Everything Mistermix said about Jon Tester can probably be said about Jim Webb in Virginia, who has announced he will not seek re-election. The possibility that George Allen might be the next Senator from Virginia just increased greatly.
Webb Out
This post is in: Election 2012
Culture of Truth
George Allen was publicly humiliated. What does it take to make these people go away?
Scott
Webb is out already? Didn’t he just get elected?
nevsky42
If Allen makes it past the Repub primary, which is not a given.
Who now? Terry McAuliffe? Brian Moran? Tom Perriello? Let the speculation run rampant!
Senator Perriello…I like the way that sounds.
NobodySpecial
No defender of weak Dems has yet explained how simply electing weak Dems who spurn ‘leftist’ ideas and vote conservatively leads to electing better Dems down the road.
Instead, the thinking seems to run like this:
Step 1: Elect Blue Dog
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Elect actual liberal!
Of course, the key is that Step 2 never ever ever happens.
Will
God this is upsetting. One and done, Webb? WTF? I think he would have had a real shot against Allen. He’s still remembered pretty poisonously.
Just Some Fuckhead
Yeah, no doubt we’ll wind up with some Republican or another, a predictable backlash to the left’s overreach.
Alex S.
Not good… maybe Tim Kaine can replace him.
Dave
Yay for Progressive Purity!! Now a real progressive can get the Dem nomination. Sure, they’ll lose hard in the election but at least we can feel good about ourselves.
EconWatcher
This is a shame. I was proud to have Webb as my senator.
Presumably Tim Kaine will now be the nominee. I don’t like his chances as well as Webb’s.
Webb has a certain “paleo” and Scotts-Irish veneer that helps him in the mountainous areas of the state. Kaine is a lot easier to paint as a pointy-headed liberal.
Punchy
He’s going back in the private $$$$ector. Military contracting, methinks.
Allen is a shoe-in.
Violet
But the election is 2012, right? That’s a Presidential year. That could change the equation some.
mistermix
I’m looking forward to Webb’s account of the jackasses and prima donnas that he had to deal with in the Senate.
David Fud
What is with these gadflies anyway? For a while there, I thought the natural order of things was to have a nice fat D majority, given the bat-shit insanity of the Rs.
However, it seems that there’s never quite enough of them no matter how many of them that there are. I now find it hard to care about how many Ds there are in the senate so long as it is 50 or so.
One-and-done. What a deal. Seems like he was running to make a point and then had a chance to make a point. Where did that guy go?
Kryptik
So…one step closer to a Republican filibuster-proof majority in the Senate? Yaaaay. :/
gene108
@NobodySpecial:
Step 2 = convince public liberal policies are good, therefore people running on liberal policies will get elected.
Right now the Professional Left is too interested in attacking dissenters within the Democratic Party, rather than pushing an agenda and making Americans agree with it.
Embracing in liberal policies, right now, is a ticket to electoral disaster for many elected officials. It’s not their fault they run away from liberal policies.
Wouldn’t you run away from something, if embracing it would cost you your job? Can you blame somebody for not wanting to get laid off?
Until people can run on a single-payer for all platform and get elected, don’t blame them for not tilting more to the left.
NobodySpecial
@gene108: How do you convince the public in a given district that liberal policies are good if the Democrat you elect there won’t defend them or articulate them, but instead spends his time articulating the other party’s policies as good ideas?
EDIT – given that Webb will make a LOT more in the private sector than the public one, exactly what is he giving up besides face time by quitting?
Culture of Truth
Yeah I wonder if Webbb is restless in the Senate, maybe thinking about something more suited to his personality, like Sec. of Defense.
Kryptik
@gene108:
But here we have a distinct problem where many who did run away from liberal positions (some as fast as possible) in order to preserve their jobs lost them anyway. Many of us, hardly the ‘professional left’ realize there’s a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ situation for many Dems. My take on the matter is that for most of them, you’re gonna be painted as a dirty fucking hippie no matter how hard to the right you try and cant. So if your politics are really that malleable, why not go full bore and actually stand for something rather than bending at first glance of Republican opposition?
Legalize
No doubt Webb was just overwhelmed by the bitter partisanship he experienced in the Senate. Now he can retire from public service and spend his golden years doing something that gives him the warm and fuzzies, plus he can avoid all that nasty bickering in Washington – you know, working as military contracting lobbyist.
NobodySpecial
@Kryptik: I can answer that.
The answer is that for the professional critic of the professional left, there is no hill to die on. Ever.
Suffern ACE
@NobodySpecial: Blue dogs will vote for “blue causes” when blue causes become “uncontroversial.” Step 2-?? are changes in the public sphere where blue dogs don’t feel like they’ll be punished by their voters for supporting things. It’s also the area where liberals fall down miserably most of the time because it involves the long game and also the institutional weakness that comes from not having control of the media, a poor policy “think tank” establishment, opinion writers who are based heavily in the Northeast and frankly disdain the unwashed masses as much as any conservative, and the fact that lobbying for business or joining a PE firm is just so lucrative.
Jay
@EconWatcher:
“Kaine is a lot easier to paint as a pointy-headed liberal.”
I’m not so sure. He was a missionary for a time, which means conservative “religious” voters will at least give him a look.
And doesn’t Webb’s departure mean the Dems will now run an especially aggressive campaign in MA in their effort to break even?
Bay Staters, say hello to candidate Vicki Kennedy.
Kryptik
@Suffern ACE:
But again, they don’t exactly help when they actively subvert all efforts to make such ‘blue causes’ uncontroversial by enabling and lauding all the ‘red causes’ while shitting on the ‘blue causes’.
stuckinred
Webb was, is, and will be a jerk. Fuck him.
Mike in NC
@Culture of Truth:
A stake through the heart? Lots of garlic? George Allen is every bit as big an empty suit as Rick Santorum. He was a terrible governor and would be an even worse senator. Was happy to vote against him when I could. Webb’s skin is too damn thin for his own good.
amk
paging markos and jane. Now is your chance to put your money and shine. Good luck and all that.
kindness
@Culture of Truth: More like some 6 or 7 figure lobbying job.
NobodySpecial
@Kryptik: As usual, Nothing Can Be Done.
Hunter Gathers
@David Fud:
He never existed. All he wanted was the increased celebrity. He doesn’t do anything, other than bitch about how bad rural Scots-Irish in Appalachia have it. You’d think that he would introduce legislation to help them, but that would entail actual action, and that would cut down the amount of time he spends doing nothing. At least he’ll have more of an opportunity to write crappy war novels.
Elizabelle
Tim Kaine or Tom Perriello would be my first guesses/choices.
Kaine’s father in law is Linwood Holton, moderate Republican governor who was popular in his time. Tim is very smart and empathetic and connects well. He was mayor of Richmond.
Perriello is a smart young voice for healthcare reform and other bread and butter issues.
Suspect either would be competitive.
Race is George Allen’s to lose, being Virginia.
And recall: Virginia elected crazy ass Ken Cuccinelli to Attorney General and not moderate Bob McDonnell governor.
Maybe there’s enough buyer’s remorse?
Northern Virginia is purple/blue.
ET
I would say I was glad that I wouldn’t have this moron represent me but I live in DC and the subcommittee that oversees the DC budget won’t let our Delegate or locals testify about how the monies that DC collects are spent.
Elizabelle
@Hunter Gathers:
Don’t agree. There’s a lot more to Jim Webb.
He has a young family and might be sick of the poisonous climate in the Senate.
What would be my fantasy: JOHN WARNER coming back and running on the Democratic ticket.
Yes, he deserves his retirement, but he was a great Senator and a grown up.
Allison Wonderland
Yes, clearly Webb is retiring because the far left hurt his fee-fee’s. Bad far left, bad far left.
The Moar You Know
Voting for Blue Dogs is a waste of time and money. Purity, not victory, is the prize. Look at how well it has served the teabaggers, with their stellar 1 for 4 record.
Keep fucking that chicken.
Maoism is the new black.
Kryptik
@Allison Wonderland:
Unfortunately, I see that becoming the conventional wisdom soon. “Why are those ubiquitous far left hippies so fucking hateful, why can’t they all just die and make America better by going away?! See how they run off good people for their ideological facism?! Why can’t we just kill them all and make America clean again!?”
stuckinred
@Elizabelle: “Kerry and Webb are decorated Vietnam veterans, but they would hardly be described as close friends. Webb has said he refused for 20 years to shake hands with Kerry because of Kerry’s outspoken criticism of the war after his return from Vietnam and his alignment with the antiwar movement.” Like I said, fuck him.
Kryptik
@The Moar You Know:
Oh, fuckin’ please. The Teabaggers might not have won most of their explicit elections, but they didn’t need to. They fuckin’ run the whole GOP at this point.
trollhattan
Yee-haw, time to print up a batch of “macaca” tshirts?
Ruining the country, one state at a time.
DecidedFenceSitter
As a Novite – I’m going with Kaine – popular governor, ballet with presumably Obama on the ballot, and he knows how to throw an elbow or two.
matoko_chan
i think this is waaaaaay more interesting.
Has Peak Oil already peaked?
props, my Hero Julian Assange.
Inshallah those False Commanders of the Faithful, the Saud princes, will live to deeply and profoundly regret the shaitan bargain they struck with the West.
;)
stuckinred
@matoko_chan: sup knuckle head?
FlipYrWhig
@Kryptik:
But you’re assuming that conservative Democrats are conservative solely because they think that’s how to get re-elected. Some of them actually believe it. They vote and stand for what they genuinely think. And it’s not liberal.
somethingblue
@NobodySpecial:
On the contrary. The Democratic Party expends most of its time and energy on step 2.
Jablowski
No fan of Webb – he’s struck me as a preening prima donna – but George Allen is loathsome.
Davis X. Machina
Cuccicinelli runs, wins primary. Spite independent run by Allen — or the other way round.
Seat stays Democratic. Virginia is just that much bluer than Alaska.
I think in time the CT ’06 Senate race will turn out to have been a harbinger of the future, and three-cornered Senate races will become less of an anomaly.
Hunter Gathers
@Elizabelle: Hating the place you work at is one thing. Making it easier for George Fucking Allen to replace you is another.
Texas Dem
You can hardly blame Webb for wanting out. The Senate is a highly dysfunctional and increasingly partisan institution, and takes a very, very long time to work your way up to a committee chair, where you have some real clout. Webb was never built for that kind of political grind. Once he found out how truly awful the place was, he ran for the door. Can’t say I blame him.
Paul in KY
@stuckinred: But he was ‘our’ jerk. The jerk that held a Senate seat for us in Virginia.
stuckinred
@Texas Dem: He was the goddamn secretary of the Navy, he knew what the score was goin in.
stuckinred
@Paul in KY: for you maybe
gwangung
Ya know, spending most of your time screaming at folks for electing Blue Dogs is kinda missing the point. More productive to creating conditions that allow a more progressive candidate to win.
In the meantime, Blue Dogs voting with you 60% of the time is better than Republicans voting against you 100%.
The Moar You Know
@matoko_chan: Sadly, no. They’ll be dead and rotting in Jahannam. It’s their children and their grandchildren who will be chased out of their marble palaces and staked and burned by angry mobs when the oil money runs out.
Overpopulated, with no other resources, no ability to grow food, no water and no future. The Middle East by the end of this century will truly be hell on earth.
gene108
@NobodySpecial:
How did modern conservatism gain the clout it did, when the #2 vote getter in the 1980 Republican Presidential Primary, George Bush, Sr. dubbed his opponent, the #1 vote getter and Presidential nominee, Ronald Reagan’s economic policy as “voodoo economics”?
There wasn’t broad support for Reaganomics, especially after the 1982 drubbing Republicans absorbed in the mid-terms. Many Northeastern Republicans didn’t embrace the Southern evangelism, which Reagan gave a seat to at the Republican table, by giving the movements of folks like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson created a seat at the Republican table.
Yet the economic forces of supply-siders, tax-cutting nut cases like Grover Norquist and religious fundamentalists have taken over the Republican Party.
How did they do it? Can Liberals do the same thing in the Democratic Party?
The change in the Republican Party post-Reagan didn’t happen overnight. It took a lot of dedicated work by the forces, who now run the Party.
Paul in KY
@stuckinred: I just would rather have that son of a bitch in there than George fucking Allen, that’s all.
Understand your distaste for him. He pissed me off alot back when he was in Reagan’s cabinet.
IM
@Texas Dem:
I think frustation about the lacking power of a junior senator was a motive.
matoko_chan
@stuckinred: not much, i just ruined eugene volokh’s day, and i dropped in here for a lil’ cudlip hazing.
the twilight of the american empire….can you taste it stuckin?
hahahahaha
Paul in KY
@The Moar You Know: I wish I would get to live to see that (the chasing out of marble palaces, and staked, etc.).
Sigh…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elizabelle:
“great”? From what I’ve seen, I’d be willing to go as far as “could have been worse”, and likely would have been if people like Nelson and Lincoln and Bayh weren’t throwing the monkey wrenches into the works so that he didn’t have to. If there is an issue or a piece of legislation that was significantly advanced by Jim Webb in the last five years, I didn’t hear of it.
Texas Dem
@Davis X. Machina: I hope you’re right, but recent events suggest the race is Allen’s to lose. And it’s far from clear whether Obama will be re-electable in 2012, given a likely unemployment rate of over 8 percent. Moreover, if we have undivided GOP control in 2013,anyone care to lay odds on how long it will take the GOP to do away with the filibuster so they can repeal Obamacare, since there’s no way (even under the most optimistic projections) that they’ll get anywhere close to 60 seats? Then again, I have a relatively secure government job (no layoffs at my department), no children, and very little debt, so I can afford to be cynical about these things.
stuckinred
@matoko_chan: Don’t mean nuthin to me either way.
Ron
I don’t think the idea behind electing somewhat conservative democrats is to miraculously turn it into electing progressives. I think the idea is that the conservative democrats are still miles better than the crazy GOP alternatives.
Allan
Weigel notes that a November 2010 poll showed Kaine performing better against Allen than Webb. This is far from over for the Democrats.
matoko_chan
@The Moar You Know: yup. MENA will become a monster reaver factory focused on revenge against the west in general and america in particular.
less see….according to social network theory Iraq alone created at least 109000^2 revenge motivated potential jihadis, considering negative influence propagation along both social and bloodkinship connections.
Gonna be hell on earth for Our Crazy Ex-GF Israel too, isnt it?
muwahahaha!
stuckinred
@Paul in KY: Yea, I take some shit personally.
trollhattan
Regardless of what anybody thinks of Webb, a glance at the ’06 results shows him barely eking a win over Macaca George: 49.6% to 49.2%. Could anytbody else have won? He surely wouldn’t have, had George kept his trap shut that night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Virginia,_2006
I haven’t a clue what might keep that seat Democratic–but a lot will have to happen between now and November ’12 to make it even vaguely possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Virginia,_2006
catclub
@Elizabelle: Isn’t John Warner about 90 years old?
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: New GI Bill and some efforts at prison reform, IIRC.
trollhattan
[apologies for the repeated link–no edit option to delete it. FYWP]
matoko_chan
@stuckinred: of course not. you’re old. it will last your time.
IM
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes, but if we remember how the senate worked in the last five years and one of his goals was prison reform – can we really blame him?
Woodrowfan
that sucks
stuckinred
@matoko_chan: Ha! Just finished my daily mile swim!
matoko_chan
@The Moar You Know: oh yeah.
link.
i allus link.
Texas Dem
@stuckinred: There’s a world of difference between a high ranking executive position, where you have a large department to run and the buck basically stops at your desk, and being 1 out of a 100. Especially when antiquated seniority rules mean that you’ll probably have to wait until you’re old and feeble before you can get some real power.
FlipYrWhig
@NobodySpecial:
Is that what the thinking is? I thought the thinking was that there are many, many places on the map where the “actual liberal” has no chance in hell at ever being elected. So you push at the leftmost bound the electorate will bear. Sometimes that means a prickly populist like Webb or Tester, which is better than a smiley big-money shill like Baucus or Bayh. But that’s the divide, IMHO: when you’re dealing with trying to elect Democrats in outposts that aren’t amenable to the “actual liberal,” do you opt for the DLC/pro-business kind or the populist kind? Because the Crusading Liberal Of Our Dreams isn’t on the table.
rikyrah
What a punk
stuckinred
@Texas Dem: That doesn’t mean he didn’t know what the senate was. You act like he just fell off the turnip truck when he’s been a beltway bandit all along.
Town
The only way George Allen wins the GOP primary is if the Tea Party and the Crazies split the vote, letting him slide in.
George Allen is the new Jim Gilmore.
Tim Kaine already won statewide office, as he was the last Democratic governor who left in 2009, so it would not be impossible for him to win again, ESPECIALLY with Obama on the ballot, him being the former mayor of Richmond, being tight with Obama. I think he’d be very popular in the 95/64 crescent which is where most of the Democratic vote and most of the population growth in VA is to begin with.
Whoever is the Democratic nominee MUST appeal to the people in Northern Virginia, which is the bluest part of the state and the fastest part of the state. Creigh Deeds did NOT appeal to people in NoVa and did NOT appeal to black people and IGNORED people’s advice to him, choosing to run away from Obama and play up his hillbilly roots and he got slammed at the polls. Even NORTHERN BLUE VIRGINIA voted for McDonnell overwhemingly. That’s really sad.
Webb pissed a lot of black people off claiming that affirmative action was the reason white people were unemployed. Naw, son, that ain’t gonna fly, especially when black unemployment is TWICE that of white unemployment and less than 1% of state contracts goes to black owned businesses. So the black support for him would have been iffy—it would have been more of a “hold your nose” type of situation.
No more Democratic candidates from Appalachia or Wrong Turn, VA. Get somebody who appeals to Northern Virginia and can turn out the black and hispanic vote and that Senate seat will stay blue.
acallidryas
Webb’s not gonna be my best friend or anything, and he certainly pissed me off about climate change a lot, but I’ve worked with him and his office and I do have some respect for the guy. He’s always struck me as someone who does have some core beliefs, and he and his office have always been very willing to listen to constituents, and receptive to new information. And he’s been a D vote when it counts-he’s no Ben Nelson is what I’m saying. Heck, I kinda like him better than Mark Warner.
And for those saying he doesn’t do anything, he’s actually been super out-front on prison reform issues, and was trying to raise the visibility of the problems of our prison system. It’s just too bad nobody at all cares.
Anyway, here’s hoping we can get a stronger Dem in there, but I am sad to see him go. And I’m nervous about Virginia’s chances of staying blue.
stuckinred
@acallidryas: Yea, he’s got some core beliefs like the Vietnam War was a noble cause fucked up by the media and pussy politicians and those of us who stood up when we came home owe HIM a fucking apology. Fuck him thrice!
stuckinred
Yea, he’s got some core beliefs like the Vietnam War was a noble cause fucked up by the media and pussy politicians and those of us who stood up when we came home owe HIM a fucking apology.
stuckinred
fuck your moderation
eemom
Kaine has already said he won’t run.
This really sucks. I like Jim Webb; I seriously believe he’s a man of principle. That’s why he ran in the first place. And probably why he can’t wait to get the hell out of there.
Texas Dem
@stuckinred: Of course he knew about the Senate, and he probably knew what a mess it was. But you gain far more insight from being inside a decaying institution rather than being on the outside looking in. And then there’s the fact that he was facing a very tough reelection in a state that’s trending red, which would have required raising a hell of a lot of money. Not everyone is cut out for that.
kdaug
@mistermix: Think the phrase is “Perfumed Princes” (h/t Colonel Hackworth, RIP)
eemom
@acallidryas:
Exactly.
But, you know, Hamsher and Greenwald are fucking heroes because they won’t stop talking about Bradley Manning.
Texas Dem
On the plus side, Webb is a gifted writer and not afraid to step on toes, so the book on his senate career (I’m assuming he’ll probably write one) should be well worth reading.
Texas Dem
@eemom: As much as I hate to add to the level of cynicism around here, no one is going to give a rat’s ass about prison conditions in this county until a hell of a lot more white, Christian, middle class white folks are locked up and experience those hellish conditions for themselves. Or until things get so bad that it starts to affect the country’s international reputation and gets in the way of our imperial foreign policy.
My experience from practicing law, by the way, was that Republicans tended to turn liberal very quickly when they realized their precious Jane or Johnny was going to be facing an extended stay at the Gladiator Farm, or the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as it’s otherwise known.
stuckinred
@kdaug: Fuckin A
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I confess I didn’t know that Webb was working on prison reform, but I still maintain that this does not put him in the pantheon of “great” Senators.
A lot of this is ideological. Jim Webb is an ex (?) Reagan Republican who ran as a Democrat because he was mad at George W. Bush about Iraq. That’s great, and I wish a lot more people from the right to the Broderist/DLC ‘center’ had been able to look past party labels to call wrong wrong and stupid stupid. The chances that he and I would ever agree on issues like the budget or health care were always pretty small. If I lived in VA, I would’ve voted for Webb next year; in a close race, he might even have managed to get some money from me. But I reserve the right to express my impotent frustration about Blue Dogs on political web sites.
As someone said upthread, what a lot of progressives overlook or choose to ignore is that Blue Dogs actually believe the things we think are stupid. Dianne Feinstein wasn’t looking to curry favor with anyone when she looked down from her pile of defense-contract-created wealth and worried that extending unemployment benefits would lead to a lazy, discontented rabble instead of a thrifty working class. She’s old, small-minded, socially insulated, incredibly rich and has been told for at least twenty years, by everyone she thinks matters, that she’s a Very Serious Grown Up because she’s always pro-war and pro-taxcut.
Triassic Sands
Another lesser evil throws in the towel.
@Texas Dem:
Funny, but in 2006 Webb won and then Obama won in Virginia in 2008 and it was supposed to be a sign the state was trending blue. Fickle, fickle, fickle.
Sentient Puddle
The last polling I saw showed Kaine with a rather comfortable lead over Allen and any other potential Republican challengers. As much as I’d love a Senator Perriello, polling for him wasn’t as strong (still very competitive, but Kaine did very noticeably better).
eemom
@Texas Dem:
I agree. In other words, never.
WarMunchkin
I think it may have been this blog(?) that brought up about how Webb became a Democrat because he was sick of the Republican party being beholden to Wall Street, and then when he became a Democrat, he discovered there was no difference.
Kryptik
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
But on the other side of the coin, said Blue Dogs’ fortunes are always going to be inextricably connected to the fortunes of the Democratic Party. This past election kind of proved that point. However, many went out of their way to buck and even campaign against their own party. Which is going far and beyond the usual ‘respectful differences’ in ideology.
And then you also have assholes like Lieberman, who’ve generally made a career out of blatant undermining of the party for personal political gain.
Yutsano
@Sentient Puddle: Just my preference, but I’d go for new blood over old in this instance. Plus Perriello is a lot like Kaine, so it’d be a pretty good pick regardless. Add in Obama election year and me likes the odds.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I should add: I have a lot more respect for someone like Webb, who leaves the GOP in name if not completely in spirt than those like Snowe, Collins, to some extent Lugar and Hagel and even Chaffee, who cling to the party label even when they pretty obviously disagree with (and I suspect despise) what the party has become.
Kryptik
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
See, my issue isn’t that they cling to the party label. It’s the fact that, when push comes to shove, they rarely vote their conscience, instead joining in to ensure a monolithic GOP bloc.
ericblair
@Town:
Deeds was a Democrat pretending to be a Republican, and McDonnell was a Republican pretending to be a Democrat (at least in NoVa). The fake Democrat won. Then we got him and Cuckoo Cuccinelli. Yay for us.
I don’t know how things look for 2012; I’m doubtful that off-year 2010 election will have much predictive value. I can tell you that Dems who try to win downstate Virginia by pissing off NoVa don’t stand much of a chance.
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “in the pantheon of “great” Senators”
I think you misread Elizabelle. She wanted John Warner to come out of retirement and switch to democrat – he was the ‘great’ one. Am I correct Elizabelle?
I pointed out that Warner appears to be 90 years old. He is actually only 83, but looks 90.
Pangloss
Meanwhile, on the GOP side, Joe Wilson is leading Lindsey Graham in early polling for the 2014 South Carolina GOP primary, according to GOS. Hooray for the Purity decade!
eemom
@Yutsano:
it’s nice to hear an optimistic perspective. But there are an awful lot of deeply stupid people in this state.
Even hip northern Virginia ain’t all ponies and unicorns. The further out in the suburbs, the deeper the stoopid.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@catclub: D’oh! my apologies to Elizabelle. I actually agree with that. I’ve always suspected that John Warner decided to retire when McCain and Graham pulled the rug out from under him when Warner was trying to stop the Military Commissions Act.
James E. Powell
@Dave:
Sure, they’ll lose hard in the election but at least we can feel good about ourselves.
It isn’t a matter of left/liberal people feeling good about themselves. Rather, it is a demand that the candidates will make left/liberal arguments, that those arguments will be put forth by people who believe them and intend to govern in accordance with them.
What we have are members of our party, hell a whole wing of our party, who are reliable allies of our opposition, who are public critics of our party’s mainstream programs and ideals, and who are invited to appear on talking head shows to represent all of use even though they do not represent more than a handful of us.
We Democrats have been accommodating to the right-wing members of our party for thirty years. More than that, we have had to kiss their rings and promise not to hurt their feelings. How has that worked out?
I guess at least we can feel that our cynicism is justified.
ericblair
Yep, it’s pretty much blue-purple-red as you increase in distance from DC. The closer in you get, the more people are from elsewhere moving here for jobs, and the more people feel like they really belong to metro DC and not to Virginia. Moving to Maryland or DC wouldn’t really be much of a change, but moving to somewhere else in VA would be.
For day-to-day stuff, the federal government as an institution and local governments seem much more important than the state. Virginia to NOVA basically means the car tax and VDOT not clearing the snow and that’s about the end of it.
nevsky42
@Sentient Puddle: I think part of that had to do with Perriello’s lack of name recognition statewide, which he would quickly make up if he were the nominee. He was a tireless campaigner in our district and severely overperformed in VA-5 despite the political climate at the time.
All the same, Kaine should probably beat Allen handily too. I’m not sure why there’s so much concern about Felix, actually, the Repubs are a whole different beast from six years ago and quite a few teabaggers are going to stay home if he’s the nom.
And it’s not like he was a particularly impressive Senator who made one horrible gaffe, the Macaca business pretty much underscored what a lightweight he was all along.
Elizabelle
@eemom:
Hadn’t been following that. Link please — curious if Kaine left wiggle room.
Elizabelle
@catclub:
Yup, was referring to John Warner as a great senator.
Only 83? Would have guessed 92! But he’s got moral authority lacking in a lot of present day GOP. John Warner fought back against the Oliver North wing of the Virginia GOP.
NickM
Damn. Although I wasn’t always in agreement with Webb’s votes, he seemed to be a principled man and also seemed to have his eye on the ball (that is, what we can do to buoy the eroding middle class) most of the time. And I agree that we’re probably going to get, if not the odious Sen. Macaca, then someone of that calibre (Sen. Cuccinelli?)
Redshift
Geez, there are a lot of people making declarations about Webb who seem to know nothing about him.
Webb is a decent legislator. (GI Bill, prison reform, etc., not bad for a freshman senator, contra those who say he “did nothing.”) I like a lot of what he did, and periodically he does something to really piss me off, so I’ll never love him as a senator. But the reason he’s a good senator is that he thinks things over and does what he thinks is right (except when the Scots-Irish obsession gets in the way), and I can respect that even if I don’t agree with him. Congress was a much better place when there were more thoughtful people I could respectfully disagree with.
He’s not running again because he hates fundraising, campaigning, and glad-handing generally, and always has. He’s a good legislator, but a terrible candidate, and he got lucky last time. If it looked like a shoo-in, he might have run again, but not a hard-fought campaign that would involve spending months doing all the things he hates about being a politician, with a good chance that he still wouldn’t be good enough to win.
I doubt he’s going to a defense contractor and I’m absolutely certain he’s not going into lobbying (that whole “hates glad-handing”, remember?) An administration position is possible, but not likely, since doesn’t toe the party line and they wouldn’t reward him for bailing on the Dems. He was a successful author before he was a senator; he’s not a career politician who’s looking to cash in. I expect he’ll go back to that.
passerby
@mistermix:
Second this.
Webb’s a writer. As for his one and done stance, he may have entered the US Senate for all the right reasons–rule of law, unlawful invasion of a sovereign country, belief in diplomacy, support for US Veterans, etc.–but, he found out quickly that personal integrity and honor are not qualities commonly found in the halls of Capitol Hill.
I’m hoping he’ll write about what a snake-pit it is.
ETA: And name names.
stuckinred
The Wall
Jim, Foolish Literalist
from TPM:
jak
@Redshift:
Good comments. That is a description of the Webb I know.
Judas Escargot
@Punchy:
With his resume (former Sec. Navy) and contacts, Lockheed/Boeing/Raytheon/etc are sure to be keeping seats warm for him (either CEO or Board of Directors).
If that’s what he wants, that is.
rickstersherpa
That Senator Webb was not Bernie Sanders is not to be disputed, but he has been a solid Democratic Senator who helped get landmark bill for Veterans passed in the Webb GI Bill, a bill that provides more support and assistance to middle class and working people than almost anything Congress has past the last 20 years with the exception of the (yes its imperfect) Affordable Health Care Act. http://www.newgibill.org/ He also supported the imperfect (but still hated by our banking masters)Dodds-Franks Financial Reform Act of 2010. Somehow, I don’t think Bernie Sanders could have gotten elected in Virginia, or West Virginia, or Pennsylvania.
Maybe in some alternate Universe the Socialist Party did evolve into a great American political party after the 1912 election. Maybe the Progressive Party would have out polled the Democrats in 1912 and put TR into the Presidency, but it did not happen. Most Progressives, with TR drifted back to the Republicans. Then came the Bolshevik Revolution, splitting the Socialist movement into all sorts of splinters and permanently tainting it as the work of foreign devils. And we do a poor job of going around to people who don’t share our opinions and trying to win them over.
eemom
@Redshift:
yup. Every word of that is true.
Nice to see that perhaps I’m not the only one around here who objects to people making declarations about matters of which they know nothing.
stuckinred
@eemom: Whoop-tee-dooo.
catclub
@stuckinred: “values for which our countrymen fought and died.”
Protecting the pilonidal cysts on the asses of wealthy Missouri born cowards?
stuckinred
@catclub: And Newt,Cheney, and all the rest of those fuckers.
eemom
@stuckinred:
huh? What crawled up your ass?
stuckinred
@eemom: I don’t like the mothefucker and never have and I know plenty about him.
eemom
@stuckinred:
Does that all relate to Vietnam? What else besides the memorial?
You aren’t willing to give him credit for having evolved over the years?
Just asking.
stuckinred
@eemom: Yes and nope. 20 years ago when I went to the Wall it was all “we were together then and together now. Some of us protested some of us didn’t”. Then came Bush v Kerry and the shit went right back to way it was in 1968.
Here’s Webb
Glen Tomkins
“The possibility that George Allen might be the next Senator from Virginia just increased greatly.”
If you start from a low enough probability, I guess even the slightest move in your favor increases your chances greatly. But I wouldn’t concede the truth of the quote in any way but this very modest claim that Allen’s very poor chances just got marginally less poor.
First he has to get past the teabaggers. Sure, he can always fake right. He even starts from a position of not having to go too far to fake the craziest positions he could be called on in order to win over the baggers. The problem with Allen faking even a little, is that he is a profoundly stupid person.
I don’t mean by this that he is factually challenged, or that he lacks the curiousity of basic public policy issues that might prompt a remediation of that knowledge deficit, or even that he doesn’t seem very skilled at thinking. He is all three of these things, but so are many quite successful politicians.
You can overcome, and even turn stupidity to your political advantage, if only you don’t add to it delusions of competence. Allen is probably not as stupid in any of the three categories listed as Reagan. But Reagan recognized his limits and took direction well. Most politicians are not so clear a case as Reagan, being neither as factually and mentally challenged, nor as willing to and skilled at taking direction to compensate. The more usual adaptation involves being very bland and non-committal in all public statements, aside from carefully thought out and rehearsed talking points.
The most striking thing about the Macaca Moment video is not the stupid insult itself, but the completely unjustified self-confidence with which Allen goes very non-bland and off-the-cuff — in full knowledge that he is being filmed by a Webb tracker. It’s like the Dan Quayle potatoe moment, only about race instead of orthography.
Allen has too much unjustified self-esteem to pull the ideological maneuvering he would need to do to sell himself to the baggers in the primary, then cut back towards the middle for the general. Allen is going to be much less skilled at doing this without letting his true, ever superior, positions get in the way, than the average only mildly stupid R politician. The Rs would be much better served by putting up a run of the mill, bland hack, and hoping for a bad economy to pull down Obama and the Ds to the point that their guy doesn’t get much scrutiny. Another Reagan would be gravy. But they can’t win with the anti-Reagan, an idiot who is convinced that he’s the smartest guy in any room.
Michael
@eemom:
The sine qua non of 60s identity politics, that being the longlasting war crime otherwise known as Vietnam. The poster to whom you refer is otherwise a decent sort, but mention Vietnam, and one must then genuflect before any self-proclaimed vet (particularly anybody who mentions a connection with the remarkably ineffective VVAW) in advance of fellating him.
stuckinred
@Michael: Well pal I was in the VVAW and I disagree with you. You want my 214?
4jkb4ia
In general–
“Jim Webb is as good as it is going to get in Virginia” might be true if I knew more about whether Perriello was a viable candidate.
Allen’s chances got better? Sure. He is not running against the incumbent now.
In specific–
Webb supported the DREAM Act. This is a matter of one google.
(John is helping me imnensely today. I’m not mad at him.)
Michael
@stuckinred:
Not really. It isn’t that I disbelieve you, its just that I don’t give a shit.
Frankly, it makes me a little weepy to know that hippies didn’t really spit on soldiers returning from combat in Vietnam. Given all the whining and huge sense of entitlement these past 40 years, I’d have hoped that there would have been at least some little price paid by all you heroes.
stuckinred
If you don’t give a shit why are you running your mouth? You are making no sense. People in the VVAW didn’t whine about being spit on and certainly didn’t project and sense of heroics. We were Against it, that’s what the A stood for.
4jkb4ia
The Swingnuts are excited about Perriello running. He is not really known statewide but he got 47% in a district that is more conservative than the state and he will campaign his butt off.
Also, (too) we have the following wisdom from DCCyclone, who is in VA-10–
And SSP, my completely reliable happy place, is going over to DK4. Great apprehension.
acallidryas
@GlenTomkins (and others, really)
I’m kind of surprised everyone is just focused on Allen. We have no shortage of crazies who will be happy to fight for that seat–I believe someone already mentioned Cuccinelli,and Corey Stewart, the anti-immigrant Prince William supervisor has been rumored before. Even if Allen can’t sell himself as right enough, we have plenty the Tea Party would be proud of, and who just might be able to pull off a senate run.
As for Periello, I’m not sure he could win, but I think he could be competitive. I’d agree that if VA is trending blue that year, Periello would win. The seat he had before was very conservative, so he can win in a Republican area, and he’s a strong campaigner–and a strong champion of progressive values. He was selling the health care bill in his district, instead of running from it. I’d like to think he could pull it off.
Nerull
I’m curious what more liberal policies Allen will vote for, and I fail to see how getting him elected will be a progressive victory.
Glen Tomkins
@acallidryas: I spent all my time on Allen because I was answering the particular assumption that John Cole made, “The possibility that George Allen might be the next Senator from Virginia just increased greatly.”.
I think that Allen is a weak candidate, about the only nationally known VA Senate candidate the Rs could put up who would be a near-certainty to lose. Probably the only reason that, before the Webb withdrawal, he held the field for them, aside from Radtke, was that their side wasn’t thrilled about the prospects of any R candidate taking the seat, so might as well leave it to a vanity run by Macaca. They figured he would lose big and that might finally get him to give up politics. Good riddance.
Now that Webb has withdrawn, I think the seat is much more competitive. Cole would have been much more correct to say that Webb’s withdrawal makes it more likely that some R will win, but I think that Allen is unlikely to be the beneficiary.
That enhnaced competitiveness will probably mean that other Rs will come in, both from the bagger and the “moderate” ends of their spectrum. I doubt that Allen will be able to get the nomination if any more serious contenders come into the primary race.
I don’t have anything I think terribly insightful to say on exactly who these Rs who jump in might be. Both of your suggestions are quite possible.
The only thing I would add about Cuccinelli, is that he might be uninterested in the Senate, compared to being governor, for the same reason that is, I suspect, Webb’s main reason for quitting. The Senate just isn’t a very hospitable place these days for people with ideas, much less Big Ideas. Not to say that someone with enough of a Messianic bent to entertain Big Ideas might not be able to convince himself that great events were at hand, and being a Senator stands on the verge of transforming into being all about bringing Big Ideas to fruition — but, really. I would think that Cuccinelli is moire likely to imagine that being governor, especially insofa as his side is successful at getting us back to a states’ rights regime in this country, has a lot more possibilities for working dramatic change than being a US Senator.
As for the Dem side, if the Rs play it safe, and don’t nominate some loser like Allen or an extreme bagger, I suspect that any reasonable Dem could win if the economy picks up, but almost no Dem could win if it doesn’t. I don’t see that any of the possibilities on our side bring any individual advantages or disadvantages to the race that would be strong enough to outweigh that factor of the jobs picture in 2012.
Gemina13
Please. George Allen can make a run for Senator, but he didn’t do particularly well last time, and it looks unlikely he’d make a good showing now. Do stop foaming at the mouth over yet another Blue Dog stepping down, and start considering that, with the DLC out of the way, another Democrat might run for and win Webb’s seat.
Stan Moody
Hopefully, Jim Webb will continue his crusade for prison reform…
For articles on Prison Reform, visit http://www.scribd.com/stanmoody