Benioff and Weiss, you sons of bitches. Half the show’s viewers know what will happen in that tower. B+W know that we know. Now they are just messing with us for the fun of it.
The rest was pretty cool. Arya got a training montage and now the [ETA: second-] youngest Stark has run off the book. The show skipped one seemingly very important detail in fixing her myopia, but maybe they will add that later. That leaves us book fans with basically one Danaerys scene, which will be awesome but completely different, and a Kingsmoot. I know many people roll their eyes at the stuff that happens on Pyke, but I find it hilarious that the show’s Lovecraftian murder pirates are the ones who instituted gender equality, egalitarian principles of leadership and free democratic elections. It has a cute narrative irony that reminds me of the Kantian religious fundamentalists in Anathem. After that it’s terra incognita.
The theme of the week is everyone arranging their affairs before they open the envelope and find out what real purpose this series has for them. A surprising number of characters have had their big narrative turn in these three episodes*. Between now and next week I think everyone will become basically who they are when the last credits roll. This is the moment when everyone stops flying apart entropically and start snapping back together in a burning stabby collision of grand ambitions, great actors, large dragons, ice zombies and Jon Snow’s marble-chiseled ass.
Many of those envelopes will say take two steps and get beaten with a rock, but that’s Game of Thrones.
(*) Exceptions: Tyrion became fully awesome some time around the Blackwater, and Varys apparently went through his whole character arc before the series started.
***Update***
As readers have pointed out, Rickon is they youngest Stark and historical pirates often operated as relatively gender-neutral democracies. Thanks guys!
Tim F.
By the way, here is why Ramsay is a fucking idiot: the Umbers work with the Boltons in part because Walder Frey (spit) has Greatjohn Umber hostage. Apparently not everyone knows that Greatjohn is alive, but everyone does clearly know that Ramsay killed his dad and lied about it. This implies they also know Ramsay fed Walder Frey’s daughter to the dogs along with Walder Frey’s grandson. That means Lord Frey (spit) will have rather mixed feelings about Ramsay right now.
If I were a betting man, I would put down ten bucks that Walder Frey sent a raven to the Umbers and told them they can have Greatjohn back, and also by the way fuck the Boltons. Considering the way the scene played out I think Greatjohn junior is buying Ramsay’s trust with Rickon and plans to shove it up Ramsay’s ass some time later. At least I really, really hope that is what he is doing. Because flaying Rickon would be one hell of a dick move even for this show.
Mike J
That’s the way pirate societies were run in the Caribbean.
Lurking Canadian
I still have hopes that Arya will recover her identity through some combination of Nymeria and/or finding Needle.
I was gobsmacked at Rickon’s reappearance, given the seeming awesomeness foreshadowed in the last book.
And, there are Kantian fundamentalists in Anathem? How did I miss them? What role do they play in the story?
Dennis
Rickon is the youngest
Lurking Canadian
@Tim F.:
And you already answered my question. If Walder is holding the Greatjon, then the Umbers just get to steal the awesome that rightly belongs to Lord Manderly, but that’s OK as long as we get to see it. Substitute a wolf impostor for an Onion Knight impostor and we’re golden.
Comrade Mary
JPEG or it didn’t happen.
(Seriously, I’m HBOless and getting by with recaps right now.)
Ascap_scab
I have absolutely no idea what you’re yapping about, and really, I don’t wanna know. Thanks for posting.
Tim F.
@Lurking Canadian: I don’t remember what they were called. They were the ones who took Kant’s philosophy that we act as if a sensible observer were always watching us and made a deity out of it.
Dadadadadadada
@Mike J: Yeah, I was gonna say, that sounds an awful lot like the history of piracy in real life.
If memory serves, the Lovecraftian flourishes of the real pirates (Caribbean and western Atlantic, 18th-century type, though it’s probably common to many other types) were mostly intended to scare their victims into surrendering without a fight, thus limiting the bloodshed that the manpower-short pirates could ill afford.
Eric S.
@Tim F.:
I could buy into this if it wasn’t for the death of Shaggydog. Unless you don’t think Rickon is in on it.
Tim F.
@Eric S.: I thought Shaggydog was a different color. Ramsay has certainly never seen him. But who knows. Maybe we just need that one more reminder that Ramsay is a colossal asshole.
max
I know many people roll their eyes at the stuff that happens on Pyke, but I find it hilarious that the show’s Lovecraftian murder pirates are the ones who instituted gender equality, egalitarian principles of leadership and free democratic elections.
But they’re the show’s Norwegians/Swedes/Danes! And my Lovecraftian murder pirate ancestors did exactly that! I’m quite certain neither Eric Bloodaxe or Sweyn Forkbeard or Thorkell the Tall or any of the old Haakons or any of the rest of that part of my ancestry were what you would call… restrained.
(I’m also quite sure they’d had Donald Trump his ass on a platter.)
This is the moment when everyone stops flying apart entropically and start snapping back together in a burning stabby collision of grand ambitions, great actors, large dragons, ice zombies and Jon Snow’s marble-chiseled ass.
Well, I hope they don’t tidy it all up quite as fast as they seem to be insisting on, because it’ll be a little excessively tidy.
max
[‘I have this sudden urge to go find some black metal.’]
BruceFromOhio
That was a fun book. A little slow to get rolling, and then whoa, Jonesy, hold on to your britches.
Did they slaughter a newborn and its mother in honor of Mother’s Day?
BruceFromOhio
@Tim F.: Not quite a deity, but certainly an Order.
daveNYC
This season has been rocky. The Dorn and Bolton storylines have taken very abrupt turns that appear to have been done so that they can wrap them up (in burial linens) by the end of this season. Other storylines have been fine, but the show is still constrained by having eleventy billion plots running, which means each one gets ten minutes if they’re lucky.
Last night’s episode really felt like filler. It’s strange, even though, for example, with Daenerys’ story, there’s been advancement of the plot (she’s been captured, met the boss man, and now has met the ex-wives club) it hasn’t felt like there’s been much movement in her plot because what we’re seeing in the show are short snippets that mark what’s been happening, but within each one, very little actually happens. Time constraints and all that.
The scene of Jon heading out at the end of the episode looked awkward, like a last minute thing slapped together.
Surprise returns of old characters would work better if there weren’t so many characters to try and remember, and the returning ones had actually been interesting characters to begin with. Rickon coming back was supposed to be a huge reveal, and my first thought was, “Who the shit is this guy?”
Anonymous At Work
Dude, SPOILERS ALERT please? I am reading first, watching second, so I am boycotting Seasons 5 and 6 (onwards) until the books take the lead back.
Mike J
@Anonymous At Work: If the title of the post didn’t tip you off I’m not sure what else he could say.
moonbat
@Anonymous At Work: How’d you think Tim F. was going to review the episode w/o talking about it?
Kropadope
@Eric S.:
I’m not sure I’m buying that. The presented head was considerably smaller than those of the other direwolves. Remember Robb Stark’s wolf’s head looked huge on his body two years ago. Shaggydog is a mature direwolf and I believe the head last night belonged to a regular old wolf.
Iowa Old Lady
Shaggydog is the most awesome direwolf name ever, so I hope he’s still alive.
Keith G
I did like (in an “Oh, No!” type of way) the hints that 1) Melisande might try to corrupt Jon Snow to her cultish shtick 2) The High Sparrow was trying to go all Moonie on young King Tommen.
Dupe1970
@Tim F.: I wish that were true but I don’t think so. They killed and beheaded Rickon’s wolf which is a foreboding of something bad happening to Rickon.
Tim F.
@Anonymous At Work: The hell are you talking about. The post was almost entirely about my feelings. The only thing I semi-spoiled was that Arya’s vision gets better, and I think most people figured out quickly that the faceless men blinded her for training purposes.
henrythefifth
My theory is that Jaquen (and therefore the Many Faced God) has a soft spot for Arya. Otherwise, why make her list off those she wishes to kill….now Jaquen/God has those names too…and will either unleash Arya to kill them or have them killed. Perhaps part of the training is to remove all identity, but once you finally “graduate” you gain your old self back and are allowed some leeway to kill a few people yourself.
henrythefifth
@Anonymous At Work: How very Zen of you. Prepare to wait forever. :)
Kropadope
@Anonymous At Work: If it helps, a lot of the material they’re covering currently is from the fourth book and, frankly, where they’ve gotten ahead has diverged so wildly from the books that it can’t be realistically deemed to spoil the books.
Iowa Old Lady
We don’t have HBO so I haven’t seen the show, but my recollection from the books is that by the time he disappeared, Rickon had turned into kind of a scary kid. I hope the dead wolf head is a fake out and he disembowels Bolton.
CaseyL
@Iowa Old Lady:
That would be lovely, wouldn’t it? Hard to say: whereas Martin seemed intent on breaking every heart by killing off every sympathetic character, we’re in uncharted territory now.
Unfortunately, the show’s producers seem to think they need always need a Big Bad, and Ramsey has replaced Jeoffrey for that purpose. I disagree: I think it would be better to get rid of sadism-for-the-sake-of-sadism and focus more on the “Winter (and White Walkers) are Coming” theme.
ETA: Unless they want us so disgusted with the humans that we start rooting for the White Walkers. Now, there’s a thought!
Jack
Some eggheads might sniff at a GoT review in a politics blog, but then there had to be a metaphoric way to explain the Republican primary race ending in the nomination of an older, more insane and nasty version of Joffrey.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Anonymous At Work: Martin will never publish another book. He’s old, completely unmotivated and now wealthy beyond all dreams of avarice. He’s got writer’s block and zero motivation. Best watch the shows because that’s all you and I are ever going to get.
No, I’m not bitter, why do you ask?
raven
@Jack: yawn
Eric U.
@Mike J: yeah, well there is a little thing called the “front page.” and hiding spoilers.
I think Tim F. knows how to do it, but there are front pagers who know how to split a post. I am not worried about spoilers myself, but in my failed parenting, I have raised a child that is particularly sensitive about the issue. It can get really ugly around the U. household when spoilers are revealed, so I know there are others.
dexwood
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I’ve said here before that Martin simply may have lost interest in the books, though, that’s just a feeling. He is incredibly motivated in other ways with projects. He had a historic movie theater in Santa Fe renovated after he bought it. Saved it, really. And, he recently opened a state of the art, interactive art gallery in another building there he bought and saved, an old bowling ally. He’ll be doing a live interview with Stephen King in Albuquerque soon, too.
Alison Rose
@Eric U.: But it’s very easy, if you’re scrolling down the front page and see the post title, to scroll past the whole post and not peer directly at the text.
schrodinger's cat
I am sad that my favorite show, the Americans, does not get much love. Poor Paige! Is poor Martha in the motherland now or did they bump her off, en route.
Anonymous At Work
@Tim F.: Was requesting a Spoilers Alert link. I treat all posters the same, since some (like you) don’t spoil except to talk in vague terms but some start with the twist and deconstruct from there.
Keith G
@CaseyL: From Reddit:
gindy51
@Mike J: Black Sails, I love this show even more than GoT.
gindy51
@Kropadope: The head was way too small for a dire wolf and shaggy was a very dark gray almost black.
Tim F.
@Eric U.: Spoiler-phobes have told me that split posts don’t work if you have an RSS reader. Apparently you see the whole thing, including how JON SNOW IS HIS OWN FATHER AND THIS IS ACTUALLY A CRAZY TIME TRAVEL STORY. So now I write vaguely and put actionable stuff in the first comment.
Trollhattan
@schrodinger’s cat:
The residentura’s mood was so foul I figured Martha took an unexpected swim in the Caribbean, but learning of her family’s Afghanistan death could mean that was a red herring. They may leave us on tenterhooks re. Martha’s fate, the bastards. (Is it renewed for next season?)
Elizabeth for MOTY: holy crap did she ever lay the virtual wood to Paige along with the literal glass to Lisa[‘s head]. Hope she had a lovely day yesterday (because woe unto the family if she didn’t). Paige is already turned, she just hasn’t realized it yet. Nothing like being the only thing between Pastor Tim, Alice and death to keep a teenager’s angst level set to 11.
MarySNJ
Hi B-Jers. I’m a long time lurker, but couldn’t resist chiming in on my favorite TV show.
My thoughts: SPOILERS
In the episode, I think I heard the SmallJon say his father is dead. I know he’s alive in the books, and maybe it’s a lie here too, but if he’s dead (because the actor who played the GreatJon had a scheduling conflict), I don’t know how the fan-theorized Northern Conspiracy will evolve on the show, if it does at all. It made me angry that he turned over Rickon and Osha. I’m sick of Ramsay and I hate torture porn, and I have a bad feeling about this. Also, I’m angry that the Northmen would be so cavalier about kinslaying.
I’m tired of mustache-twirling Ramsay- full stop, and I’m bored with Danaerys’ and Arya’s storylines. At least we may get something new from Arya next episode, because I’m sick of her been beaten and bloodied. I don’t care about Dany’s visit to the Dosh Kahleen and hope we see dragon fire soon.
I’m so bored with Mereen (in the books also). I love Tyrion but he doesn’t need to be in every episode if they don’t have something for him to do. That scene was a waste of time, although I liked seeing Varys being a player for a change.
I’m mostly bored with Kings Landing, the High Sparrow, Jaime and Cersei and FrankenGregor. Qyburn was somewhat interesting this week, although seeing him surrounded by kiddies gave me the creeps, and I liked seeing Kevan and Lady Olenna. I feel for Tommen. Kid’s out of his league and knows it. He’s getting bad advice from his mother and no match for the Sparrow. I want to see him do something other than making feckless threats.
The best parts are Jon and Bran… Jon’s post-resurrection and interactions with the NWmen and Tormund. I think Jon really wanted to reason to spare Ollie, but Ollie died defiant.
And I loved the whole Tower of Joy set up. I loved the TOJ fight scene, even if it is different than how it happened in the book. I liked young Ned. I liked Bran’s role in the whole event. It’s a clever way to wrap in important details from the books. I can’t wait for the next part of that storyline.
All in all, it seemed like a transitional episode, and after last week’s chock-full episode, this was a bit of a filler.
schrodinger's cat
@Trollhattan: Yes it has been renewed for season 5. That was the mother of all teen-mom confrontations. Liz is scary and Stan is smug.
Trollhattan
@MarySNJ:
Being strictly a show-watcher I find it nearly impossible to resolve connections among the many, many storylines much less comprehend how the characters relate to one another. I kept wondering why we were subjected to Ramsay’s extended torture-porn week after week and while it now seems he’ll be around long enough to root against in some kind of grand final battle, it’s been a grind to watch. But by break point was Martin’s creating a singular kind, compassionate and innocent character (the anti-Ramsay?) for the sole purpose of burning her alive. Yay. I still watch for the sheer spectacle but have run out of fvcks to give about where the author and show runners are headed, and sure as hell am not bothering with the books in the future. Let’s have our dragons v. freezer guys battle and be done with it.
Trollhattan
@schrodinger’s cat:
Does Stan have any shot at Gaad’s job? That would get Phillip all kinds of excited.
Brachiator
@Mike J:
I was about to throw this in, so … just ditto.
There was also some degree of racial equality as well with respect to some pirates.
@CaseyL:
The later novels, uneven as they are, give a great sense of social breakdown resulting from the fall of King Robert and the misrule of the Lannisters. Ramsey fits in with this very well.
I think that the show would be better if it matched Ramsey’s sadism with more political cunning, making him not only someone to be feared, but a powerful ruler expanding his territory. He should rightly be King Joffrey dialed up to 11.
I wonder whether Martin will ever continue the novels. He could just sit back, throw out plot elements to the TV show runners and live it up on whatever HBO pays him. He may have become someone like George Lucas, and lost sight of what made his stories so good in the first place, and unable to continue them in any satisfying way.
The tv show, almost entirely free of the novels, wobbles a bit, but seems to know where it’s going.
ETA: ran across a story about some bonehead who is intent on spoiling as much of the show as possible by posting summaries in advance of episode showings that strongly suggest that the writer has inside information. I hate this stuff, but some people apparently derive great pleasure from the distress of others.
patroclus
I think Rickon’s about to get tortured; Tommen’s about to get out-smarted, the Sons of the Harpy are about to become leaderless, the Dothraki about to see a dragon, Samwell’s about to become a maester, Loras is about to be tried but I hope he chooses a trial by combat, Ramsey’s not gonna be Warden of the North for long, the Whitewalkers are gonna have an inevitable battle with the dragons (but that seems far off), Tyrion’s about to re-take control of Meereen, Bran’s about to have a vision that proves that L+R = J and the High Sparrow’s not long for this world.
Brachiator
@henrythefifth:
Quite a few show watchers seem to want Arya to hone her assassin skills and then go rogue bad ass, crossing names off her list.
But it makes much more sense for her to really and truly give up the identity which she so fiercely tried to maintain, and to be sent to kill someone that she loved, such as Jon Snow or Sansa.
MarySNJ
@Trollhattan:
I get that. Shireen’s death was the event that hurt the most last season, even with other awful and hideous events that piled up like stinking carcasses. While her character is a little different than her TV counterpart, Shireen is still very innocent. So, yeah, the innocents end up being consumed by those who have power. I guess, in some ways, that’s true in our world too. I have a theory that her death was the sacrifice that pays for Jon’s life… Does that make it better or worse?
I’m just so tired of evil coming out on top so much of the time in this show.
I haven’t given up on the books (or show) yet, but I wonder if GRRM has, now that the show has passed the timeline of A Dance With Dragons.
Dadadadadadada
@Brachiator: Also, captives of pirates, upon their release, frequently turned right around and volunteered for the pirate crews that had held them, because pirates treated their captives better than the Royal Navy or anyone else of the time treated their employees.
I read Colin Woodard’s The Republic of Pirates somewhat recently, and it makes it really hard to see the pirates as bad guys, especially considering what they were up against. Basically, the pirates were pro-freedom insurgents against a nightmarishly tyrannical slave society. Pirates get a bad rap, is what I’m saying.
Michael Furlan
Rickon is actually Arya.
KC from the DMV
@Trollhattan: A bit of a spoiler for people who have read the books, it’s impossible for Shireen’s story to play out like on the show. A lot of book readers, me included were pissed because that was completely out of character for Stannis.
Brachiator
@MarySNJ:
Martin seemed to lift parts of this storyline from the Greek story of Iphigenia, who was sacrificed by her father King Agamemnon to ensure success at Troy. So, Shireen’s death was extremely shocking, but not surprising.
I don’t see the connection to Jon Snow, but this is an intriguing idea.
There still seem to be a few honorable types still alive. For now. I read somewhere that Martin kinda promised to end everything on a hopeful note. We’ll see what happens.
schrodinger's cat
@Trollhattan: Isn’t it surprising, that they have never worked him for information, or tried to turn him.
patroclus
@Brachiator: Well, if you go with the theory that it’s a re-telling of the (fantasy) Wars of the Roses, then, while it might not end “happily,” it’s gonna end with some sense of stability and justice. The names Stark and Lannister are clearly taken from York and Lancaster – although their respectful roles are instead Targareyen and Barratheon. A War of the Roses ending presumably has Dany becoming Queen of Westeros and then marrying the standard bearer of the other side.so as to unite the kingdom. Is that Jon? Tommen? Tyrion seems destined to be the new hand, Samwell the new Grand maester. But everything else is still a jumble and, like the books, can still go in a lot of directions. GRRM seems unlikely to finish the series (although he might – finally – finish Book 6), but the show will have an ending. And it will be somewhat satisfying; albeit with a lot of show favorites dying along the way.
Soylent Green
Apropos of this topic: “Keeping up with the Starks”
henrythefifth
@Brachiator: Ahh, yes, that would make sense.
goblue72
@CONGRATULATIONS!: I’ve been having that feeling as well. The man wouldn’t know editing to save his life. And it feels at times that he has written himself into so many sprawling threads and character that he’s in part lost control over how to tie it up outside of some broad outlines in his head. You can kind of feel it with the season so far. Freed from Martin’s books, the scriptwriters seem to hacking away at weeding the various plot lines in an attempt to start pulling the whole thing together into a coherent and conclusive whole. I fear it will result in some un-evenness and the baroque Russian nesting doll nature of the series will get lost a bit, but they have no other choice. Series has to end at some point, and better on a high note than running into the ground a total hot mess.
goblue72
@patroclus: That actually sounds all quite sensible.
Lurking Canadian
@goblue72: I’m about where I was with late-stage Jordan. I would gladly pay hardcover prices for a bullet list of the remaining plot points. I presume he had some kind of ending in mind.
I’d be happy if the next book was “Oh fuck it. Look, I can’t tell you how exactly, but Ser Davos is secretly the bastard son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Miri Maz Dur; Danaerys is actually Davos’s daughter, sired during a drunken revel with Lady Olenna; and both of them are wargs; they fly the dragons North of the Wall (fuck, no I don’t know how they get across the sea either) and melt the heart of winter, which is actually a giant clockwork contraption created by Sauron and Aslan while they were passing a bong one night. Fuck, no, I TOLD you I can’t explain it!”
Kristine Smith
Hoping that Rickon isn’t tortured, but is instead dangled in front of Sansa as a way to get her to return to Winterfell. Which she does, at the head of an army.
I can hope.
I so wanted some sort of banquet scene with Sansa and Roose, so I could see the look on Roose’s face when the musicians started playing “The Rains of Castamere.” Then Sansa would smile as Brienne draws her sword.
Come to think, that scene would work just as well with Ramsey, though he might not recognize the song.
I just want some good people to get a break.
Mayur
I am really, really hoping for the Rickon-Umber-Bolton chapter to play out in much the same way as the Davos-Manderly-Bolton/Frey chapter, if only because that was so satisfying in the books. Rickon’s wolf really being dead would actually hit me almost as hard as Shireen’s sacrifice; I have a real thing for dogs and had to stop watching GoT after the episode in which Ned kills Lady. Also, we’ve already had to watch Ramsay torture and murder countless innocents; adding one to the mix doesn’t really constitute anything more than gratuitous sadism to the viewer, IMO.
Martin wrote the sacrifice scene BTW; that doesn’t mean that anything similar will happen in the books but it DOES mean that he thought it within the bounds of possibility for Stannis’s character. I’m on the fence about that; I can imagine Stannis doing something like this but I would have preferred to have actually been shown that things were really dire for him in the way the books do; one raid where the horses and mercenaries are lost just seems too sudden to segue into such a morally damning act when it would have been possible to create a situation in which Stannis is genuinely weighing the fate of himself, his family, and his troops against the life of his daughter.