Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Infrastructure week. at last.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

T R E 4 5 O N

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

In my day, never was longer.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Sunday Open Thread: Texas Flooding

Sunday Open Thread: Texas Flooding

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Here is live coverage of the flood: Texas Flooding

I was looking for a local live feed and two of the news stations I checked out were actually flooded themselves.

Stay safe out there!

What’s going on in your world today? I’m off to mow the lawn. Did I mention I purchased a battery mower this summer? Love it.

Open thread

Reader Interactions

186Comments

  1. 1.

    Trentrunner

    NWS is forecasting 22″ of rain for Houston in the next 48 hours.

    Houston typically gets 46″ of rain. IN A YEAR.

    Updated: NHC now says 50″ expected through Wednesday.

  2. 2.

    Geoduck

    Since lawn mowers were mentioned.. if you don’t have too big of a yard, I recommend getting a manual push-mower. They are a lot less noisy and smelly, and you get more exercise using them.

  3. 3.

    trollhattan

    re. top photo, who approved building mcmansions that near the shoreline? I thought the rich were supposed to be smarter than us regular folk.

    Stay safe, Texas.

  4. 4.

    TaMara (HFG)

    @Geoduck: I actually sold mine and bought the electric. I had to choose between being able to keep my lawn at 4 inches tall or using the reel mower – which even the best ones – 2 inches is the max they can cut at. Being able to use less water won out. But I loved my reel mower, quiet, easy to use and great exercise. The battery operated one was a good compromise I felt.

  6. 6.

    Amaranthine RBG

    I’m sure Sen. Cruz will call for no federal funds to be sent to Texas.

    Bootstraps, people, bootstraps.

  7. 7.

    TaMara (HFG)

    @Trentrunner: Sounds like the Mayor is getting a lot of flak for not issuing a mandatory evacuation. I have no idea of the time frame around all of this – but just how would you do that without stranding a bunch of people on the roads in the middle of all this?

  8. 8.

    ruemara

    I am lying on the sofa, eating crackers before I head out for Zumba. Giving my friend a workout & lunch away from her two little disease vectors. Then it’s taping voiceover for the work film, discussing reshoots with that actor & booking recording space for my podcast. Another restful weekend.

  9. 9.

    Trentrunner

    @TaMara (HFG): The mayor answered that question this morning: You simply cannot evacuate 6-7 million people. Period. And since flooded roadways are certain cause of death, you definitely can’t call for evacuations in this situation.

    That was his answer anyway.

  10. 10.

    Trentrunner

    NWS tweet, 8:44 this morning:

    This event is unprecedented & all impacts are unknown & beyond anything experienced. Follow orders from officials to ensure safety. #Harvey

  11. 11.

    Schlemazel

    I have several new candidates for the blade this morning. CBS guy, standing on a bridge talking about how horrible it is & how they didn’t know how they were going to get out since the roads on both sides were totally blocked. They they pan back & you can see several cars with people out taking pictures & people sitting on the bridge watching the water float by. Reminded me of the clown in a canoe talking about the flood waters he was in while a couple of kids walk by in the ankle deep water.

    BTW – I believe this hurricane was sent by God to punish Texas for denying women the right to a safe legal abortion

  13. 13.

    Davebo

    @TaMara (HFG):

    An evacuation would have been catastrophic. Besides, when would you have ordered it? When the storm was approaching San Antonio?

    Over 100 people died trying to evacuate for Rita.

  14. 14.

    japa21

    @Schlemazel: Actually, it is probably to punish Houston for having a lesbian mayor until last year. At least that is how the Pat Robertsons of the world would see it.

  15. 15.

    Schlemazel

    @Trentrunner:
    Yeah, it is a shame that we don’t have some national weather type agency that could have warned this was coming a week or so ago and in the middle of this week accurately predict where it would hit and that it would drop 3 feet of rain or more. If only we had a miracle agency like that maybe they could have planned & started evacuation before it was too late

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    I’m confident that the phrase “moral hazard” won’t be uttered by any conservative.

    I beg to differ. They’ll talk about it when it applies to providing health coverage to poor people, who will be encouraged to have unhealthy habits now that they have healthcare, but never to rich people doing stupid things like building in a flood zone.

  17. 17.

    Davebo

    Harvey made landfall on the 27th anniversary of Stevie Ray Vaughn’s death.

    Texas Flood indeed.

  19. 19.

    Roger Moore

    @Schlemazel:

    BTW – I believe this hurricane was sent by God to punish Texas for denying women the right to a safe legal abortion

    I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

  21. 21.

    Brendancalling

    Remember when John Cornyn and Ted Cruz voted against Hurricane Sandy relief?

    I’ll be calling Peter King tomorrow to remind him. He was pretty angry, if I recall.

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Davebo:

    Harvey made landfall on the 27th anniversary of Stevie Ray Vaughn’s death.

    There’s that damned number again.

  24. 24.

    TriassicSands

    @Schlemazel:

    Those predictions were done with Tarot cards and tea leaves. Science could never have predicted any of this. That’s why we should replace the NWS, the NIH, NASA, the EPA, and other such departments with a Department of New Age Science and Astrology. It’s time to modernize the Trump way.

  25. 25.

    Wag

    @Geoduck:

    I agree. We have a push mower and it works great. The sound it makes is one of the sounds of summer, along with the slurping sound as I eat another Pallisade peach from the western slope of Colorado.

  26. 26.

    hovercraft

    @Amaranthine RBG: @Brendancalling:

    I’m sure Sen. Cruz will call for no federal funds to be sent to Texas.

    Bootstraps, people, bootstraps.

    They both wrote to the Orange Shitstain on Friday backing up Abbott’s Federal Disaster request. One of the ironies is that Cruz specifically condemned money for NOA planes that were used to fly into Harvey. Someone has a sense of humor. Oh and Blake Pajama Boy and the rest of the “Freedum” caucus in Texas all voted against Sandy money. Despicable, deplorable hypocrites, the lot of them, fuck em.

    To the people of Texas, stay safe, even though most of you voted for these jackasses.

  29. 29.

    TaMara (HFG)

    @Davebo: That was in the back of mind when I was reading the criticism. I’m sure the death toll is going to be high, but it would have been catastrophic if people were on the roads here:

  32. 32.

    TriassicSands

    @Joey Maloney:

    King needs to check with the head* of the Department of Victimology and White Grievances for the proper etiquette on proceeding.

    * Currently, the department head is Donald J. Trump.

  33. 33.

    justawriter

    Doing the math …
    370 billion gallons is 1.13 million acre-feet
    1.13 million acres is 1,766 square miles
    so you could fill a wading pool that is 42 x 42 miles on a side with one foot of water from this storm.

  35. 35.

    TaMara (HFG)

    Just a reminder – when it comes to donations – cash is king:

  36. 36.

    Nicole

    I have memories of my dad, when I was little, covered in sweat from mowing our little postage stamp of a yard with the manual push mower. Then we moved to a house with an almost acre-sized yard and he got a riding mower. I understood.

    Audio editing our podcast today (season two starts in October!) – I wrote the season opener. I hate, hate, hate audio editing. The lead actress was great, acting-wise but could use some technical training on mics. Lots of “p”s to fix. Sigh.

  41. 41.

    Vhh

    @Schlemazel: If Harvey had hit New Orleans, NYC, or San Francisco, Huckabee and the TV preachers would be out there saying it was God’s vengeance, the wages of sin. When Cruz and Cornyn come hat in hand to the Feds, my response will be to offer my prayers. The racist idiots voted for Trump, let them bail.

  42. 42.

    mai naem mobile

    On the Twitter Machine Peter King has already forgiven Texan assholes. I don’t see my tax dollars need to go to some state where they didn’t get ready for a 1000 year flood. Git those water proof bootstraps on and start swimming Texas.

  45. 45.

    CaseyL

    Has anyone here read Kim Stanley Robinson’s book, 2140?

    It’s about New York as a new Venice, after climate change flooded most of the streets in lower Manhattan, and the highrises became city-states. It’s very good (though, as with most of his books, makes major assumptions about “People Power” to create optimal change that actual human behavior doesn’t bear out).

    Anyway, I’m wondering if the Gulf Coast will see that change to permanent Venice-like conditions in the very near future, as a warming Gulf is a perfect incubator for these kinds of super storms.

  46. 46.

    Soprano2

    Southeast Missouri had 9″ – 12″ of rain at the end of April, and it was catastrophic for them. I work in the sewer department, where we call storms “rain events”, and even my mind fails when I try to think about what 50″ of rain means. I predict the infrastructure damage will be on a scale we haven’t seen in the U.S. before.

  48. 48.

    Patricia Kayden

    @mai naem mobile: I have friends and family there and even if I didn’t, I would still expect and want our federal government to do all it can to help Texans recover from this tragedy. Our side doesn’t need to mimic the cold hearted bastards on the Right who have no problem voting against needy people just because they live in blue(r) states.

  50. 50.

    efgoldman

    @trollhattan:

    who approved building mcmansions that near the shoreline? I thought the rich were supposed to be smarter than us regular folk.

    It’s been a problem for years in the wealthy beach/coastal areas of New England. Blizzard of ’78 washed a bunch of expensive houses away, as far as I know most were rebuilt, only to be washed away again.

  52. 52.

    chuckInAustin

    I drove from NOLA to Austin last night. We sailed through Houston, dry streets and no rain (and virtually no traffic).
    The largest arm of the storm was just west of Houston. We cut across the arm of heavy rain in only about 15 minutes with the wind at our back. Once we turned NW toward Austin the crosswind was scary.
    We never encountered any standing water on the roads. Once we hit the heavy rain we were on Interstate / large state highways that are farther from the coast, a bit higher elevation and drain much better.
    The problem with Houston is that it’s practically sea level, so the water doesn’t go anywhere very fast.
    Several people told us to wait, but looking at the forecast I thought it would only get worse, and it did.

  53. 53.

    frosty

    @justawriter: Thanks for the math. As a water resources engineer, it bugs me when people discuss this in gallons. Acre-feet is the appropriate measure — at least for us US troglodytes who haven’t gone metric yet.

    For comparison:
    1.2 million acre-feet fills the Rose Bowl from top to bottom.
    The entire (close to record) Sierra snowpack in 2017 is 29 million acre-feet.

    Source: NASA Earth Observatory

  54. 54.

    efgoldman

    @Schlemazel:

    I believe this hurricane was sent by God to punish Texas for denying women the right to a safe legal abortion

    I’m sort of surprised that the bible bangers haven’t started weeping and wailing about how this is the biblical flood redux, punishment for our wicked ways.

  55. 55.

    Fair Economist

    @Soprano2:

    I predict the infrastructure damage will be on a scale we haven’t seen in the U.S. before.

    Sewers, power plants, refineries – they all depend on water for various purposes and tend to be built near rivers/bayous/etc. This is going to be backing up their water intakes and flooding their electronics. There will be a lot of follow-on damage.

  57. 57.

    KarenH

    Checking in from San Antonio. So far we’ve had less rain than predicted but it’s expected to continue at least to Wednesday. Some road closures due to flooding, but that’s typical for any rain event here.
    San Antonio has about 1100 evacuees in shelters as of Saturday night and room for more. Juicers will be glad to know that an emergency pet shelter has been set up by the city Animal Care Services and is caring for 110 dogs and 30 cats with room for about 50 more. This data is from the San Antonio Express-News today. Also no one is being asked their immigration status.
    Our neighborhood is not a flood prone area and we are well provisioned so plan to stay in for the next few days.

  58. 58.

    Schlemazel

    @Patricia Kayden:
    We will not mimic their behaviour but it is very very important to use this opportunity to remind them that their behaviour is despicable and that we all need help from time to time and the best thing to do is to help each other.

  59. 59.

    Villago Delenda Est

    This is bad. Gosh, you suppose that Cruz and Cornyn will be a bit less assholish about storm relief than they were for Sandy?

  61. 61.

    Schlemazel

    @Peale:
    THe beloved FSM would not want me to fly commercial so I really need this personal jet plane. SImply because I hire beautiful young girls as flight attendants should not open me to criticism!

  62. 62.

    efgoldman

    @Nicole:

    I hate, hate, hate audio editing.

    Digital, or old-fashioned razor blade and splicing tape?
    I produced a record (yes that long ago) by some fraud meditation guru. Pre-digital (early 70s), I spent literally days with razor blade and splicing tape trying to take out all the um’s and ahs and pauses and throat clearings….
    Eventually I gave up and let side 2 go just as the klown spoke it.

  67. 67.

    dexwood

    My wife’s cousin and his wife were supposed to fly home to Houston this morning after a week in Albuquerque. That ain’t happening. Fortunately, his mother, who lives next door to us, has plenty of room for them. My son, a city employee, is a certified FEMA responder and is on stand-by for deployment to Texas.

  68. 68.

    Ksmiami

    @TaMara (HFG): a rapid evacuation order would have led to more tragedies on the road. Due to global warming, Harvey scooped up energy from the gulf and became a monster within 2 days: Houston etc has more than 7 million people

  69. 69.

    Redshift

    ProPublica has a great article from December 2016 (long read, but worth it) about how severe flooding problems in Houston are a result of climate change (and a refusal to acknowledge it) and uncontrolled massive development.

    Come for the solid scientific information about rainfall and drainage, stay for the asshole attitude of the recent head of the Harris County Flood Control District!

    He also said the flood control district has no plans to study climate change or its impacts on Harris County

    He also criticized scientists and conservationists for being “anti-development.”
    “They have an agenda … their agenda to protect the environment overrides common sense,” he said.

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

    @raven:
    Damn
    That reminds me — The Commemorative Air Force (formerly the Confederate Air Force) is based in Corpus Christie with three wings near Houston. I hope they got those beautiful planes out of the way of Harvey.

    Meanwhile, my In laws in Richmond/Rosenburg have about 12″ down with more coming. The slough is full, but not badly flooded yet.

  72. 72.

    sukabi

    @efgoldman: and that’s where you went wrong…god doesn’t punish them, they’ve already been saved. God punishes you for your sins.

  74. 74.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @efgoldman:

    I have fond memories of the old razor-blade-and-tape method. You will remember, but others may not know, that there’s a test which typically goes like this: one of the announcers records the numbers 1-20 in random order:

    2 17 6 5 13 15 8 20 4 12 7 16 19 1 3 9 11 18 14 10

    Then hands you the tape, splicing kit, and instructions to edit so the numbers will play back in consecutive order. Can’t remember whether there was a time limit, but it was challenging to a radio newbie.

  75. 75.

    JPL

    Bethany Anne posted yesterday that she was okay, and her mother who lives near Liberty City was okay also. Hopefully that is still the situation.

  76. 76.

    efgoldman

    @sukabi:

    God punishes you for your sins.

    Me? I live about 200 feet above the river and the valley floor. If it gets to my house, I’ve been a very bad boy.

  77. 77.

    james parente

    @Patricia Kayden: Hi Patricia. I understand where you are coming from.
    As a survivor of Sandy, I truly wish the residents of the Tx. coast the best.
    However, it is very hard for me to not think that these bastards had it coming for the way NY-NJ was daemonized by the Texas Congressional assholes, bible thumpers and many many conservatives.
    The people of Texas are experiencing the easy part of a Hurricane. The storm itself.
    The real suffering will occur during the recovery, when people learn about the insurance fraud partnership between FEMA, NFIP, The insurance companys, the wholly owned (by the insurance industry) adjusters. They will be lied to, they will be pushed into loans that they do not need. Their claims will be severely lowballed. The engineering reports for the damage to their homes will be falsified.
    Many will have their lives destroyed, as mine was.
    They will learn about phony federal recovery grants, offsets and Duplication of benefits.
    There folks are in for a world of shit from the scavenger bastards who are crooked contractors.
    However, they will have plenty of good thoughts and prayers. Tits on a bull.

  80. 80.

    ? Martin

    @Redshift: Worth also pointing out that Louisiana has exactly the opposite approach here. They’re the gold standard right now for respecting the potential of climate change and how to protect/restore the delta. Of course, they stared down the catastrophe and recognized they needed to change. We’ll see if Texas can do the same.

    The propublica piece is extremely good (as usual) but part of Texas’ problem is that the state government is so weak, except when it comes to closing abortion clinics and suppressing votes, that it’s hard to see how they could make that kind of a shift.

  81. 81.

    efgoldman

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Can’t remember whether there was a time limit, but it was challenging to a radio newbie.

    I never actually had any training, but maybe a ten minute demonstration. I taught myself.
    Tangentially, what was once a great college station is all done. The kids played album sides and “progressive” rock long before it caught on commercially; that’s also where I listened to gavel to gavel coverage of the Watergate hearings (my office then was nearer to Providence than to Boston. The signal came in loud and clear).

  82. 82.

    NMgal

    I was visiting Houston during TS Allison:

    The storm dropped heavy rainfall along its path, peaking at over 40 inches (1,000 mm) in Texas. The worst flooding occurred in Houston, where most of Allison’s damage occurred: 30,000 became homeless after the storm flooded over 70,000 houses and destroyed 2,744 homes. Downtown Houston was inundated with flooding, causing severe damage to hospitals and businesses. Twenty-three people died in Texas.

    This is shaping up to be worse. One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that virtually everyone is now stuck in Houston — the freeways are flooded and flights restricted. In 2001 we got out with judicious use of the TxDOT road conditions map, finding unflooded back roads, but it’s even dicier with this storm.

    I hope many people and businesses learned lessons from that disaster. For instance, some major hospitals had their backup generators in the basement, which filled completely with water necessitating evacuation of very sick patients. Rule 1 in Houston: Don’t put the generator underground.

    Harvey only redeveloped into anything resembling a big storm on Aug. 23, four days ago. If the mayor had ordered evacuation then, there were really only two full days for several million people to GTFO before things got bad and people needed to get inside and off the roads. Guaranteed that people would have died as a result of the resulting traffic jams, panic, etc. And nothing might have happened. It’s just not feasible to evacuate that many people in a matter of days. Rockport, sure — 10K people can skeddadle. But for big cities, there’s a reason shelter in place is a thing.

  83. 83.

    Renie

    @Brendancalling: Peter King has already put out a statement saying that even though TX reps voted against Sandy aid he would not vote against TX aid. Despise the man who is my rep but right call.

  84. 84.

    Another Scott

    @james parente: That’s horrible. :-(

    But unsurprising.

    We know how to create systems that will help people (and the country) recover quickly from natural disasters. But they don’t work if we don’t have sensible people in place to make sure they’re administered fairly and competently.

    People are policy.

    As Kay says, Donnie hires bad people, and the Texas GOP is filled with monsters as well. I have no confidence that there will be effective administration of recovery and rebuilding efforts after Harvey. I would love to be wrong about that.

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  85. 85.

    Redshift

    @Ksmiami: Seems like there could be some middle ground between the impossibility of evacuating 7 million people and telling everyone they’ll be safer at home. From what I’m reading, to a certain degree the no-evacuation attitude this time is a reaction to Hurricane Rita, when a major evacuation was attempted and indeed more people died on the road because it ended up not causing major flooding after all. I suspect this flooding will cause a swing back in the other direction.

  86. 86.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @efgoldman:

    I produced a record (yes that long ago) by some fraud meditation guru. Pre-digital (early 70s), I spent literally days with razor blade and splicing tape trying to take out all the um’s and ahs and pauses and throat clearings….

    I have a terrible suspicion that you weren’t taking out ums, you were taking out Oms, defeating the entire purpose of the meditation.

  87. 87.

    Immanentize

    Also, re: mega churches –.Joel Osteen’ s mega church is in the old Houston Rockets arena and that area is certainly under water.

    God’s will? Who’s to say?

  88. 88.

    trollhattan

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Heh, I used to do audio editing for radio and AV production and found it oddly comforting in a sheltered-workshop kind of way. The zen of the perfect splice. This was just 1/4-inch half-track, the folks in multitrack studios working with 2-inch tape were gods. Also worshiped at the House of Revox–Swiss perfection.

  89. 89.

    Josie

    Those of you giving Texans the back of your hand need to remember that, in the last election, Houston and/or Harris County voted Democratic for every office on the ballot and are not responsible for what Cruz, Cornyn and Abbott say or do. The are other people in Texas besides the stupid conservatives – lots of us.

  90. 90.

    trollhattan

    @Renie:
    At least he has the sense to state that out loud. “Even if you douches did that, you do remember doing that, yes? We’re going to do this instead.”

  92. 92.

    Immanentize

    @JPL:
    FYI. “Liberty City” is just north of Miami in FLA.
    “Liberty” is the name of the town just north of Houston. Very different populations.

  94. 94.

    Redshift

    @? Martin:

    The propublica piece is extremely good (as usual) but part of Texas’ problem is that the state government is so weak, except when it comes to closing abortion clinics and suppressing votes, that it’s hard to see how they could make that kind of a shift.

    Yeah, though as the piece points out, the biggest changes needed are at the local level. My favorite thing about the article is how they deftly stick in the shiv on BS claims by Texas officials. They say “oh, we can’t make retirements much more stringent, or developers will go to [neighboring community],” and ProPublica notes that [neighboring community] already has those requirements and has plenty of development.

  95. 95.

    Josie

    @trollhattan: That is so true. The people struggling to float and walk out of flooded neighborhoods are mostly in eastern and southeastern Houston. Some middle and upper middle neighborhoods are affected, but many more poor ones. They are also the ones least able to sustain losses of housing and transportation.

  96. 96.

    Patricia Kayden

    @james parente:

    However, it is very hard for me to not think that these bastards had it coming for the way NY-NJ was daemonized by the Texas Congressional assholes, bible thumpers and many many conservatives.

    If the suffering could be limited to just the bastards like Cruz and Cornyn, I’d probably be alright with it but unfortunately millions of Texans will be the victims of this hurricane. And as you correctly point out, the suffering is just beginning.

  100. 100.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @trollhattan:

    Heh, I used to do audio editing for radio and AV production and found it oddly comforting in a sheltered-workshop kind of way. The zen of the perfect splice.

    Oh, yes, I loved the process. Still have my kit somewhere in a box or back of a drawer.

  101. 101.

    Fair Economist

    @Redshift:

    Seems like there could be some middle ground between the impossibility of evacuating 7 million people and telling everyone they’ll be safer at home.

    Yes, in this case it was known several days ago that severe flooding was certain and all-time record flooding was quite possible. It’s not possible to evacuate the entire city, but it is possible to do a local evacuation where people leave flooding-susceptible areas for shelters in flood-safe areas. IMO anything in the 100-year flood zone should have been under a mandatory evacuation.

  102. 102.

    mai naem mobile

    Has Keith checked in yet? I believe he loves in Houston. I hope I am wrong and he.lives in Dallas but pretty sure he lives in Houston.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    Of course we’re not going to hold up aid, but I have a hard time criticizing people who are contemptuous of red state voters.

  104. 104.

    JPL

    @Immanentize: Thanks! I should have pulled up a map to check. She had stated that she wanted her move to come stay with her, but chose to sit tight.

  105. 105.

    ? Martin

    @Redshift: The changes need to be made at the local level, but that’s a collective action problem – whether justified or not. Why is Wisconsin giving Foxconn $3B in tax credits which it knows it’ll never get back? Because they’re afraid that Minnesota would be willing to do it instead. The only way out from this is for the state of Texas to not give the local communities the opportunity to make these kinds of calculations. It’s easy to say that local officials should do them regardless, but if the public has embraced the mindset, they’ll just get voted out. Collective action problems become really pernicious in a democracy because if the voters embrace the FOMO mindset, then the elected officials, by necessity, will embrace the mindset. And you can see the moral hazard here – “Why are all of your voters dead?” “Well, they wanted a set of policies that would kill them, who am I to say no?”

  106. 106.

    ? Martin

    @germy: Given the extent to which McGregor was race-baiting through this whole exercise, I’m guessing just kindred spirits.

  109. 109.

    OGLiberal

    @efgoldman: Everytime a big storm hits NJ, the govt/state tries to put in dunes and the rich folks with oceanfront mansions pitch a fit because it will ruin their view, or something like that. When what they use as their second or third home gets destroyed, they scream for federal funds and rebuild. The middle class folks across the street who would have also benefitted from the dunes lose their homes and generally get screwed when trying to get compensated for rebuilding.

  110. 110.

    Josie

    @Baud: CS is from Houston. Haven’t seen him here since he went on vacation.
    I’m in west Houston at my son’s house. Luckily we are on high ground and not close to any bayous. We are watching the water climb slowly up the driveway and hoping that we don’t have another night like last night.

  114. 114.

    Patricia Kayden

    @germy: They just cannot hide their superiority complex, can they? McGregor is Irish while Mayweather is American. Why is Trump giving kudos to a foreigner?

    Anyways, I hope there is some backlash to Trump pardoning Arpaio. It may not be illegal but it certainly is unethical. And surely Trump should pay a price for trying to interfere with Arpaio’s indictment by speaking with Sessions about it. The Rightwingers who freaked out when President Clinton met with Attorney General Lynch on that tarmac should be just as freaked out about Trump talking to Sessions about Arpaio’s prosecution.

  115. 115.

    NMgal

    I texted an elderly friend in Pearland to check on her. This is the town south of Houston where a flood control district meteorologist reported nearly 10 inches of rain fell *in 1.5 hours.* I’ve been in 4-inch-per-hour rain and it’s like buckets of water are being continually dumped; I cannot imagine it twice that bad.

    Haven’t gotten a reply yet. I last spoke with my friend on Friday, and she had chosen to stay rather than follow her granddaughter and great-grandchildren on their evacuation to Dallas. Sure wish she had. At least she’s got a second story.

  117. 117.

    ? Martin

    The situation in Houston is going to get much worse. The storm is going to sit there for another 4 days, possibly even shifting back over water to pick up a little bit of strength again before heading north to Houston.

    The city could absorb the first foot or so of rain, but that inundated their drainage systems. The storm is to their south, which means it’s pushing water from the gulf into the city making it harder for the drainage systems to work. Every drop of water that lands in Houston after that first foot has nowhere to go, thats why floodwaters are rising so quickly now. Further, rain that landed to the west flows into Houston. There too, some got absorbed, but the rest will inevitably flow into the city – but it’s delayed. It takes time for water to flow across a floodplain – on the order of hours. Which means that every inch of rain is delivering more than one inch of rise, so long as there is still some kind of storm surge pushing the gulf into the city – which will last for 4 more days.

    One of the somewhat saving graces of hurricanes is that they tend to not last more than a day. This one will last a week. This isn’t the 100 year storm Houston was expecting to face – it’s probably the 1000 year storm, but it’ll happen at least every 100 years now.

  118. 118.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: no need for any worries — and no maps necessary It’s that Liberty City is segregated black (about 95% +) and Liberty Texas is a straight up southern town 70+% white. Two sides of the America I have lived.

  123. 123.

    Gin & Tonic

    @germy: Huge credit to the white guy, he means. Yeah, huge credit to a 28-year-old guy who was gassed after only 10 rounds with a 40-year-old guy who technically retired two years ago. If the ref had let it go another round McGregor would’ve likely sustained permanent brain damage.

  126. 126.

    ? Martin

    @Mnemosyne: I want them to get their money too. Perhaps a statement on the importance of women’s health and access to abortion, the importance of respecting gay and transgender rights, and an insistence that Texas turn to a non-partisan voting commission to redraw their district maps and set ballot access policies. A small gesture could go a long way here.

  128. 128.

    germy

    @Gin & Tonic:

    If the ref had let it go another round McGregor would’ve likely sustained permanent brain damage.

    I’m not a boxing fan but after I saw some of McGregor’s comments before the match I was hoping he’d get the stuffing knocked out of him.

  129. 129.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Mnemosyne: Being a Republican means you can be an a*s and still get whatever it is your constituents need because you know that the other side is composed of decent people. That’s just how it is.

  130. 130.

    Starfish

    @Josie: People in Texas live in a very gerrymandered state, and the people who are going to lose their homes do not deserve this.

  134. 134.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    I don’t actually want to deny flood relief to Texas

    I’m from Texas. I would happily deny relief to these fuckers. They believe in a cruel God. They have pastors who gleefully preach that disaster elsewhere are because people are too liberal, support abortion, disobey God.

    The political idiots insist that the federal government is not necessary.

    Yeah, make these bastards bend the knee before you give them a damn thing.

    ETA. Had to vent. I recognize that a lot of Texans, including people who did not have much themselves, opened up their homes to victims of Hurricane Katrina. No easy way to separate the wicked from the worthy.

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    @Patricia Kayden:

    The Rightwingers who freaked out when President Clinton met with Attorney General Lynch on that tarmac should be just as freaked out about Trump talking to Sessions about Arpaio’s prosecution.

    Excellent point! But Republicans will wave away any contradiction.

    ..

  139. 139.

    BethanyAnne

    @JPL: Mom’s in Katy – much closer to the flood zones than I am. But she’s safe, and we’re staying indoors. Last night was sort of funny. The Houston police chief released a Periscope video of him out working tonight, looking at some cars in flooded intersections.”People! Stay. Home.” /as an aside to an aide “why don’t they stay home when they have no damn business out here?”

  141. 141.

    J R in WV

    @justawriter:

    Not interesting as the 370 billion gallon estimate is pulled straight from someone’s ass. We don’t even know how many inches of rain has fallen so far in most places as the gauges have taken off line or destroyed.

    If Houston gets 50 more inches over the next 3 days, they will be in big trouble. I’ve been there, it’s as flat as a pool table, with ‘gators in the bayous. Good food, tho.

  142. 142.

    trollhattan

    @Another Scott:
    Yeesh. The national flood insurance program may not survive this event. Republicans hate it, of course, but I and a hundred-thousand fellow residents rely on it.

  144. 144.

    TriassicSands

    The new head of FEMA says “This will be a devastating disaster, probably the worst disaster the state’s seen.” [my emphasis]

    Yep, there are five (5) reported deaths so far attributed to Harvey. In the 1900 Galveston hurricane between 6,000 and 8,000 people died in the city of Galveston alone. But Harvey is probably worse than that.

    Clearly, the new head of FEMA is another Trumpian idiot!

  147. 147.

    TriassicSands

    @J R in WV:

    I am predicting that a vigintillion inches of rain will fall. My prediction is based on the fact that a vigintillion was my favorite number as a little kid. (1 followed by 63 zeroes — the largest number our family dictionary listed.) I consider my “calculations” to be hard science.

  149. 149.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Patricia Kayden: I have friends and relatives that live in the Houston area, too (all out several days ago to higher ground). And I shouldn’t have to say this in order to justify why they (or anyone there) deserve help, they’re liberal Democrats. It’s one thing to wish Karma on the nasty politicians who behaved like assholes in the past, but there are real human beings dealing with this situation right now who deserve every bit as much help as you or I.

    @Brachiator:

    I would happily deny relief to these fuckers. They believe in a cruel God. They have pastors who gleefully preach that disaster elsewhere are because people are too liberal, support abortion, disobey God.

    Again, a whole lot of those people are none of that. I’m guessing the babies and children being evacuated in chest high water surely aren’t. Just because folks are trapped by geography into having a Ted Cruz or a Greg Abbott as an elected official does not mean they deserve to suffer and die.

    Please remember that when you paint an entire group of people with a broad, dehumanizing brush, you’re essentially doing what your “They’s” do. It’s not us. Separate the politicians from the people.

  150. 150.

    Laura

    @trollhattan: 107° and so damn humid! It’s got to be brutal for the homeless and their pets.
    Bill paying, gazpacho and hugging the a/c.
    We were discussing the 50″ of rain and it’s impossible to imagine how the 4th largest city in the US responds, copes, survives.

    I’ve yet to hear a statement from that odious skidmark beyond good luck.

  151. 151.

    Kirk

    So I’m also in Houston. One of the things a lot of people don’t realize is how much area the city – or more-so the greater metro area – covers. The easiest way I’ve found to describe it? The beltway – the outer highway square you see on the map – is over 25 miles from side to side. I live in Houston. I’m almost 35 miles from the coast. My first ‘stop’ – where I’m currently sheltering – is another 5 miles away from the coast. I’d need to go another 10-15 miles to get “out of town” (past The Woodlands).

    So flooding. My apartment – on the north side of that square I just mentioned – is probably flooded. I don’t know, I evacuated to my ‘first stop’ Saturday. But I see the video of Greenspoint east of the interstate flooded, and I see by the ‘flooded road’ report that the main intersection all of 1/4 mile from my apartment is flooded, and it seems a matter of 2+2. So probably.

    And being honest there’s a chance I’ll have to evacuate here as well. If we really add another 30 inches, it’s possible. If that happens, though, you can figure that Houston has become a very large shallow bay. If that happens all us folk on the list – and the almost 6 million other people living here – will form another refugee pool. And in my long-winded fashion, that’s the critical number. 6 million people.

    Those of us old enough, remember Katrina? Remember how even with mandatory evacuation and a lot of other stuff – and noting the crap that went on – how a lot of people didn’t or couldn’t get out? Remember how refugees from that seemed to go everywhere, and so many didn’t move back? At the time of Katrina New Orlean’s population was less than 500,000 people.

    The evacuation of Houston would mean almost 12 times as many people, moving at least twice as far. The US is going to feel Harvey for years, because just like Katrina (and several other hurricanes) there’s a large portion of the city’s homes and businesses that are done. Gone. It’ll cost billions and take years, and none of that is something a family of four with two incomes can afford.

    That’s not to say Houston will go away. There’s a stubborn streak in all people, and Texans like to flaunt it. But it doesn’t change that we’ll be hearing about refugee/displaced Houstonians and post-Harvey for a long, long time.

  152. 152.

    Mnemosyne

    @Patricia Kayden:

    It shouldn’t be, though. One of the reasons we’re in the mess we’re in is that Republicans like Cruz can act like assholes with no consequences, because Democrats always feel morally obliged to bail them out.

    I want Schumer to demand a signed and notarized pledge from both Cruz and Cornyn that they will never block disaster relief for another state so he will have that to wave around the next time this happens.

  153. 153.

    BethanyAnne

    @Ella in New Mexico: Houston has changed so much over the past 20 years. It’s a very diverse place now. Weather will always suck, but man, the place is really better than it used to be. Texas is changing, too, in spite of itself. I saw this when we won the fight for the bathroom bill a week or so back. Impact Texas I’m not saying that we don’t have a ways to go, but we are moving in the right direction. Actual lefty religious organizations! In Texas! That just made me so happy.

  154. 154.

    Brachiator

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Please remember that when you paint an entire group of people with a broad, dehumanizing brush

    Wow. You either did not read, or ignored, my entire post.

    I’m from Texas. I still have family there. Do you really believe that I want them, or innocent people to suffer?

    Also, I’m from Texas. I know Texans. I can introduce you to people who truly and absolutely believe that God should punish “innocent” people who do ungodly things or who unfortunately live among sinners.

  155. 155.

    Brachiator

    @TriassicSands:

    .My prediction is based on the fact that a vigintillion was my favorite number as a little kid.

    I thought that a vigintillion was a whole lot of virgins.

  158. 158.

    Kathleen

    @ruemara: @Nicole: Would you both mind sharing your podcast URL’s? I have been wanting to do podcast for a long time and would like to subscribe to your podcasts and your newsletters!

  159. 159.

    Squid696

    Houston floods when we get a big rain. Everyone here knows this. There are certain areas that are more likely to flood than others. The people in those areas should have left on their own, but ordering a mandatory evacuation would have been a massive undertaking and I don’t think people realize how difficult it is for a lot of people, especially poor and lower middle class, to just pack the up and leave for a week. I don’t think anyone is going to die from the flooding in their homes. They will die when they get in their cars and get into flooded streets. I think the mayor and county judge have been doing a great job. The governor is just painful to hear speak. On a positive note, they just showed a FEMA team from California out in boats doing rescues. So, other States and the Feds are showing up. Thank you!

  160. 160.

    Feathers

    @Mnemosyne: What I would like is for there to be a “no” vote the first time the bill comes up, announced in advance as a protest of the Sandy double standard. These guys really need to start being held accountable.

    Another issue is that the Flood Insurance program has become a boondoggle making shitloads of money for Big Finance and shitting on the people who actually need money to rebuild. The original program was set up with the intention of either letting people rebuild (once) or use the money to move elsewhere. Of course, what happened was that the ONCE got voted out as soon as people started wanted to rebuild more than once and eventually meant that people started building McMansions right up against the ocean instead of the barely furnished shacks designed to be barely missed if destroyed, which used to be the norm.

    There was a very good episode of FRONTLINE on this – “The Business of Disaster”. No link because I’m on my tablet, but it looks like it is still available for viewing. Hightly recommended.

  162. 162.

    trollhattan

    @Kirk:
    Good of you to check in considering the dire circumstances. The picture you paint is a ghoulish one and as large as Houston is it’s also not the only city being affected. No we can’t wrap our minds around what’s to come. For now, continue to be safe and hope for the best down the road.

  163. 163.

    Feathers

    @Squid696: Also, if there is a mandatory evacuation, then those who stay behind are “lawbreakers” and not worth helping. Heard this after Katrina. But there was a mandatory evacuation, they broke the law and stayed behind.

    Noticing that this disaster is end of the month as well. Many folks out of money.

  165. 165.

    Mnemosyne

    @Squid696:

    I don’t think anyone is going to die from the flooding in their homes.

    People did in New Orleans during Katrina, so I wouldn’t be too sanguine about that possibility.

  166. 166.

    Zinsky

    It’s very important that the people in Houston who have lost their homes in these catastrophic floods remember two things: (1) Climate change is just a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese, and (2) A very large tax cut for the wealthy and corporations will solve everything. That is all.
    Donald J. Trump

  168. 168.

    BethanyAnne

    FWIW, Mom’s in a 2 story apartment complex – she’s on the ground floor. But she could go upstairs easily if the waters rise. I’m in a 3 story complex, ground floor, and could do the same. My ground floor apartment is actually about 4 feet up – every building in the complex is on a raised foundation.

  170. 170.

    Mike Furlan

    I look forward to pictures of heroic white people going out to gather survival supplies next to identical photos save the black protagonist labeled as looters.

  173. 173.

    Squid696

    @Mnemosyne: Parts of New Orleans are below sea level and were flooded because the levees were breached. That is not the case here. We are a coastal plain that is low, but wide.

  174. 174.

    machine

    Southwest Houston checking in. It’s bad here. Houston happens to be the confluence of several bayous that drain into Trinity/Galveston Bay, and after those bayous overflow their banks the saturated ground gives the water no place to go but into homes. And on top of that the city drainage system is terrible.

    Re the questions about evacuation, SE Texas has a contingency plan to evacuate by ZIP codes, starting closest to the “event” but people don’t always wait for their ZIP to be notified. Turner was right, though, about loading up evacuees on freeways, even with the contraflow lanes. The city & state has to have infrastructure in place along evac routes for food, water, fuel and medical care. A full evac would have been a fiasco.

  175. 175.

    chopper

    @? Martin:

    houston has had an extra wet year up until this storm (somewhere about 40% over avg for the date) which is also a factor. bad scene all around.

  177. 177.

    machine

    @BethanyAnne: Thanks. Last night water came w/in 3″ of coming into the house but the rain stopped just in time. Garage flooded a bit but no real damage beyond a few items. Others nearby in Meyerland have it much worse; Brays Bayou is their nemesis.

  178. 178.

    J R in WV

    @sukabi: Gator sausage is OK in Cajun cooking… but I was talking about the great mix of Asian, Cajun, Mexican places, and the few that mix those up successfully.

    If you go into a Mexican sit-down place and most of the patrons are Hispanic or Native American looking, you have found a good place to eat. This is true of most of the South-West. Gator sausage is OK in Cajun dishes, still and all. But seeing the pictures of them coming out of the bayous, I need a bigger gun than my .45. Maybe the 20 gauge with slugs?

    Should probably buy a big rifle, really, Be bad to need it and not have it… if the gators get this far north, of course.

  179. 179.

    Texasboyshaun

    Two of my nieces have had to evacuate their apartments because of flooding in Dickinson. So far Pasadena isn’t flooding, but I’m only a couple of miles from the Ship Channel and the refineries so I’m not optimistic for the near future. We’ve lost two TV stations here. It’s supposed to rain until at least Friday and the current forecast is for Harvey to loop back over open water and regain TS strength before passing directly over us. I’m as liberal as a hippie in an orgy, but if one more Wilbot online tells me this is payback for Cruz & Co., I’m punching them in the d–k. Houston took in 150,000 Katrina evacuees in 2005 and hopefully that good karma will come back for us.Thanks for your thoughts and prayers for us.

  181. 181.

    Kirk

    Trollhattan, fair economist, and Kathleen, thank you for your wishes. I’m more worried about some of our other posters who are a lot closer to it all.

    An observation, and I’d be interested to see what the other people dealing with Harvey have to say. After three days of this, it appears to me that we get a heavy night and a light day. Not to say the day stops, but it’s during the night that the truly heavy rains fall. Example: when I went to bed last night (8-ish), the gage I watch showed about 5 inches in a 24 hour period. When I checked again about 11 hours later, it was 9 inches. It’s at 14 now, 17.88 for the past two days.

    Both for outside observers and for Houstonians, I’m doing heaviest watching of three sites.

    https://www.harriscountyfws.org/ is my live action site, from which I got the above gage information. It’s an interactive map showing all the county’s gages that it has set along various flood waterways. There are two views: how many inches of rainfall have been registered at that site, and a three color graphic of ok, close to overflow, overflowed bank. The color graphic also shows feet from the bank (below and above) at each gage. To get a little idea, flip it to the colored and look at the map.

    http://www.harriscountyfemt.org/ is my “planning” map. It’s all the waterways, and all the flood plains, of Harris county. For movement I’ve had to make in the city, I check that for definite places to avoid. Supplementing that is the traffic (toll road/local highway) authority’s list of high water locations at http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/roadclosures/roadclosures.aspx?show=HW#highwater .

    For the rest, we’ll see what tonight brings – besides more rain.

  182. 182.

    J R in WV

    I have mixed feelings about Houston. Some family visits there were great.

    Then my dad’s blood work, which had been odd for quite a while, went south, CMML leukemia. M D Anderson Center did a great job, chemo that got his numbers to where he qualified for a clinical trial, that seemed to stop the leukemia cold.

    But a few years later, the first chemo’s side effects exhibited as COPD, which was harsh as that killed mom back in ’97, caused by Pall Malls. Dad quit smoking back in 1960 and still died of COPD. On election day, 2004, and we all know how that came out. A genuine war hero was tarred by dammed liars.

    Anyway, the food is good. And the medical center. Hard to overcome 2004, though.

  183. 183.

    J R in WV

    @Texasboyshaun:

    WE are all pulling for the people in Texas, no matter if we flare off BS, we still care for the people. Best of luck, do your best to stay safe!!

  184. 184.

    Felonius Monk

    @JPL:

    Trump is going to survey the area on Tuesday. Is he going to drive around in a tank?

    Hopefully, he will be scuba diving with nitrogen in his tank.

  185. 185.

    BethanyAnne

    @J R in WV: I’m sorry to hear that. Dad died of leukemia in 98, he was cared for at MD Anderson, too. Multiple myeloma, I think they called it. I’ve always attributed it to growing up in Texas City, a place where the wind from the chemical plants melts aluminum window screens every 3 years or so.

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