I noticed that one of the big new shiny memes is that Nancy Pelosi is in for the fight of her life to become Minority Leader and that somehow (details as always are fuzzy) President Obama is working behind the scenes to replace her. Now everything thing I read from multiple sources seems to suggest that Speaker Pelosi faces no serious opposition to her effort to continue to lead House Democrats in the 112th Congress. And the last time I looked, there has yet to be a candidate that has stepped forward to challenge her.
Still, that does not prevent the usual suspects from using this as a fresh opportunity to raise money, build email, twitter and facebook lists, and promote the brand of their publications, web sites and individual pundits. That is all good as everybody needs to make a buck. Still, this is a foolish way to make it if one actually care about the things they put in their fundraising and promotional materials.
Sillier yet is the whole fresh meme that President Obama is also a secret Blue Dog. His adversaries must think he is like Batman with a cave filled with strange costumes for every occasion:
Truth is we are just having the same stupid fight again.
It is hard to remember now, but two years ago we had won a great electoral victory. We had the white House and strong majorities in the House and Senate. More than that, most folks believed that the Republicans had not only lost, but that they had been crushed so hard they would never come back.
It wasn’t true.
And it was clear from the beginning to anybody paying attention to current events and history that the progressive agenda was a fragile thing and that speed was the most important driver of success. Obama made a mistake in trying to repair the Legislative branch along with everything else, but the big mistake within the Democratic Party was the idea that now (2009) was the time to also have the long simmering fight between Blue Dogs and Progressives. Both sides wanted it, but I think Progressives wanted it just a bit more. And to make matters worst, both sides decided–or backed into a belief–that the best place for that fight was over Health Care Reform. The focal point of the intra-party was the ‘Public Option’ and that back and forth delayed things just long enough to provided the GOP with lots of great talking points to stall the progressive agenda and the political space for them to get off the floor and punch back. The rest, as they say is history. And somehow it is not a surprise that for those who decided that this fight with Blue Dogs trumped everything else–that Obama is solely to blame for their failure.
And now that the Republicans have taken the House, there are still those who think that we can still afford the indulgence of the intra-party squabble. Really?
The stakes were high in 2009 when the advocates of this battle decided that the fight between Blue Dog and Progressives was more important than the entire Progressive agenda. Sure, the endless fight with Blue Dogs is a great talking point to sell your brand, fluff your blog and/or get on the teevee, but it was and is stupid politics when faced with a well-funded, savvy and immoral Republican opposition.
We have a Democratic Party. In it there are Progressives, moderates and conservatives. If we work together, we will win. If we decide that our intra-party fights are more important than working together, we will loose. It really is that simple. There is more that unites us than divides us. I think we should focus on that and unite because the other side has done that and if we do not stop fluffing this same old stupid intra-party fight, we might as well just give up.
Someday–when the wingnuts are on the run–you can go back to sticking a Blue Dog with a shiv, or punching a hippie. But for now we better relearn how to work together. The real issues are more important that our intra-party fights and we should start acting like that.
Cheers
dengre
RinaX
I keep seeing this same thing posted at DU, and as mentioned in the thread below the “Obama is a Blue Dog” diary over on the GOS has the underlying theme that the Blue Dogs are opposing Pelosi, Obama seems like a Blue Dog, therefore Obama opposes Pelosi!
mikefromArlington
LOL.
I’d like to see Debby Wasserman-Shultz get the role but not right away. Pelosi worked her ass off and deserves the dignity to leave the position on her own terms.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@mikefromArlington: Why does DWS deserve anything?
Mnemosyne
I find it fascinating that the media has been breathlessly reporting on a “letter” circulating among House Democrats supposedly from defeated Blue Dogs saying that Pelosi should not be elected Minority Leader, but not only can they not find anyone who says they signed the letter, they apparently can’t even find a copy of the damn thing.
It’s like the media has started directly ratfucking the Democrats without even waiting for the Republicans to do anything.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
There is more that unites us than divides us.
I have a serious question. What unites Progressives and Blue Dogs? Because there isn’t much, if anything. The whole point of Blue Dogs is to destroy the Democratic Party from the inside out.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@Mnemosyne: Because that’s what the TradMed does. Or don’t you remember the Howard Dean “scream”?
mikefromArlington
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
I think she’s got a good grip on the Democratic agenda and knows how to articulate them well on T.V.
A strong articulate voice would be a plus to counter these Republicans that just spin spin spin while the moderators just smile and continue on. She’s good at sticking it to people and bringing to light what hypocrites they are and why Democratic policies are good.
PanurgeATL
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
I dunno. The point to the Blue Dogs, ISTM, is that they’re Democrats simply because the choices where they live are right-wingnut and not a right-wingnut. If they’re not right-wingnuts, then they join the Dems. What people don’t understand about the Dems is that if they want “bipartisanship”, they need a strong Dem government, because it’s already built in.
Martin
I read that Obama was spending $200M per day to have Pelosi defeated as minority leader. Oh, and he’s dispatched 34 warships to take her out.
AB
@Martin: and 6 armored limousines all containing the recipe for perfect Mojitos, along with 40 planes.
El Cid
On this timeline
I recall more of the delayed timeline of vanishing for an entire summer into the hands of Max Baucus to re-emerge unchanged.
Momentarily fervent as the argument over the PO might have been, I don’t remember it being the factor that so greatly affected the timeline.
Redshift
Ummm… I know it’s the thing around here to blame everything on the firebaggers fighting for the public option which was never ever gonna pass, but as I remember it, the thing that allowed the GOP to get off the floor and punch back was the months and months and months of Baucus negotiating with Republicans who never had any intention of getting on board.
And the only problem with the fight over the public option was characterizing it as a sellout, rather than a fight we lost. I fail to see how contesting to get the things we want enacted is in any way similar to an idiotic leadership battle.
I’m all for doing better in how we tussle out these internal disagreements, but without that, I don’t see what “focusing on what unites us” means, other than agreeing not to push anything another segment of the party disagrees with.
El Cid
Though admittedly I might not be likely to be looking at the sources to find it, I haven’t heard any of this argument that Obama is out to undermine Pelosi.
El Cid
@Redshift: Stereo!
Suck It Up!
@mikefromArlington:
I really like her. If I had my say, her only task would be to go on the Sunday talks shows.
somethingblue
Agreed. In other news, Sarah Palin is a secret loon, and Joe Lieberman is a secret dick.
(Not a private dick, which is different.)
Uloborus
@Redshift:
I agree that Baucus was the delay. God, what a useless maroon, and I am thankful that the rest of congress basically went ‘Thanks, great recommendation, here’s what we’re passing instead.’
But I recall the reason being why the PO is such a bitter issue is the persistent argument that without the PO the HCR package was useless and a sellout to insurance companies. Like PO was the *only* possible reform that meant anything. The venom laid against anyone who did not treat the PO as a hill to die on was extremely caustic, be they government official, pundit, or Joe Obot like myself.
Hawes
I’m halfway to a GBCW diary at DailyKos over the nonsense that Obama’s a Blue Dog and Warner should be primaried for saying that MoveOn doesn’t compromise its beliefs and that makes it hard to compromise.
The circular firing squad is storing up its bullets, clearly. With the GOP threatening to default on the US debt and plunge the world into an economic holocaust, they want to purge Warner and repudiate Obama for insufficient purity.
Thanks for the Moment of Zen, dengre
RalfW
I’ve tended to not be a Pelosi fan, maybe for some unserious reasons.
But in the past 3-4 days, I’ve become pretty convinced that she’s got enough experience, horse-sense, and balls to do the job that’s needed.
And we sure as hell need to keep Steny Hoyer out of the minority leader position.
ItAintEazy
Okay, maybe Obama is not a blue dog, but I still think he’s a Reagan Democrat. Yes, you can point to a number of progressive pieces of legislation passed into law by Obama, but you should also note that, say, Reagan also passed some progressive legislation himself (illegal immigrants amnesty anyone?)
Plus the that historic legislation, the health care bill, was actually a clone of what Bob Dole proposed back in the nineties. Go after me all you want, I’m tired of moving the goalposts of what it means to be “liberal” anymore.
Suck It Up!
Hey Dennis G; this blue dog talk is actually an upgrade. Some months ago, Cenk was on CNN(?) asking ‘who’s more conservative, Reagan or Obama?”
Your post is 100% spot on. I’ve seen a few diaries at Dkos saying pretty much the same thing but its always over taken by comments like “clap louder!”. Just today there was a renewed charge to take down the blue dogs because Mark Warner did the “both sides” thing with MoveOn.org and the tea party. Its just one distraction after another as if people are just too scared to actually take on the right wing.
gwangung
@Redshift: Grumble, brumble….given that we agree on so much, why are we arguing so much?
(Or, wait a minute…were we arguing? The mandatory circular firing squad of election losers makes things so confusing around here….)
gwangung
No, I think you’re tired of OTHER people moving the goalposts.
Would it be better if you’re the one in control?
Hawes
@ItAintEazy: OK, I’ll go after you… In a nice way.
Reagan wanted to shrink the government to a size where it couldn’t do anything. Obama is trying to make government work again for ordinary people.
Yes the HCR was basically the GOP plan from the 1990s, because the Democratic plan from the ’90s was DOA.
Obama’s a pragmatist, ultimately. That’s his ideology. He will do what is possible and what will work. It’s his strength, as he gets things done, but it’s his weakness, since his desire to get things done makes him a mark for those who want to undermine it any way possible.
He’s not a leftist. Never was. Neither was Hillary. Or Biden. Or Edwards.
We’re not going to elect a truly left of center president until a pragmatist can demonstrate to the Great Unwashed that the government is not the problem.
Suck It Up!
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
From reading liberal blogs, I think this is what you have in common with the blue dogs.
Yutsano
@ItAintEazy:
You of course ignore the subtle difference. Dole’s supposed plan never left his desk. Obama got the shit done. And fer crap’s sake stop whining as if that was all that we’re ever gonna get. We now have at least a fucking framework, let’s work on making the shit better.
Hawes
Sorry, going further with this point…
If Obama’s half baked HCR works even half as well as it should, we begin to show tangible evidence that the government can solve problems again. THEN you get a real public option. THEN you get Medicare expanded to cover the non-aged.
Reagan made conservatism palatable to a country that had largely turned from it. Obama is trying to make progressivism palatable to a country that has largely turned from it.
That’s the best comparison with Reagan.
Andy K
So when are we going to get a snarktastic Large-
HardonHadron-Collider-Is-Going-To-Cause-The-Apocalypse-On-Thursday thread?Mnemosyne
@ItAintEazy:
You are using a definition of Reagan Democrat that I do not recognize at all. A Reagan Democrat is a white, blue-collar union voter who voted for Reagan in 1980. WTF brand-new definition have you come up with that fits Obama?
Also, too, you might want to reflect that the health care system we have now is not the health care system we had in 1996. For-profit companies have pretty much taken over, which is the opposite of what the landscape was in 1996 (and 1992, for that matter). The solutions that would have worked 15 years ago are no longer applicable. Here’s an interesting article from 1996 about how the system existed then.
Nellcote
There’s a part in the HC bill that provides for states to set up their own Public Option. Why aren’t Progressives advocating for that in their own states?
cthulhu
I don’t really recall the progressive wing going after the blue dogs as much as just being frustrated for the cover they tended to provide for GOP arguments.
Totally agree Baucus and his little dysfunctional group was a complete delaying waste. But technically aren’t the official Blue Dogs only in the House?
Anyway, given the Dems have been pared down such that the progressives have a plurality, it seems to me that it makes sense for Pelosi to stay. She has been very effective throughout the years. And does anyone really believe anyone else in her position would not have been equally vilified by the opposition? It doesn’t seem reasonable to throw your leader overboard every time they get covered by tar if the tars is ALWAYS going to get thrown. It would be just another example of needlessly ceding some control to the GOP.
cthulhu
@Nellcote: They are (we have been pretty close in CA) but one must consider that, what with the economic climate, states are very busy putting out immediate fires and are a bit hesitant to implement things that might be more costly in the short term despite great savings in the long run.
I was pleasantly surprised that Prop 23 (that tried to float a supposed trade-off between the economy and the environment) went down so hard. You never know with CA props, whether cooler heads will prevail. No pun intended.
Davis X. Machina
@Mnemosyne: In fact the Eastern Massachusetts Caritas (Latin for ‘charity’) system hospitals — formerly the non-profit hospitals of the Archdiocese of Boston, for Christ’s sake, and no pun intended — finished going private and for-profit today.
Dennis G.
@Andy K:
I think it is scheduled for 12-9-2010, but it might get bumped. Stay tuned.
Cheers
Yutsano
@Nellcote:
Most likely because it’s too tough a push to make when so many states are running in the red. A lot of them are actually starting to realize just how foolish a balanced budget amendment can be.
mcd410x
1) People have opinions (oh noes!). 2) They may not agree with yours. 3) Wash, rinse, repeat. Always repeat.
Don’t worry: It’s the same story on sports blogs. You have the people who defend the team no matter what and the people who jump ship at the first sign of trouble. No matter the specifics, it’s the same argument every single day. It’s tired. It’s unoriginal. Sweet Cheezus, get outside the box. Argue the opposite side. Play the joker. Do something. Anything.
If you can’t do that, read Lincoln’s Cooper Union address. It’s a better use of time than corned beef rehash.
arguingwithsignposts
I for one would be glad to sign a petition to get every fucking stupid ass media outlet in DC to spend *one fucking week* without quoting a goddamn anonymous source in their bullshit reports on horseraces and inside political backdoor scheming.
One week, you lazy hacks. Can you bear it?
WyldPirate
Dennis G sez:
Let’s see. Put prosecuting war crimes off the table. Escalated a foolish fucking war in Afghanistan. Went half-ass on the bail-out, caved to Rethugs about tax cuts in the stimulus package. Fucked the UAW labor contracts on the bailout, but a “contract is a contract” when his Wall St. contributors bonuses are paid by TARP dough And this is just a start.
Damn that hound has a bit of a blue tinge to him from where I stand.
Dennis G sez:
And those strong majorities conducted themselves like a bunch of wimps and got punked again and again by the Rethugs, while Dear Leader Obama stood by and twiddled his thumbs while the economy was in the shitter.
Dennis G sez:
OMG. BLASPHEMY!! You criticized he who must not be criticized! WTF, dude. Is Rupert Murdoch paying you to post here? He must have sent you as a mole to take down the spirits of the loyal BJ progressives.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate:
I missed your firegagging trollery in the last thread. Glad to see you kept your game for the new one. That’s some grade A bullshit there.
Mike Kay (Expletive Deleted)
What I don’t get is who are they fighting with, now that the blue dogs have been ousted?
I mean what do they want to do primary Evan Bayh and Blanche Lincoln?
WyldPirate
@Hawes:
Smartest statement I’ve read all day, but this cannot occur until corporate
briberyfinancing of elections is eliminated.Mike Kay (Expletive Deleted)
@ItAintEazy:
Bob Dole never proposed to spend a trillion dollars on health care.
Comrade Kevin
@WyldPirate: and you’re doing your best to prevent what Hawes said from happening, by undermining the best we’re going to get under current conditions.
WyldPirate
@arguingwithsignposts:
And your’s is some weak-ass shit if that’s all you’re bringing.
At least give me some whiny goddamned drama and hand-wringing about hurting morale here and destroying the entire Democratic party–if not the concept of democracy– by a post in the comment sections at 1 AM EST that DARES to criticize Obama.
Puleese. Some of you silly fucks need to get the fuck over yourselves.
themann1086
@RalfW: Whenever my (conservative) dad complains about Pelosi, I just grin and say “Whatever you think of her, she’s 1000 times better than the alternative. Trust me.” He pretty much stopped complaining when I pointed out Steny would be her replacement, and my dad said, paraphrasing “ok, I don’t like Pelosi’s politics, but that man is a tool”.
Redshift
Personally, I think having our troll show up in a thread entitled “Having the stupid fight…again” is just hilarious.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate:
Sorry, Wyld, wasn’t able to comment on your firebagging earlier. Some of us have lives to live outside of the basement.
Could you build those strawmen a little larger, perhaps, because they got knocked down pretty easily in the previous thread (which I did get a chance to scan over, btw – and you were *not* doing well).
If you really want some destroying democracy, we’ve got some weak-ass trolls for your firegagging ass – maketoke_chan, pancake, change, etc. – who can set you straight really quick.
And kick that “dear leader” shit back to greenwald’s blog where it belongs.
WyldPirate
@Comrade Kevin:
Damn. The stupidest comment of the day damn near right on top of the smartest one. Who would of thunk it?
Seriously, you think the arguments in this post between a bunch of fucking insomniacs in the middle of the night are undermining the fate of democracy and the Democratic Party.
Goddamn, but we are some powerful and important motherfuckers here on the nightshift in the BJ comment section.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate:
Well, we were … until you came along adopting your samuel l. jackson tone and all.
Nellcote
@arguingwithsignposts:
They can’t even get through a week without their crackberries.
Nellcote
@cthulhu:
I get that. It just seems a more productive use of time to work on the states rather than keep bitching about a vote that happened (or not) a year ago.
Mnemosyne
@Nellcote:
Firebaggers don’t do “productive.” They prefer to live in the past and bitch about things that already happened than to think about what the next move might be.
WyldPirate is Exhibit A. He’d rather spend all of his time re-fighting the health care battle and the stimulus battle than spend one second thinking about, say, the DADT repeal that isn’t actually dead yet and could still be rescued. But if it does die, suddenly that will be the Biggest. Issue. EVER!
TerraJules
@Mnemosyne:
Is that why he suggested we work on campaign finance reform upthread?
Don’t get me wrong, this dude is behaving like an ass (sorry dude, you are) but I think you’ve imputed the wrong motives to him.
I point this out partly because I happen to agree about CFR. Although I think that it’s the kind of issue where you would get huge popular support if you polled it today, and if you let the right-wing noice machine have at it for a few months it would become some kind of monstrous product of Marxist radicalism so…sigh.
gwangung
Seriously, would a phone effort have affected the outcome?
ruemara
@Nellcote:
Might involve working instead of bitching. Might get your hands all dirty in the process and learn it isn’t as easy as clicking links and filing online petitions.
Karen
Bill Maher may have said that Jon and Steven are making a false equivalency argument but think about it.
Right wing: Obama is a socialist who must be stopped/impeached/killed, etc.
Left wing: Obama is a blue dog who must be stopped/primaried against/destroyed at all costs.
During the 2008 Primary:
Right wing: Obama is a muslim terrorist, he’s “palling around with William Ayers” (Obama is a N)
Left wing: Obama is “unelectable”, he needs to wait his turn (Obama is a N)
No there’s no equivalency at all.
Mnemosyne
@gwangung:
As I am not psychic, I think it’s a little early to say that a phone effort to affect a vote that will happen in the lame duck session after Thanksgiving has already failed.
I know I keep riding this pony, but it’s driving me absolutely fucking nuts that people are busy throwing dirt on top of the DADT repeal when it’s not goddamned dead yet. If they keep doing it, it’s going to die for sure from lack of attention.
Mnemosyne
@TerraJules:
Yep. Because he loves to talk about pie-in-the-sky campaign finance reform instead of, say, the DADT vote that’s coming up before the end of this year.
Saying that we can’t try to do anything until we get comprehensive campaign finance reform is like saying we can’t drive our brand-new car until it’s completely paid off. It’s just another excuse for why he won’t fight for anything that needs to be fought for right now.
cthulhu
@Nellcote: Not that I was disagreeing that states (at least the progressive ones – plenty of the red ones intend on fighting HCR) are where the action will be going forward in the near term. If we can claw back nice majorities in 2012, then some corrections to HCR might be made at the national level.
cthulhu
@Mnemosyne: The press has proclaimed it dead but, as with HCR, the House under Pelosi was surprisingly resilient. Unfortunately, I don’t know if Reid has the stuff (and I drove 300 miles for GOTV to help his sorry ass).
Though more than anything I’d like to see him have the stuff to change the filibuster rules come January…
TerraJules
@Mnemosyne: I don’t think it’s either-or. (And, btw, I don’t think DADT is a pony issue and you shouldn’t have to apologize for it.) I’m just tired–no, exhausted–of losing fights that shouldn’t be losers because the people we send to office have to worry more about filling their bank accounts for the next election cycle and fending off attack ads than doing right by their constituents. And because we can’t send the right people there in the first place. And it’s not just that we’re treading water on this issue, we’re losing ground, and it shows.
I felt kind of silly sticking up for a goofball like Wyld Pirate, but I do think he wants to accomplish things. Probably very much. He just has a different idea about how to go about it (although I agree that being a belligerent jerk certainly isn’t going to accomplish anything).
gwangung
@Mnemosyne: Well, my thought is if people are so hot to post mortem leadership efforts, why can’t we post mortem grassroots efforts—particularly ones where individuals could have contributed (point being that complaining about Dem politicians leaving them high and dry rings hollow if they left said politicians high and dry–top down inspiration is all fine and dandy, but it’s word of mouth and peer to peer efforts that are the most effective in initiating behavior).
BombIranForChrist
And who, pray tell, decides what the “real issues” are? If I am gay, marriage is a “real issue”. Or are “real issues” like “real Americans”? Bullshit code for old white guys getting hard-ons about corn in Central Iowa?
FlipYrWhig
I don’t think the fight over the public option contributed specifically to much of the delay on HCR. Unless you think it was somewhere in the workings of the Baucus talks, or if the Baucus talks were prolonged because the up-in-the-air status of the PO never allowed an alternative to Baucus to crystallize, and thus it wasn’t possible to justify pulling the plug on Baucus because as tedious as it was it might have been the best hope to get something, anything done.
NobodySpecial
@Mnemosyne: I’ll merely point out one of the favorite arguments used against the PO as the reason no one is jumping on the DADT repeal:
Show me the votes for it. It’s already failed once. Show me where the 60 votes are for it’s repeal.
Now you see why people were so goddamned irritated with the anti-‘firebagger’ campaign here on BJ? It mostly started simply because Hamsher got behind the PO, and there’s a core group of people around here who would whip out sunglasses if she said it was midnight. Since then it’s morphed into some kind of boogeyman that ‘centrist’ Dems on this blog whip out when they wanna punch a hippie.
electricgrendel
The other side has not united. They’ve purged their ranks until there is nothing but conservatives left. There are no moderate or liberal Republicans. All of the distractions have been shoved into the Democratic Party because there’s nowhere else for them to reasonably goal. Democrats are on the losing end of a lot of systemic problems, but the greatest one may be the two party system. When the options are to be part of a rabidly conservative party that will never stop pushing to the left, or the other party (and honestly- arguing that Democrats are “progressive, moderate and conservative” and Republics are just conservative doesn’t make Democrats anything beyond “the other party”) then the other party is necessarily fractured. And it always will be because it’s the dumping ground for every official that isn’t batshit insane conservative.
electricgrendel
Bah. “rabidly conservative party that will never stop pushing to the right.” Proof reading and I: sworn enemies. :O
aimai
@gwangung:
After you lose a battle the generals always point their fingers at the troops, and the troops at the generals. Its impossible to say, a priori, which of the two is responsible for a given loss. The same is true for the Dems in this particular election. I come down at the midpoint: the Democrats decided right after the 2008 election on an “insider” strategy that put all the focus on working to get specific votes through congress–they delegitimized and deep sixed all “peer to peer” interactions and attempts to pressure congress by outside/grassroots organizations. That was the stated strategy. They got what they got (which is very good) but they also lost ground with ordinary voters. They also lost grassroots individuals and organizations through which to communicate with voters.
The election was only a snapshot in the rise and fall of the Democrats position in the public eye. I personally think that the dems failed to capitalize on what they actually accomplished legislatively and failed to communicate properly with a disaffected base and centrist/swing voters. By a few months before any specific election people have either made up their minds or are too confused and disaffected to be gotten out to vote. I can’t blame *the voters* for failing to be able to climb the hill of the massive job losses, republican misinformation, and general malaise that seize the country in a recession and a midterm election. The voters are not professional politicians. They don’t understand what they see/hear on the news. If the Dems don’t figure out how to educate and motivate their voters there is nothing the progressive base can do.
aimai
RJ
He should only be referred to as
Baucus the Fool
Nick
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
usually one or two issues
Nick
@NobodySpecial:
No, it mostly started because she teamed up with a fascist to kill the entire bill after she lost the fight for a PO.
debit
@NobodySpecial:
Actually, I’m pretty sure it started when she went running into the arms of Grover Norquist.
ETA: Nick and I are as one.
sparky
this post is, i am sorry to say, a load of revisionist crap.
1. Obama put in place the same people who blew up the economy, and guess what–they gave more taxpayer money to banks who then paid themselves bonuses. result? public anger AND persistent high unemployment.
2. No change except for the worse on civil liberties.
3. Cosmetic reform for the health-insurance complex. Forcing people to buy insurance from for profit companies with a guaranteed rate of return is not reform.
4. Escalation of a hopeless mess in Afghanistan that has the side benefit of destabilizing Pakistan.
5. Utter failure to enact substantive reform of any sector of the economy despite majorities in Congress and the WH.
I could go on but I hope the point is clear: you all can keep yapping about things like the public option as much as you want, but the general public doesn’t follow that inside baseball. It’s not relevant to them and frankly, why should it be given the much larger issues? Obama inherited a mess and in many ways has not changed it or actively made it worse. That’s why the Ds lost. The rest of it is just fantasies to tell yourself so you feel better about the people you put in office rather than looking at their being bought regardless of whatever crap the GOP pulled.
DanF
Ya know Dennis – I’m going to have through a flag on the play. Your post is the FIRST place I’ve seen anyone mention “Obama is trying to push out Pelosi”. None of the front pagers at the GOS are saying it (I’m sure you can find a diary or three), and I searched for it on FDL and am not seeing it. I’m sure someone on DU is flogging it somewhere, but really and come-on …. That’s not equivalent.
I don’t recall progressives picking a fight with the Blue Dogs either. It all seemed to be around the dithering of Baucus and our broken Senate. The bills passed the house largely the way the progressive caucus expected it – some with and some without Blue Dog support.
Blue Dogs did get punished in the election, but that has more to do with where their districts were and less about how they voted or any fight they had with progressives. Now, when a Blue Dog starts running ads about how they’re running against Obama and Pelosi, well, you kinds do have to kick their ass to the curb. No?
debbie
They eat their own.
mds
@Mnemosyne:
Sorry, but I’m kinda sorta with NobodySpecial on this one. Where are the votes? If it couldn’t overcome Republican opposition before, what’s going to make it happen in a lame duck session that will apparently already be more Republican thanks to special elections? Those who have nothing more to lose were mostly in favor of repeal already, though I suppose it’s possible that Lincoln might say “the hell with it” and no longer join a Republican filibuster. But Voinovich was already retiring when he voted to block debate. Meanwhile, Levin has already signaled willingness to toss DADT over the side in order to get President McCain’s support for funding the troops. Yes, I’ll keep after my senators, but since one of them sponsored repeal to begin with, they’re not the ones to worry about. What Republicans are going to cross the aisle on this, and in sufficient numbers to counteract inevitable Democratic defections?
mattH
@ItAintEazy:
Eisenhower Republican.
Nick
@sparky:
which is an outright LIE.
Nick
@mds:
I don’t know, but I’m sure it’ll be Obama’s fault for not using the bully pulpit.
Reid has all 58 Democrats. Lincoln and Pryor voted for it first and changed to no at the last minute. As for Republicans for it? Mark Kirk, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, Lisa Murkowski
Southern Beale
I find it hard to believe Pelosi would have announced she’s running for the post if she didn’t already have the votes locked up.
Plus, with so many Blue Dogs getting the boot, and the progressive caucus now a majority, it just makes sense that Pelosi would have the votes locked up.
cthulhu
@Nick: Except that the Repubs have made a big show up to now regarding stopping everything the Dems want including during the lame duck.
mds
Hmm, that’s weird, since Collins and Snowe already joined in filibustering bringing the defense bill + DADT to the floor for debate, Murkowski missed the cloture vote but declared that she would have supported the filibuster, and Kirk voted against DADT repeal in the House. What’s changed all their minds?
Dennis G.
@WyldPirate:
Your rapier like wit cuts so deep, but I do have a question?
How often do you need to replace your keyboard from the manly ferocity of your angry typing?
Of course if the world would just listen to you –then all would be fine, but they will not and so things will always suck. Your grief that Obama was not the magical negro of your rich fantasy life is very intense and so he gets all your blame. Good luck with that.
Cheers
jl
I am a mere citizen, not a high class public official, or DC insider, or pundit, or blogger, so not sure my contribution to the epic fight made any difference. Wasn’t much to it other than calls to my Congresspeople, signing petitions and making snotty comments on this here miserable lefty blog. and throwing some money to candidates I agreed with.
But, for what it is worth, I did not oppose the compromises that Blue Dogs’ wanted in the Health Care Reform bill because I wanted a fight or showdown.
I thought the Blue Dog compromises would produce a bill that 1) would not work, and 2) would not be popular enough with the public to withstand attacks from interest groups and politicians who opposed reform for selfish short sighted reasons. And I opposed them for those reasons.
So, for me, it was a ‘reality thing’ not a ‘showdown thing’.
The inability to recognize that in some sense, reality is ‘real’ and has consequences seems to pervade the elite class in this country, and I view it as a kind of decadence. This post suggests to me that the problem is creeping into the dirty hippie blogger community.
Bob
Blue Dog Democrats are the equivalent of Rockefeller Republicans. They are the last remnants of a bygone era. If we’re going to win, we need to offer a competing agenda and the Blue Dogs prevented that. Over time, the people would have embraced the public option, true Wall Street reform and stronger banking/credit card protection. Good riddance to those DINOs who lost. Maybe the ones who managed to squeak through can learn a lesson.
Skippy-san
Clive Crook sums up why Pelosi has to go:
It would be wrong to blame Pelosi for the Democratic loss, at least entirely… But it is equally wrong to… absolve her of any responsibility. No speaker or congressional party leader in history has been as thoroughly vilified in advertising from coast to coast as Pelosi has, and her poll numbers reflect that. She became the face of the Democratic Congress in districts where the local members should have been. She became a symbol of the kind of coastal liberalism that the South, the Border South, the Midwest and the Heartlands rejected.
To get Democrats in the majority again-those are the regions that need persuading. Downtown San Fran is safe for some time to come.