This is beyond laughable:
It’s Christmas day, and the only thing that stopped 12/25 from feeling a lot like 9/11 was a failed detonator and a guy named Jasper Schuringa. Weather now seems like a quaint travel threat – like a cold does compared to the Bubonic Plague.
It’s December 26, and the last of my guests arrive keenly aware of what happened over the skies of Detroit. Across America, everybody’s gut tightens and old fears and old wounds re-open.
Meanwhile, the president continues his vacation.
America lucked out this holiday season. It’s as simple as that. Something terrible could have happened and It was the bravery of passengers, and the ineptitude of a would-be terrorist, that prevented it.
***Yes, the president deserves a vacation. Especially this president, who I believe has worked so hard on issues he cares about to the best of his ability; who is attacked and stalled by enemies for every attempt to fix every ill he inherited over the last eight years.
This is a man who needs a break.
But that vacation should have been over moments after the plane landed at noon on Christmas day, and everybody was starting to do the math that once again, al Qaeda tried to strike at this country.
Yes. Obama should immediately have rushed to a microphone and said everything is going to be ok, and spoken reassuringly so pantswetting morans like Steve Marmel would be comfortable. He probably should have worn a flight suit and ordered an invasion of the Netherlands to make everyone really feel safe.
Someone burp this whiner and hand him a wetnap.
(via)
Max
Did you read Marc Ambinders piece on this specific point?
It’s really good.
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/12/why_obamas_golfing.php
Stroszek
Maybe one of Arianna’s “medical experts” can suggest a nice homeopathic remedy for indignant thumbsucking.
Emma
All I keep thinking is of places like the UK and Spain who have dealt for decades with terrorism without pissing their pants. In one instance, when ETA killed some policeman or judge or something people in all the cities of Spain took to the streets in protest. In Madrid, all three of the King’s children marched at the head of the crowd. It was like saying: here we are in a crowd, come do your worst.
Then the train bombs came, and the government tried to accuse ETA of it because they wanted to stampede people into voting for them in the elections coming up. When people realized what was going on they handed them their asses. It was the biggest political warning to politicians in the last twenty years: lie to us and you’re toast.
This was seen in the American media as surrendering to terrorists.
Sometimes I weep.
Phyllis
And in other news, the sky is still falling in wingnuttia land.
mk3872
Why won’t the MSM or our press corps ever call-out crybabies the way that John does here?
Pete King, Joe Lieberman, Dick Cheney, et al are not any more patriotic or strong on national security.
They’re just more scared and give in to primal urges to immediately shout, scream and go to war.
No matter how much Huffington and Hamsher hate Obama’s coolness, I do appreciate it at times like this.
Theron
It’s not like the Dutch don’t deserve it anyway. If there’s an even 1% chance they might be hiding something at the bottom of those canals, we need to invade now.
mk3872
Can a failed plane bomb from some dork’s underwear REALLY compare to the thousands that perished from 3 airliners crashing into the World Trade Center on 9/11 ??
NobodySpecial
I would say something, but I’d just get trolled by bago again.
MikeJ
The most important thing is that Man U, the guys in the AIG shirts, the Yankees of the Premier League, don’t look like they’ll be able to beat Hull, ranked 19th out of 20 teams. Today could be a very good day.
donovong
This guy is a COMEDIAN and TV PRODUCER. Who the fuck cares what he thinks?
Of course, this is what passes for insightful commentary on HuffPOS anymore.
Max
Also, too. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but Tapper made a good point on “This Week” in that Bush didn’t make any statements when the Richard Reid Shoe Bomber thing occured.
Chat Noir
@Max: And Steve Benen mentions the Atlantic piece you link to, Max.
I like this paragraph:
Theron
[email protected]: When people realized what was going on they handed them their asses. It was the biggest political warning to politicians in the last twenty years lie to us and you’re toast.
This was seen in the American media assurrendering to terrorists.
Because no one in our media can read Spanish or even bothered. That the
FrenchSpanish are cheese eating surrender monkeys is basic Ur-knowledge no one ever has to research.Guster
The only way to extinguish a pants-fire is with bedwetting.
Violet
@Emma:
Yep. When the London train bombings happened, we phoned to check on family and friends. To a person they were either making jokes, complaining about how long it took them to get to work, or shrugging. London didn’t shut down. They just went on their way about their business.
Later we heard they were laughing at the ridiculous coverage on the US about the whole incident. Like…. Why weren’t the Londoners more frightened! Why didn’t they sing “God Save the Queen” in front of Buckingham Palace! How could they possibly just go on as if nothing had happened! Be scared, dammit!
But if you’ve lived through all the IRA bombings and threats, you just kind of get to the point where you say, “F*ck it. Those terrorists aren’t going to stop me from doing what I want.”
I wish we could learn from them. Or at least I wish the Republican crybabies would learn what real strength looks like.
Bob In Pacifica
Because of this airlines are requiring that passengers must remain in their seats for the last hour of each flight.
That doesn’t even make any sense. If Jasper had stayed in his seat then the terrorist could have continued fiddling with his bomb. And do terrorists have a new rule requiring that they only blow up planes on the last hour of their flights?
Wouldn’t it be more appropriate that passengers fly without pants?
calipgyian
I wonder if the United States if full of pant shitting cowards because of the lack of horrific events in our historical memories on US soil.
England withstands terrorist attacks better because of the destruction of Coventry during WWII, or the thousands lost in the Battle of Britain, or the fear of instantaneous death during the second blitz of V1 and V2 weapons at the end of WWII (think Gravity’s Rainbow).
Spain stands up after being hardened by the most horrific civil war in Europe in the 20th century, a war that killed two million people in a little more than three years.
MikeJ
@Violet:
Keep Calm and Carry On.
jwb
@Chat Noir: I liked all the comments accusing Ambinders of being a leftist.
AhabTRuler
Anyone remember this. Maybe we should buy up weareafraid.com for the US.
Violet
@Bob In Pacifica:
Yeah, it makes no sense at all. It’s not like terrorists have some rule where they can only bomb planes in the last hour of flight. It’s the equivalent of beating your arm with a hammer because you have a headache – at least you’ll forget about the headache because your arm will hurt so much.
I guess the Ryan Air CEO will be happy, though. He’s talking about charging for visits to the lavatory. If people can’t get out of their seats anyway, he might as well take out the lavatories and add extra seats.
David
Remember, the Wingnuts attacked Obama for his secret, magical ability to hypnotize children.
It doesn’t matter what Obama says- or doesn’t say. It doesn’t matter what he does- or doesn’t do, the Wingnuts will criticize no matter how absurd it makes them appear. They’re willing to toss out any dignity in pursuit of their partisanship.
asdf
If we refuse to be terrorized, the terrorists cannot win.
Emma
Callipgyan: I think there’s something to that, but it’s not all of it. I think in many ways people take their response from their government and their media. In both countries the response always has (in general) been nothing you do will stop us from being us. I think that makes a huge difference.
AhabTRuler
@calipgyian:
Wait, Britons were forced to engage in Sadomasochism and scat games in WWII?
John Cole
@Max: I thought Tapper did a good job- much better than Stretch does over at NBC. And he had a good panel. There were a couple things that made me cringe, but I would have to read the transcript to remember them, so by Beltway standards they were not that bad. The only thing that was odd was the last ten minutes was really over-produced and had weird transitions to commercials.
I don’t think Brooks or Marcus had anything interesting to say, but Krugman and Matthew Dowd form a solid basis for a panel. I did reel when Brooks announced he supports single payer.
srv
Confirmation that Mousavi’s nephew was killed in the Tehran clashes.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE5BQ0AG.htm
I don’t go there, but I assume Sully is in bold green now.
You Don't Say
OK, so the new argument (by Greenwald, DKos diarists) is that “left-right” paradigm is now obsolete. Now it’s anyone opposed to “corporatism” or the merger of corporate and government interests.
Greenwald is crazy if he thinks Norquist, et al, oppose HCR or anything else that comes out of a Democratic WH or Congress because they are opposed to corporations benefiting from government largesse.
valdivia
@Emma:
in line with what you are saying I posted this in a previous thread and with indulgence repost it here:
I get why the media is tantalized by violence and shocking stories of ‘terror’. But it is not hard to see King and his ilk are trying to blame Obama for something that could have happened but did not. What matters is that it did not, and yet they still want to play it as if it had.
One of the contradictions of the Republicans and neocons is that they think of themselves as hard asses on terror issues. People all over the world who have experienced constant terrorism in their daily lives deal with it by moving on instead of screaming. They go to work, are vigilant etc. No one goes on and on about the tragedy that could have been only the dimwitted cowards of the republican party.
Theron
The pants-wetting is a feature, not a bug, as they say. What we call “conservatives” in America are really authoritarians, and authoritarians are motivated primarily be fear. Fear defines them, and it is also their path to power.
The Tim Channel
Where all this “reactionary security” inevitably leads……
http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/bending-america-over/
Enjoy.
bemused
It’s hard to forget GW, golfing while on vacation, saying to reporters in almost one breath that all nations should do everything they can to stop terrorists & “Now watch this drive”.
When was GW not on vacation?
John Cole
@You Don’t Say: Anyone who thinks that the left-right paradigm is over is in for a big shock once they help run Obama and the Democrats out of power. The result of Obama’s downfall will not be the election of the Nader/Kucinich ticket. And once the Republicans are firmly back in power, all these progressives cheering about the new paradigm will learn that, in fact, the left-right paradigm is alive and well.
I’m always surprised there are so many really fucking stupid smart people out there.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@asdf:
The turr’ists won the instant the Supreme Court selected Dubya to be preznit. The Cheney Administration’s (and by extension, the entire Republican Party) handling of all things 9/11 resulted in a country easily turrurized. The so-called Patriot Act is a prime example.
Heckuva job Bushie.
JenJen
Three Words: My Pet Goat.
Max
@John Cole: Tapper is posting transcripts on his Twitter feed.
I appreciate listening to smart and thoughtful people on both sides and I wish there was a place to find that. I would love for their to be real dialog on Sunday mornings. I hate what MTP has become (and I liked Tim most because he’s a Bills fan). I hope that with Stef leaving This Week, they capitalize on the void in the timeslot and actually put together a show worth watching. i.e. purge Cokie, and George Will, etal.
ETA – Totally off topic, but jesus cristos, why can’t the people over at CNN do something about Candy Crowley’s makeup. She’s lost weight, let’s pretty her up. Stop the 1980’s makeup, the unflattering hair and the man-suits. I’m not saying put her in pink and crimp her hair, but somebody’s really doing her a disservice.
And I’m a girl, so I’ve got a pass to say this.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@John Cole:
This can be summed up in two words:
Ralph Nader, 2000 Presidential Election
Oops, that’s 5 words and a comma. Nonetheless, it’s depressing to see fellow lefties forget recent history…which means, to trot out the old cliche, they’re doomed to repeat it.
I wanted to strangle every Nader voter in 2000 and will gladly strangle anybody who votes for some hopeless 3rd party candidate next time around for much the same reasons you heard why they voted for Nader. Fucking morans.
And yeah, President McCain would be just like the Obama Adminstration.
Sigh.
Stroszek
@John Cole: The thing about emotionally driven people, even emotionally driven smart people, is that they just kind of forget everything that falls outside the two week bubble of the outrage du jour. Facts are easy to remember. A sense of outrage is not.
See also: Swing voters.
JGabriel
Meanwhile, out in the real world, Obama is on track to become the first president in 20 years to get through his inaugural year in office without a major terrorist attack. This is the same guy the bedwetters are trying to say is weak on terror.
Explain to me again how the liberals are all pussies?
.
CalD
It’s times like this I’m really glad I’ve sworn off cable news. But I was still disappointed in that today was actually the first Sunday in like a year that I actually had any interest in watching the Sunday shows. I was naive enough to think I might hear something I didn’t already know about the healthcare reform endgame.
But I only caught the last few minutes of This Week and suprise, surprise, FTN and MTP — I didn’t even bother checking CNN — had already flipped into all-pantswetting-all-the-time-mode. With the possible exception of This Week (which I never seem to get up early enough to watch) they’ve really devolved into nothing more than a weekly extension of information-free cable news programming.
JGabriel
comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
Fixed that for you. The GOPer’s are free to vote for whatever third party they like, in fact, they are encouraged to do so.
Really, really, encouraged…
.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
So, we are not afraid of terrorists, that’s good.
But we are afraid of Nader and Kucinich?
( rolls eyes )
Yes, that dynamic duo will promise to push single payer through their new Republican congress.
A corpse, and a leprechaun. Already I am shivering in my boots.
mcd410x
@Emma: This.
I’m much more scared of what the TSA has in store for me when I fly.
I flew to London on Sept. 16, 2001, and it never occurred to me not to go. The only thing I was worried about is whether they’d resume international travel in time. And it was one of the best vacations I’ve taken.
eastriver
This guy obviously needs some pictures of JC’s pets. Hop to it.
Sly
@Violet:
I could describe DC in almost the same terms following 9/11, and I lived a few blocks from the WH at the time.
Some people panicked after the initial reports that the National Mall had caught fire (the entire Mall… yeah) and the State Department had been blown up by a car bomb. But after 48 hours the place felt normal again. I chalk this up to most of the tourists leaving within a few days.
NY was in panic mode for a little while, I suppose. But I was able to go back in early October and everyone walked around like it was August. NYC’s reputation, that being that the city would soon devolve into cannibalism should so much as the subways shut down for a few hours, is much undeserved. People often forget that the majority of those who started sifting through the rubble in the immediate aftermath were construction workers who walked off jobs around lower Manhattan and Brooklyn to go help.
MikeJ
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
I was flipping through the Economist, and there on page 11 was a story about Obama.
They then go on to talk about the “reset” with Russia, the “new beginning” with Muslims, and talking with Iran and North Korea.
I realise that you, CSAoR were being snarky. I’m simply amazed at so called lefties who can’t see Obama as clearly as The Economist.
Hull equalize!
valdivia
@You Don’t Say:
This by Booman yesterday is one of the best answers I have seen to this emerging idiocy from those parts. Al Giordano also has some good stuff on this. The thing I love–doesn’t Greenwald live in Brazil? If he were so so anti corporation he should be in Cuba and Venezuela where that is the model, but I guess Brazil is more convenient for spouting eh?
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio:
The new face of terror in America.
eastriver
@mcd410x:
I flew to London with my wife on 9/25/01. The plane was near empty. London was our oyster. The self-important TSA chatterboxes are a joke. Shmecurity.
Cat Lady
When did Republicans become such bedwetters? For most of my life, they were the boring sober suit wearing hard headed realists who ran companies and banks and didn’t let trends and emotions run away with them. Now, they’re all looking for a Big Daddy and cowering in public and private, and running to the nearest camera to proclaim it loudly and proudly, with no shame or self-awareness. Was that what they meant when they say 9/11 changed everything – we’re now free to proudly whinge and wet the bed all the time? WTF?
You Don't Say
@John Cole: It appears to be a rationale for the Hamsher-Norquist type alliances. But to argue that is anything more than pure opportunism on both sides is just nuts.
Mr Furious
What was Obama supposed to do? Tell everyone to go shopping? It happened on Christmas…it’s too late for THAT.
bago
@NobodySpecial: What, something about how pants-wetting(burning) fear can convince people that killing other people is a good idea?
Mr Furious
I would also add that clearly al qaeda has joined the liberals and opened a new front in the War on Christmas.
wasabi gasp
So which one of the fellas in the article is the Boobonic Man. The African guy, the hero guy, or the other African guy?
Corner Stone
It’s times like these that I just thank the good Lord that the Obama administration is pushing for the Patriot Act renewal.
Patriot Act renewal
h/t Josh Fulton via Corrente
Violet
@Sly:
I think the average person pretty much gets it – cowering in fear from terrorists means the terrorists are terrorizing you. That’s how it works. But our spokesmouths in the media don’t get it at all. They operate on fear like it’s Red Bull.
That’s definitely a difference between the UK media and the US media – the UK media didn’t go on and on ad nauseum about how the London attacks Changed Everything. Because they didn’t.
kay
I have to confess, I’ve been out of step since 9-11. I don’t get it at all.
Any prevention effort depends on so many moving parts and individuals that I just don’t understand the really childish insistence that this be predictable and follow a “pattern”.
Wasn’t the general consensus there wouldn’t be another shoe bomber typa terrorist attempt? So much for that theory.
I guess I just never bought the idea that if we were just more vigilant, nothing scary would ever happen. If the President tells me that, all I do is think, “well, that’s meant to comfort….someone other than me”. Maybe children?
I don’t rely on it or start to think it’s true or anything, because I never thought it was true.
Do people believe it when he actually says “this is completely under control” or is the act of saying it some sort of necessary “step towards acceptance” for them? Because that is true of children. They do want to hear the words. But they actually believe the words, unlike me.
srv
Not that I think these Progressives John Cole will build endless straw factories to exist in real numbers, but I’ll play.
In the minds of Real Democrats, if Gore had been elected, there would have been a successful campaign in Afghanistan, no direct association with 9/11, Gore and failed Clinton policies crippling his administration, no failed continuation of sanctions on Iraq (killing untold thousands), no Enron, no Patriot act, no TSA, no sweeping election of a Republican fear-mongerer in 2004, a 7th Fleet rescue of New Orleans, no housing bubble, no Wall St. malfeasance, no economic crash…
If there’s any magical thinking, why don’t y’all beat up yourselves for a few decades before getting hysterical about the Jane Hamsher’s of Teh Left.
ellaesther
Complete and total threadjack, of the most blatant variety:
The protests in Iran are huge (and bloody) today, it being the combined dates of the annual holy day (and height of the Shi’ite calendar) of Ashura, when the martyred Imam Hussein is commemorated and the focus is on the struggle of the world’s oppressed against their oppressors, and the 7th-day commemoration of the death of Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, preeminent Iranian cleric and powerful dissident figure (and one of the architects of the Islamic Republic — which he latterly said was neither Islamic nor a Republic, but “a mere dictatorship.”)
If you’re interested, here’s a list of places to follow events (starting, of course, with Sullivan’s blog) and here’s my take on why this day may well prove a turning point (and not just for Iran, frankly, but for the international community. That is to say: Us, too).
Corner Stone
@bago: How dare you mock NobodySpecial you insensitive clod?
Don’t you *realize* his older brother played on a playground that was only *states* away from NYC??
And that NS had to *walk past* that very same playground for literally *months* afterward?
You have no idea the kind of fear they went through. *None*.
GregB
Is it OK to come out from under my bed yet?
-G
Demo Woman
@Bob In Pacifica: If George Clooney is on that flight, that’s change I can believe in. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate that passengers fly without pants?
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
And now for something OT but really worth reading, another excellent Waldman piece describing how things really work on Capitol Hill and where HCR goes next ……
The piece.
All of this presupposes, of course, that no congressman tries to light his crotch on fire during conference.
Joey Maloney
@Max:
If’n I had to guess, I’d guess that Candy knows how a member of the Village elite is supposed to treat her social inferiors, and that includes the serf who does her tv makeup.
Martian Buddy
@calipgyian: I know correlation does not equal causation and all, but there seems to be a lot of overlap between the people who cringe in abject fear over every new terror attack (successful or otherwise) and the people who believe that we’re in for a world-class smiting because there’s no compulsory prayer in public school.
Violet
@ellaesther:
The clashes in Iran are now getting top billing on the CNN and NYT websites. Pretty amazing considering we ALMOST HAD A SUCCESSFUL TERRORIST ATTACK HERE IN THE US! /eyeroll
Sully’s place is doing an excellent job of gathering the raw data. I know he’s over the top with the green and all, but he does do good work on chronicling the Iran uprisings and keeping it in the public eye.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
It’s too bad you can’t make an argument that isn’t predicated on trying to make your opponent look like the devil. That’s pretty common with some other people.
Citizen_X
Eighteen people died during the last big storm. I don’t know their individual circumstances, but you can be sure some died attempting to travel. The attack of the pants-fire idiot killed precisely…no one.
I was hoping Marmel would start to feel more threatened by enraged statisticians.
But he’s a fucking coward, and I have no more patience for this kind of cowardice.
Shalimar
He’s just copying what liberals said about Bush when he was flying around randomly on 9/11, and then again when he disappeared for a few days after Katrina. It probably would have made more sense if he had saved the spiel for a tragedy where people actually died, but he most likely has been waiting for years to use the argument and spieled prematurely.
Royston Vasey
@MikeJ: Ah, just started watching this game right NOW (via PVR). Plus I’m wearing my red shirt with AIG on the front.
Come on you reds!
5mins in –> Hull 0 – 0 United
Tomlinson
Of course the whole point of terrorism is to provoke a reaction. So doing nothing would be the ideal response. It would have been much better – and more satisfying – if the only reaction had been something like:
“Also in today’s news, some incompetent bonehead tried to take down Flight XXX and managed to burn his own nuts off. And now for the weather.”
Demo Woman
IMO, Unless the President consults a high roller from Las Vegas, he will not be taken seriously.
Corner Stone
@JenJen: Your beloved Bengals gonna do it today?
You Don't Say
@valdivia: Yeah, I read that Booman post on DKos and had seen that Giordano post but had not read it. (I love how Al punctures all that self-importance.) This evolving nonsense will be fun to watch. The knots they’ll have to twist themselves into …
MikeJ
Note that Obama didn’t flee in terror, trying to get to a USAF base because he had to wait for the secret service to check under the White House bed for monsters.
bago
@NobodySpecial: Well, that’s somewhat amusing. A passive-aggressive strawman.
ellaesther
@Violet: He lets his heart take him away a little too much, I think. He sometimes forgets that he is hoping for change, rather than (necessarily) witnessing it. But this time around, he’s acknowledging that (as opposed to last summer, when he didn’t seem to, as much). Take this passage:
But I also get a sense – totally subjective and maybe my own wishful thinking – that the confidence comes from a sense that they are winning this standoff, that today has rekindled into an even stronger flame, the sense that Iran’s people remain sovereign in their own land, that they have not been intimidated, and that they know they will soon win. This feels true to me, but on the other hand, I also know what it’s like to protest in the streets of someplace and feel that you’re changing the world. It can sometimes just feel that way — especially when the other side has guns and doesn’t mind using them.
But you know what? So what. He’s doing yeoman’s labor and he’s doing it from a genuine sense of mission, and I am a-ok with that.
Royston Vasey
@Theron: I thought the Spanish were paella eating surrender monkeys?
mcd410x
I love the freakout about how once again WE WERE WARNED.
Really? How many warnings do you think various officials get in any given month, or week, or day even? I’ve got it: We can achieve full employment if we make everyone a counter-terrorist to run down every single one of those leads. And I’m not talking about the Glengarry leads either. You can’t close the leads you’re given, you can’t close shit, you are shit, hit the bricks pal, and beat it, cause you are going out.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
Nope. I refuse to play your game. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem. You’re the one building the initial strawman and not making any arguments.
You want to argue the death penalty? Or is all you got snark and feelings?
Max
No NFL Open Thread, but I’ve just got to say that thank god I picked the Falcons against the Bills because the Bills are playing a QB they just got, that I’ve never heard of because their two QB’s are hurt.
If the Bills don’t get their $hit together and get a real QB in the off-season, they are done for and might as well move to Toronto and try to win the Grey Cup.
If those whiny-ass liberals think it’s hard being a DFH, they should try being a Bills fan!
StonyPillow
With the exception of the wingnuts, America was seriously unimpressed by this exploit. It’s a symptom of terrorism in democratic societies. You have to keep upping the ante.
I strongly urge bin Laden, al-Zawahiri and all executive members of The Salafi Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight to escalate the “terror” by frying their own weewees off.
And good luck on those 72 virgins, guys. They’ll all be laughing at your charred stumps as hard as we are.
You Don't Say
Go Steelers!
Oh no. Dick Enberg.
kay
@Citizen_X:
They radically change the way they think with each new event. It must be exhausting. Did this “change everything”, again? How did their changing the way they perceive the world last time help them deal with events this time? If it didn’t, what was the point of announcing the big, dramatic world view change?
They don’t seem to be making any progress, individually. I thought we’d be further along in dealing with this emotionally. Maybe we are and he’s just a little delayed. We’ll have to see.
calipgyian
@AhabTRuler:
What do you mean “forced”?
Gwangung
Some of the ninnies should realize this attempt was a RESPONSE to anti-terrorism efforts in Yemen. They should think about that before babbling about who is “weak” on terrorism.
Corner Stone
@Max: Brohm was a college and HS absolute STUD.
How he translates to the big show I guess we’ll all see. Probably not with the Bills longer-term but I like the kid.
Brohm
aimai
Who will be the first–left or right–to corner the market on Cafe Press underwear marked
“No Explosives”
for quicker TSA screenings?
aimai
Chad N Freude
@Royston Vasey: Manchego cheese, dude.
John Cole
@srv: So I’m building straw men, but you agree these progressives exist, just not in any numbers.
So it is a straw man because neither of us know the real numbers?
srv
@MikeJ:
Obama only has to run about a mile to get to the USMC base.
And Bush didn’t flee. They actually kept him at the school for awhile, as it was then considered the only secure area. I don’t think it’s beyond reason to believe the SS did not want to return the WH until SCANTANA had been completed. They didn’t stay in AF1 probably b/c its communications capability was not as good as they thought it was and they were out of the loop.
MikeJ
Did he?
http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/353_bush_journey2050081722-9452.jpg
Chad N Freude
@aimai: A couple of years ago in an airport shoe-purification-ritual line, I remarked to a fellow passenger that it was a good thing Reid hadn’t hidden explosives in his jockstrap. They guy laughed and said that it was even better that he hadn’t hidden them in a rectal suppository.
BR
@valdivia: I’m looking forward to Al Giordano’s investigations on the various poutrage bloggers as he calls them.
Chad N Freude
@mcd410x:
That would be a Mamet undertaking.
Martian Buddy
@mcd410x: One can only imagine how many cranks the FBI hears from in any given month. The sad thing is that Marmel and his ilk would probably be just fine with waterboarding every last one of them just to be on the safe side–well, unless they’re a gun-hording right-wing militia member, of course. Those guys are totally harmless and the DHS should stop picking on them.
Royston Vasey
@Chad N Freude: mmmmm, Sheep cheese
Our Lady of Perpetual Vacation
Didn’t Dubya’s 8 year vacation start on 1/20/01?
487days at Camp David/490 Days @ Crawford Ranch
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4728085.shtml
Demo Woman
@srv: Investments companies were allowed to leverage because the Bush appointed Treasury allowed them to.
I don’t mind trolls but at least provide some facts.’
You might want to read the 9/11 commission report also.
Corner Stone
Since when did Atrios start blogging at BJ as a front pager?
bago
@NobodySpecial: My “game” is saying that anyone who is so filled with fear from an incident that didn’t actually affect them over thirty years ago really shouldn’t be making life or death decisions.
I’m not being passively aggressive, I’m just being aggressive.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
So in other words, you have no argument to make. Gotcha.
Corner Stone
@Demo Woman:
I know Cole relies on his background to invoke The Easy Label whenever he’s frustrated but that doesn’t mean all of the commenters here at BJ have to use it too.
eemom
Krugman tries again to reason with the “shit sandwich” crowd:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/26/numerical-notes-on-health-care-reform/
A brave man, he. Even if he IS a corporatist sellout paid Pharma troll Rahmbot.
srv
@John Cole: I know that this blog is filled with Real Democrats who believe all the things I listed would not have happened if it weren’t for Nader.
It’s funny how DFH’s are the ones who are unrealistic about your candidates.
Jane Hamsher maybe the end-all of the DFH’s to you because of your close relationship, but in all my convsersations with hippies in the last half-decade, Jane is referred to as that “other woman” at the site where Marcy and funny Tbogg are.
Whether an attempt to co-opt or split the right on anti-corporatism and get time on Fox makes sense or not, I really think you’re stretching it if you think Jane fantasizes about some new left-right-libertarian third party. She’s playing the game as she is won’t to do.
The first protests on the bailout were by hippies. They got to Market and Wall Streets way before the Ron Paul crowd showed up. Real Democrats, as always, were no where to be found.
Hob
Can we have a fundraiser to get a room for bago & NobodySpecial?
phoebes-in-santa fe
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage: Couldn’t have said it better myself, comrade.
Demo Woman
@Corner Stone: Touche
Midnight Marauder
@aimai:
I think the Grifter Brigade is a lot more deep on the right than on the left. Although, if the right gets to them first, they’ll probably end up saying something like “NO MOOSLIM FIRECRACKERS!”
In other news, the Houston Texans will NOT fade quietly out of the playoff hunt. Go get ’em, Andre Johnson.
Ruckus
@John Cole:
I’m always surprised there are so many really fucking stupid smart people out there.
The reason is not that they are stupid, (even though I think they really are), it’s that they are narrow minded and simple. The repukes have turned into PT Barnum’s ideal audience, a cross between the ideal sucker and the ideal 30 second spot consumer. It’s Madison Ave. at the circus. They will buy anything as long as it’s simple scary, so they don’t have to actually think of facts and possible consequences and that makes them look and and actually be stupid.
srv
@Demo Woman: Oh, yes, it’s all because of Bush. What a wonderful world you must live in.
And I’m sure Gore would have jumped up after the August PDB and done something different. Not that any of that information was really new. They’d known about hijacking airliners and flying them into “national monuments” since the Boijinka plot.
They just didn’t tell us about that part.
BTW, that’s in the commission report. You must have selectively missed it.
Midnight Marauder
@srv:
So…are you saying that she’s even more full of shit about all of her “new paradigm/beyond left-right” bullshit, because she’s just using it to bring more attention to herself and make herself more of a political player? That her current opposition isn’t grounded in any kind of principles whatsoever? Because if you are saying that, I, for one, am stunned by this revelation.
Edit: You know who else is probably stunned by this? GROVER FUCKING NORQUIST!
Corner Stone
@Demo Woman: I would’ve also accepted “Back atcha” as an alternate.
bago
@NobodySpecial:
bago
@Hob: Only if it has paper thin walls. I wouldn’t want to deprive you of the spectacle.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
I’m glad to see that you can vilify people who support the death penalty without ever revealing why you think it’s a bad thing or even debating the merits. I’m sorry you can’t argue your position. Maybe someday…
Blue Raven
OK. So Reid has explosives in his shoe, and we all start having to get our shoes screened. This guy has the same explosives sewn into his underwear. Is this terrorism or a prank pulled by a bunch of performance artists wanting to see what the TSA will do next and planning on pulling a Candid Camera/Punk’d moment once they decide it’s been funny long enough? Because truly, we’re in the theater of the absurd here.
srv
@Midnight Marauder:
When Markos started that new left-libertarian thing back in the day, people thought it was smart. I don’t recall, but I don’t remember John getting hysterical about it.
When this Jane Hamsher does it, it’s low-hanging fruit for the DFH bashers to feel superior again. Honestly, she probably knows that she can rely on the crazies because they will do what they say. They are predictable. Democrats, predictably unreliable.
New paradigms for new times.
Shell
Yes, heaven knows, up till now no one has ever given a second thought to any terrorist dangers on planes. I mean, this was the first time anything like this has happened…oh, wait….(9/11… the Shoebomber….)
Does this jerk have complete amnesia? And someone tell him to knock off the melodramatic prose.
Joey Maloney
Next step: PETN-filled catheter tubes!
Gravenstone
@Max: ex. Corner Stone
I’m sorry, but you’ll be glad to know you’re only stuck with Brohm for the remaining games of your lost ’09 season. He may have been a college phenom, but he sucked absolute eggs as a “professional”. The Packers drafted him as the back-up to Rogers a couple seasons ago, and he was almost immediately overshadowed by Matt Flynn (as in training camp immediacy). This year, Brohm was lucky to have been assigned to the freaking practice squad, that’s how little grasp of the pro game he’d shown in his 2+ years in the Packer’s system.
Midnight Marauder
@srv:
You know, I don’t honestly remember Markos starting any kind of left-libertarian thing, so I can’t comment on that. But, wow, what the fuck are you talking about with “low-hanging fruit for the DFH bashers”? I’m really not even sure what point you are trying to make about Hamsher any more. She’s an unprincipled goon who is exploiting the crazies on the left (and some on the right, I guess) in order to make herself more relevant in the political world? Or that this new initiative of hers is being royally misunderstood and savaged because people just want to feel good about themselves after doing some hippie punching? Because if it’s the latter, then sorry, but that’s complete bullshit.
The reason people (myself very much so included) keep criticizing her is that her current actions are so patently and transparently without any kind of long-term strategic vision or value; so obviously a personal grudge match against the administration because her
Hadassahfoot-stomping tantrum didn’t get her what she wanted; so grossly constructed using anti-Obama Republican framing; and so revolting with its intellectual cockslap in the form of teaming up with Grover Fucking Norquist.Again, I don’t know about the Markos thing, but I feel pretty confident in saying that the reason people probably didn’t get hysterical about Markos’ effort in comparison to Jane’s is that they are completely different from each other.
Corner Stone
@Gravenstone:
As I said, the translation to the NFL is yet TBD, truly. My only statement was he was a STUD in college at Louisville and also in HS. There can be no debate about this.
And honestly, in STL or AZ or Patriots or NYG or NYJ, any number of pass happy pro teams with a little talent in the TE/WR core, my guess is Brohm would have a very good time.
But the Packers? Fuck no. And now the Bills who play in cold weather a significant part of the season?
No.
You’re trying to say he sucks, and all facts in evidence make it clear he is not suited for these systems I agree.
I’m saying he was with no questions asked a STUD in college and HS and in the right spot/s in the NFL he could start and be productive for 6 to 8 teams.
NobodySpecial
@Midnight Marauder:
He made noises about the idea that we should start weaning libertarians out of the Republican camp by focusing on civil liberties issues and trying to wean them off the ‘no taxes’ shtick. That’s when he revealed that he was a ‘left-libertarian’.
A lot of people correctly don’t think too much of that idea.
bago
@NobodySpecial: Perhaps it’s because I wasn’t talking about the death penalty per se. Perhaps I was talking about how fear leads people to make vicious decisions. Perhaps it was about how you seemed to be primarily motivated by fear. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.
kay
@eemom:
I used to like to read Bonddad on Daily Kos because he’s so delightfully dull and plain-spoken, with all those charts, and I was actually learning something.
The comments became insane. He would write something completely non-controversial (“manufacturing is up”, with a chart) and they’d go berserk in the comments. Accuse him of all sorts of things, from heartlessness and actual malice towards the unemployed to secret collusion with “Wall Street”.
He’s an ordinary tax lawyer, I believe, if I remember his bio correctly. I don’t think he’s some big-deal “insider” and he never seemed to have any ax to grind, other than a sort of earnest informational aim.
I think they chased him off. That was a real victory. What the hell was the point of that?
srv
@Midnight Marauder: The point is John’s “leftist” blog-ex-girlfriend does nutty thing, John and BJ project this onto the entire progressivesphere.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Man, I don’t even have to try. John, here’s your next rage:
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/12/cindy_sheehan_to_put_new_camp.php
NobodySpecial
@bago:
Perhaps you didn’t actually ask any questions, like ‘is that your only reason for supporting the death penalty?’ or ‘Do you have any good data that supports your argument for the death penalty?’. Or perhaps you missed the part where I said I’d be glad to trade a moratorium on the death penalty for the absence of mandatory parole hearings for life sentences. Or perhaps you missed the part where I acknowledged that the death penalty is far from perfect.
Or perhaps you were just worried about being a clever asshole to someone you thought was a moral inferior.
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.
Anyways, I know now that you’re not a serious person.
Midnight Marauder
@srv:
Well, to be fair, there are a lot of so-called “progressives” going BATSHIT INSANE these days, so that’s kind of an anticipated result.
And if you really think what Jane Hamsher is doing right now with Grover Fucking Norquist is similar to Cindy Sheehan setting up an “anti-war camp near the Washington Monument to protest ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan,” you’re a fucking moron.
Gravenstone
@Corner Stone: Thus far, Brohm has shown himself absolutely unable to adapt to the pro game. He can’t decipher pro defenses, he can’t intuit receivers actions when they make hot reads. Tossing him into a pass centric offense is only going to make his inadequacies even more obvious. Maybe he’ll hook up with a QB coordinator and a team system that can finally get him up to speed. But thus far, he’s only regressed.
NobodySpecial
@Gravenstone:
How many snaps has he actually had?
bago
@NobodySpecial: Perhaps I shouldn’t have qualified my statements above, although it does make for a convenient segue. At no point was I discussing the death penalty, pro or con. I was in fact discussing how fear corrupts judgement, which is why I said so multiple times. Granted, this did involve me calling you a bitch, but seriously, you invoked “someone killing someone” as a rationalization for why “someone needs to kill someone”. If you can’t see the negative feedback loop in that logic, it’s hard to argue. But then again, that’s why we call each other names.
Corner Stone
@Gravenstone: I honestly can’t argue with you, and I am not.
The absolute hardest position in pro sports is the NFL QB.
Maybe he’ll never do it – I’ll stip that he’s not kicking ass on critical criterion.
Just saying I like him and he kicked ass and was enjoyable as all hell to watch in college.
But if it were possible for us to make it happen and wager on it – I’d say make him Warner’s backup in AZ and I’d put money that he can fling it in that system to those guys.
But put him in GB, or MIA, or Bills, or any other of the 15 teams and he’s going to chunk it. I’ll agree with you on that.
That’s why I said longer-term he will not be with the Bills. He may go to the CFL and Flutie it the hell up. I hope he gets a chance as I like his style.
That’s all.
Midnight Marauder
@NobodySpecial:
I mean, seriously. The dude is literally starting for the first time in the NFL this afternoon and you’re talking about how he has regressed? In his second year?! When he’s never played before?! Yikes! You are quite possibly the most vicious critic of a human being that I have ever seen, regardless of the subject matter.
srv
@Midnight Marauder:
As soon as Cindy’s protest camp starts appearing on Fox news every night, and John goes insane about it, be sure to come back and tell him that.
Corner Stone
@kay:
They absolutely chased him off. He got run the hell outta dodge for being a decent human being and sharing his take on really critical issues, in a non-controversial way as you state.
They battered his ass. To their detriment.
Midnight Marauder
@srv:
Don’t worry. I’ll be here. And I’ll make sure to send a postcard to your bridge about the whole event.
Groucho
The kid at the McDonald’s forgot my fries, so I threw the scalding-hot coffee in his face and kicked him in the balls for good measure.
I’m pretty sure he was in Al-Quada.
John Cole
@srv: Now she is going after Booman, who is now merely a “Obama supporter.”
And Jane is not going after libertarians. Grover Norquist and teabaggers are not libertarians.
Corner Stone
@NobodySpecial:
That is MY GIG and I will not relenquish it to anyone.
And please, please, please never use the phrase “serious person” in any respect except to guffaw at someone else here.
Gravenstone
@Midnight Marauder:
As you’re mis-attributing my critique to NS, I’ll field this. Brohm stuck as the 3rd string QB his first season. This year the Packers struggled with the idea of even wasting a practice squad slot on him. If that’s not regression, I’m not sure what you would consider it.
John Cole
@srv: Hunh? I’m trying to save the progressivesphere from being co-opted by clumsiness. I’m not attacking them.
Dannie22
Slightly off-topic but isn’t Kos Media a corporation? How about FDL?
NobodySpecial
@bago:
My point is that, since it’s been almost 30 years since that moment, and even at that moment of real terror in the community, I wasn’t pushing for the death penalty as a 10 year old. I’ve repeatedly had to chew over the rationales for and against, both moral and impersonal. I’m sorry I didn’t hash out my life history to make it easier for you to get that I don’t come at this as ‘eye for an eye’. I don’t think it deters anyone besides the person being killed. I know there are problems with it. But there’s lots of problems with the other side of the equation, and rather than actually, you know, talk about them, instead I got a bunch of personal insults.
So explain why your point had to go to personal insults. Because you don’t like my logic? Either come at me with better logic, or admit you got nothing.
bago
@NobodySpecial: Seriously, that was 4 perhaps’. That totally blows the cadence, unless you’re going for a 4/4 thing.
To anyone reading the above statement, I apoligize for the puns, grammar, and punctuation.
NobodySpecial
@Gravenstone:
Might be a numbers game? There have been plenty of times where people have been left uncovered or let go simply because there’s someone there who might be needed later on. Rodgers has proven pretty durable – perhaps they simply figured that carrying a third QB was unnecessary?
NobodySpecial
@bago:
4/4 being the basis of most classic rock and roll, I’ll go with that.
bago
@NobodySpecial: The negative feedback loop would be the logic that I was using. If you want to make this personal, know that I am unfortunately arguing from a position of knowledge, not one of fear and supposition.
bago
@NobodySpecial: Well, phonetically, “for a 4/4” is in fact a 3/4, hence the apology.
Midnight Marauder
@Gravenstone:
No, no. It was addressed to you. I linked to NobodySpecial’s post because it was pretty much the thesis for my response. You are fucking burying this guy like he’s JaMarcus Russell or a modern-day Ryan Leaf or something. Where he was on the Packers depth chart isn’t that big of a deal, because he was never really going to play for them barring a catastrophic injury to Aaron Rodgers; and as we’ve seen this year from Rodgers continuously getting under center with that patchwork offensive line all season, the kid can take a hit or 12.
Not knowing if they wanted to include him on the practice squad isn’t a sign of regression; isn’t a sign that management recognized that he probably wasn’t a part of the team’s long-term plans, despite being a second-round draft pick. They have their franchise QB of the future and that man is Aaron Rodgers. That’s all that is. But the way you were writing–about him not being able to read defenses and being seemingly overwhelmed by the game at the professional level–was just insane, since the kid, literally, hadn’t played in a real game until today.
Gravenstone
@NobodySpecial: The decision not to carry him on the 53 man roster was indeed a numbers decision, as I recall the media reports. The fact they grudgingly gave him a roster spot on the practice squad was likely more an organizational effort to get something from an otherwise wasted second round pick.
Who knows, he may prosper in Buffalo or points beyond, but I’m not holding my breath. The pros are littered with the bodies of all manner of “can’t miss” college studs who then proceeded to miss in manners both spectacular (*cough* Ryan Leaf *cough*) and mundane.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
You’re the one who made this personal, unless you have another post somewhere where I called you a bitch. Talk about your negative feedback loops, you expect respect after trash talking? Take your own advice.
bago
@NobodySpecial: Exactly. Perhaps I should take my own advice about negative feedback loops and perhaps turn it into an argument. That would be highly illustrative, I think.
Gravenstone
@Midnight Marauder: The man couldn’t keep up with pro level speed against second and third teamers in his pre-season games. Are you proposing he’ll do better against starters in season? To each their own.
And the sad state of affairs that was the Packers’ O-line in the early part of this season is really a non-sequitur. In his rookie season, Brohm (as noted, a second round pick) could not even beat out Flynn (a seventh rounder) for the back-up QB slot.
srv
@John Cole:
Grover has been anti-tax and small gov’t before any teabaggers where gleams in their Galtian-fathers eyes. He is a chamelion.
Many teabaggers do in fact see themselves as libertarian now. Yes, that is something they’ve co-opted somewhere after the RP movement and GW doing the bailout. The Paultards don’t see them that way, and you didn’t see RP at the 9/12 marches. If you actually knew any teabaggers, you’d know this – they see themselves as disaffected “small gov’t” Republicans with nowhere to go. They aren’t (mostly) right-wing religious nuts, they aren’t blue bloods or Reagan democracts, they’re gun-totting, college educated real muricans and GW stabbed them in the back. Grover and DeMint can speak their language, if they are in fact really agents of the Rovian party. They ARE a splinter group that will gravitate to the libertarian/constitutional parties.
If you want to know how “real” libertarians feel now, watch that Southpark episode on Goths vs. Vampires. They’ve been co-opted by the Beckian party and they’re pissed.
Bob
With any luck this Jasper Schuringa guy is gay.
Midnight Marauder
@Gravenstone:
You’re right. What am I thinking not writing off a rookie or second-year player who struggles in the preseason? IDIOT!
The point is this. For whatever reason, you are clearly sold that the Brian Brohm Experiment in the NFL is an epic failure. There are others of us who believe that the kid is only in his second year, and still has more than enough time to get things figured out and be okay.
HRA
@Max:
“Also, too. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but Tapper made a good point on “This Week” in that Bush didn’t make any statements when the Richard Reid Shoe Bomber thing occured.”
Exactly what was on my mind as I read this nitwit’s remarks.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
But again – when I experienced that, I wasn’t arguing from my moment of fear that we needed to kill Stewart. And I’ve had to actually think about my position AND come up with actual arguments as to why I feel it’s necessary. I’ve also (as I’ve had to state over and over again) said that I’m not so wedded to the idea that I can’t give it up for an alternative solution. That fear informs my decision, but it doesn’t make the whole of my argument. Notice I’m not invalidating your experience or claiming you’re wrong to think otherwise.
bago
@NobodySpecial: Fear is, by definition, a nebulous thing. The fact that you are incorporating such a variable into your decision model of something very real, very tangible, such as the life of another person is telling. That is the exact same channel that leads killing, war, torture, and mutually assured destruction.
If you apply that logic model of fear to your life you wind up doing stupid things like killing innocent people and making everyone take off their shoes on the plane. It is counterproductive.
Dr. Loveless
@Bob:
Duh. He’s European. Homosexuality is mandatory in the Soshulizt People’s Caliphate of Greater Old Europe now.
NobodySpecial
@bago:
We are not Vulcans. We don’t turn off emotion – whether positive or negative – when we formulate decisions or make actions. It’s also fairly well known that fear is a healthy and normal reaction in many instances.
Now, when it comes to killing innocents, yeah, no one likes it. But very few times is it acknowledged that there are instances when murderers get pardoned and go kill someone else. We just saw that this month. So one can argue that innocents were killed because we refused to actually keep a murderer imprisoned. So, because a decision was made that didn’t involve fear and innocents died, what do you do then?
Mike in NC
Fixed. The BJ Lexicon needs an entry for the “Hamsher-Norquist Alliance”, surely the most bizarre construct since the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact before WW2.
NobodySpecial
@Mike in NC:
Actually, I’d give that award to Starship.
Liberty60
@mk3872:
fixed
henqiguai
@NobodySpecial (#163):
Yeah, back to work tomorrow (and someone should feel my annoyance), and your fearmongering is just screaming for a random response.
I am :-|, and I routinely do. Why can’t you ? Doesn’t take too much training to (1) learn to recognize your emotional response to a problem/solution set and (2) learn how to, at minimum, compensate for it in your thinking.
Yeah – instances of imminent personal physical danger. Everything else is primitive lizard brain misdirection. Your fears are irrational and, with continual public airing, annoying. Stop it.