  61. 61.

    cleek

    egrets? they’re like little storks. which are spoons with notches cut into the end, so you can stab your applesauce before you scoop it. you can get them at Taco Bell, which, inexplicably doesn’t even serve applesauce. i blame Michael D’s negligence.

  62. 62.

    Dreggas

    cleek Says:

    egrets? they’re like little storks. which are spoons with notches cut into the end, so you can stab your applesauce before you scoop it. you can get them at Taco Bell, which, inexplicably doesn’t even serve applesauce. i blame Michael D’s negligence.

    That’s SPORK you numbskull! Don’t insult the greatness that is Spork!

  64. 64.

    MNPundit

    C’mon Scientology is not a religion! It’s just a pyramid scheme!

    I don’t have a problem discriminating against con artists.

  65. 65.

    Zifnab

    egrets? they’re like little storks. which are spoons with notches cut into the end, so you can stab your applesauce before you scoop it. you can get them at Taco Bell, which, inexplicably doesn’t even serve applesauce. i blame Michael D’s negligence the Fair Tax.

    Let’s give credit where credit is due.

    Also, totally OT.
    Going all Gordon Freeman

  68. 68.

    Andrew

    C’mon Catholicism is not a religion! It’s just a pyramid scheme!

    I don’t have a problem discriminating against con artists.

    I know, man! Have you seen those cathedrals? And that pope guy wear Prada and Gucci.

  69. 69.

    Jamey

    Sure, the article says that Germany is investigating Scientology, but does Michael D. REALLY want to be known for his ability to read a f*cking newspaper article and comment on it accurately?

  70. 70.

    Dreggas

    Andrew Says:

    C’mon Catholicism is not a religion! It’s just a pyramid scheme!

    I don’t have a problem discriminating against con artists.

    I know, man! Have you seen those cathedrals? And that pope guy wear Prada and Gucci.

    Wouldn’t that be a steeple scheme?

  71. 71.

    ThymeZone

    Not sure what the reality is here. It appears that the “ban” opens a complex topic up for discussion and possible policy vetting, but other than that … who cares?

    Scientology, as pointed out here and elsewhere, is not really a religion, it just wants to masquerade as one. So the churn WRT “religious persecution” is really inapt.

  72. 72.

    Bombadil

    Sure, the article says that Germany is investigating Scientology, but does Michael D. REALLY want to be known for his inability to read a f*cking newspaper article and comment on it accurately?

    Fixed.

  73. 73.

    myiq2xu

    Sorry, sometimes I forget not everyone worships the Spork!

    I tried to eat soup with a knoon and cut my lip.

  74. 74.

    Pb

    Obligatory (actual) Michael D. responses:

    LOL! You have no idea what you’re talking about.

    You never cease to amuse me.

    Oh fucking please. You guys made up your mind not about me when I told you I was a Republican.

    I don’t feel my credibility depends on the opinions of the commenters here. I like you guys, but you overestimate how much credit you should get for judging the credibility of others.

    Just because you are either unemployed or have ample time at work to post all day in the comments, does not mean I do. I actually work. Sorry if I actualy have fun at work and would rather be doing that and not posting here. Idiot.

    for the last two hours, my coworkers and I (most of them lefties, by the way) have been laughing our asses off about how easy it was to get the commentariat here all in a twist

    Are you jumping up and down, stomping your feet, and screaming?? Are you going to hold your breath till I change my mind?

    who needs facts!? You can get all those from Randy Rhodes! LOL!

    Yeah. Fuck that guy. “LOL”.

  76. 76.

    Psycheout

    Much like the last Mike D. thread, this is another lazy blogger post.

    Template:

    I found an interesting post today. Here’s the link.

    I despise that kind of lazy blogging. Add some useful commentary, include a relevant excerpt, or a least provide a reliable summary of what can be found at the link.

    This reads much like the spam comments we get over at B4B & B4C. The difference is that we delete those comments. We don’t host them on the front page.

  78. 78.

    The Other Steve

    You’re being glib, but Apple IS a religion. Most Sons and Daughters of Jobs would gladly admit it.

    All glory to Jobs!

    All hail Steve! All hail Steve!

    I just like the sound of it. :-)

  80. 80.

    tBone

    Personally, tBone, I think the mistake was in recording the birth. Labor is something to experience and recall through the haze of exhaustion and hormones it induces, not something to record for posterity.

    The second birth wasn’t recorded. We do learn from our mistakes. :)

  81. 81.

    ThymeZone

    Much like the last Mike D. thread, this is another lazy blogger post.

    Look, the fact is that it will take at least two seasons to really understand Michael D.

    Patience, patience.

  84. 84.

    MikeL

    Psycheout, you complaining about lazy blogging, to Michael D or anyone else, is like Dick Cheney giving lectures about gun safety and good hunting practices.

  86. 86.

    ThymeZone

    like Dick Cheney giving lectures about gun safety and good hunting practices.

    No, cute rhetoric, but wrong. Gun safety and good hunting practices exist with or without Dick Cheney’s complaints.

    Same thing applies here. There is lazy blogging. You can argue that MD does it, or not, but that’s another topic and its existence isn’t impacted much by who complains about it.

  90. 90.

    caustics

    I despise that kind of lazy blogging. Add some useful commentary, include a relevant excerpt, or a least provide a reliable summary of what can be found at the link.

    Indeed Psycheout. He should take as an example your hard-hitting exposé on furries, which was sort of funny the first eighteen times that Something Awful did it.

    But hey, good luck to you in trying to subvert that whole wingnut welfare thing.

  94. 94.

    Psycheout

    Caustics, I wasn’t aware that Something Awful had done it. If you’d like to provide a link to an in-depth article they did on the furry perverts, I’d be interested in seeing one of the 18. Seriously. Perhaps I missed something.

    I wrote my article separate from anything done anywhere else. Those were my words, not someone else’s. Like it or not, at least I tried.

    If I were Mike D. I’d have said:

    Here’s an interesting article about furries [link]. LOL!

    Now, that would have been lazy.

  95. 95.

    The Raven

    The CoS has a horrific history of various sorts of crime, mostly fraud, but also including some truly horrific things. It’s not surprising that the Germans want to ban them. See, in particular, http://www.clambake.org.

    Caw! Caw! Caw!

  96. 96.

    caustics

    Caustics, I wasn’t aware that Something Awful had done it. If you’d like to provide a link to an in-depth article they did on the furry perverts, I’d be interested in seeing one of the 18. Seriously. Perhaps I missed something.

    9,610 hits. Knock yourself out. I’m feeling lazy.

  100. 100.

    Tsulagi

    E-zactly. Must have been a guy who came up with that idea. For size perspective, try pushing a walnut out of your peehole, and try not to make any noise.

    Oh, my wife envisioned far worse for me. Both of our kids were born weighing more than 10 lbs. And she’s a tiny 5’3.

    We ever get in a labor room again, I’m not going in with less than full body armor. I’d also want to bring in and wear ear muffs, but she’d get out of that bed and beat me with them.

  102. 102.

    DR

    Whoa whoa whoa…. “Religious”??? “Persecution”???

    The Church of Scientology is NOT a religion. Not in any meaningful sense; even they don’t really believe they are. I was in the Church for 1 day (long story). On my desk was a sign stating (not exactly verbatim, it was a long time ago, but it’s close):

    “The first goal of the Church is to sell its products”.

    That says it all.

  103. 103.

    Jon H

    “For size perspective, try pushing a walnut out of your peehole, and try not to make any noise.”

    My dad did basically that. Crazed with pain after a prostate procedure, he pulled a catheter out without deflating the golfball-sized balloon that I assume sits in the bladder and holds the catheter in place.

    He wasn’t silent.

  104. 104.

    Jon H

    “We ever get in a labor room again, I’m not going in with less than full body armor. I’d also want to bring in and wear ear muffs, but she’d get out of that bed and beat me with them.”

    Apparently there was an old Russian folk magic practice, where during labor the father would lie on a platform above the mother, and whenever the mother had a labor pain, the midwife would give a sharp tug on a cord tied to the father’s junk.

  105. 105.

    Jon H

    “So, what is it that triggers the change from “cult status” to “religion,” anyway? ”

    When the head of the religion doesn’t live on a converted cruise ship that stays in international waters.

  107. 107.

    ThymeZone

    In 1967, L. Ron Hubbard further distanced himself from the controversy attached to Scientology by resigning as executive director of the church and appointing himself “Commodore” of a small fleet of Scientologist-crewed ships that spent the next eight years cruising the Mediterranean Sea. Here, Hubbard formed the religious order known as the “Sea Organization” or “Sea Org,” with titles and uniforms. The Sea Org subsequently became the management group within Hubbard’s Scientology empire.

    He was attended by “Commodore’s Messengers,” teenage girls dressed in white hot pants who waited on him hand and foot, bathing and dressing him and even catching the ash from his cigarettes.[10] He had frequent screaming tantrums and instituted brutal punishments such as incarceration in the ship’s filthy chain-locker for days or weeks at a time and “overboarding,” in which errant crew members were blindfolded, bound and thrown overboard, dropping up to 40 ft. into the cold sea,[10] hoping not to hit the side of the ship with its sharp barnacles on the way down.[10][79] Some of these punishments, such as imprisonment in the chain-locker, were applied to children as well as to adults.[10] A letter[80] Hubbard wrote to his third wife, Mary Sue, when he was in Las Palmas around 1967: “I’m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys…”. The author of an unauthorized Hubbard biography also says that “John McMasters told me that on the flagship Apollo in the late sixties he witnessed Hubbard’s drug supply. ‘It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!'”. This was confirmed by Gerald Armstrong through Virginia Downsborough who said in 1967 he returned to Las Palmas totally debilitated from drugs.[81]

    “ We found him a hotel in Las Palmas and the next day I went back to see if he was all right, because he did not seem to be too well. When I went in to his room, there were drugs of all kinds everywhere. He seemed to be taking about sixty thousand different pills. I was appalled, particularly after listening to all his tirades against drugs and the medical profession. There was something very wrong with him… My main concern was to try and get him off all the pills he was on and persuade him that there was still plenty for him to do.

    Heh. Today this crazy fuck could probably get him nominated by the GOP as a presidential candidate.

  108. 108.

    AlanDownunder

    If Scientology is a religion, so is the GOP and every other pernicious secretive irrational organisation headed by manipulators and constituted by hangers on, marks and loonies.

  109. 109.

    lethargytartare

    See, the problem with this line of thinking, to me, is that secularism/atheism/agnosticism etc. may have logic on its side, but that faith is not really responsive to logic.

    OTOH, the infinite increase in the number of atheists in the world over time gives me hope that the asymptote of reason will continue to curve…

  110. 110.

    bernarda

    scientology is as much a religion as the Mafia or the Cosa Nostra. Why not legalize those too?

    Banning criminal activity is not persecuting religion. Granted many religions engage in criminal activity too, and those activities should be prosecuted too.

  111. 111.

    Sky

    I really hopee they do ban them. The earlier post’s comparison to the Mafia is well-deserved, and the most accurate and illustrative metaphor I can think of.

    For anyone with any lingering doubts as to what Scientology is, read what they did (and tried to do) to a young woman who had the temerity to attempt to exercise her freedom of speech and conscience:

    http://xenu.net/archive/personal_story/paulette_cooper/

    The German’s motive for banning them is not because they are crackpots – it is because they are a criminal organisation which actively seeks to seriously harm anyone they dislike.

  113. 113.

    MNPundit

    Andrew Says:

    C’mon Catholicism is not a religion! It’s just a pyramid scheme!

    I don’t have a problem discriminating against con artists.

    I know, man! Have you seen those cathedrals? And that pope guy wear Prada and Gucci.

    Totally waiting for that response, but I’ll thank you not to blockquote me when you’re being disingenuous.

    It costs nothing to be Catholic (or Christian) except the price of a bible and you can often get those for free. Unless you pay for the necessary sessions in Scientology you don’t progress.

  115. 115.

    AF

    Since the author is public affairs director of the Church of Scientology, I’m not even sure this qualifies as “a newspaper article” — I’d call it something more like “a press release that a newspaper printed.”

    Also given that the author is an official representative of the Church of Scientology, I would take each and every claim in the press release with a grain of salt — Scientologists tend to believe that they have the big-T TRUTH and therefore it’s okay if they skimp a bit on the small-t truth.

    Example: Scientology, trying to paint themselves as victims of religious persecution in Germany, tells of a teacher who was fired from her job after it was learned she was a Scientologist. The truth: She was not fired for being a Scientologist, but for distributing Scientology literature to her students on 12 occasions, including after reprimands for having done it before.

    Another example: Antje Victore, a Scientologist, becomes the only German to receive asylum in the United States on the grounds of persecution on basis of religion. The evidence Victore provides of this persecution is a series of letters from Germany company executives listing Victore’s Scientology affiliation as the reason they cannot hire her. The truth: Victore was following a strategy devised for her by Kurt Weiland, head of Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs. Each and every one of those letters was written by a Scientologist. Victore had not submitted an application to a single one of those companies; instead she specifically requested that they write rejection letters — in English — that portrayed her Scientology membership as the reason why they “could not” employ her. She even sent them letters to use as models.

  116. 116.

    Birdzilla

    Sceintology is as wacky and bad as SECULAR HUMANISM and the GAIA worshipers their a dangeruous cult and only a wacko has anything to do with this scientology poppycock bull poo

  117. 117.

    Plowhandle

    Their cult KILLS and Lies.

    Go to http://www.xenu.net and read for yourselves.

    Teeny Tom Cruise is a liar and a dyslexic manipulator…and Vinnie Barbarino is still a poofter and a fraud, doing Vegas chorusbois two at a time.

    Kelli Preston is an ill-fitting beard supplied by $cientology, inc.

    Check it out, people.

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