The New York Times has a piece up on Donald Trump’s disgusting treatment of women:
Donald J. Trump had barely met Rowanne Brewer Lane when he asked her to change out of her clothes.
Donald was having a pool party at Mar-a-Lago. There were about 50 models and 30 men. There were girls in the pools, splashing around. For some reason Donald seemed a little smitten with me. He just started talking to me and nobody else.
He suddenly took me by the hand, and he started to show me around the mansion. He asked me if I had a swimsuit with me. I said no. I hadn’t intended to swim. He took me into a room and opened drawers and asked me to put on a swimsuit.
–Rowanne Brewer Lane, former companion
Ms. Brewer Lane, at the time a 26-year-old model, did as Mr. Trump asked. “I went into the bathroom and tried one on,” she recalled. It was a bikini. “I came out, and he said, ‘Wow.’ ”
Mr. Trump, then 44 and in the midst of his first divorce, decided to show her off to the crowd at Mar-a-Lago, his estate in Palm Beach, Fla. “He brought me out to the pool and said, ‘That is a stunning Trump girl, isn’t it?’ ” Ms. Brewer Lane said.
Donald Trump and women: The words evoke a familiar cascade of casual insults, hurled from the safe distance of a Twitter account, a radio show or a campaign podium. This is the public treatment of some women by Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president: degrading, impersonal, performed. “That must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees,” he told a female contestant on “The Celebrity Apprentice.” Rosie O’Donnell, he said, had a “fat, ugly face.” A lawyer who needed to pump milk for a newborn? “Disgusting,” he said.
But the 1990 episode at Mar-a-Lago that Ms. Brewer Lane described was different: a debasing face-to-face encounter between Mr. Trump and a young woman he hardly knew. This is the private treatment of some women by Mr. Trump, the up-close and more intimate encounters.
Don’t get me wrong- Trump’s behavior is misogynistic, dehumanizing, and vile, but the NY Times misses the point. This is how Donald Trump treats everyone- as objects to be used to fulfill his ambition. It just looks and is uglier with women because he views them as nothing more than shiny sex objects. But it’s exactly the same way he treats men- as objects to be used, manipulated, and deployed to fulfill his needs and ambitions and then discarded the moment they are useless.
Witness his behavior during the primary campaign with the other candidates. If someone is useful, he ignores or props them up like he did with Carson after Cruz beat him in Iowa. For goodness sakes, watch him literally use Chris Christie as a prop:
That’s just who he is. A sociopath. Probably technically a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but I am sure there are actual experts who read this blog who can more accurately describe and ascribe the DSM to the Donald better than me.
It’s terrifying, really.
Baud
He really does give the rest of us a bad name.
Rick
Billary is going to make the same mistakes that Republicans made against Trump. She’s already subject to Twitter attacks, insults, and nicknames. Ignoring it doesn’t work, getting in the mid doesn’t work, is Trump unbeatable?
#Twitterization
#CrookedHillary
Yutsano
@Rick: Sigh. Got banned again?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Rick: No.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Yutsano: Hey, maybe he turned over a new leaf?
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Dennis
He’s worse with women, so, no I don’t think any point was missed.
Glidwrith
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Nah, the Little Pimple has simply Risen again.
trollhattan
@Yutsano:
It would appear so. I wonder how mom puts up with the continually changing IP address.
JPL
The article mentions that he hires females for top executive spots, and that appears to be based on intelligence, and the ability to do the job. He does treat his boy toys, like shit though. Christie must love the limelight.
Davis X. Machina
The record popular vote gender gap in a general Presidential election is 11%, IIRC
Could we see that doubled? There’s at least a chance….
John Cole
@Dennis: The point is he treats everyone like that. He just treats men and women differently to suit his needs. Yes, I would agree that he treats men worse, but the bigger point is that to some extent we are all Rowanne Brewer Lane.
Sometimes I honestly think you all just like to argue.
Yutsano
@trollhattan: Depends on how tech savvy she is. Most parents wouldn’t notice.
SFAW
@John Cole:
No we don’t.
Julia
By all indications, Trump is a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The tell is his continually bragging about himself and his inability to tolerate any criticism. About 25 years ago, a reporter called Trump a short-fingered vulgarian. He is still furious over that if you all recall to this day, he’ll mention it insisting his fingers are fine. The man is mentally unbalanced.
trollhattan
@John Cole:
I told you once.
Chyron HR
@John Cole:
I thought the point of leaving the door open for E.D. Kain, Freddie de Boer, your best buddy Tim the racist pederast painter,the hashtag spewing dolt, etc. was that arguing was HEALTHY and we were all big lame-os for rejecting their “alternative viewpoints”.
SFAW
@trollhattan:
Take it to Complaints
SFAW
@Julia:
Hey, at least “he says what he thinks! Not like those other looozahs in politics.”
Which means that if Jeffrey Dahmer had a good schtick (and was born into money), he could have been the Rethug nominee.
Amir Khalid
Things like this give me hope that “letting Trump be Trump” will work out better for Hillary than for Trump. Beyond his ignorance, his intellectual laziness, his casual bigotry, there’s an ugliness to the man that just keeps coming to the fore.
Villago Delenda Est
@John Cole: What ever gave you that idea?
Villago Delenda Est
@SFAW: Stupid git.
smintheus
He’s the kind of person who addresses people by demeaning nicknames, even in public. We just had that kind of president a few years ago, and ought to have learned what a mess that kind of jerk will make of the country.
Baud
@John Cole: No we don’t.
ETA: Just saw # 13.
Kropadope
@Rick:
Oh, noes, someone is being attacked on Twitter. Next I suppose you’ll tell me that water is wet.
@Glidwrith:
As is his Right.
Kay (not the front-pager)
OT, but it looks like the hunt for Hillary’s VP is narrowing down. Definitely it will be a Democrat, almost certainly a male, although Elizabeth Warren is a possibility. How do I know? I just listened to the always wrong Mark Halperin!
Villago Delenda Est
@SFAW: Never forget…Ted Bundy was a GOP operative.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
That’s a big part of the reason why he’s the “presumptive nominee.”
And in a country where our best economic days are behind us, there are plenty of non-Rethugs who are willing to give him a try, I’ll bet. (Because it’s more fun to punch down when you’re worried about your own future.)
Kropadope
@Davis X. Machina:
Well, hopefully there are enough non-troglodyte men to prevent that from happening.
SFAW
@Baud:
I was just anticipating your response, tried to save you the effort, trying to get my dibs in for being President Baud’s spokesmodel.
cleek
Trump’s trying to make America tone deaf again.
thruppence
Trump needs to meet BerserkerCat Maine Coon
Kropadope
@SFAW:
This isn’t necessarily true. We’re in a pretty strong place right now compared with the rest of the world though, admittedly, there is a lot of economic weakness globe-wide. Still, if we make the appropriate investments we can literally build a better future for ourselves. A new American century is possible, as long as we don’t listen to the advice of the “Project for a New American Century.”
greennotGreen
The fact that Trump is popular among a segment of the voting public reminds me of a theme I see expressed on television often: the “hero” engages in deplorable behavior. From cops who routinely search without a warrant and use violence or threats of violence during interviews (and it almost always works) to ads where the owner of the advertised make of car won’t let his daughter put her “My daughter is a star pupil at…” bumpersticker on his car (“Put it on your mother’s car,) or people who excuse their on the job incompetence to the fact that they were “eating a Milky Way,” there are just a lot of people who want to see awful behavior normalized.
Actually, maybe that explains a lot. Maybe Donald Trump eats a lot of Milky Ways.
Mike J
Report from NV Republican convention:
The Dem convention is quite the clusterfuck, as anyone who has ever been a Democrat would expect.
jl
I skimmed the story, which was pretty miserable. I agree that Trump tends to treat everyone, men and women, very badly, and he con’t care.
Seems to have some special issues with women. They are not allowed to be deviate from perfect hotness, and the concept of deviation includes having to pee, poop and care for their kids. Of course, if a woman can help him make money, or get a vanity license plate, then he’ll make a partial (very partial) exception, as long as she stays in the background.
The guy is generally vile. A high class self-centered boor. In addition to other problems.
SFAW
@cleek:
Bastard. That was so painful, I had to puncture my eardrums to make it stop.
You owe me new ears.
Major Major Major Major
@Chyron HR: Who’s Tim and hashtag?
D58826
@John Cole: Other than looking at pictures of Steve what else would we do on this blog? :-) :-) If it wasn’t for Trump you could probably get a good argument going on the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin.
The Lodger
@smintheus: Our children has not learned. Sad.
jl
@John Cole:
‘ Sometimes I honestly think you all just like to argue. ‘
It is a compulsion, not a preference, and Mr. Cole only sometimes thinks that? He should know by now.
@D58826: Which brings to mind, if Mr. Cole finds the endless and bitter BJ debates on every little thing annoying, he could easily fix it with more pet pix!
cleek
@SFAW:
will these work?
greennotGreen
@jl: Not high class, just rich. Not the same thing.
Mike in NC
Trump’s record with women is bound to make Bill Cosby look good by comparison.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: does Baud2916 a ke you wear a bikini as his spokesmodel too?
Anya
I agree with Cole. Trump is a horrible human being who doesn’t value anyone. He’s boorish and comes off as dumb as fuck. But he’s clearly sexist and categorizes women on their looks. The Trump stories on the NYT piece is similar to the stuff that was alleged against Herman Cain, but because it’s more linked to entertainment and promotional stuff, it doesn’t have the same level of seriousness in Trump’s case. Anyway, I find Trump’s obsession with his daughter’s body and her looks extremely creepy. What kind of a creep sexualizes his daughter?
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: I thought Tim was “Ted and Helen”, but maybe I’m wrong.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: Hey, I thought you were the Baud! 2016! bikini model.
SFAW
@Kropadope:
You’re right. That asteroid might hit China, and the damage does not extend beyond its borders. but barring that, the US has shown little desire or ability to do what’s necessary to return the country to manufacturing preeminence.
On the plus side, when Bangalore (or wherever) starts outsourcing their Help Desk business to us, that’s when we’ll make our move!
China and India are probably not going away re: economic power anytime before we die. Nothing wrong with them having a thriving manufacturing infrastructure, but it means the US has to share (if it can), unlike the days when we were the only game in town.
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: That is correct.
trollhattan
Listening to “Wait, Wait” and am completely smitten with Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: No one wants that!
Amir Khalid
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Whom could Halperin have in mind? Meg Whitman? Carly Fiorina? Nikki Haley? Michele Bachmann? Kelly Ayotte? I mean, come on, man. There is no Republican, man or woman, who would be useful as Veep in a Hillary administration. She will have plenty to do without having a rogue Veep to deal with. I’m not American, and even I know that.
Keith G
@Kropadope: We might have to redefine ‘best’.
Decades of labor intensive resource extraction and industrial manufacturing, while facing weaker international competition gave us quite a head wind for our standard of living. As we know, things have changed.
I doubt it can be the same and have such bountiful outcomes growing from such cavalier efforts. We are going to have to do some serious rethinking about the relationships between capital, labor, and the common good.
Kropadope
I just overheard my dad telling my aunt that he didn’t really vote for Trump, but rather Kasich. He lied to my sister and me in order to make us angry, but my response was more along the lines of “why would you vote for that idiot? You know (a little) better.” My sister for her part, seems to be looking forward to Trump burning the world down.
Major Major Major Major
@SFAW: America doesn’t need to make stuff to succeed. Some would say we don’t even need to work particularly hard (IMO correctly). Emoji Martin and (sorry, forget the other) had a fun back-and-forth recently about universal income in the age of internationalism and automation.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
Me in a bikini (or perhaps one of those nuthuggers the Quebecois used to wear at OOB) might cause the end of life as we know it. At the very least, it would make children scream and grown men cry.
MattF
@cleek: Or, possibly, the collected performances of Florence Foster Jenkins.
The Wiki article linked to above is worth reading, btw.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: If that was “Trolls for $200”, I’ll take my money, please. :-)
MattF
@Amir Khalid: A demonstration of the fact that it is impossible to run out of dumb things to say.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan: Many Democrats here think she is too cozy with Wall Street, and consider her Republican-lite.
scav
Trumps’s Secret Service guards will be the Amazons 2.0, with kevlar bikinis and he will insist on protection for life. The sneer against Besos will merely add to his joy and how often he mentions them.
D58826
@Kropadope: Well me for one or as my conservative sister put it ‘when did I go over to the dark side’!
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: I’m sorry, we’re fresh out. But we have some nice parting gifts for you, which you can collect on the way out. Thanks for playing.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Monokinki
Iowa Old Lady
@scav: Can you imagine taking a bullet for Trump?
Major Major Major Major
I seriously can’t believe our troll already has a new nym.
ThresherK
@Major Major Major Major: Re Bob’s Burgers, from early, early thismorning when I had insomnia: My wife, who remembers being a 13-year-old girl, knew how great Tina Belcher was after about three episodes.
And if you remember “Home Movies”, Loren Bouchard and Brendon Small made that. It was the first thing on Adult Swim that really grabbed me. Bouchard went on to make Bob’s Burgers and Small went on to make Metalocalypse. Ergo, the “motorcycle with four sidecars” reference from Gene.
D58826
@SFAW: We just have to figure out a way to give the folks (older, younger and future) who used to fill those manufacturing slots a real stake in the new economy. While flipping burgers at $15.00 and hour is better than $7.00, it is still flipping burgers. A possible promotion to salting the fries isn’t much to build a career on
MattF
@Major Major Major Major: He/she/it is probably logged in at a local library. Wouldn’t want to waste a new IP.
Amir Khalid
@cleek:
Right now, I am listening to Florence Foster Jenkins on YouTube. She doesn’t sound quite as bad as that girl mangling The Star Spangled Banner.
Major Major Major Major
@ThresherK: Tina’s so great. I love the way she runs.
I didn’t know that this was part of the Home Movies diaspora, thanks.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
I was told the media would be legitimizing Trump. He’s already at war with Bezos and the WaPo and now the Grey Lady’s chiming in. At least he’ll always have cable news.
@SFAW: That’s a concern of the white Calvinist working class that haven’t been falling over themselves to vote Democratic for a while now, anyways. The rest of us have come to the notion that ship has sailed, we’re going to have to find different innovative paths to keep the American economy humming.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah, it does. There are precious few ways to increase the general wealth: manufacturing, mining, agriculture are about it. Everything else is, at some level, just moving money around. A slight oversimplification, but generally true. (I’m sure there will be someone who replies “You’re forgetting about XXX! So You’re WORNG!” As you kids used to say: “Whatevs.”)
I realize there are some out there who try to tell us that the “service economy” (or a functional analogue thereof) will be a key to prosperity. It won’t.
Can we go back to Preznit-in-Waiting Trump, now?
trollhattan
@scav:
Gadaffi’s security detail is trained and available.
Baud
@Baud:
Hmm. That should be monokini.
In any event, whatever my spokesmodel wears, you can be assured he or she will have on more clothes than I will.
SFAW
@Iowa Old Lady:
Self-inflicted, maybe
Gelfling 545
@SFAW: consider those people who always”say what they think”. I was married to one, once. They do indeed say what they think but they never, ever seem to think anything pleasant.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: OT: I have your chocolate shortbread info for you.
Provided you aren’t looking for million dollar shortbread (regular shortbread rectangles with caramel topped with ganache), what you want to do is make one batch of regular shortbread dough and one batch of chocolate shortbread dough and then mix them as you need for the type of cookie you’re doing. I’ve always seen these done as a pinwheel type of cookie, but if I’m following what you were describing last night correctly you were describing a shortbread bar or plank where 1/2 was plain shortbread and 1/2 was chocolate. So in the links below you’ll find a recipe for a chocolate shortbread to just mate with your regular shortbread when making your cookies. This is from Martha Stewart – I’ve found that her recipes tend to be quite good. The following three are to different baking blogs that do the traditional chocolate and plain shortbread pinwheel cookies. The final one is to a bunch of related gluten free shortbread recipes in case you’re interested in that too.
http://www.marthastewart.com/316293/chocolate-shortbread
https://stressbaker.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/chocolate-swirl-shortbread/
http://www.bigfatblog.co.uk/06/09/2012/pinwheel-cookies-recipe/
https://pumpkinfondue.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/chocolate-shortbread-swirls/
(the one above has recipes for both the regular and chocolate shortbread)
http://glutenfreeonashoestring.com/gluten-free-shortbread-cookies-5-ways/
Enjoy!
Kay (not the front-pager)
@Amir Khalid: I think his “little bit of reporting” was a green room discussion with Chris Matthews. Matthews was pushing the idea that Clinton should choose Kasich as her running mate until Kasich explained to him that it would be a cold day in Hell before he considered getting Democratic cooties from Hillary Clinton.
SFAW
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
And that’s the point — that we have to find new/different paths to remain in the game. Not saying it can’t be done, just that the electorate has shown little stomach for the extended (and hard) effort it will take to get us there.
D58826
@SFAW: I worked for a company involved in the manufacturing sector and saw from the inside how the rust belt came about. This was in 1982 and the height of the cold war I kept say that the US has to build things. We can’t just throw hamburgers at the Russians. Today I guess we would be throwing CDS and hedge funds.
D58826
@Adam L Silverman: See Cole, we don’t always argue about everything. Unless you don’t like the receipt.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: From my understanding XXX is about moving certain things around, not necessarily money, but the ladies do get paid better than the men.
schrodinger's cat
@John Cole: So do you, why else have a political blog?
Major Major Major Major
@SFAW: I don’t think anybody’s trying to say we just sit and coast.
What I was referring to by “making stuff” was your automobiles and such–what people mean when they say “america doesn’t make things any more!!”–not say pharmaceutical research and smartphone design, which I guess are also “making” “stuff” but not in the way I meant.
schrodinger's cat
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the recipe and your answer on the specific steaks to buy. I have added it to my recipe file.
smintheus
@trollhattan: Raimondo forced pension cuts on state workers in RI, while investing state funds in high risk, high fee hedge funds that serve mostly to make her Wall Street pals very wealthy.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: There is going to be zero political will for universal income.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: I just spent the last 20 minutes learning more about the french dough and trying to figure out a good recipe. One of the ones linked last night had lemon extract, and there is definitely no lemon in these. Will check out your links now!
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: Political will hasn’t entered into this discussion.
Villago Delenda Est
We really need more Donald Drumpfs around to reinforce the assertions of Sideshow Bob and Loki.
scav
@trollhattan: Might be why he softened on the outright Muslim ban — he does have a known preference for imports. But that does have to be balanced against his expressed fondness of straight-haried blonds in the background.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodinger’s cat: You’re welcome. As soon as I can find a seasoning/marinade recipe I like for the chicken, I’ll pass it along. I’ve never made the chicken shawarma/gyro/doner kebab myself, so I have to go a looking.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@SFAW:
Which part of the electorate? And which part is going to give Trump a try because he can punch down? Hint: They’re already punching down. The unions ain’t exactly breaking for Trump either.
There’s always this fear that there’s this giant untapped well of disgruntled white folk that’s going to tip this election too. Y’all realize 1980 was thirty-six years ago, right?
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: No worries. Just wanted to make sure you weren’t just talking (commenting) to yourself last night.
jl
@Adam L Silverman:
” No one wants that! ”
But that is perfect for the Baud! 2016! campaign outreach. He needs to offer you more cans of Night Train, huh?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@scav: Banning Muslims was going to be a proud achievement of his first hundred days. And it will be again the next time he mentions it.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: This is the recipe where the texture of the cookie seems most similar to the ones at the bakery. If you moved all the chocolate swirls to one side and moved all the non-chocolate parts to the other side, it would look like the beloved cookie.
https://stressbaker.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/chocolate-swirl-shortbread/
It just occurred to me that I could go to the bakery and (casually) ask if those cookies have eggs in them. The answer would tell me whether they actually use the french dough or not, I think! I have saved the two recipes from last night and this one. It will be interesting to see how closely the recipes resemble one another.
Thanks a bunch.
edit: Late in the thread last night, someone suggested making a chocolate log and a non-chocolate log and pressing them together. I am pretty sure that is how they do it at the bakery because it’s not a perfect half-and-half with a rigid center point. Some of the cookies have more chocolate; some have more of the non-chocolate. So between the 4 of you, I think I’m getting pretty close!
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: That’s true, but I didn’t realize the discussion was about politics rather than policy. I was responding to a conversation about how America needs to “make stuff” in order to prosper.
Brachiator
@Anya:
But Trump also promotes women’s careers and championed women in real estate when other people, including his own father refused to recognize them. I don’t think this excuses Trump, but it does make him more complex, especially compared to religious conservatives who only see women as food service baby makers.
She fulfills his ultimate ideal. A babe with a brain. And he seems to favor her over his other children.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: I thought that would be the one you’d go for based on your description last night. Happy to help.
jl
@Brachiator:
” And he seems to favor her over his other children. ”
Well, that bit might miss a point. Why does he? ‘Cause he thinks she’s hot? Not good, if that is the case.
Iowa Old Lady
Jon Ralston is tweeting about chaos at the Nevada caucuses.
max
@John Cole: The point is he treats everyone like that. He just treats men and women differently to suit his needs. Yes, I would agree that he treats men worse, but the bigger point is that to some extent we are all Rowanne Brewer Lane.
Well, yeah, that’s rather the point of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The personality inside views people as objects (just as the NPD views himself) to be manipulated for the NPD’s personal benefit. It isn’t (in and of itself) psychopathy, because a narcissist can be genuinely emphatic and/or sympathetic (although they might very well fake it to take advantage of you), whereas a psychopath doesn’t have it in them to care. (They just don’t connect normally – that’s an organic brain issue.)
All human being have a certain amount of narcissism but for an NPD, maintaining the grandiose self-image is all-important. (Which is why so many people in show business can be similarly narcissistic.) Part of the enjoyment of the NPD is getting away with power trips like the above – getting to indulge in those power trips is the entire point but also part of the act. Trump himself apparently makes a distinction between Donald the human being and ‘Trump’ the pretend all-powerful image he is playing.
Trump sockpuppeting a fake PR person character is probably the ultimate clear NPD move – he gets to praise himself with exaggerated hyperbole (that he wants to believe because he needs that) while trying to con and/or manipulate other people into going along, which is also big fun when it works.
A sociopathic disdain for rules is kind of common among rich, socially isolated elite types, particularly when it comes to taxes (see Sheldon Adelson who is now backing Trump), but I’d not clear he’s a sociopath or psychopath. Too much noise to say. Him being the gold standard in NPD seems like it’s bad enough.
(FYI, the best argument for him as President in spite of his narcissism is simply that he’s too invested in wanting people to praise him to blow up the world or actually run the country into the ground. His ideology is Trump and that only works when things are going well. Unfortunately that also means silencing critics, presumably using law enforcement, is going to be Job One.)
A giant flaming asshole, basically and politically, a New York-style Mouthy Fascist. Which is just the same as a Neo-Confederate South Racist Fuckhead, but different.
max
[‘The reality show about a pro wrestling performer aspect is the only unique bit.’]
Tokyokie
Excuse me, but is it possible for someone to both have narcissistic personality disorder AND be sociopathic? The other day in here, I joked that “Bereft of All Human Virtues Donald” didn’t have quite the pithiness of Trump’s degrading nicknames. But seriously, can somebody name me one quality about Trump that is even remotely likable? (And sorry, his being rich doesn’t count. The same could be said of Al Capone, and at least he wasn’t the beneficiary of a nine-figure inheritance.) I could understand those who liked George W. Bush because he seemed like a guy you’d want to have a beer with (although I’ve long contended his congeniality was entirely superficial and that before you finished that beer, you’d realize that he considered you a peasant and treated you accordingly). But Trump? Who would want to spend time around somebody who talks about nothing but his imagined greatness and treats everybody else like shit?
hitchhiker
My take about him promoting capable women was that he hired them because he figured out they’d do a lot more work out of gratitude for the opportunity. Also I’m guessing that in the construction/development business the men he would have hired otherwise would be too alpha to take his bullshit for long.
I’m saying, from his pov it wasn’t about anything having to do with recognizing equality as an issue — it was about him seeing a way to capitalize on what was a crappy work opportunity situation for women. That they put up with his crude nonsense is just evidence of how crappy it was.
Kropadope
@SFAW:
Well, manufacturing isn’t the only sector of the economy. Also, if we’re going to have a resurgence in manufacturing, the current agreed upon approach; a race to the bottom with respect to labor costs; is not a race we can win.
I think there are two things we can do that are vitally important to improving our outlook for the future. The first is major investments in infrastructure. I’m not just talking repairing what’s broken, either, but investments with the potential to be transformative. I’m talking high-speed rail and and improved energy grids/generation and cheaper, faster internet access and improvements to healthcare information technology and many, many other things. These infrastructure jobs by definition can’t be outsourced and would employ people with experience in many fields, including manufacturing. Furthermore, they make the U.S. a more attractive place to do business, providing companies with reliable tools to bring down costs and speed up throughput.
The next thing we need is an education system that doesn’t simply give up on people when they’re 18. If a person is willing and ready to learn a new skill, that opportunity should be there for them. I don’t just mean college either; trade schools, certificate programs, internships, and career-development coaching could improve the marketability and earning potential of millions of Americans.
What we don’t need is the looming potential turn toward xenophobia. A huge portion of the doctors that our country produces are foreign-born and we should want to both attract and retain those people. Even if we created massive opportunities for them develop new businesses and amazing new technologies, they likely won’t be able to capitalize on that or even want to stay here if there is a new era of explicitly sanctioned cultural bigotry. Our cultural ideals attract people, but we often fail to live up to them.
In the end, we’ll never beat China in the making cheap shit with no labor standards race. Simply trying has set us back decades. What America needs are well-trained people who will make the best products, durable and affordable (not cheap).
@Keith G: Damn right the labor/capital relation needs to change. We need more people to realize the importance of unions and a cultural principle of people not simply accepting what employers offer, like an employee’s value is immutable and not dependent on their skill or work ethic. I’m actually encouraged by what I’m starting to see in the food service sector with “fight for 15.”
scav
@Brachiator: and you missed a bit, assuming it’s true: A babe with a brain that he can dominate. He’ll accept them if they’re lower in the job hierarchy (where he has money power over them) and where he has a permanent parental authority over them, but he doesn’t seem to deal well with them if they don’t submit to him in all things. And they are never judged solely on their brains, they’ve got to bring the bodies front and center, ready again for some form of submission, aka “wear this”, “smile”, “answer to whatever I call you.” etc.
Adam L Silverman
@Tokyokie: Anybody who thought that being a hanger on was going to lead to them getting a windfall somehow. Whether that was a better job or an investment opportunity or a large gift or free publicity.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
I’m not a psychologist, and I didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I’ll just chalk the misogynist sexist POS running for President up as a misogynist sexist POS running for President and leave it at that.
WaterGirl
@scav: What a total fucking pig. Sorry for being so crude, but Trump is one disgusting human being, and anyone who would vote for him is basically signing off on Trump’s treatment of women.
SiubhanDuinne
@trollhattan:
I heard it this morning and reacted exactly the same way. Hoping for an efgoldman sighting at some point so I can ask him about her. I thought she was charming and quick and funny. Don’t know anything about her policies or politics, except for the D after her name. But my overall sense was that she is definitely an up-and-comer in the party and may be ready for higher/national office in another cycle or so.
Redshift
I disagree, I think they are separately important points that both need to be covered. He’s a sociopath who’s an asshole to everyone and uses them, but while he’s an asshole to men, he’s an asshole to women in ways that build on and reinforce the ways our society can often be bad for women. That’s important, and writing about it isn’t “missing the point.”
WaterGirl
@Redshift: Yes to everything you wrote.
Prescott Cactus
@Kropadope:
After trying for ten months to reach a fair contract, nearly 40,000 Verizon workers (represented by CWA and IBEW) from Massachusetts to Virginia went on strike at 6 a.m. Visit this for more information.
The CWA got a tip that Verizon had expanded their off shoring of help desk work to the Philippines. Turns out Verizon is offshoring work is far beyond what has previously been reported and what the company publicly has claimed. The CWA delegation seeking a meeting with Verizon management was confronted by armed Verizon security and a SWAT team carry automatic weapons.
Can you hear me now ?
Tokyokie
@Adam L Silverman: In other words, the saps who play the lottery.
Kropadope
@efgoldman: That’s sad. Please elaborate.
@Prescott Cactus: I’ve seen Verizon employees picketing all over the region and I’m proud of them standing up. I didn’t know about the SWAT teams, though, that’s just stunning.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Iowa Old Lady: J is upset about what’s going on there, but she’s only seeing the Berniebot reporting. “Clinton’s people are stealing the election!!1” (sigh). Thanks for the link.
Booman says people should stop yelling for Bernie to quit. I haven’t been doing that – yet – but I’m not seeing the benefit of having conspiracy nuts at conventions and gatherings like this destroying the ability conduct party business in a sensible manner.
Cheers,
Scott.
Prescott Cactus
@trollhattan:
I caught the first part of her performance and I’d agree. Finding out about pension cuts for workers and high risking investing turns that train around.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
Well, no. What I said was that our best days (vis-a-vis the Economy) our behind us. That does not mean there can’t/won’t be prosperity in the future.
Be that as it may: it will take a lot more intestinal fortitude than has recently (i.e., in the past 36 years, shall we say?) been exhibited to get the country to a place where poor whites no longer feel the need to blame Harvey Gantt for every job they didn’t get.
Splitting Image
Only if you worry about him winning. Looking at it from the other side, if you were planning to elect the first woman President, could you find a better opponent for her to run against than Donald Trump?
Hugh Hefner is too old, and he has more redeeming characteristics anyway. Bobby Riggs has passed on.
Trump is the living embodiment of the straw male chauvinist that critics of feminism routinely assure us doesn’t exist.
eemom
@Redshift:
This, exactly. As I’ve said before, all sexists are assholes, but not all assholes are sexist.
Trump wouldn’t ask a man to try on a bikini.
Prescott Cactus
@Kropadope: Stunning indeed
The Verizon security team then called in a SWAT team, who surrounded the car, bearing automatic weapons. One police officer with his face covered in a balaclava pounded on the van window with his automatic rifle, demanding that the labor representatives leave the vehicle.
The union representatives, including CWA staff, a representative of UNI (global labor federation) and representatives of KMU (a Filipino union), were allowed to leave without further issue, as they had done nothing illegal and the police had no cause to detain them.
Having a union card in your pocket doesn’t normally get you surrounded by automatic weapons. OK, maybe Jimmy Hoffa, but normally. . .
Major Major Major Major
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Team Bernie’s caucus shenanigans in Nevada are reprehensible.
I tried pointing that out to a few of them, but all of a sudden when their team is winning they don’t see ethical issues with “win at all costs.” (When Hillary does the much more nefarious “win by getting more votes” though they rightly cry bloody murder.)
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Kropadope:
I’m a big fan of infrastructure projects, but let’s not get carried away. Lots of US infrastructure projects will result in things being manufactured overseas with a lot of the “low tech grunt work” being done by US workers.
Big Bertha is from Japan
WMATA’s rolling stock is from Italy and Spain
Etc.
Cheers,
Scott.
bystander
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Halperin was on Moanin’ Joe a couple of weeks ago and he posited that if California is in play in November Trump could prevail. Even Scarborough told him he was dreaming.
D58826
@jl: Well I’m holding out for the candidate that promises more Fridays and fewer Mondays.
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@cleek: NO! Bad Cleek! Bad!
SFAW
@Kropadope:
Never said it was. However, a “robust manufacturing economy” is probably the simplest (figuratively speaking) way to return wealth to the workers in this country.
No, I really don’t want to get into a discussion about how to get there, nor whether the “makers” (who are actually takers, but the MSM is to stupid to figure that out) will pull every fucking spare nickel out, to enrich themselves, and so on and so forth. That’s a topic for another day.
But, in case you haven’t noticed. China in longer making only “cheap shit.” It was obvious, 30 years ago, that it was coming.
Major Major Major Major
@SFAW: Alright, so I misread.
Yeah, we aren’t gonna be A-#1 America Fuck Yeah economy again (not that we ever particularly were for the non-white-male crowd), but such is life. We need stimulus and way bigger social programs. For the rust belt and coal regions, we need way more. This is the part that I see missing from most proposals. On the one hand, you’ve got forward-looking stuff for green energy money, rebuilding the grid/train infrastructure as above, which is well and good but West Virginians just aren’t going to wake up one day and find they’ve got new jobs at the wind generator plant; the necessary transfer payments are always missing from technocratic/internationalist proposals, or else fail to materialize in practice. Which is a political failure, to be sure; most of these aren’t that cold-hearted.
On the other hand you’ve got “let’s put Americans back to work”, protectionist/isolationist policies to reshore manufacturing, a reliance on ‘dignity of work’ transfer payments like post-reform welfare and retraining assistance that sort of misses the boat as well. Sometimes, but not always, there’s get-your-hands-dirty stimulus spending wrapped up here too.
These seem to be the packages they come in, warts and all. I prefer the former. Shrug. Not gonna write an essay.
pat
@cleek:
That was AWESOME!! Was that for real? I lol’d.
jl
Looks like a proposed invasion of Lithuania will be agenda for the general election campaign? Good news for Republicans?
Lithuanian Eatery Puts Up Poster Of Trump-Putin Kiss
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/putin-trump-kiss-poster
Or maybe Trump will just ban piroshki?
Edit: wait, is piroshki Lithuanian? Not sure. But it will sound good, so who cares? Ban ’em.
WaterGirl
@efgoldman:
They tried to do this to us in Illinois. The state made a contract with all their workers and they shouldn’t just get to say “sorry, we’re unilaterally changing all the rules, everything you based most of your big life decisions on”. Fuckers.
I believe it’s unethical and immoral. Participating in that or promoting that is dead wrong, and in my opinion, completely disqualifying for holding higher office, or any public office. Sorry to hear that she’s quick and charming; I’d rather save those traits for the good guys.
Redshift
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I just got back from our congressional district convention here in NoVa, and it was all unity talk from both sides. Nobody called for Bernie to drop out (though prominent Hillary supporters didn’t shy away from saying they believe she’ll be the nominee), and prominent Bernie supporters said they intend to win as many delegates as possible, but they’ll be behind the nominee.
The only signs of discord were when a candidate for national delegate for Hillary sent an email to everyone on both sides yesterday saying she hoped she could represent all points of view if elected, and s Bernie supporter did a reply-all about how Bernie is the best candidate against Trump and Hillary is probably going to be indicted. Amazingly, no one else replied-all to that!
And then there was the car I parked next to, which in addition to the Bernie sticker and a couple of liberal causes, had a “dofor blame me, I voted for Ron Paul,” an InfoWars sticker, and a 9/11 truther sticker. (In case anyone was looking for confirmation that some of the more extreme Bernie people are indeed Paulites.)
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@efgoldman: Good. Manufacturing in the US is good, even if it’s “final assembly” stuff to enable a needed sticker.
Of course, manufacturing in the US by US companies with US owners is often better. (Keeping the profits at home, management being better attuned to local issues and needs, etc.)
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
D58826
@WaterGirl: Funny how a bond holders contract is a sacred engraved in stone document. Break it and the FSM will strike you dead. A contract with workers, public or private, is just something that the courts/politicians might pay attention to on any day that doesn’t end in a ‘y’
debbie
@efgoldman:
We got rid of three of those in my town. A great feeling and I hope only the beginning.
Mike J
WaterGirl
@Mike J: What is ASL?
D58826
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: The problem with
is much of the real long term value added stuff still gets done in China or Japan. The R@D, the design, the robotics, the long term R@D projects that may or may not become the next generation of DVD or Iphone are just as important, if not more so, than the final assembly.
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@D58826: That reminds of a great line: “How many angels can fit on your head?”
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Redshift: Thanks for the heartening report! Having a few true believers inside the tent isn’t a problem – in fact it’s good. It’s when they are disruptive in extremis that it’s a problem.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike J
@WaterGirl: American sign language. Berners blocked the view of the interpreter and refused to move so that people could see him.
jl
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Are you saying that working on a tunnel job using a Big Bertha type machine is ‘grunt work’?
@efgoldman:
Thanks for examples of how free trade does not mean that the ‘expensive’ country does not have to lose mass quantities of good jobs, or that nothing will be produced there. The whole point of comparative advantage theory is to explain why absolutely more expensive countries, in terms of capital and labor, can do beneficial trade with absolutely cheaper countries without running huge trade deficits that devastate an economy.
I think there is good evidence that the devastation in US manufacturing, without much recovery at all through two recoveries is mostly a financial phenomenon. The lesson of the 1997-8 Asian financial crisis, and reinforced by the 2007-8 world financial panic and recession, is that countries that can ever possibly face a foreign capital outflow crisis or a financial markets panic need to stockpile massive shitloads of dollars. All other factors be damned. And all other factors includes the potential welfare of their own people.
Also, people forget that attacks on labor is not just a US thing. Suppression of labor rights and returns to labor is worldwide. When a poorer country’s labor sector gets work trading with a richer country, the labor sector in the poorer country is the one that gets most of the reward (edit: at least according to the standard theory of international trade), and as it gets richer, that higher consumer income should drive development in the poor country (yes, that is how the theory said it is supposed to work, regardless of diatribes by ignorant people like Matt Yglesias about how crummy living standards for labor in poor countries is really for their own benefit, if you just think about enough in a confused sort of way).. Is that happening? Ask the slave labor fishermen on boats off of Vietnam and Cambodia, maybe.
With some distressing temporary exceptions (like initial wave of Japanese auto imports), that is how it did work for the US until late 1990s and the Asian financial crisis.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@D58826: Exactly. But if the choice is – buy Italian or Spanish rail cars that come over fully assembled and tested; or buy Italian or Spanish rail car shells and do final assembly and testing in the US to get a “Made in USA” sticker, then the 2nd is better. But having a fully USA rail car is better still.
Presumably if the US spent enough on public transit an HSR and SUPERTRAINS and the rest, then there would be enough of an incentive for Northrop-Grumman and others to get back in the business.
Cheers,
Scott.
D58826
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Even better would be build them here and sell them in Spain as well as Pennsylvania. Expand the market.
Frank Wilhoit
So, Mr. Cole, how is it that you can get away with pointing out [the obvious and necessary truth] that a bully doesn’t care who his targets are, but no one else can get away with it?
How is it that the respondents to this post, including your firmest supporters, are not turning on you; not insisting that it is, after all, all and only about the unique victimhood of women; not rejecting, with the utmost bitterness, the notion of generalizing to other classes of victims?
What sorcery do you possess, that permits you to speak the truth without being immediately set upon and torn flesh from bone?
I’ll take half a pound of whatever it is. Does it need to be shipped in lead?
D58826
Like this from a tweet: If we really did run government like a business, HR would have tossed Trumps resume in the circular file on the first read thru.
Amir Khalid
@Mike J:
What do Bernfeelers get out of being dicks at these meetings?
D58826
Poor Zimmy, can’t get a break Anywhaere
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/second-online-auction-for-george-zimmerman%e2%80%99s-gun-deleted/ar-BBt31uQ?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp
WaterGirl
@Mike J: Right, I knew that. Thanks, I just didn’t think of it in this context. I never would have expected Bernie people to act like dicks.
J R in WV
@John Cole:
Well, Yeah! That’s at least part of why blogging is so fun, and the snark is also part of it.
The kittehs are the other bigger part!
O! And the friends…. the people you help out with advice and contact, etc.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@jl:
No. I’m saying a couple of things (without being fully explicit about it before):
1) Big Bertha cost $80M. It’s a complex, expensive machine that was designed and manufactured in Japan (with final assembly in Seattle). That $80M could have been spent in the US with a company like Robbins (I don’t know why Hitachi won the contract).
2) The project in Seattle to dig the tunnel was estimated to cost $2B (according to the link above). A lot of that is materials (steel, concrete, etc.) and a lot of that is labor (skilled and unskilled). But, AFAIK, relatively little of it is what could be called “manufacturing”. Making Big Bertha certainly would be classified as “manufacturing”.
Lots of people call construction work “grunt work”. It requires skill and smarts but it’s not what people usually think of when they think of “high tech” or “21st Century Economy” or similar buzz-words. (Even though modern construction does, in fact, use high tech materials and processes to create stronger and better structures.) Yes, they’re jobs that can’t be “outsourced” in some meanings of the word, but it’s certainly possible that foreign companies and foreign workers can do the work (look at Dubai). What keeps that from happening in the US is our laws and regulations – not some inherent property of infrastructure projects.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
eemom
@Frank Wilhoit:
Uh, I think Redshift called him on what might loosely be called “that issue”, stripped of the bitter caricature of your assholish comment; and I seconded.
That said, I am kind of glad little Suzy didn’t show up to prattle about “patriarchy.” Moronic extremism on both sides of just about any issue is a delightful feature of this blog.
D58826
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
That’s true but as a programmer that has trouble resetting a circuit breaker, I would not want to work in a structure built with my level of mechanical skills. Ben Carson may have magical hands as a surgeon but without the magical hands of the electricians, plumbers, etc who built the hospital he would be just another guy from the hood.
D58826
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
We used to do that. Much of Washington was built with ‘imported’ labor, only in those days they were called slaves. The term might still apply to Dubai as well from what I’ve read
Mike J
@Amir Khalid:
No idea and I’ve seen it at precinct caucuses, Lege district caucuses, and lege district monthly meetings. No violence at the ones I’ve been at (yet), but attempts to shout down all disagreement, attempts to have the votes of people not present counted (without an absentee ballot), attempts to not count actual absentee ballots, ridiculous resolutions complaining about DSW rigging the process with superDs, etc, etc.
Joel
@Chyron HR: if you’re going with one nickname, it has to be Freddy the Bore, which is pithy and accurate. I vaguely remember Tim — don’t recall his handle or his pederasty though.
jl
@jl:
Sorry for double negative problems. Meant to type:
Thanks for examples of how free trade does not mean that the ‘expensive’ country MUST lose mass quantities of good jobs, or that nothing will be produced there.
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Thanks for clarification. Not sure what you mean by “What keeps that from happening in the US is our laws and regulations – not some inherent property of infrastructure projects.” What is so special about US laws and regulations as a prime mover of US trade deficit? Also, after the initial painful adjustment due to initial influx of Japanese autos to US, I don’t think the US, labor unions included, freak out about imports from Japan and Europe (or do they? Let me know if they do). Those countries don’t pose a threat to permanently wipe out big hunks and chunks of US manufacturing, do they? Do people freak out when they see windpower windmills manufactured in Netherlands or Denmark, as opposed to US, do they? (if someone does do let me know). Or competition between Ford and foreign automakers worldwide?
D58826
To borrow a phrase from Uncle Joe B. this could be a BFD
And it sounds like it is a major change that would be easier to implement and at less risk to the economy than Bernie’s idea of breaking up the big banks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-federal-reserve-plan_us_57363ac4e4b08f96c1833ad3
WaterGirl
@Mike J: Bernie should be reeling his people in. Barack Obama didn’t tolerate any of that kind of thing in 2007/2008. I think I’ve said before that when I went to Iowa before the caucuses, the first thing they told us was no blogging while we were there, not even posting on blogs as people involved in the campaign, nothing. We were plain up told that we were Barack’s representatives and people would be judging him based on what we did. That’s the way to do it.
Adding: Bernie Fail. So disappointing.
cleek
@Amir Khalid:
attention. lots of ego-satisfying attention.
just like Sanders himself, it’s not enough to just be Pure, you have to be witnessed being Pure. it’s really the most important thing. more important than actually being Pure, when you get right down to it.
Iowa Old Lady
@cleek: And that lovely feeling of righteousness.
Mike J
@D58826: That doesn’t sound like as much fun. Do we really need planning and foresight dealing with a 20 trillion dollar economy? Let’s just do what makes us feel superior.
Ruckus
@Kay (not the front-pager):
They must know, at least in the deep, dark, back recesses of their tiny little minds that they are losing with drumpf and figure to lose badly. So they are making some very asinine suggestions that they know no one will ever do. Kasich for Clinton’s VP? She would laugh so loud and long at that suggestion that you could hear it 3 states away. Two if you were standing in a bank vault.
Amir Khalid
@Mike J:
I’m also wondering why this sort of thing isn’t reported in the media.
D58826
@Mike J: At this stage I’m really wondering how many of these folks are just trolls, Paulites, and GOpers trying to ratf**k the process. While Bernie certainly should try to reel this in where he can, some of it might just be beyond his control. Of course the longer he talks about a contested convention and flipping super delegates, the easier it is for the trolls to make a splash in the media. They may not be as ‘colorful’ as a Trump rally but they are more exciting than Hillary’s plan Jane small gatherings.
D58826
@Mike J: And build the wall HIGHER :-)
jl
@D58826: Good for Clinton for supporting overhaul of Fed operations.To be fair to Sanders, that is part of his reform package too, and one that Larry Summers said was a good idea. Sanders has it mixed in with more questionable proposals, like Congressional ‘audit’ of the Fed (whatever that is supposed to mean).
I think there is an historical reason for the odd mix of public and private decision making. Originally the Fed was supposed to stabilize the money markets with private, not public, debt instruments (which means when the Fed did start taking private notes during most recent financial panic, it was actually partly returning to the way things were originally designed, not departing from it, as some charged). Anyway, WWI seriously knocked the original plan off course, and WWII completely over turned it. Regional Fed banks dealing in private debt instruments, was supposed to be main tool, not the market in US treasury notes and bonds. So, more private input into decision making probably made sense. Someone would have to evaluate the value and reliability of the private debt that was bought and sold.
Mike J
@Amir Khalid:
I’m happy to keep it quiet. Active Democrats know what’s going on, and I don’t see how yet another “Dems in disarray” story helps us. Not to mention the Hillary bashing that the media would feel required to include for “balance.”
Local media did talk to the chair of our LD the day after caucus, and happily the whole story got cut down to “it’s unpleasant to watch the sausage getting made, and all of our people on both sides are passionate.”
Ruckus
@max:
Well maybe not really. If what you mean is that he always comes out smelling good to him then yes.
D58826
maybe Bernie is starting to reel it in a bit “
In answer to a support at a rally.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sanders-calls-for-political-movement-says-hes-not-a-savior/ar-BBt2KA8?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
Suzanne
@eemom: PATRIARCHY.
GFY.
Mike J
WaterGirl
@eemom: Wow, second thread in a row where people are talking trash about other commenters when the other commenters are not even on the thread. Did someone put something in the water at BJ?
And by commenters, I mean commenters. Trolls, on the other hand, are always fair game.
WaterGirl
@Mike J: I”m not sure it gets much closer than that.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: Nothing’s in the water. Her mind is just still in high school.
jl
@D58826: That is a variation of a standard section of his standard stump speech.
eemom
@WaterGirl:
That’s been done to me plenty of times, including by the party I referred to.
@Suzanne:
back atcha, snookums. As always.
villiageidiocy
@SFAW: Yes, we do.
D58826
@jl: Ah I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt
bemused
This is what immediately jumped out when I read Trump calling Ms Brewer Lane stunning. He said “isn’t it” not “isn’t she”. Women and everyone else are its to him.
D58826
@Mike J:
sure about those numbers?
real clear politics up thru WV
(2,382 Needed to Win) – 4763 2240 1473 – –
Delegates Won – 4051 (clinton)1716 (sanders)1433
Superdelegates – (712) (clinton)524 (sanders)40
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_delegate_count.html
WaterGirl
@eemom: Glad I wasn’t here to see it, then. It always makes me uncomfortable. It’s way too easy to picture how I would feel if I was reading along in some random thread and came across a reference to how awful WaterGirl is, and someone else chimed in to agree!
Mike J
@WaterGirl:
The funny thing is that after the county level caucuses, it looked as Sanders would pick up two delegates. Hillary won the precinct caucus, lost at county level, and has now won at the state level, putting the count where it should have been to begin with.
jl
@D58826: This variation might indicate Sandars is beginning to understand that he needs to talk his more fanatical supporters down off the ledge. He has been acknowledging in his stumpers that his nomination is an increasing long shot and ‘very steep hill’ to climb. Some of them may need some explaining from him about how revolutionists do not quit if they don’t get everything they want the first try. The BernieBros at Salon probably will call him a sell out or just pout no matter how much he explains, though.
And, I am assuming that Sanders will follow-through on his promise to keep on with his revolution and do everything he can to promote a big Dem win in November. It would be in his interest to do so no matter who is the nominee, but can’t tell whether he is a fool or not until crunch time comes.
D58826
They are a collective piece of work aren’t they.
gwangung
@jl: Irritating, because there’s no sense that some of these yo-yos are dedicated to the cause. It’s either now or never….which I don’t believe is the case.
Suzanne
@jl: He’s been needing to talk them off the ledge for months now. I am disappointed by how many of them seem to essentially be anarchists, not genuine socialists. The idea that Trump is the next-best option to Sanders only makes sense if you want to Blow Shit Up and don’t really know or care to rebuild something better.
Of course, it is hard to tell how many people truly feel this way, or if it’s just a few loudmouths.
WaterGirl
OT, but it’s a slow day so I hope you don’t mind if I ask a kitty question.
My boy kitty, Mr. Bear has a chronic UTI condition which they diagnosed in his first year. They wanted to put him on special food but I lobbied for getting one month to see if I could get try things like wet food, smaller meals more often, adding water to his food, etc. All that stuff worked, and he gets too frequent UTi infections but we haven’t seen any crystals since then.
Fast forward 4 years, and he has an infection that 2 antibiotic shots couldn’t kick, and now he has TONS of crystals in his urine and they said they are the kind that of crystals that can form stones. So now we’re back at prescription food time, which I wanted to avoid so I could avoid the complication of feeding two sibling kitties different food. Oh well, it seems like it’s time.
I meet with the vet on Tuesday. I see that there seem to be 3 different brands of prescription foods – Hills, Purina, and Royal Canin. Does anybody have experience with any of these? We sold Hills when I worked at the vet school, but I have heard lots of bad things about Hills going downhill since then. I did some googling and people talked about skin conditions and dull coats with Hills. They also talked about funny smelling food from either Royal Canin or Purina – there was so much info my brain started to blur.
I think Anne Laurie may have a kitty on something like this? I know we have talked about it in the past, but I didn’t retain most of the info because we weren’t going down that road yet, but here we are. All suggestions and information will be greatly appreciated!
P.S. I did switch to corn litter shortly before this infection from hell started, and I find myself wondering if that could be related?
jl
@Suzanne: I’ve read there were far higher proportions of Obama and Clinton dead-enders in 2008 and most of them came around, so I think the vast majority of the Sanders die-hards will vote for Clinton in November, if Sanders does what he says he will do.
And I tend more towards Sanders than Clinton, but don’t think either are great candidates, and am generally cynical about politicians. But sadly the rainbow unicorn gumdrop fart candidate of my dreams is not running this year, and I have to make the best choice. A few loud mouth bozos belong to the school that says if I can’t get exactly what I want, make a disaster and hope my dreams rise out of the ashes, which I think is irresponsible and stupid.
eemom
@WaterGirl:
Well, to be fair, I don’t think it happens to everyone….generally only to those of proven willingness to play the asshole card themselves. I have at least a deck to my credit. : )
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: @eemom: I swear to god I will turn this car around!
pat
@WaterGirl:
Is there a problem if they both get the same food? I assume the littermate is female.
mike in dc
Narcissistic Personality Disorder has different varieties. I’d lean towards malignant narcissism for Trump. Although narcissistic grandiosity also sounds about right.
ThresherK
@Major Major Major Major: Yes, by all means. Jon Benjamin I got to know as Coach McGuirk, heavy-drinking redheaded Irishman. So, dolt that I am, I was surprised to learn that Benjamin was Jewish.
Also, “Melissa” (Melissa Bardin Garsky) is a regular on Bob’s Burgers in a couple of recurring roles. And Benjamin and Garsky were The Devil and “Lucy the Daughter of the Devil”.
/comedy nerding
WaterGirl
@pat: From what little I understand, prescription food is VERY EXPENSIVE and it also doesn’t have a lot of the usual stuff that would be good for cats. So for both those reasons, I don’t think I would feed them both the prescription food.
Apparently some boy kitties can be prone to this sort of UTI thing, and the girl kitty doesn’t have this issue at all.
Frank Wilhoit
@eemom: Humor don’t type, does it. Oh well.
My point, if I had one, was that John Cole has here made a correct and important point with respect to Trump’s attitude towards women versus his attitude towards other classes of victims.
However, there are other contexts in which anyone making the same point, equally correct, equally important, would be shouted down — even in such a comparatively enlightened forum as this.
Thinking that a bully cares which victim (or class of victims) is a crucial failure of analysis. As it now seems to be Bully Season, we cannot afford such failures. Until you understand a thing, you cannot fight it.
So, kudos to John Cole — and to this community for allowing him (to my pleased surprise) to articulate this very important point.
Tom Q
@D58826: I’m completely convinced these are Paulites causing the disruptions at the caucuses and conventions — but that doesn’t mean they’re not also Sanders supporters. When Rand Paul’s campaign collapsed so early, it left these guys adrift, and a good number of them glommed on to Sanders as the best available “burn it all down” candidate.
All those thinking it’s so wonderful to have primary & caucus voting open…be aware you’re allowing for people like this to become part of the selection process, even though their investment in the success of the party as a whole is nil.
cleek
@WaterGirl:
i feed our cats purina pro because they just don’t like royal canin – they are ridiculously picky. never had any problems with it.
never tried hills.
never had to try prescription food before. but one of our girls was getting UTIs. we finally figured out that she was just not drinking enough water and that she really liked drinking out of bathroom faucets. so now we let her do that as much as she wants. utis gone.
WaterGirl
@cleek: Yay for no UTIs! Just to be clear, your girl is on the Purina prescription food AND getting to drink out of the bathroom faucets? It’s not just drinking out of the faucets that helped?
chopper
@Frank Wilhoit:
your post does have a certain “spiteful MRA” ring to it, just to let you know.
cleek
@WaterGirl:
sorry, just purina “pro”, not prescription.
but we’re 99% sure it was the extra water that cleared up the UTIs.
jefft
@D58826: “I would not lead you into the promised land even if I knew the path
If you are willing to be lead in by me, you will let the next damn fool lead you right back out” – Gene Debs
WaterGirl
@cleek: okay, thanks. At this point the crystals are so bad that they are worried, so I will have to do something prescription, at least for awhile. Will know more after I talk with the vet on wednesday.
Miss Bianca
@Mike J: That was certainly my experience at the state assembly. Our county committee chairman said he’d never seen anything like it, and he’s been going to conventions and assemblies for years. Our local caucuses, I hasten to point out, were remarkably civil by comparison, altho’ there was still a bit of regurgitation of right-wing talking points on how Hillary is not to be trusted because Emails and the Clinton Foundation (really?), but it didn’t last long – probably because there was a substantial number of Clinton supporters in the mix. And we’re a small county – we sort of have to get along, because we’ll all be seeing each other regularly.
Ivan X
@Redshift: How much better could you have said this? None more better.
chopper
@Ivan X:
yep. trump may treat everyone based on whether or not they are useful to him, but in his mind at least men are capable of earning his respect. women are nothing more than sex objects. a woman could do everything right in his eyes and he’ll still judge her primarily by her looks.
WaterGirl
@chopper: I agree with you. But I suspect it’s more than that. I think that average or unattractive women probably don’t exist in Trump’s world. I bet women have to clear a pretty high bar looks-wise before they even get a shot at any role in Trump’s world at all.
Frank Wilhoit
@chopper: Eye of the beholder. My point is, don’t try telling me, oh, don’t worry, the big bad bully’s picking on somebody else right now. That doesn’t make me — or anyone — safe.
Parenthetically, it is explosively obvious that Trump respects no one, in any context. He has some ability to pick his fights — not enough, and that is a weakness we must exploit. But the mere fact that he can sometimes muster enough situational awareness to figure out that this or that counterparty is able to punch back does not add up to “respect”. “Only I”, says he. (This is Rick Perlstein’s point — Google “Trump Unmasked”, I can’t remember where I saw it.)
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Suzanne: I’m struggling to wrap my head around how we can acknowledge the overt sexism on display (both by Trump and by the N-billion other examples across the board of our society) and somehow do so without also acknowledging the Patriarchy? How is that even possible? Or why bringing up the former is ok, but not the latter. That’s like saying we can talk about the widespread structural racism of our country but please nobody use the phrase “White Supremacy.” But maybe I’m missing something.
The Lodger
@WaterGirl: Our boy cat got a serious case of kidney stones about two years ago and we put him on Royal Canin Urinary SO. It’s weird-smelling stuff, but we’ve gotten used to it. Our other cat has always insisted on eating his food, so we feed it to both of them and there don’t seem to be any ill effects other than the expense.
WaterGirl
@The Lodger: Thanks for sharing your experience!
chopper
@Frank Wilhoit:
nobody’s saying that. they’re saying he’s an asshole, but he’s an even bigger asshole to women because he doesn’t consider women to be people like he does men. that matters and don’t fucking downplay it. as someone said above he wouldn’t ask a dude to change into swimwear for his amusement.
Applejinx
@D58826: Toldja ;)
I’ve been saying for months that it is not personal for Bernie (no comment on Jane! Everybody’s gotta have a spark-plug). He wants progressives to get involved in mainstream establishment politics. I think he’s got some inkling of how hard it is to manage the more extreme Bernie-Or-Busters, and he IS good enough at working with others that he knows he can’t just smack ’em down, he has to bring them around so they become productive to the cause (which is NOT him and never has been).
People keep saying they don’t know what the hell the BorBs are thinking but it’s very simple. I think a lot of these ‘baffled’ people are in denial about things like the radical increases in wealth inequality, the abuses of power. Around here I can’t talk about Hillary’s indirect supporters buying and controlling things like the Onion and Twitter, but if I went on Facebook I’d have people who immediately accept that BUT in turn, they cannot conceive of the idea that those people could be after many of the same goals we share.
Power politics and ‘break the Republicans before they get us all fucking killed’, with a bunch of debatable details (I think I’m seeing a pro-fracking slant to mainstream Dems, but it’s not ‘let’s destroy our country’, it’s ‘American interests can be served by harnessing this and sending it overseas to wreck OTHER countries’. We don’t make anything, but we’re exporting fracking)
Lastly, Trump is weird. I keep coming back to that Apprentice season (didn’t watch it but saw the denoument on YT) where he gave Joan Rivers the grand prize, over a smart, devious, pretty and ruthless young poker (dammit, moderation) player lady. There’s no way he wanted to screw Joan. In other circumstances he’d have been full of abuse for her: but she was being an all-out ball-breaker bitch on the other lady. Joan had known to be friendly to Ivanka (smart call there) and this is how she demolished the younger, prettier woman:
That, apparently, is Donald Trump’s image of a winning woman. Given that he has no reason to give a shit about anyone else’s opinion on his own show, I think you can fault him for narcissism and being an empty blowhard, but not for trying to make women into airheads. Dude got offered a ‘pretty girl’ openly trying to send out ‘I’m a girl for you to protect’ signals, and sided with the 75-year-old pirahna who was openly confrontational but made a point of running on raw willpower and intent.
If Carly Fiorina didn’t fail everything I daresay Trump would quite like her. You win with him not by bootlicking but by raw power, intelligence and influence. Kind of like NOT ANY OF HIS SUPPORTERS, who have none of those things.
Maybe he will endorse Clinton :D she’s the kind of woman he respects in a peculiar way. He’s obliged to fight her now, but I suspect he has a respect.
chopper
I’m sure he tried to get in the young lady’s pants, and when she said ‘no way’ he turned hard on her and made her pay. nothing I can imagine would piss that guy off more than being turned down by a woman.
No One You Know
@Brachiator: Also, he “made” that.