Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

So fucking stupid, and still doing a tremendous amount of damage.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

A tremendous foreign policy asset… to all of our adversaries.

Fucking consultants! (of the political variety)

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?

Republicans do not trust women.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

To the privileged, equality seems like oppression.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

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142Comments

  1. 1.

    Violet

    Posted this at the tail end of the other thread, but thought I’d re-post here:

    We’re getting really close to requiring Muslims to wear crescents on their clothes:

    And… Rick asks his listeners: Would you be in favor of creating a national database of practicing Muslims? San Diego calls to weigh in…

  2. 2.

    salacious crumb

    Howard Dean : “first we gonna burn Koran’s in Iowa! then in North Carolina! and then we gonna move to New York! and then to Alaska and kick some Moslems there!! YYYEAAAAAAARRGGHHHHH!!!!!

  7. 7.

    Comrade Dread

    So glad Howard Dean and Harry Reid have to look to Ron Paul for how to handle bigotry. Well played, guys.

    Yes.

    You should know by now that the category of people who really believe in constitutional rights AND have read the damn thing consist of the shrill, the DFHs, traitors, and nutjobs.

    All of the serious, sane people know that in order to preserve religious freedom, we must destroy it, register minority religions in a national database, and put them into labor camps in the desert. It’s the only way to be sure…

  8. 8.

    Keith G

    When I was just a lad, the inherent in-your-face idealism of most Democrats attracted my attention to this political party.

    Oh well.

  9. 9.

    suzanne

    My phone has been ringing off the hook today, with volunteers from all the Democratic candidates trying to get my to vote for their person tomorrow. I’m sadly disappointed in Glassman. Gonna vote for Parraz. Not that it matters.

    I got up five times to pee last night, my nose won’t stop bleeding, and we have an excessive heat advisory. In Phoenix, when they say “excessive heat”, they mean “surface of the sun”. I feel awful. I want to be done being pregnant soon.

  10. 10.

    debit

    It’s possible I have too many tomatoes. I know, I know, I was bitching just a couple weeks ago that they weren’t ripe yet, but now they are and I can only eat so many a day, people!

  13. 13.

    SIA

    @Redshirt: Seconded. The Dems could rule if the fuckers could grow a pair each. Seriously.

    I’m pretty surprised by Dean’s position. I record Morning Joe and watch it occasionally to see which way the Village breeze is blowing for the day. There’s definitely a trend towards pro-Cordoba center and a repugnance towards the insane right wing vitriol. That video that was posted here with the poor sap who walked by the jackals and was accosted was shown on MJ and clucked over.

    Gotta hand it to Tweety – he does put out the effort to point out the smear tactics when he’s able to see them. He’s really going after the GOP leadership over the “I take the president at his word” re Obama’s religion.

  15. 15.

    Chad N Freude

    @suzanne: I grew up in Phoenix, and now I have to wear long johns and a parka when I go outdoors in the summer anywhere else in the country lest I freeze. Pregnant in Phoenix during a global warming summer — I had to take out a second sympathy-mortgage to have enough to give you.

  16. 16.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Hmmm….. something went wiggy when I tried to post. Just wanted to say, don’t forget Dick Durbin, who is a dorky mensch.

    “The politicians like Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin who try to divide America with fear and hate over this issue betray the diversity which makes our nation great and the Constitution which they profess to honor.”

  19. 19.

    Violet

    @Chad N Freude:
    It’s really disgusting isn’t it? I wish I could say I was shocked, but honestly nothing about these racist, fascist fuckers shocks me anymore.

    The really sad thing is, there are probably a lot of people saying we should create a “Muslim database” and maybe even require them to register or put stickers on their cars all in the interest of “keeping us safe.” The fact that people can’t make the comparisons to what happened to the Jews early in the 20th century, despite the suggestions being almost a step-by-step imitation, is even sadder.

  20. 20.

    El Cid

    I can understand (I mean analyze, not admit the rightness of) Reid, given his political circumstance; but what is Dean’s motive? Just hates Muslims? Thinks Muslims shouldn’t stir up such controversy by, you know, doing Muslim-y things?

  23. 23.

    Chad N Freude

    @Violet: I can hardly wait for someone to publish The Protocols of the Elders of Islam.

    It occurs to me that that might make a good tag for this kind of stuff.

  25. 25.

    beltane

    This upsets me too much for snark. Whatever his motivations were, I am grateful that Ron Paul stood up for what is right here. In times where the shit hits the fan, it is hard to predict who will behave honorably and who will not. My husband works with some Bosnian Muslims who are still extremely traumatized by what they lived through. I have nothing but bile for people who want to recreate that kind of horror here, and I don’t give a damn about which side of the aisle they are on.

  27. 27.

    Violet

    @SIA:

    The Dems could rule if the fuckers could grow a pair each.

    The Dems could rule if only a quarter of them grew a pair each. Imagine the ruckus if a full third did. As it stands, there are so few elected Dems who have anything approaching brass ones you can probably count them without being able to count higher than Louie Gohmert can.

  28. 28.

    Josie

    @suzanne: You have my sincere sympathy. My middle son (now 29) was born in September. I survived the severe heat of deep South Texas only with the help of a swimming pool. I looked quite a bit like a big frog on a lily pad in my maternity swim suit, but it saved us both. Find a pool and spend as much time there as possible. It cools you off and makes you feel weightless. The only downside is when you have to climb out and return to reality.

  29. 29.

    beltane

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thank you for that. Dick Durban is now on my “nice” list. When push comes to shove it is important to know who stands by our Constitution. The Sunshine Patriots out there can just go f**k off.

  31. 31.

    Chad N Freude

    @stuckinred: They’ve already got what they want. Airports, PATRIOT Act, raging crowds showing their courage with misspelled signs. Unless of course what they want is actual Muslim blood in the streets.

  33. 33.

    J.W. Hamner

    Made a nectarine pizza off a recipe from alexadra’s Kitchen tonight. We used peaches instead of nectarines, picked goat cheese as our base, and used Peter Reinhart’s pizza dough instead of hers… but it was really good. Never would have thought of peaches/nectarines.

  35. 35.

    BR

    @Redshirt:

    Really? Has Grayson prominently stood up on this issue? I remember him pulling a Anthony Weiner on the Gaza aid flotilla, so I figured he’d be following Weiner on this one.

  37. 37.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Watching TRMS, when Pamela Gellar went on CNN, she used quotes and “research” from a group that wants to outlaw Islam, to make it illegal to practice the religion, in the United States.

    Has Mrs Dan Senor been on that pathetic shell of a network since all this hooha started?

  38. 38.

    geg6

    Maybe even at my advanced age I am still naive in some ways, but I’ve been gobsmacked by Dean’s assholery. Not that he can be an asshole (what politician isn’t, even an Obot must admit), but that he chooses to publically and vociforously be an asshole about this particular thing. Never pegged him for an ethnic or religious bigot but I will always believe he is now. It’s disgusting and doubly so because I really admired Dr. Dean in many ways. Sad. It’s just sad.

  39. 39.

    stuckinred

    @Chad N Freude: Trouble Every Day.

    Well, I seen the fires burnin’
    And the local people turnin’
    On the merchants and the shops
    Who used to sell their brooms and mops
    And every other household item
    Watched the mob just turn and bite ’em
    And they say it served ’em right
    Because a few of them are white,
    And it’s the same across the nation
    Black and white discrimination
    Yellin’ “You can’t understand me!”
    ‘N all that other jazz they hand me
    In the papers and TV and
    All that mass stupidity
    That seems to grow more every day
    Each time you hear some nitwit say
    He wants to go and do you in
    Because the color of your skin
    Just don’t appeal to him
    (No matter if it’s black or white)
    Because he’s out for blood tonight

    F Zapppa 1966

  41. 41.

    kay

    I think Dean was just talking and spouted a mess of reasonable-sounding nonsense, and then was too vain to admit it, when he realized the implications of what he said.

    Harry Reid sounded like he meant it. It’s entirely possible he’s simply a religious bigot. He sure sounded like one.

  43. 43.

    suzanne

    Awww, thank you all for the sympathy. I’ve been feeling quite sorry for myself, as I can’t walk across a parking lot without nearly passing out. And the anti-immigrant sentiment here has really just been getting under my skin. I’ve been volunteering for Goddard and Mitchell, but I wish I could do more. Primaries are tomorrow. Sigh.

  44. 44.

    Batocchio

    Yup, pretty sad. Although as Digby pointed out, Ron Paul also pushes some BS in the same op-ed… and I guess he’s criticizing his son as well. But sad.

  46. 46.

    SIA

    @Violet: Heh. Or maybe even Louie’s IQ. (whichever is lower).

    @J.: Aw! Flora and Felix are fetching.

    ETA: @stuckinred: You’re an Athens guy, right? Did you see Zappa at the Fox in ATL – would have been late 70’s? FAB show opened by the Dixie Dregs.

  48. 48.

    Violet

    @kay:

    I think Dean was just talking and spouted a mess of reasonable-sounding nonsense, and then was too vain to admit it, when he realized the implications of what he said.

    From some of the stuff I read it sounded like he didn’t know much about the whole development. I got the impression he thought it was more along the lines of a huge mosque with gleaming minarets and a gold statue of Bin Laden being sucked off by Jesus, all being built smack dab in the middle of the former World Trade Center site, than a community center two blocks away with a prayer room. So when he asked for “compromise” he was thinking they should move away from the Bin Laden memorial to something a little less in-your-face.

    But he was wrong. And instead of admitting it, he’s kept on going. Vanity? Stubbornness? Stupidity? I don’t know, but it’s not becoming. He could admit he was wrong and now that he’s learned more has revised his view. It would provide a big opening for others who want to do the same thing.

  50. 50.

    debit

    @jeffreyw: I will have to give that a shot. I just picked two large bowls tonight, and still have bunches of green ones on the vine.

    OTOH, I already have plans for next year. A friend brought me some Golden Sun cherry tomatoes that were just lovely. I gotta grow some next year.

  51. 51.

    burnspbesq

    @Violet:

    It’s San Diego, Violet.

    Now imagine I said that in the same tone of voice that the guy said “It’s Chinatown, Jake” at the end of Chinatown.

  53. 53.

    Violet

    @jeffreyw:
    Darn you! I’m craving Mexican food and trying not to go out to the local TexMex dive. That didn’t help. Looks yummy.

  56. 56.

    Anne Laurie

    @suzanne: Try wrapping a bunch of ice cubes in a wet kerchief and tying it around your neck. Cooling down the core arteries really helps reduce the PMI (personal misery index) for us fat people, so it might work for your pregnancy-induced “excessive pink insulation R-rating”…

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @beltane: I guess I knew that, just got it into my head for some reason that she was on maternity leave. Now that I think about it, wasn’t her resignation press release an extended whine about how no one appreciated her awesome centrist professionalism?

  59. 59.

    Violet

    @burnspbesq:
    Yeah, I know it’s San Diego. Have relatives that live there and a childhood friend who lived there for awhile. But that guy also fills in for one of the nationwide talkers. Probably Beck, Limbaugh or Hannity, because that’s the lineup on the AM station I listen to when I’m in the car and want weather or traffic news. I know I’ve heard his name as a fill-in, so he’s not keeping his fascist views confined to San Diego.

  60. 60.

    parsimon

    @debit:

    It’s possible I have too many tomatoes.

    I suggest fresh salsa, aka pico de gallo, aka salsa fresca. I just demolished made short work of a third of the tomatoes in this house this way.

  61. 61.

    General Stuck

    I just don’t know what to make of Dean’s anti Mosque stance. I figured he would think about it a day or less and do his usual mea culpa for shooting of his mouth again. But that hasn’t been the case. Whatever his motive is, it’s hard to swallow he is a bigot of any sort, maybe it’s politics, or some misplaced sympathy for the 9-11 families. It’s not like a liberal has never done that. I just can’t be a Dean supporter any more, all his schlubbing with the proleft crowd is forgivable, but not this.

    I do understand why Reid is doing the same, good ole political fear in the heat of a tough reelection campaign in a largely tea bagger state. It doesn’t make it any less loathsome, but at least is understandable as to why.

  62. 62.

    Allison W.

    @Violet:

    From some of the stuff I read it sounded like he didn’t know much about the whole development.

    I don’t buy that. Howard Dean is a smart man. He should have known all this stuff already. Remember, he was a latecomer to this issue so he should have had all the facts.

  65. 65.

    J.W. Hamner

    @parsimon:

    Alton Brown has a really nice recipe for slow roasted tomatoes that we use every summer with excess tomatoes. It basically gets you a waaaay better version of sun dried tomatoes that you do in the oven at like 170-200 degrees for 10 hours+. Makes the house smell awesome.

  66. 66.

    Suffern ACE

    The odd thing is, I think compared to 1994, the Dems are actually fighting harder. The ability of Republicans to set the debate has just gotten stronger.

  67. 67.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @General Stuck:

    I do understand why Reid is doing the same, good ole political fear in the heat of a tough reelection campaign in a largely tea bagger state

    I think you’re mostly right, about Dean’s misplaced sympathy (and others are right about his stubborn vanity) and Read, but I suspect Nevadans on the whole care more about Yucca mountain than Ground Zero.

  68. 68.

    Kristine

    @debit: I spent a good part of Saturday making veggie chili and marinara. That used up 6 pounds of tomatoes. I think I have enough–about 4 pounds–for another batch of marinara. I also had to yank out a Roma that was covered with suspicious brown spots. It wasn’t a very strong plant, and it only had a few fruits, so I won’t miss it. I just hope that if it suffered from blight, I caught it before it had a chance to spread. None of the other plants appear to be affected, but I won’t know until I know.

  69. 69.

    kay

    @Violet:

    Vanity? Stubbornness? Stupidity? I don’t know, but it’s not becoming.

    I think “stubborn” is probably closer than “vain” in Howard Dean’s case, although maybe the two are related.

    I’m more bothered by Reid. Didn’t that come off visceral and blurted out? Like he means it, although generally doesn’t say it.

    Too, he’s a sitting Senator, so that makes it much worse.

  73. 73.

    Violet

    @Allison W.:

    I don’t buy that. Howard Dean is a smart man. He should have known all this stuff already. Remember, he was a latecomer to this issue so he should have had all the facts.

    “Should have known” and “Knew” are two separate things. Here’s what I remember reading:

    Dean says the Cordoba House proponents are being inflexible. And maybe they are. But he also makes clear that he takes “the congregation at its word that it is a moderate congregation trying to heal the wounds of 9/11.” Only there’s no congregation. It’s a investment group (Soho Properties) and a Muslim non-profit (the Cordoba Initiative) trying put this together. Ahh, never mind. But he does point out that “best way to heal the wounds is not to have a court battle, but to sit down and try to work things out.” Good point, only there’s no Court battle. It’s done. They got the approval. Maybe someone will get Mayor Bloomberg ginned up about Muslim plot to make us all eat Halal food. But there’s no court battle.

    He sure doesn’t sound like he’s got all the facts to me.

  75. 75.

    beltane

    @Suffern ACE: There was no Fox News in 1994. It is one thing to take on a political party; it is another thing to take on a media empire that is dedicated to pushing far-right political porn. If Jeebus really, truly loved America he would cause the Fox News satellites to crash into the Australian Outback.

  76. 76.

    debit

    @parsimon: I made six quarts of gazpacho. That barely put a dent in what I’d picked over the weekend.

    @jeffreyw: NOM.

    @Kristine: I have been so lucky; all of my plants are disgustingly healthy. The only damage has been of the squirrel bite type.

    This is also my plug for landscaping fabric covered with mulch. I don’t know why I never tried it before, but there are zero weeds and it keeps moisture in beautifully. Definitely using it again next year.

  77. 77.

    Anne Laurie

    @debit:

    It’s possible I have too many tomatoes…

    Slow-roasting the extras at 200 degrees for 4-6 hours doesn’t heat up the kitchen much. Cut them in halves (or quarters), put them on parchment paper, dribble a little olive oil on, maybe some minced garlic or whatever herbs look good. Once they’ve lost enough water to make the kitchen smell irresistable, you can slip off the skins, slide out the seeds if you’re fussy, and goosh the good bits into freezer bags or containers. Cherry tomatoes, after 2 hours or so, turn into gross-looking but very tasty little “raisins” that can be eaten out of hand, mixed into salads / pastas, or frozen for later use. Come the dark midwinter, you get to dig out those little bags of deliciousness & scent up the kitchen (again) with Concentrated Summer memories!

    New variety discovery of the summer, around here, is a Hungarian paste type called Opalka. The transplant I bought on a whim was very early and prolific, growing so swiftly it’s been hard to avoid blossom end rot (it’s in a pot & taking up water twice as fast as the other plants in adjoining planters). The fruits were only just average, eaten fresh off the plant, but when I roasted a bunch they were just incredibly flavorful & complicated.

  79. 79.

    kay

    @Violet:

    Yup. No idea what he was talking about. Now he knows, of course, but he isn’t going to back down. Maybe he was on vacation (August!) and missed the whole lead-up campaign.

    He should have said that: “I was away. Why are we talking about a mosque?”

  80. 80.

    General Stuck

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    but I suspect Nevadans on the whole care more about Yucca mountain than Ground Zero.

    In a presidential election year, I think this would be right. But it is the nativist crowd that is fired up to vote in the coming mid term, and Reid has already proved his worth in stopping, or helping stop Yucca MT. But I really don’t know much about NV politics, other than it has a lot of wingnuts, the western version.

  81. 81.

    Violet

    @gex:
    This is really excellent. I’ve only watched the first few minutes but wanted to post anyway before the thread got too long. The fact that it was made by the US Government is even better.

    It’s all okay to talk about “them”….until they’re talking about you.

    Edit: This video is so fascinating. I wonder if someone who posts on the front page here could do a post on it. It really dovetails with what’s happening today. Link again, for good measure: youtube.com/watch?v=0w03tJ3IkrM

  83. 83.

    aimai

    @Anne Laurie:

    Yes, also running cold water over your wrists. But the nosebleeds sound awful, as well–I used to get them a lot as a kid and they finally cauterized my nose. Is it just too dry in your house? I second the “find a swimming pool and stay in it” but, of course, that’s easier said than done. How about a bathtub full of ice cubes, like that scene from the (brain freeze) William Hurt/Katherine What’s her name movie in which she seduces him on a steamy New Orleans night by lying in a bathtub of ice cubes (as one friend of mine said, killing the erotic symbolism with one deft blow, “if she’s so rich how come she can’t afford an air conditioner?).

    aimai

  85. 85.

    The humanity

    @Violet:

    The fact that people can’t make the comparisons to what happened to the Jews early in the 20th century, despite the suggestions being almost a step-by-step imitation, is even sadder.

    Those same people will tell you Obama is like Hitler

  86. 86.

    Nick

    @SIA:

    The Dems could rule if the fuckers could grow a pair each.

    I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t win elections outside of the cities and Vermont if they did.

  87. 87.

    parsimon

    @debit: Oh my. If you have that many tomatoes, canning is probably the only solution. Not that there’s anything wrong with that; roll up your sleeves.

  89. 89.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @SIA:

    Seconded. The Dems could rule if the fuckers could grow a pair each. Seriously.

    I really, seriously doubt this. Rather than going through the reasons why, let me ask you this. If talking tough was such an easy way for Democrats to rule, then why do Democrats who don’t keep winning primaries? Where are all of the tough talking Democrats and why don’t they get elected?

    As I said, there are reasons why I think it doesn’t work for Democrats, but the results speak pretty plainly for themselves. Tough talk doesn’t even win Democratic primaries, let alone general elections.

  93. 93.

    Gravenstone

    @Chad N Freude:

    Rand Paul strikes me as not very bright. Probably smarter than Louie Gohmert, though.

    Dude, Ive got a block of swiss cheese in my fridge that’s smarter than Louis Gohmert. Seriously, low hurdle you’re setting there.

  94. 94.

    Nick

    @That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN): The problem is there aren’t nearly as many progressive Democratic VOTERS as there are conservative Republican voters.

    The numbers of conservatives and moderates in the Democratic Party are huge.

    I grew up in a family of Republicans and conservative Democrats in a town full of moderate/conservative Democrats..very often the Democrats were more right wing than the Republicans.

  99. 99.

    soonergrunt

    An article in Talking Points Memo by a Law Professor, or quoting said Law Prof about why today’s stem cell ruling isn’t going to stand:

    I don’t know much about stem cells, but I know a lot about administrative law (which I’m gearing up to teach again this semester), and I’ve read the opinion.

    and

    First, from a legal standpoint, Lamberth’s ruling is quite vulnerable; it’s not on solid ground at all.

    Go read the whole thing and give them the traffic stats.

  101. 101.

    SIA

    @mr. whipple: Yes, it would have been around that time. Great, great concert.

    @Nick:
    @That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN): No.
    “Growing a pair” does not equal “tough talk” IMO. I am saying that if the Dems, even Blue Dogs, would stop trying to be GOP-lite, and tout the virtues of the legislation that they have passed, and stop squealing like frightened children when confronted about GOVERNING. Yes, a large minority wouldn’t listen or would mutter the usual wingnut anti-goverment nonsense, but I’m tired of my side being ashamed of who they are and what they do. Dems should be the party of government, and I don’t think alot of people know the precepts for some of the legislation that has been passed. For example, why the stimulus was necessary, or the simple benefits from HCR, or the credit card reform Maddow discussed on her show tonight. Take a stand on their own positions, be proud of the legislation and the concept of good government. Some of it will sink it. People want leadership, strong, ethical, unapologetic leadership.

    I am NOT referring to acting like silly bad asses (“Build the dang fence” and “Big John” Cornyn). Of course Dems would do better if they stopped being ashamed of what they stand for.

  103. 103.

    Nick

    @SIA:

    I am saying that if the Dems, even Blue Dogs, would stop trying to be GOP-lite

    I knew what you were saying and what I’m saying is a large bloc of Democratic voters ARE GOP-lite and that’ s what they keep voting for.

    For example, why the stimulus was necessary, or the simple benefits from HCR, or the credit card reform Maddow discussed on her show tonight. Take a stand on their own positions, be proud of the legislation and the concept of good government. Some of it will sink it.

    They do do this, they do it alot, it’s drowned out in the media and by the “professional left” who dismiss all of that as just crap.

    People want leadership, strong, ethical, unapologetic leadership.

    No, I don’t think they do. I used to think so, but I don’t anymore. otherwise Obama’s approval rating wouldn’t have plummeted after he took a strong, ethical, unapologetic stand on the “mosque.” I think they want strong, ethical, unapologetic leadership from Republicans, and from Democrats…they want them to be more like the Republicans they used to like.

  104. 104.

    cleek

    @Chad N Freude:
    Reid sucks. he completely, utterly, totally, fucking sucks.

    since we don’t have the magic 60, a loss of one more might just be worth the opportunity to get a new Majority Leader – maybe one from a safer state who doesn’t have to please the shitty Blue Dogs as much.

    dare to dream.

  105. 105.

    BruceFromOhio

    @SIA:

    Of course Dems would do better if they stopped being ashamed of what they stand for.

    Ten fucking jillion times this. Many hands make light work, and if the fucking morons in the Senate would figure it out, we’d be through with all this crap.

  106. 106.

    MikeJ

    @cleek: The last time the dems had a majority leader from a safe seat was Byrd in ’89.

    Before him it was Mansfield from Montana, and before that LBJ. Don’t count on Bernie to get it.

  107. 107.

    Chad N Freude

    @cleek: @cleek: Reid is a loser, but he’s our loser. Having Angle replace him is not the reinvigorating loss of one seat that you seem to want, it’s an addition of one more Gohmert-Bachmann (yes, I know they’re not in the Senate) legislative vote. Do we really want that?

  108. 108.

    SIA

    @Nick: You may be right , but I’ll just respond and leave it there.

    I knew what you were saying and what I’m saying is a large bloc of Democratic voters ARE GOP-lite and that’ s what they keep voting for.

    If they want GOP they’ll vote GOP. They vote Dem because they want something other than GOP. They’ll vote Dem if the Dems are clear on what they stand for and those positions are reasoned and logical. In a more conservative district, yes, the voter won’t be as progressive. That doesn’t mean they’re repubs. They want government that’s not extreme. Being proud of the stimulus or HCR doesn’t require being a progressive. They’re not the same thing.

    They do do this, they do it alot, it’s drowned out in the media and by the “professional left” who dismiss all of that as just crap.

    I still think on the local level, in ads and on radio/local TV and other media, a moderate or otherwise Dem can tout his or her legislative accomplishments to voters in detail and will get a better reaction if they don’t seem to be apologizing for them. Everyone hates the stimulus, yes, but most people are for the basic tenets of HCR. And CC & financial reform. Taking the offense against the GOP candidate for being a nay-sayer and doing nothing, rather than apologizing for their own platform, would be refreshing and voters would respond to their positivity and confidence, even if they don’t agree with everything.

    No, I don’t think they do, otherwise Obama’s approval rating wouldn’t have plummeted after he took a strong, ethical, unapologetic stand on the “mosque”

    If Obama’s rating dropped after that, it was probably more because of his perceived “walk back” (which I don’t think he did and it pisses me off that so many people say he did). I missed that poll and would be interested in getting a link for that. But yes, even Obama tiptoes around too much on many of these issues.

    So, badly argued and probably incoherent, but I stand by my original position.

  109. 109.

    Svensker

    @suzanne:

    I’ve been feeling quite sorry for myself, as I can’t walk across a parking lot without nearly passing out.

    A tip from a nurse from Savannah — get some Sea Breeze astringent. Put some in a bucket/bowl with some ice and water. Dip cotton scarf/small towel in the bowl, wring it out and drape on the back of your neck. Like being transported to a glacier.

    I was third trimester in NJ in one of the hottest humidest (?) summers on record and I felt like a suffering miserable cow. My sympathies.

  110. 110.

    Seebach

    What I find so ironic about this is that these bigots are making me find common cause with religions I abhor. I think Islam is stupid, as all religions are, but it’s especially stupid since it demands so much for nothing. And yet, the constitution says there’s freedom of religion, and so that’s pretty much it. End of debate. I don’t necessarily like it, but that’s freedom.

  111. 111.

    Charity

    @stuckinred: Terrorists don’t HAVE to do anything anymore. They’re sitting back watching these assholes on Faux News, laughing at how they’re doing a more efficient job of tearing this country apart than any guy with a bomb strapped to his chest could ever do. They get all the sturm und drang without lifting a finger.

  112. 112.

    Violet

    @SIA:

    “Growing a pair” does not equal “tough talk” IMO. I am saying that if the Dems, even Blue Dogs, would stop trying to be GOP-lite, and tout the virtues of the legislation that they have passed, and stop squealing like frightened children when confronted about GOVERNING.

    Agree. The Dems pass stuff and then hem and haw about what they’ve done. If they’d stand up for it and tout its virtues they’d get a lot more respect.

    @Nick:

    They do do this, they do it alot, it’s drowned out in the media and by the “professional left” who dismiss all of that as just crap.

    Who are you calling the professional left in this context? The Dems that I see, and admittedly I don’t watch cable “news” all that often, but I do see clips, seem all too often to be afraid to stand up for their beliefs, let alone stand up for their constituents.

    No, I don’t think they do. I used to think so, but I don’t anymore. otherwise Obama’s approval rating wouldn’t have plummeted after he took a strong, ethical, unapologetic stand on the “mosque.” I think they want strong, ethical, unapologetic leadership from Republicans, and from Democrats…they want them to be more like the Republicans they used to like.

    Going with insta-approval-rating-polls isn’t really a good idea, imho. Sure, there might be some initial falling off because people don’t understand the issue or are acting on fear. But then you’ve got people like the strippers who work near Ground Zero:

    But for Chris, who declined to give her last name, and other dancers at the two strip clubs within three blocks of the World Trade Center site, the neighborhood is just where they go to work.
    __
    As supporters held signs extolling religious freedom at the site of the proposed Islamic center Wednesday, a stripper who gave her name as Cassandra was working the afternoon shift at New York Dolls on Murray Street — just around the corner. She worried that calls to prayer from the mosque at Park51 might wake up neighbors. But when she was told that the organizers aren’t planning loudspeakers, she said she didn’t have a problem with the project.
    __
    “I don’t know what the big deal is,” Cassandra said. “It’s freedom of religion, you know?”

    and

    But Chris, the stripper who volunteered in the Ground Zero recovery, sat on a barstool in a tiny, shiny red dress and defended Park51. “They’re not building a mosque in the World Trade Center,” she pointed out. “It’s all good. You have your synagogues and your churches. And you have a mosque.”
    __
    Chris said she lost eight friends on Sept. 11, 2001 — firefighters from the Brooklyn firehouse next to her home at the time. “The people who did it are not going to the mosque,” she said.

    The strippers get the idea of freedom of religion. So do lots of other Americans. The President did the right thing and it may take a little while for the teabaggers to overplay their hand and let the American people’s opinion catch up with the President’s views. But I think his approval ratings will recover. Largely because he has shown principled leadership.

  113. 113.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @SIA:

    “Growing a pair” does not equal “tough talk” IMO.

    If you don’t, then using Alan Grayson as your example is a poor choice.

    Of course Dems would do better if they stopped being ashamed of what they stand for.

    And I will ask again: if this is true, why do such Democrats not get elected? Where are they?

    I’m every bit as frustrated and pissed off as you are, but your argument has a giant hole in it. You assume that unashamed Democrats would obviously be winners in a world where there aren’t very many of those kinds of Democrats who actually hold seats in Congress, particularly the Senate. Unless you can explain this discrepancy to me, I’m not buying the argument.

    Why don’t the people you claim would win elections easily actually win elections?

  114. 114.

    Nick

    @SIA:

    If they want GOP they’ll vote GOP.

    Sometimes they do, see Reagan, Ronald. Often they vote Democrat when the Republicans have been so terrible, they just can’t vote for them again (Clinton, Obama)m

    They vote Dem because they want something other than GOP.

    They want someone not batshit insane, doesn’t mean they want a progressive.

    They’ll vote Dem if the Dems are clear on what they stand for and those positions are reasoned and logical

    .

    They often are, the difference is they’re just clear on standing for the Republican agenda.

    In a more conservative district, yes, the voter won’t be as progressive. That doesn’t mean they’re repubs.

    No, it means they’re the conservadems we bitch about.

    They want government that’s not extreme. Being proud of the stimulus or HCR doesn’t require being a progressive. They’re not the same thing.

    No, they’re not because progressives aren’t proud of the stimulus or HCR, moderates are.

    The thing that always pisses me off about the blogsphere is their criticism of conservadems or Blue Dogs without acknowledging a large portion of their party’s voting bloc are conservadems/Blue Dogs.

  116. 116.

    Suffern ACE

    @Charity: Exactly. I don’t think the terrorists will even bother with anything high profile or risky. At this point, they just need to send a picture with their tongues sticking out and it will cause our leaders to flee to that cave in the mountains.

  117. 117.

    SIA

    @Nick: You have the time, energy, and capacity to discuss things in detail over and over in a thread. I don’t. You might be right. I’m often wrong. Still, stand by what I said originally.

    @That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN): Um, I don’t remember using Alan Grayson as an example of anything.

    And I will ask again: if this is true, why do such Democrats not get elected? Where are they?

    Exactly my point! Where are they? Such Democrats do not exist, or if they do, they exist in very small numbers. That’s the fatal fucking flaw of my party. If there were more of them (confident, proud of what government can do, conscious of what it can’t, and unapologetic), more would get elected. The ones we have now get elected by default because their voters don’t want the republican. That doesn’t mean they like the wishy washy Dem. If the voters had better choices, they’d make better choices. I’m not talking about progressives. I’m talking about defending the basic Democratic Party platform.

    And ditto what I said to Nick. I might be wrong. But I don’t think so. Nuff said.

  118. 118.

    SIA

    @BruceFromOhio: Yeah, I don’t really understand the wimpiness, unless Fox has everyone terrified. Very discouraging. The Senate seems pretty hopeless, and yet we have some very good Dem senators. The Democratic party platform is not extreme, center right country my ass. :)

  119. 119.

    Carrie

    So, my dad died last night.
    dunno really why i’m typing these words but call it a compunction or for my sake, a mark in time.

  120. 120.

    SIA

    @Carrie: Oh God, I am sorry. Oh shit. Do you have some people around you? I hope so. I lost my dad in 1994 and remember that feeling so well. It’s wrenching. (((hugs))). One day at a time.

  121. 121.

    Suffern ACE

    @Nick: Not only bitch about conservadem, but bitch at conservadem voters, and then wonder why efforts to try to convince those conservadem voters to move a bit to the left fail. For better or worse, the Democrats have been painted as “liberal” and so has the MSM. We know that that is not true, but it is the hand as it stands.

    Obama is losing because people have been convinced that he doesn’t care about them. That’s the case. People seem to have adopted the line that he “lectures” and “is trying to tell them how to feel.” When he goes against those “feelings” too many times, economy or no economy, he won’t be popular.

    Economy, scheconomy. The economy was improving two years into Clinton’s first term and by that time, the MSM and the then less hi-profile RW conspiracy managed to convince enough moderates that he didn’t care about them, that everything he did was tainted with scandal, or sex, or to cover up a scandal, and that he was giving the country away. For eight years you heard the MSM from the village repeat “no one really likes the Clintons” even when he was becoming more popular.

  122. 122.

    Svensker

    @Carrie:

    So, my dad died last night.
    dunno really why i’m typing these words but call it a compunction or for my sake, a mark in time.

    Very sorry to hear that. Losing a parent is a hard, hard thing.

  123. 123.

    Nick

    @SIA:

    Where are they? Such Democrats do not exist, or if they do, they exist in very small numbers.

    Because only half the party are proud progressives to begin with. They don’t exist because they dont win and there’s only a small constituency for them to play to. How many candidates has the blogsphere endorsed who went on to be killed in elections.

  124. 124.

    Violet

    @Carrie:
    So sorry to hear that. Was it sudden or did you know it was imminent? So very difficult either way. Sending tons of hugs. Do you have people around you to lean on?

  125. 125.

    Suffern ACE

    @Violet: Violet, I keep coming back to this idea that opinions of scantily clad women are carrying a lot of weight in this debate. I was hoping Miss USA would have won Miss Universe tonight so that her opinion would get out there. I know the opinion of Miss USA is not shared by many here – perhaps the center should move in light of the controversy – but it seems that being scantily clad makes people sit up and pay attention. I would rather that people would listen to people who are trying to ratchet the tension down a little, who may not feel emotionally good about the center’s location but who don’t want to be angry.

    Hopefully, they will overplay their hand – that this “Victory Mosque” becomes their Terry Shiavo. That won’t happen though until people realize that they have been made upset over nothing.

  126. 126.

    SIA

    @Nick: Again, I am not talking about progressives. I’m talking about the straight democratic party platform. Being progressive has nothing to do with my opinion.

  127. 127.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @SIA:

    Exactly my point! Where are they? Such Democrats do not exist, or if they do, they exist in very small numbers. That’s the fatal fucking flaw of my party. If there were more of them (confident, proud of what government can do, conscious of what it can’t, and unapologetic), more would get elected. The ones we have now get elected by default because their voters don’t want the republican. That doesn’t mean they like the wishy washy Dem. If the voters had better choices, they’d make better choices. I’m not talking about progressives. I’m talking about defending the basic Democratic Party platform.

    This makes zero sense. You seem to be positing that there are two separate pools: Democratic politicians and Democratic voters, and that they don’t mix. That’s wrong.

    If Democratic voters were really as inclined to vote for the type of people you claim they would, then those sorts of candidates would step forward, and Democrats would nominate them. And yet, they don’t. Instead, Democrats keep nominating the kind of candidates you despise.

    I want an explanation from you as to why Democrats do not elect candidates that fit the mold that you claim would be easily elected. If it were as simple as you claim, they would already be electing lots of them. But they don’t.

    I don’t buy an argument that these sorts of candidates just never run even though they would be elected easily. Things just don’t work that way. If the Democratic Party is filled with voters that want to elect a kind of candidate, and the general public is full of people who would elect such a candidate, those sorts of candidates will run.

    What is the mechanism that keeps this from happening?

  128. 128.

    cckids

    @Chad N Freude: This. Plus, it means that those of us in NV who are sane will be throwing up in our mouths every time we have to say “Senator Angle”. Gaahh! makes my fingers hurt to type it.

  129. 129.

    joel hanes

    why do such Democrats [ those who are not ashamed of Democratic policies and who are not Republican-lite ] not get elected

    Because corporations and businessmen perceive that such Dems are

    1. Are not for sale

    2. Might advocate or pass policies that diminished the profitability of some business, somewhere, or worse (and God forbid) diminish the compensation of upper management.

    and so these deep-pockets entities do not donate to the campaigns of such Democrats, and instead donate to the campaigns of those who can be bought or who are themselves corporatists.

    I’m suprised that Nick thinks that voters count for much, even in primaries. Corporate money + TV advertising + corporate media has increasingly meant that voters are often successfully manipulated into voting against their own best interests, and for the interests of corporations and the rising permanent aristocracy.

  130. 130.

    Batocchio

    @Carrie:

    Very sorry to hear it. I lost my dad a few years back. It’s very tough. There were times I just wanted to be alone, but having family and friends available for all the other times was important. I hope you have something like that. Condolences.

  132. 132.

    Carrie

    @SIA:
    @Svensker: @Violet:

    Thank you, ladies.
    He went peacefully, surrounded by his huge brood and his “old girl” and we all got a chance to talk to him individually.
    I told him he did a good job and sang him a dirty ditty he tought us when we were way too young to understand the meaning….
    I think i was 14 when i finally understood what the rabbi said to the little boy…..it won’t be long now!

  133. 133.

    roshan

    Afghan Patriots – Living with the Taliban (video, 10 mins)

    What would some of you do if a foreign country invaded your homeland? Put yourself in their shoes. A Western journalist lives with a Taliban fighting group, documenting and filming their daily lives, risking his own freedom and his life in the process.

  134. 134.

    Triassic Sands

    So glad Howard Dean and Harry Reid have to look to Ron Paul for how to handle bigotry.

    I don’t know about Dean, but Reid doesn’t need anyone to help him behave like the low-life weasel he is. I’ve sent so many “Jeebus, what a royal POS you are” emails to the Majority Leader for his endless stream of disgusting behavior that I’ve been considering just making up a form letter to send to him to save time.

    In every era there are a few politicians who stand out as slimier, more craven, and more nauseating than their peers. Who makes the list is subjective, so different people will have different lists. For me, Reid has earned a place high on my list of the lowest of the low. I cringe when I hear him speak and often wonder how anyone could live with such a creepy guy.

    Dean has had his ups and downs, but this seems to be a relative low point for him. I’m mystified by anyone not running for office feeling the need to go public with an opinion opposing the constitutional rights of Americans, especially when it requires singling out a religious group and pretending that’s not what you’re doing.

    It’s easy to look back through American history and deplore the all-too-common instances of the American people and their leaders behaving as though the US Constitution were just some quaint old curiosity, but the truth is we’ve never had a golden age of liberty during which large numbers of Americans weren’t willing to blow huge holes in the freedoms of one group or another.

  135. 135.

    jeffreyw

    @J.W. Hamner: Dammit! I skipped right over this. Love the tomato pizza, the other…? Saw something like it on slashfood.com just today. I just can’t go with fruit on a pizza, just ain’t right man.

  137. 137.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Carrie: So sorry for you and your family for your loss.

    @Darkrose: MikeJ adapted cleek’s for Chrome. I use it, and it’s a god-send. I would give it to you if I knew how, but I don’t. Sorry.

    @SIA: I’m not sure on your last point. Franken is one of those, and he barely won in MN.

  139. 139.

    Triassic Sands

    @asiangrrlMN:

    What’s clear is that even though it’s not a mosque and not at ground zero, it will continue to be the ground zero mosque.

    Stupid people have amazing stamina.

    Nothing distinguishes the American Right quite as much as it inability (and unwillingness) to learn the simplest facts.

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