James Carville is now calling Obama the likely winner:
Speaking to students at Furman University in Greenville, South Carolina, Carville argued Clinton should stay in through the final nominating contest in early June, but said the Democratic tide appears to be moving in Obama’s direction.
“I still hear some dogs barking,” Carville said, according to The State newspaper. “I’m for Senator Clinton, but I think the great likelihood is that Obama will be the nominee.”
“As soon as I determine when that is, I’ll send him a check,” he added.
Carville has been, and continues to be, one of Clinton’s staunchest supporters. Until now, he has not wavered. It’s great that, now that he has, he follows it up by telling us he’ll be right there with Obama when the nominating process is complete. That’s a lot classier than we can expect from a lot of her supporters.
TR
There’s still a chance he’ll make his donation as thirty pieces of silver. I’m believe the comity when I see it.
TR
There’s still a chance he’ll make his donation as thirty pieces of silver. I’ll believe the comity when I see it.
TR
Dammit, thought I caught that in time.
Jen
Man, Carville’s a Judas, too?
(I know, it wasn’t classy. He isn’t particularly, either, though.)
4tehlulz
JUDAS! JUDAS!
/TalkLeft
null pointer exception
Call me a cynic, but I think Carville and other Clinton loyalists will try to sabotage Obama’s run. Unless Obama loses in November, Clinton has no chance of ever becoming the President.
r€nato
The Hillary supporters will come on board. I’ve never doubted that, just like I never doubted that evangelicals would suck it up and vote for McCain rather than piss away their votes on a fundie 3rd party candidate, despite Dobson’s bluster from ~ 1 year ago.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Carville was later found slumped over a cannon at Fort Sumter, thirty pieces of silver at his side and a knife in his back pinning a note saying ‘SIC SEMPER OBOTS!’
joe
What Renato said. Of course they’ll come home, just like the McCain2000 voters came home.
Just like those people, the Clinton supporters really did mean it when they said they’d stay home or switch sides if the other guy got the nomination, and just like those people, they are changing their minds as the reality of a Democratic-Republican contest hits home.
What I’m looking forward to is Hillary Clinton returning to Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia, where the Republicans spent two months building her up as the friend of the working man, to campaign for Obama in the summer and fall.
“John McCain would be a disaster for you. He is out of touch with your values, and with the challenges you face.”
Garrigus Carraig
That’s a lot classier than we can expect from him.
zzyzx
This is great news that things are calming down.
I actually have a theory about WV. I think Obama is kind of throwing the state. He could have gone in there, campaigned non-stop, run ads 24-7, and forced Clinton to spend a lot more money that she doesn’t have. She still would have won but it would have been a bit closer. Instead, she’s waltzing to an easy victory and there’s been little stress about it. Now that 1 or 2 delegates don’t matter that much, why not let Clinton feel good about the states she’s winning in the name of party unity?
Jake
I seriously doubt this is Obama’s calculus. A blowout Clinton victory in WV doesn’t do a whole heck of a lot for party unity. It just reinforces the meme that Obama can’t win the poor whitey vote.
I think he punted to manage expectations. Full stop. You’ve got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em, know when to walk away, and know when to run.
Ed in NJ
More likely, Obama’s campaign felt that a hard-fought 20 pt. loss would look alot worse than a 30-pt. concession.
Either way you look at it, WV becomes less and less relevent with each passing days, as supporters like Carville aren’t trumpeting any special meaning to her assumed victory there and in Kentucky.
TheFountainHead
I hate to say this, but while Carville is a bit of a slimebag, he’s still a Democratic slimebag.
calipygian
Gollum: They didn’t vote for us. Bush lover for voting for the Iraq War they called us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we only wish to
catch fish so juicy sweetseize the reins of power in the White House. And we forgot the taste of bread… the sound of trees… the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.Jake
I used to like him, back in the early Clinton days.
However, even when he’s advocating on behalf of Democrats (and not necessarily the Clintons), it’s tough to listen to him and not recognize the reams of BS spewing out of his mouth. He can give and take with the best of them, and I love it that he actually got Novak to get up and walk off the set of one of the shows (when they were discussing Plame). But he’s still mostly giving and taking BS.
Mutaman
“That’s a lot classier than we can expect from a lot of her supporters.”
You’re right about that. Good luck trying to get my vote in November. And it’ll be because of assholes like you making statements like this.
Rick Taylor
Every time he campaigns heavily in a state and looses, Hillary’s supporters turn it into a weapon against him; if he was outspending Clinton by such a huge ratio and lost, it means really bad things for the general, there’s a problem.
I thought he’d campaign more heavily there because of the popular vote. Clinton still may be able to claim victory in her discount-caucus-states-count-Michigan-and-Florida version of it, and say she ought to be the nominee because of it.
Jen
Y’know, I’m stealing from Atrios, but: no one gives a shit who you’re voting for. If you’re basing your voting decisions based on the tone of Balloon Freakin’ Juice, then you need to take remedial shoe tying.
MNPundit
True that, Jerome is basically calling it the worst possible outcome. What I don’t get is how he thought Warner would be a map changer and then switched to…. Clinton?
On Carville: Ever since ‘Our Brand is Chaos’ I have not liked the man.
protected static
A perception that should be balanced by convincing Obama wins in OR and SD. Dunno about MT, but he won by 20+% margins in all the surrounding states, so I’m guessing that’ll be 3 big wins in rural, white states before this is all over.
zzyzx
…and it says a lot about how much Obama fears SDs buying into it that he just doesn’t seem to care about shoring up his WV base.
Obama has struck me as a strategic genius in this contest. This is the first time he’s let a state go by like this, so I think it is a strategy.
protected static
That should have been ‘3 more big wins.’
Mutaman
‘Y’know, I’m stealing from Atrios, but: no one gives a shit who you’re voting for.”
You’ll give a shit when you won’t even be able to carry New Jersy, Mutherfucker.
Zifnab
I think James Carville and Robert Novak deserve each other. I also think they should go off to some private island and leave everyone else the hell alone.
They’re political operatives who sacrificed any sort of serious ideology or platform on the alter of “WIN”. They’d be rather pathetic in the grand scheme of things if they weren’t getting paid in large truck loads of cash.
Carville and Begala were more than willing to trash the grassroots Dems and the liberal wing of the liberal party for a generation. They bring the same poison to the Democratic Party that Rovian 50% + 1 politics brought to the Republicans. I won’t feel sorry to see them loss prestige as their favorite candidates die off.
TheFountainHead
Concern troll is concerned.
And taking it personally, it seems.
kwAwk
null pointer exception Says:
Call me a cynic, but I think Carville and other Clinton loyalists will try to sabotage Obama’s run. Unless Obama loses in November, Clinton has no chance of ever becoming the President.
___________________
I think Carville and other Clinton loyalists should just go ahead and do it. We’re going to get blamed either way when Obama falls flat on his face, so why not have the fun if you’re going to take the blame?
___________________
Doug H. (Fausto no more) Says:
Carville was later found slumped over a cannon at Fort Sumter, thirty pieces of silver at his side and a knife in his back pinning a note saying ‘SIC SEMPER OBOTS!’
_________________________
At first I had thought this was a botched Vince Foster joke, but on further examination it appears to be comparing the Clinton campaign to the South in the Civil War.
Yep. Obots have cornered the market on class. *insert eyeroll here*
cleek
are you old enough to vote ?
Jen
I hope so. I’ve had nearly 8 years of Bush, I have lost all patience with people incapable of empirical thinking and I’m going to be as rude to them as I possibly can. And I don’t give a flying fuck about New Jersey, everybody there with any sense has already moved down here already.
area man
You would seriously vote for Grampa Monster in 2008 because people said mean things on blogs? Call the Whaaaaambulance!
jamfan
To anyone who is trolly concerned about New Jersey, both Clinton and Obama lead McCain in current polling, though Obama by a bigger margin. Clearly, I don’t know how to do links, but the article on the poll is here:
northjersey.com/news/elections/McCain_trails_both_Obama_Clinton_in_NJ.html
Incertus
Am I alone in thinking that Carville is angling for a paycheck come the general campaign? That’s the only way this statement makes sense to me–try to hook into some of that fat general election money.
Jen
“Jersy” and “muther” — maybe there’s an Introduction to Remedial Shoe Tying, actually.
TheFountainHead
Hey, wow, Jen just wrote my new motto!
kwAwk
area man Says:
You’ll give a shit when you won’t even be able to carry New Jersy, Mutherfucker.
You would seriously vote for Grampa Monster in 2008 because people said mean things on blogs? Call the Whaaaaambulance!
________________________
Are you guys so arrogant as to not realize how poorly you present your candidate?
Well, to paraphrase Ann Richards, ‘It’s the arrogance, stupid’.
over_educated
ZOMG!!! Somebody used an analogy!!!!!
I will wait with baited breath for the incoming analysis of how this Civil War Analogy is clearly sexist.
TheFountainHead
How is saying, “Which would you like to eat, the Shit Sandwich or the Filet Mignon?” and expressing incredulity when they say they’re going to pick the Shit Sandwich arrogance?
How?
kwAwk
Jen Says:
Concern troll is concerned.
And taking it personally, it seems.
I hope so. I’ve had nearly 8 years of Bush, I have lost all patience with people incapable of empirical thinking and I’m going to be as rude to them as I possibly can. And I don’t give a flying fuck about New Jersey, everybody there with any sense has already moved down here already.
__________________
Hmmm…. I have to ask. Empirical thinking ehh? So the rational response to having a President with little to no experience or accomplishment is to vote for a person with even less experience and accomplishment?
Gotta love wingnut logic.
over_educated
Ow, the irony, IT BURNS!
grandpajohn
Not really since the rest of us here are not living in your alternate universe
bernarda
“That’s a lot classier than we can expect from a lot of her supporters.”
As if a lot of Obama Balloon Juice supporters have shown some class.
4tehlulz
10/10. Quality trolling.
TheFountainHead
I’m sorry, if he’s so inexperienced and unaccomplished, why is she losing to him by every metric proposed for the race thus far? This is the lamest argument we’ve gotten around here in a while, I think.
area man
I don’t ‘present’ anything here but myself, friend. If you want to ensure Bush’s third term because some people were mean to your candidate on the bad old internets, well, I would urge you to think hard about the wisdom of that.
I have no doubt Clinton’s campaign will be urging party unity when this thing settles (witness Carville’s comments). Will that do it for you? By all means flail away at your imagined enemies and scold away, but I urge you to remember what really matters come November.
Foxhunter
Speaking of classy, I had a hard time loading this URL from my hometown fish wrap:
Curious George
Now I know why…it’s turned into a Drudge-linked orgy because some folks think its teh funny to associate B.O. with monkeys. You stay classy, America!
I can’t wait to vote for him in November, but how many years of this bullshit will we have to endure while he is CinC? Like John says….the blog season come election time should be feature rich.
RareSanity
Where the hell have you been the past several months? Have you heard the venom that has spewed from the Clinton campaign? All topped off with a delicious layer of “I should be the nominee because I’m not black.”
Now, Clinton supporters want to be the campaign police…go look in the mirror, take your medicine for what you have supported up to now and move on.
kwAwk
TheFountainHead Says:
Well, to paraphrase Ann Richards, ‘It’s the arrogance, stupid’.
How is saying, “Which would you like to eat, the Shit Sandwich or the Filet Mignon?” and expressing incredulity when they say they’re going to pick the Shit Sandwich arrogance?
How?
____________________
Very simple. The Shit Sandwich vs Filet Mignon comparison is simply your opinion. One could very easily make an arguement that the filet mignon you are speaking of is so rare as to be untouched by the heat of experience and accomplishment.
Shit sandwich or plate of raw meat.
Mutaman
“You would seriously vote for Grampa Monster in 2008 because people said mean things on blogs? Call the Whaaaaambulance!”
Na, we’ll just stay home. Because after the last few months its clear that you white punks on dope aren’t that much different than the morons who have been running things for the last 8 years. And certainly not any classier.
SamFromUtah
So the rational response to having a President with little to no experience or accomplishment is to vote for a person with even less experience and accomplishment?
Hoo boy, Obama = Bush now. I think the problem with Bush was not so much a lack of accomplishment so much as that the accomplishment consisted of running companies into the ground and executing people.
No really, this is a seriously transparent false equivalence.
cleek
fine, don’t vote for us.
area man
That is an excellent question and one that I’ve seen posed many times in many different places these last few months. Never seen a Clinton supporter answer it, but I keep hoping. That’s right, I’m filled with HOPE!
Mutaman
“Have you heard the venom that has spewed from the Clinton campaign? All topped off with a delicious layer of “I should be the nominee because I’m not black.”
I’ll bet my nestegg that Raresanity is a white person.
4tehlulz
HAHA OH WOW
TheFountainHead
Well, some people like their meat that way, but I’d still rather have a plate of raw meat (Obama tartar) than a Feces Fajita.
Not to mention that the whole premise of your argument is utterly fabricated and ridiculous.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
If you’re willing to forfeit the lives of Iranians and American soldiers because someone on the Internet said something mean, then maybe voting in Presidential elections is not for you.
kwAwk
TheFountainHead Says:
Hmmm…. I have to ask. Empirical thinking ehh? So the rational response to having a President with little to no experience or accomplishment is to vote for a person with even less experience and accomplishment?
Gotta love wingnut logic.
I’m sorry, if he’s so inexperienced and unaccomplished, why is she losing to him by every metric proposed for the race thus far? This is the lamest argument we’ve gotten around here in a while, I think.
__________________________
Take out that racist 85% of the black vote and Obama is losing by mile. Take the black vote down to 65% to 35% the result that like we are likely to see from that oh so racist West Virgina and Obama is behind in the popular vote by 1+ Million and behind in the delegates by a couple hundred.
You guys need to get it through your heads. You aren’t going to win the Presidency by simply calling everyboyd who doesn’t vote for him racist. If this rhetoric is tiring so many of us in the Democratic party already, you can bet moderates and independents will be disgusted by the time November rolls around.
RareSanity
Wrong…black guy, college educated from the southside of Atlanta.
Would you like my bank account number to wire your nestegg to? There’s a pack of gum at the store with my name on it…
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
No, just tying in Vince Foster, Judas, and Carville being in South Carolina instead of Fort Whereever that Foster was found in.
Also not a dig on the Clinton campaign itself but on certain humor and reality impaired supporters who think ‘Obot’ is quality namecalling. Hint, hint.
4tehlulz
LOL. Can’t trust them Negroes with the vote.
Take your sorry ass back to Stormfront, McCain lover.
AkaDad
Carville is a modern day Judas. If Obama is elected, he’s going to let Hamas to set up camp in West Virginia.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Quoted for truth.
Carville and the other political condottieri like him are gallstones in the bowels of our democracy. It may hurt like a M***F***R, but it is time well past due for us to piss him out of our system.
over_educated
Concern troll is not only concerned, he is fundamentally wrong.
Polls currently show Obama beating McCain by a rather large margin:
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051201073.html?hpid=topnews
More than Hillary. Please provide empirical evidence for your point, and perhaps we will take you more seriously.
SamFromUtah
Take out that racist 85% of the black vote and Obama is losing by mile.
Just so you all can see this again and marvel at it.
Is there a plan to “take out” that 85% of the black vote? I sure hope not.
Foxhunter
No, take out that 85% of the black vote and we are ALL losing by a mile.
w vincentz
OK…I read the thread.
Calm down folks. Deep breath.
Sure, Carville is a slime. And what he called Richardson is vomit worthy.
One thing that can’t be denied about baldy is that he dishes shit with the best of ’em. Who wouldn’t if you were married to something that looks like she came off the pages of “Tales from the Crypt”?
So, in my humble view, if he wants to come over to the Obama campaign, perhaps bring some Hillbots with him, and even get some checks out of the deal, heck, let him.
He can play the “talk shit back” role when the really ugly stuff starts coming out of the McSame campaign and allow Barack to stay above the fray to address issues that count.
Name callers are always in demand, just that you need to know how to use ’em.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Dem darkies, why dey jus’ follow along wit’ one of der own, don’t dey? Just ask Reveren’ Jackson and Reveren’ Sharpton… Oh. Wait.
TheFountainHead
Wow, this is epic.
So the fact that black people are voting for a black man is racist?
I’m confused.
kwAwk
LOL Here’s a thought. How about we just hold Blacks to the same standard as everybody else? You judge a candidate by the content of their character not the color of their skin.
West Virginia white vote goes to Clinton 65:35 and they are oh so racist, but blacks vote for Obama 91:7 and it isn’t racist.
What’s the matter guys? Afraid to talk about the truth?
Fee Waybill
We’re white punks on dope
Mom & Dad moved to Hollywood
Hang myself when I get enough rope
Can’t clean up, though I know I should
demimondian
[shrug] OK, well, that’s your choice. Like other folks have said, concern troll is concerned, and we’re sorry, but that’s really concern troll’s problem, not ours.
“But wait,” you say, “Demi, haven’t you been vociferous about being gentle with Hillary supporters? What are you doing?”
This clown doesn’t support Hillary and what she stands for, or he wouldn’t be talking this way. That’s Carville’s point. That’s been the point that all the Clinton campaign people have been making: Clinton stands for a lot of things, and, at the end of the day, we stand for *the same things*. That’s why we’re Democrats. Individual liberty? Check. Right to control your own body, in life and death? Check. Education, opportunity, and equality before the law? Check. Above all, a belief in laws above the men or women? Check.
Do we always agree on what those phrases mean? Hell, no! That’s why we’re Democrats — we loves us some circular firing squad. But we mostly agree on what they mean, and we understand that. And Hillary Clinton, warts and all, is as much a part of that village of idiots as any of us is — and anyone who ignores that isn’t really a supporter of hers, but an opponent of what she stands for.
Svensker
Where did this infestation come from? Rats from the sinking ship HMS Hillary?
Hopefully, all this crapola will calm down in the next few months. But the level of rancor really surprises me. I mean, I worked my butt off for Kerry in 2004 and he was a SHITTY candidate, but he had two important attributes: he was not a Republican and he was not insane. Will diehard Hill supporters really be so self-absorbed as to try to get McCain elected because their feelings are hurt?
4tehlulz
Especially when, you know, they voted for white people before, and OOOPS were supporting Clinton 60/40 until she started to go crazy.
And Jesse Jackson totally owned the party in….no he didn’t.
By your standards, they are racist, since we would be treating them equally.
Dennis - SGMM
It was the experienced people with the fat resumes, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, among others who encouraged, aided and abetted the Worst President Ever® in wrecking the country. Genghis Khan, Josef Stalin and Hirohito were pretty experienced as well but I wouldn’t want any of them as president either.
libarbarian
Whats with all this picking on Judas?
The history of Christianity would have been much different if Jesus had
died horribly on the crosslived a long, healthy, and happy life for your sins.The Moar You Know
Mutaman is my new hero. Misspelling “New Jersey” is a feat few can accomplish in this lifetime.
Oh yeah, my original point before MutaTard came in and dropped the dramabomb: Carville. His face. What happened? Infant accident or selective breeding program (like for Persian cats)?
It ain’t right.
merrinc
Okay, who was complaining last week about needing some Hillbots to replace myeyeq and peeluk?
TheFountainHead
Yeah, never mind the fact that 90%+ of the black vote has gone to white men since, oh, I dunno, they’ve had a vote??
libarbarian
Did you REALLY miss the irony in this?
Davebo
But calling any black person that voted for Obama a racist is just peachy keen?
Does you’re mother realize she raised an idiot?
ThymeZone
Okay, does that mean we turn our backs while they lynch whites for a hundred years or so?
Then we’ll all be even.
Incertus
First of all, the fact that WV white Democratic voters are likely to go 65-35 for Clinton does not necessarily mean that they’re all racist–nor is anyone I know of making that claim, especially not Sen. Obama. Are there racist white Dems in WV? Sure–the WaPo article this morning showed plenty of anecdotal evidence that at least some exist. But there are plenty of reasons other than race to support Sen. Clinton, and I suspect the majority of those WV Dems who will vote for her today are doing so for some reason other than race.
The reverse is also true–there are no doubt many African-Americans who are voting for Obama based on his skin color, just as there are many white women who voted for Clinton based on her gender. But that’s not racism. Racism involves treating someone as less than human because of their skin color. How support for one’s own race, especially given the historic nature of his candidacy, is racism is beyond me.
Kevin
So, I take it you’re a McCain supporter?
TheFountainHead
I hope John saves this thread in its entirety for posterity.
zoe from pittsburgh
To all of Hillary’s supporters who say they are staying home in November– if MORE WARS in the Middle East and a totally right-wing SCOTUS doesn’t keep you awake at night you need to think harder about why you call yourself a Democrat at all. Seriously.
Or do you not realize that the next POTUS will likely nominate the next 2-3 Supremes? Do you have ANY GODDAMN IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY???
Imagine a SCOTUS overrun completely by SEVERAL 50-year old Scalia-wannabees. Between that and McCain’s shameless warmongering even if Clinton outright stole the nom from Obama right now I’d STILL vote for her in the fall. Why? Sometimes there are things bigger than your personal hurt feelings, you know? Who cares if you’ve run into some rude or obnoxious Obama supporters, are you really that self-centered and petty?
Get a fucking grip and grow the hell up.
Jen
Introduction to Remedial Shoe-Tying is filling up fast. Send your tuition today in the form of a money order made out for $300 more than the cost of the class and I will totally send you back your change.
jrg
You do realize you’re attacking the Democratic nominee, right?
I agree. As soon as Clinton stops claiming that the fact that her supporters ARE racist gives her the right to the nomination, Obama supporters should stop, too. But not before then.
Sure, because a self-made former law professor, civil servant, community activist, campaign organizer, and former president of the Harvard Law review is just like Bush, who only got where he is by milking papa’s tit.
BTW, how do you think Hillary got where she is? Would you describe her as “self-made”? Do you think it’s possible that nepotism is somehow involved with her candidacy?
Dennis - SGMM
Not me. Some of today’s comments prove that we could do worse.
Blue Buddha
Let’s see: “pieces of silver” in Biblical terms is “shekels of silver”. As with most ancient weight terms, a shekel varied in weight (between 9 and 17 grams). The current price of silver is at $16.88/troy oz., or 54.28c/gram. Therefore, 30 pieces of silver is:
30 x 0.5428 x 9 to
30 x 0.5428 x 17
…or $146.55 to $276.81
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
Holla. I had my ‘Obama or bust’ moments before, but you’re exactly right.
John D.
Care to explain, then, how Obama does exceedingly well in states with almost no blacks? (See: Idaho, Alaska, Kansas, Utah, Vermont, North Dakota, Minnesota, Maine and others) None of those have a black population in excess of 6% or so, yet he cleaned up in them. He won a lot of white male vote — more than Hillary, in fact — in over 3/4 of the states so far.
Your premise is fundamentally flawed. That’s why we’re either ignoring it, or openly mocking it.
TheFountainHead
Yah, Kwawk has managed to make me nostalgic for Myiq.
horatius
Just go fuck yourself kwawk. And take mutaman with you. Vote for Mcwar, I don’t fucking care.
cleek
their comments seem identical to me, for some reason…
crw
I’m thinking kwAwk and Mutaman would be happier over at Protein Wisdom. Or maybe LGF.
rachel
I’m so pleased to see the Balloon Juice community has come together and left the spirit of strife and disagreement that was expressed so often here recently. Why, there have been 88 posts so far and not one has told Michael D. to “STFU, n00b!” Such progress!
:-)
ThymeZone
I’m a Dem going on 52 years or so (the period during which I have had any awareness of politics) and I am an opponent of what she stands for. She, like the Bush family, stands for Ends Justify Means politics. She stands for protecting and enhancing her own power. She stands for pandering, lying, scheming and betraying. She stands for fucking us out of healthcare reform for about 16 years now. She stands for the Rose Law Firm billing records. She stands for total mismanagement of the White House travel office mess. She stands for AUMF, and then refusing to disavow it later. She stands for failing to speak out for Barack Obama during the Reverend Wright flap. She stands for painting her husband’s disastrous administration and its effect on the fortunes of the Democratic Party in the sweetest possible light at all times as if the crappy parts had never happened.
She stands for winning at all costs, for lying to her supporters to keep the money coming in when she has no chance of winning, for letting her campaign staff spread a toxic view of American electoral politics in order to pump her chances, for running such a fucked up campaign that she managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory in the biggest test of her life …
Yeah, I’m an opponent of what she stands for. Fuckin-A right I am, and anyone doesn’t like it can kiss my entire ass.
TheFountainHead
We’re here to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.
4tehlulz
So if we kiss only a quarter of your ass, that’s not good enough?
ThymeZone
No. Pucker up, compadre.
Dennis - SGMM
Provocateur!
wingnuts to iraq
Just FYI, on what planet could Hillary win in ’12? Not gonna happen. Clinton will be even more damaged, unwanted, unliked goods in 4 years–especially if Obama loses. Nothing in the world would make me want to vote for Hillary in a primary.
PeterJ
I’m guessing that would be me. But I asked for McSameBots. The primary is over, there’s no need to argue with Hillary supporters anymore.
kwAwk
John D. says: Care to explain, then, how Obama does exceedingly well in states with almost no blacks? (See: Idaho, Alaska, Kansas, Utah, Vermont, North Dakota, Minnesota, Maine and others) None of those have a black population in excess of 6% or so, yet he cleaned up in them. He won a lot of white male vote—more than Hillary, in fact—in over 3/4 of the states so far.
Your premise is fundamentally flawed. That’s why we’re either ignoring it, or openly mocking it.
_________________________________
Bingo Sparky. The white male vote has been chided to vote for people based upon their qualities for more than a generation now. That statistic would show that the White Male vote has not been significantly racist this time around.
However, I dare you to show me one state where Hillary has gotten more than 40% of the black vote. Hasn’t happened. Even in her home state she lost the black vote 61:37 and that was her high water mark by 12 percentage points. I’ll post the list for you guys again:
Obama Clinton
Iowa 72 16
South Carolina 78 19
California 78 18
Illinois 93 5
New York 61 37
Florida 73 25
Ohio 87 13
Texas 84 16
Missouri 84 15
Alabama 84 15
Mississipi 92 8
Tennessee 77 22
New Jersey 82 14
Connecticut 74 24
Virginia 90 10
North Carolina 91 7
Georgia 88 11
Pennsylvania 90 10
Maryland 84 15
Louisiana 86 13
Arkansas 74 25
Nevada 83 14
Indiana 89 11
Average 82.3 15.8
I’m well aware of why you guys want to mock or ignore (who is ignoring? I seem to be getting dozens of replies.) my logic. It is a little to painful for you guys to admit that you have chosen such a flawed candidate.
Obama is a merger of the Dean/Bradley supporters with the Jesse Jackson supporters. This notion you guys of me having to vote for Obama simply because he’s a democrat, is the same logic that brought us 8 years of George W. Bush and I’m not going along for the ride. Of all of the candidates on the stage in the New Hampshire debates, Obama ranks up there in qualifications somewhere right above Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, the only real difference is that Obama gives a pretty good speech and has a Bushlike manner of staying above the frey.
But by all means, good luck in November pushing the Unity Pony in the general. He’s done such a fine job unifying the Democratic Party hasn’t he?
cleek
or here
(the author was a recent visitor to ObWi)
SamFromUtah
This notion you guys of me having to vote for Obama simply because he’s a democrat, is the same logic that brought us 8 years of George W. Bush and I’m not going along for the ride.
Actually, the logic is intended to avoid having 12 years of George W. Bush.
ThymeZone
The thing that will unify the Democratic party in October is John McCain.
The GOP has nominated Mister Magoo for president.
We are going to nominate a bright, well spoken rock star with progressive ideas and about a thousand times more character than their guy.
Democrats who can’t stop cowering in the face of this great GOP threat should really just go fuck themselves. Get a spine, or get out. For two years this blog has whined about where the Dem spine is.
Well, this is the time to start showing it. We have the best candidate and the best ideas and the most money and the political opportunity of a lifetime. Stop spreading fear and STFU and get on the bandwagon you despicable pussies. Either get behind the nominee, or go work for Joe Fucking Lieberman.
Billy K
kwAwk, learn to fucking block quote.
zoe from pittsburgh
kwack-
So 2-3 more Scalia-like supreme court justices doesn’t bother you?
Staying in Iraq indefinitely doesn’t bother you?
More wars in the Middle East doesn’t bother you?
You’d rather have McCain in the White House than Obama because you think Clinton should have been the Dem nominee?
Stay the fuck home, then. You’re a self-centered petty asswipe who cares more about your own hurt feelings than the future of this country. Might as well go register as a republican already.
John S.
You are a moron, and I doubt anything anyone can say will change that.
McCain is a defacto third term of Bush, whom you seem to have such distaste for. Obama won’t even come close to being that sort of unmitigated disaster. Sure, he’s a bit of unknown quantity, but McCain is a known quantity – and it is known that he is batshit insane.
Vote for him if you’d like or write-in Hillary or stay home. Whatever floats your boat. Just realize that your logic brings us four more years of George W. Bush.
4tehlulz
OPPRESSED WHITE MALE IS OPPRESSED
rachel
True fact: Myiq and P.luk are way better Hillary supporters than kwAwk because they know how to block quote. kwAwk, on the other hand, makes Hillary supporters look inept at this internets thing.
merrinc
I stand corrected. You were right, of course. And these guys aren’t doing such a good job at windmill tilting.
zoe from pittsburgh
Also, pretending that Hillary and Bill didn’t actually actively LOSE the black vote means you’re totally ignorant about where the whole race began. She was strongly favored by African-Americans UNTIL Bill shot off his mouth and made dismissive comments about their importance in states like South Carolina.
So, no, you’re wrong about blacks being motivated by racism and are somehow voting for Obama just because he’s black– the Clintons fucked themselves and pretty much drove away the black vote.
zzyzx
Oh, btw, more proof that it’s over can be found at hillaryis44. It’s nothing but infighting in the comments section. People have decided that that site isn’t hillaryiffic enough and are leaving for new ones. There are all sorts of accusations flying around over there being fake Clinton supporters there. It’s great.
4tehlulz
MY WHITE MALE RAAAAAAAAAAGE WILL DELIVER NEW JERSEY TO MCCAIN AWAY THE RACIST BLACK MAN
Andrew
BLOCK QUOTING IS HITLER
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Yikes! Sounds like they need a Committee For Public Safety or something, just to maintain order and sort out the pure from the impure.
Notorious P.A.T.
Hillary Clinton: “White people like me! They will vote for me!”
Obama supporter: “I don’t like the racial tone this race is taking.”
Clinton supporter: “Nuh uh! It isn’t!!!!! Where did you get that idea? You’re an idiot!”
Notorious P.A.T.
Yeah! And if a penny were worth a million dollars, I’d be living on my own private island! So there!
Be fair, though–Obama is half black, so people who vote for him are only half racist.
4tehlulz
Your forgetting about his AMERICA_HATING_WIFE and SCARY_BLACK_PREACHER, so it’s actually 5/6ths racist.
Helena Montana
Yeah, snakehead will be standing right by Obama – sticking a shiv between his ribs.
Dreggas
shorter kwAwk:
I am we tod did, I am sofa king we tod did.
Rick Taylor
Just hit that little button that looks like “>>” above the message window. You’ll get a palette of buttons, including one marked B-Quote; high-light the text you want to block quote and press that button.
eastriver
Gee, that’s pretty snotty. I didn’t vote for Hillary, but on behalf of her supporters, Fuck You. (I held my pinky in the air when I typed it.)
When I pull the lever for Obama, I certainly won’t be pulling it for his supporters.
cleek
finally, someone who understands the difference between candidate and supporter!
i’m gonna bookmark this.
Krista
There’s something else to consider with this whole “my candidate, or I’m staying home” talk.
It’s not just YOU that you have to worry about. Like it or not, U.S. policy, both international and domestic, has a very large effect on the rest of the world.
I genuinely question whether the world can withstand another U.S. Republican presidency. John McCain makes joking songs about bombing Iran and doesn’t have a sweet fucking clue regarding the various players in the Middle East. Would he resort to nuclear weaponry? I wouldn’t put it past him.
As well, your dollar sinking below ours has royally fucked a lot of our exporters and much of our tourism industry, hurting our own economy. I’ve seen friends lose their jobs and local restaurants and motels close up shop. Bush’s charming habit of pushing abstinence-only sex ed on the rest of the world has had tragic consequences in Africa. The list goes on and on.
It’s not just the U.S. you have to think about. Your country has one flying fuck of a lot of influence, and who you vote for will affect not just your country, but the rest of the world. And if you vote in McCain because you were mad that your desired Dem candidate did not become the nominee, then we’re all royally screwed.
So, I’m begging you: bitch all you want about Clinton or about Obama. I don’t care. But when the day comes to actually vote — please, please do not subject the rest of the world to another four years of a Republican presidency.
John Cole
This is the dumbest fucking thread in the history of this blog. And that is saying something.
And why can not of the Hillary supporters blockquote?
Dreggas
To answer your question, see your previous two sentences in the same post.
MBunge
I have a question. Is the weird, unreasoning anger and epic up-is-downism coming from Hillary supporters something new and significant…or is it this actually common among supporters of losing nomination fights, but this is the first time it’s happened in the internet age? If Kennedy supporters in 1980 or Reagan in ’76 had posted to message boards and blogs, would it have looked like what we’re seeing from Taylor Marsh and company?
I mean, I’ve encounted people upset because the other guy won the election…but the bone deep irrationality in the Hillary camp is far beyond that.
Mike
RareSanity
Only latte sippin’ academic elitists use block quotes.
dslak
And why can’t the proprieter of the blog use the right damned words?
PK
I think the only notion that people seem to have of you is that you are an idiot.
Fe E
Jesus, I go and work hard for a morning and I miss this?!?!?
I’d say something, but I don’t think the gunsmoke, shell casings and bodies strewn about the place will care to listen.
And is it just my imagination, or was there a time when kwAwk wasn’t a combative insufferable ass of Darrel-esque proportions?
Oh yeah, one more thing. bockquotin’ it’s
John Cole
“not one of” wankers.
Up to my armpits in work and typing hastily.
Conservatively Liberal
I told that asshat the same thing, but Clintonistas don’t deal in facts. They just pull jackalopes out of their asses. Then they wonder what happened to that warm & fuzzy feeling they had inside.
All they have to do is put the jackalope back in their ass and their alternate universe will be fine.
Regarding remedial shoe tying, I bet that Joisey asshat uses shoes with velcro, and I bet his Mommy still has to cinch them up.
Gotta keep the Cheetoes stains off the shoes, ya kno. ;)
Nope. Free Republic.
dslak
I would mention that the first draft of my thesis is full of similar errors, but I wouldn’t want to be accused of hypocrisy.
kwAwk
Gosh. Look at all of the personal attacks from the ‘classy folks’.
I’m sorry, I’ve been all wrong about this. I’m gonna vote for Obama because he knows how to block quote. You’ve all convinced me.
dslak
How can Obama hope to win without the concern troll vote?
Rick Taylor
Why yes! Think if back in 2000 people had felt obligated to vote for Gore as the lesser evil simply because he was the Democrat. Why it’s that sort of reflexive voting for someone just because they’re the Democrat that brought us ei. . . . . ummm. . . errrr. . . .hmmmm…..
Fe E
.
Wow, even though I’ve never voted for Bush, and certainly won’t vote for McCain, reading that, well I just can’t help feeling like some kind of asshole.
Conservatively Liberal
I don’t think he is concerned about it. ;)
John S.
Feel free to blame the mean commenters for making you vote for McCain.
John Cole
WTF are you talking about?
I am just trying to get you to blockquote. I am going through this thread and you have apparently come up with your own html formatting rules- multiple quotes from people without the benefit of quotation marks, attributions, or blockquotes, and most of the time I have no idea what you said and what you are quoting.
Jeebus. You just want to be pissed off about something, don’t you?
Chris Johnson
If Hillary believes in laws above the men or women, why does she act as she does? Thank goodness it isn’t going to be an issue because I think it’s possible McCain is more honest and more likely to have respect for the rule of law.
By a tiny margin, perhaps, but thank goodness we don’t have to pick between those two. That would be obscene.
Rick Taylor
zzyzx wrote:
I’m not at all worried that the super-delegates will buy into it. I’m more concerned that some Democrats may buy the notion that Clinton won “the popular vote” making Obama’s nomination less than legitimate, and not turn out in the general election as a result. But then Obama certainly knows a lot more about how to win an election than me.
PK
I think you should do the world a favor and jump off a bridge on election day. That would be a fitting tribute to queen Hillary.
Chris Johnson
And, McCain is an idiot and doesn’t even know what a Middle East country is, and sings ‘bomb bomb Iran’.
Hillary is _smart_ and knows all that stuff quite well, and still talks of ‘obliterating’ Iran. That would worry me if there was any chance of her actually winning. McCain could possibly be taught. Hillary already knows better and is still carrying on this way.
Tony J
It is. I’m just sitting here in my shorts sniggering and watching Thyme try (hopefully successfully) to bombast the newly arrived flotsam and jetsom into picking a fight with his gigantic ass.
Which, y’know, will give me something funny to read at work tomorrow.
kwAwk
The short explanation of how to use the block quotes by
was much more effective than the snide comments by
.
Do I want to be pissed off about something? Nope. But I only tend to jump in the conversations when I have something to say.
And if you really want to know what I am pissed off about it is the prospect of having to vote for McCain. I am at this point looking for a reason to vote for Obama. But all I seem to come across is….
and the ever so popular…
Vote for Obama because he isn’t John McCain!
Andrew
YOU ARE HITLER BECAUSE YOU USED THE HITLER PERSON WORD IN A POST HITLER HITLER HITLER
kwAwk
Oh well, 3 of 4 on the block quotes.
Andrew
THAT SOUNDS LIKE HITLER LOGIC
dslak
I believe you. No, really, I do. And the “I don’t want to vote for McCain, but if Obama beats Hillary, I’ll be forced to” line? I can only imagine how it’s tearing you apart inside.
crw
I stand corrected.
Svensker
Well, yeah, that’s pretty much the bottom line, isn’t it?
Isn’t that why pretty much everyone here voted for John Kerry (exceptin’ our host) in 2004, even tho he was a crappy candidate, but he wasn’t George Bush?
And isn’t that why pretty much everyone here (including our host) would have voted for Hillary had she got the nod, because she wasn’t John McCain?
What? You want a gold medal, an extra side of fries, and a Sparkle Pony, too, before you’ll vote against John McCain (and therefore for Obama)? Time to get a grip — we’re all out of Sparkle Ponies.
Jon H
“Clinton has no chance of ever becoming the President.”
Nope. Even if McCain were to win in November, and survives his term, I doubt that, after 16 years of youngish Presidents, four years of a septuagenarian President will make American voters elect a person of retirement age in 2012. I expect they’ll be inclined to go back to a younger person.
PK
In Nov there will only be two choices. If you want the republicans to continue to be in power, vote McCain. If not vote Obama (love him, hate him or loath him). That will be the only reality.
If you get influenced by anything negative which an Obama supporter here or anywhere says and vote McCain then you are nuts!
On the other hand you can really make a meaningless statement and vote Bob Barr. That will show them!
Idiotic
KWACK IS EXCELLENT SUPPORTER!
Conservatively Liberal
Please sit! Standing at a keyboard sucks. ;)
crw
How about because he supports 9/10ths of Hillary’s platform? Whereas John McCain is actively hostile to that platform and will seek to continue rolling back Democratic initiatives. There’s been a lot of BS on both sides about who’s the more “Repug-lite” candidate, but in reality they agree far more than they disagree. Where they disagree, its not on end goals (e.g. universal health care), but rather on methods and political tactics to reach those goals. You can quite legitimately prefer Clinton’s approaches to Obama’s, but you are mistaken if you think their visions for America differ much.
mrmobi
You know, if I were Obama, I’d be sure to ban Carville from having anything to do with his administration. Carville shares a bed with “Lady Cheney,” Mary Matalin, after all. Sorry for the unpleasant imagery.
Russert seems to think Carville & Matalin know everything there is to know about politics. Let’s hope this election ends their run, hopefully along with Pat “Slavery was Good For Blacks” Buchanan.
Agreed.
Also, don’t let the door hit you in the ass. If you’re really a Democrat, you vote for the Democratic nominee.
If you’re pro-torture, anti-religious freedom, anti-evolution, anti-choice, anti-union, anti-habeus corpus, you vote for the Party of Torture. See, I’ve made it easier for you, I renamed them so you won’t be confused.
In other news, it seems that McCain is likely to pick Huckabee for VP. While Huckabee is quite affable, I’ve got to think this is a terrible, terrible decision. With that ticket, you’ll have one candidate who believes the earth is 6,000 years old, and the other who is 6,000 years old.
Also, why is either presumptive nominee talking about VP? Isn’t Cheney VP for life?
Rick Taylor
That’s actually not such a bad reason. In the unlikely event the super-delegates came out to give the nomination to Hillary, that’s the main thing that would keep me in line, and I certainly wish just a few more Democrats in Florida had reasoned that way in the election of 2000.
The fact of the matter is, Hillary and Obama are so close together on policy, and both so far from McCain, that I don’t understand why McCain would be anyone’s second choice after either Democrat. Both Hillary and Obama admit the war in Iraq was a mistake, and want to get us out. McCain still holds it was necessary and was just done badly, and promises to follow through with Bush’s policy. Both Hillary and Obama admit our health care system isn’t adequate and our looking for government solutions, while McCain thinks things are fine. And on and on. There are differences between the Democratic candidates of course, but they pale next to both their differences with McCain. Plus both Hillary and Obama are very smart, while McCain admits he doesn’t know much about economics, thinks Iran supports Al Qaeda, and doesn’t show any evidence he has a strategic vision beyond we should stay in Iraq until we win.
I sometimes wonder if the some of the heat between Hillary and Obama supporters comes from the fact they are so similar on the issues, so that the attention has to go to more ephemeral matters of character and such, that generate more anger. It reminds me of a joke, I wish I could find the original. Two people meet, and start talking. “Do you. . perchance. . .believe in God?” “Why yes. . .yes I do.” “Mmmm. . good. Are you by chance a Christian?” “Why yes. . .yes I am.” “Mmmm. . . good. Are you by any chance of the protestant faith?”
The dialog goes on this matter, through the heirarchical tree of denominations, where they’re both seventh day adventists, until “And do you follow the interpretation of Chronicles given by Edward or by Heath?” “Heath, actually.” “. . . . . ..DIIIIEEEEE YOU HEATHEN SCUM!!!!!”
Delia
I have a horrible feeling this disaster thread may be my unintentional doing. I posted a couple of snarky comments on a tinfoil thread at No Quarter last night, then came over here and linked people here to the thread. I now fear some of the pinheads over there may have followed me home.
Actually, not all my comments there were snarky. I also mourned that it used to be a good national security blog, and it was too bad it had become what it is now.
Delia
pee ess: I didn’t link anyone at No Quarter to BJ.
Rick Taylor
Hmmmm. Strange. Part of my last post got clipped. After the block quote, it should have said,
But there’s a big blank space instead. Maybe block quotes is broken. :)
Idiotic
Rick Taylor
Whoops, no my post was fine. My computer wasn’t working so well; need to reboot. Gak, wish I could delete posts.
PeterJ
No Quarters? That would explain it. Those people are batshit crazy. I’ll bet they will start their own militia in 2009.
I’ll take our own two trolls over them any day.
Tax Analyst
Well, it’s clear that we need to revert to the standard set by the Founding Fathers and factor down those black votes. Three-fifths, wasn’t it? Although back then the black people weren’t actually allowed to vote, they merely were COUNTED as 3/5 for the purpose of alloting Electoral Votes.
So, now the question is, how do we accomplish this down-factoring of the black vote? And how do we count the vote of Senator Obama himself? He is, after all, a mixed-race person. Does he get 4/5 of a vote?
Also, as a non-black person who nonetheless will be voting for Senator Obama for President should he be the nominee of the Democratic Party should I perhaps be entitled to count as MORE than one vote? And if you vote for a member of “your” race, does your vote have to be devalued?
And what of women who voted for Hillary? And in the GE, what about the votes of older people who vote for McCain – must they be similarly down-graded? If not, why?
It’s all so damnably complex…well, here’s a radical suggestion: Perhaps one man’s vote should count the same as any other man’s (or woman’s, for that matter).
RareSanity
Actually, you’re not. Your looking for reasons NOT to vote for Obama. You know, “his supporters are mean so I’m not voting for them.”
Frankly, if you can’t see what a tragic mistake it would be for Bush to get a third term (i.e. Abe McCain), then there is not one rational argument anyone here could put forth to persuade you.
If you vote for McCain, you are not punishing Obama supporters, you are punishing the Democratic Party in general. That includes your precious Hillary. How do you think anything will get done without a super-majority in the Senate and McCain vetoing every bill put before him. Then him playing himself up as the “maverick, small government, conservatives” that will save all the Repubs for the tax and spend Democrats.
You know what that’ll give you? Two terms of McCain and still Presidency for Hillary.
All because you wanted to punish Obama supporters…grow up!
RareSanity
oops… that should have been “still NO Presidency for Hillary”
Notorious P.A.T.
You posted “a couple”? How did you manage to not get banned after the first one?
If you really need a reason to vote for Obama instead of McCain, well. . .
Tax Analyst
You know, with all due respect, that’s entirely OK with me.
Besides, when did anyone ever accuse BJ commenters of having any class? And when they did, were they properly upbraided for that mischaracterization?
Gemina13
The last time I heard something like this, was, sadly, at a family dinner last weekend.
Brother #1: “I’m voting for McCain!”
Mother/Brother #2: “We’re voting for Hillary, unless she isn’t nominated, in which case we’re not voting!”
Me: “I’m voting for the Democrat. Period.”
Mother/Brother #1/Brother #2: “OMG U STOOPD HOOR DONT VOTE 4 TEH BLAKK MAN!!!!!111!!!”
Me: “This is when I really wish I was an orphan.”
And that’s really what it boils down to: Don’t vote for the black guy. Because, y’know . . . he’s black. And you know what that means.
(Actually, I don’t know what that means. What does it mean? We might actually look like a country that lives up to its ideals of liberty, justice for all, and equality? My God, what a horrific thought.)
Idiotic
GEMINA13’S FAMILY IS EXCELLENT NEWS!
eastriver
the universe is eating its own tail
pasta and antipasta will soon touch and we will all die
Go Edwards!
Delia
Attack of the Killer Hillbots. Only thing saving us is that their lunacy seems to be progressive.
LOOK OVER THERE. I JUST SAW A STORY THAT SAYS OBAMA’S REALLY A CYLON!!!! BETTER COPY IT DOWN QUICK SO YOU CAN POST IT ON NO QUARTER!!!
Krista
Oh for crissakes, somebody broke the blog again. Now I’ve gotta put in all the effort of horizontal scrolling, in addition to the usual vertical scrolling.
Damn you all.
Tlaloc
“Carville has been, and continues to be, one of Clinton’s staunchest supporters. Until now, he has not wavered. It’s great that, now that he has, he follows it up by telling us he’ll be right there with Obama when the nominating process is complete. That’s a lot classier than we can expect from a lot of her supporters.”
That’d be really bad for Obama if true, he wouldn’t have a prayer of winning without the vast majority of Hillary voters, but fortunately for him he’ll almost certainly get the vast majority of Hillary voters in November, so it’s a non-issue.
rachel
You might want to try the Opera browser; it has a ‘fit to width’ option that you can set as a button on the toolbar that’s very helpful in situations like this. It worked for me, anyway.