Glenn has a big piece up on David Gregory’s MTP performance yesterday, but ignores the spectacular display by Rich Lowry, which included this gem:
Lowry: I just want to go back to Richard’s point about the no attacks on U.S. soil. U.S. soil is a big caveat. I mean, that is a key thing. And in our exit interview with President Bush, you’re just struck by the extent to which he was a war president. I mean, that’s what drove him most passionately. And when you talk to him about it, you feel as though he’s just sort of been left behind by the public and by history. And I think that’s because of the very success in preventing another attack on U.S. soil…
It is unknown whether or not Lowry and the NRO will begin the fund drive to erect monuments to the other several dozen Presidents who managed to make it through their term with only one or fewer attacks on American soil. Fortunately, Richard Wolffe was there to beat back Lowry’s rubbish:
read the transcript here), which in and of itself is unremarkable. What is exceptional is this comment from Jonah Goldberg at the NRO:MR. WOLFFE: You can’t take America’s national security across oceans to other continents and then only care about its impact on American soil. It’s grossly irresponsible.
Even discounting for friendship, self-interest, and ideological bias, I thought that Rich was far and away the most interesting panelist on Meet the Press yesterday. Frankly, I thought Richard Wolffe was a mixture of cliché and nonsense. For instance, he seemed to think that Bush should be condemned for preventing terrorist attacks on American soil and not doing more to prevent them in countries that haven’t taken the war on terror as seriously.
The profound intellect of the conservative movement on display for all to see.
Zifnab
You know who was an amazing war-time President? Jimmy Carter. He had one less attack on US soil than the sitting President.
I declare victory.
Ben
All I can say is: Holy Shit!
The Other Steve
In sheer numbers though, George Bush lost more Americans to attacks than any president since Abe Lincoln.
Punchy
This line of bullshit slays me. Shorter Dick: what a triumph of a Preznetsee to only allow 3000 Americans to die ONCE!
Josh Hueco
You should leave the NRO bashing to alicublog, John. Not that you’re bad at it, but he’s just so good at it. His strategically-placed "FARRRRRTs" in whatever Jonah Goldberg writes are sublime.
TenguPhule
But after that, Doughy Pantsload has nothing!
liberal
Here’s another distortion:
Joshua James
The no terrorist attacks on American soil is one big zombie lie that just won’t die … how can we kill this thing?
I mean, I shout it out every time "ANTHRAX ATTACKS THAT KILLED FIVE PEOPLE" I hear that blatant lie on television, but how is it that they keep trotting it out unchallenged by mainstream media?
I mean, WTF!
El Tiburon
Take away those few hours on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001 and the recession and the mortgage meltdown and the fact that every country (except India) hates us and that more people are without health insurance and in poverty and the destruction of the Constitution and take away torture and secret prisons and the AG scandal and the clusterfuck that was Katrina and the anthrax scare and the thousands of US solidiers and Iraqis dead and the increased power of the Taliban and Al Queda and the ginormous increase in the deficit…
Take away all of that, and you have a half-way decent presidency.
Let’s not look back. Let’s move forward. We have a new DemocRAT President to destroy
liberal
I assume he means "between 9-11 and now."
As Atrios has pointed out repeatedly, he’s ignoring the anthrax attacks, which really did seem like a big deal at the time.
liberal
I like this one, too:
Yeah. They impeached Clinton over a blow job, and…uh, how did the Democrats not recognize the legitimacy of Republican presidents?
KevinD
How much time was there between the first attack on the WTC and the second? Over eight years, wasn’t it? George Bush hasn’t even made it that far, and I’d like to see the evidence that he actually prevented a real attack.
And no, British successes using real police work and bogus plots by FBI-instigated patsies don’t count.
Progressive Libertarian
What about the anthax attacks?
I was in the Senate Office building when the Daschle letter was opened. Last I checked, Capitol Hill constitutes U.S. soil. I am continually amazed at the brazenness of Bush apologists in pretending the anthrax attacks never happened. And how is such a flagrant falsehood not instantly challenged?
Incertus
@liberal: Some people are still mad about how 2000 came down to a 5-4 vote? Or that Barbara Boxer dared to back up her friends in the House over the 2004 Ohio vote? Or maybe they just said mean things about Bush–you never know what people like Lowry are going to get twisted about.
JWeidner
Bush couldn’t hold FDR’s jock strap if we’re comparing "war-time" presidents. I mean seriously. At least FDR knew where to bring the pain. Bush just flails about the Middle East like a damn child.
liberal
@Incertus:
Did you hear? The USSC reversed Bush v. Gore, and Gore is now president until Obama takes office.
mapaghimagsik
@El Tiburon:
Australia and New Zealand are pretty nice to us — mostly because they’ll be courteous to almost any crazy.
But still, your point is valid.
gil mann
I’d almost be receptive to the "kept us safe" nonsense if they hadn’t outed an informer (fucking the CIA and Interpol in the process) just for a shot of good press. It’s pretty obvious based on that move that if they had thwarted any attacks, we’d know. "Know" as in they’d never shut the fuck up about it.
Lowry, man. Whadda maroon. I should try to sell that guy my 401(K) at 2007 rates.
Andrew
There have been several terrorist attacks since 9/11 on U.S. soil. We know this because the outrage squad of the right wing nut case battalion has spent years telling us so.
For example:
I walked through the pit at UNC about an hour before a crazy nutcase drove an SUV through it and ran over a bunch of people. It takes approximately 2 nanoseconds to find wingnuts declaring that this was Islamic terrorism, INCLUDING ON NRO’S OWN SITE.
Why are they so fucking retarded? Lowry in particular is a fucking moron.
MBunge
Why is Rich Lowery on MTP in the first place? I mean, wouldn’t one of the guys from Pat Buchanan’s American Conservative magazine be better, in that they might actually say something interesting that you wouldn’t hear from every other right-winger on the TV?
Mike
Rosali
I like how "no attacks since 9/11" manages to gloss over the biggest national security disaster in our lifetimes. As if there had not been several warnings during 2001 when Bush was busy being the most vacationing president in history. As if the system wasn’t blinking red during his watch. As if no one could have predicted that Al Qaida and UBL were determined to attack the US. I guess Bush and his supporters think he got away with covering his ass for the past 7 years.
Gus
Nah, there’s so much to mock. Edroso and tbogg may be the kings, but John’s no slouch. The title of tbogg’s most recent post is brilliant.
Comrade Darkness
Laura Bush: Presidency Not a Failure
No word on whether an actual journalist was involved in the interview, since the critical question of: "So, what would constitute failure in your mind?" never came up to avoid this just being an empty exercise in semantics.
I like the photo selection on this piece. It’s the one I would like to imagine should be there: childish defiance.
The Moar You Know
@Progressive Libertarian: The anthrax attacks weren’t terrorism as they were likely committed by a white person, plus they’ll never be solved, so it doesn’t fit in with the cheap and easy "24"-style narrative that we have come to expect from True Terrorist™ attacks.
Oh, how I wish I was joking about this.
Josh Hueco
@Gus:
Oh I agree…I never said John’s a slouch. "Codpiece NOM NOM NOM" should occupy a place of honor in this blog’s hall of fame next to "skull-fucking a kitten."
Comrade Darkness
And "kept us safe" is a laugh considering the perfectly preventable carnage wrought by intentionally toothless osha, mine oversight, vehicle safety, fda, toy safety, medical errors . . . etc etc. Easily, this is in the tens of thousands of cheaply preventable deaths, since the total carnage over 8 years is well over two million.
r€nato
Other than
the assassination9/11, howwas the play, Mrs. Lincolnwere the Bush years, America?(I didn’t count the terrorism committed in Bush’s two failed wars because, you know, they didn’t happen on American soil)
garyb50
This is why I refuse to use Lowry’s Salt.
Zuzu's Petals
That "no attacks on US soil" balloon was deflated pretty handily by John Mueller in this 2006 piece :
Sorry for the super-long quote, but it is a long piece. I’m not sure I agree with every conclusion he makes, but it is well worth reading…if nothing else, to put things back into a more common-sense perspective.
Edmund Dantes
@Joshua James: Exactly. No idea how everyone can forget these attacks. They helped to keep the tension ratcheted all the way up to 11 long after the September 11th attack.
TenguPhule
Selective Memory is a Republican Feature, not a bug.
John Cole
All of TBOGG’s titles are genius.
Scenes from a Maul was a classic.
PaminBB
It also seems as though the US is under attack from economic terrorists (aka bankers and financial houses). The visuals may not be as striking, but the damage is real.
Rosali
On preventing another attack: Remember the incompetent clowns from Miami known as the Liberty City 7? They were charged with plotting to blow up the Sears Tower even after it became evident that they couldn’t blow up a balloon and were just trying to get free boots from the FBI informant. Anyway, there have been 2 trials with hung juries because the govt could not get 12 jurors to agree that the 7 had an actual intent to support Al Qaida. But have no fear; the US will try them for a 3rd time beginning in 2 weeks.
Joshua Norton
That would have been nice, except for the fact that what did happen on his watch was horrific beyond belief. They all like to act as if Bush’s term officially started on 9/12. NOT preventing 9/11 is somehow lost in the babble.
Libby Spencer
Heh. I just did a post on this at my place (with pix). They have the logic logic all backwards.
Bush presided over the greatest, most damaging, most successful terrorist attack in the history of our nation. Not to mention presiding over the greatest failure of emergency response — Katrina.
Sam Simple
Prior to 9-11, there hadn’t been an attack on "American soil" since the War of 1812. Keep in mind that Hawai was NOT an American state in 1941. It was only due to to Bush and Condi Rice’s utter neglect and incompetence that 9-11 occurred. The duly elected president, Al Gore, would have never allowed 9-11 to happen.
bernarda
"intellect" is not a word that one usually associates with bottom-dwelling "thinker" Jonah Goldberg.
As to terrorist attacks, the Republican Party has been terrorizing simple Americans for decades. Except the very wealthy of course.
jewelbomb
WHAT ABOUT ANTHRAX!!!
p.a.
I understand we have to call bullshit on the bullshit so it doesn’t become CW, but I don’t understand the anger; this is all they’ve got What else can they push? And the only ones who even believe this are the 25% bitter-enders, the far left (on the bell curve). Laugh it off. I posted this several days ago, but I’ll repeat. At XMas dinner my homophobe wingnut cousin began his defense of Bush arguing how well GW has done fighting AIDS in Africa. And he probably has done well. But when a gaybashing racist rightard leads off his defense of Bush with that issue, you know they’re cooked.
The Grand Panjandrum
Without a doubt, even discounting for friendship, self-interest, and ideological bias, Rich thinks Jonah’s wife is far and away the most sensible woman on the planet for having married the Doughy Pantload.
liberal
@MBunge:
No way those guys will get on TV. They’re way too anti-neocon. (I’m a regular reader of antiwar.com.)
TenguPhule
Give them an inch and they’ll rob the country blind.
Rage rage against the dying of the light.
Duke of Earl
@Progressive Libertarian:
I’ve argued with people that I’m almost certain consider themselves liberal and they’ve told me the anthrax doesn’t count because "it was a disgruntled American" so it wasn’t a "real attack".
I wanted to put the bastard in the Murrah building early on April 19, 1995 and then ask him if he thought it was a real attack.
Duke of Earl
@Joshua Norton:
Meh, no one could have anticipated using airplanes as weapons.
Well, except for any American serviceman who lived through the Pacific Theater in WWII..
A known unknown, if you will.
TenguPhule
Exective Decisions starring Steven Seagal.
They made a damn movie about it years before.
Which is why Rice should have been whipped when she said "nobody could have anticipated".
Nylund
I was working in Manhattan in 2001. We could see the twin towers fall from our break room.
I remember voices being played on our company’s PA warning us not to touch our mail, that someone died from anthrax exposure from a letter that went through the same post office sorting center as the mail for our company (and my position involved more than the usual amount of mail). Then, of course, there was your personal mail when you got home to worry about.
As much as 9/11 affected me, in some ways, it was easier to accept the idea that a plane might crash into your building and just go on with your life as usual than it was to live in constant fear that any envelope or piece of paper you touch might kill you. I still have a weird fear of mail and post offices because of this.
hoi polloi
Is that the new standard: each President is judged by the number of attacks he allows after the first one?
Is there a window for the first one; you’re not responsible if one and only one catastrophic terrorist attack on American soil happens within the first 10 months of your term or something?
Does this rule apply to any President or only Republicans?
We need some guidelines, damnit!
TenguPhule
IOIYAR.
This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions, the Home Version.
Delia
If the sitting President is a Republican, only a massive assault on the Homeland counts as not keeping us safe. If the sitting President is a Democrat, if any American anywhere in the world gets his or her pocket picked by a non-American, that counts as a terrorist attack, and ergo, we are not safe and have been attacked, and any truly manly (i.e., Republican) commander-in chief would have ordered a massive retaliation against the terrorists in question.
Jay Levitt
There’s a phrase I saw a few days ago, which seems to have originated in a Dan Froomkin headline:
0 for 1.
That’s it. That’s the 10-word answer we needed. It’s not about the largest loss of civilian life; it’s not about whether there were or weren’t specific credible threats that we averted through FISA-prohibited wiretaps. It’s not about anthrax.
People who still believe that the Bush administration kept us safe believe it because it’s what their gut tells them. It’s not about logic and analysis; it’s not even about facts.
Bush apologists move the goalposts. They want to talk about "success in preventing another attack." We can’t let that happen.
The Bush administration’s record on terrorism: 0 for 1.
TenguPhule
9/11, Anthrax, Washington Sniper.
Never forget.
harlana pepper
What the FUCK do these people have to do to be so discredited that they are not asked to appear on MTP or any other such show? The fact that they are still given a national public platform is a grievous insult to viewer intelligence. See Bill Kristol.
Original Lee
I’m not sure you can count the Washington snipers as terrorist attacks. Yes, they what they were doing was intended to inspire fear, but IIRC the original intent was to inspire fear in the older guy’s ex-wife, because almost all of the incidents were near a Michael’s. And the authorities appeared to deal with it similarly to any other serial killing.
The anthrax attacks count, because the government responded as if they were terrorist attacks. I just loved me some irradiated envelopes and wearing latex gloves to get my mail, not to mention dealing with debt collectors and having my credit rating trashed because certain schmucks decided to ignore the fact that my mail was quarantined or rerouted. Plus a neighbor died and many people I know had to line up to get vaccinated.
liberal
@Duke of Earl:
Or anyone who’d read Tom Clancy’s Debt of Honor.
Andrew
Geez, that was about a suicide plane attack on the Capitol. 9/11 was like, on totally different buildings.
Kenneth Fair
Original Lee @55: Whatever the snipers’ motives may actually have been, the effect of their actions was to cause a great deal of fear and unrest in the D.C. area that was propagated throughout the national media. Indeed, the Virginia Supreme Court upheld the conviction and death sentence of John Allen Muhammad for capital murder in the commission of an act of terrorism.
bellatrys
As soon as it became clear that the attempt to tie them to Saddam Hussein was not going to fly, and the BBC started reporting on how it looked like they were an internal deal, "anthrax" dropped off the radar.
The interesting thing is that it didn’t just drop off the Bushco radar – it also dropped off the SCLM’s radar. I remember the NYT running a HUGE multipage spread about anthrax, and many followup articles, until the threads started to lead under the wrong doors, so to speak…
Gus
to be fair, no one watches Stephen Segal movies.
OriGuy
Does dropping bombs from balloons count? Between November 1944 and April 1945 Japan launched over 9,000 fire balloons. Only one was lethal, but several started fires. Only wartime censorship kept them from sparking panic.
Zuzu's Petals
@OriGuy:
And don’t forget the submarine bombardments on various docks and baseball fields on the West Coast.
Thom Jeff
Pure gold:
Our strongest ally Britain and Spain apparently deserved it. One might wonder what France deserves in Jonah’s twisted mind.
Rich Lowry
We’re WINNING!
r€nato
@ Delia:
If a terrorist attack happens five weeks into a Democratic presidency, it’s entirely the president’s fault. (1st WTC bombing 1993)
If a terrorist attack happens eight full months into a GOP presidency, it’s entirely the predecessor’s fault, if the guy happens to be a Democrat. Otherwise, it’s Carter’s fault.
SATSQ, Home Edition new and improved.
Reverend Dennis
Back in 2002, John Muhammed and Lee Malvo killed ten people in the Beltway sniper attacks. The murders created a climate of widespread fear. Muhammed and Malvo accomplished the murders by sniping their victims with a shoplifted M16 knockoff through a hole drilled in the trunk of a ’91 Chevy Caprice. The notion that terrorists couldn’t get into the country the same way that several million illegal aliens have done and that they couldn’t then get their hands on a cheap semi-automatic weapon and a used car is ludicrous. It’s almost as ludicrous as the notion that the Bush administration, which has thoroughly bungled everything it put its hand to, was somehow 100% successful in preventing another terrorist attack. The terrorists haven’t attacked because they no longer need to: George W. Bush has fucked up America beyond bin Laden’s wildest dreams.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@TenguPhule: Not a Seagal fan, but for what it’s worth, the band Soul Coughing anticipated the plane/building thing in 1994. The song is "Is Chicago, Is Not Chicago" off the album "Ruby Vroom." Just like several blues singers anticipated the levees around New Orleans breaking back in the 1920s.