The Sandra Bland dashcam video has been released, and it is worse than you imagined. It starts, if you can believe this, with the cop giving a white girl a warning and asking her about college. He then turned around, sped the other way, and was driving well over the speed limit of 20 mph, and drove up behind Bland who was in the left lane, saw him coming, and shifted over to let him pass. Instead, he pulled her over. I watched and was asking why he even pulled her over because it is clear that is what she was doing, and later, she even explained that was what she was doing. It’s that obvious.
The cop then loses her shit, and the rest is, sadly, history:
She was never any threat to him, always well within her rights, and he just got mad because she wasn’t kissing his ring. Policing in this country is fucking insane, and this cop and those who killed her (yes, I think she was murdered) belong in jail.
Baud
I can only hope this is true
Jane2
Words fail.
Davis X. Machina
Six months ago, most likely no one would have seen the video, not outside that station house.
Small steps… but steps.
Montysan0
The contrast between how the white girl was treated and how Bland was treated is stark and nauseating.
Baud
Libertarians hate police state tactics so it’s nice to see them stepping up here.
Oh wait.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
Oddly enough libertarians only hate the police who stop them from doing whatever the hell they want. They tend to be very much in favor of police keeping those people away from them.
Its one of a million hypocrisies at the heart of the ideology.
eldorado
jfc. murder one.
rikyrah
@Montysan0:
But ALL lives matter….remember?
Smiling Mortician
She displayed amazing restraint in the face of ludicrously obvious abuse of power. How many times did that authoritarian asshole badger her with “What’s wrong?” and “You seem upset”? Forcing her to say something — anything — he could use as an excuse to drag her out of the car and show her who’s boss.
I have been ruder to cops who had better reasons to stop me. I am still alive. I am white.
Mino
I do think there are a lot of butthurt police out there this last year just looking to revenge the dissing they have been getting. Plus the steroid abuse, which gets little mention…
Joel
Let’s not stop there. I want the justice department in there, removing all sorts of assholes from power.
Trentrunner
Fuck the police.
the Conster
Now we know where all the high school bullies got jobs.
JPL
@Trentrunner: It would be nice if the police union said this is not who we are.
They won’t though.
MomSense
@Baud:
I join you in hoping that they do take this investigation seriously. I am sick about this.
the Conster
@Joel:
There’s a campaign speech in there somewhere.
agorabum
Charming…but is anything going to change when one party is highly opposed to reining in cops as long as they only wail on (and kill) ‘those people’. And they are willing to let a middle class white man get shot every now and again as long as it’s still a 20 to 1 ratio…
jo6ac
This isn’t new and that is what is the sad point. Please do what you can do in were you live at to stop this. Then again be careful.
JPL
OT.. Not as important but E. L. Doctorow died. I have to admit, I think it was Billy Bathgate, but I’m not sure, that convinced me to avoid the toilet during a thunder storm.
Betty Cracker
Sickening. Have you called your fucking congresscritters / senatortoises yet? Someone (mtiffany) was saying that in an earlier thread. It’s a damn good question. If you haven’t, resolve to do so tomorrow.
guachi
Just started watching it. The speed limit is 20 but I don’t think he’s doing 40. He approaches Bland quickly because she was stopped at a light.
And I’m not sure if it’s better or worse that race had nothing to do with why she was pulled over. It’s like he was looking for reasons to dick with people.
jayboat
I can’t watch it. This shit is just too depressing.
Kay
Which was the moment he decided to arrest her for something, and nothing she did from that point on would have made any difference.
Tom Q
I’m not willing to jump 100% to “she was murdered” — if what she says about depression in that online video is true, it’s possible she was overcome and just decided to end it all.
But…that still leaves him fully culpable, because clearly he had no business running her in, and anything that happened flowed from that heinous disregard.
Jeffro
Local white college girl – friendly warning, shocker
Out of state African American – first, a non-local revenue source (they all do it) and then, the challenge to his authority.
guachi
Damn. He really does just start losing it. I could see a cop acting that way if the person he was talking to had done something more than being pulled over for doing something more than not using a signal.
JPL
@Tom Q: That’s what I think. I could only watch until seventeen minutes in.
I know he has been placed on desk duty, but that’s not enough. I’m sick.
also, too… fkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkfk
Kay
@jayboat:
It’s hard to watch but it’s worth watching to see the box she’s in. She knows if she gets out of the car he’s going to find a reason to arrest her, and she can’t stop it. It simply doesn’t matter- get out, get pulled out, she’s getting arrested and she hasn’t done anything.
guachi
For those who haven’t watched it, the video may be 52 minutes long but there isn’t much past 16 minutes.
The cop is going to look really terrible when this gets played across the media. I’m assuming we’ll get “she should have complied” as a reason to excuse what happened. But even that won’t fly as he really did egg her on.
I give credit to the local police for releasing the full video.
Steve From Antioch
“You don’t have the right to tell me to get out of my car”
Lol
Montysan0
@Kay
This.
MomSense
@Kay:
He also pulls her out of view of his dashboard camera.
guachi
The weird thing is the stop starts of blandly enough. It’s like in the four minutes he’s back at his car doing whatever cops do that she realizes this stop is total bullshit, which it is. And then he gets back and can plainly see she’s irritated as he asks her what’s wrong.
But, really, if you’re going to ask someone a question you can’t get pissy when they answer you.
I can’t even tell if it’s racism or just a cop who doesn’t like to be talked back to. I could believe “racist asshole” and “asshole to anyone who doesn’t respect his authority”.
Gimlet
USA Today
In arresting Bland, the trooper “violated the department’s procedures regarding traffic stops and the department’s courtesy policy,” state public safety officials said Friday without specifying what procedures the trooper, whose name has not been released, had violated.
…
Cameras monitoring the hall outside her cell show no one entered or left it between the time she last spoke with deputies through an intercom system and when her body was discovered
Davis X. Machina
@Kay:He can arrest her if she doesn’t get out of the car.
Custodial arrests after routine traffic stops — fine-only misdemeanors, in the instant case, seat belt laws — were OK’d by the Supreme Court in Atwater v. Lago Vista in 2001…
kped
…this is horrifying. I can’t even believe it. This is what’s wrong with the police. Terrible.
Hungry Joe
She was an African-American woman who didn’t kowtow sufficiently to the white male cop, then had the audacity to 1) know her rights, and 2) object when they were being violated.
The cop asked her to put out her cigarette, and she said something like, Hey, I’m in my car. Which is a little rude, but that’s all it is: a little rude. Anyway, she was upset, and surely the cop knew that. If I were black and I got pulled over, I’d consider it a life-threatening situation.
rikyrah
@Tom Q:
Get the phuck outta here. She just got her dream job, and would commit suicide?
I don’t have time for this nonsense
Emma
256,788 verse… same as the first. The world can sometimes be a depressing place.
Gimlet
@Hungry Joe:
The cop asked her to put out her cigarette, and she said something like, Hey, I’m in my car. Which is a little rude, but that’s all it is: a little rude.
Uppity.
guachi
I know I’m posting a lot and I apologize.
But he was, in fact, giving her a lawful order, correct? That is, he really did, in a purely legal sense, have the authority to ask her to get out of the car, right?
There was some kind of unstates (as yet) procedure he violated. But is it true that a cop can legally ask you to get out of a car?
Uncle Ebeneezer
Cue the jack-holes who will claim that the officer was in danger because she was wielding a cigarette.
Ugh…this shit is so fucking disgusting and depressing.
guachi
@rikyrah:
I take it you’ve never been depressed enough to contemplate suicide.
Tom Q
@rikyrah: Do a little research into depression. It’s remarkably resistant to circumstance, The guy who directed Searching for Sugar Man committed suicide shortly after winning the Oscar.
She was humiliated, thrown into jail, kept there without recourse. For someone susceptible to depression, that’s plenty to set off a downward spiral.
Montysan0
@rikyrah:
Perhaps she feared the arrest was going to cost her that dream job?
Steve From Antioch
@Davis X. Machina: exactly. Anyone who says “she was well within her rights” does not have a clue about those rights
But all aboard the outrage bandwagon… Choo, choo….
cokane
@rikyrah: nonsense is pretending you know what happened
batgirl
@guachi:
I have a long history of suffering from depression. Being depressed does not necessarily mean being suicidal. Accepting a new job and moving across the country would be very difficult for a suicidal, depressed person. Not buying it. Something smells rotten here.
Davis X. Machina
@Steve From Antioch: They probably have no idea how much those rights have been eroded, and how recently…
The combination of Atwater and RIverside v. McLaughlin basically mean whenever you get into your car, plan for a 72 hour trip…. 48 hours M-Th.
SatanicPanic
I don’t want to watch it. I will take your word for it
Matt McIrvin
@Schlemazel: Radley Balko is pretty good on these subjects, and as far as I know he’s a libertarian. Writes for Cato and Reason, at least.
On Sandra Bland, he’s currently pointing out that jailhouse suicides (which he does not insist this was) are disturbingly common, even among people jailed for minor charges, and that even if they are suicides and not murders, this shouldn’t comfort us at all.
JPL
This is just so sickening. Let’s be honest, the cop gets fired and then moves to another county and get hired again.
Aimai
@guachi: stop it. The more you try to explain this as anything but the most violent racism the worse i feel. There is no other explanation.
Jamey
This cop was a homicide waiting to happen. And don’t think for a moment that his colleagues and COs didn’t know it…
pseudonymous in nc
Funny how Steve from Antisocial Personality Disorder shows up in this particular thread.
Joel
@guachi: Strong overlap between those categories.
muddy
@batgirl: I know. She keeps saying that she can’t wait to get a lawyer. But then gives up the ghost and kills herself? Right. She was righteously outraged, not weeping.
And that facebook video, fuck. Good reason not to ever use facebook, if they use your own video against you in the media when you die. People are now saying she “had PTSD”. By now it’s kind of a colloquial phrase in informal situations, I’ve often observed, to being upset by something happening over and over. It’s not to say she had a clinical diagnosis. Or one of serious depression. If everyone in America who took an anti-depressant was in danger of suicide at any moment half the country would be hospitalized.
schrodinger's cat
Election season must be approaching, trolls are getting more numerous.
RK
Why kill her? Suicide seems more likely especially given her mental history and it’s not unheard of after being jailed. Unfortunately blacks are second class citizens when it comes to law enforcement and this woman is now a statistic.
mike in dc
@batgirl:
Ditto. Most depressives never attempt suicide, even under stressful circumstances. Added to that is that Ms. Bland allegedly suffered some injuries during her arrest and incarceration which would make it even more unlikely that she would have the wherewithal to do herself in, in the manner in which she was found.
rikyrah
Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
#SandraBland says “I have epilepsy” and the cop yells “GOOD!” while slamming her to the ground.
Horrific.
Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
#SandraBland says over and over again, that she will take the case to court. Yet, we’re supposed to believe she committed suicide.
REALLY?!
JPL
@RK: Suppose she killed herself. She was in a jail for not signalling a lane change and not putting out her cigarette. So why again was she in a jail, able to kill herself?
Snarki, child of Loki
Why won’t the tobacco lobby rush to Sandra Blank’s defense? That cop was clearly a butt-grabber, he should be ashamed of himself.
Little Boots
god this fucking country, sometimes.
J R in WV
I’m with John. If she actually committed suicide, it was because of the mistreatment by the “law enforcement officer” who rousted her for nothing.
I’m an old gray white dude, heavy set, bearded, long hair where I’m not bald. I’m always polite to the officer, because I’m scared to death fo people with guns. They are (so far) very polite back to me, and usually I get a warning, if anything.
But I’m not black. I’m white, and polite. Never fuck with a person who is carrying a gun. Never! Even if you have one too…
Little Boots
suicide? really? oh, god.
kc
You can just tell that it’s bugging him that she’s not deferential. Then when she tells him he’s the reason she’s irritated (in response to his questioning her), he just can’t take it. You can see his rage mounting.
What a nightmare.
kindness
Somehow I suspect the blowback from the minorities in Texas will be more subdued than N. Carolina or Missouri. Gee, I wonder why?
JPL
@J R in WV: We all need to teach our children that there are good cops and bad cops and you always say the same thing… yes sir.
Then we need to send the message to the police union leader and say you happy now, cuz I’m raising my children to think you are assholes.
Aleta
Cameras are not enough to prevent murder by police. Not even enough to get a trial. It’s not good enough for candidates to only mention body cams as the solution to police violence.
(The Taser company is marketing its own body cam packages to police departments now, with the claim that they will prevent claims against the police from going to trial, so save money for cities. At least some of that money will instead go to the company supplying the cameras, of course — for systems management, storage, upgrades, support.)
kc
@guachi:
The cop lost it because she didn’t kiss his ass.
Little Boots
I seriously don’t know what you do about cop killing. they are the ones who investigate.
RK
@JPL: I thought I addressed that when I said blacks are treated as second class citizens by law enforcement. Should’ve been clearer.
Renie
I was watching the video and when he pulls the gun to force her out of the car, I just was in shock! Knowing what happened to her, I couldn’t watch anymore, it was both upsetting and infuriating what this cop was doing. I sincerely hope there is justice for this poor woman. These guys all need to go to prison.
Jill
Waller County is where the county clerk, several years ago, attempted to prevent the Prairie View A&M students vote in national elections because their IDs reflected their ‘temporary’ school address. They shut down the highway walking in to town to protest. If there was anywhere this could have happened, Waller County is that place.
kc
@Steve From Antioch:
Why aren’t you outraged? Didn’t you watch the video? It’s inescapably obvious that the only reason he ordered her out of the car was because she dissed him. I mean, the stop should have been over at that point. The cop was getting increasingly pissed only because she didn’t suck up to him.
I would think anyone of any political stripe other than proud fascist would be outraged and disgusted by this.
kwAwk
A year ago I would not have believed this type of shit existed.
ms_canadada
@Little Boots: Exactly. That makes the investigation ‘neat& tidy.’
to paraphrase Shakespeare, “Something’s rotten in America.”
My heart goes out to her family. What should have been a celebratory occasion is now a tragedy. FCUK!
Mike in NC
Can’t wait to see the Letters to the Editor claiming “She must have been guilty of something” because the police are our saviors from those people.
guachi
@Aimai:
Then feel bad. Because, unless I missed it, he doesn’t use any particular words that indicate he’s racist vice just being a raging control freak. Although I hope we have more evidence forthcoming that can clearly say which is which. To believe it can only be racism is to believe a cop could never be out of control with anyone else. We don’t live in that world.
This situation is so bad it’s basically a version of pick your poison. Suicide or murder. Racist or not racist. Any of the four possible combinations is bad. And I haven’t seen enough to completely eliminate any option.
I will say that, simply because she was a black woman, that suicide is far less likely than if it were a white man. White men commit suicide about 9x more often than black women. Although a major part of the man/woman difference is the use of firearms.
And a Radley Balko article today says that, in prison, whites are disproportionately likely to commit suicide (as they are in the general public)
kc
We have GOT to change laws so that there are consequences for cops who abuse their authority and departments who let them do it.
Little Boots
@ms_canadada:
especially when somebody black is involved.
we are, damn, we are not good people.
Kay
@Davis X. Machina:
Right, but he needs her out of the car to physically restrain and then arrest her. That has to happen first. Her awareness of what is happening and how it will only end one way is what kills me, because that’s the lie, right? That if she had “complied” by getting out of the car she wouldn’t have been arrested. Yes, she would have. The decision to arrest was made the moment she wouldn’t put out the cigarette. I’ve come to believe it’s why people who have been arrested several times resist. They know it doesn’t matter. Comply, don’t comply, doesn’t matter.
Ruckus
@JPL:
Blacks have been having to do this for a very long time. I can not imagine that there is a black person that does not know this. It’s still very, very wrong that they have to do this. But I can also imagine that having to do this once in a great while, for a white person, and not expecting at all of being arrested, beaten or killed, and frequently for a black person while quite possibly arrested, beaten or killed would be greatly different. I also imagine it is grating, tiring, stressful and very maddening. At the very least. It pisses me off and I’m in that white category.
Ruckus
@kc:
Answered your own question.
Mandalay
@guachi:
I don’t. I take it as a sign that the cop will be thrown under the bus, and will not get departmental support. In that scenario there is no reason for the police department to needlessly get flak for being accused of not allowing the public to see what happened.
The only thing worse than releasing that awful video is not releasing it.
rikyrah
@Montysan0:
She got a job with an HBCU who knew all about the law enforcement down there.
Stop trying to whitesplain why Sandra Bland was MURDERED.
kc
@Ruckus:
Heh. Probably right.
Tree With Water
Democratic presidential candidates could do worse than heed Tom Petty and put themselves in the shoes of black Americans- if only because their numbers represent a vital percentage of the party’s rank and file. If any need prompting to engage in some serious reflecting, they should put those shoes on ask themselves, “Why should I vote for that honky”? I know legislation has been proposed about a federal database for tracking police shootings, but that’s not nearly good enough. For starters, I would favor legislation that would mandate a federal review of all police shootings. These killings must be ended, and the fight taken to those who stand in the way.
Aleta
@batgirl: She was looking forward to taking this cop to court, too. And made a call that morning about posting bail. There’s a video on Livestream of the sheriff giving an informal interview to two activists. He claims that she hung herself while sitting down. I don’t believe it. What you say about depression vs suicide is right on target. Depression actually impairs many suicide attempts because It makes it so hard to function. Anyway, thanks for what you said.
ms_canadada
This beautiful young woman is DEAD. It makes me sick. I will never believe she took her life. I know about suicide. My husband took his life on March 2.
This young woman was on a career path to greater success. They killed her. My heart weeps.
This madness has to stop.
Good night all.
kc
@guachi:
I believe that is the case*. But you can clearly see from the video that he had NO REASON to do so. The stop was almost over, or should have been. It’s obvious that he was pissed because her attitude wasn’t deferential.
*Hope a commenter with some criminal justice knowledge will weigh in here.
Little Boots
I have never, ever, had a cop ask me anything. white is so fucking white.
TaMara (BHF)
Can’t watch. It all sounds as horrific as I imagined. I’m still wondering how there can be any question about Tamir Rice being murdered. I’m naive like that.
But thinking aloud here (and just speculating so don’t all jump all over me), what if she died in custody (medical emergency that they ignored, not like that’s never happened before, Denver has settled two of those cases in the last two years) and panicked (stupid, arrogant?) cops decided to try to pass it off as suicide?
Probably done it before and just assumed everyone would roll over and say, whatcanyouexpectfromdumbcriminals, no one would question their authority.
That might explain no one entering the hallway between last contact and death.
Ruckus
@Kay:
For some cops it does matter. Not in a good way but it does matter. You dis them in any way and they are going to teach you a lesson. You don’t do exactly as they want, legal or not, they are going to teach you a lesson. If that lesson means you die, so what, most likely that will cost them nothing. For some cops the only life that matters is their own.
I agree with you, at some point being arrested again and again, is going to lose it’s value as, from a police viewpoint, a corrective message. If you know that what you did or didn’t do is minor and yet you keep getting arrested, at some point you are going to realize that it isn’t you, it’s the cops.
TS
@RK:
Dead men (women) tell no tales – next question.
gf120581
@kc: Sometimes that’s all it takes. And while African-Americans and other minorities are the most at risk, any could end up in the crosshairs. Some cops just go berzerk if they aren’t treated with complete and utter fawning respect. Any sense of defiance or attitude is enough to get a baton up the head, or a taser in the stomach or worse. In this poor woman’s case, far worse.
Mandalay
@RK:
Maybe it’s just me, and I’m sure it wasn’t your intention to offend, but I think your phrasing there leaves a bit to be desired.
guachi
@Little Boots:
I have. And I’m white. I had been driving for hours and hours. I think I was on hour 14 of 16 and was speeding through Richmond, VA. Speed limit had changed as I entered the city limits but I hadn’t changed my cruise control. I looked like hell. My car was a mess. And my muscles were shaky from being in a car for 14 hours and actually having to move a bit after being stopped.
Reminded me of how sore I was at Obama’s inaugural in 2008 waiting for him to drive by so I could salute. Senator Kennedy was sick and everything took hours longer and I was at parade rest for something like 5 hours.
I got asked if I would get out and they could search my car.
TS
@guachi:
Did you miss his treatment of white vs black driver? Did you miss how upset he was after finding NOTHING to charge her with other than getting out of HIS way.
Little Boots
@guachi:
honest question.
did you worry about your life?
Tree With Water
@Ruckus: I’ve long felt the country would be a better place if everyone in it got hassled by a king shit cop by the age of 21.
Ohio Mom
@ms_canadada: I’m so very sorry, you have my condolences.
Redshift
@kwAwk: As has been said before, we don’t have a recent epidemic of black people getting killed by police, we have a recent epidemic of white people knowing about black people getting killed by police.
Splitting Image
@Tree With Water:
Unfortunately, that would imply an even greater supply of king shit cops than are already out there.
GregB
Can’t we get the anti-authoritarians on board with a police officer demanding that a citizen put out a lawfully smoked cigarette.
Seems the woman was afraid of what would happen to her if she submitted to this fascist.
She was fucking right.
east is east
Could not finish watching. Too upsetting. Fucking cops.
TaMara (BHF)
@ms_canadada: I’ve been thinking about you and hoping you are finding your way. I cannot begin to imagine what you’ve been going through, but glad to cross paths on occasional threads. And I appreciate your insight in this thread.
Little Boots
this is all omnes fault.
kc
@gf120581:
Yes. Members of minority groups are much more likely to have an encounter with LE, due to racial bias, but: An LE encounter can go south quickly for almost anyone.
I wish more people realized this. I hate to be cynical, but if some people perceive LE abuse of power as something that can only happen to “other” people, then they’re not going to get on board with any reform effort.
wasabi gasp
Is this how you all deal with cops?
kc
@ms_canadada:
Oh my gosh. I’m so sorry.
guachi
@TS:
Unfortunately, there isn’t enough of the previous stop shown to know WHY the white driver was treated better. I’d certainly like to see an interview with her. Maybe her stop wasn’t total bullshit like Bland’s was and, therefore, she had no reason to be upset. Maybe it was but the cop didn’t freak because she’s white.
I can’t believe Bland would have been upset if her stop had been reasonable. If her stop was reasonable it probably turns out like the thousands of boring traffic stops that occur every day (just like the one before). And the unreasonable stop occurs before the cop even knows the race or sex of the person he’s pulling over (at least, I think it does. It’s possible, I suppose, he could see who he was pulling over through the rear window)
smintheus
The car that passed the cop before he sped off changed lanes without using a directional. And the red car he’d pulled over took off into the traveling lane without using a directional.
Seriously, you give a warning to someone who’s speeding and doesn’t have proper insurance info in the vehicle, and chat her up, and then tailgate someone else dangerously and then arrest and beat them for pulling over considerately?
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
Dashcam Video of Violent Arrest of Sandra Bland Was Edited
via jaunte @ Little Green Footballs
gian
@Kay:
For what it’s worth I think he’d decided to arrest before. He was in the car doing database searches and he approached with an increased attitude.
Svensker
@ms_canadada:
Oh gosh, so sorry to hear that. That’s heartbreaking. Big hugs.
Juju
@TaMara (BHF): When I heard Sandra Bland say that the officer hit her head so hard on the pavement that she couldn’t hear anything, my first thought was some sort of traumatic brain injury. If she lost her hearing, that was enough of a head slam to kill her, especially if she received no medical attention. Think of Sonny Bono or Natasha Richardson. She didn’t kill herself.
SatanicPanic
@guachi: Weren’t you jumping on BLM protesters the other day? I’m starting to see a pattern
Little Boots
sometimes, we need to …
well, nevermind.
Damien
US Supreme Court case Pennsylvania v. Mimms: officers don’t need a reason to get you out of the car.
My take, from someone who wrestles with these issues daily:
The officer had a justified stop, had written a warning ticket, just as he had done for his previous driver. She had attitude, so he decided to ask her out of the car. Again, he doesn’t have to have a reason to get her out. The usual one is officer and motorist safety, but there doesn’t need to be a reason. Her failure to accede to his lawful order constituted an arrest-able offense of resisting or obstructing an officer, and he was justified in using the minimum necessary force to effect that arrest. While he pulled his taser he didn’t deploy it.
Now, I have zero clue what his department policies are, and to what extent those were violated, but I didn’t see or hear anything unlawful on the part of the officer in the first 16 minutes of the video.
Another Holocene Human
@kindness: Did you see the “Signal lane change or cops might kill you” sign that went up?
Patricia Kayden
Just seeing that video of Sandra Bland on The Last Word. Blood is boiling. That cop needs to be fired for making a false arrest. There was no basis for ordering her out of the car. Hope the family’s lawsuit bankrupts the city. I can’t imagine what her loved ones are going through watching that video.
Another Holocene Human
@TaMara (BHF): That happened in one of the Prime Suspects. The series had a kind of cynical view of police, without making them out to be cartoon villains.
I’m too chicken to watch the video.
jl
@gian:
” For what it’s worth I think he’d decided to arrest before. He was in the car doing database searches and he approached with an increased attitude. ”
If he knew she had minor dope record, then he might have decided to find (or make up) some dope, find or put something in the car. She was driving her own car from Ohio, I take it?
So, you got driving while black, plus out of state plates plus a good pretext for a nice dope possession bust. Call me cynical…maybe.
Why did he ask her to put out the cigarette? So he could make a pretext for smelling something for search? (edit or a ‘search’?)
MazeDancer
Here are the time marks of editing according to several tweets:
25:18
26:06
26:29
26:40
32:38
33:05
33:24
33:56
34:06
Article link at
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: post #114 in this thread
Katharsis
@kc: This. I can not believe that this is legal, and no I am not an expert. She was trying to protect herself and that was the only thing she thought she could do (and in hindsight was right to think that way). Then he pulled his gun on her. Cops anywhere/everywhere can do this? You get pulled over and now you are an enemy of the state until said otherwise by who ever is given a gun and a badge by local law enforcement? WTF!? If that much latitude is given these guys then no wonder they can act with impunity. If this is legal then we already live in a police state, you just don’t know it till you have a gun pointed at you.
Patricia Kayden
@Tree With Water: A federal review of police killings would be great. There are so many though that it would be costly and resource heavy. I can’t see Republicans supporting such a review so it could be an Executive Action under President Clinton.
Another Holocene Human
@Juju: I knew someone who had a TBI and died in her sleep very shortly thereafter. Quite possible.
I think I read that African American women are the demographic least likely to commit suicide in the US.
IMO all “suicides” in custody are suspicious. But this one is more suspicious.
Little Boots
needs more omnes.
Another Holocene Human
@SatanicPanic: Me too.
Tree With Water
@Splitting Image: Never looked at it like that before, but you’re right.
Another Holocene Human
@Katharsis: Women have been raped by law enforcement at traffic stops. Yeah, they get away with a lot.
Little Boots
this place.
although this place.
love this place.
Little Boots
and … miss omnes.
gian
@jl:
It feels like he was anticipating that it would physical and wanted the cigarette out in the car before it did. But that’s just my read of the delay and body language.
After some of the argument outside the car he tries to show paperwork for a written warning. Rather than give her that warning he spends time I think running her in the databases and then seems to go back to the car with a much worse attitude.
It reminds me of the summary execution of mr. Scott in s. Carolina for running for a child support warrant.
But I’m unable to read minds. I just get a vibe that he wants the cigarette out when he goes for the handcuffs.
Little Boots
this place, but miss omnes. this place.
guachi
@gian:
I’m wondering if you’re not correct.
I rewatched the end of white girl’s stop and beginning of Bland’s again. They aren’t noticeably different. Lots of “OKs” and “all rights”. The only thing I can hear Bland say is “I didn’t give you my license?” and the reply is a rather polite “No, ma’am”.
He’s just as polite with Bland as with the white girl. Then he gets back from checking his computer-thing and it all goes downhill.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: Me three
Emma
@guachi: Jesus H. Christ. Is your middle name Contrarian? You’re the kind of guy that make debate societies hated in college.
dogwood
@Little Boots:
“this is all Omnes fault.”
Don’t start that crap in a thread like this. It’s old and bring in open threads. What’s wrong with you?
glasnost
Some thoughts.
– I don’t know if the cop broke the law in any way, violated regulations, etc. It would be nice if that was true, but life isn’t nice. I do know and agree that this is immoral behavior, terrible policing, and ugly. This isn’t how things should be done.
– I’m skeptical that this was murder. Sorry, guys. It’s not because cops are too good to commit murder. But most police shootings occur during arrest, as you may have noticed, when cops can claim they are in reasonable fear for their lives. Prisons are terrible places. People die from untreated medical conditions and get beaten by guards. But I have heard of very few cases of police officers killing suspects in jail before trial. It’s a lot harder to make a claim you’re in fear of your life from a defintionally unarmed prisoner locked in a cell. If you don’t believe me, look at the homicide investigation being opened. If she was killed to cover up …. something, this is the world’s most incompetent coverup.
Also, there’s nothing to cover up. Prior to her dying, from what we know so far, cop had very little to fear. The problem is what is legal. Murdering a prisoner to cover up rough and bullying behavior during and arrest makes no sense. It’s like blowing up a courthouse to try to cover your DUI.
– If I was part of a community excessively targeted by cops, I’d believe this was racist. But speaking as a white person who has been bullied by cops, I agree with other posters who want African Americans to know – this isn’t only your problem. And it’s good that it isn’t only your problem. If it was only your problem, to be very honest, I could ignore it. Like it’s easy to ignore slave labor in Malaysia. I care more about this because it’s also my problem. I know this video creates a simple image of “nice to the white lady, beats up the African-American”, but you, as a person/officer, don’t develop a side of yourself that explodes when questioned and then turn it off and on like a light switch. Cops have actually shot a lot of white people this year. Not as many per capita as they have shot Hispanics and African-Americans, but still a large number. Look it up.
This is good. It’s good that every ethnic community in America have plenty of people that have been scared shitless by cops. That’s part of why Reason Magazine is up for police reform, that’s why the conservative community is split and you can find reports of this stuff on HotAir.com that aren’t total kneejerk whitewashing. It’s why this could potentially get better.
Cops are good at victimizing those with the least recourse the most, and that includes African-Americans and other minorities. But they’re only good. Not great. White criminals, and even just suspicious looking teenagers, get beaten and mistreated and pushed around by cops. It definitely happens.
The problem is that the comment-a-verse doesn’t seem to understand just how few people can really do anything about this. I’m not saying that there aren’t federal laws that couldn’t help, that we can’t all find some way to support the cause. But in the end, the mayor, the police chief, and the leadership of the department, and the officers themselves are the people that can force the officers to change their behavior. Random people like us have no leverage. Protests, marches, cameras, media coverage… you can throw this stuff at the problem and maybe cops will choose to behave differently and maybe they won’t. If they don’t, ….. what?
Nothing.
jl
@guachi: I’d be interested in opinion from lawyers, but I really think he came back with the idea that he could find or make something for a bigger bust, after finding out whatever he found with the data base search. I’d be interested if someone familiar with law enforcement or a lawyer could address that issue.
Little Boots
@dogwood:
can we all anger omnes. tina.\\https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUL68ZeclcA
why must omnes be angry
dogwood
@dogwood:
Correction: its old and BORING in open threads.
But I see that she’s gonna keep on with it. White privilege in action.
Joel
@glasnost: “People die from untreated medical conditions and get beaten by guards. ”
= murder
kc
@guachi:
He starts out okay with Bland, but it looks to me like he’s a bit tense walking back to his cad after the first time he talks to her. You can hear that her responses are short and terse. I think he’s already annoyed that she’s not kissing his butt.
Then when he asks her why she’s annoyed and she tells him . . . he starts really escalating.
kc
@Patricia Kayden:
Amen to every word of that.
Fair Economist
@jl:
Or maybe she came up as a BLM activist.
gian
@jl:
Given how the media has handled the other high profile cases if she stole a crayon in kindergarten we’ll hear about it.
Jack the Second
I was once pulled over on a bull-shit nothing excuse (“swerving”; I can’t recall swerving, but then, if I noticed I was swerving I wouldn’t have). He glanced in the cab of the vehicle, glanced at my license, and sent me on my way. The entire stop was well under a minute.
My assumption is that he essentially lost interest when he saw I was a regular looking white dude, and didn’t want to waste time that could be spent on juicier prey.
Tree With Water
District Attorney Mathis: “Sandra Bland was very combative. It was not a model traffic stop. It was not a model person that was stopped..”.
I was unaware there is such a thing as a “model person” in this country. I thought the pursuit of happiness obviated the need to for such a monstrous construct, standing as it must in diametrical opposition to any concept of personal liberty. Superfluous to add, I am no one’s model person.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Jesus fucking Christ. No. I was just going to read this thread and not comment because I really don’t have anything to say that hasn’t been said before but no. Don’t do that stuff on this thread.
guachi
@kc:
I relistened trying to hear her better. I think you’re right that after he says something like “I’ll be a few minutes, all right?” She says “Ok” in, as a you say, a short and terse tone.
But he had four minutes to calm down and didn’t.
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thank you.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
okay, don’t be angry. wow. you are so angry sometimes.
Little Boots
damn, you know I like you, right.
TS
@dogwood: thanks for trying – I agree
Little Boots
omnes, why are you so pissed?
TS
@Fair Economist:
Or maybe nothing came up & that annoyed him more – because he REALLY wanted to arrest her. Given we have heard nothing about her “previous” from the usual sources, seems likely to me there was nothing there.
Brachiator
@ms_canadada: Very sorry to hear of your loss. You have my condolences. And thank you for commenting about suicide. It is sad that you have to become knowledgeable about this.
Little Boots
miss omnes.
Little Boots
no omnes?
Gvg
Depression is not logical. Dream job doesn’t prove anything. You should know in case you ever encounter anyone prone to it.
however I am totally suspicious of this whole case. too many bad cop stories the last year plus.I guess it was going on all along but videos are changing our knowledge.
I have read far too many student petitions about depression in the last 15 years. it’s not logical or that related to actual circumstances. people think it should be so they blame whatever bad thing happens near them, even if the only “cause” they can see is the neighbors dad died. this means you can’t prove someone wasn’t depressed by showing that logically they shouldn’t be.
The story doesn’t seem to hang together, but that may be because I have seen too many police departments lie recently. I want a medical exam from some neutral expert third party. guess that has to be FBI but are they reliable either? How can we solve the justice issue if we can’t provide enough clean investigators to check all the problems?
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Looks to me as if she failed to come to a complete stop before she made her right onto the main drag. Had the idiot with the badge called her on that, I can imagine the scenario working itself out very differently.
Little Boots
uh huh, omnes, uh huh.
The Thin Black Duke
Maybe Sandra Bland was depressed because she was an African-American woman living in White America. And as writer Sam Greenlee observed, ” On every target that I have seen in my life, the bull’s-eye has always been black.”
Little Boots
you know, miss you, honey, by the way.
Summer
@Omnes Omnibus: What the f*ck is wrong with this person? It’s not funny, it’s not interesting, and especially on a thread like this it makes me feel like I’m participating in something genuinely awful. Please help shut it down.
Gian
@Gvg:
Oddly (and we witnessed this in a relative) an improvement in mood can lead someone act on suicidal thoughts they were too depressed to act on before.
it’s partially why the commercials for anti-depressants warn of suicide risks.
That said, I don’t know what happened in the cell. The radio reported the video is motion activated in the jail and there was no outside motion. Is the video doctored? Are the cops who run the jail from the same police agency as the ones who arrested her?
John Revolta
It was not a model person that was stopped..”.
OMG I can’t even.
May these awful words haunt this POS until the end of days.
cckids
@kc:
This. We’re awfully white, but we trained our son (he’s 22 now) to follow the “yes sir, no sir” mantra ANY time he is ever stopped by a cop. The Vegas Metro cops have quite the rep as being assholes just because they can. Our son is a long-haired art student who has a tendency to be a smartass – just the type some cops want to harass.
I do not want it to get him killed at some point.
mouse tolliver
A suggestion:
“Policing in this country is fucking insane, and this cop and those who
killedlynched her (yes, I think she wasmurderedlynched) belong in jail.”apocalipstick
@TaMara (BHF): That is what I thought might have happened–a severe head injury that occurred when he slammed her onto the ground/pavement. When she died, panic ensued and a hasty attempt to cover it up took place. Still murder, though.
wasabi gasp
@TS:
Unfurl the foil.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Dude, just stop it. Or if you are going to be an ass, don’t use my ‘nym. If my ‘nym is going to be used to fuck up a thread, I’ll do it myself. I don’t appreciate what you are doing, and the other commenters deserve more courtesy.
@Summer: I thought ignoring him after my first comment might work. Sorry.
rikyrah
@mouse tolliver:
Thank you
Alex
It’s like some horror show version of the old Eddie Murphy “White Like Me” skit.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Little Boots: Will you please knock it the fuck off? Some of us are trying to discuss something quite serious and disturbing. It isn’t all about you, and it’s not fair to Omnes to use his name to be a douchecopter.
Little Boots
all the leaves are brown:
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=Lkry&hsimp=yhs-SF01&p=all%20the%20leaves%20are%20brown&type=YHS_SF_2200¶m1=iyzTqxyuayxkXZEXjiqI44smW9UdeThDjBlbfLknSTRZdOdFxjgUcBiGiLgpnMao0_Az7Sw_uUdZCp0HiLdXiLF2f4TtVix5brQzDqYHLru0lnxx7eEzNUX2nsy_7k-QSA%2c%2c
Summer
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. I know it’s not you. I usually stop reading if I see this person start to comment like this, but this time, on a thread of this subject, it’s making me sick and angry and feeling complicit in something ugly and I really appreciate your comment. Hopefully it will help.
Little Boots
and love the omnes.
east is east
I got pulled over by a cop on my way home from work on Saturday. I was all yessur, nosur. This for a 52 in a 40. He let me go without a ticket. I’m so happy I had to kiss his ass for driving home from work.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I tried putting Little Boots into the pie filter once because it’s the constant derailing of threads that is the major problem. It didn’t help, because of the constant posting of short unrelated comments all I got were a whole bunch of posts about pie. It’s still disrupting. Especially in a post of a subject matter as vitally important as this one. Every time he starts, the post is done for me.
ETA I know you don’t support him nor cause him to be a douche, that’s all on him.
Little Boots
@Ruckus: @Ruckus:
you can’t. everyone loves me, sooner or later, everyone loves me.
Bobby Thomson
@Little Boots: were you dropped on your head as a child? Shut the fuck up, asshole.
Little Boots
@Bobby Thomson: @Bobby Thomson:
really? there is no stopping me.
you dick.
Ruckus
@Little Boots:
I’ll tell you again for the last fucking time.
Fuck the Fuck off, you Fucking useless asshole.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Little Boots: You really don’t understand context and what’s inappropriate, do you? That excuse has worn awfully thin, dude.
Please stop. Or go do something else and let the rest of us discuss this.
wasabi gasp
Everything goes better with Boots.
Little Boots
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
sorry, cunt. sorry. I don’t get it.
Little Boots
what is wrong with this place.
ruemara
I dunno. I’m in a FB feud with a friend who is completely pissed at BLM over Santo Bernadino. His only comment on this was that it’s not like Jeb or Ted will be able to deal with this either. People have some serious shit for brains on this issue and I’m worn out on it.
Little Boots
@wasabi gasp:
exactly.
dww44
@the Conster: It was ever thus.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: That’s it. I am done with you. I don’t pie people, but this is the last comment you will ever get from me. Fuck off.
east is east
@Little Boots: You’re Donald Trump.
spudvol
The video has been edited…don’t know how important it is but someone has messed with it.
http://bennorton.com/dashcam-video-of-violent-arrest-of-sandra-bland-was-edited/
Joel Hanes
@JPL:
E. L. Doctorow died
I like Loon Lake much better than Ragtime or World’s Fair
Hardly anyone agrees with me.
Mandalay
Sandra Bland’s mother is not going to forgive, and I don’t blame her at all:
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Little Boots</ Using that term to address a female male nym (or a woman) is generally beyond the pale even in a pretty rough crowd. Fuck off. And note that I'm not the only poster who's sick of your distracting garbage.
Joel Hanes
@Little Boots:
there is no stopping me
Apparently.
Alas.
I’ve never seen you make a worthwhile comment. Pure pink noise.
east is east
ouch. It takes a lot for the balloon juicers to kick someone to the curb, and I speak from experience, being a major league idiot.
Omnes Omnibus
And now he has managed to derail the thread.
Anne Laurie
@Little Boots: New thread up top — take it there, if you’re not smart enough to just sign off for the night.
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You’re a valued commenter here, but I’ve never understood your willingness to engage with little boots. Cole is never going to ban anyone from this blog, so all we can do is try to take care of it ourselves. Thanks again.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: I have come as close tonight to asking for someone to get a time out as I ever have. Between the fact that his stalking of me has reached the point where asking him to chill out no longer works and the utterly unacceptable comment to Bella Q, I teetered.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Scaramouche starting on TCM. Palate-cleansing.
John Cole
Little Boots- this is a serious thread. Knock off the bullshit or I am going to give you a time out. Open threads with your incessant one-two word posts are one thing, but here it is inappropriate. People are trying to have a discussion and you are acting like a litle child yelling “Mom Mom Mom Mom Mom Mom.”
Knock it off.
Omnes Omnibus
@dogwood: He seemed mostly harmless. Usually his stuff was on late night threads where nothing of consequence was being discussed. When it wasn’t, he generally took a hint. The comment to Bella Q was beyond the pale though.
John Cole
NM. I just now saw the C- bomb. That’s a week.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: Truth be told, I seriously considered going back & pulling that comment, but I only do that on my own posts.
Epitaph that should be on more tombstones: But he MEANT well!
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack (phone): Watching it now.
mark
@John Cole:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/03/24/black-woman-locked-in-psych-ward-for-8-days-because-cops-couldnt-believe-shes-a-businesswoman/
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: @Steeplejack (phone): So far, I prefer the silent version from a month or two ago.
Aleta
@spudvol: Those edits are considerable. And appear during the part when the officer is detailing his version of events to some unidentified person, as though over the phone. It surely seems to me as though he is covering his actions by adding some voice at a later time to the tape. Is there any other conclusion from the edits and replays on the tape?
Another thing about this conversation: while he clearly (eventually) tells Ms. Bland during the encounter that she is being arrested for resisting, during this later conversation he discusses assault as appropriate. Making sure to mention some sort of scuff mark on his pants, and some mark on his hand/wrist that was made by three links of the handcuff chain. This is the extent of his new claim of assaulting an officer.
Omnes Omnibus
@Aleta: You can’t arrest someone for resisting arrest.
cmorenc
Both the officer and Sandra Bland were acting with escalating idiocy in this incident, and frankly, Ms Bland initiated the idiocy with her senselessly rude, prickly demeanor toward the officer, who was at first professionally polite toward her. THAT SAID, nothing Ms Bland did justified the officer’s turn toward increasingly intemperate and physically forceful behavior toward her – he unwisely and needlessly escalated the situation into one where he could technically deal with her rude reaction toward him into “resisting arrest” because he wasn’t going to tolerate her rather ugly, but totally non-threatening disrespect in not being totally deferential toward him. In short, he went off on a power-trip where he wasn’t going to let this go without conclusively showing her who was boss by taking her forcefully into custody – even though neither the reason for the stop (failure to signal lane change) nor anything else she’d done would have otherwise justified arresting her.
A sensible police officer would have responded either by:
1) giving her a traffic ticket instead of a warning; or / and
2) calling for female backup (he might have been smart to request help from a female officer who was black herself) in dealing with Ms. Bland – i.e. someone more likely to either connect with Ms Bland and get her to adjust her attitude and get across to her that she was needlessly risking getting taken into custody.
But NOOO, he wasn’t about to let Ms Bland show him up – he had to show HER he was da boss man.
Frankly, I wouldn’t want EITHER Ms Bland OR this officer to be an employee of mine – both of them seemed to lose their shit rather easily – but in his case, the direction he took this encounter grew into something far worse than what Ms Bland did, even before taking into account the eventual lethal consequences to her while in custody.
Omnes Omnibus
@cmorenc:
So what?
Mandalay
@cmorenc:
Jesus. On reflection, it’s probably a good thing that this thread died.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: I don’t agree with you often, but you are right.
Suzanne
I have worked closely with the staff at a number of behavioral hospitals, and I have repeatedly heard that there is no way for even trained professionals to accurately predict who is suicidal. The VA even did a study on this and concluded that there is no assessment that is better than random chance. Some people, even those who look like they are improving or are stable, are actually not. So I suppose there’s an outside chance of suicide. If that’s what happened, an autopsy will show hypoxia.
But….I really, REALLY don’t think that’s what happened. I am epileptic, and that angle interests me. I wonder if she was deprived of anti-seizure medication while in jail, or seized and didn’t get seizure first aid. If this is what happened, this is absolutely, unbelievably reprehensible. (I will also note that a friend of my mother’s sued MCSO because she was deprived of her medication while she was in Arpaio’s Tent City. This shit happens.)
Suicide does not strike me as likely.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Omnes Omnibus:
The silent version is very good, but most people have no patience for silent movies (which I don’t get). I like this version, too; it’s just sort of a big comfortable Hollywooden mess—in a good way. Like comfort food. The nostril-flaring overacting actually fits.
Aleta
@Omnes Omnibus: Texas holds no truck with your type.
Omnes Omnibus
@Aleta: I know. I am okay with that.
Ruckus
@cmorenc:
I’m still trying to remember where in the Vehicle Code or the Penal Code there is a mention of rudeness being against the law. You don’t know where she works or that she is rude at work. She got stopped for very little reason, she’s dead for doing nothing other than running into an asshole with a badge.
bago
@Tree With Water: It’s nice to have official confirmation of the 10 frisk commandments.
http://newsone.com/2025838/10-frisk-commandments-jasiri-x/
Omnes Omnibus
@cmorenc: @Omnes Omnibus: More to the point, I have reacted that way more than once during a police stop. I have never been called anything other than sir. I have never been asked to get out of my car. I have never been asked if th cop could search my car. I wonder why?
Omnes Omnibus
@bago: There is a law review article that unpacks the second verse of “99 Problems.” Generally, Jay-Z is right. Too tired right now to find the link. Sorry.
ETA, I am not too tired. Here it is.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
As others have mentioned, depression and suicide are two different animals. Depression haunts you, thoughts of suicide give you a type of clarity. If you have a plan to fix or modify a situation that is not suicidal then suicide is not an option because you don’t need it. As I’ve said before I worked at a community mental health facility where we were trained in this and I’ve spent time on the hotline with people with suicide foremost in their minds. Sandra Bland sounds like she had a workable plan. A person contemplating suicide frequently will talk about it almost to the exclusion of everything else, police/EMT/hospitals/the VA are supposed to look for the signs and start a suicide watch.
Suzanne
@Ruckus: I have also repeatedly heard some variant of: “We would never have guessed that he would have committed suicide. He never said a word. He was too depressed to tell us anything was wrong.”
Entropy
Has anyone considered (I hope so, I haven’t been able to read the entire thread yet) that this could have been avoided with the dickhead cop if she hadn’t mouthed off? The death is a separate crime I agree, but damnit I got whooped if I talked back to authority like that growing up, (and get lectured even now as a grown woman) …and it stuck. Don’t antagonize folks! Poor girl…
Katharsis
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for the link. I am dismayed that they can order you out of your vehicle and arrest you simply for anything. I guess I can just chalk this up as another casualty of the war on drugs… our rights.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@TaMara (BHF):
I’ve been wondering this as well — maybe the reason no one is seen going in or out of the cell between the last voice contact and finding her body is because she died of medical neglect (head injury or epilepsy) and those heartless assholes left her to die alone because she was just another uppity black woman in jail who kept complaining about feeling sick.
And, yes, that’s murder in my book.
Aleta
@cmorenc: Sometimes a person in a threatening encounter purposely yells, makes lots of noise, in order to attract witnesses. For example, my relative told me that she would yell loudly during fights with her physically abusive husband, in hopes that neighbors would hear her through the walls. She salso aid that (15+ years later) she still finds herself yelling sometimes when arguing with someone, because of that experience.
TriassicSands
Forget it, Jake, it’s Texas.
The “arresting” officer needs some serious anger management training (after he’s fired). But, then, that’s the type of people who are often attracted to being police officers.
I don’t know what an investigation will show happened to Ms. Bland in jail, but the police should be held responsible in some way for her death. We’ve gotten to the point where cops = thugs in this country. Police officers should not “snap” every time people don’t instantly do exactly what they’re ordered to do. As with so many other police officers we’ve seen in the past year, this one is not competent and should be removed from the force. His hyper-authoritarian approach caused this incident to escalate far beyond what it should have been. I don’t blame Ms. Bland for being upset that he pulled her over for not signaling. Most people are going to be a little nervous when a cop car pulls up behind them, so moving to the right to let him pass without signaling is completely understandable.
The question is not can his actions be justified, but rather were they necessary. The answer, as usual, is no.
Did he knowingly move Ms. Bland out of sight of the camera?
Reluctant Militant
This may have been mentioned before, but it’s very odd. Start watching at 32:30. The video continuously loops with no break in the audio of the officer explaining what happened. Crappy video recording equipment? I don’t know how those systems work, but is audio recorded separately from the video? And if so, could a glitch explain the looping? Again, very odd.
TS
@cmorenc:
The officer initiated this event by stopping a motorist WHO PULLED OVER TO LET HIM PASS
AxelFoley
@rikyrah:
Beat me to it.
This is why black folks are pissed when our so-called white progressive allies act like they don’t know why we’re upset with Dem candidates that act brand new to this.
Admiral_Komack
@Kay: Driving AND smoking a cigarette while Black=death sentence.
I have not watched the video; I don’t want to lose my temper.
AxelFoley
@Steve From Antioch: Eat shit, asshole.
AxelFoley
@cokane: Go play in traffic, bitch.
Admiral_Komack
@Tom Q:
Oh, BULLSHIT!
Admiral_Komack
@Admiral_Komack:
I’ve watched the video, and yep, I’m pissed!
The asshole let it escalate; he could have given her the warning and sent her on her way, but NO, he got pissed because would not kiss his ass AND she was well within her rights.
AxelFoley
@Mandalay:
I’m so very sorry she has to bury her child, but I’m glad she’s ready to go to war. I’m tired of black families forgiving these murderers. Fuck them all, and fuck everyone who tries to explain shit away.
AxelFoley
@Anne Laurie: Why don’t one of you front pagers or Cole ban this muthfucka? Little Boots does this shit every night.
Admiral_Komack
@Tree With Water:
District Attorney Mathis: “Sandra Bland was very combative. It was not a model traffic stop. It was not a model person that was stopped..”.
Translation: She wasn’t white.
Great blaming the victim, D.A. Dickhead.
AxelFoley
@Entropy: Man, shut the fuck up with this shit. White folks mouth off to cops quite a bit and get to drive off with their lives intact.
Please end this bullshit. It’s not illegal to talk back to cops.
RK
The cop instigated the arrest. He returns to her car and asks if she’s okay, that she looks irritated. This is the first unnecessary and provocative action because he knows why she’s irritated. After she answers him–without any real disrespect that I can see–he again provokes things with his rhetorical “Are we done?” remark. When she doesn’t quiet herself and responds he chooses to establish his supremacy by unnecessarily ordering her to extinguish her cigarette, another provocation. Since she doesn’t know his order is lawful (but recognizes it for what it is) and must be obeyed she refuses and now he’s able to perform an arrest. If he’d taken proper control of his traffic stop he would’ve let her know she’d be receiving just a warning and this tragedy would’ve been avoided.
Admiral_Komack
@kindness: Because they are one lane change away from death.
Patricia Kayden
@Admiral_Komack: It’s painful but you should watch it. I was trying to avoid it but saw it last night. Yes, it is infuriating that she was pulled over and then arrested for a minor traffic violation. It’s even more infuriating that she is now dead after spending a weekend in jail for said minor traffic violation.
The video shows an out of control cop who escalated what should have been a small fine, if anything at all. I didn’t see the part where the cop stopped the White girl first and let her go with a warning. Talk about disparate treatment.
HeartlandLiberal
Diary is up on DailyKos pointing out the YouTube video has clearly been doctored. Go to 32:20 and start watching. A white car appears, then blinks out of existence. Then seconds later reappears and turns right. Wait a few seconds. Same thing happens. And then again. The video has been doctored and that section while cop is talking replaced with incredibly amateurish loop.
You don’t have to watch the whole video, I did not. Just go to time mark, and watch the falsification of evidence by the Texas cops in all its obvious glory.
Not putting a link to make sure I comment is not pushed to moderation. On DailyKos, look at recommended diaries, title is “Sandra Bland Video Loops, Not Real”. On YouTube, look for
Sandra Bland traffic stop
Texas Department of Public Safety
B*stards. Cowards. And now exposed for the liars they are.
Hope someone archives the YouTube video, I am sure the Texas cops will take it down today as word of this obvious doctoring spreads.
Kay
@gian:
I understand what you;re saying, that was something that came up that made him decide to order her out of the car, but that isn’t what I’m talking about. You’re looking for some valid safety reason to order her out of the car but there’s an intervening event – where he asked her if why she was upset and asked her to put the cigarette out.
I think he ordered her out of the car TO arrest her. He had decided to arrest her at that point not because of safety but because he felt he was being disrespected. That’s why I don’t think it matters what she did next. The decision to arrest based on disrespect had been made. It would have been something.
brantl
@Steve From Antioch: Just as stupid as ever SFA
Aimai
@guachi: jesus christ the need to whitesplain this away is horrific. My apologies to every poster here who is black. Reading some of these comments is like being punched in the face over and over again by white “innocence”–wilfull ignorance.
brantl
@Splitting Image: I’m afraid in truth, it doesn’t. I was a teenage kid with shoulder-length hair in the early seventies, I very rarely got near anything that would involve a police interest. When I had a bike stolen, I had 3 different cops act like as big of dicks as they knew how.
Another Holocene Human
@Jack the Second: I got pulled over for speeding once at a speed trap. I wasn’t trying to speed, in fact I’d slowed down, but the signs were deceptive. They had multiple cops and that high powered light.
When they looked at my license and found out who my employer was (btw, I was sweating bullets, bc with a CDL I was looking at points) and, though I didn’t think about this at the time, my color too, they were so bored with me they didn’t even bother to tell me I could leave. They got annoyed and came back and told me to beat it. I really thought I was getting that ticket.
I didn’t realize it, but I know it, different force, same area has been known to pull over and hassle my coworkers for nothing. Made-up shit.
Another Holocene Human
@ruemara: Fuck Facebook, seriously. It does the opposite of bringing people together.
Another Holocene Human
@John Cole: THANK YOU
Another Holocene Human
@mark: WTF I CAN’T – I am dealing with a case in my union where they threatened to Baker Act this young lady … her job was on the line so she got agitated and one caregiver stated that she was in a manic state in the office … just because someone and their problems are annoying you doesn’t mean they are manic. WTF. Have you ever seen mania? I have. JESUS. Mania is not stressed and emotional because you’re under pressure.
Another Holocene Human
@Suzanne:
Do you have a link or something on this? I need some ammunition.
Kay
@gian:
This asking people questions thing “why are you upset?” “why are you so nervous?” is really common. It’s intended to provoke a response. Why does he care why she’s annoyed? What does that have to do with his job, which is issuing or not issuing a ticket based on the lane change? There are people who draw boundaries “it’s my car why do I have to put out the cigarette” or “do I have to answer that?” and there are people who don’t. The people who draw boundaries aren’t wrong and they shouldn’t have to change their behavior and become more cowed and compliant or risk arrest. She’s allowed to be annoyed. That’s not a crime.
Curious one
I haven’t seen this mentioned though I may have missed it. Are we sure the first stop was a white driver? She is a sophomore at a HBCU and predominantly black school. I’m Sure there are some whites there but isn’t it more likely that she is also black.
This doesn’t change the way I feel about the way the cop handled the stop. He is wrong on so many levels. Just not sure it fits the tidy little narrative white stop vs black stop.
Another Holocene Human
@Omnes Omnibus: That was neat.
Applejinx
@Juju: Huh. I can’t watch either, but wow.
So: cop killed her by beating her head on the ground, causing traumatic brain injury leading to death.
In jail, getting no medical attention, she dies of her injuries. No further physical attack as the deadly attack took place at the traffic stop, filmed.
Cops panic and fake a suicide, and proceed to cover up and shield the murderous cop as they do.
I wondered if it was really a ‘kill her IN custody’. Seems like that wasn’t necessary, nor was it necessary to have a whole police station of cops prepared to attack a prisoner in custody. The murder was done at the traffic stop and the effect was delayed and the whole suicide thing was a desperate coverup on the grounds that she was dead and they couldn’t un-beat her head against the ground. Only one cop had to commit murder to cause this, the rest is closing ranks against an obvious threat of investigation and the danger of justice being served upon one of their own.
Another Holocene Human
@Ruckus: @Suzanne: Isn’t suicidal tendencies based mostly on self-assessment? What if someone makes a single expression of frustration, is this now prima facie evidence they are a suicide risk at any time?
This is personal for me, any time I thought death would be the easy way out I got help as I’d been trained to do. It never escalated to plans or obsessing about it (much). Thankfully those sorts of thoughts are in the rear view mirror. There’s a great paranoia about suicides now because of that pilot in Germany but something else must have been seriously wrong with him to kill all those people. That isn’t uncomplicated depression at work. Why not crash a hang glider or something? Suicides cause anguish for those they leave behind, true, but they are convinced that nobody will miss them and will be happy that they’re gone. Wanting to kill lots of people to leave a mark on the world is something else. More Eric and Dylan if you know what I mean.
Another Holocene Human
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Maybe they doctored the tape. That was my first thought and now we see they actually doctored the dash cam.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Steve From Antioch:
Almost invariably people with “steve” in their nym here are authoritarian assholes
Kay
@gian:
Not that they’d ask me, but if I were a cop I’d worry about the diminishing value of complying. If people believe the decision to arrest is not based on fact but is instead based on some mushy “level of cowed obedience and ass-kissing” complying has less and less value because people believe they’re getting arrested anyway.
Here, they tack on “resisting” to just about every arrest. I no longer know how to tell people how NOT to resist. It’s a fucking hair trigger. Who knows? Lie down immediately and say nothing unless you’re asked something and then answer any and all questions, no matter how unrelated or intrusive?
The public shouldn’t have to do this elaborate psych eval to try to anticipate what the officer requires in order to behave professionally. The burden isn’t on them. He should expect and deal with a wide range of permissible responses, because there’s a wide range of people and they react all kinds of ways to stress. He doesn’t get to draw such narrow lines. What if people in other jobs or professions behaved like this, where the response is dictated by “respect”? It’s not about him.
Admiral_Komack
@Patricia Kayden: I did see it, and I’m pissed!
Disparate treatment and the officer escalating the encounter.
I hope all who participated in this woman’s murder get death and I hope the family of the murdered woman OWNS the fucking town!
lol
@Applejinx:
I think you’re on the right track here.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Thought about this after I posted. I worked at what was a suicide hotline. I was trained for that and for person to person peer counseling. The people calling the hotline about suicide were trying to be noticed and stopped, not unseen and successful. That skewed the population of suicide info that I got. It was also over 40 yrs ago if that changes anything.
Mandalay
@Kay:
This, so very much. Cops should fully expect the public to give non-responses, disrespectful responses, unhelpful responses, and bizarre responses all the time. That alone is not cause to escalate the situation – when you are a figure of authority dealing with people in a stressful situation those kinds of responses are completely normal.
And that is doubly true when dealing with people with mental health issues. Time and again we read about the police bragging about how they “eliminated the threat” and “protected the public” for “safety reasons”, and it turns out that the murdered victim could was simply not capable of understanding the cops, or providing the response the cops demanded.
And time and again we see cops displaying the emotional maturity of an angry child.
Summer
@TS: Thanks for writing this response so I can second it. And I appreciate the shouty all caps on her behalf. :)
Suzanne
@Another Holocene Human: I will get you some links to studies from a behavioral expert I work with.
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: Hear, hear!!!
Paul in KY
@Summer: Ditto!
PaulW
there’s been another one today, wasn’t there, of an unarmed black man getting pulled over and then shot?
we’ve gotten to the point where it would be insane for any black driver to ever pull over in the first place, and they’re better off driving for the border as fast as possible.
why even pull people over for simple, minor, why-even-bother sh-t like whether or not the turn signal was used? You’ve got the license plate, you should have the address on file, document the situation, send the warning – and for minor traffic violations just use warnings because dammit police departments will abuse the fines system – to the address, and done. They should only pull over drivers showing clear and reckless driving (weaving, excessive speeding) and even then they need to avoid dangerous car chases.
We can no longer trust the cops to handle traffic pull-overs. We just can’t.
bvac
What really sickens me is that around the same time Sandra Bland was being harassed by this cop for not using her signal, in my home town a guy pretended to be hurt in the middle of the street and carjacked a lady’s vehicle with her kids inside when she got out to help him, then carjacked a police vehicle when they cornered him on a dead end street, then ran from cops when they rammed him off the side of the highway after a twenty minute chase through several towns, then grabbed a police baton and tried to wail on the cops before they finally subdued him. He was given medical treatment and is alive today awaiting his trial.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/dash-cam-captures-dramatic-bergen-county-car-chase-charges-pile-up-for-suspect-video-1.1369938
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: You have waaaaaayyyyyy more tolerance than I. In general, that’s a good thing, I think.
Paul in KY
@mark: Holy shit!!! I hope she owns that hospital. She needs to get this copyrighted, as it would make one helluva movie.
Paul in KY
@cmorenc: If you pull me over for ‘not signaling a turn’, I’m gonna laugh in your face. Then, I will get a bit pissy.
Of course, I’m a white male….
Paul in KY
@Kay: Excellent point here!
Paul in KY
@bvac: I have to assume this nut was whitey white.
bvac
@Paul in KY: Cambodian, it seems. It’s bonkers how police actions are completely decoupled from the individuals behavior and are seemingly based on their perception of the person
Paul in KY
@bvac: Was at work & didn’t click on link. Just read your excellent synopsis. Thanks!