Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Donald Trump, welcome to your everything, everywhere, all at once.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Found liable for massive fraud, is required to post a massive bond, gets a break, then files a *fraudulent* bond!

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

It’s a doggy dog world.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

So many bastards, so little time.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

I also would like a pony to improve my balloon juice experience.

In after Baud. Damn.

Republicans would impeach Biden if he bit into a whole Kit Kat rather than breaking the sections apart.

Cole is on a roll !

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

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Reader Interactions

298Comments

  2. 2.

    beltane

    John McCain says this is a closed process, so you are not seeing what you think you are seeing on TV. In fact, there must be nothing to liveblog since it is a closed proceeding.

    John McCain loves to remind us of what a loser he is.

  3. 3.

    Sue

    I haven’t been able to watch yet, but I’m hearing Reid has already stuck his foot in his mouth. Have the Dems managed to kill the summit themselves yet?

  10. 10.

    Sentient Puddle

    I’m following it through Ezra on Twitter. A few choice tweets:

    There should be someone paid to sit in the corner all day and just yell “Oh, SNAP!” at appropriate times.

    John McCain is really proving that a McCain presidency would’ve been quite the bipartisan lovefest.

    Obama: “John, we’re not campaigning anymore. The election is over.” This is why we need the “OH, SNAP!” guy!

  11. 11.

    Midnight Marauder

    @Quackosaur:

    Cantor’s face is priceless. He knows that Obama’s tearing him apart.

    I was just about to comment on how utterly overwhelmed he looks every time the camera cuts back to him. President Obama is decimating him right now.

  13. 13.

    Ash Can

    @Sue: Reid did fine; not sure why you’re hearing that. Read the “It’s Snowing Again” thread; we were live-blogging the summit there.

  16. 16.

    Quackosaur

    Now Obama is explaining how insurance works to the Republicans, as well as legislating. If only such steps were unnecessary.

  17. 17.

    Bulworth

    Well, maybe if the Dems would agree to privatize Social Security, end Medicaid–since it only affects young bucks buying steaks on food stamps–eliminate the ability of anyone under a certain level of income to file a lawsuit, criminalize abortion, and promise to drill, drill, drill, just maybe the Republicans would agree to cutting taxes some more.

  18. 18.

    Anya

    I was not able to watch (I am working) but from the little I am seeing now I think the President is doing a great job schooling these idiots. I know they will not change their corrupt minds and they will run to the first camera at the end of the summit to complain and portray themselves as victims of Chicago politics but the American people are watching, hopefully.

  21. 21.

    Adam Collyer

    How dumb is Eric Cantor?

    “We have a difficult bridge to gap, here.”

    Uhhh….what?

    Joe Biden is incredibly irritated with these people. He was literally just jumping out of his seat trying to smack down Cantor.

  22. 22.

    freelancer

    McCain: Bitter, doddering fuckhead of a fool:

    In response to John McCain saying the Democrats are using the summit as a campaign opportunity, President Obama had some choice words: “We’re not campaigning anymore. The election’s over.”
    …
    McCain responded, “I’m reminded of that every day.”

  23. 23.

    geg6

    Sue @3: I think the Dems have been fine, if boring. The GOPers have been schooled all morning. By Obama. Who has been stellar in every way. And Cantor is too whiny and stupid for words.

  25. 25.

    Paula

    Re Cantor: no we can’t afford everything we want, except for unbudgeted tax cuts and endless war, of which we can never have enough.

  26. 26.

    MagicPanda

    Could the folks who are following along give us updates pretty please? Instead of saying

    Cantor’s face is priceless. He knows that Obama’s tearing him apart.

    could you say

    Cantor’s face is priceless. He knows that Obama’s tearing him apart on his BS assertion that XXXXXX.

    or something along those lines? I love picturing cantor getting decimated, but I’d love to know what they’re talking about. kthxbai

  27. 27.

    CADoc

    Obama and Reid fact checked them forcefully at the beginning on their talking point that the bills would raise premiums (No per the CBO) and yet they continue to repeat it.
    I’m just listening to the audio feed but you can hear the barely controlled exasperation in Obama’s voice. This is where his recent experience raising and disciplining young children comes in handy. Dealing with children, obtuse people and Republicans takes infinite patience. And many people in that room are all 3.

  28. 28.

    dmsilev

    The smackdown of John McCain was one for the ages.

    Obama: Yes, John, I beat your ass. You’ll spend the rest of your life gnawing on your own liver about that. Enjoy.

    -dms

  30. 30.

    Mr Furious

    Missed opportunity there by Obama to just shut Canto the hell up on costs…

    THIS BILL DRIVES COSTS DOWN AND HAS BEEN ANALYZED AND SCORED TO DO SO.

    “WE CAN’T AFFORD THIS, CANTOR? WE CAN’T AFFORD NOT TO.“

  31. 31.

    Citizen_X

    waaaahh waaahhh you didn’t tell us the TIME

    Cantor’s ad nauseum hand-on-the-bill point was But but but 2400 PAGES!

  32. 32.

    Quackosaur

    Slaughter (D-NY): Can’t we just be human beings? Never mind that private healthcare makes us less competitive internationally.

  33. 33.

    Bad Horse's Filly

    Since it’s an open thread, I’ll share this: I had the most vivid dream and you and you and you were there.

    Okay this was just disturbing. I dreamt that John threw a Balloon-Juice party at his house. A large ranch house, with a full basement, btw, where he and his four brothers lived. It appeared John was supporting them all. The house looked like you would expect a house to look with 5 brothers living there – in desperate need of a housekeeper. No naked housecleaning here. The basement was done up for gaming.

    Lily was there – though her shape was a bit more reminiscent of Tunch’s, causing one party-goer to snark, “what do you feed your animals John, pure lard?” There was also a beautiful shepherd mix named Ginger who had the most remarkable markings I’d ever seen on a dog. Four cats were also in residence, none of them Tunch*.

    DougJ was there, making it known to everyone that he grew and rolled his own and everyone should partake.

    asiangrrlMN was there and proudly told us she’d dyed her hair blonde for the occasion. She seemed to be the queen bee of the party.

    Tattoosydney was there showing off his wedding ring and bragging on his hubby.

    LauraW was busy buzzing around everyone, making sure they were doing okay.

    Anne Laurie held court on the couch, everyone interested in what she had to say.

    John, bless his heart, did not disappoint and had two unprovoked rants (one seemed aimed directly at me, I was so proud).

    General Stuck was there, too, though I don’t remember much about what he was up to.

    For those of you didn’t make the dream, John had an explanation: party turnout was low due to bad weather.

    The weirdest part of all this is that I’m not someone who dreams and when I do, I rarely remember details. I remember this dream from start to finish. So if you will excuse me I’m going to go talk to my doctor about that MRI now. Cheers!

    *Tunch: I only show up in dreams for a hefty appearance fee. Talk to my agent.

  35. 35.

    Midnight Marauder

    @Adam Collyer:

    Joe Biden is incredibly irritated with these people. He was literally just jumping out of his seat trying to smack down Cantor.

    To say the least. Obama had to quite forcibly jump in (rhetorically, of course) and steer the meeting away from Biden, who is more than ready to punch a motherfucker in the face today.

  36. 36.

    dmsilev

    You’d think that the House and Senate would come up with some procedure for voting without actually having to be in the chamber, rather than having to shut something like this down, shuttle everyone over to the Hill, and then right back.

    -dms

  40. 40.

    cat48

    Instead of loud rock music played for al Qaeda as torture, I would go with Congress debating………

  41. 41.

    Corner Stone

    Coburn’s telling Sebelius about his most recent bowel movement, complete with hand gestures –
    Dammit Kathy! I tell you it took up *this much* of the bowl!
    And before I flushed her down it told me to “Keep on keepin’ on!”

  43. 43.

    ALL_CAPS_FOR_CHRIST

    ITS OK IN THE BIBLE TO EXULT OVER YOUR FALLEN FOE, TURN THEM INTO YOUR OWN SLAVE, WHATEVER YOU WANT. WHY HAS OBAMA NOT DONE THIS TO MCCAIN? IS IT BECAUSE MCCAIN IS PHYSICALLY USELESS AND CANT LIFT HIS ARMS OVER HIS SHOULDERS, OR IS OBAMA SO MUCH THE RACIST THAT HE DOESNT WANT A WHITE MAN EVEN AS A SERVANT?

  44. 44.

    Corner Stone

    What kills me is that all these people live like kings.
    They are all going to retire to private dining rooms, be served by people, and eat something most of us save up months to treat ourselves to.
    They don’t give a shit.

  45. 45.

    demo woman

    I missed the Lamar smack down. I assume that I can find it later on CSpan but I need to know approximately what time it was.

  46. 46.

    Rick Taylor

    I saw the Republican opening statement. The guy was trying to give the impression that Republicans recognize there’s a problem and want to do something about it, but object to comprehensive approach and want to proceed piecemeal. I have no idea if that will fool anyone. They’re base of course doesn’t want any reform, piecemeal or otherwise, so I assume they’re trying to placate their base without turning away independents. I’m assuming that the administrations strategy is to make it painfully clear the Republican party has no plan for fixing the problems in health care except for a few ideas which have been incorporated in the current bill already.

  48. 48.

    Sentient Puddle

    Any word on how long they’ll break for? I sit down with my lunch, put on my headphones, fire up YouTube, and get ready for some wonkery…only to see a title card saying that the meeting will resume shortly. Bah.

  51. 51.

    Sasha

    Now Obama is explaining how insurance works to the Republicans, as well as legislating. If only such steps were unnecessary.

    Actually, it helps immensely for any citizen who is unfamiliar with either understand. And with Obama defining it, John Q. Public can now see how the GOP is not getting it.

    Loves me my MUP.

  53. 53.

    bcinaz

    two things we know about HCR. 1) Americans do not seem to know what is in the actual bill unless some pollster tells them what’s in the bill and then asks approve/disapprove questions. 2) Republicans don’t care what’s in the bill because they don’t plan on voting for it anyway.

    The idea behind todays Theater of the Absurd is to demonstrate one more time to the American People that President Obama is and has been reaching out and that there is no way to reason with or compromise with a Republican.

  57. 57.

    Corner Stone

    @robertdsc:

    These GOP animals are killing their own constituents

    Much like our recent semantic debate over the term “hippie”, your statement depends on how one defines “constituent”.

  59. 59.

    slag

    @Ash: OK. That made me happy. I had abandoned this thing as soon as McCain started bitching about CSpan. But that response from Obama might have been worth the wait.

  60. 60.

    licensed to kill time

    I just watched the McCain Smackdown – Epic! Obama looks like he is just.holding.it.in. like you do with a particularly obnoxious know it all teenager to whom you are dying to say “STFU you stupid little twerp! ” but you refrain because you don’t want to crush them too badly, seeing as how you are the grownup and all.

    The livefeed seems to be borking the site…it’s loading like an old geezer.

    (ETA – of course as soon as I said that and hit submit it loaded like a champ. sigh.)

  66. 66.

    Zifnab

    I want to say that this will give the White House the necessary PR and political capital to finally push the bill through reconciliation, but we all know the Sunday Morning Disc Jockeys will have the same old songs playing. *sigh*

    Maybe filling a room full of obnoxious, obstructionist Republicans is what it takes to whip those last Democratic votes into line. Personally, I’ve had my fill of whining GOP gimps bemoaning the failure of the government to function after they spent the last eight years wrecking the joint.

    At the very least, this will satisfy some of the more intellectually honest Broderites and independent moderates that care more about compromise process than product. But at the end of the day, I don’t know how Obama plans to get a GOoPer to break ranks. This all seems like a six hour kabuki.

  68. 68.

    Quackosaur

    @Sasha:

    True. I’m always amazed how much Americans don’t know about our government. It must be with how it’s taught (or not taught). I remember having to do a constitution test (state and federal) in 8th grade (I think) about ten years ago. I’m sure it’s just another effect of NCLB and conservative take-over of local school boards; though you’d think conservatives, being supposed “strict-constructionists” and all, would value instruction in the US Constitution.

  69. 69.

    gypsy howell

    I sure wish someone would take the republicans whine “we can’t affooooooooooord health care reform” to its logical conclusion.

    So what are you saying, Senator? That here in the United States of We’re Number MotherFuckin’ One America, we’re just going to accept the idea that thousands of Americans die every year because they don’t have access to health care? Is that what you’re saying? ‘Cause that seems to be where your statement leaves us.

    I really really don’t want to hear about whether we can affoooooooord this, from either party.

  70. 70.

    Adam Collyer

    MSNBC’s interview with Senator Barrasso:

    “Senator, do you think this was more political theater or was there some actual, substantive discussion going on?”

    “Well, Andrea, there was some discussion, I wish there could be more. The President is intent on countering other people’s points, then giving Democrats more time to talk, so it seems as if it’s a bit of political theater.”

    With all due respect, Senator, I don’t think “political theater” means what you think it means.

  71. 71.

    SIA

    @beltane: McCain was really awful. Bitter, bitter, bitter.

    And Mike “The Mole” Pence is blathering on to Andrea Mitchell about how mean the dems are being, especially to poor old McCain. I don’t know how Obama keeps from throwing the water pitcher at them.

    Wankers.

  72. 72.

    slag

    Am I the only one who wishes the other Democrats would go away so I could watch Obama take each Republican on one-by-one?

    Although that Democrat from NJ was pretty good.

  73. 73.

    Waynski

    @MagicPanda — I’ll probably miss some things, but essentially Cantor was saying the Republicans have a philosophical objection to regulation and complained about the costs. Obama pointed out that the Repubs already support certain regulation for the public good (he used the FDA as an example), can’t remember how he addressed the cost objection, other than saying it was a legitimate concern. Cantor whined again about philosophical differences. Enter an exasperated Joe Biden for a second Cantor smackdown. Joe pointed out that if you’re going to do something about healthcare it’s necessarily going to involve regulation and then said you’re either in or you’re out. I didn’t watch the whole thing but Obama seemed generally pretty good at calling them on playing politics, which he asked them not to do from the git go. Then they did it anyway, big effing surprise.

  74. 74.

    mr. whipple

    Actually, it helps immensely for any citizen who is unfamiliar with either understand. And with Obama defining it, John Q. Public can now see how the GOP is not getting it.

    The sad thing is that John Q is at work, and even if they were home they’d probably have to have an expensive cable package to watch this.

    So, what they learn about this will be from poorly written newspaper articles, or articles written with an agenda. In other words, bullshit. Or the network news, which will be at best fair and balanced, he said, she said. If people had accurate information presented to them, the approval rating for HCR would already be much higher.

  76. 76.

    Mikeg

    I know this has been said in different ways, by different people, etc, etc. But really: Can anyone imagine George Bush (or even John McCain) mediating this event with the same kind of command-of-facts and overall knowledge that Pres Obama exhibits? Where’s his telepromter, morans?

  78. 78.

    Mike Kay

    goopers really, really, screwed up. they shouldna let McSame into the room.

    Now, that’s the lead story: McSame going down in flames.

  80. 80.

    Linda Featheringill

    So much nonsense, so little public service. Sigh.

    By the way, it is snowing in Cleveland again, too. Supposed to dump a significant amount on us today and tomorrow. And I still have an angry patellar tendon from the last bout of ice and snow.

    Sigh, again. Bad weather, bad government, what the hell.

  81. 81.

    Sasha

    @mr. whipple:

    The sad thing is that John Q is at work, and even if they were home they’d probably have to have an expensive cable package to watch this.

    C-Span is basic cable so no, and anyone who can access the internet (expect Obama’s explanations to go YouTube) can watch unfiltered.

  82. 82.

    Paula

    It’s really nice that McCain gives Obama every opportunity to remind everyone how badly grandpa lost the election.

  83. 83.

    Quackosaur

    @Mikeg:

    It wouldn’t be a problem because McCain or Bush would not appear so divisive. Congress would patriotically accept what they would say as divine law from God handed down by the rightful Commander-in-Chief. To oppose either one would be both treason and blasphemy. It’s only because of Obama and his evil, godless, soshulistic theft of the Oval Office from a TRUE AMERICAN that Congress has been forced to oppose him.

  85. 85.

    clone12

    On the other hand, given the prospect of a hottter planet, that “room temperature” remark is not as much of a putdown as it was 30 years ago…..

  86. 86.

    DS

    John says:

    If it is not obvious to anyone with an iq over room temperature that the Republicans want to do nothing but kill any bill, I’m not sure what more it is going to take.

    And on that note, this from McArdle:

    The problem is, Republicans also get to reiterate their complaints–and the polls seem to indicate that their complaints have resonated with the American public. When they complain about things like the Cornhusker kickback, Obama is in the hard position of either denigrating Democrats in Congress, defending the indefensible, or ignoring the complaint. That doesn't make him look good.

    I think that pretty much sums it up right there. I’m done for the day.

  89. 89.

    dmsilev

    Re: the question at the top of the post, I’m sure it won’t convince most of the media commentariat. Most of them aren’t stupid per se, just incredibly blinkered.

    -dms

  90. 90.

    mr. whipple

    C-Span is basic cable so no, and anyone who can access the internet (expect Obama’s explanations to go YouTube) can watch unfiltered.

    It wasn’t for me.

  92. 92.

    dougie

    This whole summit has been fascinating. I’ve got a renewed Oboner.

    Did they really think it would work out in their favor to go in there with talking points and dramatically thick stacks of the pages of the bill? (By the way, they are wasting our tax money on printing. At least duplex that shit with two pages per side.)

  94. 94.

    El Cid

    C-Span caller, on Republican line: This meeting is a joke because Obama brought a bill to the table! He should have trashed every bill they’ve done!

  95. 95.

    Sentient Puddle

    @DS: Megan clearly forgot one possibility. When they complain about stuff like the Cornhusker Kickback, Obama is in the hard position of not standing up, yelling “Or you could FUCKING READ MY PROPOSAL AND STOP MAKING SHIT UP,” and smacking them upside the head.

  99. 99.

    frankdawg

    John:
    “I’m not sure what more it is going to take.”

    It would take the Ds to find a pair. Use the party’s power. You want DSCC money & support? Get on board. You want to retain your chairmanship? Get on board. Show them the numbers from their own damn states showing the people against this won’t vote for them and there are more people that want it than don’t.

    Twist arms! A lot of the tough calls in the past were made because guys like LBJ threatened weak-kneed Ds to do the right thing (and Sam Rayburn before him)

    But it seems the party is afraid they might miss out on the big bucks the oligarchs dump on them. And/or they are afraid that the 20% of voters that hate their guts & hope they die will maybe not vote for them. And nobody ever one an election by appealing to the 80%, they have to toss off the 80% to gain that all important 20%.

  100. 100.

    Quackosaur

    @El Cid:

    Was that the one from Colorado Springs? I liked the supposed Republican who complained that Republicans weren’t putting Country First.

    @dougie:

    It’s not government waste if you’re fighting soshulist take-over of government.

  101. 101.

    mr. whipple

    I can’t listen to cspan callers. The ensuing depression from The Stupid makes me want to move to an island.

  102. 102.

    Anton Sirius

    @JenJen:

    I’ve been trying to watch CNN’s coverage, but every time they cut to the studio and Wolf Blitzer asks John King who’s winning and what the score is, I want to punch him in the throat.

    By the way, does anyone happen to have a video clip of Roland Martin metaphorically punching Blitzer in the throat when he tells him nobody gives a shit what the score is, they just want to see some damn results?

  103. 103.

    El Cid

    Ha ha! John Kline said “We don’t hear too many complaints from patients on big company health care plans.” Democrat — “We do.”

  104. 104.

    JohnR

    @Quackosaur:

    “..you’d think conservatives, being supposed “strict-constructionists” and all, would value instruction in the US Constitution.”

    No. Just as with the Bible, the instruction must only focus on the Approved and Correct Interpretations of the Holy Document. You give the kids too much information, they get all uppity and backsass you.

    As for John’s question at the top, it’s not IQ that matters. It’s the “none so blind” factor that counts. Once you are determined to Believe, then everything you see supports that belief. Anything which might contradict your belief is either not seen at all or is somehow transmogrified into what you already Know it must be. Ex: pretty much every remaining Republican voter will not see what youall here see. Instead, they will see a Rude, Lying, Socialist Black Man Sassing His Elders And Betters to their faces. Why back in my day, we didn’t tolerate that sort of thing! You know what’s funny? My mother, who spent most of her life as a confirmed FDR Democrat, has become a Hannity Republican after living in FoxNews-land for only 20 years. I, the confirmed conservative among the children, am now derided as a wild-eyed leftie, even as my siblings have shifted farther and farther to the left. Sounds like a good lyric: “Everybody’s so different, I haven’t changed.” Perhaps I should take up songwriting.

  105. 105.

    El Cid

    GOP: WASHINGTON! MANDATE! BYUROKRAT! TORT REFORM! TAX CREDITS! SMALL BIDNESS! FREEDOM! COMPETE ACROSS STATE LINES! NO STANDARDIZATION! INDIVIDUALS! WASTE! FRAUD!

  106. 106.

    Ash Can

    I loved it when Obama called on Cantor, and even before Cantor started speaking, Obama pointed at the books Cantor had piled up in front of him and said, “Now, let me guess. That’s all 2,004 pages of the health care reform bill, right?” SMACK! “Ow! Mo-o-o-om, he hit me. Again!”

  109. 109.

    Corner Stone

    @mr. whipple:

    So, what they learn about this will be from poorly written newspaper articles, or articles written with an agenda. In other words, bullshit.

    What I think will be the easier takeaway for a lot of busy people are the headlines – which unsurprisingly so far are F’ng brutal.
    One on Yahoo so far – Obama Summit – GOP “We have better ideas”

    I kid you not. That is the working headline.

  110. 110.

    JenJen

    @Ash Can: Not only did he preempt Cantor’s attempt to introduce props into an otherwise serious discussion, after Cantor’s remarks, he said, in reference to the prop bill, “I point this out because these are the political things we do that prevent us from having an actual conversation.”

    Cantor sounded a tad whiny in his next response, and I applaud the President for taking down this kind of crap and getting it out of the way early.

  111. 111.

    Corner Stone

    @JenJen: Predictably, Cantor continued as if Obama had said nothing at all.
    I like Obama’s handling of it but Cantor is just the worst person.

  113. 113.

    Corner Stone

    These guys are all buddies. That’s why no one wanted the C-Span cameras there. Neither side wanted their people to see how absolutely friendly they all are with each other in real life.

  114. 114.

    Johnny B

    @mr. whipple:

    OMG, you’re speaking my language. I stopped listening to any call in shows to C-SPAN a long, long time ago. I found them so depressing. While the callers were authentic, in ways that right wing radio callers aren’t, they were so wildly stupid. So stupid that you couldn’t even find it funny.

  115. 115.

    ksmiami

    What I don’t get is if the govt is so bad, so broken, so evil, then why do Republicans spend so much effort trying to run it??? Oh yeah, power and graft and killing darkies. A-holes, every single ONE

  116. 116.

    LGRooney

    Off topic but I am waiting for the right-wing freak out. The anti-Christ is apparently Norwegian. Their medal count? 6 gold, 6 silver, 6 bronze. Could it be any clearer?

    Robert Plant’s voice in my head, “I come from the land of the ice and snow…”

  117. 117.

    Sentient Puddle

    By my watch it is well past 1:45 EST, and I do not hear any wonkery coming out of my headphones. Where is my wonkery?

  119. 119.

    inkadu

    @Anton Sirius: So what’s the channel run down? I want as much unfiltered as possible. CSPAN is running something from the House of Reps. MSNBC has tweety bloviating per usual…

    Also, Yahoo headline this hour:

    Digraced snowboarder speaks out
    Lago addresses controversy
    Speedskater misses race
    Death spotlights controversy
    What an ‘Idol’ is worth.

    No worry about the media distorting a story if it doesn’t exist.

  120. 120.

    AaronLaperle

    wow…someone calling in on the C-span Republican line just started complaining about Politico and their reporting, siting Rachel Maddow on the size of Obama’s bill.

    then again, could be a D calling on the R line.

  122. 122.

    ALL_CAPS_FOR_CHRIST

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: LEVITICUS 21:18

    For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, or a man that is broken-footed, or broken-handed, or crookbacked, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

    THE LORD HATH SPOKEN. JOHN MCCAIN IS UNFIT EVEN TO BE A SLAVE. SO SAITH THE LORD.

  123. 123.

    Joey Maloney

    Well, this has been interesting but it’s getting late over here and I’ve been invited to watch something much more absorbing, coherent and intelligent:

    The 2005 musical version of Reefer Madness.

  124. 124.

    ellaesther

    My good husband just informed me that Digby informed him that if you watch the proceedings via the Sunshine Foundation’s site, as each person speaks, it shows just who their donors are.

    As the participants are off playing hopscotch right now, or whatever, I can neither confirm or deny, or in fact tell you what it looks like, but I thought y’all would want to know!

    Ah, the internet. A force for good!

    Digby (scroll down to “Livestream Of The Summit”)

    Sunshine Foundation

  127. 127.

    kay

    “And we’re starting to focus on what the real disagreements are. If you look at the issue of how much government should be involved, the argument that the Republicans are making really isn’t that this is a government takeover of health care but rather that we’re ensuring the — we’re regulating the insurance market too much. And that’s a legitimate philosophical disagreement. We’ll hopefully be able to explore it a little more in the afternoon.”

    Obama says the Republican position is that Democrats are regulating insurance too much :)

  129. 129.

    MNPundit

    @Dennis G.:

    We’ll see a well run meeting where issues are explored, voices are heard, assumptions are challenged, consensus made where possible and a way forward at the end. It will be a way forward that not everybody will agree with, but it will be clear how that became the chosen way forward from the majority of those at the meeting.

    BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    The way forward is this: we ram the bill down GOP throats with reconciliation and hope they choke and die on it and stick the public option in there to make it burn on the way in and out. Making it burn like fire for the GOP is the way it should always have been.

  131. 131.

    cat48

    This whole HCR debate has been Hell on the Dems………just thinking though, that O could have bully pupited everyday, but it would not have been as effective as this…..they are live in person & the Repugs are just using the same old tired talking points……it is very effective to see them rebutted immediately……

    I really liked Dr. No’s idea for fraud “undercover patients”……and O just goes there too…….might be something we can work in the bill……liked it because never knew it was done before today……a job this unhealthy bod could do

  132. 132.

    fraught

    First story on all the networks tonight:
    “Obama testily throws ailing McCain under moving bus.
    We examine the drama inside Blair House.”

    I heard that Obama just cancelled McC’s Medicare.

  133. 133.

    Sasha

    Obama:

    “I think we’re establishing that there are actually some areas of real agreement. And we’re starting to focus on what the real disagreements are. If you look at the issue of how much government should be involved, the argument that the Republicans are making really isn’t that this is a government takeover of health care — but rather that we’re ensuring the — we’re regulating the insurance market too much. And that’s a legitimate philosophical disagreement. We’ll hopefully be able to explore it a little more in the afternoon.”

    Now that’s how you reframe an issue.

  136. 136.

    Corner Stone

    Did someone slip LSD into my iced tea at lunch?
    Why does Enzi sound almost reasonable so far?

  138. 138.

    JGabriel

    Ooh, Mike Enzi complains that he’s not getting as many bill-signing pens from Obama as he got from Bush!

    Elections have consequences, asshole.

    .

  139. 139.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @mr. whipple:

    The sad thing is that John Q is at work, and even if they were home they’d probably have to have an expensive cable package to watch this.
     
    So, what they learn about this will be from poorly written newspaper articles, or articles written with an agenda. In other words, bullshit. Or the network news, which will be at best fair and balanced, he said, she said. If people had accurate information presented to them, the approval rating for HCR would already be much higher.

    I said something similar on last nights thread ( here ) after the thread had gone cold. Obma (and pretty much anybody else who is good at talking policy) are at their best when our news media are not in the room, i.e. the speaker can talk more or less directly to the American people without the punditariat filtering everything.

    At this point our broken news media are the single largest and most serious threat to American peace and prosperity, full stop. There isn’t much we couldn’t fix or solve if our media would just go DIAF.

  144. 144.

    Davis X. Machina

    I’ve been trying to watch CNN’s coverage, but every time they cut to the studio and Wolf Blitzer asks John King who’s winning and what the score is, I want to punch him in the throat.

    If CNN ever broadcasts a production of Hamlet, there’ll be a crawl at the bottom with a constantly-updated body count.

    Just like the P.D.Q. Bach album with a play-by-play guy (and color commentator) doing the first movement of Beethoven’s Fifth.

  146. 146.

    SIA

    @frankdawg: I returned the DCCC fundraising letter with a note “pass healthcare – then I’ll contribute again” scrawled across it. The fun part was using their prepaid envelope to send it to them. Heh.

  149. 149.

    inkadu

    Wow. Next time I apply for insurance I should say my middle name is ‘Enzi.’ Then I won’t get rejected for pre-existing conditions. Ass.

    And if young people can get health savings account and not pay into the insurance pool, that would solve the problems for the young people, and those who don’t want to deal with insurance problems just stay young forever.

    It still astounds me how fucking stupid Republicans are. I’m looking forward to reviewing this thing on youtube… bummed I missed the epic smackdown.

    Notice, though, how politics are becoming unmoored from reason. I’m getting that sinking feeling that I got after Kerry’s loss. Three debates won resoundingly, but not enough to win the election against a moron.

  151. 151.

    Zuzu's Petals

    Wha …. ?

    MSNBC is showing women’s hockey. Am having to watch the afternoon session of the summit on FNC.

  153. 153.

    JD Rhoades

    @SIA:

    And Mike “The Mole” Pence is blathering on to Andrea Mitchell about how mean the dems are being, especially to poor old McCain.

    Has anyone called Obama “disrespectful” (i.e. “uppity”) yet?

    If not, just give it time.

  156. 156.

    Ash Can

    I’m liking Harkin here: Whattya mean, start over? We’ve had a year’s worth of meetings, committees, debate. The bill incorporates a bunch of stuff the Republicans want. WTF more can we do? The incremental approach doesn’t work. And Massachusetts’ system does. Bite me.

    ETA: I thought Enzi sounded pretty reasonable for a Repcn too.

  159. 159.

    Zuzu's Petals

    @inkadu:

    I was just about to say I couldn’t take the CNN commentary, and then some blonde FNC babe cut in and started blathering.

    Argggghhhh….

  162. 162.

    Sentient Puddle

    “Unelected” Secretary of Health and Human Services? Dude, you guys fucking confirmed her.

  163. 163.

    SIA

    @JD Rhoades: You know, they have – Matthews, Mitchell and Kelly O’Donnell spoke for a few minutes about how they all had to call him Mr President, but he called them by their first name. ZOMG.

    I find it difficult to take Ms O’Donnell seriously – I have a very clear memory of her deplaning with McCain and Lieberman during the campaign and giving them both a big hug. I sense a McCain bias to her comments today.

    So yes. Yes, our president is uppity, according to the liberal media.

  169. 169.

    Sentient Puddle

    Slightly off topic, but I’m easily distracted…do the mics have red lights on them that indicate that it’s on, or something?

  170. 170.

    Corner Stone

    I always wonder what that little hand gesture means to Obama. The one where he turns his hand sideways and holds his index finger out almost like a measurement of something?
    He uses it all the time and not always when he’s trying to simulate a gap or measurement of something he’s talking about.

  172. 172.

    Zuzu's Petals

    @SIA:

    You know, they have – Matthews, Mitchell and Kelly O’Donnell spoke for a few minutes about how they all had to call him Mr President, but he called them by their first name. ZOMG.

    And GWB calling ’em all Stretch, Jocko, or Buddy Boy would just be endearing.

  173. 173.

    inkadu

    @licensed to kill time: Order now and get a dildo. But that’s not all, if you call now and say the password, “Enzi is a shoe sniffer,” we will send you an extra dildo absolutely free! That’s a $40 value absolutely free.

    @Zuzu’s Petals: Hm. BLonde babes? Maybe I can screen-in-a-screen with fox. Some women are better seen and not heard.

  174. 174.

    Corner Stone

    @Sentient Puddle: Your question intrigues me because in my line of work whenever I see something like this come together I always default to the logistics of a thing happening.
    So I’ve been watching the little things like the red light band turning on and wondering about how they have the back end setup.
    To answer your question – everyone is turned off but the lighted red light band. That one is live.

  175. 175.

    Ash Can

    Yay, Jay Rockefeller: Insurance companies look for excuses to drop people from coverage. It’s just the way they operate.

    Bingo. For-profit companies are designed to, surprise surprise, turn a profit. It’s about time someone highlighted this.

  177. 177.

    Zuzu's Petals

    @inkadu:

    Well now it’s a redhead and some bald guy. I refuse to learn their names.

    Oh wait, that was the Fox business channel. Back to FNC and the blonde lady, I guess. Or CNN.

  179. 179.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Corner Stone: Ah, and now that makes me realize why, at the beginning of the afternoon session, I didn’t hear Rangel, who was apparently saying something to Obama.

  181. 181.

    Corner Stone

    The 80% to 85% spent on health care is a farce and has so many loopholes it’s not even worth bothering.
    As long as they are “for profit” then that will be their focus. Not care.

  182. 182.

    MagicPanda

    Is it just me, or does Jay Rockefeller not actually have a point? (He’s rambling about how bad insurance companies are. we know that, right?)

  183. 183.

    Sentient Puddle

    Ezra tweet:

    The exchanges offer much, much more direct competition between insurers than letting insurers sell across state lines. It’s not even close.

    Shorter: Shut up, Marsha Blackburn.

  184. 184.

    Zuzu's Petals

    Okay, the blonde woman (Megan?) just said the townhall screamers knew more about the bill than the Senators. Anything on CNN has gotta be better than this.

  185. 185.

    kay

    @The Raven:

    Sure, if you want to give credibility to the deregulators. Why, think of it! The market can do it all!

    Obama wants to “explore” why Republicans don’t want to regulate insurance companies. That’s why he framed their argument that way. Because that’s the point he’d prefer to argue.

    He’s pro-regulation, and he wants them to defend insurance companies.

  188. 188.

    Midnight Marauder

    @inkadu:

    Cable TV: A medium designed to save CPU processing time.

    Quite true. Although for those of us on the job, working like sheelple for The Man, it’s a worthy substitute.

    And Marsha Blackburn is most likely about to be eaten alive after her inane spiel about…certain elements of HCR not being implemented until 2016? That seems like an odd approach.

  191. 191.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Joey Maloney:

    Well, this has been interesting but it’s getting late over here and I’ve been invited to watch something much more absorbing, coherent and intelligent:
    The 2005 musical version of Reefer Madness.

    It’s awesome, great musical numbers, Kristen Bell in a dominatrix outfit and a red-hot dance routine between Neve Campbell and Steven Weber (the guy from Wings).

  193. 193.

    inkadu

    Ok. You win. CNN has three assholes talking, even though it’s tabbed as “The Health Care Summit,” and not, “Three Assholes with hosted by Wolf Blitzer.”

  195. 195.

    Sentient Puddle

    Blackburn trying to draw that distinction (letting insurance companies in to other states vs. letting people out of their states) is very telling. It clearly favors insurance companies racing to the bottom in terms of regulation.

    Obama was right to push back on it, asking what the difference was. Small but important difference.

  200. 200.

    Mike Kay

    @inkadu:

    and that is the news. goopers have been saying the process is horrible, and gullible indies have bought into it. But when they see it for themselves, they say, hey “what’s the big deal, it’s not as scary as the gop says”. I mean, why do you think the gop didn’t want the summit and had to be dragged kicking and screamin to the table — because it exposes the emptiness of their boogie man.

  206. 206.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @jenniebee:

    Boehner looks bored. I think he’s texting.

    [actual text]:
    HALP!
    IM TRAPD IN RUM W ANGREE BLK MAN
    SEND MOAR TALKN POINTZ PLEZ

  209. 209.

    Midnight Marauder

    “What has been placed in front of them [the CBO] is a bill full of gimmicks and smoke and mirrors.” — Rep. Paul Ryan.

    President Obama does not looked pleased with this tomfuckery.

  210. 210.

    Sentient Puddle

    …and Ryan makes me want to tune out again. “This bill will not reduce costs.” Why? Because shut up.

    I take it I missed a lot of this kind of crap in the morning.

  211. 211.

    Osprey

    @Mike Kay:
    Tanning bed? I think he has a bathtub full of bronzer that he jumps into every couple of days. Either that or he pays a couple of migrant workers a few dollars to color his face in with magic markers. Crayola calls the color ‘bear shit in the springtime’.

  213. 213.

    inkadu

    @Mike Kay: Independents are just lazy bastards looking for any convenient excuse to make a snap decision. We’ll see if this moves the needle.

  215. 215.

    kay

    Cantor: “we all read letters by constituents who are allegedly wronged by our health care system”

    That is a really, really bad way to put it.

    He takes those pesky constituent letters with a real grain of salt, that Cantor. Can’t fool him.

  216. 216.

    MagicPanda

    I presume that Ryan is not being 100% straight here, but he’s doing a good job of flinging around words that sound like he knows what he’s talking about. I’m sure this is playing well with people on the GOP side. Let’s hope Obama can smack this down.

  217. 217.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Mike Kay:

    Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical (obligatory Amazon link whorage because I’m a stockholder and John needs money to feed Tunch and pay the the highly trained BJ staff). Oh, and not only do you have Kristen Bell in a dominatrix outfit, the incredibly hot Neve Campbell/Steven Weber dance number and all the other great musical numbers but you also have Alan Cumming as the smarmy, government anti-drug lecturer delivering lines like this:

    Do your children enjoy jazz music? For I am here to tell you that Cab Calloway, Dizzy Gillespie, Duke Ellington, and the whole weed-blowing ginger-colored lot are merely masquerading as musicians and are, in fact, agents of evil. Reefer slows down the smoker’s sense of time, allowing him to squeeze in unnecessary grace notes, giving this voodoo music the power to hypnotize white women into indulging in acts of unspeakable degradation.

  218. 218.

    jenniebee

    CNN Broadcasts all of Ryans BS and then cuts away on Obama’s response.

    You stay classy, CNN.

  219. 219.

    Tonal Crow

    @Sentient Puddle: Blackburn’s “let them out” rhetoric is truly excellent. But, of course, it masks the race to the bottom, in which fly-by-night “insurers” will sell cut-rate but loophole-ridden “insurance” nationwide. When you buy it, it’ll seem like a good deal. When you need it, the insurance bureaucrats’ll point to the fine print that says why they’re not going to pay for your cancer treatment.

    Too neither Obama nor any other Democrat said that.

  220. 220.

    Throwin Stones

    Makes me sad that Paul Ryan and I share an alma mater.
    “don’t want government to run this, we want people to run this” What does this mean? Doesn’t the government represent the people more than corporations do?

  221. 221.

    Sentient Puddle

    @MagicPanda: Eh, I’d disagree with him sounding like he knew what he was talking about. He was flinging around crap like “start over,” “government takeover,” and the usual.

    I suppose the problem is, we know this rhetoric is shit. But the way the media lets it go unchallenged, he may end up coming across a winner.

  222. 222.

    Tonal Crow

    @SIA:

    Marsha “Mosquitah” Blackburn – the most irritating voice in human history.

    Sadly, no. Palin tops her by a moosehead. Or three. Too.

  223. 223.

    Midnight Marauder

    Oh god, here comes President McCain riding in to save the good people of Florida from any cuts to Medicare Advantage.

    “Help us, Obi-wan McCain! You’re our only hope!”

  226. 226.

    Ash Can

    OT: fight breaks out in Finland-Sweden women’s hockey game. Minor stuff — push, shove, glove-in-the-face, quick swing — but makes me LOL. Finland and Sweden just do not like each other.

  227. 227.

    Svensker

    @Ash Can:

    It finally dawned on me that one of the reasons the Korean short track team hates Apolo Ohno so much is that Ohno is half-Japanese. I’m a bit slow.

  228. 228.

    robertdsc

    Medicare Advantage saved my company in the latter part of 2009. All those books we printed were part of that program. LOL.

  229. 229.

    Corner Stone

    Guy speaking now to Rep Ryan – Do you believe in Jesus? Do you believe in Jesus or not? Cause I’ve heard you talk about Jesus. And if we don’t agree you believe in Jesus then we are all lost.

  230. 230.

    MagicPanda

    @Sentient Puddle: Yeah. I’m not saying *I* thought he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I’m putting myself in the shoes of a Republican viewer.

    But now, Xavier Becerra is doing a good job of smacking that one down by scolding Ryan on questioning the CBO numbers and calling them the “referees” and having Ryan back down.

  231. 231.

    Svensker

    In the HuffPo picture of Obama and Boehner at the summit, Boehner has darker skin color than O.

  236. 236.

    Sentient Puddle

    @MagicPanda: I think Becerra could’ve done a bit better, but I approve of him pissing off Ryan. That was good theatre.

    I also like how Obama near immediately broke in to Grassley and said “Hey, check your math.”

  237. 237.

    jenniebee

    And CNN cuts away from Congressman Javier Something’s response to Paul Ryan to hear from their analysts.

    It also looks like we’re hearing platitudes from CNN rather than hearing what Grassley has to say, but I think that’s probably also doing a favor to Republicans.

  239. 239.

    Sentient Puddle

    Grassley called the mandate unconstitutional. That has to be a drinking word.

    ETA: He also said he was quite well aware of the “grassroots,” though I think he thinks the “grassroots” are farmers.

  245. 245.

    MK

    @kay:

    Cantor: “we all read letters by constituents who are allegedly wronged by our health care system”

    That should be the tag line for every political ad against Cantor this fall. It should be interesting to see how constituents feel at being called liars, by politicians no less.

  246. 246.

    Sentient Puddle

    Oh, and I’m getting annoyed at people constantly turning on and off their mics during someone talking. It mutes the entire sound for a moment, and makes my (tired) brain skip a beat trying to figure out what I just missed.

  247. 247.

    bemused

    @Sentient Puddle:
    R’s always say something they hate is unconstitutional.
    Charles Pierce is hilarious. Over at Eric Alterman’s blog he said the Constitution begins “We the People”, and not “I the Dickhead”. Love that guy.

  248. 248.

    Sentient Puddle

    …and Boehner brings the prop, says “scrap the bill,” it will “bankrupt our country.”

    Goddamn, I really should bust out the beer. I’m going to need it by the time he’s done talking.

    ETA: Someone should track how long he speaks. He might break the talking points-per-minute record.

  252. 252.

    kormgar

    Ah, that strange Republican lie again that the US has the worlds best healthcare system.

    I mean, I suppose if you look at the charts of outcomes upside down we look pretty good, but you’d think they’d notice that all of the words are upside down.

  253. 253.

    Ash Can

    Boehner: “The American people want us to scrap this bill. We all agree that health care needs to be fixed, but we have the best health care system in the world and this bill is a government takeover and will bankrupt us and it cuts medicare and raises taxes on Americans and it makes employers provide insurance for their employees and, and, and…I’m not making any fucking sense, am I? Oh, and this bill MAKES EVERYONE HAVE ATHEISTIC GAY ABORTIONS.”

  254. 254.

    Osprey

    @Svensker:
    Heh, was it that White House Dinner…I can’t remember what they call it, the Correspondent dinner?

    I remember Obama was talking about Boehner, and he said something along the lines of “and my colleagues in Congress, men like John Boehner, who is also a person of color…just not a color that occurs in the natural world”.

  255. 255.

    geg6

    WTF Boner? Scrap the bill is all you got besides ABORTION? Abortion? Has he read the bill? Can Oompa Loompas not read? Oooo, the MUP is calling Boner a liar straight up. Straight fucking up. Whoa.

  256. 256.

    Ash Can

    Obama: “No, John, you’re not making any sense. So just do everyone a favor and shut your goddamn pie hole, OK?”

  258. 258.

    Batocchio

    I’ll look forward to more detailed fact-checking and debunking, but it’s striking (although not surprising) that most of the Republicans are making demonstrably false statements. Paul Ryan’s slicker than most, but they’re all doing it. The more honest Republicans are offering tiny measures, which in some cases are fine, and in some cases are already in the bill, but they won’t do the whole job.

    Boehner is lying right now about the bill bankrupting the country, it being a government takeover of health care, and the U.S. having the best health care in the world. He’s also claiming the American people have rejected reform. (Boehner’s also lying about abortion now.) McCain has whined that the GOP weren’t invited to participate, when they were. Cantor was repeatedly pushing that the GOP wants reform (a lie, but okay) but that America can’t afford it. Then how do other countries get better results for less money? Health care reform will save money in the long run, and to some degree in the short and middle runs, too. But no, let’s scrap everything and start over, according to Boehner.

    I was glad to hear Obama take on some of the bullshit on those horrible, horrible cuts to Medicare Advantage (actually, eliminating ineffective subsidies to private insurance companies). Obamas’s now briefly taking on Boehner’s BS , too.

  259. 259.

    MagicPanda

    Yes! Obama just said Boehner was relying on talking points, was being counterproductive, and saying things that were not true. Total smackdown!

  260. 260.

    jenniebee

    If our government should only do things that Democrats and Republicans both agree on, why bother having elections in the first place?

  261. 261.

    No Joy in Mudville

    Orange John Boehner is on now with the twin Republican LIES that 1) America has the BEST health care system in the world and 2) Obama’s moderate health care reform is a Government Takeover of Health Care.

    The summit has been going on for hours now, and Boehner is so stupid and so dishonest that after hours his best shot is still to resort to the BIG LIE method of argument.

    Oh, nice! He just added BIG LIE #3 — the biggest “cost driver” in health care is Medical Malpractice.

    Obama follows by pointing out the absolute untruth of what Boehner just said.

  262. 262.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Ash Can: When Cooper started speaking, I could hear Obama talking faintly, as though someone near him had their mic on still. I couldn’t tell exactly what he was saying, but it did sound a little something like that.

  264. 264.

    Ash Can

    McCain’t: “We don’t want to do nothing, but we do want to start all over again.” (And that’s an actual quote.)

  266. 266.

    No Joy in Mudville

    After Boehner finished his mindboggling performance, all I could think of was Senator Rockefeller and his belief that reconciliation should not be used to pass the Public Option because it isn’t bipartisan enough.

    I would love to hear Rockefeller explain exactly what bipartisanship would like with a moderate Democratic plan on one side of the table and Boehner’s Republican Party on the other — and Boehner is representative of the Republican Party.

  267. 267.

    MagicPanda

    WTF was McCain talking about Arizonans hating California for stealing water? I’m sure that was supposed to be a joke, but it made him sound like a weird grumpy man. Instead of trying so hard to be funny, maybe he should just be himself, which… oh wait… he IS a grumpy old man.

  269. 269.

    Sentient Puddle

    (Because I can’t edit my last post)

    Is McCain citing Texas as a successful example of tort reform? Because everyone paying attention agrees that it didn’t do a damn thing.

    …and he answers. He clearly isn’t paying attention.

  270. 270.

    geg6

    Walnuts is crying over malpractice reform. And the manufactured tears are interfering with his ability to read off his palm. And back to process whining again.

  279. 279.

    MagicPanda

    Oops. Durbin started out strong by saying that tort reform would only save 1/5 of 1% of total costs, so stop talking about it. He should have left it at that.

    But now he’s going on and on about how medical malpractice suits are important, and can help save lives. Undoubtedly true, but it mixes up his message and makes it sound like he’s against tort reform on principle. Better to just say that it’s only small potatoes so let’s move to the main issues.

  280. 280.

    Ash Can

    Durbin also calling the asses out on their hypocrisy: If you think your gold-plated fed insurance coverage is sozzialistic, then drop the hell out of it.

  281. 281.

    MagicPanda

    Just to clarify, I’m with Durbin on substance. I just want to make sure that he’s smacking down the falsehoods in a way that the GOP can understand.

    By defending the idea of malpractice lawsuits, I’m sure he’s just turning off the GOP-leaners who might have been swayed by his first argument.

  282. 282.

    Ash Can

    Obama: Can the US catch up to the rest of the world and make sure its citizens have health coverage?

    WHY DOES OBAMA HATE AMERICA ::sob::

  283. 283.

    twiffer

    @inkadu: And if young people can get health savings account and not pay into the insurance pool, that would solve the problems for the young people, and those who don’t want to deal with insurance problems just stay young forever.

    was this a proposal? cause if, by health care savings accounts, they mean those crappy health care accounts that are currently offered…those fucking suck unless you know exactly how much you are going to spend on health care. cause if you don’t use all the money in them, you lose it. poof! gone.

    fuck that.

  284. 284.

    geg6

    Durbin put it in perspective for the average Joe. And that whole thing at the end about how they are rich white guys with fabbo coverage and don’t know shit about how this works for real people.

  285. 285.

    Sentient Puddle

    So they’re trying to hammer out policy…and Barrasso is trying to make a point out of the popularity of the bill? Who the fuck cares what people believe the bill will do? Why don’t we care what the bill actually fucking does?

  286. 286.

    Ash Can

    Barrasso: All the constituents I talk to don’t like this bill because they believe it will do this and won’t do that…

    Then educate them on it, asshole. That’s your job.

  289. 289.

    MagicPanda

    Go Waxman! Good way to frame the issue of catastropic care. “Would you want medicare recipients to only have catastropic care?”

    And way to bring back the Ryan budget. “Medicare recipients should be worried if we DON’T do something. In Ryan’s budget, he proposes the medicare recipients get a voucher to shop for their own insurance. Tell that to the folks in California whose premiums just went up 39%” Zing!

  292. 292.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @twiffer:

    I think you’re think of flexible spending accounts. Health savings accounts are something different. They don’t go away at the end of the year, they earn interest, etc. The propaganda sheets make them sound like the most wonderful thing since sliced bread, but frankly, I’d just rather have coverage that, you know, covers shit.

  293. 293.

    No Joy in Mudville

    DOCTOR Barrasso. What sane person would seek medical care from this POS?

    This summit is a textbook case of what to do when none of the facts are on your side — LIE, make shit up, pretend, fear-monger, etc. Sadly, those tactics are disproportionately effective with ignorant people.

    I eagerly await Senator Barrasso’s forthcoming bill to downgrade all Congressional insurance to Health Savings Accounts. I foresee at least 95 votes in favor.

  294. 294.

    twiffer

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: probably. i’ve never used them myself, because i take issue with putting money in an account, only being able to use it for certain things and then losing any balance if i don’t spend it all. frankly, i’d rather just pay the income tax.

  295. 295.

    Sentient Puddle

    By my count, this is the third time someone used the Senate bill as a prop. Didn’t these morons learn the first time that they tried that earlier? Obama smacked Cantor down. Hard.

  296. 296.

    Ash Can

    Barton: All the points I’m making now have long since been addressed and debunked here, but I’m going to waste everyone’s time and make them anyway.

  297. 297.

    Corner Stone

    @Batocchio:

    I’ll look forward to more detailed fact-checking and debunking

    Me too. Please tell me in what universe this will occurr so I can point my Stargate to it.

  298. 298.

    Batocchio

    @Corner Stone:

    Are you talking about the corporate media? Yeah, fact-checking is pretty rare there. I was thinking of Steve Benen, Greg Sargent, TPM, Ezra Klein, ObWi, C&L, ThinkProgress, Paul Krugman, BJ, many other blogs, me if I have time… Some of these are just the same old lies told over and over again, such as the GOP one that Democrats want to “cut” Medicare when they’ve proposed ending a wasteful, ineffective subsidy, and when the GOP wants to cut Medicare even more. I’m assuming Paul Ryan’s mainly peddling the same bullshit as before, but he may well have added some new bullshit. (Boehner was all old BS.)

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