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You are here: Home / Politics / The Gift That Keeps On Giving

The Gift That Keeps On Giving

by John Cole|  November 26, 200812:02 pm| 94 Comments

This post is in: Politics, Religion

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Dobson, showing his Christian values:

So, Kathleen Parker has determined that getting rid of social conservatives and shelving the values they fight for is the solution to what ails the Republican Party (“Giving Up on God,” Nov. 19). Isn’t that a little like Benedict Arnold handing George Washington a battle plan to win the Revolution?

Whatever she once was, Ms. Parker is certainly not a conservative anymore, having apparently realized it’s a lot easier to be popular among your journalistic peers when your keyboard tilts to the left.

And Kathleen Parker learns what most of us learned a while ago- if you don’t toe the line with Dobson’s God-squad, you aren’t conservative. I guess it was too much to ask for him to end the column shouting “WOLVERINES.”

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Reader Interactions

94Comments

  1. 1.

    Stooleo

    November 26, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Its this sort of purity test that will keep the Republicans out in the wilderness for a decade, it not longer.

  2. 2.

    Dork

    November 26, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    Let’s talk about gifts that keep giving….Pam Gellar simply cannot let this go

    They’re apparently trying as hard as possible to get Clarance Thomas to review this, being the most partisan and douchbaggeristly biased judges on the court.

  3. 3.

    Nicole

    November 26, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    I just started a blog offering commentary on rah-rah Reagan American 1980’s movies that I missed back in the 1980’s but am catching up on now- the first entry- Red Dawn. My husband said when he saw it in the theater it was "scary as hell and a whole sack full of awesome" but in rewatching it with me last weekend said it’s "not good." I’m just glad I now understand the "Wolverines" reference.

    I’m enjoying Larison, by the way, but not today’s:
    http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/25/obama-and-foca/#comments

    I am encouraged that several of the commenters are politely disagreeing with him. I wish When Abortion Was a Crime was still in print. Offers a good historical perspective on the anti-abortion movement.

  4. 4.

    Cain

    November 26, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    @Dork:

    They’re apparently trying as hard as possible to get Clarance Thomas to review this, being the most partisan and douchbaggeristly biased judges on the court.

    So they’re shopping for an activist judge? I thought those were bad? IOKIYAR…

    cain

  5. 5.

    Mar

    November 26, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    I love it. They’re tearing themselves apart from within. There’s no such thing as constructive criticism…there’s only the "us vs. them" mentality.

  6. 6.

    Dave

    November 26, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Is it worth mentioning that Benedict Arnold did, in fact, play a key role in winning the Revolution through his actions at Saratoga in 1777?
     
    Christ, I hate people like Dobson who always yammer about American values and history and then inevitably prove they don’t know shit about anything besides getting their hate on.

  7. 7.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 26, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Shhhh! What’s that I hear?

    ::cups ear and leans slightly to the right::

    "Why, that’s the sound of the right wing in their death throes of marginalization… YIPPPEEEE!"

    I don’t mind truly conservative Republicans gaining hold of their party, but not this bunch of religious whackos. Let ’em drown.

  8. 8.

    The Other Steve

    November 26, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Let’s talk about gifts that keep giving….Pam Gellar simply cannot let this go

    That is awesome!

  9. 9.

    jibeaux

    November 26, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    The ideological purges will continue until the conservative movement is bigger.

  10. 10.

    aimai

    November 26, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Go Dave, up above. That BA quote struck me as very strange and bizarrely contrived.

    aimai

  11. 11.

    Sachin

    November 26, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    I too agree with Stooleo, its a kinda purity test…..seems so

  12. 12.

    Dave

    November 26, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Aimai,

    I agree. Was Dobson casting himself as George Washington?

  13. 13.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 26, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    The ideological purges will continue until the conservative movement is bigger.

    It’s the ideological equivalent of "trickle down economics" only working in reverse, and just as well.

  14. 14.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 26, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    @Dave:
    I think that he was casting himself as an old Godbotherer thrashing for relevance in a political landscape that’s changed beyond his comprehension.

  15. 15.

    joe from Lowell

    November 26, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Awesome. Keep it up, wingnuts.

    Meanwhile, Barack Obama is making the Democrats the big tent party.

    All your sane people are belong to us.

  16. 16.

    jibeaux

    November 26, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    BTW, Alan Keyes has a lawyer challenging Barack Obama’s birth certificate? Can I assume that it’s that disbarred guy who wears a kilt to accomodate his oversized boy parts?

  17. 17.

    Zifnab

    November 26, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    @Dork:

    Something is very wrong here.
    Rush Limbaugh is silent. Michelle Malkin is silent. FoxNews is silent. The Wall Street Journal is silent. Laura Ingraham is silent. CNN is silent. ABC is silent. NBC is silent. CBS is silent. The major newspapers are silent. This story is so big, yet no one wants to touch it.

    Lols! When FOX News and Rush Limbaugh and even journalistic bastion Michelle Malkin won’t touch it, YOU KNOW IT MUST BE TRUE!

    And Kathleen Parker learns what most of us learned a while ago- if you don’t toe the line with Dobson’s God-squad, you aren’t conservative. I guess it was too much to ask for him to end the column shouting “WOLVERINES.”

    To be fair, Parker basically demanded that Dobson’s faction move to the back of the bus, sit down, and shut up. I don’t care if you are the lunatic fringe frayed end of your party, you will still inevitably demand respect if you can bring in the votes. And Dobson was bringing in the votes. Parker? Not so much. So if American Pope James the First feels a little dissed after lining up to feed the GOP beast for the last twenty years and getting table scraps in return, I at least feel his pain.

    I still think he’s a raving loon, but I at least know where he’s coming from.

  18. 18.

    MattF

    November 26, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    I’ve always tended to put stuff from Dobson et. al. into the ‘inscrutable Gentiles’ folder. But, I mean– really, people– wtf? How does he get to call himself a Christian?

  19. 19.

    rea

    November 26, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Re: Pam Gellar–I particularly like the following from her website:

    THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO TO HELP THIS CASE GET BEFORE JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS IS TO WRITE TO HIM AND THE OTHER JUSTICES

    The Justices are, of course, prohibited by the rules of ethics from reading such communications.

  20. 20.

    Grand Moff Texan

    November 26, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    It seems that Dobson cannot tell the difference between ideological warfare and warfare warfare.
    .

  21. 21.

    joe from Lowell

    November 26, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    I love the birth certificate story.

    My favorite version is as follows: the President-elect was born "Barack Mohammed Obama," but the puppetmasters who decided to arrange his rise to power thought that name was too foreign-sounding and could be a political liability, so they changed his name to something more all-American:

    Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

  22. 22.

    ThresherK

    November 26, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Let’s not harsh on Alan Keyes. He is, after all, the failed African-American candidate whose failure made voting for Obama, on Obama’s merits, a safe and explicable thing to do for many a white suburban guy. (Disclaimer: White suburban guy, solid Dem.)

    How many other people will be have this scenario? Meeting long-lost relatives on Thanksgiving, saying "I voted Obama", and when the lame "Token black" charge comes up, will respond with an earful of "Yeah, just like Alan Keyes and his 50 million votes" sarcasm.

    Wondering if Kathleen Parker will do the full David Brock.

  23. 23.

    cleek

    November 26, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    now if the Dems would just stop it with the "Obama’s Not Liberal Enough!!" garbage, we could make some progress.

  24. 24.

    Dave S.

    November 26, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    I guess it was too much to ask for him to end the column shouting “WOLVERINES.”

    No need to. His regular readers add that on their own.

  25. 25.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 26, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    I’ve always tended to put stuff from Dobson et. al. into the ‘inscrutable Gentiles’ folder. But, I mean—really, people—wtf? How does he get to call himself a Christian?

    The word Christian doesn’t mean what you were taught to think it did. It never really did, that belief you had that Christians were kindly souls who believed in Jesus? Nonsense, but, unless you read up on the false prophet Paul’s true intentions, you’d never know this. They follow Paul, not Jesus.

    Here’s a hint: Paul was a pharisee who used to torture Christians, he never stopped really, he just took his business underground by leading their religion into a completely different direction. He is the author of about half of the New Testament, and he undoes all of what Jesus taught in his teachings.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    November 26, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    The Justices are, of course, prohibited by the rules of ethics from reading such communications.

    Which means Thomas, Scalito and Roberts will naturally take the case.

  27. 27.

    Punchy

    November 26, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    rea — that assumes, incorrectly, that Thomas has any ethics.

  28. 28.

    Joshua Norton

    November 26, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    now if the Dems would just stop it with the "Obama’s Not Liberal Enough!!" garbage, we could make some progress.

    The funny thing is Obama never claimed to be a radical progressive. When he was making all his fluffy feel-good speeches in the beginning every one went ga-ga and sort of projected their personal agenda on him, but he’s always played his cards close to his vest. I’d point out that he never really said all of the things they were claiming he stood for and their heads would practically explode.

    A lot of folks are in for a rude awakening.

  29. 29.

    Pender

    November 26, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    I prefer calling them the Jesus Jihad. This has two advantages: it’s more accurate, and it’s custom-tailored to infuriate them. Please join me in this cause.

  30. 30.

    Bostondreams

    November 26, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Actually, Benedict Arnold was a hell of a military commander and leader before he turned against the Congress for what he viewed as disrespect and unappreciation…so perhaps that analogy works pretty well…

  31. 31.

    Joshua Norton

    November 26, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    How does he get to call himself a Christian?

    They play religion like it’s one big monopoly game. All they have to do is follow the rules (that they’ve cherry picked from the bible) and they get to use the word "christian" on themselves. There’s no emotional commitment, just lip service to the written word. Then supposedly you can use your "get into heaven free" card.

    I don’t think Jesus meant his followers to be the fundie anti-social hate mongers that have pretty much poisoned the religious well.

  32. 32.

    ppcli

    November 26, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    The funny thing is Obama never claimed to be a radical progressive. When he was making all his fluffy feel-good speeches in the beginning every one went ga-ga and sort of projected their personal agenda on him, but he’s always played his cards close to his vest. I’d point out that he never really said all of the things they were claiming he stood for and their heads would practically explode.
    A lot of folks are in for a rude awakening.

    But, but, …. Rush promised that Obama would be a socialist.

  33. 33.

    Comrade Jake

    November 26, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    @Joshua Norton:

    The funny thing is Obama never claimed to be a radical progressive. When he was making all his fluffy feel-good speeches in the beginning every one went ga-ga and sort of projected their personal agenda on him, but he’s always played his cards close to his vest.

    Yup. What’s interesting to me is that he never really tried to fight the right’s notion that he was the most liberal Senator, that he’d be the most liberal POTUS, evah. He just let them keep saying that sort of thing, while he proceeded to describe a set of policies that were, for the most part, fairly middle of the road.

    So lots of independents looked at what the far right was saying at Obama, compared it to what he was actually saying on the stump, and concluded they were just lying. Meanwhile there appear to be more than a few people on the far left who believed what the far right was saying. Pretty good fucking strategy on Obama’s part.

  34. 34.

    John Cole

    November 26, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    The funny thing is Obama never claimed to be a radical progressive. When he was making all his fluffy feel-good speeches in the beginning every one went ga-ga and sort of projected their personal agenda on him, but he’s always played his cards close to his vest. I’d point out that he never really said all of the things they were claiming he stood for and their heads would practically explode.

    It is actually maddening. He has always stated he wants to go with what works- there will be some policies that are progressive, because, quite frankly, some of the problems we face require a progressive policy solution. Think healthcare, think unemployment, think regulating the markets, think global warming and alternative energy. Likewise, there will be some things he pursues that are more conservative- his foreign policy looks to be center-center-right and interventionist. Obama never said he was against wars. He was against stupid wars.

    And what will be even funnier, is that after everything he does, if it is a progressive response from Obama, there will be a thousand idiots blogging that “See, he is a secret liberal.” Then a week later, when he does something ‘conservative,’ the same idiots will lament that he has thrown the netroots and progressives under the bus.

    After just a few weeks of watching the wankery, I am now to the point that I think Obama should say “Thanks, but no thanks” and refuse to be sworn in. Who in their right mind would want to deal with us?

  35. 35.

    TenguPhule

    November 26, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    Who in their right mind would want to deal with us?

    All politicians are crazy.

    Some are simply crazier then others.

  36. 36.

    TenguPhule

    November 26, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Obama never said he was against wars. He was against stupid wars.

    That encompasses most wars.

  37. 37.

    TheFountainHead

    November 26, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    If Dobson ever met Jesus, do you think Jesus would smite him with a lightning bolt or something less dramatic, like just opening up a hole in the earth beneath his feet.

  38. 38.

    Face

    November 26, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    And what will be even funnier, is that after everything he does, if it is a progressive response from Obama, there will be a thousand idiots blogging that “See, he is a secret liberal.” Then a week later, when he does something ‘conservative,’ the same idiots will lament that he has thrown the netroots and progressives under the bus.

    Here’s the new cant-lose talking points seen on a few righty blogs: Since Obama chose to keep Gates, he’s therefore "against change", thus he lied and ran a phony campaign. But of course, would he have thrown Gates out, he’d be putting the troops in danger ("learning curve!") and disrespecting a quality military man.

    In their world, they never lose. Everything Obama does is wrong, no matter which direction he goes.

  39. 39.

    Brick Oven Bill

    November 26, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Focus on the Family Alert:

    Dobson appears to have been highly successful with his advances on the cities of New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Detroit. The crime rates there are now the highest in the nation.

    Fortunately, Dobson’s forces appear to have been stopped at the gates of Fond du Lac Wisconsin, which remains America’s safest city.

    Hopefully all talk of a Swedish offensive is now off the table.

  40. 40.

    MobiusKlein

    November 26, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    So what would be the effect if the Supremes ruled that Barack Obama was ineligible? Wouldn’t Biden just take over?

  41. 41.

    WereBear

    November 26, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    He is the author of about half of the New Testament, and he undoes all of what Jesus taught in his teachings.

    I so agree. It was Paul’s meanness & misogyny that drove me away from organized Christianity, which is more organized than Christian.

  42. 42.

    NonyNony

    November 26, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    @Face:

    In their world, they never lose. Everything Obama does is wrong, no matter which direction he goes.

    Well sure. Hence the increasingly ridiculous "THIS IS GOOD NEWS – FOR JOHN McCAIN" mocking of them that ran around the Toobz through most of the election. Sure some of that was mocking the conservative talking heads on the "Nooz" shows, but those talking heads have the exact. same. mentality. as a good chunk o’ right-wing bloggerdom.

    This actually gets at John’s comment above about progresives complaining about Obama. It’s actually fundamentally at the core of what separates right-wing-blogs from left-wing-blogs at an operational level (rather than at an ideological one). In Wingnutistan, everyone lines up and smacks down people who criticize the cheerleaders – if you’re not on the bus you’re under it. In Moonbatopia, everyone lines up to smack down the cheerleaders. I think the second dynamic is actually healthier overall, since there’s a chance that real criticism and real analysis might emerge from it (see Glenn Greenwald, for example), but taken to its extreme it’s probably as bad as what they do in Blogistan.

  43. 43.

    Joshua Norton

    November 26, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    So what would be the effect if the Supremes ruled that Barack Obama was ineligible?

    But "the people have spoken" and the results are untouchable, as the wingnutz are trying to claim in California about Prop 8.

    Funny how they can simultaneously take both sides of the same argument with equal conviction. It goes miles beyond hypocrisy and aimlessly wanders into some sort of pathology.

  44. 44.

    The Moar You Know

    November 26, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    If Dobson ever met Jesus, do you think Jesus would smite him with a lightning bolt or something less dramatic, like just opening up a hole in the earth beneath his feet.

    @TheFountainHead: None of the above. I think the most horrific thing that could happen to Dobson, and it would certainly fit with the teachings of Jesus of Nazaeth, is for Jesus to sit him down and explain, calmly, all the many and manifest ways in which he had failed Him, failed at being a good person, and failed at life.

    And Dobson should count himself lucky if that is what happens. Dobson’s version of Jesus would set Dobson’s testicles on fire for eternity.

  45. 45.

    NonyNony

    November 26, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    @MobiusKlein:

    From a purely theoretical standpoint, I would assume that if the ruling came down before the Electoral College met, the electors could change their votes and put someone else up there. The responsible thing to do would to put Biden in there. The PUMA thing to do would put Clinton in there (though god almighty she’d probably get eaten alive if she were made President under those circumstances). If the ruling were to come down after the Electoral College met it would follow the order of succession and Biden would be President.

    But that’s just theory. Because the idea that a birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii and certified by the state of Hawaii as "not a forgery" wouldn’t be enough to prove his citizenship status would mean that none of our previous Presidents had enough "evidence" that they were "natural born citizens" either. The whole idea is so insane.

  46. 46.

    Incertus

    November 26, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    @TheFountainHead:

    If Dobson ever met Jesus, do you think Jesus would smite him with a lightning bolt or something less dramatic, like just opening up a hole in the earth beneath his feet.

    I’d hope for something more like what happens at the end of Dogma, where Ben Affleck’s head explodes.

  47. 47.

    Dennis - SGMM

    November 26, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    Dobson has moved beyond the Gospels. Jesus merely taught his disciples to be fishers of men. Dobson is now a fisher of mens’ wallets as well.

  48. 48.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 26, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    @TheFountainHead:

    If Dobson ever met Jesus,

    Well, as a non-Christian who has read the book, I’d say the chances are it would involve tipped over tables. That would be a sort of temper induced teaching moment. The exact quotes of the guy don’t indicate a lot of vindictivness. I find it pretty amusing that the Old Testament gets such play when the he said he was bringing something new. But then, the GOP was the party of Lincoln once, also.

  49. 49.

    Incertus

    November 26, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    @MobiusKlein: Do you mean after the riots end and the fires go out?

  50. 50.

    MikeJ

    November 26, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Meanwhile there appear to be more than a few people on the far left who believed what the far right was saying.

    I always hear about these people, and it’s taken as a matter of faith that all those wild eyed lefty Obama supporters are deluded, but I’ve never actually met anybody (on the left) who ever thought Obama was of the left.

    And I’m not the shy retiring type. I go to Drinking Liberally and Dem meetings in my LD and wave signs for people running for the statehouse. I’m a real live lefty, I hang out with real live lefties, and don’t know anyone who thinks Obama is a lefty. Or a secret mooslim either, although I love to taunt the neighbor with the christian flag about the coming of sharia.

    I’m sure that there do exist at least a few of these people, and if you look around online you’ll find any demented viewpoint you want (the political corollary to Rule 34), I simply don’t think there’s many more people who ever thought Obama was a lefty than there were PUMAs.

  51. 51.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    November 26, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Obama never said he was against wars. He was against stupidcriminal wars.

    There, fixt.

  52. 52.

    Cain

    November 26, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    OT:

    Mumbai..(fuck, it’s Bombay, goddam it) has had a coordinated terrorist attack, and my uncle was saying that there is a hostage situation with american and british nationals at the Oberoi Hotel.

    Here
    cain

  53. 53.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    November 26, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Lefty, schmefty.

    I’m happy that Obama is on good terms with reality, and he has more than three fucking brain cells to rub together.

    Anything else is pure fucking gravy.

  54. 54.

    Glocksman

    November 26, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    As others have noted, Arnold was actually a decent General.

    It’s the Christofacists such as Dobson, along with the neocon assholes and the ‘supply side’ ideologues, that turned this former conservative Republican into Obama voter.

    Dobson can go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

  55. 55.

    Randall

    November 26, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    So what would be the effect if the Supremes ruled that Barack Obama was ineligible?

    In order to prove he was ineligible, they would have to prove his mother wasn’t an American citizen.

    I think most of the people who promote this conspiracy know this.

    Says a lot about what they think of their readers.

  56. 56.

    JD Rhoades

    November 26, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    To be fair, Parker basically demanded that Dobson’s faction move to the back of the bus, sit down, and shut up.

    This is a good point. Parker was pretty rude to and dismissive of the Dobson crowd, he’s pretty tough on her.

    Meanwhile, I have popcorn here if anyone would like some while we watch.

  57. 57.

    jake 4 that 1

    November 26, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    If she wants to get back into Blobson’s good graces Ms. Parker will have to sing all twenty verses of the fReichtard National Anthem: Doucheland, Doucheland über alles.

  58. 58.

    ChrisA

    November 26, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    @The Moar You Know

    I believe Dobson would receive the response somewhere along these lines.

    Matthew 7:21-23

    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

  59. 59.

    Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)

    November 26, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    From Pammy:

    The Obama COLB – posted on BHO’s website exposed for the first time at Atlas here. The story that Atlas broke could change the course of human history (if the system is not completely corrupted, that is)

    The course of history, [email protected]
    Sadly, Pam, the system is completely corrupted. So there’s that. But please do continue in your efforts. We’re listening.

  60. 60.

    The Moar You Know

    November 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    @ChrisA: Thanks, Chris. I couldn’t agree more.

    My Biblical knowledge of specific verses in not what it could be, a knowledge gap caused by my raging agnosticism. But I’m pretty sure I read enough to get the idea of how Jesus dealt with things, and it doesn’t involve smashing testicles or calling down lightning strikes on people’s heads.

  61. 61.

    Punchy

    November 26, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    @Cain: Yes, but those are brown people, so….like….did you see that Paris broke up with her boyfriend?

  62. 62.

    Kilkee

    November 26, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    So what would be the effect if the Supremes ruled that Barack Obama was ineligible?

    Simple. Henceforth, we’d have two co-equal branches of government.

  63. 63.

    liberal

    November 26, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    @John Cole:

    He has always stated he wants to go with what works… Likewise, there will be some things he pursues that are more conservative- his foreign policy looks to be center-center-right and interventionist. Obama never said he was against wars. He was against stupid wars.

    I don’t think "interventionist" foreign policy can be described as "what works".

    I’m sure Bacevich would agree.

    :-)

  64. 64.

    Delia

    November 26, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    wtf? How does he get to call himself a Christian?

    Well, Dr. Dobson seems to have cornered the market on this definition of the term.

  65. 65.

    The Other Steve

    November 26, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    To be fair, Parker basically demanded that Dobson’s faction move to the back of the bus, sit down, and shut up.

    Yeah, and I think short term her argument is going to have the exact opposite effect of what she wants. Instead the rabid religious right will rally around Dobson and go further wacko.

    You can’t really lead by telling people what they’re doing wrong. You have to show a better way.

    That being said, I don’t think Parker is intending to lead. She just wanted to start a debate.

  66. 66.

    The Other Steve

    November 26, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Sadly, Pam, the system is completely corrupted. So there’s that. But please do continue in your efforts. We’re listening.

    She should change her blog name to "Sadly, Pam".

  67. 67.

    phobos

    November 26, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    But, but, …. Rush promised that Obama would be a socialist.

    Technicalities. What he really meant was "radical collectivist".

  68. 68.

    JD Rhoades

    November 26, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    She should change her blog name to "Sadly, Pam".

    Oh, well played, sir! Well played indeed!

  69. 69.

    Gus

    November 26, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    If Dobson ever met Jesus, do you think Jesus would smite him with a lightning bolt or something less dramatic, like just opening up a hole in the earth beneath his feet.

    I think less dramatic still; a good kick in the junk.

  70. 70.

    Blue Raven

    November 26, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    I think less dramatic still; a good kick in the junk.

    Nah. He’d smack a bitch. Kick in the junk would come after Dobson proved he wasn’t listening after the bitchslap.

  71. 71.

    joe from Lowell

    November 26, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Jesus is classy.

    He’d conspicuously turn his cheek towards SpongeDob and say "Would you like to hit this one now?"

  72. 72.

    jake 4 that 1

    November 26, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Yeah, and I think short term her argument is going to have the exact opposite effect of what she wants. Instead the rabid religious right will rally around Dobson and go further wacko.

    Where can I donate money to buy them a bigger microphone? I want these ugly, small-minded, hypocritical sonsuvbeotches to be the very public face of the NeoCon movement.

  73. 73.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    November 26, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    And what will be even funnier, is that after everything he does, if it is a progressive response from Obama, there will be a thousand idiots blogging that “See, he is a secret liberal.” Then a week later, when he does something ‘conservative,’ the same idiots will lament that he has thrown the netroots and progressives under the bus.

    On this same theme, normally right-wing humor doesn’t do much for me, but I have to admit this was pretty funny:
    Obama names Bill Clinton to president post

    While the naming of Clinton appears to have momentarily calmed jittery financial markets, it sparked ripples of disapproval at liberal websites like Huffington Post and DailyKos. The progressive blogosphere was an early key source of support for Mr. Obama’s candidacy, but a steady stream of Clinton-era appointees since the election has left some charging that he had betrayed his campaign promises to bring them to Washington as part of a sweeping culture of change — a charge that Mr. Obama vehemently accepted.

    "Oh, for crissakes. Are you kidding me? Are you friggin’ kidding me?" asked Obama. "Of course I betrayed those goddamned idiots. Have any of you actually spent five minutes with them? I have, unfortunately. Nothing personal, but I wouldn’t trust these internet windowlickers with a plastic spork from Taco Bell, let alone a freaking $3 trillion dollar budget global superpower. Look, I may be naive, but I’m not stupid. And if Kose or Koz or whatever the fuck his name is thinks for one second I give a rat’s ass about who he wants in charge of the Treasury Department, he’s even stupider than he looks."

  74. 74.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 26, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    If Dobson ever met Jesus, do you think Jesus would smite him with a lightning bolt or something less dramatic, like just opening up a hole in the earth beneath his feet.

    I think Jesus would probably Force choke him. I imagine he has a pretty referential sense of humor/irony like that.

  75. 75.

    Mike G

    November 26, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Because the idea that a birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii and certified by the state of Hawaii as "not a forgery" wouldn’t be enough to prove his citizenship status would mean that none of our previous Presidents had enough "evidence" that they were "natural born citizens" either.

    Wasn’t there a birth announcement in the Honolulu paper as well?
    All part of the deception, of course. Because in 1961, his parents knew that the son of a Kenyan immigrant named Barack Hussein Obama would be a shoo-in President when he grew up.

  76. 76.

    lovethebomb

    November 26, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    I agree that Paul seems to have poisoned the Xian well. As a child of a pastor, I spent 15 yrs thinking what he wrote was God’s stenographer, but by my 20’s began to realize the cold inhuman nature of his faith. He was pro slavery, for example, which I could never agree with. Misogynist to the core. Most important, he set and made himself the example of an authoritarian leader of the Xian church – which people like Dobson follow. He once chided the Corinthians for a member who had sex with his step mother – to deliver his body to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. Now, this seems a bit at odds with the whole salvation, forgiveness, redemption thing. He was surprised in the 2nd epistle that they were upset and then, at that point, instructed them to forgive the boy. For one thing, how were they supposed to go about finding Satan to deliver this boy’s body for destruction? A puzzler. He was the ultimate authoritarian – arbitrary power run amuk. That is why Xian leaders – of whom my dad was one – so love the guy. He is the example of concentrated unaccountable power – who gets to deign the fate of all at his whim. The precise opposite of Christ. Most "churches" are little cults with tiny cult leaders, all following Paul’s example.

  77. 77.

    demimondian

    November 26, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    @Crematorium Oven Bill: Yeah, yeah. I know, you’re afeered of dose skeery beige "people".

    Go away, troll.

  78. 78.

    demimondian

    November 26, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    @Zifnab: Worse, there’s no reason to believe that Parker disagrees with any of Dobson’s fundamental goals. She merely wants him to shut up and wait for the time to be ripe for those goals to be enacted.

    The only problem with Dobson’s comment, in fact, if the implicit claim that conservatism is intrinsically religious. That’s a losing argument.

  79. 79.

    Cain

    November 26, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    @Punchy:

    @Cain: Yes, but those are brown people, so….like….did you see that Paris broke up with her boyfriend?

    Wait.. really?! Shit.. I thought he was like the love of her life or vice versa or something like that. The BF had a great quote about the media trying to break up something good just for good press or something like that. Oh well..

    cain

  80. 80.

    CWD

    November 26, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    "Why, that’s the sound of the right wing in their death throes of marginalization… YIPPPEEEE!"

    Looks like Santa may be bringing my boys a Rightwing Death Rattle for Christmass. Good times.

  81. 81.

    srv

    November 26, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    Hey Bill, here’s an updated Atlas Shrugged for ya:

    http://mcsweeneys.net/2008/11/20tucker.html

  82. 82.

    glesslib

    November 26, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    James, James, James……It couldn’t be that the current wave of honesty among conservative writers about how the religious right has hurt the party is making you nervous, could it?

    Are you fearing a loss of power and prestige in the party? Do you see a day when you won’t be able to get politicians to lie about how anti-abortion and anti-gay they are just to get your endorsement? No more grovelling at your door?

    It would appear that the torch is even being passed in the GOP. Too bad for you.

  83. 83.

    demimondian

    November 26, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    @glesslib: I don’t think that Dobson actually believes much of the tripe he spews, actually. What I do believe that he’s got a sharp ear for what offends *his* base — and he knows that Parker’s dismissal of their concerns will rile them up. He’s a smart man; he’s decided to stand up and climb in front of the parade.

  84. 84.

    Mr. Mises

    November 26, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    At a wingnut blog not long ago I observed the mobbing of a long time (neocon atheist anarcho-libertarian) regular commenter. The others decided that since he wasn’t a Christian, he had to be a lefty. He was ostracized.

  85. 85.

    studebaker hawk

    November 26, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    wtf? How does he get to call himself a Christian?

    Some people grade on a curve.

    For those in the "Paul hijacked the Jesus movement" camp, I’d recommend you take a look at Garry Wills’ book "What Paul Meant." He has some interesting thoughts on this, including the idea that later Christian authorities, especially post-Constantine, distorted Paul’s teachings as much as some of us tend to think Paul distorted those of Jesus. It’s a take worth checking out if you’re interested in that sort of thing.

  86. 86.

    ppcli

    November 26, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    For those in the "Paul hijacked the Jesus movement" camp, I’d recommend you take a look at Garry Wills’ book "What Paul Meant." He has some interesting thoughts on this, including the idea that later Christian authorities, especially post-Constantine, distorted Paul’s teachings as much as some of us tend to think Paul distorted those of Jesus. It’s a take worth checking out if you’re interested in that sort of thing.

    It’s an exceptionally interesting book, and it changed my mind about a lot of things. But it’s also a bit frustrating in that most of the central arguments depend on excluding many of the more authoritarian notes as belonging to epistles that aren’t authentically Pauline. (For example, 1, 2 Timothy and Titus.) He refers us elsewhere for the scholarly arguments to this effect. I don’t find this implausible, but it does mean that many of the key moving parts in his machine don’t appear in the book itself.

  87. 87.

    skippy

    November 27, 2008 at 2:03 am

    just need to echo that dave @ #6 beat me to the punch…benedict arnold was a revolutionary war hero, and wasn’t categorized as a traitor until well after the war (and then mainly because he disagreed w/the powers that be and lost…and winners write the history books).

    so dobson’s analogy, like most of his logic is flawed to the point of being 180 degrees away from what he meant to say.

  88. 88.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 27, 2008 at 2:58 am

    For those in the "Paul hijacked the Jesus movement" camp, I’d recommend you take a look at Garry Wills’ book "What Paul Meant." He has some interesting thoughts on this, including the idea that later Christian authorities, especially post-Constantine, distorted Paul’s teachings

    Sounds like it’s a groundbreaking book, and I’m interested in reading it.

    I don’t question that post Constantine authorities created more confusion than previously, but Paul is not off the hook.

    Paul, for one thing, is a 13th Apostle who never walked with Jesus, his "apostleship" is based solely on his own transformation, in which he describes the events more than once and changes the story. A twelfth apostle was already chosen by lots previous to Paul’s conversion (Matthias) based on the prerequisite that the one chosen would have to have walked with Jesus for the three years and knew him and his tenets.

    Paul also lies, boasts, calls himself father, and says "be followers of me". (scroll to the bottom of the page for the links to info about Paul).

    Paul makes many a faux pas that someone who has read the gospels would discern if they truly looked at the messages written in the gospels and compare them to Paul’s teachings. I’m glad to see others here have noticed as well.

    That said, I plan to check out this book.

    (btw, Constantine was an ancestor of mine, I’m not proud of that fact).

  89. 89.

    lovethebomb

    November 27, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Paul certainly is a mixed bag. Most doctrinal tenets of the Christian faith as we know it are to be found in Ephesians, Galatians, Romans and elsewhere. He also does, however, exhibit behavior and propose ideas and beliefs which I could not ever sanction. I suppose one has to be of a self possessed independent mind to be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff, if you will. This requires a close scrutiny of the canonization process itself, before you can arrive at the kind of freedom I believe we are intended to have about the recieved texts. Done at the order of a recently converted pagan emporer by 4th century Catholic bishops well into total corruption, their selection process can hardly be considered an authoritative act of God.

    So there’s the rub. Most Xians wouldn’t dream of questioning the canon because they exist in the authoritarian mind, the slave mind and in the sheep fold, bahing when their "shepherds’ thwack them with their rod, ala Dobson. It takes a bit of courage to step outside of the fear engendered by the early childhood indoctrination process and recognize the texts are largely historical documents which contain some revelation, but also provide example of what to avoid and reject. In the topsy turvy chaotic dervish that is life, it is evident to me that God intends we use the minds he gave us to determine truth than relying on a dogma encrusted in millenia of textism.

  90. 90.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    November 27, 2008 at 9:41 am

    It takes a bit of courage to step outside of the fear engendered by the early childhood indoctrination process and recognize the texts are largely historical documents which contain some revelation, but also provide example of what to avoid and reject. In the topsy turvy chaotic dervish that is life, it is evident to me that God intends we use the minds he gave us to determine truth than relying on a dogma encrusted in millenia of textism

    Well, there are several areas both in the Old Testament and in the gospels that implore the believer to question the doctrines and see if they are from God or from man. Modern day Xtian sheep are told NOT to do so (by the same authority that knows it would fall from grace if their adherents were to do so).

  91. 91.

    ew

    November 27, 2008 at 11:05 am

    The leftist illuminati would like to say that there is a necessity that all conservatives follow the same religion. I think there is nothing in the political scope that all have to agree on in that sense.

  92. 92.

    Glenn

    November 27, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    I can only pray that the GOP stays firmly in the pocket of people like Herr Dobson and his Xian God-squad. These a-holes are so obnoxious they even drive away the conservatives.

  93. 93.

    absentee

    December 1, 2008 at 3:34 am

    Your "argument", such as it is, is fatuous nonsense. Parker’s article was no mere dissenting point of view. She argues the abolishment of the social conservatism leg of the party. This is electoral suicide for the party, of course. But on top of that, it’s Parker, as Dobson said, disinviting Christians from public discourse. I’m sure it feels very good to cry out that Parker is being silenced and stand with her. I’m sure you feel very open-minded and proud. But it isn’t Dobson telling anyone to take their opinions and shove them. It’s Parker doing that, which is evidently totally fine with you.
    "Either the Republican Party needs a new base — or the nation may need a new party. "
    That’s what she said. "Piss off, Christians" might be another way to put that.

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