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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Night Open Thread

Monday Night Open Thread

by John Cole|  June 15, 20095:25 pm| 111 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Some quick hits because I’m too lazy for separate posts.

1.) Maybe I’m being overly cynical about the American warblogger coverage. I had a conversation with one person who noted that at least this time, unlike 2003, bloggers aren’t cheering on a war, they are cheering on fair elections. I can get that, but some of it just seems so over the top on our end, and we have nothing personally at stake while the folks over there have everything at stake. Who knows. Maybe I learned all the wrong lessons from the past decade, but for right now, I’m just going to hope for the best.

2.) I’m behind on my podcasts, but I listened to the May 30th Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me with special guest Robert Earl Keen, and it was one of the funniest hours of the show that I can remember.

3.) The Stanley Cup Champion Penguins had a parade today.

4.) On my way home today, I saw a good looking sedan, and wondered if it was a Volvo or Honda, and as I got closer, I was stunned to see that it was a Chevy Malibu. I’m one of those unAmerican types who is, for the most part, wholly uninterested in cars, but I thought it was pretty good looking.

5.) Lily is doing well, and we are so over the crate. Also, she is starting to prance and smile while we walk, which is really gratifying. She also is starting to respond when I call.

6.) What happened to Bill Kristol?

7.) House Dems planning to change how the CIA conducts briefings. Good.

That is all I have for now. I’ll be back later.

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Previous Post: « Also, I’ll Have Kale, Spinach and Peas For Dinner
Next Post: I thought we were all Iranians now »

Reader Interactions

111Comments

  1. 1.

    demkat620

    June 15, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Yeah, the Malibu is a nice looking car. Will I get viciously savaged if I confess to owning and loving a Chrysler?

    And I am glad to hear the crate is gone. Yeah Lily!

  2. 2.

    robertdsc

    June 15, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    You mentioned the other day that you have two children, Tunch and Lily. Somehow, I never thought of you andTunch in father/son terms. I can easily see father/daughter terms for Lily, but not Tunch. Am I weird?

    I’m not gonna call Sidney Crosby Cindy anymore. That Cup goes a long way.

  3. 3.

    KG

    June 15, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Nothing happened to Bill Kristol, read that last paragraph again: it’s all about the Obamafail. It’s also about framing the Obamafail to the political advantage of the GOP. The stuff about the Iranian revolution is just backdrop for scoring cheap political points.

    On the other hand, it may be a sign that they are learning from (some of) their mistakes.

  4. 4.

    Surreal American

    June 15, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    No! I don’t want Kristol on my side!

    He knows by now that he’s a reliable indicator of wrong-headed ideas, doesn’t he? This is just his way of sabotaging Obama.

    Deviously clever of Kristol.

  5. 5.

    Zifnab

    June 15, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    Shorter Kristol: Ok, guys. Fun is fun and all, but now shit is getting serious. We could totally get Obama to invade Iran. So everyone stay calm, put down the glue, straighten your straight jackets, and let’s act like mature adults for once or no one will take us seriously when we break out into another stirring rendition of “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!”

  6. 6.

    schrodinger's cat

    June 15, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    I never thought of you and Tunch in father/son terms.

    More like boss and minion, I think. My husband calls our boy cat, Boss cat, while the girl cat is daughter. Boss cat has tons of attitude and is grumpy, not unlike Tunch.

  7. 7.

    Reks

    June 15, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    I do think we have a couple things at stake.

    1) Not to allow the neocons to ramp up tensions with Iran. Obviously much easier to accomplish with an Ahmadinejad hard-line govt.

    2) Prevent Israel from attacking Iran. We don’t need that shit, considering we have 100,000 plus soldiers next door in Iraq who have their hands full.

  8. 8.

    JenJen

    June 15, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    6.) What happened to Bill Kristol?

    Just read it, and as far as I can see, nothing. He sounds as dickish as he always has, with his “urge them to do what they should be doing” crap. Advice from “Mr. Wrong About Everything” always amuses!

    Am I missing something?

  9. 9.

    boomshanka

    June 15, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    unlike 2003, bloggers aren’t cheering on a war, they are cheering on fair elections.

    Of course, while everyone is rightfully suspicious, I don’t think there is any actual evidence that the election wasn’t fair. I think a lot a people are just upset that the “wrong side” lost as far as we know at the moment. If people want to cheer on an uprising or a civil war, it’s their right to do so, but that would be very similar to 2003.

    For a sober take, as always, check out Larison.

  10. 10.

    LD50

    June 15, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    What happened to Bill Kristol?

    We can assume Kristol has some specific, selfish reason for feeling that he needs to kiss Obama’s ass for the moment.

    Shorter Kristol: Ok, guys. Fun is fun and all, but now shit is getting serious. We could totally get Obama to invade Iran. So everyone stay calm, put down the glue, straighten your straight jackets, and let’s act like mature adults for once or no one will take us seriously when we break out into another stirring rendition of “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!”

    Nailed it.

  11. 11.

    Captain Goto

    June 15, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Used’tabee, I woulda been there on Carson Street by Mario’s [NOT the team owner, btw], around the time of night when the boys were showing off the Cup and spraying champagne on the crowd this past Saturday.

    Nowadays…that was me, back at home, sound asleep, after walking all over town with my fiancee (picking up the ring, and trying on about sixteen suits in anticipation of tying the knot)…

    I dunno about this old age crap…

  12. 12.

    Krista

    June 15, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    This picture amuses me — I never realized the little critters were capable of such facial expressions. I can’t figure out if he looks more like Mel Brooks, or like Calvin from the Calvin & Hobbes comic.

  13. 13.

    Comrade Stuck

    June 15, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    6.) What happened to Bill Kristol?

    When I saw him on Fox Sunday, he radiated an after glow. I expect he burned a Marlboro after the Iran election segment.

  14. 14.

    Captain Goto

    June 15, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    boomshanka–IIRC, it was very suspicious that the new guy lost even in his accepted strongholds by large margins to Ahmadinejad.

  15. 15.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    June 15, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    Unlike say Rush Limbaugh, William Kristol’s schtick has really never been to just deride any Democrat for its own sake. That is, Limbaugh or Beck or any of them will just take whatever position happens to be against the Democratic President, and switch theirs at a moment’s notice to do so, like when Limbaugh suddenly decided that “getting tough” with pirates was now bad because it was Obama who did.

    Kristol on the other hand is all about war. If he thinks there’s a chance to get Obama to start one, he’s all over that. And of course if Obama fails to wage the war Kristol wants, AKA “do the right thing”, then he’s laying the groundwork for blaming him for that “failure”, right there in the post.

  16. 16.

    Carnacki

    June 15, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    The problem is Lily’s real name is Scout and she is wondering who this Lily is you keep calling.

  17. 17.

    tim

    June 15, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    John, you are spot-on about American war bloggers, epitomized by the Daily Douche, being over the top, emotional in a weirdly wtf? way, and being guilty of posting entirely unverifiable material simply, apparently, because said material comes in the form of that new sensation, Tweets, and being all in the groove on the latest tech stuff makes them all, like, revolutionary and hip and such.

    As I wrote earlier, but which disappeared in comments, Sully loves to pretend he’s on the front lines in Iraq or running thru the streets of Tehran (face bandanna’d, natch) while he luxuriates on the beaches of Provincetown and enjoys the success to which pundits who are utterly wrong about everything are apparently entitled in America.

    For someone so concerned about credible, democratic elections in Iran, Sullied was oddly unconcerned about not so credible election processes in the U.S. over the last nine years or so.

    But what the hell? Know Hope! God is Great! and all…

  18. 18.

    Matt

    June 15, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    And the sun sets on this grand experiment known as America:

    Some News [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

    I will soon be stepping aside as editor of National Review Online. I’m not going too far. I’ll still be contributing to NRO with ideas and content, and if you are an author or reader you might not notice much of a change. I’ll probably still be bugging you for pieces if you’re an author and I’ll still be traffic-copping the Corner. But I will be moving my primary base of operation in the fall from New York to D.C., and will no longer honcho NRO on a day-by-day basis.

    Hehehehe she said ideas.

  19. 19.

    Jon H

    June 15, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    @boomshanka: “Of course, while everyone is rightfully suspicious, I don’t think there is any actual evidence that the election wasn’t fair.”

    There’s plenty of evidence.

  20. 20.

    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse

    June 15, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    @Krista: Ha! I saw Calvin right away, but now I’m seeing Bill the Cat, too.

  21. 21.

    Krista

    June 15, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    3.) The Stanley Cup Champion Penguins had a parade today.

    Man, if Sidney brings it home with him when he gets his day with it, this entire province is going to go a little nuts. I don’t know if the Cup has ever been here — my great-uncle Bill played for the Toronto St. Pat’s when they won the Cup back in 1922, but I don’t know if that tradition (of each player having a day with it) would have been around then.

  22. 22.

    Jon H

    June 15, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    @Captain Goto: “boomshanka—IIRC, it was very suspicious that the new guy lost even in his accepted strongholds by large margins to Ahmadinejad”

    The new guy isn’t even new – he was Prime Minister in the 80s, so for older folks at least name recognition wouldn’t be a problem.

  23. 23.

    Mister Papercut

    June 15, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    @demkat620:

    Will I get viciously savaged if I confess to owning and loving a Chrysler?

    Only if it’s a PT Cruiser.

  24. 24.

    R-Jud

    June 15, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Our big cat came limping in this AM with a piece of someone else’s claw stuck in his leg. He purred the entire time the vet was handling him, and then some more when we gave him bits of last night’s roast.

    We’re flying to the US in two weeks. Any experienced parents have advice about traveling with a baby? Ours is generally placid but we don’t want to antagonize other passengers (or get booted out over Iceland).

  25. 25.

    boomshanka

    June 15, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    @Jon H:

    There’s plenty of evidence.

    Uh, such as? I’ve read lots of unverified rumor and conjecture. Also read about pre-election polls that showed a sizeable lead for A-Jad. I’ve heard things that raise suspicion, but have seen no concrete evidence that the vote wasn’t fair.

  26. 26.

    Matt

    June 15, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Did anyone else see this? WTF?

  27. 27.

    Leszek Pawlowicz

    June 15, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    You want a funny podcast? Try The Bugle:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/the_bugle/

  28. 28.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 15, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    2.) I’m behind on my podcasts, but I listened to the May 30th Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me with special guest Robert Earl Keen, and it was one of the funniest hours of the show that I can remember.

    Listened to that one yesterday. A classic. REK is also great live, although the frat-boy quotient can be high.

    And, congrats to the Pens for winning the CUP. Anyone not named The Detroit Red Wings who wins is great, in my book.

  29. 29.

    Surreal American

    June 15, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    But I will be moving my primary base of operation in the fall from New York to D.C., and will no longer honcho NRO on a day-by-day basis.

    Honcho is a verb? Let me guess: K-Lo supports making English the sole official language of the United States. She just loves the language too much to use it grammatically.

    Being the NRO editor is sort of like being Rush Limbaugh’s fact-checker, isn’t it?

  30. 30.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    June 15, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    @demkat620:

    Will I get viciously savaged if I confess to owning and loving a Chrysler?

    I’m trying not to make jokes in response to this. I really am. There are so many though.

  31. 31.

    boomshanka

    June 15, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    I should emphasize that I think the election could very well have been fixed, but we just haven’t found any proof yet. We’re just supporting the side that we wanted to win.

  32. 32.

    Trollhattan

    June 15, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    @ Mister Papercut:

    My bro- and sister-in-law got a shiny new PC Cruiser recently, and I got no response to the question, “So, when you first got in it could you feel the extra twenty years right away?”

    For whatever reason I’m still occasionally invited over.

    IMHO the Malabu is a handsome contemporary design, lightyears better looking than the current Banglebutt Camry, which doubtless outsells it 100:1. Too little, too late and all that. (Not that I have any idea how it drives.)

    Useful hint for reading Kristol: imagine that goddamn crooked smirk of his while you’re reading. Keeps things in context.

  33. 33.

    JenJen

    June 15, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    @Matt: Oh, no. Why is she moving to DC? I’m concerned!

  34. 34.

    CalD

    June 15, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    @Matt: I didn’t actually see the original post, but PoliticalWire reported on DePass’ apology for the gorilla thing this morning.

    The other thing was news to me. It’s like they want to be punished…

  35. 35.

    Jon H

    June 15, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    @boomshanka: “I should emphasize that I think the election could very well have been fixed, but we just haven’t found any proof yet. We’re just supporting the side that we wanted to win”

    The Ahmedinejad government certainly didn’t *act* like they’d won cleanly.

  36. 36.

    Trollhattan

    June 15, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    @ Matt #26

    Jeebuz, that’s repellant. It’s not pretty seeing all these racists uncloset themselves at once, but I guess I’m not surprised.

    Now, who’ll be the first gooper to tell us Shawna Forde is a leftist?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009338951_forde15.html

  37. 37.

    Comrade Tudor

    June 15, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    “What happened to Bill Kristol?”

    Oh noes. Since William the bloody always gives the opposite of good advice, then the Republicans must be doing something right. I mean, the man has been wrong about every single major idea he’s come up with, to the point that I automatically believe the opposite of whatever he says. This has just thrown my brain for a loop…

  38. 38.

    Sarcastro

    June 15, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    The new ‘boo, aside from the hideous grille, looks just like a Ford 500 or a Dodge Charger. Slab-sided, flat-nosed and with just a hint of fastback. They look OK I guess, but the Maserati Quattroporte isn’t turning over the sedan beauty crown just yet.

  39. 39.

    Jon H

    June 15, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    @demkat620: “Will I get viciously savaged if I confess to owning … a Chrysler?”

    I think we all do, now.

  40. 40.

    John O

    June 15, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    You’re attitude about Iran is spot-on, as usual. The good news is that Obama is preternaturally cautious, often to my chagrin when it comes to taking what is his by the votes, and doesn’t EVER overreact. It’s his primary personal characteristic.

    But in more important matters, great news on Lily!!!!

    Existential question: Am I the only for whom the name “Bambi” came to mind for that sweet, neglected thing?

    She’s got some abandoned doe in her to my eye and your descriptions.

    You’re a good man, John Cole.

  41. 41.

    PeopleAreNoDamnGood

    June 15, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    My first reaction was, “Is it a Neon?”

  42. 42.

    Gordon, The Big Express Engine

    June 15, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    @R-Jud: Feed the baby liquids (nursing or bottle) on take off. The swallowing helps with the ears. Do the same on the approach for landing.

    Other than that, not much you can do. I assume you are coming from Europe, so it will be a long flight. Bring an assortment of toys, books etc.

    A lot of times when they cry they are just tired, if so, get up and walk around and if you are lucky they will fall asleep for a while.

    We used miles to get an extra seat a couple of times – not bad on the longer flights.

  43. 43.

    Zifnab

    June 15, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    @Trollhattan:

    My bro- and sister-in-law got a shiny new PC Cruiser recently

    A PC Cruiser? I hear those have a tendency to crash.

  44. 44.

    MobiusKlein

    June 15, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    The blogospheric chatter about Iran reminds me of all the attention about the Burma revolution that was completely crushed.

    Sullivan and other got all excited about that, and now it’s gone from their memory. It’s not a sport where we can feel excited cheering when our team wins.

  45. 45.

    Jon H

    June 15, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Scary thought: As bad as Iran’s government is, they haven’t chosen to go the Tianamen route.

    Which means the current Hitler of the world isn’t as bad as the country that does all our manufacturing.

  46. 46.

    John O

    June 15, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    I would’ve bought the 300M had it been out in the days I was too young to care about “value.”

    (Actually, my first two cars–post actual job–were Nissan Sentras, 16 years worth, only the second with A/C none with e-windows. So I’ve actually always been kind of concerned with value, and also know one happy Chrysler owner, so surely many are happy with theirs.)

  47. 47.

    JL

    June 15, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Why no Tunch and Lily pictures?

  48. 48.

    Lyle4

    June 15, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Also read about pre-election polls that showed a sizeable lead for A-Jad.

    What polls do you speak of? Also keep in mind the campaigns havent’s ramped until the last month or so. There was never any good, concrete polling done. Are you speaking of the one that appeared in the WaPo? This one?

    More to the point, however, the poll that appears in today’s op-ed shows a 2 to 1 lead in the thinnest sense: 34 percent of those polled said they’d vote for Ahmadinejad, 14 percent for Mousavi. That leaves 52 percent unaccounted for. In all, 27 percent expressed no opinion in the election, and another 15 percent refused to answer the question at all. Six Eight percent said they’d vote for none of the listed candidates; the rest for minor candidates. One should be enormously wary of the current value of a poll taken so far before such a heated contest, particularly one where more than half of voters did not express an opinion.

  49. 49.

    Jen R

    June 15, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    I just got a text message spam. Is there anything I can do to complain about it? I have the number it came from.

  50. 50.

    Trollhattan

    June 15, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    @ Zinfab:

    Politcally Correct Cruiser, I guess. Sheesh :-(

  51. 51.

    Violet

    June 15, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    but some of it just seems so over the top on our end, and we have nothing personally at stake while the folks over there have everything at stake.

    Yeah, we don’t have anything at stake in the sense that we’re not going to get beat up by the secret police or usher in a new era of free elections here, as a result of what’s happening in Iran. But an Iran that treats its people more fairly, where women have more freedom and rights, one that we can engage with more fairly and that generally is more open and democratic would be beneficial to our interests in the long run. So to say we have nothing at stake is not completely right. Although I suppose we’ve got nothing “personally” at stake. The Basiji is not going to come beat up my computer or disappear my family.

    Lily sounds so happy. It warms my heart to hear she’s done with the crate and frolicking along with you on walks. She knows she’s got a forever home. Awww…

  52. 52.

    geg6

    June 15, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    I just want it noted that I am seriously the BEST AUNT WHO EVER LIVED. I spent this past weekend in two different un-air conditioned high school auditoriums sitting through two separate dance recitals. One lasted three and a half hours and featured mostly talented young people and solos by extremely talented youngster over the course of 37 dances. The other lasted over 5 hours and featured many fewer talented ones and solos by the dance studio owner’s daughter with a couple of others like my niece thrown in just to mix it up a little. There were 82 dances, with the owner’s daughter featured in 37 of them, either solo or lead dancer of a group. And people wonder why I’m sour on the idea of parenthood.

  53. 53.

    ironranger

    June 15, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    @ Matt, Disgusting. They’re only sorry when they are caught but it does seem a little odd that there have been so many racist emails in just the last few days.

  54. 54.

    Jon H

    June 15, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    @MobiusKlein: “The blogospheric chatter about Iran reminds me of all the attention about the Burma revolution that was completely crushed.”

    Seems like this one has more establishment-level support, although the opposition doesn’t control the instruments of power.

    Also, I think Iran at least has notions of proper procedure, and the government has some level of concern about appearances, while Burma just has the bugfuck nuts Junta who are completely arbitrary and don’t care about anything but their own security.

  55. 55.

    Ash

    June 15, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    @Jen R: There’s some info on that here, but honestly, from what I’ve tried, there’s not much you can do about text spam. :\

  56. 56.

    gwangung

    June 15, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    I should emphasize that I think the election could very well have been fixed, but we just haven’t found any proof yet.

    Argh.

    Evidence != Proof.

    Get out of binary thinking. You are quite allowed to make conclusions that are tentative and subject to revision pending further evidence.

  57. 57.

    JenJen

    June 15, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    @CalD: That asshole DePass didn’t apologize. He issued the classic passive-aggressive-non-apology: “I’m sorry if you were offended.”

    Ta-Nehisi Coates has written well on this topic, [link:ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/06/the_problem_of_apology.php|here] and [link:ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/06/the_problem_of_apology_part_2.php|again here], in response to a sickeningly racist email sent out by a GOP legislative aide in Tennessee.

  58. 58.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    @Matt:

    Why are you surprised? That’s the least surprising thing I’ve ever seen.

  59. 59.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    If Tennessee republicans weren’t emailing racist things around I’d be shocked.

  60. 60.

    gbear

    June 15, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    The Malibu caught my eye too and I mentioned it to my mechanic when I brought my 2000 4wd Ranger with 140k miles in for an oil change. The truck had been going thru a period of frequent expensive repairs and I was thinking about a new vehicle. Maybe the Malibu?
    My mechanic told me flat out (and everyone in the shop agreed) that I’d be in the shop more often with a new Malibu than with my old 4wd truck. I haven’t looked at them again since then.

  61. 61.

    Fulcanelli

    June 15, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    @R-Jud: Be sure and toss an extra blankie in the child’s crate. Those baggage compartments are still cold this time of year over the North Atlantic. Plumber’s putty works well in the ears.

    @geg6: Yeah, well I’m the best Dad that ever lived. I’ve gone to close to 20 dance recitals, and over twice as many Band and Chorus concerts with my two daughters and I’m not finished yet.

    If I ever went to a Dance recital that lasted over five hours with 82 dances with the owner’s daughter in 37 of them in a hot auditorium I’d have the owner kneecapped.

    Considering Obama’s recent Mea Culpa in Cairo regarding the USA’s involvement in the 1953 Iranian coup and installment of the Shah, he damn well should keep quiet. Let them sort it out.

  62. 62.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    June 15, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Anyone who doesn’t think the election in Iran looks fishy is deluding themself.

    If there’s a more expertish expert on the Middle East than Juan Cole, I’d sure like to know who it is. And he flat-out says the election was rigged.

    @Krista:

    Haha! That’s great. Hamsters have such loose, floppy cheeks that they can contort themselves into all sorts of faces when stuffing food in there. They’re basically just a big stretchable furry bag to put stuff in. I’ve had hamsters that stuffed so much food in their cheek that it looked like they were growing a second head.

    Giving pasta to a hamster is a good idea now and then–but cook it first!

  63. 63.

    Matt

    June 15, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Why are you surprised? That’s the least surprising thing I’ve ever seen.

    I didn’t say I was surprised.

    More like disappointed that adults, who are in positions of authority and influence, act and think this way.

  64. 64.

    LD50

    June 15, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    @Matt: Their notpology is classic stuff too: “Oh! Ha ha! You’re weren’t meant to get that! I deeply apologize for sending that to the wrong people!”

  65. 65.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    June 15, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    Oh and hooray for Lily! Pictures, pictures!

  66. 66.

    boomshanka

    June 15, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    @Lyle4:

    That’s one poll, certainly, which despite it’s flaws still shows that A-Jad had a big lead. It doesn’t disprove that the election was fixed, but it doesn’t help either.

    @gwangung:

    I guess we could simply seek reliable evidence.

    I could tell you that my brother is in Tehran and he was prevented from voting for the opposition by police, and that would be evidence of a rigged election. I course I’m lying, but that wouldn’t prevent Sullivan from posting it or people from making uninformed conclusions based on it.

  67. 67.

    DemonDem

    June 15, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Re: republicans e-mailing under the influence (of bigotry) – Anybody else notice that the woman who sent that tripe made no indication that she recognized that the material itself was offensive?

    She was asked multiple times if she realized why the e-mail was “controversial” (I think the phrase “racist bile” more appropriate, but what the hell) and all she could say was that she felt bad she hit the wrong button – like that was the mistake?

    “I’m so sorry I’ve accidentally sent this to people who live in the 21st century…if I had just sent this to the list of my other bigotes, small-minded friends, then none of the liberals and negro-lovers would have seen it, and me and my ‘real American’ GOP buddies could have had a laugh without anybody finding out.”

    UGH – where do these people come from and why don’t they get it?

    On a related note – any suggestion on how to deal with in-laws who inundate you in-box with this shit? I mean, tactics that don’t completely ruin the next ten family gatherings? I’ve considered threatening to restrict access to grandchildren if they don’t knock it off, but there needs to actually BE grandchildren for that to work…

  68. 68.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    June 15, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    Was listening to Limbaugh today in the car he called POTUS “a know it all” (snort), “arrogant” (snort) “thinks he is smarter than he is” coming from a know it all, arrogant, college drop out that is lol funny, he then finished the sentence with “I can’t stand people like that”. I swear the man is comedy gold these days.

  69. 69.

    JL

    June 15, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    @Krista: Many years ago my son’s kindergarten class was having a contest to see who would bring home the hamsters for the summer. I learned a very valuable lesson. There was only one entrant for the contest.

  70. 70.

    Fulcanelli

    June 15, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    @DemonDem:

    On a related note – any suggestion on how to deal with in-laws who inundate you in-box with this shit? I mean, tactics that don’t completely ruin the next ten family gatherings? I’ve considered threatening to restrict access to grandchildren if they don’t knock it off, but there needs to actually BE grandchildren for that to work…

    Sign them up for all those neat pills that grow certain parts of the male anatomy, or how to buy cheap watches or Nigerian investment opportunities… then add their e-mail address to your spam filter.

  71. 71.

    JenJen

    June 15, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    It really isn’t an Open Thread without a music video, is it? Love the song, and one of the more creative videos in a long time.

  72. 72.

    JL

    June 15, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    @DemonDem: I received bogus emails and tried sending links to Snopes but that didn’t help. I finally sent a note and asked not to be included on their email list unless they have verified the information first. I also said that my time can be better spent without having to respond and correct bogus emails.

  73. 73.

    Bad Horse's Filly

    June 15, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    @Matt: OMG. I have no words.

  74. 74.

    Death By Mosquito Truck

    June 15, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    @geg6:

    And people wonder why I’m sour on the idea of parenthood.

    May I recommend fatherhood? You can skip whatever you want.

  75. 75.

    DemonDem

    June 15, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Ah – therein lies the problem – I’ve already made it abundantly clear that he and I do not share a sense of humor – especially where issues of politics and race are concerned, so I’m left to assume that he does it solely to irritate me. I can always just. Delete them, but was looking to see if others have creative solutions. Taking Fulcanelli’s suggestion, it’s entirely possible that my father-in-law is about to become the newest name on MoveOn.org’s mailing list…and the NAACP while I’m at it…

  76. 76.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    June 15, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    @DemonDem:

    That reminds me of bored sailors at sea who’s favorite prank was to send in those reply cards etc., that came in magazines, you have no idea how many free samples of tampons etc., were sent to Leading Seaman Joe Bloggs c/o HMS Ark Royal.

  77. 77.

    Bad Horse's Filly

    June 15, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    @DemonDem: That is perfect. Add HuffPo’s breaking news alerts, too. I say put him on as many liberal email lists that you can – eventually he’ll get it, if not, at least you have vented some.

    Also, if you need some new age, spiritual, woo-woo websites mailing lists to add his name to, I can get you a list.

  78. 78.

    Comrade Stuck

    June 15, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    File under True Colors

    A former chairman of the South Carolina Election Commission has apologized after his posting on Facebook suggested a gorilla that escaped form a Columbia zoo was an ancestor of first lady Michelle Obama. Minutes after the gorilla’s escape was reported Friday, Rusty DePass posted: “I’m sure it’s just one of Michelle’s ancestors — probably harmless.” The comment has since been deleted, but DePass confirmed to WIS-TV that he made it, apologizing and saying it was a joke about statements Obama has made about evolution.

    Hmmm. due Obama’s comments on evolution. I must have missed those. But I’m sure that was what he meant.

  79. 79.

    numbskull

    June 15, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Had a rental Malibu for several weeks earlier this year. I thought it was a great car on every level. Now, I am a numbskull, but I’m also a motorhead. The car handled, accelerated, and stopped very well. It was comfortable for front and rear seat passengers and everything fell to hand for the driver. Fuel mileage was good-to-exceptional.

    As to the maintenance considerations, it has scored well in some magazine medium-term tests. I don’t think it’s been around long enough to know what it’s long-term build issues are.

  80. 80.

    mp1900

    June 15, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    @R-Jud:

    Sit right in front of the bulkhead (i think that’s what it’s called). I traveled with my 6-month-old years ago and he cried until they seated us there, and then the thrum of the engines were lulling and put him right to sleep. Sucking on a bottle didn’t help him at all.

  81. 81.

    Salacious Crumb

    June 15, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    boomshanka, tim,

    couldnt agree with you any more on all the points. exactly my sentiments…me thinks that Ahmedinajad won but padded his lead in some areas to make it look like a MASSIVE victory…and in any case there is no definite factual proof of fraud…only indications of it, much of it hyped by the western media because the guy we don’t like won. just like we did with Hamas in Gaza…don’t like the guy who won? fuck him and and our notions of democracy.

    Thing is …we will never know if there is fraud..but its amazing to see the Daily Douche people and Puff Ho people hype the perception of fraud and turn it into a definite case without any actual evidence.

    in any case, I am always wary of these so called “revolutions” with young manicured people wearing CK underwears (kinda like Gucci revolutionary Chalabi) getting angry at what they perceive to be oppression. Sure their votes need to be counted, no doubt, but most of them come from upper middle class backgrounds, doing fairly well in Iran…and so their motives for such “protest” strikes me as a bit suspicious….i mean in those neighborhoods, they already have quite a bit of freedoms that the rest of Iran doesnt enjoy..their families probably have good connections with the ruling elite….so what they are really upset about, I cant quite tell..aside from perception of fraud….

    plus lets not forget that, unlikely as it may be, its possible that our spy agencies could be over instigating some of these protests, just like they did with the Orange and Purple revolutions in the former Soviet Republics..those revolutions were led by hip beautiful looking youngsters who wanted more western orientations and ended up voting duds such as Mikhail Saakhashvili, the guy guy most famous for promising the world he was gonna give Russia a bloody nose but ended up get a Russian boot up his ass.

    i

  82. 82.

    JL

    June 15, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Help, bunnies are devastating my garden. They tease the dog and seem to like red pepper. The garden is fenced but I nicknamed my backyard Warren, GA.

  83. 83.

    Comrade Stuck

    June 15, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    @Krista:

    I think that’s a Fancy Dwarf Hamster. I used to have bunches of them up until a few years ago. They are feisty characters, full of personality and expression. Unfortunately, they only live 2 years of less and I got tired of feeling sad when they died so soon.

  84. 84.

    gwangung

    June 15, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    in any case, I am always wary of these so called “revolutions” with young manicured people wearing CK underwears (kinda like Gucci revolutionary Chalabi) getting angry at what they perceive to be oppression. Sure their votes need to be counted, no doubt, but most of them come from upper middle class backgrounds, doing fairly well in Iran…and so their motives for such “protest” strikes me as a bit suspicious….i mean in those neighborhoods, they already have quite a bit of freedoms that the rest of Iran doesnt enjoy..their families probably have good connections with the ruling elite….so what they are really upset about, I cant quite tell..aside from perception of fraud….

    I should point out that you don’t get a revolution WITHOUT those sorts. You need people who are well educated and with economic power on the side of the revolutionaries and at least a split in the upper, moneyed class. Otherwise, superior firepower (economic, logistical and actual) will win all the time.

  85. 85.

    KyCole

    June 15, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    I wish I’d known about the hamster life span before we spent a whole summer keeping the cats away from the class pets. I even bought those little bastards a new cage, and then they died two weeks after school started.

  86. 86.

    xj - not the auto

    June 15, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    I hope to dog that we keep out of the Iranian’s internal affairs. We’re where we are because we didn’t 60 years ago. I sympathize with the green side, but the news from inside is so irregular that we can only guess what is happening. Other than Iranian immigrants to the US, we have almost no insight into the country, and we have to be careful about that – see Miami Cuban ex-pats. The knuckleheads who brought us the “axis of evil” will scream that we must intervene (whatever that means, but it can’t be good). I think we Americans are smart enough to walk away from that crap this time. What the interventionists think will happen will not – this is Iran, not Iowa. They may not act the way we think is right, logical, ethical, etc.

    On another note, I own a 10 year old Malibu and would buy one again. Parked outside most of it’s life – no rust. Runs good, 25 mpg highway, which is mostly what I drive now. I’d also buy another chrysler minivan – relatively cheap and reliable. I change the oil regularly on both – no more than 5k miles, usually less.

  87. 87.

    Salacious Crumb

    June 15, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    gwangung,

    what you say is partly true. yes, we need the educated elite folks, like Gandhi, Nehru, Mandela, all forward looking Western educated men, but these men then went on to the country side to start the revolution, they lived and and fought with the working masses and the disenfranchised, and they dedicated their life to it. These young educated ilk dont exactly look like the type would live in the poor rural areas, let alone fight for the truly oppressed rights. now Im not from Iran, but having lived in that part of the world, that much of these folks, probably havent spent much time with the ones truly oppressed by Ahmedinajad, and that’s because they, our CK revolutionaries, despise the poor chador wearing conservatives.

    There is an opinion peice by an Iranian graduate student in the Guardian..he says that Mousavi decided to sort of follow Obama by adopting text messages and Twitter as a way of spreading the message about voting and revolution..now the rural poor and the labor class conservatives, of which there is quite a few in Iran, cannot operate such technology, much less have the time to try one….so isnt there a disconnect in message? only adopting the game that only young urban educated elite can handle? how can one then say that Mousavi truly connected with the masses?

  88. 88.

    Cain

    June 15, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    @Salacious Crumb:

    Also consider those “designer” clothing might just be cheap knockoffs. :-)

    cain

  89. 89.

    Steeplejack

    June 15, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    @DemonDem:

    [. . .] any suggestion on how to deal with in-laws who inundate your in-box with this shit?

    Had this problem with a relative who has been sliding into “angry middle-aged white guy” mode over the last 10 years. What worked for me was (1) sending him the relevant Snopes.com links for the completely bullshit stuff and (2) ignoring the rest (the merely inflammatory). Believe me, it will do no good to argue with your in-laws or seek to “convince” them of anything. Think of them as trolls/spoofs.

    If they are really inundating you with stuff, it might be worthwhile to configure your e-mail client so that their e-mail gets shunted directly into its own folder, where you don’t have to face it until you have braced yourself with Zen meditation, a few drinks or both. I know you can configure Outlook with “rules” to, say, put all mail from such and such an address into a specific folder.

    Above all, don’t escalate. There are plenty of other areas where you can enjoy friction with your spouse’s parents!

    Edit: I think the thing that worked the best for me was giving my relative the impression that I either ignored the stuff he sent or (better) that it was so trivial it slipped my mind. “Oh, that Vince Foster/black helicopter/murder conspiracy thing? Yeah, I guess I saw it. I don’t really remember.” Don’t let your in-laws think that they are getting a rise out of you.

  90. 90.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    “I’m so sorry I’ve accidentally sent this to people who live in the 21st century…if I had just sent this to the list of my other bigots, small-minded friends, then none of the liberals and negro-lovers would have seen it, and me and my ‘real American’ GOP buddies could have had a laugh without anybody finding out.”
    UGH – where do these people come from and why don’t they get it?

    Come on down to sunny North Florida!

    Seriously, the whole town of Lake City was gloomy on November 5th. One person in town told me “Now the coloreds’ll be totally unmanageable.” and the ‘real American’ thing is verbatim. An elderly woman who moved up here from the Tampa-St. Pete area told me she did it to “move back to Real America”.

    When I get my camera back I’ll try to take a photo of the guy with the lifted red 4×4 who drives around here with a 4’x6′ confederate flag flapping from a special bar he mounted in the truck bed.

  91. 91.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    On a related note – any suggestion on how to deal with in-laws who inundate you in-box with this shit?

    “I really don’t want this kind of email, please.”

    or if you want to be more vicious, but displace the blame to someone else, try something like “You can’t send me emails like this. I check my email from work sometimes and if my bosses see really racist stuff like this I’ll get fired.”

  92. 92.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    Back when I had money I regularly sent some to the ACLU. Having not had much money the last couple years, I let my membership expire. You have no idea how many goddam emails and postcards I get from them asking me to renew.

    So send in $20 to them under his name and mailing address, is my suggestion. The gift that keeps on giving.

  93. 93.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Okay I took a screenshot to give you some idea.

    annoying emails

  94. 94.

    BethanyAnne

    June 15, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Steeplejack, if you are around, I’m glad you liked VLC. I was asking about typography because I noticed this XKCD. :-)

  95. 95.

    DemonDem

    June 15, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    @SteepleJack, Steve S., et. al –

    Sorry to be so late in replying – got caught up in the home-from-work-and-have-things-that-need-to-be-done routine.

    Thanks for talking me off the metaphorical ledge, and reminding me that it could always be worse. In truth, I love my in-laws in most respects, and they are very, VERY good to me – despite my being a liberal-commie-pinko-queer-hippie or whatever. I’m generally fairly good about tolerating their nonsense with good humour, but occasionally it really gets me going, particularly when I’ve been looking at the ridiculousness that people outside my family decide to engage in. In this case, I had gotten that same godforsaken “44 presidential portraits” e-mail like a week ago, so the post brought back the frustration.

    Either way, I think SteepleJack’s suggestion to pretend like it’s so unimportant I’ve already forgotten is the most appropriate (and most diplomatic) route. The meditation and the drinks will come in handy at other times, and if I can find a way to do it unbeknownst to my spouse’s loving parents, my father-in-law might just have to cope with occasional (as in three times daily) e-mails from David Plouffe and George Soros. And Jesse Jackson. And Ariana Huffington. And NAMBLA (just kidding on the last one).
    Joking aside, you are absolutely right – this is not something worth escalating, and I appreciate the sincere advice. I like this place!

  96. 96.

    DemonDem

    June 15, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    @ Steve S –

    Come on down to sunny North Florida!

    Have been to North Florida, and know your pain. I grew up in small town midwest, and every time I go home, I’m amazed at the number of pickups with “stars and bars” on the back even though we’re like 300 miles north of the Mason-Dixon line.
    Just tell me, because I want my snotty-liberal-elitist-socialist prejudices to be fully true to form – does the pickup with the confederate flag on it have a Dale Earnhardt #3 sticker with wings on it and a big-ass set of TruckNutz? If not, I know some people from Southern Wisconsin who can show him a thing or two about the “real Amurica.” [sic]

  97. 97.

    garyb50

    June 15, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Open Thread, right?

    I read constantly & can’t think of one book I’ve read twice even though there are some I say I will but never do.

    Same with movies – except for ‘The Big Lebowski.’ My wife bought the CD this past weekend & I just watched it again (this may be the 5th or 6th time) & I think I like it better than I ever did.

  98. 98.

    Steeplejack

    June 15, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    @BethanyAnne:

    Haw! That’s hilarious. I do have one friend in particular, a photographer and artist, who basically thinks more fonts are more better. (Weird, because she has an excellent eye as a photographer.) I get the twitching when I hear, “Would you look over this business card/letterhead/flyer I designed?” Shudder.

  99. 99.

    steve s

    June 15, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Yeah, I spent a lot of time living in Raleigh, Durham, then Chapel Hill, and I came back here and within a week I heard somebody bitchin’ about “White girls marryin’ coloreds”. That’s when it really hit me where I was again. But not for long. Within a year I’m getting back to somewhere intelligent.

  100. 100.

    tripletee (formerly tBone)

    June 15, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    @Gordon, The Big Express Engine:

    @R-Jud: Feed the baby liquids (nursing or bottle) on take off.

    Preferably whiskey.

    IMO, trying to navigate the airports with all of the baby paraphernalia is usually worse than the actual flight. Go over your packing list carefully and only take the stuff you think you will absolutely need. Then throw out half of the crap you have left on the list.

  101. 101.

    DemonDem

    June 15, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Final rant for the night, or my better half will kill me…I know, I guess “where” these people come from – it’s they “why” that perplexes me so. Do they really have so little in their lives that they can spend all this time hating people that don’t look like them? I mean, even if I were in the market for becoming a bigot, I wouldn’t have the time for it.I live in a mixed-race community because my spouse and I deliberately wanted to live in a diverse place. I grew up in lilly-white rural America, and figured our childrens’ (when we have them) lives would be much the better if they grew up around and got to know people who were different from them. I have neighbors here who go on and on about “those people” and I’m like “Why do you care?” – I tell them all the same thing – there are good people in this world and there are assholes, and you’ll have a lot easier time sorting out the one from the other if you don’t use skin color as a criteria. I’ve met people of color in my life who I thought were total jerks, but also a lot of really terrific people, and if you go by the numbers, solely by virtue of population percentages, you’ll see that you know a whole lot more assholes of your own race than of other races. Given all that has changed in this country in the last 50 years, why on earth to people feel its worth it to go through the extraordinary levels of energy required to read up on (false) things about other groups of people and then get all angry and bitter about it? I prefaced this by saying it was a rant – so there you go.

  102. 102.

    Steeplejack

    June 15, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    @garyb50:

    I read constantly & can’t think of one book I’ve read twice even though there are some I say I will but never do.

    Don’t know how old you are, but if you’re young that may change as you get older. You’ll want to go back (with mingled hope and trepidation) to that book that made such a huge impression on you in college to see if it “holds up.” Some do, some don’t.

    And at some point it will be so long since you have read one of your very favorite “desert island” books that you’ll want to go back and reacquaint yourself with it.

    Some of my regularly revisited favorites: The Great Gatsby, Yasunari Kawabata’s Thousand Cranes, Jorge Luis Borges’s Ficciones, James Joyce’s Dubliners, J.D. Salinger’s Nine Stories, Lawrence Durrell’s The Alexandria Quartet.

    Same thing with movies, to a lesser extent, because they seem to recur naturally on TV whether you’re looking for them or not. The Big Lebowski is a gem. Jeff Bridges probably deserved to at least be nominated for an Oscar for that, except, oh, yeah, they don’t give ’em out for comedy.

    Whenever I run across any of Hayao Miyazaki’s movies I can’t not watch them all the way through: My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, Kiki’s Delivery Service, etc.

  103. 103.

    BethanyAnne

    June 16, 2009 at 12:01 am

    @Steeplejack: lol, I have a friend I can make visibly twitch with the words “brush script” :-)

  104. 104.

    Steeplejack

    June 16, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Late-night typographical testing . . .

    Text in block quote. Not bold, I hope.

    Back to normal text.

    Edit: Fail. Damn you, WordPress.

  105. 105.

    demimondian

    June 16, 2009 at 12:09 am

    @BethanyAnne: Cringe. Shudder.

    *twitch*

    That was cruel.

  106. 106.

    TenguPhule

    June 16, 2009 at 12:16 am

    On a related note – any suggestion on how to deal with in-laws who inundate you in-box with this shit? I mean, tactics that don’t completely ruin the next ten family gatherings?

    I understand there is a function called ignore/bounce/spam that can be then blamed on your ISP when their inboxes get filled up with their own shit.

  107. 107.

    Steeplejack

    June 16, 2009 at 12:26 am

    @BethanyAnne:

    Brush Script?! Eek!

    I am very conservative with typography, but I do like me some Rock-a-Billy. I use a big capital letter on my envelopes. And I have a junk-food appreciation for the scores of “frosty” fonts used by convenience stores to advertise “ice cold beverages” (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

  108. 108.

    Kennedy

    June 16, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Jesus, now Sully is suggesting everyone change their Facebook profiles to support teh revolution in Iran.

    Quick, nobody buy gas tomorrow. We can work together to deprive the Iranian government of their monies! Also, make sure you Twitter about it.

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2009 at 2:11 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Some of my regularly revisited favorites: The Great Gatsby, Yasunari Kawabata’s Thousand Cranes, Jorge Luis Borges’s Ficciones, James Joyce’s Dubliners, J.D. Salinger’s Nine Stories, Lawrence Durrell’s The Alexandria Quartet.

    Damn fine reading list, especially the Alexandria Quartet. Every other year I read the best current translation of The Odyssey, and follow it up with Joyce’s Ulysses.

    Same thing with movies, to a lesser extent, because they seem to recur naturally on TV whether you’re looking for them or not.

    Whenever one of the local channels does a holiday broadcast of the version of Scrooge starring Alastair Sim, I end up watching the whole thing.

    The Big Lebowski is a gem. Jeff Bridges probably deserved to at least be nominated for an Oscar for that, except, oh, yeah, they don’t give ‘em out for comedy.

    Well, Shakespeare in Love won a few, including Best Picture, Best Actress, and Best Supporting Actor.

  110. 110.

    Ron

    June 16, 2009 at 3:36 am

    REK is a great storyteller, of the Townes van Zandt, Guy Clark tradition, but with a more palatable sound to folks more accustomed to rock and roll (‘Texas country’ or Americana is really just disguised rock from the ’50s, with the fiddle or mandolin or banjo thrown in with the steel guitar).

    He could have been a stand up comic, he is that funny — and he has a song (that he co-wrote with Lyle Lovett, when they were roommates at Texas A&M in the ’80s) that he plays every show where he breaks into an extended monologue for up to 5 or 10 minutes, just making the audience laugh.

    Great music, too.

  111. 111.

    Steeplejack

    June 16, 2009 at 9:22 am

    @Brachiator:

    Shakespeare in Love.

    Romantic comedy is almost a different genre. I meant comedy in the sense of a character that you laugh at (Jeff Bridges in The Big Lebowski) as opposed to a “normal” character caught in a comic situation (Gwyneth Paltrow in Shakespeare in Love).

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