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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / A Small Triumph of Civility Over Stupid

A Small Triumph of Civility Over Stupid

by John Cole|  September 4, 20094:03 pm| 69 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics

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This was refreshing:

Of course, no doubt this conversation would have been better if there had been some crazy wingnuts carrying guns, screaming “socialism” and “keep government out of my medicare,” and some Obama=Hitler signs, because I’ve spent the last month being assured by glibertarian bloggers that that is how democracy works.

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69Comments

  1. 1.

    Dave L

    September 4, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    They’re all from Minnesota; it’s an outlier.

  2. 2.

    Parole Officer Burke

    September 4, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    @Dave L:

    Sometimes I wonder whether or not everything from Minnesota is an outlier.

  3. 3.

    EnderWiggin

    September 4, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    But Sean and Rush have explained what a radical jerk he is, so this must be staged.

  4. 4.

    DougMN

    September 4, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    What a patient man. I could not have done it.

  5. 5.

    lutton

    September 4, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    OT: http://armyofdude.blogspot.com/2009/09/through-amber-lenses-light.html

    The United States lost a brave soldier, and the military blog community lost a brave new voice. I ask that you take the time to read his blog from beginning to end. In his comments section, his girlfriend tells us the blog was important to him. I hope he realized how important it was to those who read it.

  6. 6.

    Lola

    September 4, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Honestly I think liberal blogs have been just as bad as the traditional media in feeding the whole “wingers are taking over the world meme.” Why are we giving these nuts free publicity and more power than they actually have?

    Why not air stories of people who are suffering in our current health care system? I love this blog but this recent emphasis on right wing extremism isn’t my favorite course. It also seems to bring out the trolls.

  7. 7.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    September 4, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    The guy who posted the video says that he hasn’t posted the entire video yet. It really was ugly earlier on, according to the guy who filmed this, but he wanted to post the most constructive part first. Good on him.

    Franken really is a decent fellow and treats his constituents as adults and engages them in real dialog. Paul Wellstone would be proud.

    Ya done good Minnesota.

  8. 8.

    General Winfield Stuck

    September 4, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    That does it. I’ve been thinking all along, we need more comedians in government. When they act sober and serious, it is has some meaning.

    Bill Murray for Homeland Security —

    Steve Martin– Secretary of State

    Jon Stewart/Colbert for presnit on bipartisan ticket, sort of.

  9. 9.

    Capn America

    September 4, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    What pisses me off most is how so many of these town hall idiots are motivated by accusations that “illegal immigrants” are getting free health care. Why did Franken even mention the whole Hispanic thing about McAllen, that’s just red meat for these people.

  10. 10.

    cleek

    September 4, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    that was pretty awesome. guy knows his stuff and can talk about it, even with stupidity glaring at him.

  11. 11.

    Miriam

    September 4, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    I am so proud that this man is my senator. Now if we can only get the OTHER Democratic Senator (Klobuchar) on board with the public option maybe we can get somewhere.

  12. 12.

    gwangung

    September 4, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Actually,this has lots of merit….all these guys are preternaturally sharp and smart…

  13. 13.

    licensed to kill time

    September 4, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    I like the way he talks so naturally, not talking down to people or mocking them a la Michael Steele. Definitely not the canned politico-speak you get from most politicians.

  14. 14.

    JK

    September 4, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    OT More embarrassing news for Van Jones

    Jones likens Bush to a ‘crackhead’ in latest video gaffe
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-…..ideo-gaffe

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoc34dvh9AM

  15. 15.

    Matt

    September 4, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    I don’t get it. Why is no one exercising their God-given right to carry an assault rifle while asking questions about health care?

  16. 16.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    September 4, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    @Capn America: Because it is true. As a matter of fact most of the Hispanics living in the SW probably have deeper and older roots in that part of the country than many of the people Franken was talking to have in Minnesota. Much of the upper midwest was settled by people who came here 150-200 years after the Spanish began settling TX, AZ, NM. Of course, the indigenous peoples have been in the area for thousands of years.

  17. 17.

    Brendan

    September 4, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I love how he weaved several people’s questions into each answer and addressed their follwoups as well.

  18. 18.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    September 4, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck: I personally want Chris Rock as Prez.

  19. 19.

    eyepaddle

    September 4, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    This is the Al Franken I’ve been waiting for, unflappable and well infomred, not just giving in and looking like a deer in the headlights. I think he has a bright future in the Senate.

    @The Grand Panjandrum

    Thanks for that! We as Minnesotans had to work hard as hell to make this happen, consider it atonement for Bachman (and very soon you’ll see why) Tim Pawlenty.

  20. 20.

    GP

    September 4, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    Now that man is sane… He needs to get on the news shows

  21. 21.

    gopher2b

    September 4, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    @DougMN:

    It’s kind of his job.

  22. 22.

    SGEW

    September 4, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    @JK:

    Jones likens Bush to a ‘crackhead’ in latest video gaffe

    From the video: “I’m sorry, I must speak some Ebonics up here. Good luck with the translation.”

    I’m starting to seriously love this guy.

  23. 23.

    gopher2b

    September 4, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    @cleek:

    you’re part of the problem

  24. 24.

    HyperIon

    September 4, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    It’s hard for me to imagine attendees at the state fair (in the bosom of “Minnesota nice”) being pitch-fork angry. So I’d like to see the material at the start.

  25. 25.

    licensed to kill time

    September 4, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    It is kind of ironic that a comedian handles himself like an informed and well-spoken politician, while most Republican politicians nowadays are coming off like, well – comedians.

  26. 26.

    metalgirl

    September 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    LOVE Al Franken – so smart and informed. I hope some of his smarts rubs off on the Rs :) (one can hope)

  27. 27.

    freelancer

    September 4, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    I’m jealous of Minnesota right now. All I have is Blue Dog Ben Nelson, and former Governor and Bush AgSec Mike Johanns.

  28. 28.

    Smudgemo

    September 4, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum:
    White folks only want to hear the good shit: life eternal, a place in God’s Heaven. But as soon as they hear they’re getting this good shit from a black Jesus, they freak.
    And that, my friends, is called hypocrisy. A black man can steal your stereo, but he can’t be your Savior. -Chris Rock as Rufus, The 13th Apostle in “Dogma.”

  29. 29.

    Jay in Oregon

    September 4, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    @EnderWiggin:

    You beat me to it.

    That was an interesting discussion, but no one will take it seriously because Franken was a “mere” comedian.

  30. 30.

    Xenos

    September 4, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Black T-shirt Tea-party lady sure looked bored after a few minutes of discussion about reality. The woman to her right (her mother?) seemed a lot smarter.

  31. 31.

    gwangung

    September 4, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    Off topic, but…

    http://www.calnurses.org/media-center/press-releases/2009/september/california-s-real-death-panels-insurers-deny-21-of-claims.html

    What gets me is that some times insurers will reverse themselves, but the time lost almost always means that you knock down the chances at survival.

  32. 32.

    Ole

    September 4, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Aaaah. Minnesota State Fair. I was there visiting before the actual opening of the fair last year but unfortunately didn’t get the chance to speak to Franken in the midst of his campaign.

    Had to settle for the cows, sows and other assorted livestock.

    Minneapolis is a nice place, though. A tip’o the hat for electing a guy with actual brains :-)

  33. 33.

    Mr Furious

    September 4, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    You’re looking at the smartest Senator in the whole damn place right there.

    That’s why the GOP was afraid of him. Everyone of those teabaggers is going to walk away from that discussion—at the very least—questioning what they thought they knew.

  34. 34.

    DonkeyKong

    September 4, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    If you watch to much cable news it can feel like holding off an army of brain eating zombies in a George Romeo flick.

    If you’re in a blue state they seem like the slow movers in the 1978 Dawn of the Dead.

    If you’re in a red state they’re more like the fast movers in the 2004 version.

  35. 35.

    Ole

    September 4, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    (St. Paul actually as far as the fair is concerned, I know. Even got a St. Paul Saints cap (they lost the game though) … but that’s as far as it went. Minneapolis for the rest of the stay.)

  36. 36.

    Jay B.

    September 4, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    The one guy starts in on preventative care and complains that there aren’t enough doctors to give it — it’s a golden opportunity to point out that we’re living in a broken health care system. That insurance companies don’t want preventative care necessarily because that costs them money up front — when they don’t mind denying catastrophic care (with caps) later. For them its somewhat of a win-win.

    Second, and I don’t know why this isn’t the easiest thing in the world to say — for all the talk about socialism, this is a good business decision for Americans. Other countries pay half, or less, than Americans do per capita. Taxes might go up, but that would be offset by lower insurance premiums, less out of pocket prescription spending, protection against catastrophic illness, presumably better preventive care ALL while receiving the same or better health care than we do now.

    After pointing this out, HOW HARD would it be to then say “Those insurance companies sure do have some racket, don’t they? They don’t pay for preventive treatment so they can deny you claims later, all while helping drive health care costs through the roof for insurance they try to deny you when you most need it. If they want to compete, then they should compete against a government option — so people can know they’re not being gamed. If the insurance companies aren’t gaming the system, what do they have to worry about?

    Franken spoke with civility, but he spoke too long and wasn’t making some obvious points that help to frame the debate.

  37. 37.

    Leelee for Obama

    September 4, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    {{comedians.}}

    I think you mean clowns.

  38. 38.

    dr. bloor

    September 4, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    @Xenos:

    Black T-shirt Tea-party lady sure looked bored after a few minutes of discussion about reality. The woman to her right (her mother?) seemed a lot smarter.

    Pretty sure she’s bored because she was looking for a fight, not information. Nothing will suck the life out of rage like a reasoned response.

  39. 39.

    henqiguai

    September 4, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Now, let’s see if this comment goes into the ole bit bucket…

    Franken spoke with civility, but he spoke too long and wasn’t making some obvious points that help to frame the debate.

    Well, yeah, he went long. He was responoding to a set of specific questions, in a more or less one-on-one scenario. To attempt to give a short pithy stump-style framing response would have been disingenuous and more easily dismissed. And further, a group of fair goers is probably not the best group to which to pitch a framing speech.

  40. 40.

    dr. bloor

    September 4, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    @Jay B.:

    Second, and I don’t know why this isn’t the easiest thing in the world to say—for all the talk about socialism, this is a good business decision for Americans. Other countries pay half, or less, than Americans do per capita. Taxes might go up, but that would be offset by lower insurance premiums, less out of pocket prescription spending, protection against catastrophic illness, presumably better preventive care ALL while receiving the same or better health care than we do now.

    This is correct, but one problem is that it may not immediately resonate with many who have employer-provided health insurance, as they often don’t think in terms of “premiums” as much as they do in terms of “deductibles” and “copays.” Sadly, the opportunity for real reform may have passed by the time they start getting nailed with big deductibles (i.e., several thousand dollars per year per insured member) and/or their employers start passing along a bigger percentage of the policy cost to the worker.

  41. 41.

    ironranger

    September 4, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Dustytrice has some great photos of crop art at the MN state fair. Michele Bachmann, tenthers are subjects.

  42. 42.

    EEH

    September 4, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum: Amen.

    As someone who grew up in Southern Arizona it amazes me that people have no idea how old the cities are in that part of the country or how rich the history. Tucson? Established 1775. San Francisco? Established 1776. The Southwest was not a vast wasteland until the first wagon train came hoving into view.

    My brother-in-law is from the Durango, CO area and can trace his lineage all the way back to when that part of the country was Mexico.

  43. 43.

    someguy

    September 4, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    Oh look… it’s a concern troll about how we need to take care to show more civility than those stupid teabagging Republican cretins…

  44. 44.

    Fern

    September 4, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    I dunno – I’d hesitate to call the people in that video stupid – uninformed, ill-informed, ignorant (in the sense of not knowing stuff) maybe, but not stupid.

  45. 45.

    Fern

    September 4, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    @henqiguai:

    If it had been too long, they would have left. But they were engaged, asking questions, etc.

  46. 46.

    Demo Woman

    September 4, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    @JK: Bush was a crackhead.

  47. 47.

    Bruce (formerly Steve S.)

    September 4, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    I already see a major problem with Senator Franken’s approach. He’s speaking calmly, rationally, and appealing to people’s best instincts. Sorry, Senator, this isn’t the Star Trek universe, this is the United States. You’ll never get anywhere with the stupidest quintile and mass media pundits this way.

  48. 48.

    tigrismus

    September 4, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    @Capn America: I think he mentioned the nearly identical demographics in the two towns he was contrasting specifically because there was no way to blame the cost-for-care differences on immigrants.

  49. 49.

    Paul

    September 4, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    Even better, at the MN state fair today, Al Franken drew a map of the 48 states contiguous states, plus Alaska and hawaii, from memory, on a whiteboard.

    (he started with Minnesota, appropriately enough)

    A senator who knows his geography. What a concept!

    Can your Senator do that?

  50. 50.

    EJ

    September 4, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    @Bruce – 47

    Like someone pointed out, this is Minnesota. Even right-wingers are willing to engage in rational conversation. It’s an outlier.

  51. 51.

    mai naem

    September 4, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    I watched this and was really impressed by Franken. He’s pretty wonkish. For people wondering who was going to take over for Teddy Kennedy, I think Al’s definitely got the potential.

  52. 52.

    discsmasher

    September 4, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    The best part of this is Franken making the point I seldom see made loud enough by the Democratic politicians driving this thing: sky-high premiums and no public option makes it harder for people to change jobs, harder for people to start their own businesses, and harder for rugged individualists to leave stagnant jobs to go on with a small company that gives them upside. All of this stifles “free market” innovation and the entrepreneurial spirit far more than the threat of a “socialist” tax hike on top brackets.

    If I leave my job to start my own business and have the basic public healthcare coverage every citizen of a Western capitalist democracy has, I’m happy to take the change of a slightly higher tax rate if the company is a smashing success — especially since I can deduct everything as the company is still growing and investing in capital.

  53. 53.

    Irony Abounds

    September 4, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    It is truly ironic that Franken is demonized by Limbaugh and O’Reilly for being just a clown. The truth is Al is fairly wonkish and if anything was criticized for being too lacking in humor during the 20098 campaign. I’m kind of sorry he’s stuck in the Senate and rather dull. I truly enjoyed the satirical bite he had in his books.

  54. 54.

    bellatrys

    September 4, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Advantage of having a comedian in office – s/he will surely have much practice dealing w/hecklers and have developed both the thick skin and the quick tongue needful for dealing with them!

  55. 55.

    Political Pragmatist

    September 4, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    “How do we pay for this?”

    We are already paying for it and then some. We have higher costs and cover fewer people with better results than other industrialized nations. How hard is it to figure out that if we simply do it right, we will save money?

    Medicare is less expensive per capita than private insurance, with older and sicker patients, and the VA is half the cost with some of the greatest-needs patients in the country.

    This is not a good argument–cost–but it seems to work because Democrats can’t figure out how to answer it.

  56. 56.

    Rob C.

    September 4, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    What was not refreshing was watching a U.S. senator having to disabuse people of a bunch of myths and lies they’ve been fed by the Republican noise machine.

  57. 57.

    PhoenixRising

    September 4, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    Can your Senator do that?

    You know, I don’t know, but we should sell tickets to watch him try.

    (Of course, that’s only funny now that Pajamas Pete has retired. If Tom Udall can’t draw the US map and label it correctly, that would be funny.)

    And amen again to the point, Not all Hispanics/Latinos are immigrants. Tomorrow I’m taking my kid to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the oldest capital city north of Tenochtitlán, more recently known as Mexico, D.F.

    Ole and Lena can just adjust themselves to their status as recent arrivals.

  58. 58.

    You Don't Say

    September 4, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    I think Franken is going to be a great senator. I think some people so underestimate him.

  59. 59.

    Chad N Freude

    September 4, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    @Irony Abounds: I don’t mean to be snarky, but please reread what you wrote:

    I’m kind of sorry he’s stuck in the Senate and rather dull.

    I can’t believe that you would prefer that someone with the dullness (i.e., gravitas) displayed in that clip be onstage making jokes instead of voting on legislation.

  60. 60.

    grumpy realist

    September 4, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Interesting up-and-down question whether Franken would have more power in the House–seniority counts for more in the Senate, but on the other hand, there are fewer Senators so his vote counts more.

    I do think that a wonkish character will work out better in the Senate, however–the Senators do like to think of themselves as being more reasonable and rational than that group of hotheads over there in the the House, and I think Franken can appeal to that.

  61. 61.

    Chad N Freude

    September 4, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    @grumpy realist: Grumpy, probably, realist … well, Franken is in the Senate in the real world. Maybe in some virtual world, where his position had not yet been settled, this would be interesting speculation, in the real world, not so much.

  62. 62.

    Paul

    September 4, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    Oh, and for those of you who want to see Franken show off his geography mad skills:

    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/09/04/al-franken-draws-a-map-of-the-us/?refid=0

  63. 63.

    trollhattan

    September 4, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    @Paul #63. Holy crap, pure nerd power!

    Franken/Hodgeman ’16

  64. 64.

    MelodyMaker

    September 4, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    @Ole:
    Falcon Heights, actually. I’m heading out there tomorrow.
    MPR.org had a video stream of the map drawing/Q&A. Not archived, but the audio is here.
    The guy is pretty great, and this bit is especially impressive. That lady in the middle seems visibly to get past her apparent scorn as I watch. Trice worked on the campaign, I think. Crooks and Liars had him linked as dusty rice. Not dirty rice, like in NOLA, so I guess it’s like the rest of the food here in MN.
    http://www.dustytrice.com/

  65. 65.

    MelodyMaker

    September 4, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    @Paul:
    D’oh! I didn’t look hard enough? thanks!

  66. 66.

    MelodyMaker

    September 4, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    I miss edit. The mpr link I put in 65 is Al being wonky. He’s answering audience policy questions while he’s drawing.
    As usual, my thread-killing skills don’t fail.

  67. 67.

    Beej

    September 4, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    @freelancer: So you’re a Nebraskan too. Isn’t it fun having The Amazing Frozen Hair and Howdy Doody as senators? I actually had some hope for Nelson, even though he’s had a long association with the insurance industry. That hope is now gone, sad to say. He’s not going to vote for a public option unless he can be convinced he’s not going to be re-elected if he doesn’t. Not much chance of that happening. I guess we should be glad, and not a little surprised, that he actually supports a ban on denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions. Well, first Husker game of season tomorrow. It’ll be nice not to have to think about this stuff for a while.

  68. 68.

    Tropical Fats

    September 5, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    I wish he were my senator. But I’ve got Evan Bayh.

    Life isn’t fair.

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Trackbacks

  1. Ya Betcha they are nice « A Man With A Ph.D. says:
    September 4, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    […] Betcha they are nice September 4, 2009 — Richard A Small Triumph of Civility Over Stupid: [Via Balloon Juice] This was […]

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