.@BernieSanders says he's in this race to win but experts say he is "starting his descent.” https://t.co/2JppaBuXFg pic.twitter.com/eig2nDtl4l
— Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) April 28, 2016
From the NYTimes, yesterday:
WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. — Battered by four defeats in Tuesday night’s primaries, Bernie Sanders is planning to lay off hundreds of campaign staffers across the country and focus much of his remaining effort on winning the June 7 California primary…
Despite the changes, Mr. Sanders said he would remain in the race through the party’s summer convention and stressed that he hoped to bring staff members back on board if his political fortunes improved. But political experts say the layoffs signal Mr. Sanders is beginning to accept that he will not be the Democratic nominee and is now focused on pulling the party toward a more progressive agenda.
“We want to win as many delegates as we can, so we do not need workers now in states around the country,” Mr. Sanders said in an interview. “We don’t need people right now in Connecticut. That election is over. We don’t need them in Maryland. So what we are going to do is allocate our resources to the 14 contests that remain, and that means that we are going to be cutting back on staff.”…
Rumor is that the layoffs were not handled to best-practice standards:
Wait, hold on: is Bernie talking to the media how Sanders staffers are learning they’re probably going to lose their jobs?
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 27, 2016
On the conference call, Jeff Weaver made the announcement and Sanders himself did not join the call, upsetting some true believers.
— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) April 28, 2016
By far the weirdest part of the Bernie layoffs news is the campaign's lack of money. Has to be an untold spend-side story there.
— Tom Watson (@tomwatson) April 28, 2016
Well, about that last tweet… The Washington Post, today — “Sanders is biggest spender of 2016 so far — generating millions for consultants”:
The small-dollar fundraising juggernaut that has kept Bernie Sanders’s insurgent White House bid afloat far longer than anticipated has generated another unexpected impact: a financial windfall for his team of Washington consultants.
By the end of March, the self-described democratic socialist senator from Vermont had spent nearly $166 million on his campaign — more than any other 2016 presidential contender, including rival Hillary Clinton. More than $91 million went to a small group of admakers and media buyers who produced a swarm of commercials and placed them on television, radio and online, according to a Washington Post analysis of Federal Election Commission reports.
While the vast majority of that money was passed along to television stations and websites to pay for the advertising, millions in fees were kept by the companies, The Post calculated. While it is impossible to determine precisely how much the top consultants have earned, FEC filings indicate the top three media firms have reaped payments of seven figures…
The large profits stem in part from the fact that no one in Sanders’s campaign imagined he would generate such enormous financial support. So unlike Clinton, he did not cap how much his consultants could earn in commissions from what was expected to be a bare-bones operation, according to campaign officials.
That has meant big payouts for the firm of senior strategist Tad Devine, which has produced the bulk of the campaign’s ads; Old Towne Media, a small media placement operation run by two of Devine’s longtime buyers; and Revolution Messaging, a digital firm led by veterans of President Obama’s 2008 campaign.
And the commissions may continue to pile up, even though Sanders’s chances of securing the Democratic nomination have been all but extinguished. After he lost four out of the five states that held primaries Tuesday, his campaign began laying off 225 staffers around the country. But Sanders is still actively seeking donations, and he has said repeatedly that he plans to press on through the California primary in early June, an effort that could include more expensive advertising. “So long as we have a path toward victory, no matter how narrow it may be, we’ll pursue it,” the senator told The Post on Wednesday…
Does the Sanders team really think contesting California could increase his influence at the convention? If anything, it HURTS him
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 27, 2016
Exactly. He'd have more influence if he turned the millions for CA ads over to state parties in battlegrounds. https://t.co/mgiLh4ezSk
— Greg Pinelo (@gregpinelo) April 27, 2016
.
*(title explained)
Baud
This is why I only used unpaid interns.
redshirt
Today was remarkable in that the Bernie v. Hillary supporters battles were completely gone. I hope they don’t come back.
Baud
@redshirt:
Springtime is a time for renewal.
Mike J
I wonder what the deal is with not filing his FEC returns. Too busy is a pretty lame excuse.
eemom
I heard today that he’s “pivoting” to work for a progressive Democratic agenda. Was I misinformed?
Baud
@Mike J:
Have all the others filed? I assume it’s normal to ask for an extension, but maybe not.
Emma
Christ, that is crass. People have worked their asses off for you, at least you owe them the decency of a personal explanation.
Tom Levenson
@srv: That was one of the great takeaways from 2012. The business titan Romney campaign was a badly run textbook case of misallocated resources and poor strategic thinking. The community organizer Obama campaign was incredibly well managed.
The Bernie cavalcade is revealing; the one virtue of long, painful, technically complex American political campaigns is it does provide a test of at least some of the skills one would like to see in an administration. That’s the exam Bernie’s having his problems with.
singfoom
So, if after California, HRC has enough delegates to win on the first vote at the convention….why would Sanders continue? On the within the realm of the possible, but outside the realm of the likely scheme where he convinces the superdelegates to switch their vote to him….because reasons?
As I’ve said before, I’m glad he’s been in this race and his campaign has done good things for the conversation around policy, but it seems to me like he would be….less than wise to continue his campaign after CA if HRC wins the requisite number of delegates.
Baud
@Tom Levenson:
I wouldn’t put Bernie in Romney territory just yet. Romeny was always a serious contender. Sounds like Bernie started off as a message candidate who had to adjust. Completely different dynamic.
MomSense
@Tom Levenson:
This morning MikeJ posted a link to a video made by Taiwanese animators about the Bernie campaign. Very funny.
eemom
@eemom:
Yeah, so after he said he was in it to win:
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: You know half the secret of success is Being There.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
And the other 90% is perspiration.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike J: They’re with his tax returns.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Baud: Kind of like he got in over his head and was pounced on by the grifters.
Major Major Major Major
@MomSense: oh, those guys are always good. Do share.
Keith G
@singfoom:
No such schemes.
Just the practical acknowledgment that accumulated delegate do bestow certain privileges upon the candidate who holds them. If Benie were to do what many would want which is to fold up the tents and walk away now, he would be a total footnote from this point on.
He wants to influence the direction of the democratic party. One of the ways to do that is to have a bit of say in how the convention unfolds. Again, no schemes about superdelegates just a realization of the way politics works.
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
FYWP doesn’t like my phone but here goes.
. Ha!
Baud
@Keith G:
That explains staying in through California. The comment was about staying in after California. He doesn’t lose his delegates if he concedes. Clinton didn’t in 2008 IIRC.
agorabum
Consultants making money is the natural state of affairs of any presidential campaign. I can’t fault him for that. There’s no way to ‘revolution’ your way out of that. Hopefully he starts to recognize that political races take money, Democrats who want to win have to raise that money, and that doesn’t automatically make them all whores.
His campaign was part of the same election shit show as the rest, he could just use the internet to raise money. Hey, good for him. But cut everyone else a bit of slack.
singfoom
@Keith G:
Ok, so a hand in the spelling out of the party platform for the general,that makes sense. But what does that mean for the campaign between the time that HRC has a winning delegate count and the convention? Does he concede before the convention and stop accepting donations or redirect them?
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: It’s what grifters do.
Still, it’s interesting how much they spent on ads compared to the ground game. I wonder if that was dictated by circumstances or a strategic decision.
D58826
@Keith G: If he spends the next two months with a positive spin on some of the difference between himself and Hillary, while also beating up on the GOP, then he will get a much warmer welcome at the convention then if he just continues to bad mouth Hillary and the party establishment.
Smiling Mortician
People who refer to themselves in first-person plural put me off me only slightly less than people who refer to themselves in the third person, by name.
Bernie does both every time I hear him talk. What’s up with that?
Mike J
@Baud:
If Clinton had asked for a postponement until after the last primary you would have heard about it, and practically nothing else, non-stop.
Baud
@Mike J:
If it’s an unusual thing to do, that’s true. I just don’t know.
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
I think that starts to get into some weird FEC stuff about campaign debt, though. I remember that part of the negotiations between Obama and Hillary were that he would pay off a chunk of her campaign debt in exchange for her public support. So having Bernie not *officially* stop campaigning may not mean much given those realities.
redshirt
@agorabum: Making money makes you a dirty corrupt politician.
WarMunchkin
@Baud: Irony of that being is that Sanders’ is actually the only campaign who paid its interns.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
I think Jane is responsible for a lot of the perception problems, and the fact that Sanders was pretty quick to throw her under the bus when the subject of taxes became an issue leads me to think that they’re hiding things to do with her. She’s got some sketchy things in her past like the Burlington College bank credit problems she’s been dismissive of.
@Mike J:
Yup. It would have broken the internet today.
Baud
@WarMunchkin:
That was not lost on me.
SciNY
And all this time I thought the grifters around Carson were the best in show….
Ryan
Time to think America. Senator Sanders, you’ve not been raising for down ballot races. Ummm, why?
SciNY
@Ryan: maybe Tad figured it would cut into his fees and told him to stay “on message”?
JGabriel
Is this really a surprise? Clinton had enormous name recognition coming in to the campaign last year, while Sanders name recognition was close to none, outside of lefties and political junkies. Sanders raising as much as he did was surprising, but it’s not surprising that he spent so much of it on getting his name recognition up.
Kay
I think there’s some confusion going on with assuming Sanders is talking about “the platform” when he’s talking about an agenda.
“The platform” is already aligned with Bernie Sanders (and Hillary Clinton and really any other Democrat) because it isn’t at all specific. I don’t think he’s talking about that document. They hope to show they got millions of votes so there’s support for a more liberal agenda, which would fit within the platform because nearly anything would.
WarMunchkin
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: I think that is an interesting train of thought though. Does our side have a “wingnut welfare” type of deal going on with left-wing insurgent challengers?
Baud
@Kay: How do you see that taking shape, if it’s not a change to the actual platform?
nutella
@Baud:
I expect it was dictated by Tad Devine’s eye on his revenue stream. OK, and maybe also by everybody on the campaign being surprised at how much money came rolling in.
Thoughtful David
I have a question: Can someone give me a list of, say, 5 or 6 of the vulnerable Republican senators up for reelection? I know Kelly Ayotte is one, and Traitor Grassley is another. Also, if you have it, who is their likely Democratic opponent.
I’ve never given any money to an out-of-state candidate before, but this refusal by the seditionists to hold a vote on the President’s nominee for Supreme Court has me so pissed off I’m going to start. I’m going to give the Democratic opponents some money and then write to the Republicans and tell them why I’m supporting their opponents.
I am so Not Thoughtful anymore. I am raging angry at these assholes.
DCF
@singfoom:
Once again…this is not about Bernie Sanders per se…this is about a progressive movement (not ‘moment’) that will recalibrate the focus and direction of the Democratic party….
Noam Chomsky: Young Bernie Sanders Supporters are a “Mobilized Force That Could Change the Country”
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/04/28/noam-chomsky-young-bernie-sanders-supporters-are-mobilized-force-could-change
JGabriel
singfoom:
If I remember correctly, Hillary stayed in the race until the convention in 2008, primarily to show a woman could do it. Maybe Sanders wants to do the same for social democrats in the party. In any event, the more delegates Sanders has, the influence he can have on the Democratic platform.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Yours is a campaign which will be studied by political scientists for decades to come.
@agorabum: I also don’t see the big deal with Senator Sanders spending loads of money on ad consulting firms. That’s the nature of the beast when you’re running for President in this country.
kindness
I’m gladdened that the surly BernieBros have died down but if you read comments over at a couple sites, they still live to piss off Democrats who aren’t voting for Bernie. Crooks & Liars they’re better. Rawstory they are still pretty bad. And the prize (all along) has gone to Huffington Post where I have to believe most of the asshole Bernie & Hillary people are Republican Trolls trying to screw Democrats over. Sadly all too many people are taking the bait.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I’m assuming he’s talking about stuff like convention speakers and future appointments (though again IIRC election laws mean you have to be very careful to avoid any appearance of “pay to play” when discussing appointments).
ETA: I’m guessing there’s probably also going to be some discussion of which down-ticket races it would be useful to have him support. You don’t want to burn his cred by making him support establishment Dems, but getting him to make speeches for people in purple districts might help them.
Baud
@JGabriel:
No, I think Hillary conceded in early June.
Pogonip
I’d like to interrupt because it’s important, sorry. My father has congestive heart failure and has developed a huge edematous blister on top of each foot. His feet look like a pair of bubble-eye goldfish. The visiting nurse said not to pop the blisters because of the risk of infection. Does anyone know of any home remedies to get the blisters to go down?
D58826
@Kay: I think he wants to push Hillary to argue some/all of his positions in the general. I saw one surrogate saying that part of the price for his support is a promise from Hillary that she will not pivot to the center in the general. Now the fact that most of the voters are in the center and there might not be enough votes on the left to win in November didn’t seem to be a concern.
ThresherK
@Patricia Kayden: Allow me to take liberties…
WarMunchkin
@Thoughtful David: Kelly Ayotte (NH), Pat Toomey (PA), Mark Kirk (IL), Ron Johnson (WI), John McCain (AZ), Chuck Grassley (IA), Rob Portman (OH), Marco Rubio (FL) (hah), Roy Blunt (MO).
Cacti
@Patricia Kayden:
I saw somewhere that he had spent about 50% more than Clinton had on the usual campaign related expenses.
Doesn’t seem like he’s getting the most bang for his buck if that’s the case.
nutella
@Thoughtful David:
Don’t forget Duckworth in Illinois. She’s up against Mark Kirk, the ‘bro with no ho‘ guy. I’d like to see him get the boot.
ETA: For many reasons, not just gross remarks.
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
This is not a moment, it’s a movement
Where all the hungriest brothers with something to prove went
(Sorry, it’s a reflex at this point)
eemom
@Smiling Mortician:
To be fair, most if not all presidential candidates do the “we” thing.
Bob Dole in 1996 did the third person thing, but I can’t think of any others.
gene108
@eemom:
Fetterman, a Senate candidate in PA’s Democratic primary, campaigned extensively for Bernie.
Bernie did not drop him any money and basically ignored his existence.
I’m not sure Bernie’s capable of pivoting to help other Democrats.
Baud
@ThresherK: Google is your friend.
Thoughtful David
@Tom Levenson:
Trump’s been handed his ass in several states on getting delegates by operatives working for Cruz who actually know the rules. Several other things about his campaign, such as squabbling staff are also pretty below-optimum.
So I really want some actual journalist to ask Mr. Trump: “So, you say that your plan for running things is to hire the best people and they’ll take care of it. When do you plan to start?
That hits him right at the core of his appeal to the low-information base. “Why, he’s a brillyunt bidnessman. He can run things like a bidness. It’ll be the best. It’ll be yooge.” And yet he can’t keep Manafort’s mouth shut…
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Stalking the Pope probably cost all in about a half mill, yet Sanders supporters hand wave that all away, while there are Sanders supporters on Reddit who have been literally imploring the campaign to get out in front of GOTV. It was a problem they anticipated in NY, but apparently there’s been only one office opened in CA, in LA. I guess big money compromises everyone, even pure pure St. Sanders of the Holy Independents.
Kay
@Baud:
I think it’s safe to say he’s fine with this! :
I think he would push priorities and try to get commitments on specific things. The idea would be he could show them there was support. So, just as an example, there’s kind of two (broad) approaches to campaign finance. One is “transparency” and the other is “regulation”. Sanders would lean toward regulation rather than relying on “getting unaccountable money out of politics” which is the less regulatory approach.
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
Oh no! I know we have a few RNs who comment, but they usually don’t show up until later tonight. There are also a couple of doctors. I definitely would not do anything against nurse’s orders.
Is there an advice line that the insurance company or Medicare has that you can call?
Patricia Kayden
@Thoughtful David: Here is a list of the six most vulnerable Republican Senators. Don’t know who their opponents are though.
http://cookpolitical.com/senate/charts/race-ratings
Mike J
@D58826:
Pro gun and anti immigration?
The price of his support is going to be Hillary calling some people up and asking them to bail out his campaign that’s going to owe millions of dollars. Hillary will say nice things about him in public, but if he thinks he’s getting any actual influence he’s high. More people voted for Clinton. Why would she adopt the platform of a loser?
D58826
@DCF: I’m not really sure Chomsky is living on the same planet as the rest of us.
Single payer was not mainstream in the 1950’s. Heck Ike had to disguise the interstate highway system as the national defense highway act in order to get it past and road building is about as mainstream as you can get.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@efgoldman:
LOL. Amen old dude, amen. Wisdom doesn’t count for shit when you’re a bro. Nothing to learn from Obama either. I get that the bros diss Obama since it was **so long ago**, but what’s Sanders’ excuse for dismissing the delegate rich South?
Patricia Kayden
@JGabriel: Secretary Clinton conceded to then Senator Obama on June 7, 2008.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5020581
BillinGlendaleCA
@JGabriel:
I’d think the large rallies and the associated free media that accompanied them would do a lot to help with name recognition.
Baud
@Kay:
And they say there’s no difference between the parties.
Kay
@D58826:
Maybe, but I think that’s too narrow. He’s talking about the Democratic Party. So he did two things, right? He attracted lots of young people and he raised a lot of money relying upon labor unions and small donors. He would seek to show Democrats they could do that too by running on a more liberal agenda. So if you were a more liberal congressional candidate, for example, and the Democratic Party chose not to support your run, you could go the Bernie route.
eemom
@gene108:
Not sure why, but I keep feeling the need to give Bernie the benefit of the doubt. I.e., that he’s gonna come through for us in the end, and not be another fucking Nader.
MomSense
@Pogonip:
I think this warrants a call to the covering physician. Sending you my very best.
Cacti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
NY really was the moment where the wheels seemed to fall off from the Sanders campaign.
-Bernie bombs interview with NYDN editorial staff
-Surrogate Rosario Dawson disses President Obama (90 percent approval rating with Dems)
-Bernie calls Hillary unqualified
-Surrogate Paul Song, MD calls Hillary a whore
-Bernie invites himself to Rome to stalk the Pope
It was a perfect storm of gaffes, eff-ups and bad optics.
Mike J
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
He’s now claiming he loves the 50 state strategy.
I’m still waiting to hear from Tim Robbins which other states are “only” as important as Guam. I’m guessing NY and PA.
Baud
@Pogonip:
I know of no remedies but wishing you the best.
D58826
@Mike J: I don’t think she should adopt the platform of a loser but a lot of young people voted for him. For the future of the party and progressive ideas, if not for the general, she would be wise to reach out to them and try to keep them involved. No more the young’ns only show up every 4 years. The entire college tuition issue might be a good place to start. It certainly impacts millions of young voters with college debt or late teens hoping to go to college. I read one article by Jonathan Alter where he thinks she should adopt major pieces of Bernie’s plan. It is less complicated and easier to explain on the stump. And it is not a particularly ‘leftist’ idea so she can adopt it and still pivot to the center.
eemom
@Patricia Kayden:
And did so most graciously, whole-heartedly urging her supporters to do “for Barack” everything they did for her. I couldn’t stand Hillary in ’08 up to that point, but with that speech she totally won me over.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@D58826: I will quote Erik Loomis of LGM
Link to article here.
NR
Boy, you guys just cannot stop circlejerking about how awful Bernie Sanders is, can you? It’s sad.
Hillary won, now would be a good time to move on and focus on the Republicans, don’t you think?
Origuy
@Patricia Kayden:
A lot of that had to do with the Michigan and Florida delegates. Remember it wasn’t clear if they would be seated because the primaries were too early.
Cacti
@Mike J:
Not me.
He and Susan Sarandon can go sniff each other’s butts.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
We need a thread on the NFL draft at 8 PM
rumors are the Los Angeles Rams are going to draft Baud! with the first pick.
Should be exciting night.
redshirt
@Origuy: That was nerve wracking at the time.
NR
@Origuy: At least we were spared that mess this time around, thank god.
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Could happen. Someone drafted Johnny Manziel.
JPL
@NR: I tend to agree with your statement, except I’m curious why he didn’t release more tax returns. I’d like to know what non-profits he contributed to.
singfoom
@NR:
I don’t think this thread is a circlejerk of bashing Bernie. True, some people are going to bash Bernie, but honestly, said people will take that opportunity regardless of the thread topic.
It’s not bashing to look at the time period between now and the D convention and consider what the moves might be for his campaign.
JPL
@Baud: lol
D58826
@Kay: Maybe. I just not sure getting to far out in front of the majority of voters is a winning strategy. The GOP has been successful in moving to the right but the wheels might be coming off of that train this year. Plus I’m not sure there are large voting blocs on the left life there are on the right, the evangelicals for example. It also took the GOP a few years to build those voting blocks. They didn’t go from Jerry Ford to Ted Cruz in one jump.
redshirt
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: What a waste of a pick. Baud’s never even taken a snap from under center.
NR
@singfoom: I was referring to comments like this one.
singfoom
@Kay:
So what does that mean for the convention? Just a verbal on the floor acknowledgement of Bernie and his supporters by HRC and the party a full throated, good game, come on over, let’s win the general?
Kay
@D58826:
Not to beat a dead horse but “the platform” is like “good jobs” and “we love kindergarten teachers”. Bernie is on board with the platform :)
She should simplify her college plan. She’s offering free community college and so is the President. Biden gave a speech on it last week. She should say “free”:
D58826
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: thanks. If I remember my history the last major socialist figure in the US was Eugene Debbs in the 1920’s. You had the communist party in the 1950’s/60’s but most of its members were FBI informers. In my life time there have been a lot of right wing demagogue but I don’t remember any on the left who amount to anything. And I not calling Bernie a demagogue
singfoom
@NR: Like I said, some people are always going to bash Bernie. Don’t ascribe their views to the commentariat as a whole.
DCF
@D58826:
Attack the messenger (Chomsky), be my guest…clearly, he is out of your orbit….
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud:
We had a lot of fun that night (link)
As for Manziel, UR far more interesting then that bozo.
I hate being right all the time, but damn it I am:
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Baud:
I see you more as a Tebow type.
aimai
@Emma: There was an excellent diary about this issue at Kos a couple of weeks ago. It was called “Nuts and Bolts” and was part of some series about how to run for office. The very first thing, apparently, is learning how to tell people you aren’t going to use them as consultants or aides, and learning how to gracefully fire people without hurting their feelings or making them feel rejected. Its not just a question of class, or lack of class. Its basic good manners to thank your workers and supporters all the time, but especially when you are having to dissapoint them.
Pogonip
Mnenosyne, Momsense, Baud: Thanks for suggestions! we already called the nurse line, they said the same thing the visiting nurse said: walk a lot and elevate his feet. Maybe the only cure is handstands. However, one of them does seem to be shrinking, and fortunately they don’t hurt. They LOOK really painful but he says they aren’t, he could draw faces on them with a felt pen if he could reach his feet.
Shouldn’t the Baud administration have a plan to deal with this? If you lose the bubble-eye-foot vote, it’ll be hard to come back.
SFAW
@Baud:
Well, except for no one has ever referred to you as “Baudy Football.”
Kay
@D58826:
I just wouldn’t worry about it so much. It’s the Democratic Convention and the Democratic Party. Liberals are part of the Democratic Party. They have more or less sway and influence depending on their perceived strength in any given cycle. Sanders will point to his voters and say “this is a large group of voters” and see how far he gets with that. It’s not a coup or a list of demands, it’s leverage.
FlipYrWhig
Does anyone remember its being said in 2008 that Obama should incorporate significant parts of Clinton’s agenda and let her supporters know how valued and important they are? I don’t remember that. What I remember is a lot of concern that her supporters would be petulant if the candidate herself didn’t rein them in. And a lot of pleasant surprise when she did just that.
Am I off base, or is this contention that the winner needs to be super nice to the loser and bow in his direction and not make any big sudden movements new for 2016 and Hillary Clinton? If so, is it special positive treatment for Bernie or special critical treatment for Hillary?
aimai
@singfoom: He is not going to redirect his money because there is no money left and probably tons of hidden debts. The idea that Bernie is some kind of santa for democratic spending is a joke. He will be begging the Clinton campaign to pay off his debts just like she had to beg Obama and his supporters to help pay off hers.
D58826
@DCF: Ok. how about he doesn’t know what he is tal;king about?
SFAW
@D58826:
His term isn’t even over, and you’ve already forgotten the current Socialist in Chief, i.e., Barack Ilyich Obama? You kids …
Mike J
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
I think the post TD goat sacrifices are off-putting
gene108
@eemom:
I don’t see Bernie going Nader, I just do not see him as a team player.
He’s done better than anyone’s expected, but I do not see him trying to work his supporters into becoming active with state and local levels of the Democratic Party, to carry on his agenda.
NotMax
FYI.
Coincidence? I think not. Choosing a Friday for the release piques interest on what will be in there.
aimai
@DCF: “May” does a shitload of work in that paragraph.
gwangung
@singfoom: He’s either thin skinned or a troll. Generally, folks around here are pretty good at reading comprehension
FlipYrWhig
@singfoom: NR popped in at the bottom of every thread for weeks with the same comment about Hillary’s weakness and unpopularity. This is like the Monty Python Holy Grail thing about not bickering about who killed who.
D58826
@Kay: True. What ever happens I hope the party poohbahs are smart enough to look at the Bernie campaign as ask ‘how did we miss this pool of voters’. I don’t want to use the word autopsy sounds to GOPish. Maybe after action report. Win lose or tie he struck a nerve and developed an approach that the democrats would be crazy not to incorporate in the party’s future activities.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
I was told to eat prunes.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
PROGRAMING NOTE:
This Saturday at 10 PM Eastern, President Obama and Larry Wilmore host Def Comedy Jam at The WH Correspondence Dinner.
Televised on CSPAN, CNN, MSNBC and online on CSPAN.org
Can wait until they skewer Trump.
DCF
@Mnemosyne:
There are new therapies for that now…the only prerequisites are an open mind and heart….
How Do We Transform America?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjR8RLNLpsY
les
@DCF: When are you going to stop parading stuff that does not comport with reality? If Bernie’s plans were so mainstream and Republican, why weren’t they passed in Eisenhower’s time? You and Chomsky are in la-la land. The GI Bill made college possible (not always free) for veterans, and only existed because they had to enlist half the country. Employer paid health insurance was invented in WWII because wages were fixed; nobody was thinking about proposing or endorsing single payer health insurance. You’re acting like a loon.
WarMunchkin
@Kay: Does the deliberate “unaccountable” (HRC’s usage) there sound a bit like nails on a chalkboard to you? I feel like lots of people forgot that campaign finance reform was thought to be the-best-we-could-get type of compromise before CU.
I’m not sure, by the way, that liberal voters count as leverage. Whoever else said up there is right – Clinton won, Sanders lost. That’s it, leverage implies that there’s something to take away; Sanders doesn’t have that, and neither do liberals because at the end of the day the leverage goes the other way: “if you don’t vote for us, Trump is going to win”.
Atrios is right though, we’re still going to be talking about Bernie Bros all the way to November and beyond. Head, desk.
redshirt
@NotMax: That was such a horrible incident. I hope the truth comes out.
Ella in New Mexico
@kindness:
Oh, it’s here, too. It has become pretty easy to spot the trolls, particularly now.
Given the state of the race, most of us are “calming down” and chilling out with the hot back-and-forth arguments, hereas, your trolls are still going at it like it’s a fucking death match: posting all day, every day, on every thread, really deeply dark– and at this point pretty much unnecessary–opposition research-type attacks against their supposed candidates opponent. If it’s all over but the crying, pray tell, why so much continued effort to rub the loser in the dirt? Maybe so his reporters will blame Hilary supporters for it? And not vote at all in November?
If anyone thinks the Kochs are for Hilary Clinton they’re nuts. Our master Trolls the Kochs want the Sanders supporters to stay home this fall. What better way than to feed into their fears that she is just another inside the Beltway, political sell out? If you want to keep people home in the fall, make them hate the other side, or make them feel like THEY are unimportant and outright detested by the only remaining candidate.
Like I said the other day, beware your wolf in sheep’s clothing, cuz it’s a Republican. Not just in the comments sections of political sites, but right out there in front of your face. Do your own thinking.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
Obama’s campaign held conference calls for his delegates and Clinton delegates prior to the election where we were instructed to be respectful and listen and “bring them in”.
Which we did. I was on one with a woman who ran some kind of Latino org in Ohio. I don’t know if you recall this but the word at the time was Clinton was stronger with Latinos. There was outreach.
dave
Re:the foot blister.absolutely-call the covering MD.As far as home treatment,protect it with a warm high concentration saline pad. The blood serum inside can be a place for bacteria to grow if you pierce it and the high concentration saline will tend to have water inside the blister cross the intact skin keeping the size down
Stella
@Pogonip: Feet above his heart several times per day and elevated as much as he can stand when he isn’t moving around. Does he weigh himself daily? If his weight is up, he should call his doc because he may need some extra diuretic.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
When I was at a very expensive private college in the early 1990s, it was not unusual for my friends to take community college classes in the summer to knock out some of their GEs at a lower cost.
I would also mention that community colleges are a great place for nontraditional (aka older) students to dip their toe in and get some retraining, but I know you have a knee-jerk reaction to the “T” word at this point.
;-)
Thoughtful David
@WarMunchkin:
@nutella:
@Patricia Kayden:
Thanks.
According to the Cook Report, there are six that are toss-ups. Here are the top five with their Democratic opponents:
Kirk (IL) (Opponent: Tammy Duckworth)
Ayotte (NH) (Opponent: Maggie Hassan)
Portman (OH) (Opponent: Ted Strickland)
Toomey (PA) (Opponent: Kate McGinty)
Johnson (WI) (Opponent: Russ Feingold)
FL is also apparently a toss-up, but it looks like they don’t yet have candidates set.
aimai
@Kay: I hate this fucking “should” that Bernie’s supporters are peddling–and still peddling. No, she should not make any of Bernie’s promises for stuff she then can’t negotiate and keep. Bernie had the luxury of promising whatever the fuck he dreamed of that sounded good. Hillary is being elected by voters who have one foot in reality and would like not to be overpromised and lied to when circumstances and an ugly battle with Republicans is going to define the next term or two.
Bernie’s dkos supporters want something huge and symbolic like the head of Debbie Wasserman Schultz and a statement (which they will not believe because Bernie encouraged them to believe that Hillary was a stone cold liar and corporate shill) that Hillary opposes and will end Citizens United. Some of them also want her to renounce all money that doesn’t come from small dollar donors to run the general election.
The idea that Bernie’s more passionate supporters–the ones Bernie and his fans keep cautioning us not to piss off, will be satisified with a simple expansion of the platform is ridiculous. The dead enders will not be satisifed with Hillary doing or saying anything because they have been taught to believer she’s the next thing to a Republican. They hate Obama and they see her willingness to campaign on his agenda as basically criminal. And Bernie has, so far, done nothing to ratchet that back. Nothing.
D58826
@SFAW: ah yes but I thought he was the founder of the Muslim Kenyan Communist Hitler party. Not just your average run of the mill nondescript socialist.
ON a lighter note about Obama. I’m sure every one remembers the outrageous fist-bump episode of 2008. Such depravity and evil. I saw a photo yesterday of Ted and Carly (hmm sounds like a TV sitcom tile) doing the fist bump. The world survived and Faux news well just ignored it. .
NR
@FlipYrWhig: The difference is, Hillary’s unpopularity is actually relevant for the general election. Bernie Sanders’ faults, whether real or imagined, are not.
rikyrah
@Thoughtful David:
Kirk of Illinois
Working hard to get rid of that mofo
NotMax
@D58826
Norman Thomas wasn’t chopped liver.
Also too, Dick Gregory ran for prez on a mostly pro-socialist agenda in 1968.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@D58826:
What pool of voters? Turnout was down 30% this year, even among youth. I think people get confused by crowd sizes. McGovern had large crowds and a lot of college supporters and lost 49 states.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
says whiny troll who’s been whining about Obama for eight years
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
It’s a Hamilton thing. You wouldn’t understand.
aimai
@Kay: Well, you can bet Hillary and her supporters remember this and will emulate it. Her campaign so far has been a textbook based on Obama’s best practices. But did Obama feel he had to put her ideas in the platform? Did he permit a floor fight over the agenda? No. And nor should she.
Kay
@WarMunchkin:
Citizens is really complicated. There are people who think (Sherrod Brown) that we will need a constitutional amendment for real regulation unless it’s actually overturned. I agree with you- “unaccountable” is deliberately cautious. I noticed it immediately, because there ARE these two camps- “transparency” is obviously a lighter lift than “regulation”.
Shell
Please, Im not in anyway making fun of your situation, its just when you say bubble-eye, I keep thinking of the three-eyed fish on The Simpsons.
Mnemosyne
@WarMunchkin:
Hey, some people here still talk about PUMAs, so continuing use of “Berniebros” is probably inevitable.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@NR: Says the guy who supports the guy that wants to raise everyone’s taxes thousands of dollars. That’s a great platform to run on.
D58826
@NotMax: Forgot about Norman. But the point I think still holds, the number of socialists at the national level would fit into one of the phone booths (google it kiddies) at the Smithsonian.
les
@D58826: I think that’s right. The repub strategy won’t work for Dems, we’re not as good at lying and not as easily defined. One problem with Bernie and many of his supporters, it seems to me, is a perennial problem on the left: they can’t admit that socialists/progressives/leftists/liberals, whichever they’re claiming to be now, are not now and never have been a majority, or even significant chunk, of the Democratic party. If Bernie’s multitudes actually show up to work, maybe that can change. But they’ll never just be the party, they’ll have to compromise. And we see how they like that.
Barry
@redshirt: “Today was remarkable in that the Bernie v. Hillary supporters battles were completely gone. I hope they don’t come back.”
If I was her I’d instruct my field offices to interview (soon-to-be-) former Bernie staffers.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: “Be respectful and listen” is an easy enough standard to meet. (Not that I’ve always met it. Ahem.) But there’s a huge difference between “be respectful and listen” and this other thing where Team Bernie is supposed to get some sort of grand gesture at the level of policy, agenda, platform, whatever, because his supporters are miffed and need reassurances. I don’t remember that’s ever having been said before. I feel like what I remember is the opposite, I.e., a lot of “get over it, you crazy PUMA bitches.” And I’m not quite sure why “get over it and get your head in the game” has been the riposte every other time, but this time it’s too mean or something. Maybe it IS mean, but no one was terribly concerned about it last time around, or the time before that, or the time before that. I think it’s a new concern.
les
@DCF:
Finally, an accurate statement from DCF. Chomsky’s been out of any rational orbit for quite a while.
Svensker
@Pogonip:
The problem is that the blisters are filled with fluid and until the fluid goes away, the blisters are going to be pop-eyed. If you can’t deflate them with a sterile needle, I don’t know what you can do. No advice but lots of hugs.
Kay
@aimai:
It was nice. It was probably necessary too. I went to a pre-convention meeting before the outreach effort and it was cold. The delegates were literally sitting on 2 sides of the room, Clinton left and Obama right.
Emma
@aimai: Exactly. I’ve had to do some firing in my days and I have never delegated it, even in instances where I could have. The boss does the hard as well as the easy.
singfoom
@les:
I’ll give you the socialists, fine. But liberals not a significant chunk of the Democratic party? C’mon, that’s ridiculous. It’s one thing to call out purity pony trolls as being a minority, but this doesn’t pass the smell test.
D58826
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I know but Bernie still managed to collect a couple of million votes, so there is someone out there, not just crowd size. Even if it only adds 10% to the democratic coalition better on our side than on the GOP side or just sitting out the process waiting for the next messiah. . As for McGovern I’ve been using him as an example for a long time that, as a voting block, there are not enough liberal/progressives to win an election.
NR
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
This is false. And Sanders’ tax plan is irrelevant in any case since he is not going to be the Democratic nominee.
It’s really sad that you guys can’t let this go.
redshirt
@Kay: Sounds like a Junior High dance.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@NR: You just said Hillary has negatives and Bernie doesn’t, implying he’s a better candidate in the general. Are you actually saying Bernie wouldn’t raise taxes? You guys are funny.
FlipYrWhig
@les:
THIS. I don’t know why this is so hard for so many people to comprehend. Look, I realize that part of the excitement around Bernie Sanders was exactly the way that his crowds made being left-of-center seem cool and visible. It was a delicious iconography: LOOK HOW MANY OF US ARE OUT HERE! And sometimes, in a political discussion that’s preoccupied with swing states and swing demographics, it’s useful to be reminded that there are more kinds of people than suburban white moderates. But, you know, there still are a hell of a lot of different kinds of people than educated liberals in the party–AND, what’s more, a substantial share of the educated liberals still like the other candidate a lot, and maybe even better. This is why it isn’t REALLY a liberal vs. moderate clash, and why some of us on the Clinton side get hella pissed off when it’s presumed to be that.
Mnemosyne
@WarMunchkin:
Also, too, “unaccountable” is important, especially if we’re stuck with Citizens United for the foreseeable future. I know there were several post-Prop 8 kerfuffles here in California when it was discovered that some proprietors of ostensibly gay-friendly businesses had donated towards getting the proposition passed.
If money really does count as speech, I think we as citizens have an absolute right to know exactly whose money is speaking.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@D58826: but Sanders isn’t a socialist. I don’t think he knows what the word means.
Interviews with NYDN, Vox, CBS shows he knows very little policy.
WarMunchkin
@singfoom: No, I agree with him. I think that’s what I’ve learned this time around, partially because of the people on this blog and elsewhere. I’ve seen a bunch of comments over the last couple of months to the effect of “we don’t want tax-and-spend liberals in government” or “Sanders is basically just handing out free stuff from tax money”, which initially shell-shocked me because that, to me, is a Republican talking point. But to some extent, Reagan won those debates decisively. The Democratic Party is the party of civil rights, equal opportunity in the marketplace and economic empowerment through equal individual initiative; the hardcore liberals among us are just along for the ride. We’ll take what we can. HRC’s family leave initiative is something that I am super excited about.
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
It depends on your definition of “liberal.” I’ve been told many times here that I’m not a True Liberal because I disagree with someone, especially on economics. I think that’s what’s being referred to.
smith
@D58826:
There are not enough people who self-identify with those labels to win an election, but I think the major lesson of Sanders’ candidacy is that there is room to move left on policy and get the country to accept those policies as plausible and doable. This has been happening for a while on the right, so that ideas that at one time were considered loony fringe are now official Republican policies.
I don’t think Clinton has any obligation to make a grand gesture or to woo Bernie’s supporters, but it’s only good politics to carefully consider what excited them, and to let them know they are welcome in the party. Whether they accept the invitation is up to them.
Roger Moore
@D58826:
I hate the whole formulation of “such and such was a conservative position in the past, so people who hold it today are still conservative”. The world changes, and what constitutes a liberal or conservative position changes with it. It’s a claim intended to show that you’re so much purer than everyone else, and the real world be damned.
Pogonip
@Stella: Yes, we think it’s because when he got home he didn’t keep his feet up enough. He’s been scrupulous about it today and blister #1 is definitely shrinking. Thanks!
Kay
@les:
The story of the primary, though, was Democrats have gotten more liberal. That happened again and again in exit polls:
I don’t know what it means (or if it means anything) but it is what Democratic voters said when they were asked. In a lot of the races the group that self-identified as “liberal” was up 20% since 2008.
Mnemosyne
@WarMunchkin:
And I’ve been told several times here by Bernie supporters that I’m not a True Liberal if I’m not 100 percent on board with Bernie’s programs and that no True Liberal would ever support a former Goldwater Girl, so I’m not allowed to call myself a liberal anymore.
singfoom
@WarMunchkin: @Mnemosyne: I feel like it’s a True Scotsman discussion, but fine. I’m a liberal and I’m part of the Democratic party. Is it perfect? Nope, but neither am I.
I guess it’s just splitting hairs at this point. I
D58826
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: And Hillary has negatives because she has been on the national stage for 25 years with the GOP slime machine going full blast. Bernie had been living in the Vemont cocoon all that time. Even in Washington he was a back bencher who rarely made it to TV talk shows before his campaign started. The GOP slime machine would do a number on Bernie just like it tried to do with Obama and succeed in doing to Kerry. There was a link to an article in Slate on this very topic in yesterdays marathon thread. IF Bernie was the nominee his tax plan or some wildly distorted version of it would be track 2 on the GOP hit parade. Track 2 would be he is a tax and spend SOCIALIST.
Obviously since he won’t be the nominee these attack ads will never be written but if you want to talk about the relative strength of the two candidates in November, as a hypothetical, then you have to factor in the attack ads. This isn’t picking on Bernie or being unfair to his ideas, its just a statement of fact. IF Bernie forgot to let the cat in one night when he was five, the GOP will turn that into Bernie the mass murderer of innocent animals. Obviously we won’t know if it will stick since it isn’t going to happen.
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne: I’m non-traditional. I took 2 classes at a community college. The classes were OK but the registration was confusing. I have never felt so out of place in my life. We peasants should be issued an English/College bilingual dictionary when we sign up.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@D58826: Exactly.
Cathie from Canada
@Pogonip: perhaps a doctor could drain these safely.
Your dad can lie down with a pillow under his knees and feet so his feet are higher than his heart. But this is hard to do for hours. Also make sure he is not dehydrated so his lymphatic system won’t retain extra fluid. I’m not a medical person but I have problems with fluid retention too.
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
It’s more that each side is trying to claim the word while denying it to the other side. Who knows — after 50-ish years of calumny, maybe it’s a good sign that everyone wants to be known as a liberal.
Pogonip
@Shell: Hee hee hee.
We don’t mind seeing tge funny side of it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
NR is a Bernfeeler so you have to give credit where credit is due. Any Bernfeeler coming into enemy territory at this late date willing to fight a rear guard action by defending their hero’s massive miscalculations while shit talking the winner’s supporters, deserves major props.
D58826
@smith: No [email protected]<a href="#comment- from me on that.
@Roger Moore: Yes we want to avoid falling into the purity pony/Dino trap. I’m all for solving a problem, if some one has a better way than my idea then lets go for it. To use a bit of a silly example, but if we get to the point that every person in the country gets three good meals a day, in good times and bad, I don’t care if its done with food stamps or the Salvation army does it. Just solve the problem.
NR
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Bernie Sanders will not be running in the general election, therefore his perceived faults are irrelevant since the primary is essentially over. Staying fixated on him like you apparently are accomplishes nothing.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Kay: that’s because the Kenyan sochulizt turned the country left.
(Graph) (photo)
Pogonip
@Svensker: Thank you! He appreciates it.
Mike J
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Hillary has more endorsements from Scandinavian MPs than Sanders does.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Heh. If only NR could execute a pincer movement, Siam would feel the Bern.
Pogonip
@Cathie from Canada: Thanks! He is dutifully elevated even as we speak.
Amaranthine RBG
Another day, another snarky post about Sanders.
And so it goes …
WarMunchkin
@Mnemosyne: Well, True Liberal is something else. There are lots of people who are “fiscal conservative”, “socially liberal” out there, but I haven’t really seen too many people who are fiscal liberals who are socially conservative. (Of course, the claims by some people here are that those are actually the BernieBros, but I don’t think that’s on the mark).
Anyway, that subset of people are the folks who want the government to cut taxes, limit spending, but be progressive on marriage equality and not shoot black kids and stop insulting Muslims and such. That’s liberal! It just means you belong to a different stakeholder group than the Johnson Democrats, who still think that’s something the Democratic Party supports (people like me).
Hey, it could be worse. The Democratic Party has stakeholders, the Republican Party has shareholders.
Gex
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: And they’re still arguing that they want to have influence on the platform, but HOW DARE YOU bring up his policies as a negative since he won’t be the candidate!
D58826
@Kay: And the democrats would be bloody incompetent if they didn’t figure a way to get the new members of that group folded into the party. I think most of us agree on that its just the how do you do that, without driving the not so liberal over to the GOP, that is still being argued
Amaranthine RBG
@NR: I guess he’ll hath no fury like a moderated democrat scorned. Or something.
D58826
@WarMunchkin: The GOP has a stake thru the heart
Pogonip
Blister #1 is definitely shrinking. There’s a doctor coming Tuesday. (If you are 89 and “housebound,” you can still get a house call.
Having been through two wars, Dad probably knows more about feet than most GP’s, and we could probably drain the blisters safely, but since they don’t hurt and he has nowhere to go, we’ll be extra-cautious and wait for the medicine man to weigh in.
Misterpuff
Do I misunderstand something? You raise money to spend it. Bernie did his best, but counter to my unicorn’s whispers, the electorate didn’t want a left ward lurch, let alone a revolution. Bernie offered it up and it was rebuffed. Fine, he spent the money, but he put the word out there. And as much as he can get on my nerves regarding how he is interacting with Hillary, he was, is and will be inspiring, and he will bring a new generation into political thought, if not action.
Pogonip
Well, I don’t care about the Hillary/Bernie feud. I remain loyal to Baud.
Kay
@D58826:
I don’t know if they’re “new members” or if more Democrats (now) self-identify as liberal, but it seems clear there were more liberal voters than in 2008.
I’m more liberal than I was in 2008. I will never forget the aftermath of the financial crash. We had 16% unemployment. I have never seen it so bad. There were whole streets dotted with auction signs- 5,6,7 pages in the back of the local paper with foreclosure notices- row after row. People were strung tight as wires- crying in our office or losing their tempers. Just terrible. Without food stamps there would have literally been breadlines.
Miss Bianca
@FlipYrWhig: Ladies are always supposed to be conciliatory and gracious, particularly if they’re running for President.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Pogonip: The talk on the street is that Baud! took all the campaign money and spirited off to Bora Bora.
BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: Hell, the Rethugs won big in 2010 and canned the chair of the RNC. Then again, he had the problem of being blah*.
*This is perceived as being a problem in Republicanland.
redshirt
@Kay: It seems I get more liberal every year too.
Peale
@efgoldman: yep. The tarring and feathering of Debbie Wasserman Schultz will bring us all together. I will bring my rail. I’ll let the young ones do the running.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne:
I guess that I am luckier than many here. The Sanders supporters whom I live and work around have been nothing but pleasant and quite politically rational. We have had earnest and occasionally deep disagreements, but no foot stomping, name calling, or other acrimony.
And I do not count online commentary since there is no way to figure out any context about the persona on the other side of the screen.
BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: And this is the thanks I get for agreeing with you, thanks bud.
Mike J
@Keith G: Bernie was the one who said you can’t be a progressive and a moderate. It came from the top down.
Elie
@Ryan:
He is NOT a Democrat! Downballot races are for the Democrats…
Kay
@redshirt:
You know how you thought there were all these people evaluating credit and analyzing mortgages and such? Well, they weren’t. As it turns out.
I still see the inflated appraisals from that period floating around “yeah,right, THAT was worth 90K”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@FlipYrWhig:
Sexism is the new racism.
Elie
During the time money was sloshing around in the Bernie campaign, there was the FEC concern that Bernie had a lot of untracked “foreign” investors…. Hmmmmm – What a great way to r***uck the Democrats! Launder those contributions to be from foreign sources. Could be a cover for any Republican or the Kochs or whatever. Add to that the great turnout he had in open primaries from independents and Republicans and you have a very interesting reality around the money flow and the results of his unexpected success as a candidate vs a statement maker. Not saying that was what happened, but it is at least what I have thought about…
Keith G
@singfoom: @Baud: I am willing to give BS time to emotionally unwind. I will bother over what he does after California….after California. That’s 39 days. Remember Jesus needed 40 days to wrestle with his demons.
I think we will see and outcome that many or most here (all but the Unsullied) will find satisfactory.
Keith G
@Mike J: Candidates say stuff that all the time that may not survive a close parsing – Hillary is be among the worst on our side**.
**Edit = meant to say, given that HRC is smart and rational, it is surprising the silly stuff that she says.
goblue72
@eemom: You really are a pus filled carbuncle aren’t you? I mean, not much different than AL, but still.
jl
@FlipYrWhig: Yes, you are off base. HRC doesn’t need to be nice to O’Malley. If Sanders had done about as well as O’Malley, HRC would not have to be nice to Sanders.
Sanders has enough money and enough delegates to try to change things his way for the election, and he says it is because he thinks it is the best way to bring in a big Democratic win in November. You may agree or disagree with that contention, that that is what he says.
During his campaign he said waging a political revolution is just as important at his nomination. So far, he is acting like he means that. HRC supporters think the best thing for the election is that he fold this tent quietly and starting working with the DNC to dole out his money. Sanders says he disagrees. That is how politics rolls. If HRC thinks she can ignore Sanders and get his supporters’ votes for the general, she is free to try that.
I would expect some negotiations and posturing on both sides between now and the end of the Democratic convention, some of which may not be overly polite and politic. I hope they reach an agreement that will keep Sanders supporters energized for the November election.
Elie
@Keith G:
I love your reasoned/rational approach, but if the rumor is right that he will have a campaign debt to retire, me thinks he may need to show a little more restraint and a more conciliatory tone…. If he wants Hillary and the Dems to pay all those consultants that trashed her and pay for the charter to the Vatican with the first rate menu, then he needs to play real nice…
..And Jane as recent as yesterday was throwing it down that they would release their returns when Hillary released her speech transcripts.. Hopefully, we have seen an end to that kind of crap.
goblue72
@Misterpuff: Bernie was supposed to raise lots of money, spend none of it, win every state, and do so while saying nothing. Because any attack of Her Royal Highness is an affront to the everyone who still thinks Carly Simon is relevant.
As for Sanders supporters, a group of ex-staffers and volunteers are forming a PAC to raise money for 2018 Congressional candidates with an aim to be the Tea Party of the Left – https://brandnewcongress.org No telling if it goes anywhere, but their push to nationalize the 2018 election is nice to see – its straight out of the playbook for how Gingrich launched GOP control of Congress.
Elie
— Well he doesn’t HAVE to I guess. He can do fundraising covered dish “rallies” around the northeast and the western caucus states to raise funds. But I suspect under all that Aw Shucks is a guy who really does not want to do that little stuff — he is way too IMPORTANT for that. I apologize for the sarcasm, but I found the person he revealed during this process to be pretty creepy — even held against the nefarious Wall Street Queen of Hearts… and believe me, I did NOT start out a HIllary supporter… Bernie lost me fair and square…
Elie
@goblue72:
No goblue — of course he had to spend it — even all of it. He raised a lot but he also spent more than he got back in results. Its the consultants and gratuitous spending such as the trip to Rome (though that is minor in the scheme of things). He is not a good manager (I don’t mean just him personally, but he doesn’t have people who know how to do this apparently). It IS hard stuff. How about a little humility for obviously things that were not as might be best?
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72: Ya know, being conciliatory is a two way street, bud. Ya might just want to lower the vitriol, just a tad.
FlyingToaster
@<@WarMunchkin: a href=”#comment-5779325″>Thoughtful David:
Keith G
@FlipYrWhig:
Reaching out to bring more voters into the tent and to patch over rifts is what nominees do. This is not a new phenomenon. In. The. Least.
Meanwhile, your characterization: “the winner needs to be super nice to the loser and bow in his direction and not make any big sudden movements” might be a bit faulty.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Elie:
This was written in 2008.
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: And it was true in that year.
Keith G
@Elie: He’s got debts…She want’s to be president with the largest vote possible.
They both have needs.
Hers are actually more important/acute.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@goblue72: A pus filled carbuncle will eventually go away, being an asshole is forever.
Davebo
@goblue72: Classy stuff. Does Charles pay a bonus for this sort of thing or are you just going the extra mile?
Keith G
@Elie: Here is a funny (I think) dark thought.
One of the things I like about Hillary is that she can be tough, very tough.
I like the image of her meeting with Bernie wherein she goes North Korean on him and has her staff use a saw to lower Bernie’s chair.
And just to cover my bases….No, I do not endorse such a behavior.
Robert Sneddon
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s one thing that’s impressed me about SoS Clinton this time around. She LEARNED. There’s a lot of politicians out there that have fossilised and couldn’t rework their thinking even after a big loss like 2008. I see that in Senator Sanders campaign this year where he’s run a Vermont Senate-style campaign across the US and apparently been surprised that it hasn’t brought him victory.
WarMunchkin
@Robert Sneddon: ? This is a strange comment in my eyes. Clinton had eight years to learn, with a family member who has run two successful presidential campaigns; this is Sanders’ first campaign outside of Vermont. And the standard is that Sanders had to have learned exactly what Clinton did in, what, four months of being a candidate that people didn’t think was just a protest vote? Cole did the same thing “she learns and Sanders doesn’t” a few weeks ago; that just strikes me as off-base given the time scale.
I admit that don’t think Sanders would have learned anything if he tried again in eight years; but then again, that’s what I said about Clinton in 2008.
Robert Sneddon
@Keith G: Actually what she wants is 271 electoral college votes. The “biggest vote possible” is a luxury — getting 49.9% of the vote in Texas is worth bupkis to her, pushing up the Dem vote in California to 80% might be gratifying but it won’t affect who takes the White House in November. As I said earlier, she’s learned from what was done to her by a consummate campaigner in 2008 and she’s the reality-based candidate in the race, in both parties.
Mnemosyne
@WarMunchkin:
I’m fine with raising taxes and I think the government spends too little, especially on infrastructure and education. Plus I’m on-board with equal marriage and not killing black kids. But because I was squishy on Bernie and thought Hillary would get stuff done better, I was The Enemy and Not A True Liberal. Very tiring.
aimai
@efgoldman: Sure, but she’s elected by the Dems. I also just don’t see her as “the problem.” The ritual hatred assigned to the head of the DNC has become so pro forma its almost like the DNC should require each of its leaders to ritually disembowel themselves at the end of each convention. Or perhaps the winning presidential candidate should bite their heads off and consume them as their first meal after getting the nomination.
Robert Sneddon
@WarMunchkin: Senator, formerly Congressman Sanders has had 20-odd years of playing politics in DC to learn how it is done. The bad thing, for him, is that he’s never lost recently so he’s never had to change his thinking of how to win when faced with a real candidate. He holds rallies which are great for the ego but don’t translate into votes and delegates. He punts money into TV ads that people fast-forward through, if they watch broadcast TV at all, because it’s 2016, not 1996. He’s not thinking “What next?” as much as he should because he’s never had to.
Applejinx
@Kay: This. We’re all a lot more liberal than we used to be in the 90s. I continue to feel that Hillary is capable of reading those tea leaves and responding to ’em.
I continue to feel that Bernie is serving a vital role in DOCUMENTING the outer reaches of this, that wouldn’t have been credited otherwise. It was better when the race was genuinely contested: that’s when you really saw liberal/socialist voters that could go either way. Now, he will continue to get votes and might possibly even win something though I wouldn’t bet money on it (I’ll still donate money but I wouldn’t bet it, I’ll just give some) but his votes are much more likely to be dead-ender bernie or bust types.
And that’s just plain less valuable, because if you plausibly tell Hillary that you would die rather than vote for or help her ever, she has no reason to ever do a damn thing for you. And this is a political operation that fucking remembers stuff like that long after the election.
I got nothin’. It would take very shocking behavior from Hillary to stop me voting for her in the general: by that, I mean tacking to the center, not ‘getting thrown in jail over benghazi or emails’ because I don’t give a shit about that. All I care about is the progressive agenda and whether she stays left or goes right. I want her to stay with the electorate we’ve uncovered. They’re young and engaged and needed.
I am well pissed off at the Judean People’s Front/People’s Front Of Judea bullshit. Yes, it subsided for a while there: no it’s not gone because a bunch of people on each side just won’t let it go. I’m prepared to see some concessions made but talking like the left’s gotta be abandoned because they lost is asinine. By the same token, acting like Clinton cannot evolve to meet new needs that are made apparent, is equally asinine, and trying to throw the election to Trump because you see HILS as the Big Bad, is bordering on ‘I won’t speak to you anymore, you psychopath’ with me.
I don’t even care if Clinton is crooked as a corkscrew, and ate Vince Whoever. Everything’s so fucked and up for grabs, that if she’s interested in being crooked in my favor, and backing some shit I care about, I’ll call that a victory. The world does not end once you’ve proclaimed a new god-king. Somehow we must continue and things like climate and economic meltdown have a way of breaking down the fortresses we all thought so impregnable.
Please, just take a breath and try to do some semblance of the right thing, and we’ll muddle through all this somehow. :/
aimai
@WarMunchkin: We have this thing called writing, and language, which enables people to learn about processes they haven’t undergone, times they haven’t lived through, and about events and people they haven’t had a chance to personally experience. Nothing stopped Bernie from thinking through how he was going to campaign and what lessons he was going to draw from previous campaigns. He is repeating Hillary’s 2008 mistakes when that history, that he lived through, was available for him to study. That is on Bernie. “I’m just a 74 year old political novice” just doesn’t cut it when the guy is running to be President of the country. And this kind of special pleading, the soft bigotry of low expectations, is why so many people decided against Bernie as a candidate. He just wasn’t ready for prime time and he didn’t respect politics as a profession enough to do his homework.
Keith G
@Robert Sneddon:
I do not think that this is right.
It seems to be quite clear that what surprised Sanders, and tens of millions others, is that he got as far as he got at all. That is part of the problem.
There were times early on when he would take the stage to the cheers of tens of thousands and he had that look on his face like Mr. Smith being rescued by the Boy Rangers, an incredulous cheerfulness. ie happy, but not sure what the hell just happened.
Anne Laurie
@WarMunchkin:
Thing is, Sanders didn’t have to reinvent the campaign-wheel. There’s plenty he should’ve been able to pick up about what didn’t work in 2008 just from observing HRC’s campaign — and what did work, by studying candidate Obama’s. Acting as though 2016 was Year Zero and he could re-start the American presidential campaign process in a whole new more Sanders-friendly mode was exciting, even personally fulfilling, to some of his followers. But it didn’t work, just like us elderly cynics predicted.
As the saying (which I first heard from Pete Seeger, who was a communist when that was an actually dangerous political position): Education is what you get when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.
Keith G
@Robert Sneddon: If she can get to 271 AND flip the Senate and chew away at Speaker Ryan’s majority, she will be in high cotton. She will need a bit of help to get all that done. And if so, she will have quite a good two years.
Dan
coupla things:
1) tagging this as “Proud to be a Democrat” is truly master-class shade. Congrats, AL!
2) Bernie’s campaign has been awfully top heavy, with his consultant’s fees and media buys being way privileged over his actual ground game. they still only have one office in California! Passionate Bernie supporters have been constantly pleading with the campaign to open up more state offices and open them earlier – they often only opened a few weeks before the election date. One of Sanders’ biggest mistake was trying to use Weaver as his overall campaign manager. Dude just did not have the background or the chops for an enterprise at this scale and level of complexity.
3) Hillary absolutely needs to be able to speak to the youth vote and to the impassioned educated (mostly) white vote. These are important Dem constituencies! She doesn’t have to adopt every stance of Bernie’s to do so, but she needs to show them that she is sensitive to their concerns and speak directly to how her platform deals with those concerns.
4) Bernie’s a forerunner figure. If someone is as good as him in the future at speaking to youth and the educated (mostly) white liberals AND has a history of working with and listening to PoC, then that person will have the Dem nomination. the rise of Bernie shows just how more unabashedly liberal the party’s getting. this is a good thing!
Keith G
@Dan:
I am going to change up something if you don’t mind:
The rise of Bernie shows just how more unabashedly liberal some constituencies are getting and the Democratic Party needs to get its head out of it’s ass and take advantage of this change.
That is why even through I never for one instant thought Sanders could, or god forbid should, be our President, I really valued how he kept the party establishment from crawling up inside its own asshole. Just imagine how sclerotic Hillary Inc would have been had Sanders just gone fishing instead.
Eric NNY
Dear Anne Laurie,
I’ve been one of the fairly neutral, edging Bernie supporters around this here rag. I’ve also been here longer than I care to remark. I’ve always thought fondly of you while others snark on trivial issues they have problems with you about, i.e. post/twitter capture. I’ve always kind of thought of you as the glue of the blog. Lately, you are so anti-Bernie, I just can’t even. We all know (at least those of us with math skills) Bernie won’t be the nominee, but isn’t there something to be said about being a gracious winner? Seriously, review yourself. You’re a dog with a bone. Drop it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@aimai:
All of this is true. It’s like he and his advisors looked at President Obama’s winning coalition and decided their winning play was to have surrogates shit talk Obama and drive wedges through his coalition, and go after the kids once he caught fire. It’s political malpractice though since everyone knowledgeable about politics at all knows youth are the most unreliable voters, who are all now hyped up on Bernie the man, the legend, and want to be told what to do. He needs to be careful with the energy he’s raised, and direct it positively. It’s going to be his moment to do that, soon. I hope he’s up to it…
Dan
@Keith G:
considering that some of the moves that Hillary already was making around racial justice post-Ferguson, I kind of resist the idea that Hillary only moved to the left because Sanders ran. Because she was already moving left well before he started running.
But! the passion that Sanders has ignited in so many makes it much easier, I think, for the party to drive more to the left as a whole.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dan: In my view, Bernie didn’t push HRC to the left; instead, he pushed the conversation to the left.
WarMunchkin
@Anne Laurie: @aimai: Sure – but as you say, history didn’t start in 2008, and I’m pretty sure writing may have been invented before then. All I’m saying is that if that standard applies for Sanders ’16, it probably applies for Clinton ’08. Unless the statement we’re trying to say is that Clinton learned from Clinton ’08 but Sanders didn’t learn from Clinton ’08 (which I think has other problems), I’m not sure there’s something unique about Clinton’s learning ability in the context of this presidential campaign.
I don’t think this is a function of learning ability. Sanders is uninterested in being President, was always uninterested in the hard work it took, and his campaign showed it.
John the Arugalator
It’s good to see Bernie walking the walk, protecting the idealistic young kids in his campaign by sticking it to those silk-drawered one-percenter SOBs Devine and Weaver. Oh, wait.
WarMunchkin
@WarMunchkin: Or, you know, campaigns don’t matter as much as we like to think. There’s always a young + liberals candidate, and they seem to do about that well, don’t they?
Why?
Anne Laurie
@WarMunchkin:
No, I’m saying that Clinton learned from Obama ’08… the winning team. Even her enemies are saying she’s doing much better this year as a campaigner & her campaign is serving her much better than the ’08 version.
If Sanders’ campaign had paid attention, they’d have been able to see what worked & what didn’t from the most recent Democratic competition. Either they didn’t care to do so (stupid) or they had other priorities than making Sanders the Democratic candidate. Or both!
Dan
@Omnes: that’s a really elegant way to put it, and a reminder to HRC supporters like me who’ve been frustrated with the Sanders campaign these past two months or so that we should still be glad he ran.
@WarMunchkin:
to be fair, Obama’s campaign in ’08 was the first successful insurgency campaign in modern politics. Hillary’s grasp of nuts-and-bolts campaigning would have been sufficient to defeat anything less than true virtuosic excellence.
Obama’s ’08 campaign has become a template for campaigns going forward. Failing to study it sufficiently is a pretty big indictment on Sanders and his team.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dan: Thank you.
WarMunchkin
@Dan: @Anne Laurie: Okay, now I get what you’re saying – I’d still say that there’s a difference between running against that campaign and observing it (as well as Clinton hiring some of the people who worked for Obama). And it’s unfair to say that Sanders didn’t do anything with Obama’s campaign – he just didn’t manage to copy it well enough. (And I maintain that he was demonstrably uninterested in doing so). Sanders’ online tooling in particular is a fantastic piece of work, and I wish we had that when I was volunteering for Hillary.
Smiling Mortician
@Eric NNY:
I think part of the point of these posts, though, is that these words could appropriately directed to Bernie Sanders. Why on earth would he go on record at this point saying that he’s taking his campaign all the way to the convention, regardless of the outcome of the primaries? Seriously, he’s saying he’ll keep up the fight even after HRC has secured enough delegates for the nomination. Talk about a dog with a bone.
ruemara
@Misterpuff: What is the point of political though, but not action? No offense, but, you have to be terribly comfortable to reduce activism to a mental exercise and your vote in the direction of the country to a theory.
The Sanders campaign was already based in the heady clouds of theoretical revolution with zero reality based methods to achieve it. We don’t need a few million more people who expound well on the best of all possible solutions to the problems of the world, but fail to do much.
Miss Bianca
@aimai: O.M.G. I am getting all kinds of horrid images in my head now…
@Omnes Omnibus: H’m. Nice. I’ll go with that. I’ve been subliminally bugged by this whole “pushed Hillary to the left” narrative and I think you’ve put your finger on the actual dynamic.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: I’m fecking brilliant, I am.*
*How’s my stage Irish?
Craigo
@D58826: Norman Thomas was the most recent important figure.
redshirt
I don’t even want anything!
AxelFoley
@Cacti:
Yup. Talk about a Series of
Unfortunate EventsUnforced Errors.AxelFoley
@NR:
You might want to avoid this place then, before you get bukkake’d.
Yellowdog
@JGabriel: NO! She conceded a few days after the end of the primary. At the convention she called for a unanimous vote for Obama. Classy lady.
sunny raines
If Bernie turns out to be more of a pol than his fanborgs thought, they have only themselves to blame for being so gullible. Bernie is terrific with ideas and smart speechifying, but he is operating in the domain of politics and does not get to escape all it’s vileness. Maybe the purity progressive fanborgs can absorb a little lesson in reality. If so, it would be one more useful accomplishment of Bernie.
Cleos
@efgoldman:
Living long is the best revenge.
A close second is voting, which we despised olds do with infuriating regularity,
Applejinx
@Miss Bianca: I too will go along with that.
It’s no concern to me if Hillary is ‘really’ left: always going back to that Hils and Bernie pic as she tries to sell the health care thing. It’s not hard for me to believe Hillary has always been Left, the trouble is we can’t be sure she will stick to it, which makes these true convictions meaningless. And yet that does explain how insulting ‘push HRC to the left’ has been, to some.
Now, pushing the CONVERSATION to the left, on the other hand: bingo. And this is why Bernie should go to the convention. It might not be Hillary at all, who needs that reminder. She might already be decided, even pleased that there’s no need to make concessions to the wingnut contingent beyond sheer negotiation. But the Village, and the populace themselves, need the reminder of how insane this country has become.
The conversation’s most of the problem. It’s a collective madness that, I think, is starting to break.
retr2327
@singfoom: Your comment, and the tweet above (Does the Sanders team really think contesting California could increase his influence at the convention? If anything, it HURTS him), seem to be missing a key point: the people advising Sanders on when/whether to quit stand to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe more, if he doesn’t quit. So, ironically, the candidate who has spent the most time (and money) complaining about the pernicious and corrupting influence of money on politics seems to be blind to the example that’s happening right under his nose . . . .