Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The willow is too close to the house.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

When I was faster i was always behind.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Criminal Justice / Shitty Cops / Hair Trigger

Reader Interactions

153Comments

  1. 1.

    Botsplainer

    South Carolina.

    He’ll be acquitted, and the foreman will make a long,tearful and impassioned drawly speech after reading the verdict about how sad he is that the officer had to go through the trial, and how he hopes that reinstatement is in the works.

  2. 2.

    clone12

    Without the dashboard cam you would have an entire legion of Fox News watching old fucks insisting that the whole thing would not have happened had the thuggish black guy been just a bit more cooperative.

  3. 3.

    Felanius Kootea

    I saw that on ThinkProgress today and was astounded. The cop asks the guy for his license, the guy reaches into the car for it and the cop shoots at him multiple times hitting him at least once. I was pained when I heard the wounded man say “Sorry” for following the cop’s orders to get his ID. And the whole “seatbelt violation” when someone had just pulled into a gas station and would of course remove their seatbelt made no sense. I’m glad this itchy trigger finger cop was fired.

  4. 4.

    Betty Cracker

    I’m glad he’s been fired and is being prosecuted. He should do serious jail time and receive a lifetime ban from owning any type of weapon, ever. Thank FSM he’s a lousy shot in addition to being a hysterical dickhead.

  5. 5.

    Belafon

    Video didn’t help in Ohio, but the difference here is the police force didn’t reflexively protect the officer. They fired and arrested him almost immediately. Gives me a little hope.

  6. 6.

    Botsplainer

    He got canned and is being prosecuted. Even so, as a matter of policy, I question the wisdom of issuing military-originated weapons with light trigger pulls as the standard sidearm for beat cops. That LA incident was a long damn time ago (20 years), and was a statistical one-off.

    There’s something to be said for the tried and true .357 magnum revolver – you have to think about it to fire that first round. The harder trigger pull or by pulling the hammer for the light pull gives a pausing moment, and decreases the chances of an adrenaline fueled misfire.

  7. 7.

    Flukebucket

    You know when an officer gets fired the fuck up is unspeakably egregious. Just hard to believe there are people with a license to kill walking around out there scared to death of the damn general public.

  8. 8.

    elmo

    I eagerly await the apologies from all the Fox News talking heads and other serious, thoughtful commentators who expressed doubt and disbelief that Darren Wilson would ever, ever have shot Mike Brown with his hands in the air. This poor bastard was obeying orders and was shot at, then raised his hands and was still shot.

    If he doesn’t have lifelong complications from being shot in the hip, he will be a very fortunate man indeed. He may never be able to walk properly again, and he will likely be in pain for the rest of his life.

  9. 9.

    Botsplainer

    @Belafon:

    [T]he difference here is the police force didn’t reflexively protect the officer.

    Looking at the video, he comes off as a trigger-happy candyass randomly spraying bullets after giving a contradictory command. That gets fellow cops killed and makes the rest of them look bad.

    He was the sacrificial lamb.

  12. 12.

    Violet

    Wow. I just watched the whole thing. It seems like the officer knows he did the wrong thing from his tone of voice when he’s talking to the guy he shot. The officer tries to get him to stay still, apply pressure, that kind of thing and his tone of voice sounds like he knows he fucked up.

    When the guy asks the officer why he shot him, the officer says he “dove back into the car” and he stopped him for a “seatbelt violation”. The guy is just incredulous. He said, “You told me to get my license. I was getting my license!” And “Seatbelt violation?!” He can’t believe it. The officer again sounds like he knows he royally fucked up.

    Thank goodness for dashcam video. The officer would never have been found at fault otherwise. The poor guy who was shot. Just awful.

    If that isn’t a lesson in doing NOTHING before letting the police know what you’re doing, I don’t know what is. “Officer you asked me to get my license. My license is in the car. I’m going to retrieve it from the car.” No one should have to do that but no one wants to get shot. Totally fucked up.

  13. 13.

    beth

    Not to mention the fact that this moron is firing indiscriminately outside what looks to be a busy gas station. He’s just lucky one of his bullets didn’t hit a bystander or a gas tank. I suspect that’s the real reason his job was terminated.

  14. 14.

    Belafon

    @Botsplainer: And yet, nothing happened in Ohio, and the video from the Wal-Mart shows pretty much the same thing.

    He might be a sacrificial lamb, but as we’ve seen, police see no obligation to provide one.

  16. 16.

    Linnaeus

    @clone12:

    Without the dashboard cam you would have an entire legion of Fox News watching old fucks insisting that the whole thing would not have happened had the thuggish black guy been just a bit more cooperative.

    My guess is that not a few in the Fox News legion will insist that even with the dashboard cam video.

  17. 17.

    raven

    WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric Holder is resigning, NPR first reported Thursday.

    Holder will announce his plans to depart the administration at a press conference at the White House this afternoon, calling his tenure the “greatest honor” of his professional life, according to Justice Department officials.

  18. 18.

    Violet

    The other thing is, the officer is firing off bullets at a gas station that is filled with other cars and people. How many people did he put at risk? How close was he to setting something on fire?

  21. 21.

    Tiny Tim

    When I was learning to drive the standard instruction was, when pulled over, get your license out and reach into the glove box and pull out your insurance/registration information. Now the standard advice is put your hands on the wheel and do not fucking move until instructed.

  22. 22.

    mb

    One big difference in this incident is that the victim lived. If he’d killed him, he might still be on the job.

  23. 23.

    Haydnseek

    @raven: Good. Maybe we can get an AG that isn’t afraid to prosecute the Wall Street felons that Holder so studiously ignored for so long. I’m not holding my breath, but Holder was a fucking disgrace.

  27. 27.

    Mart

    Still wondering where they put the old warning shot.

    Remember, when you put your male black hands up, dive and take cover.

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    @Belafon: The Walmart shooting and the shooting above were both unjustified shootings of innocent people, but the shooting above is 100 times more egregious, IMO. The cops in the Walmart incident had good reason to believe they were approaching a dangerous subject, though they were given bad information and mishandled the confrontation, killing an innocent person. The cop above had no good reason whatsoever to assume the man was dangerous or open fire.

  30. 30.

    Felanius Kootea

    @mb: As others have said, it’s a miracle that he didn’t hit bystanders or a gas tank. That could have been a much worse scene.

  36. 36.

    piratedan

    @Linnaeus: they don’t dwell often in the realm of the sane and reasonable… so yeah, I expect that there will be a campaign underway to help defray his prosecution costs and the usual delving into the actual victim’s background indicating why he “deserved” it.

  38. 38.

    Maya

    Even without the shooting, the “seatbelt violation” is the typical bullshit petty harassment charge imposed on black drivers on a regular basis. Let’s not overlook that in all the drama–it’s the sort of thing that leads to these crazy escalations of force.

  39. 39.

    glocksman

    @Botsplainer:

    From what I could find, the SC state cops carry either a .40S&W Glock or .45GAP Glock.

    Either way a Glock’s trigger pull is nothing like that of a single action semiauto like a Colt Government Model, a cocked Beretta 92 or a cocked .357 revolver, especially if the gun was equipped with a ‘New York Trigger’ module like most LE Glocks are.

    The type of gun is really immaterial because while the first shot *could* have been an unintentional discharge, the follow up shots were intentional.

  40. 40.

    Botsplainer

    This cracks my ass up.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/new-gop-ad-insists-republicans-drive-hybrids-shop-at-trader-joes-have-feelings/

    A Republican strategist who worked on Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign is attempting to rebrand his party via an ad that insists “Republicans Are People, Too,” the MaddowBlog’s Steven Benen reports.

    Vinny Minchillo said he started the campaign because “people, I’m afraid, think that Republicans spend their days huddling over a boiling cauldron throwing in locks of Ronald Reagan’s hair.”

    “We thought let’s get out there and show who Republicans really are,” he added, “regular folks interested in making the world a better place.”

    In the ad, Republicans are portrayed as people who drive hybrid cars, recycle, sport tattoos, read the New York Times in public, and even have feelings.

    Hey, Vinny? Fuck you.

    Your problem isn’t one requiring “rebranding” – the problem is that the Republican base is assholes, all the way down, and their id is running the entire show.

    “On social media, I’ve been called every name in the book,” Minchillo said. “It’s become socially acceptable to talk about Republicans in the most evil terms possible and that doesn’t seem right. We wanted to do this to really remind people that Republicans are friends, neighbors and do things that maybe you wouldn’t expect them to do.”

    Like vote suppression? Overt racism? Slut shaming? Religious extremism? Punching down on economics?

  41. 41.

    Violet

    @Betty Cracker: That’s why I said if you listen to the officer’s tone of voice on this video it seems he knows he’s completely fucked up. He’s got that, “OMG, you’re wounded, you’re bleeding, let me help you” sound to it. Not the, “You’re a dangerous criminal” sound.

  42. 42.

    El Tiburon

    I’ve been on the corrupt end of police tactics a few times – and I’m an educated white dude of some means.

    They are corrupt and we are the enemy. Period. But as long as they keep murdering black folk, I suspect not much will change.

  43. 43.

    Linnaeus

    @piratedan:

    My guess is that some folks will say something like, “Well, the driver could have been reaching for anything, so it’s understandable the police officer would shoot.”

  44. 44.

    Felanius Kootea

    The article on Groubert’s firing points out the following:

    “The facts of this case are disturbing to me,” the director wrote in his statement. “Mr. Groubert reacted to a perceived threat where there was none. The department’s use-of-force policy makes clear that officers shall use ‘only the level of force necessary to accomplish lawful objectives’ and that ‘the use of force must be discontinued when it becomes apparent to the officer that the force is no longer needed.’

    “That protocol was not followed in this case,” Smith said.

    The patrol has upheld two previous complaints against Groubert, The State newspaper reported Thursday. Those offenses occurred in 2009 and 2013 and followed internal investigations by the agency. Two additional complaints were dismissed, though the agency was investigating a current one.

    Looks like Groubert has had problems before. He switched jobs to the sheriff’s office when an internal review investigation was started (so they dropped the investigation because he was no longer employed) and then switched back to the police force later. If he is not convicted, I bet he joins some other city’s police force, itchy trigger finger intact.

  45. 45.

    Linnaeus

    @glocksman:

    Either way a Glock’s trigger pull is nothing like that of a single action semiauto like a Colt Government Model, a cocked Beretta 92 or a cocked .357 revolver, especially if the gun was equipped with a ‘New York Trigger’ module like most LE Glocks are

    Meaning the Glock’s trigger pull is comparatively light? I’ve never fired one.

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    @Violet: Yeah, you’re right — he knew he fucked up instantly. He probably gets an apologetic tone in his voice after he slugs his wife or beats the shit out of his kids too. “Why’d you go and make me do that?”

  47. 47.

    Paul Gottlieb

    It’s impossible to read minds, of course, but doesn’t it seem like that cop was a terrified kid in way over his head? Every move he made seemed to scream “I’m terrified!” And it was obvious from his post-shooting behavior that he knew he had fucked up. It was almost as if he couldn’t believe he had shot a man. All this is no consolation to the innocent man who was just shot, of course, but this doesn’t look like your typical callous semi-execution. Who the hell put that guy on the street with a deadly weapon and permission to use deadly force? That’s a question that needs answering.

  48. 48.

    Linnaeus

    @Botsplainer:

    You know, perhaps Mr. Minchillo could work on convincing his fellow Republicans that non-Republicans are people too? Apparently he hasn’t heard, or has willfully ignored, how many of them regard their fellow Americans.

  49. 49.

    Botsplainer

    @Felanius Kootea:

    “The facts of this case are disturbing to me,” the director wrote in his statement. “Mr. Groubert reacted to a perceived threat where there was none. The department’s use-of-force policy makes clear that officers shall use ‘only the level of force necessary to accomplish lawful objectives’ and that ‘the use of force must be discontinued when it becomes apparent to the officer that the force is no longer needed.’

    Those would be the rounds he fired as Jones backed away after the first or second one, which seems to be when he was hit. Had it only been one – the first – there would have been some wiggle room. Everything after that was clearly out of bounds.

  51. 51.

    Mike J

    @Linnaeus: Revolvers in general have a heavier trigger pull. The New York trigger mentioned puts in a stiffer spring so the automatic feels more like a revolver.

  52. 52.

    glocksman

    @Linnaeus:

    Heavier (especially if you have a NY trigger module installed) and longer than a traditional cocked revolver or semiauto.
    The NY module is offered because the NYPD had a rash of negligent discharges when they transitioned to the Glock 19 and officers used to revolvers treated it like one.

    The heavier than stock two stage pull that the NY modules have made it more ‘revolver like’ than the original.

  53. 53.

    Violet

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, no kidding. He’s completely out of control and should not be a uniformed officer of any type. Glad they fired him.

    He does have that tone of “You made me” when he explains to the guy he shot him because “You dove into your car.” Uh huh.

  55. 55.

    scav

    @Paul Gottlieb: He’s been on some force or another since at least 2007 — if he’s still incompetant and in over his head after 7 years (at what is presumably the day to day aspects of his job, not even the rare adrenaline-punching bits) well, that speaks to a larger, institutional problem, no?

  56. 56.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Betty Cracker:

    The cop above had no good reason whatsoever to assume the man was dangerous or open fire.

    Sure he did. The suspect is blah. Armed with his license. Obviously threatening the life of this piece of racist shit with a fuckin’ badge.

  59. 59.

    Rob in CT

    Given that he was fired and is being prosecuted, this is actually much better than some of the other incidents we’ve talked about. Sad, but true.

  60. 60.

    pseudonymous in nc

    South Carolina definitely making a concerted effort to maintain its 200+ year streak as Worst Carolina of the Year.

    Officer Buford P. Whitey tried the Respect Mah Authority with a Those People, then shat himself. And yeah, the fact that he’s managed to finesse his way between different law enforcement divisions is a problem. If he walks, he’ll probably end up at some bumfuck local PD in the Columbia suburbs running speed traps.

  61. 61.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @piratedan: Look at the guy! He’s blah! He’s got a melanin surplus! Of course he deserved it…he probably stole the vehicle off his massa’s plantation!

  63. 63.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Botsplainer: Yeah, Vinnie needs to go home and rethink his life.

    /waves hand

    Rethuglicans are called that now for a reason. They are indeed assholes all the way down…no better example than the thieving parasite that Vinnie worked for in 2012.

  64. 64.

    Mnemosyne

    @mb:

    One big difference in this incident is that the victim lived. If he’d killed him, he might still be on the job.

    Sadly, that’s exactly what I was thinking.

  65. 65.

    Mike in NC

    @Felanius Kootea: Assuming he has South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) certification, he will probably get hired by another police department after a “decent interval” of lying low.

  66. 66.

    David in NY

    @elmo: Looks to me like there’s no cap on compensatory damages, so his medical bills would be completely covered (less attorney’s fees of course). Punitive damages are capped at maybe $500K, but the cap may not apply here if the cop gets convicted of a felony.

    The new SC law is complex.

  67. 67.

    different-church-lady

    @Botsplainer:

    In the ad, Republicans are portrayed as people who drive hybrid cars, recycle, sport tattoos, read the New York Times in public, and even have feelings.

    In other words, everything that actual republican voters spend all day long mocking on the interwebs.

  69. 69.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @scav:

    well, that speaks to a larger, institutional problem, no?

    I heard this factoid mentioned yesterday: the US has more police departments than Canada has police officers. Now, the US has nine times the population, but that kind of massively dispersed institutional setup not only creates problems of authority (see: Ferguson) but also makes it easier for shitty cops to find a branch that will take them.

  70. 70.

    JPL

    @Linnaeus: Since most southern states have open carry, I bet you are correct that the police officer just assumed. It’s another consequence of guns everywhere laws. Unfortunately, it appears that the blacks will be punished most.

    The guy was coming home from work. I hope he doesn’t lose his job because of missing to many days due to being shot. SC is a right to fire state.

  71. 71.

    catclub

    @Maya: ONly thing I find interesting is that people unhook their seatbelt before stopping. I might hook it after the car is started, but only time I would unhook it is at a drive-up ATM. Otherwise, turn off car, unhook seatbelt.

  72. 72.

    catclub

    @pseudonymous in nc: The report where all the police in Germany fired guns 91 times in a year, with 35 or so being warning shots, while you can get that many shots fired in one Amadou Diallo incident here, was shocking. The Germans then mentioned that their officers are actually trained professionals.

  73. 73.

    Suffern ACE

    @Botsplainer: yeah. Umm. It’s as if “talk radio” wasn’t a thing. It existed. Republicans populated it with bile. Eventually “liberals” got tired of being called feminazi libtard fags. Boo hoo hoo if republicans want better names for themselves.

  74. 74.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @catclub:

    The Germans then mentioned that their officers are actually trained professionals.

    Well, we can’t have that here, or Cousin Billy Ray’s boy Billy Joe won’t be able to get a job with the Po-leese.

  75. 75.

    Corey

    I think a contributory factor here is y’all are swimming in guns (not me though — I’m Canadian). It seems pretty clear to me that the cop panicked when the driver acted in a way the cop didn’t expect; I’d guess that the cop unconsciously assumed that the license was on the driver’s person. The itchy trigger finger is on the cop; the national gun policy that raises the prior probability that the driver might actually have a gun in the car is on the NRA.

    Frankly, US cops have a lot more to fear from the citizenry than Canadian cops do (which just makes shit like this all the more infuriating).

  76. 76.

    jonas

    Thank God for dashboard cams — otherwise I’m sure we’d be hearing about how the cop was brutally attacked by this 8-foot tall black thug carrying 6 guns and 14 knives and had no choice but to fire in self-defense. I’m also surprised the guy was actually fired for a change and charged with assault. I was expecting to read that he was given a merit citation and the victim charged for littering when his blood got the pavement dirty.

  77. 77.

    Don K

    @Violet:

    If I’m sitting in the car, I’ll say, “My registration and insurance card are in the glove box, and I’m going to reach over there to get them for you.” As you say, you shouldn’t have to do this, but I always figured better safe than sorry.

  78. 78.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Paul Gottlieb:

    doesn’t it seem like that cop was a terrified kid in way over his head?

    He’s arresting a guy stopped at a gas station for taking off his seatbelt. There is no reason for him to be terrified that doesn’t make this worse. On drugs? Psychotic? So racist that he thinks any random black guy is a violent thug? What explanation is there that is any kind of excuse?

    EDIT – @Corey:
    Except, again, he has zero reason to believe this person is even potentially dangerous unless he’s so racist he thinks all black men are dangerous. He’s dealing with a calm, cooperative individual in non-violent circumstances he has to have dealt with a hundred times. There’s no legitimate excuse to *be* this nervous.

  79. 79.

    The Other Bob

    @Botsplainer:

    Your problem isn’t one requiring “rebranding” – the problem is that the Republican base is assholes, all the way down, and their id is running the entire show.

    Yes, plus, this was tried once before. Do you remember the ads that ran in the late 80’s or so that became a total SNL joke? There was a bunch of sterotypical liberal characters proclaiming things like: “I am and artist, and I am a Republican.”

  80. 80.

    Rafer Janders

    @catclub:

    The actual figure for German police in 2011 was 85 bullets, divided into “49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects” and as a result “15 persons were injured, 6 were killed.”

    So once again, in Germany, a nation with 80 million people, the police for an entire year only fired as many bullets as are sometimes fired in one single police shooting in the US.

    (Consider, also, that, that 36 shots on people resulting in 21 suspects being hit means that most of those suspects were hit with only one bullet, once you account for a few inevitable misses. That’s (a) a remarkable rate of accuracy and (b) testament to the fact that German cops don’t automatically double-tap their shots).

    But then again, this is a professional police department. Comparing them to most US cops is apples and oranges….

  82. 82.

    Patrick

    @Don K:

    If I’m sitting in the car, I’ll say, “My registration and insurance card are in the glove box, and I’m going to reach over there to get them for you.”

    If the person in the car is African-American, there is no guarantee that saying that would necessarily help. Some cops, like this one in SC and the entire department in Ferguson, seem to want to shoot first irregardless if the “suspect” is African-American.

  84. 84.

    raven

    Fuck a topic

    BAGHDAD (AP) — Militants with the Islamic State group publicly killed a rights lawyer in the Iraqi city of Mosul after their self-styled Islamic court ruled that she had abandoned Islam, the U.N. mission in Iraq said Thursday.

    Samira Salih al-Nuaimi was seized from her home on Sept. 17 after allegedly posting messages on Facebook that were critical of the militants’ destruction of religious sites in Mosul.

    According to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Iraq, al-Nuaimi was tried in a so-called “Sharia court” for apostasy, after which she was tortured for five days before the militants sentenced her to “public execution.

  85. 85.

    Betty Cracker

    @Corey: You are absolutely right. It doesn’t excuse what the cop did in the above video, of course, but naturally cops here are more jumpy since millions of people are packing. It’s part of the problem, along with poor police training, racism, etc.

  91. 91.

    Suffern ACE

    @raven: on the plus side, government like that makes living in our own messed up system seem so much better. Heck, I might try out North Korea before I’d think about that system.

  93. 93.

    RaflW

    A friend who is Indian-American told me Tuesday about being screamed at, at gunpoint, by an off duty cop by an ATM machine because he “acted suspicious.” (This was about 8 years ago.)
    He had tried to use the lobby ATM, but two dodgy homeless guys were camped in there. So he walked to the drive-up ATM* and was about to put his card in when the aggressive shouting started.
    As he said to me “if I had been black, I would have been shot first, and maybe questioned if I survived. White, I might not have even been approached, but gun holstered certainly.”
    Blatant racism aside, cops have utterly forgotten the protect and serve notion. And while individual cops are problems, it’s clearly systemic and starts with Mayors & chiefs of police who are far too eager to control situations rather than understand them.

    *I used to walk up to a driveup ATM occasionally, but I was told at some point that it is viewed suspiciously, sometimes it is expressly forbidden. As if a robber can run away with stolen cash boxes easier than people in a car? I don’t get it. It seems rooted in class and race bias: people too poor for cars have no business needing an ATM.

  94. 94.

    boatboy_srq

    @Amir Khalid: Attempted murder would imply intent. So unless Groubert was out hunting ni-CLANGs (in which case it’d also be a hate crime assuming SC recognizes such things) and such could be proven in court, aggravated assault is probably the most they can get so long as the victim is still breathing.

  96. 96.

    Corner Stone

    @RaflW:

    I used to walk up to a driveup ATM occasionally, but I was told at some point that it is viewed suspiciously, sometimes it is expressly forbidden.

    It’s dangerous for both you and the driver. And if I saw someone standing at the drive up ATM, no matter what skin color, I’d keep on driving.

  97. 97.

    RaflW

    @Botsplainer: Poor misunderstood Vinny says

    “On social media, I’ve been called every name in the book,” Minchillo said. “It’s become socially acceptable to talk about Republicans in the most evil terms possible and that doesn’t seem right…”

    As opposed to liberals, who are called awful hedonistic fascists by Heritage on a regular basis. That’s OK, because it’s said using fancy words rather than cussing. I see. IOKIYAR all the way, baby.

  98. 98.

    JaneE

    Do they deliberately hire people with anger and self control issues to be law enforcement officers? Is there some kind of contagious madness passed around in police locker rooms? This level of “out-of-control” is mental illness, or serious psychological instability. How do these people manage to pass a psych test? Or do they not do that any more? I can understand a “take what you can get” attitude if you are a tiny Podunk miles from anywhere, but the state police hired and trained this guy before they sent him out.

    We are living in an asylum where the patients are in charge.

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @Betty Cracker: Absolutely! And you know what else? How much do you want to bet that the cop is thinking more about his job and what his choice to shoot a totally innocent man on video tape (!) is gonna do to the rest of his life (if we’re lucky) than he is about the fact that he shot a totally innocent man.

  105. 105.

    Patrick

    @Botsplainer:

    “It’s become socially acceptable to talk about Republicans in the most evil terms possible and that doesn’t seem right.

    OMG!!! Republicans called anybody who was against the 2003 Iraq war terrorist sympathizer or traitor. Obama has been referred to as a Kenyan, Arab, Muslim. And all the absolute racist crap regarding his birth certificate.

    Maybe Republicans can start by apologizing for their behavior regarding the 2003 Iraq war and their racist behavior regarding our President.

  106. 106.

    WaterGirl

    I cannot figure out why the police organizations are not fighting for gun control. All these shootings indicate that these guys are terrified and the FIRST thing they do is go for their gun.

    I’ve said it before – what happened to the police mentality that the number thing a police officer does must do is stay in control of the situation? And that if you have to go for your gun you have already lost control of the situation, which basically means you have failed at your job.

    Total system failure of police all across our country.

    I’m so disappointed that Holder is stepping down. I am not thrilled by everything he’s done, but it’s been a huge relief for me to have someone I trust in that position. It’s been nice to think of the DOJ as one of the good guys who can step in to help address open season on black males – so at least we don’t have the entire country looking away, just the local departments.

  107. 107.

    Belafon

    @WaterGirl: Because a good portion of them believe, like a lot of the right wing, that we are one gun confiscation away from a police state (pun intended) or the end of civilization.

  108. 108.

    Calouste

    @pseudonymous in nc: 30,000+ police departments in the US according to a friend of mine in the know. If that sounds a lot, keep in mind that there are already more than 3,000 counties in the US, and most of them have their own police department, even if they only have 10,000 inhabitants or so. Then within the more populated counties, every city has their own police department, and that can easily top 20.

  109. 109.

    nastybrutishntall

    @Corner Stone: Here in rural CO, often there are only drive-up ATM’s. I work across from one, so if I were to obey custom, I would literally get in my car to cross the street, and then recross the street again and repark. Or, I could just walk. It’s insane.

  112. 112.

    Roger Moore

    @Rafer Janders:
    It would be interesting to see the number of bullets fired at German police officers as a point of comparison. I certainly agree that American police are too trigger happy, but I’m also suspicious that they have a lot more reason to be worried.

  113. 113.

    Roger Moore

    @Patrick:

    why aren’t cops demanding tougher gun control?

    A lot of them are. There are some like the ones in your article who aren’t, but they’re mostly taking that position because they’re elected and are pandering to the voters.

  114. 114.

    Trollhattan

    @WaterGirl:
    Our county sheriff seat was open and three men competing for the job had a live radio debate. The topic of concealed carry permits was introduced (the former sheriff was a stickler for evidence one was needed before issuing it, and IIRC there were only a couple hundred). One of the candidates besically endorsed the outgoing sheriff’s policy and the other two went into Full Wayne LaPierre mode, as though somebody threw a switch on their necks.

    Wayne LaPierre Junior is unopposed in his reelection bid ths November and yes, we are a county now festooned with CCPs. They should call them concealed carry crimestopping permits–CCCPs.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @Calouste:

    Then within the more populated counties, every city has their own police department, and that can easily top 20.

    And then there are specialist police agencies like transit police, school police, tribal police, etc.

  118. 118.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Belafon: Not excusing what happened in OH, but I think the phone call that ginned up the whole police visit to Walmart set the tone for how the police handled the young man with the BB gun. Their mind was already made up that he was pointing the gun at people and otherwise acting dangerously. I disagree with the Grand Jury’s decision though and hope that DOJ prosecutes the police officers.

  119. 119.

    David in NY

    @boatboy_srq:

    aggravated assault is probably the most they can get so long as the victim is still breathing.

    Yup. Absent actual intent to kill or racial intent, as you say.

  120. 120.

    David in NY

    @Roger Moore:

    specialist police agencies like transit police, school police, tribal police

    And while “specialist” in medicine means “more qualifications,” the word here means “less qualifications.”

  123. 123.

    scav

    @kindness: Consider the far more ominous alternative: that this is a bog-standard level of violence and what has changed is the reporting. Luckily for baseline sanity maintenance, reality is likely to be in the muddly middle. along with the change in recording and reporting capabilities, there does seem to have a been an uptick in mass shootings, so the badge boys may be extra triggery wiggley with theoretical cause. But, there are still the stats about the measured risk of the occupation.

    There seems to be something endemic and systematically dysfunctional in the nebulous system: the situation in the Mississippi county where actually going through the whole court / judicial process seems to be optional for the poor (just keep ’em in jail) (sorry, another NYT link) is troubling to say the least. Granted, they are at least still breathing.

  125. 125.

    catclub

    @Roger Moore:

    A lot of them are.

    Unfortunately, they are in the same media blackout as those moderate muslims denouncing terrorism.
    They are not being heard.

  126. 126.

    Patrick

    @Roger Moore:

    There are some like the ones in your article who aren’t, but they’re mostly taking that position because they’re elected and are pandering to the voters.

    Not doubting what you are saying. However, if that’s the case, then could our system possibly be any more broken?

    To get elected, the sheriff has to advocate for more guns on the street. With more guns on the street, he and his department will be more jumpy and shoot first and ask questions later. As happened in Sc and in Ferguson. I think I just want to scream…

  128. 128.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Botsplainer: Wasting $$$ on an ad to rebrand the Party of Racists, Homophobia, Sexists, Xenophobes, etc doesn’t sound like a winner. Republicans better stick with voter suppression as that appears to be working for them really well.

  129. 129.

    Corner Stone

    No good damn liberals. All the time with your hedonistic sex, and your gay sex and your putting bacon on burgers and your encouraging of the indulgences of walking up to a drive through ATM.
    From the Pit of Hades! All of yah!!

  130. 130.

    David in NY

    I can’t look at the video, but was this guy working alone? If so, I think that’s a contributory factor in many ways.

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    @Patrick:

    However, if that’s the case, then could our system possibly be any more broken?

    I’m sure it could be more broken if we really tried, but I’d rather not go there. That said, I think some of the problem is an urban/rural divide. People who live in the middle of nowhere, where police response times are likely to be very slow, want the option of being armed so they have some kind of defense. Since there are a ton of rural counties, they’re severely overrepresented in sheriffs’ organizations.

  132. 132.

    Patrick

    @Belafon:

    Because a good portion of them believe, like a lot of the right wing, that we are one gun confiscation away from a police state (pun intended) or the end of civilization.

    Well, since they are police officers, isn’t that good for them? Other than catering to gun nuts in order to get elected (which is a clear sign of how broken our system is), I have no idea why police officers want more guns on the street.

  134. 134.

    geg6

    @boatboy_srq:

    Yeah, sounds like some people here go about 60 mph through the ATM lane. I sure hope those people don’t live near me.

    And I agree with you and nastybrutishntall. I often go to my bank’s drive-up ATM while riding in the passenger seat of my John’s SUV. It’s my bank transaction and we have separate banks/accounts. I don’t use John’s and he doesn’t use mine. He either pulls all the way through the lane and I get out or he doesn’t pull all the way up to the machine and I get out, but I’m not using the machine from a vehicle. No one ever has questioned it or given us a hard time about it. And I see others doing it all the time.

  135. 135.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Patrick:

    Maybe Republicans can start by apologizing for their behavior regarding the 2003 Iraq war and their racist behavior regarding our President.

    The only apology I’ll entertain from them is a Captain Needa apology.

  136. 136.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Corner Stone: Not to mention mixing fabrics. Next thing you know you’ll be treating females as human beings with agency, and that is surely the pavement of the road to Hell.

  137. 137.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @raven: Every last one of those pieces of shit needs to be hunted down and killed.

    And those financing them, too.

  140. 140.

    gvg

    In a way it’s “blaming the victim” to say we need to tell the cop what we are reaching for, get acknowledgement it’s ok, then move very slowly….however I always have for 30 years since a young white male friend of mine when we were early 20’s described being stopped for some minor traffic problem at night by a white police officer who was shaking in fear of him and had her gun on him while he got his license out….fearful cops have been around awhile and have been killing people too. Mind you it can’t be the majority or it would have been much more noticible…..cameras everywhere I think. Makes me want a dash cam.
    Florida has “sunshine” laws that mandate open records on a lot of things. If we start putting dash cams and body cams on police we are also going to have to decide how long the records have to be kept and when they have to be made public. Keeping that many video records is going to be a burden but it’s a burden I want taken on. Then we have to figure out how to store them securely yet allow public access. i don’t even know how or what rules I want there yet but I’d like to know what others think. There would have to be different rules for video that turns out to be relevant to an investigation-longer storage for one. Also who gets access before the trial? Reporters? Sometimes the cops behavior is in question, other times its just about the accused. We don’t want to taint the jury trial but we do want public oversight.
    It doesn’t do any good to tape if no one reviews the tapes so someone has to look at all of it right?

  143. 143.

    boatboy_srq

    @gvg:

    Keeping that many video records is going to be a burden but it’s a burden I want taken on. Then we have to figure out how to store them securely yet allow public access.

    That’s going to be one seriously heavy lift – especially if the public wants watchable video. There’s infrastructure to burn involved there, with major data storage and Web traffic to consider. Given how backward Tallahassee seems on most tech issues, there’s going to be a lot of resistance to building a system that can maintain anything more than 3 months’ worth of recordings, especially if it’s going to be remotely secure.

  144. 144.

    aimai

    @catclub: I think that’s wrong–especially at night. It would be very risky to be standing at a drive through atm takign out money while someone else was driving up.

  145. 145.

    Mnemosyne

    @RaflW:

    I had a somewhat similar encounter with LAPD one time (though not over an ATM). I was trying to get the attention of a passing patrol car to let them know that a homeless guy was on a public corner with his pants around his ankles, but all they cared about was that I stepped into the street to get closer to the car when they stopped. I don’t even think they stopped to check on the guy.

  147. 147.

    2liberal

    @Felanius Kootea:

    As others have said, it’s a miracle that he didn’t hit bystanders or a gas tank. That could have been a much worse scene.

    why would that have been much worse? I didn’t watch the video but from the context it seems this victim was a completely innocent bystander anyway.

  148. 148.

    Arclite

    @mb:

    One big difference in this incident is that the victim lived. If he’d killed him, he might still be on the job.

    I just assumed he was fired for not killing the scary black guy.

  149. 149.

    Mnemosyne

    @2liberal:

    why would that have been much worse? I didn’t watch the video but from the context it seems this victim was a completely innocent bystander anyway.

    Gas tank + flying bullet = a potential explosion, which would be much worse in a crowded gas station than one guy getting shot.

  150. 150.

    BruceFromOhio

    @Tiny Tim:

    Now the standard advice is put your hands on the wheel and do not fucking move until instructed.

    @rikyrah:

    Keys out of the ignition on the dashboard.

    Hands on the wheel with license sticking out between the fingers of your left hand.

    Look straight ahead, and don’t fucking move a motherfucking muscle.

    Do not speak until spoken to. Under NO circumstances look the officer in the eye.

    If the officer accuses you of fucking puppies while bashing old ladies and burning down the village, the answer is “Yes, sir”.

    And when you get shot, tasered, arrested, beaten, jailed, killed, it is your own Gaia-damned fault, because even after all of the above, the officer still has probable cause. After all, that’s why you were pulled over in the first place.

  151. 151.

    Arclite

    @Helmut Monotreme:

    Body cams are halfway there. I also want gun cams that start recording the second the gun is drawn and keep recording until re-holstered.

    Actually, this. 1000x this.

  152. 152.

    My Truth Hurts

    Wait until all the facts are in! Trust the system! Being a cop is HARD WORK! Why does the left always make this about race? There is no such thing as white privilege! He was a thug! He had just robbed the gas station! BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  153. 153.

    SWMBO

    The cop had to ask if the guy was hit. He didn’t know if he’d hit him? He shot multiple times and didn’t know if he’d hit the guy? WTF? Listen to the cop. He starts going on “Bro” and didn’t even ask the guy’s name. Didn’t look at the id he’d asked for.

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