No one could have predicted that something like this would happen:
Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC) will not be hosting any town hall events this August — instead, he’s making himself available to constituents for one-on-one meetings about health care reform — and at least part of the reason is this: His offices have received threatening phone calls, including at least one direct threat against his life.
“We had no town hall events scheduled for the August recess anyway, but in light of everything that’s happened — we have received a threatening phone call in the D.C. office, there have been calls to the Raleigh office,” said Miller communications director LuAnn Canipe, in an interview with TPM. The threatening call in question happened earlier this week.
“The call to the D.C. office was, ‘Miller could lose his life over this,'” said Canipe. “Our staffer took it so seriously, he confirmed what the guy was saying. He said, ‘Sir is that a threat?’ and at that time our staffer was getting the phone number off caller ID and turning it over to the Capitol Police.”
I guess this just proves that the anger is genuine, not astroturf.
Davis X. Machina
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of
libertyAnthem/Wellpoint is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit ofjusticeincreased EPS is no virtue.donovong
This was inevitable, and I suspect there will be no lessening in the madness until somebody is killed as the result of this mass stupidity.
A Mom Anon
I find this incredibly sad.
You know,these so called “patriots” say they love America so much,but they really seem to hate Americans an awful lot. I’m not sure how that works,but for these morans it sure seems to be the case. Is there anyone they actually like? I don’t even think they like each other that much.
Pablo
Tea Birthers surround us.
General Winfield Stuck
They are not mutually exclusive.
Jon
I’m going to guess that there aren’t just a few ‘baggers who are uninsured or who have lousy health insurance. The brillance of this is how the corps get these sad sacks to protest so violently against their own best interests.
Molly
At this point, I’d love to cancel all of these town halls due to general wingnuttery threats of violence.
Makewi
Yeah, this supposed 1 death threat is proof that the astro turfed wingnuts should be rounded up into camps! There’s no time to wait to see what the Capital police have to say on the matter. Act now and blame enemies later!
WyldPirate
There is loads of crazies here in North Carolina. Sometimes I think I should leave.
ellaesther
Hell, I received a death threat back when Obama was running for Senate, because I had the temerity to write a letter to the editor suggesting that white, middle-classed women might like the candidate not for his good looks, but his good policies. Indeed, the threat was leveled at both me, and Mr. Obama.
Death threats trip off the tongues of these folks quite easily, and while I know that this one was technically related to health care reform, I think that at base it’s about the man behind the reform plan, and his Otherness.
These people scare the crap out of me, for so many reasons.
(BTW, if you want to experience some real discomfort, I suggest you put on your best white, middle-classed woman voice and speak with a young African American employee of the USPS, describing the contents of a letter threatening the life of an African American politician…).
General Winfield Stuck
@Molly
But then the terrorists would win.
General Winfield Stuck
That’s almost some decent spoof.
Bender
Screenshot, errrrr, phone recording or it didn’t happen.
With the coarsening of political rhetoric of the last 20 years, this kind of nuttery is going to be more and more the norm.
Our leaders aren’t setting great examples, are they? Remember:
ronin122
No, it can be both astroturfed and true batshit. Think of the April tea parties. It’s clear that 60-70% of it was astroturfed shit from the corporations and the GOP and they were the ones who gave it all the funding, but the rest was undiluted crazy, legitimate glibs/fox-news-watchers/racist/wingnut/etc. Basically, the astroturfers provide the funds and the rides, the cuckoos bring themselves. My guess is that they don’t need the given scripts, and in fact have gone off of them. I guess you can say it’s true crazy, brought to you by your local health providers and the party of No.
General Winfield Stuck
@Bender:
Don’t put something like that up without a link. dipshit.
Bubblegum Tate
Nobody could have predicted this! Oh, except for the DHS, which totally predicted this.
gbear
I guess this just proves that the
angerstupid is genuine, not astroturf.Augmented.
Richard Bottoms
The anger is the same as it was in 1994; wild, insane and hyped by the GOP for political gain and the result was nuts shooting at the White House and crazies crashing their planes on the lawn followed soon after by Oklahoma City.
These dickheads don’t need any excuse other than blind hatred of Democrats and progressives.
Brick Oven Bill
The correct response to this is for the lawmaker to contact the FBI, the organization that is paid to investigate this sort of thing. The FBI is good at their job.
The incorrect response is to hide from your constituents under your desk. Communications break down between the political class and the people they represent when elected officials hide from their constituents under their desks.
Communications are important as they allow people to express themselves, and judge their representatives.
ellaesther
@General Winfield Stuck: That’s just it, isn’t it. Terrorism is a political tactic meant to terrorize the public into affecting certain policies and behavior that cannot be gained through legitimate means. Sometimes actual bodies are piled up, sometimes it’s just the threat of piling up bodies.
But if we back abandon democratic discourse in response (or, I don’t know, stop performing legal medical procedures because one man who did so was killed. Just as an example. Dr. George Tiller, RIP), then, indeed: The terrorists win.
Bender
Don’t put something like that up without a link. dipshit.
Why not? It’s common knowledge to knowledgeable people, right?
John’s comment section makes it a pain to link anymore. Just Google “Alcee Hastings death threat” if you need to.
Ash Can
I fully agree that this is as utterly deplorable as it is unsurprising, and I do think Miller is taking the right steps. But if it turns out to be an isolated incident — as in, happens only once — I’ll feel a lot better about it. However, I’m not willing to bet anything of value on this being the only teabagger death threat that surfaces by the time these townhalls are finished. And it makes me queasy to think of how many wackos there may be out there who aren’t communicating their homicidal tendencies.
The Bearded Blogger
Jeez, this is the way democracy is supposed to work! When you oppose a given policy, you demonize whoever is proposing it, and issue death threats.
@ ronin122 and the general:
It’s not really a matter of percentages (80/20 astroturf to genuine ratio)… in a deeper sense it’s all astroturf because this festering boil of public opinion was manufactured by Fox and their Friends… there is no way the teabagging, anti-health, birtherism could have arised spontaneously from the concerns and everyday troubles of a part of the population.
It’s too surreal, for one thing. It doesn’t look as crazy as it actually is because of a boiling frog effect… the day will come when, oh, pulling down an opponents pants will become acceptable political discourse
General Winfield Stuck
@Bender:
I’m not going to google because your to dumb or lazy or both to make links.
KG
@ 18: when someone threatens a law maker with a death threat, that person is no longer a “constituent”, that person is a suspect.
Additionally, as the article states, this particular member of Congress wasn’t even planning on conducting any town hall meetings, and he’s still willing to meet with constituents, on a one-on-one basis. That’s not hiding. That’s telling people, if you want to discuss an issue, come to my office and we’ll sit down and talk about the issue. But that doesn’t make for good youtube videos to distort realty (like the fact that 3/4 of Americans want health insurance reform).
The Bearded Blogger
@ Richard Bottoms
I don’t think it’s hatred at anything specific (dems, libs, etc)… it’s just amorphous hatred.
@ Brick Oven Bill
Wingnut fascination with terrorism has a lot to do with envy.
Demo Woman
Well since I don’t know how to embed my link without the helpful guide, I’m going to link to Kathleen Parker’s column today because it’s relevant to the discussion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080402424.html
Woody
Hatred of Dims, Progs and Negroes: That’s the awl-Murkin TRI-FECTA!
General Winfield Stuck
@The Bearded Blogger:
I support free wedgies.:)
Makewi
Richard Bottoms is a true American hero standing up against the clear and present danger of the GOP hyped anger. I salute you sir!
Even more, thank God for the bravery of Rep Miller and the fates that allowed this quote to be put out by his staff.
ellaesther
@The Bearded Blogger: I disagree, to a certain extent. The batshit anger is genuine — it’s just that batshit angry people aren’t always terribly organized, nor do they get the legitimizing support of people in nice suits who appear to know what they’re talking about (because, after all, they have a teevee show! Or an office on Capitol Hill!). Then their numbers grow because people who might not be truly crazy, just mad and undereducated, then find themselves caught up with the truly screw-loose, because, well, see my previous sentence.
The wingnuts, just like the poor, you will always have with you. The question is: Do you sideline them? Or channel them?
The Bearded Blogger
@ demo woman, 26
It’s hard to imagine what a, for lack of a better term, reconstructed GOP would look like. I don’t think northeastern rockefeller types are coming back. Maybe an all out libertarian western party? Or maybe a religious party with a soul? I just don’t see the path from the current mess to something acceptable.
donovong
@Brick Oven Bill: Yes, BOB, your knight-in-shining-armor, Mr. GW Bush, was a wonderful example of such courage, what with his “Free Speech Pens” and pre-screened selected attendees to such events. Of course, some how I suspect even you would not have been invited.
JK
Useless right wing tool Mary Katharine Ham strikes again with this post “Think Progress, MSNBC ‘Manufacture’ a Story With Putative Smoking Gun ‘Mob’ Memo”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/think_progress_msnbc_manufactu.asp
Lev
Wow, the wingnuts have had three days and they’re already making death threats. I mean, seriously, the DNC couldn’t have hoped for better opposition to go head-to-head with. I would say that the Republicans need to start clamping down on these crazies if they ever wield power again, but it’s the crazies that have the power in the GOP.
Demo Woman
@Bender: Except for blogs, I could find very little info. I tried to click to a police report but it was not longer posted. What did the police discover when they investigated?
El Cid
Tell you what, though.
Picture 2 or 3 years from now when a bunch of these ‘bagger nuts have a health care plan they can afford and they don’t have to worry about going bankrupt over or losing their coverage for getting sick or losing if they change jobs.
Crazy as they are, some of them are going to become among the biggest of Obama fans and fierce defenders.
You wait.
The Bearded Blogger
@ellaesther
Oh, there has always been anger, and crazy ignorant anger. But the particular shape it has taken, teabaggers, birthers, and all that surreal stuff, that is not spontaneous but the product of design. But yeah, you are very right, most of the work of the current GOP is the work of legitimizing the crazyness- the Simpson’s Cat Lady for congress, and Ned Flanders somehow voting for her…
shoutingattherain
@Jon:
Never have so many who have the most to lose been so fooled by those with the most to gain.
shelley matheis
Well, heck. We know all these ‘real Americans’ are just yearning for a simpler, more familiar America. In their mind, the one that existed in Norman Rockwell paintings. Before all this diversity nonsense. Before we had a black, muslim President.
Before Caller ID.
What an idiot.
General Winfield Stuck
@JK:
Too much YouTube for MS Ham to shovel under the Weekly Standard rug. Unless they get one the size of Texas. And bigger shovels.
PeakVT
Rep. Alcee Hastings, D-Fla., directed a death threat at his Republican challenger, Marion Thorpe
Desperate candidate makes wild accusation. Film at 11.
Davis X. Machina
They don’t care: their team is winning. You might as well ask whether the Sox beating Tampa Bay tonight is in my self-interest.
Throw away your Federalist Papers, and get a big foam ‘We’re #1′ finger.
From beyond the grave the dead Vince “Winning Isn’t Everything — It’s The Only Thing’ Lombardi is doing what the living George III, Jeff Davis, Hitler and Stalin could not do — destroy the Republic.
Kirk Spencer
@Brick Oven Bill: I am confused how you get
from
KG
@32: I could see the southern/populist wing of the party turn into something like the European Christian Democrats. I could also see something of a western libertarian party forming. But I don’t see either of those having the ability to garner much national support (and I say this as one of those western libertarian types). As for the north east Rockefellers, well, they’re already Democrats, aren’t they?
General Winfield Stuck
@PeakVT:
that’s my guess.
Sidslang
The thing is, even if wingnut anger winds up turning into deadly violence, that won’t stop the anger. The blowhard spokesmen will find a way to circuitously blame liberalism for the violence, and the anger will simmer further.
Also, gotta love the media. Angry Dems (ie. Howard Dean) are dangerous. Angry GOPosaurs are patriots. Fair and/or balanced.
shelley matheis
ellaesther
@The Bearded Blogger: As I’ve said already in this thread: It scares the crap out of me! Not just (“just”?!) because I believe that Obama lives under a real threat, but because it has revealed to me just how shallow is the “democracy” in certain circles. But now I’m just beginning to quote myself from elsewhere on the tubez, so I’ll stop….
But, you know: Oy.
gbear
I’m wondering what he’s going to do if one of his constituents says ‘I can’t come to your office. You come here’. There are going to be lots of people who have legitimate time or mobility constraints. Will Miller have to consider the possibility that he’s being set-up? It sucks if we’re at that point.
I also wonder if the phone threat to Miller came from inside or outside of his district. Glad the staffer got the number.
ksecus
Teabagger Terrorism indeed
ksecus
Wouldnt that be considered teabag terrorism?
Rey
The thing that kills me about these idiots is that you know as soon as healthcare legislation is passed, most of their family members will be the first ones in line to receive this “govmint” socialistic healthcare.
ironranger
@A Mom Anon:
I’ve had these same thoughts for quite awhile. I’ve read The Authoritarians, Idiot America, Conservatives Without Conscience & so many more books & articles which explain a lot but I can’t figure out why they don’t have any skepticism about anything an R tells them.
If they got everything they think they want, they still wouldn’t be happy. It’s always liberal’s fault, never their own.
gbear
@El Cid:
They’ll probably be bitching about all the evil privacy-invading paperwork Obama makes them fill out.
Alan
There is genuine anger out there. But mostly because the RW eats the dogmatic bullshit their pundits feed them. To them it’s a simple equation–healthcare equals socialism. And by rote they know any dabbling with socialism destroys economies and whittles away liberty. It’s a given.
KG
@50: you know, the ambush thing wasn’t something I thought of. Of course, I guess, there isn’t much to prevent someone from walking into his office with a Saturday Night Special, either.
There was a time when I really wanted to go into politics. I was fairly cynical back then, but I still believed that people were capable in believing in something bigger than themselves or their party. Now, I just want to make enough money to pay off my student loans and move to a little island with good booze, Cuban cigars, and a decent swell most of the year.
Mayur
@El Cid: Or they’ll be like that nice old lady who said “Get your government hands off my Medicare!”
These people forget, time and time again, that evil libruls gave them labor rights, health and safety in the workplace, a clean environment, Social Security (hell, pensions were a progressive, nay lefty radical, accomplishment), a non-predatory fire department service, etc. They live another day due to that s**t just to give liberals a hard time.
Comrade Darkness
Maybe all this incitement to violence on the right will finally get a few dems to sign up for a spinal installation.
One can dream.
Omnes Omnibus
@Davis X. Machina: The Lombardi quote is actually “Winning isn’t everything, but wanting to win is.” At least, that is the case per Bartlett’s and my lifetime a Packer fan.
Mayur
IOW, can we just create a separate country for a-holes like Bender and send them there? Zombie Reagan can be president with W as his VP and the ghosts of Herbert Hoover, Jefferson Davis, and Nathan Bedford Forrest as the Cabinet.
El Cid
@gbear: Don’t forget that, because he improved the lives for the absolute common working class (white) people who were literally starving themselves to death working in the mills, ‘communist’ FDR was a hero to the average poor Southerner and they hung his portrait in their homes just like poor Southern blacks did for FDR’s moves aiding African American rights such as (in giving in to A. Philip Randolph’s demands) employing African Americans in defense plants.
Sure, I expect some hypocritical bitching and moaning. But I’m serious — you make a program that actually, for once, clearly and obviously makes these peoples’ lives just a little bit better, surer, and easier, and you watch the turnaround.
When they get to take the kids to the doctor at the early stage of a cough without having to freak out about what it could lead do or will it be a pre-existing condition, some shit is going to change.
This is why I deeply, deeply hope Democrats are thinking about the electoral impact not of the particular gaming going on right now but what happens in ordinary, poor and working households when the new program is active.
If you do this right, Democrats and liberalism could win like it hasn’t since FDR.
If they’re idiots, and focus on the gamesmanship now at the expense of screwing over legislation which could truly and deeply turn the country towards them in gratitude, then they’re simply venal idiots.
Keith G
I think one of the factors contributing to this is the nature of the attacks against Obama. From the time of the Iowa caucus, a significant line of attack against him was that he was different and dangerous. Not only was he not one of us, but he would be harmful to us.
Of course this was not entirely unique as that has been a strategy of attacking liberals since at least Vietnam. A compounding of circumstances (like race) serves to make this episode more emotional, it seems.
Sorry, but the average American is not terribly bright. Raw intelligence was not what propelled us to our moment of world power. So when concentrated messages of impending evil pound away at them, and dovetail into pre-existing world views, I am not surprised at the vehemence and occasional violence of some my fellow of Americans.
But I am not sure what saddens me more, the aggressive bullying by the dull, or the fallacy of equivalence committed by the more intelligent (like my brother) when they say, “Ya, but both sides do it.”
El Cid
@Mayur:
All the more reason to do something good for them now. A lot of people have the sense that, yeah, government might have done things for people when my grandpa was young, but it couldn’t know because of blah blah blah. You prove ’em wrong and it’ll pay off. Big time.
Bender
Desperate candidate makes wild accusation. Film at 11.
Congratulations! You’re pretty much the definition of partisan blindness. Alcee Hastings (who was found guilty of and impeached for taking bribes from drug dealers to let them off easy) must not have threatened his opponent… because he’s a Democrat.
Anonymous caller must’ve threatened Brad Miller…because the caller’s against Obamacare.
I bet you’re proud of yourself for your rigorous intellectual standards.
Makewi
Yeah, the ungrateful proles. Wait, maybe they forgot because liberals ruined schools.
jacy
I don’t know all the specifics because I’ve been really, really trying not to pay attention to the news lately. (I’m in the middle of book rewrite that’s on an actual publisher’s deadline and not one of my own silly made-up ones, so I don’t have time right now for either depression or outrage.)
But down in here in the Big Easy, the campaign manager for the woman who’s running against David Vitter actually had his car blown up by a car bomb. Not a threat, an honest-to-dog car bomb. My S/O said in an interview the guy tried to really hard not to cast aspersions anywhere and just answered the “What do you think about this” question by saying, “I think I’m going to need a new car.”
I know this is New Orleans where wacky things happen all the time and I’m not trying to make a meta-statement, but even for someone who’s trying their damnedest not to pay any attention, the mood in the country is really starting to freak me out.
Omnes Omnibus
@Makewi: “… aside from that what have the Romans ever done for us?”
Montysano
What does genuine even mean in a case like this? Is getting all worked up after a steady dose of scum like Boortz/Hannity/Limbaugh/Beck/Levin, is this a genuine anger? Anger, to me anyway, implies a certain reasoning, some sort of rational target, “anger – a strong feeling of displeasure and belligerence aroused by a wrong”. These fucktards aren’t angry, they’re enraged, and sweet Jeebus on a crutch I’m tired of it. Prevention of civic discussion is a low, cowardly thing; it’s fucking pathetic.
Bender
IOW, can we just create a separate country for a-holes like Bender and send them there?
Ever the BJer response to any challenge to their delicate sensibilities…
“We want our echo chamber back! Ban him! Deport him!”
Not impressive…
Makewi
Maybe we could compromise and instead of having the government do stuff for the people, we could have the government do stuff to the people. Not like sexy time stuff, but like other stuff the might or might not want. Either way at least the government will be doing something.
ellaesther
@shelley matheis: I know…. All the more reason for reasonable people (and I still believe that there are some reasonable people in the GOP) to step up and tell them to cut it the hell out.
Calling all GOP grown-ups! These people have guns! You might want to not encourage them!
But again, I repeat myself. So, again: Oy.
Calouste
@El Cid:
What makes you think that? In 2 or 3 years, Obama will still be Black, and the nuts will still be racists. They’ll find something else.
Makewi
@Omnes Omnibus:
The Romans would have put 99% of the elected in DC into bags with wild animals and thrown them in the river. Then they would have invaded Canada. So you win some you lose some.
Klaus
It’s all about Two Minutes’ Hate: The contemporary US right wing is about resentment, hate and fear – pure negative energy. It just has to be directed at somebody, in this case Brad Miller.
gbear
@El Cid:
I hope your view comes to pass. I wonder if it’s working on a smaller scale for people who desperately needed a new car and took advantage of the clunkers program?
OT: A flock of Cedar Waxwings has just descended on the Pagoda Dogwood in my back yard. Cool.
Betsy
@Pablo:
Better than Birth Parties.
Makewi
@Calouste:
Wait, Obama is black? Good lord that changes everything. Has anyone told his wife and kids?
Klaus
And Two Minutes’ Hate was organised by the Party.
KG
@59: then they’re simply venal idiots
Opening betting line on this one is set at 1:6.
I don’t necessarily blame them, though. I really don’t think anyone in Washington, save Obama, has actually figured out that the game has changed. He’s moved on to three dimensional chess; they’re all still playing tic-tac-toe against a chicken.
Anne Laurie
Jeff Danzinger has a wonderful cartoon today about what he labels the “Mor-On.Org” astroturfers recruiting the genuinely lost & damaged: “Can’t afford a vacation this year? Why not go on a wild trip with Mor-On Tours!… Special 10-City Rock and Bottle the Vote Tour – We supply the rocks & bottles!”
(Unfortunately it’s not on his website yet (www.danzigercartoons.com) and I don’t want to eff up the site
any furtherby linking to the copyright-protected subscription version.)If the Republican party survives as more than a Green-Party-style far-fringe organization, I think it will happen when the Blue Dogs fvck up their DINO cover (quite possibly as a result of the healthcare-reform debacle they’re simultaneously figureheading and being puppeteered by Big Insurance) and get together with the Dana-Rorabach brand Glibertarians to take over the GOP apparatus. Whether they have the political smarts & power to pry the steering wheel away from the current ratfvckers, I don’t know. It’d be nice to believe that the Talibangelical/fReichtard/Robber-baron Troika of Rethuglican Ascendancy had reached the end of its shelf life, but the leadership behind each group knows they’ll never have as much money & influence individually as they have under the current political chimera.
Keith G
@Bender: @Bender: Ok let’s say my rigorous intellectual standards are lacking. Please make me a smarter guy by showing me where there is a news report (not an opinion blog comment) re the death threat that you mention.
El Cid
@Calouste:
Just my sense of things. I heard a whoooole lot of my ordinarily racist (as opposed to X-treme racist) Southern white colleagues and neighbors before the election and occasionally since say some pretty positive things about Obama.
What they’ve said negatively recently about Obama’s performance (the racist jokes and bullshit never went away) only has to do with bullshit they’ve heard from talk radio.
But in the last couple of days I’ve heard a hell of a lot of “my buddy / friend / relative / whoever works in / owns a car dealership and this program may have saved their company, at least for a while, so why are these Republicans talking about ending it?”
I could be wrong.
But then, I’ve had racist relatives etc who really never changed a lot of their basic view but then when he went to the VA and a black doctor took over and addressed problems that previous doctors had ignored, or a black government bureaucrat helped his small business when he could have been in real trouble, you’d be surprised how that doctor or bureaucrat suddenly became a holy, unquestionable angel in that ordinarily racist person’s opinion.
It’s unfair, and it’s stupid, and a lot of these people couldn’t politically think their way through a wet tissue bag if you gave ’em a chainsaw, but you give them a solid positive real life experience and they are able to connect the dots about who did and who led to what, then you have their allegiance.
kay
I think Democrats should treat the GOP base with exactly the same seriousness and attention that Republicans treated the Democratic base from 2001 to 2006.
They should completely ignore them.
Democrats in Republican-represented House districts were treated with something close to complete disdain when the GOP majority were ramming through the Bush Agenda at 3 A.M. I know. I was one. No compromise. No surrender. They were on a mission. They got humble and contrite right about 2006, when they belatedly realized they were going to get their asses handed to them, but that didn’t last long, as we’re witnessing.
They were the Permanent Majority, and they could not and did not give a rat’s ass what anyone outside the GOP voter/donor pool thought about any of it.
If you think they’re sore losers, and I do, try them as winners. It’s worse.
Keith G
@Makewi:
Please elaborate.
Anne Laurie
Davis X. Machina, as usual, is correct. Unfortunately. The secure, high-paid, well-educated Media Villagers who’ve spent the last 40 years turning “politics” (i.e., political coverage) into just another form of sporting event, something to enliven the dead season between the World Series and the first college football games, deserve a clean well-lighted niche in the national Hall of Shame.
Makewi
If you ignore the GOP you will have no one to point the finger at when you can’t deliver enough votes within your own party to pass the bills you want passed. You get that, right Kay? The fact that your real problem right now is within the party itself?
No, why would you, what with all the shiny attention paid to “mobs” and “astroturfing”.
tc125231
There are lots of angry people –many with good reason. These are hard times.
Only GOP wingnuts –oops, I mean “the Base” –feel empowered to threaten death at will, without censure or shame within their peer group.
Despicable.
Makewi
@Keith G:
I can’t, I went to public school.
kay
Republicans lost the majority because they pandered to their lunatic base, so the response to that should be that Democrats have to pander to the lunatic Republican base?
In what world does this make sense? In a world where the loudest, least-informed, most dogmatically stupid 28% run things? Working off bumper sticker slogans?
That went well, last time we tried it. They lost, but what the hell. Let’s do it again! Put them in charge. Just hand it to them.
Comrade Darkness
@Bender: Yeah, we know… one crappy democrat = 1000 crappy republicans. Same-o as always.
But, but, blow job!
PeakVT
Congratulations! You’re pretty much the definition of partisan blindness.
Ut-oh, we might have a case of wingnut projection developing.
Alcee Hastings (who was found guilty of and impeached for taking bribes from drug dealers to let them off easy) must not have threatened his opponent… because he’s a Democrat.
Let’s see, we have 1) an accusation made in the waning days of a campaign 2) by a candidate that was losing badly 3) that would be hard to verify because it was said at close range 4) which apparently received zero followup by the police 5) and was first announced by Thorpe himself in a press release 6) and reported by NRO and assorted other right wing blogs 7) but no major news outlet 8) and was such an important story that this very post on Balloon Juice is now the 9th link on Google for the search “alcee hastings threatens marion thorpe”. I think the balance of the evidence indicates that Thorpe was flailing wildly.
Anonymous caller must’ve threatened Brad Miller…because the caller’s against Obamacare.
Of course, I haven’t said one way or another on this because I don’t have any evidence at hand. Nice try, though.
I bet you’re proud of yourself for your rigorous intellectual standards.
Yep, wingnut projection it is.
Thank you for playing!
Martin
Isn’t that Somalia and Afghanistan?
“Hate the government? No problem, we don’t have one! Right to keep and bear arms? You betcha! Good luck getting home alive without a Kalashnikov! Hate universal health care? Hell, we don’t even have doctors or clean drinking water!”
General Winfield Stuck
@Makewi:
That’s a normal problem that can and will be solved. It’s just the dems way to squabble amongst ourselves before coming together. We don’t do marching orders from a president to the congress like the GOP.
The abnormal problem, is the new winger movement that has political discourse falling to the level of a pack of screaming fools. Sooner or later, that label will stick to the GOP like Gorilla Glue, and they’ll be lucky to win an elections for local dogcatcher.
And fuck the notion of doing business with a party that has only one goal at present.. to bring down a dem presnit.
Rosali
In other South Fla news:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/1172648.html
Only a small handful of constituents typically show up to talk to the staff of U.S. Rep. Ron Klein on the first Wednesday of every month. But Wednesday morning’s routine office hours were turned into a raucous town hall meeting when about 100 protesters packed a Lighthouse Point public library demanding that Klein back off proposed healthcare reforms.
Like other recent town hall meetings across the country that have become Internet sensations for resembling angry mobs more than citizens engaged in thoughtful public discourse, the group was rowdy at times.
Davis X. Machina
Republicans lost the majority because they pandered to their lunatic base, so the response to that should be that Democrats have to pander to the lunatic Republican base?
In what world does this make sense?
Harrison Bergeron for Congress!
Keith G
@Makewi: So you have no initiative to improve yourself? How sad.
kay
@Makewi:
There’s no “problem” on my end with Democratic members of Congress battling over a health care bill. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
If you’re going to try to convince me that tea party attendees and birthers are somehow “swing voters” who put Blue Dogs in office, I flat-out don’t believe you.
You’ve been arguing for two days that these people don’t represent mainstream Republicans, and now they’re swing voters?
Which is it? Are they the Right’s equivalent of Code Pink or the rank and file right-leaning voter? Pick one. You can’t have both sides of this argument.
Not one of these people has supported a moderate since 1980, I’m betting. They’re your base. Moderates don’t make death threats, and they don’t wave signs and shout down the speakers. That’s why we call them “moderates”.
Makewi
The rest of what you wrote is sweet. Naive and wrong, but sweetly optimistic that your “team” is so much better because blah, blah, blah.
The part highlighted here is just stupid. The administration isn’t “doing business” with anyone. At best they are hoping to be able to attach the label of “bipartisan” to the overall plan, and at worst they are looking for someone to scapegoat when it all fails to pass. Which is increasingly more likely. Because it isn’t just an internal squabble, it’s the political futures of those Democrats who are hearing from their constituents that this is a big piece of crap.
JD Rhoades
This is why I’ve gone back to traveling armed at all times. I haven’t seen this level of crazy since right before the Iraq War.
Makewi
@Keith G:
Why would I? That’s what the government is for. To take care of my needs.
Mike in NC
Jeez, wonder how many death threats that little piece generated?
TR
@Bender:
Not impressive…
No, you’re not. Not impressive at all.
“Oh noes, Alcee Hastings said he would ‘get’ someone, so that’s just like a death threat! Heaven forfend!”
Go get your panties unbunched, you delicate little crybaby. I’ll be here making the wanking motion while I wait.
gwangung
@Makewi:
Make a claim? Back it up.
Otherwise, we treat you like a joke. We have fun either way.
Makewi
@kay:
I really have no idea what you are talking about. Not that it really matters, because actual elected Democrats are feeling the heat on this and no amount of distraction about birthers or teabaggers or the GOP is going to change that.
Maybe you misunderstand who the base of the Democrats are, because if it was just the 18% or so of the general population who self identifies as liberal/progressive no Dem would ever get elected anywhere.
Makewi
@gwangung:
What claim, that the US education system has gotten increasingly worse? It’s not exactly a disputed fact. In fact, its something the Dems are usually on about.
TR
So I googled “alcee hastings death threat” and got … nothing. A bunch of wingnut sites, not a bit of actual news, not local, not national.
Jesus Christ, you’re a fucking moron, Bender.
General Winfield Stuck
@Makewi:
A good healthcare bill is a done deal in the House, And the Senate will only need 51 votes to pass in under the RP. You know like bush’s second and third taxcut.
According to all the polling, the public wants big reform, and by a huge margin a public option. What they are balking at is paying for it and running up more deficits.
Here is my prediction. Obama is going to have to let ALL the Bush tax cuts sunset. Returning tax rates back to the Clinton years rate. He will have to eat a promise due to the total fiscal mess the wingnuts left, in order to take in revenue.
Dems don’t mind going back to Clinton tax rates and independents don’t either, at least to get the deficit down.
And Goopers can go suck an egg, because they are not part of the solution and largely are the problem. I fully expect dems to lose seats in congress in 2010 mainly due to lagging job creation, but no where near enough to lose control.
JD Rhoades
@TR:
So I googled “alcee hastings death threat” and got … nothing. A bunch of wingnut sites, not a bit of actual news, not local, not national.
Well, that’s just proof positive that it happened, because it means the MSM is covering it up.
WereBear
El Cid @80:
I agree. The Republicans were driven into the wilderness for decades when Roosevelt lifted so many people out of the Great Depression.
And that’s exactly what the Republicans have been trying to prevent… again.
gwangung
@Makewi: Ah, a punchline that masquerades as a commenter.
But work on your humor and your cogency. Neither is worth much.
Work on using facts and figures; it distinguishes you from Republicans, who are more concerned with arguing with Democrats and liberals.
Mayur
@Makewi: Ruined our schools did they? Can you provide a citation of some kind?
See, I can point to the NLRB, NRA (the other one), WPA, Civil Rights Act, CAFE standards, OSHA, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Clean Air/Water Acts, Superfund Act, and ESA among others (and I’ll give Nixon due credit for signing Clean Air/Clean Water into effect, FYI). I can also point out the various movements that advocated for this legislation and cite to extensive histories. Shall we start with something really basic from a ridiculously easy-to-locate source?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_movement
Your turn.
Ann B. Nonymous
Where’s the poster who pretends to be Dana Carvey in drag? You know, the shill.
someguy
Well, that pretty much proves the teabaggers are just a step away from violence. Cry havoc, and let slip the FBI…
WereBear
Like an organism fighting off an infection, the Body Politic is running a fever, erupting in boils, and thrashing around a lot.
It won’t be pretty. But I feel the immune system ramping up…
Makewi
@General Winfield Stuck:
If it’s such a done deal, why are they waiting to vote on it until after the August recess?
Here’s my prediction. The Dems are unable to pass something that is actually health care reform. Instead they either expand Medicare and or create another clusterf*ck exactly like it. They declare victory and we revisit this issue again sometime within the next 20 years.
The GOP does expand seats in 2010, but not because people love the GOP, because they are already growing tired of the Dems. The Dems lose more seats in 2012.
Obama loses the WH in 2012. A single termer who really accomplished almost nothing.
Joel
@Makewi: I was under the impression that the real problems (economic crash, war on two fronts, widespread poverty) were of the inherited variety. Maybe that was the wrong impression.
kay
@Makewi:
Feeling the heat from the most rabid of the GOP base?
You’re dishonest. They’re either swing voters who Democrats need to fear (as I said, I don’t believe that) or they’re the rabid GOP base, who Democrats don’t need to fear.
I think they’re your base. They don’t and won’t vote for Democrats. Not “moderate” democrats, not conservative Democrats, not Democrats.
I don’t think it’s good for the country to pander to your base. I think we just finished watching the tragic results of doing just that.
General Lee
What you Obama kids don’t seem to understand is that we’re going to do whatever it takes to stop this Marxist from destroying the last island of true freedom in this world. You never really beat George Bush; he beat himself. But we’re not going to wait for that. We’re going to destroy this president and you’ll be around to watch us do it. Watch, listen, and learn. First we’ll stop health care “reform,” and after that, he’s finished. Beginning of the end. Four years from now, when we’re watching Tim Pawlenty or Mitt Romney take office as our next president, Obama will be nothing more than a bad memory.
Lesley
It’s not the anger that’s genuine, it’s the insanity.
Like the PA shooter who thought himself a nice guy victimized by women, the lunatics on the right are morons who have no insight into themselves or the world around them, and take no responsibility.
I mean, these jackasses will threaten a Democrat and defend a bailed out bank. That’s how stupid they are.
mapaghimagsik
Woo hoo! Are we getting teabag presence here?
Makewi
@gwangung:
I think it’s fantastic that you care, and between you and me, your approval means everything to me.
Maybe someday I can be like Mayur who truly believes in the my team/your team theory of politics and government.
Makewi
@Joel:
Oh Joel, you can only bang that drum for so long. Eventually the party that is given total control over the entire Fed is expected to do something. Well, something besides spend massive amounts of money to watch unemployment increase that is. Oops.
Brick Oven Bill
That would be astro-death.
Seanly
@El Cid:
Ah, a dreamer. My wife is always telling me that my constant fatalism is a complete drag so I will join with you in hoping what you said comes true.
Makewi
@kay:
It’s nice that you think you have a clue what’s going on. You don’t, but you do know how to think about things in terms of them vs us, so that’s something. Go Team!
OTOH, maybe your right and the Dems haven’t been getting any pressure from their constituency. Maybe their just too stupid to realize that they have enough votes without the GOP. Yeah, that’s probably it. I mean these people were politically astute enough to get elected, but they probably are unaware of who is actually for this and who is against it.
Unlike you, who knows exactly whats happening. It’s those freaking terrorist birfing teabaggers who are ruining everything by pressuring people who normally wouldn’t pay any attention to them, but who are now because of the mobbing astroturfing magic pixie dust of power.
Them and those greedy effing tonsil stealing doctors that is.
General Winfield Stuck
And what rising GOP star do you predict will beat Obama?
Your calling medicare a clusterfuck. Shows what an idiot you are. It is the most popular health care program in this country. Just go and ask any Senior. What is sucking the fiscal life out of medicare and the economy on the whole, is the unmitigated greed of private insurance co,’s HMO’s and the like. 30 percent waste on just the friekin paperwork. Medicare admin costs are 2 percent. Get your facts straight dude, before you come here.
Enjoy making hay out of the dem process of making sausage, cause it won’t last. And there is already a ton of GOP cavage on a whole list of reforms they previously fought tooth and nail. So even if a PO doesn;t get done, and a bill is passed and signed without it, the insurance industry is not going to be your friend anymore.
You dumbasses don’t even know what your protesting. You think it’s keeping the status quo. It’s not. Because some major reform of insurance practices will happen, and it will get more than a few GOP votes, because they know they’ll get tagged with the obstructionist label if they don’t do something.
And since a PO is for keeping costs from escalating, we will all get screwed when the system collapses from overpricing.
Texas Dem
“And what rising GOP star do you predict will beat Obama?”
If still have 10 percent unemployment in 2012, the GOP could run Huckabee/Palin and win the WH. Don’t underestimate the temptation of ideological extremism when things go totally to hell. When folks get truly desperate, they’ll listen to practically anyone.
General Winfield Stuck
@Texas Dem:
No offense intended. But Texas Dems are not known for their rosy outlook on political fortunes.
Demo Woman
@JD Rhoades: Supposedly there was a police report and when I asked Bender what the police found out, he ducked out.
Hastings was impeached in 89 and Clinton was impeached in 98 so that must mean something.
El Cid
@Seanly: All I can say is that it’s happened before.
kay
@Makewi:
Medicare is a “clusterfuck”? Really? Go down and visit with the GOP base, if you can get them to listen over the manufactured din, and tell them you’re going to shut down the government-run insurance program that is Medicare.
Then run. The GOP base are older, and they love Medicare as much as Democrats.
Nice GOP talking point on the tonsils. I heard that on Hannity too.
Moderates who vote for Democrats don’t show up at town hall meetings with canned talking points about Big Government. They don’t have “NOBAMA” bumper stickers.
You’re completely dishonest and completely a GO TEAM Gooper.
Makewi
@General Winfield Stuck:
Your funny. Not like in a humorous way, but like in a way where someone is trying to make an argument but just finds himself getting twisted around and angrier and angrier over the fact that his arguments are complete crap and yet he knows the world is unfair and damnit someone should do something about it. I mean there are villians to be slain here people. Not the government, who can lock you up and stuff, but those fucking companies who are making profits. Profits!
Jesus. Fuck.
And so on.
Medicare is popular. It’s also far more expensive then any paperwork laden HMO you can think of. It’s just that the administrative costs are bundled in another way. It’s also not very responsive, and doesn’t cover nearly as much as private insurance tends to.
Brittany Spears was pretty popular for a while. Maybe we should made her queen.
geg6
This is the bestest thread evah because it’s just filled with pie!
The Populist
Uhhhhhhh Bender, I looked up your claim.
Rule of thumb: Looking up a “claim” on Google means I have to pour through rightie websites who SAY it happened with no proof.
I go to Google news and look through the archive: One story from a right wing Newsmax type “news” site.
Until you can show me a LEGIT news article claiming this happened and not believe a blog that had posts saying things like “one less liberal the better” and “I hate black congessmen” or basically calling Dems cheaters (Ha! Funny how they can’t look in the mirror) then you have NO legs to stand on.
Thanks for playing the Populist Debunks Bullshit game. It’s been fun!!!
Makewi
@kay:
By GOP talking point you mean accurate quote of what Obama said. Stop telling the truth about us! is your rallying cry then?
The Populist
Demo Woman: “@JD Rhoades: Supposedly there was a police report and when I asked Bender what the police found out, he ducked out.”
Yep, he can only regurgitate crap from rightie blogs. If he can’t show me the police report or a legit news article from a legit reporter, Bender’s either a liar or a partisan hack or both.
Lesley
Makewi’s bulb needs replacing.
Also, she didn’t pass grade 2 spelling class.
General Winfield Stuck
Well, Cid, you’ve outdone me for glass half full-ism. If this comes true, I will once again believe in teh Easter Bunnie.
The Populist
@Makewi:
“Maybe you misunderstand who the base of the Democrats are, because if it was just the 18% or so of the general population who self identifies as liberal/progressive no Dem would ever get elected anywhere.”
That’s a lie. How did Obama and other dems win then?
kay
@Makewi:
“Maybe their just too stupid to realize that they have enough votes without the GOP. ”
Democrats don’t need a single GOP vote in the House. That’s good, because not a single Republican in the House has come to the table on anything. Not one thing. The Republican proposal for health care is as follows: deregulate, tax credit, remove the tax credit for employer-sponsored health care.
If it passes, we’ll be bailing out Too Big To Fail insurers in 10 years, and the quality of health care will drop, because without state regulators, they’ll rob individuals blind.
The Populist
“By GOP talking point you mean accurate quote of what Obama said. Stop telling the truth about us! is your rallying cry then?”
GOP talking points are for maroons. I watched C-Span and saw rightie Congresscritter after rightie congresscritter regurgitate the same tired talking point.
They can’t think for themselves because they need Rushie or Glenn or Sean to tell them what to think. See, I am a proud independent who gladly LEFT the GOP because I don’t like people who can’t think for themselves.
The smartest GOP I know are Goldwater fans who are tired of this bullshit.
Mario Piperni
Astroturfing does not exclude having a segment of the population genuinely angry at Obama’s health care plan.
Makewi
@Lesley:
Imagine how hurt I am at your words. Then imagine a puppy, because puppies are cute.
kay
Reporters are starting to ask what they should have been asking all along, which is ‘do you live in this District?”
Not a lot of them do. Nothing scares a House member like an out-of-his-District protester.
KG
@134:
If it passes, we’ll be bailing out Too Big To Fail insurers in 10
yearsmonthsweeks, and the quality of health care will drop, because without state regulators, they’ll rob individuals blind.Fixed.
General Winfield Stuck
@Makewi:
And that’s why doctors and hospitals are always complaining that medicare doesn’t reimburse them as much as private plans. Your just an idiot with a bag of poorly thought out talking points. Medicare is popular because it is simple to use. Their are few treatments that get rejected and contrary to bullshit GOP lies there hardly ever is a third party making decisions to deny care that kill people. LIke with your precious HMO’s et al.
The reason it’s cost is going up so fast is the same as everywhere in the Health Care system. Jacked up prices from greedy private carriers and providers for treatments and procedures, by creating so many middle men to take their cut and extra paperwork, that not much is left for the patient, or the doctor for that matter.
Yes Lesley, Makewi needs a new bulb. Less dim would be good.
Demo Woman
@Makewi: You definitely need to read more research papers and turn off the radio. Kaiser does a good job but that’s about it. Do you use Kaiser? The large insurance companies tend to use PPO’s which are not as efficient.
RSA
@Ash Can
I’m late, and this isn’t specifically about Miller, but I found this from a few days ago… interesting:
I think this offers a nice quantitative summary of the difference between Bush Derangement Syndrome and Obama Derangement Syndrome.
Church Lady
If the police were given the phone number of the threatening caller, why no arrest yet? After all, with the phone number, the caller shouldn’t be difficult to find. I would think a death threat against a member of Congress would get pretty speedy action.
Also, why isn’t this story anywhere except liberal blogs. Googling it, not one single mainstream news paper or network is carrying this story. The only one even approaching “mainstream” I could find was Politico, and all it did was excerpt a small portion and credit it to Talking Points Memo.
Strange.
El Cid
@General Winfield Stuck: We have already seen loads (on an individual level) of hardcore Republicans turn to support a liberal black man with a funny name for President.
If so many — even if a minority — were willing to do so merely on the hope that he would be different than Bush Jr., surely it’s not so unrealistic to think that a significant number would firm their support if there were a massive, measurable material improvement in their lives after having spent the last decade worrying about their health insurance coverage.
Makewi
@General Winfield Stuck:
Make sure you continue to insert greedy before insurance companies every time they are mentioned. Studies have found it makes them sound 28% more evil.
Demo Woman
I know you’ll be shocked, but I don’t watch cable tv news and I don’t listen to talk radio. I come by my opinions honestly. Yes, I have Kaiser. I’d like to keep them and I’d like to do so without paying a tribute to the government to do so.
El Cid
Well, that’s democracy for ya. We don’t always get what we like, and people who don’t like government and whatnot always think that by default they’re correct and everyone else has to win them over first, and thank god that that isn’t really true.
General Winfield Stuck
@Makewi:
ROTFLMAO! Thank you for that. I needed a good belly laugh.
JD Rhoades
@Church Lady:
The story just hit in the last day or so. Wait for the “traditional” news outlets to pick it up.
Unlike Bender’s “Alcee Hastings Death Threat” story which is nowhere to be found other than the wingnut blogs (and here) after years.
General Winfield Stuck
@El Cid:
Sane republicans yes, some. Teabaggers, hmmmm, not so much I think. But I sure hope your righter than me.
cliff
@General Winfield Stuck:
and you are too dumb and lazy to highlight and rightclick. you sound just like hanitty.
General Winfield Stuck
@JD Rhoades:
Church Lady is concerned.
General Winfield Stuck
@cliff:
Well, apparently I saved myself some wasted effort because others have highlighted and rightclicked and come up with nothin’.
Is this all you have to say?
El Cid
@General Winfield Stuck: Look, we know as solid as just about anything in politics that we have some percentage of the nation — 25 to 30%, probably concentrated most heavily in the South — who will be, to the last day, absolutely and unalterably committed to the most lunatic, authoritarian, nation-destroying, right wing, hawk bullshit, up to and including revoking any part of the Constitution they could get their hands on outside the 2nd Amendment and powers delegated to the states.
This is going to be a long term risk for the nation. All the crazies need is to find another quarter or so of voters to temporarily align with them and we can get another burst of American subfascist-style populism with a developmentally disabled twist.
General Winfield Stuck
@El Cid:
Yup, this is our America.
Mayur
@Makewi: Yeah. I believe in the facts vs. abject made-up nonsense teams. Guess which one you’re doing a nice job of trying to score points for right now?
Makewi
@General Winfield Stuck:
You’re welcome. You’re also kind of a crazy person and as it turns out, a bit of dick.
cliff
@cliff:
I guess what I am saying is, don’t be a lazy tool/fool. try to respond coherently.
just because the rethuglicans are thugs, is no reason to respond in kind. try to keep the discourse respectful.
(lol as if I don’t contrib to that too.. I’m a hypocrite as well, I guess. they really burn me up!!)
Mayur
I can’t believe I took the bait.
If I could have edited my reply, here you go, Makewi.
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/obvious_troll.jpg
Makewi
@Mayur:
Score points eh? Who exactly is keeping score, and how many points can shooting the shit with rabid partisans who will never, never contemplate a point of view outside of the accepted team platforms be worth in any case? My guess is zero.
cliff
@General Winfield Stuck:
I HAD to listen to hannity (radio) today and he pulled that same line on a caller, so its a big fucking splinter under my skin when someone says something like that, regardless of whats on the other side of the search.
General Winfield Stuck
@cliff:
Your concern is noted, and flushed down the shitter. It is up to the person posting garbage to back it up. Not the reader. Study you internet traditions.
General Winfield Stuck
@cliff:
And WTF are you listening to Hannity for? And then coming here to accuse me of acting like him. Go Fuck yourself with a stick, or splinter, whatever.
General Winfield Stuck
@Makewi:
That’s precious coming from you.
Svensker
You know, I used to be a Republican. I fucking hate Republicans now. And these tea-bagger townhall busting-up Republican assholes are really pissing me off. I think it’s time to start busting heads. In a Quakerly sort of way, of course.
cliff
@General Winfield Stuck:
I didn’t have a choice, I HAD to listen to the asshole, and you are sounding more and more like him, the more you say, so to me, thats pretty damm disturbing.
so, as you say, go fuck yourself with a splinter.
kay
@Makewi:
The people posting here are honest. They’re either liberals or partisan Democrats, right now anyway.
You’re not. You’re reciting every GOP talking point, almost in turn, from “liberals destroyed public education” to “Medicare is a clusterfuck”. Just reciting these huge sweeping indictments, with nothing to back it up, while pretending you’re a thorough and critical thinker and not some yucky “partisan”.
This is how we ended up with the over-60 tea bagger crowd screaming against “government run health care” while completely backing Medicare. It’s just an ideological throw-away line. It doesn’t mean anything, as a practical matter. It can’t, or they’d be opposing Medicare.
General Winfield Stuck
@cliff:
LOL. This is Balloon Juice, sometimes.
pattonbt
Wow, we have a gen-u-wine wingnut here (not the sadly, random insanity we’ve grown accustomed to in BOB).
A 2010 and 2012 R ressurection? You have got to be out of your freakin’ mind. Obama is about as locked in for 2012 as you can get. And the Dems will have a net pickup in 2010 in both houses.
Why? Because the populace will be so enamored with the Dems? Hardly. No the real reason is Bush / Cheney. The R party still has a massive taint on it in the majority of independents minds that when push comes to shove they will still go to the lesser of two evils. Sure, theres a good chance Dems will not accomplish much of what many of us hope for, and I do believe there will be genuine disappointment over that, but anything is better than 2 wars, econominc catastrophe, healthcare shambles, government department decimation, katrina sideline deathwatching, and the inumerable other items which the R party left us. Seriously, my choice is go with the party that actively worked to fuck things up (and did) or go with the party that is trying to make things better but failing? Easy choice for me.
Tied to the double sucker punch of demographics and not only is the writing on the wall but its tattooed on everyones forehead. Bush / Cheney killed the R party not only racially but generationally.
Look at the healtchare debate statistics, polling shows there is a break at the age of 50 – with those over being more opposed and those under being greatly in favor. No matter how healthcare gets spun, if its defetaed the R’s will take a lionshare of the fault. Why? Because they will gloat about it. They can not help themselves. Gloating over defeating nice programs (like SCHIP) does not sell well when things are in the toilet. It worked in the 90’s because times were good. But obstructionism is not a game winning strategy in bad times.
Add on to that the R bench is still made up of and lead by the loons who walked on by and cheerlead the disasters through and methinks it will take dead boys to defeat Obama.
Of course, never say never. But my worry factor is about as low as can be. I will also say this. Politics is a pendulum and sometime in the future the Ds will screw up and lose power. It is inevitable. But the Rs will have to become a different party if its going to happen. That takes years, at least a decade. So again, Im not losing any sleep right now.
cliff
@General Winfield Stuck:
and this is why I’m a dem, cause if I said the same to the rethuglicans they would prob threaten me instead of laughing.
Rainy
The only thing the Repubs do is stand up for the rich and corporations. We see that with the health bill. Why anybody vote for them or want to be in their party is beyond me.
Mike in NC
Massive Orly Taint?
Richard Bottoms
It’s been a while since I made posted my sentiments about the GOP in this way: Fuck them, all of them.
There are no good Republicans, there are no bad Democrats.
The goal of the Democratic Party should be throwing every last Republican in political office, at any level, anyplace out on their ear.
Not a GOP Senator, Congressman, Mayor, or fucking Dog Catcher.
Fuck them all.
jamie
this is why you shouldn’t let people watch Beck and Fight Club.
pattonbt
@Mike in NC:
Heh. That is funny.
That is why I do not go for the snark when I write I just dont have the skill.
Mayur
@kay: There’s no pretense to being a “critical thinker” when one offers neither logical (or intelligible) proposition nor actual evidence in support of one’s meaningless statements.
Troll-y troll troll, I say. And good riddance.
Anne Laurie
If we still have 10% unemployment in 2012, the GOP will run Huckabee/Palin, or Gingrich/Keyes, or Jeb!/Quayle (Marilyn). And they will be defeated, although not by the margin they deserve. Because one of the few eternal verities in American politics is that when the economy goes in the crapper, the Repubs double down on their own patented brand of crazy, and a sufficient portion of the Low Information Voters who’d otherwise go for the sheer entertainment value realize they can’t afford circuses when they already out of bread.
Lesley
People like Makewi make me sick. All grown up and not a brain to speak of.
Imagine that little Republican shit and her toothless grin blathering a defense of health insurance companies. God, what a fucking knob.
I wish I could hurt her feelings, but these corrupt right wing pukes walking on two legs are impossible to get through to.
Poo on the ass of humanity is what they are.
General Winfield Stuck
@Lesley:
How do you know it’s a she? A toothless she?
gwangung
No, they’re just trolling. They can string words together, but have no intention of offering a serious argument.
pip
Trolls . . .
Let’s talk about the odds of where the first politician gets whacked.
Odds are Florida.
FlipYrWhig
And thus Makewi gave a whole new meaning to the phrase “mental masturbation.”
PaulB
This was funny, though:
Aside from the first sentence, every sentence in the paragraph is not only a lie, but a really, really stupid lie, since the truth is so easy to find. Gotta love a troll/nutcase who makes it so easy to identify themselves.
General Winfield Stuck
@kay:
I plan to steal that for future use.
Chuck Butcher
Sometimes I can feel my dedication to politics slipping away, people like Bender and Makewi remind me why it matters. Even for small wins.
Lesley
@General Winfield Stuck:
its manner of speaking is feminine.
(bonus for me if I’m wrong about the sex. rightard males get pissed when they’re thought of as female.)
General Winfield Stuck
@Lesley:
This is deliciously devious. And I love it.
Anne Laurie
True. And as a troll-dismissal, impeccable!
Chuck Butcher
@Anne Laurie:
Gee, Anne; Thanks
Wile E. Quixote
@Makewi
McMegan McArdle, is that you?
Ambergris
Moreover, I advise that it’ll be constantly repeated that medicare is government-run health-care.
kay
“The “especially loud and persistent heckler”, was Bob Parmelee, who is active in the Bastrop Republican Party. He began shouting as Representative Doggett made his opening remarks. When he continued, he was taken outside by the police. The shouting could be heard through the open doors at the back. Eventually, Parmelee was allowed back inside, but continued to shout, and had to be taken out four times by the police. Seen standing in this group was Art Kownslar, who in addition to being a Minuteman, is also Treasurer of the Bastrop County Republican Party.”
On the County or District level, locals know who these people are, because if you’re active at a county or district level, you just know the various players.
The heckled House member knows them too.
Why should a Democratic House member fold to the demands of people who have not and will not, ever, vote for him or her? Not just “not vote” for him, but indeed are local GOP Party leaders who will be leading the effort to unseat that House member, regardless of any position on health care?
What’s the pay-off for the Democrat if he blocks health care reform?
It’s a net loss of votes. One Democratic base voter he was sure to get is gone, and one GOP base voter he was never going to get, he still doesn’t get.
Shygetz
How long until we hear that the death threat was made by a stealth liberal trying to discredit the teabag movement?
El Cid
Plus it’s astoundingly short-sighted. Pass a real health-care reform, and you’ve got votes just for finally doing something.
Once a reform health plan actually begins functioning and if it’s good enough to actually start helping your constituents (i.e., you didn’t screw out all the decent things likely to help the public in favor of industry bullshit and crazy anti-government ideologues), you’ve got an electoral base for your run on your actual accomplishment for a long, long time.
And why can’t more Democrats seem to get this? I.e., yeah, I want to get this reform done and done right because when it’s enacted and starts making peoples’ lives better I can run on it as a real accomplishment. That’s what politicians are supposed to do.
kay
@El Cid:
It’s just an opinion. I’m not a pro or anything, but I am locally active, so here goes.
Say Dogget resists the media push against reform, Dogget knows who the treasurer of the county GOP is, so he’s going to discount that heckler, say Dogget votes for reform.
His Democratic base is energized, and the fact is the GOP are lying about the results of reform.
There are NOT going to be government workers killing old people. So reform passes and none of what they said would happen…happens. We know it won’t. He knows it won’t.
Absolute worst case is he voted for reform that caused no harm, and his Democratic base love him for it, so turn out for a midterm.
If he blocks reform, this happens: the GOP base (the hecklers) have a win, they’re energized to beat him, his Democratic base are dispirited and pissed off, and there is no reform of health care, but his GOP opponent will say he tried to kill old people, anyway.
I think he definitely loses if he blocks reform, and he might lose if he promotes reform. I would pick “reform”, if I’m him.
Just as an aside, you’d have to read the various proposals, but all of them have trigger dates, and none of them are going to kick in completely prior to 2010. They phase in.
asiangrrlMN
@El Cid: You are refreshingly optimistic without being a Pollyanna. I am feeling really, really down about this whole issue. You make me feel a little bit better, so thank you.
@Richard Bottoms: I echo this. Look, I would love to have a reasonable debate with the Republicans about issues such as this, but that would mean that they would be willing to propose reasonable alternatives and not just fallacious talking points that have no basis in our reality.
Barbara Cooper
@Molly
At this point, I’d love to cancel all of these town halls due to general wingnuttery threats of violence.
But then the terrorists would win.
Why not arrange them all to be at exactly the same time? There are only so many buses full of these paid protesters, and they absolutely cannot be in all places at all times. It would be a logistic nightmare, but SO worth it!
ksmiami
Republicans: 2009 – Mean as hell people wrapped up around mean as hell policies.
WE will never ever ever vote Republican again in our lifetimes
Brick Oven Bill
F.T.R. BOB #126 is a bad fake.
Bender
There are no good Republicans, there are no bad Democrats.
That’s so simpleminded that it marks Richard Bottoms as a retard. Shorter RB: “Party Labels — it’s easier than thinking!” I’m guessing that his head exploded whenever he saw Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller. Or when he sees Blue Dogs threatening to jump the aisle to derail Teh Zero’s agenda. Funny stuff…
All the thieves, gross incompetents, and Corruptocrats in the Democratic Party, like “Cold Cash” Jefferson, Barney Frank, Marion Berry, Jim McGreevey, Alcee Hastings, Ray Nagin, Rod Blagalphabet, etc. etc. etc., thank you for your mind-numbed obedience.
Hunter Gathers
@Bender: All the Dems did was lie, cheat, and steal. The GOP lies, cheats, steals, starts wars based on cooked intelligence, and rounded people up and tortured them on the basis of skin color and faith. If you compare the two, the GOP wins the sleaze contest by a mile.
You are a disgrace to your robot heritage.
henqiguai
@cliff (#160):
As usual, waaay late to the conversation
<So, cliff –
I know this works in Firefox, but I have yet to find the function in IE wherein highlighting a string will display an automatic Google search option in the popup menu. Where’s it located, or are you assuming everyone’s running Firefox ?
woeful crackers
May we always have mortal enemies who are too frickin stupid to use *67 when they phone in a death threat.
EarBucket
@ Church Lady
You must not be very good at using Google. This ABC story is the second result on Google News for “Brad Miller death threat.”
Gravenstone
Maybe it’s just me, but is anyone else getting the vibe that Makewi is really Goat Boy, Mk. III?
Bender
All the Dems did was lie, cheat, and steal. The GOP lies, cheats, steals, starts wars based on cooked intelligence, and rounded people up and tortured them on the basis of skin color and faith.
Even accepting your ahistorical spin on Iraq and the War on Terror… Democrats voted against the Iraq war? That will be news to them, and to the history books, and to Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Tom Daschle, Teddy Kennedy, and the other Democrats who committed acts of war against Iraq during Clinton’s term based on now-discredited (or as you would say, “cooked”) information about Iraq’s WMD.
And we now know that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats knew all about the “torture,” and their only question was, is it enough?
cliff
@henqiguai:
hey moron, IE does the same.
highlight. right-click. search with google.
There is NO excuse for reasonable people to spout blather at people that can be EASILY Searched. Its the exact same bullshit line that hanitty spouted at a reasonable D caller just hours before I posted, do you Really want to be associated with similar behavior as the extreme right!?
just do the damm search and refute it with logic , not bile and hate!