Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Second rate reporter says what?

Come on, man.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Infrastructure week. at last.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / NANCY SMASH! / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Compare & Contrast

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Compare & Contrast

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And a dozen Democrats running in ‘red to purple’ districts get to shake their heads sadly, before explaining how they, of course, would never vote for that mean ol’ lady Pelosi. Thereby sparing them from having to make promises that might actually get them into trouble, when (if) they’re elected. (Just as I would never run away with George Clooney for a wild weekend at his Italian villa — it wouldn’t be fair to poor Amal. The certainty that Mr. Clooney is not about to ask me in no way negates my feminist solidarity.)

 
Across the aisle, a million miles away…

Reader Interactions

132Comments

  4. 4.

    Betty Cracker

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: The Dems do have some younger folks at the party whip level, though: Sinema, Castro, Ellison, Sewell, etc. Maybe it’s time for Steny Hoyer to let one of them have a crack at a top job.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, implicit in Pelosi’s statement is that anyone who would replace her would be a white guy. That’s not a great state of affairs for our party.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    Funny how it’s always women who should shut up and go away. According to Michelle Cottle at The Atlantic, Hillary Clinton is going to doom the Democrats in the midterms if she doesn’t zip it about 2016. Meanwhile, Mitt Romney, who was a harsh critic of Trump before crawling to the steakhouse to lick Trump’s wingtips in hopes of landing the Secretary of State gig, is running for senate in a state he doesn’t really live in, and that’s okay. No one is telling him to shut the fuck up.

    I’ve mentioned before: a wingnut down the road from me has a “Fire Pelosi” bumper sticker on his truck — has had that sticker for at least five years. We are thousands of miles from Pelosi’s district. But I honestly don’t think the prospect of Pelosi as speaker swings a single vote that Democrats would have otherwise collected. If you hate Pelosi that fucking much, you’re a Trump-voting asshole who will definitely vote for whatever wingnut hairball the local GOP horks up. End of story.

  9. 9.

    beth

    I just heard Morning Joe refer to Trump as “that lifelong Democrat from Queens”. Boy when he finally goes down it’s going to be nothing but “Donald who?” from the right.

  13. 13.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I finally got “hate honked” yesterday and it was really pretty funny. I was cautiously making a turn at a funky intersection (with turn signal on) and after my turn this older white guy behind me just totally and completely loses it as he drives on, flipping me off and screaming at me with waaaayyyy over the top spittle flecked rage… with his windows up so I couldn’t hear a damn thing he said. After I responded in my usual restrained and perfectly reasonable manner, I tried to figure out what I could have possibly done to piss him off and then it came to me: I have the nerve to hate on the great orange one and speak of it. I’ve been wearing a smile on my face ever since.

  15. 15.

    Derelict

    I’m looking forward to all my Democratic friends and family screeching about how Pelosi has to go and should not be Speaker again. “Why?” I ask them. “Because she’s hated,” they say.
    Hated by whom? Conservatives. And waaaayyy too many Democrats have bought into that narrative.
    Conservatives hate Pelosi because she’s savvy, effective, and a genuine leader who gets things done. And, of course, because she’s a woman. We need to celebrate that, not buy into the Rightwing’s wish-list to get a soft-spined Speaker when Dems regain power.

  16. 16.

    bystander

    It would seem to me that the repubs loathing of Pelosi would make Democrats more solidly behind her. What actual Dem ever has a criticism of her other than her age and that she reps San Francisco? Who ever makes actual charges of incompetence or corruption?

    Meanwhile the bothsiderists are the greatest moral relativists when they tell us that there’s no difference between people who believe in science and economics, who believe in equality before the law and in the paycheck and people who believe the opposite.

  19. 19.

    Steve in the SFO

    @bystander: I don’t care for her speaking voice, but the things she says are great! Except that “impeachment is off the table” business back in the shrub kakistocracy

  20. 20.

    Schlemazel

    @bystander:
    Bernies boys make charges against Pelosi often. Naturally they cannot back those up with any examples but, you know, if there is smoke there must be fire

  21. 21.

    Steve in the SFO

    @Baud:

    I bet they also complain about how Dems are so weak.

    Oh, they must have been watching me bench press….

  25. 25.

    MomSense

    Increased moral relativism is the problem according to Fuck You Paul Ryan?!?! I just can’t with that shitheel. I just can’t.

  28. 28.

    debbie

    @satby:

    I would too, but I got my windshield smashed many years ago over a bumper sticker (NH during the Timberlane teachers’ strike).

  31. 31.

    kingweasil

    pelosi has every right to run, but after the Globe backed mcain and palin i had enough of my hometown paper. then they skewed the stats on the MBTA bus maintenance record so charlie baker could privatize the machinists,a well running operation to outside vendors,hitting closer to home… frig the globe, a once proud democratic institution in massachusetts

  32. 32.

    aimai

    @Baud: ISn’t that because none of the old white guys in the leadership below her is making room for a younger crowd?

  34. 34.

    JPL

    I read that Sen Isakson stated that Trump’s statement about Jackson were false. He has let Tester speak previously, because republicans in general are fearful of the president and his tweets. It’s nice to see him step forward.

  44. 44.

    mai naem mobile

    I am not sure there’s anybody better than Pelosi for Speaker if the Dems take back the house. You want somebody with a ton of exoerience who also knows how to work with the opposite party in the executive branch and knows how to pass legislation and has been around during an impeachment. BTW Hoyer is horrible on teevee. He can’t even defend Dem positions strongly.

  47. 47.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    After I responded in my usual restrained and perfectly reasonable manner,

    Was that one finger or two? And was there an accompanying soundtrack?

  51. 51.

    SFAW

    @Schlemazel:

    Bernies boys make charges against Pelosi often.

    It’s not just that “wing” that goes after her. Seth Moulton (MA), a sensible centrist, also thinks she’s a problem, because veeblefetzer.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @aimai:

    ISn’t that because none of the old white guys in the leadership below her is making room for a younger crowd?

    It is hard to make the criticism that those guys are too old if one is not willing to point the same finger at Pelosi. Personally, I think it is all much ado about nothing. The DEM house members pick their leaders as they see fit for reasons that range from being very effective to being a good fund raiser. Relatively young is rarely a point in ones favor if it comes with a short track record.

  55. 55.

    debbie

    Fuck Ryan, fuck all conservatives who have destroyed the notion of common good. Nothing has been more damaging to this country than that.

  57. 57.

    SFAW

    @mai naem mobile:

    BTW Hoyer is horrible on teevee. He can’t even defend Dem positions strongly.

    I seem to recall Hoyer being one of those sensible centrists, although not totally so.

  58. 58.

    SFAW

    @debbie:

    Fuck Ryan, fuck all conservatives who have destroyed the notion of common good. Nothing has been more damaging to this country than that.

    Too long for a bumper sticker, but maybe put it on one of those super-large refrigerator magnets, slap it on the side(s) of the car.

  64. 64.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: I’m sure that nothing could possibly go wrong with that. I did hear on the news that you can’t date your friends. I think the only friend that I have on FB that’s female is the kid, so that’s probably a good thing.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    I understand Kanye is a publicity hound, but I see no reason why he should be treated any better than Roseanne or any other Trump supporter.

  68. 68.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Citizen scientists who took part in an expedition to Borneo’s Maliau Basin recovered the first known specimen of Grouvellinus leonardodicaprioi from a shallow stream about a kilometre above sea level. The 3mm-long beetle was rather battered and lacked a front leg and antenna.

    He has company:

    The DiCaprio beetle is only the latest new species to be named after a prominent figure. Earlier this year, a particularly beefy fly from the Brazilian Amazon was named after Arnold Schwarzenegger, while last year the discovery of a moth with yellowish-white scales on its head was named after Donald Trump. Kate Winslet, who starred alongside DiCaprio in Titanic, already has a beetle named after her, as do George W Bush, Bill Clinton and Adolf Hitler.

  70. 70.

    oldgold

    Does Pelosi’s announcement make it more or less likely the Democrats win a majority of the House this November?

    The answer to that question is all I care about.

  72. 72.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @oldgold: I doubt it has any effect at all. If one is going to vote for the party of trump because of Pelosi, they were never going to vote DEM to begin with.

  73. 73.

    tobie

    In my deep red district (MD-1), one of the Democratic candidates for the House has said regarding Pelosi that she’s lost touch with her constituents. I’m not even sure what that’s supposed to mean. As far as I can tell Pelosi’s policies pretty much line up with her San Francisco constituents. They may not line up with the views of the Eastern Shore of Maryland but she doesn’t represent us in Congress. Anyhow: I’m torn. This fellow seems like the only candidate who could beat our current Freedom Caucus Rep, but I can’t vote for someone in the primary who would say something so dumb.

  76. 76.

    JPL

    @tobie: Early voting has started in GA, and it might be the first primary that I skip. I’ll support the democratic nominee in the fall. Do you vote for the person you think can win, or the one that aligns more with your views.

    So Baud answered my question

  79. 79.

    Booger

    @Baud: Isn’t that just getting back to its roots? I thought MZ developed it as a tool to rank undergrads by looks?

  80. 80.

    Baud

    @JPL:

    It’s a more difficult question when you think multiple people can win but they have different chances. But if you think only one person is viable, then that’s the ball game IMHO.

  81. 81.

    Steve in the SFO

    @Baud:

    If you think he’s the only one who can win, then vote for him.

    This is why I voted for baud

  82. 82.

    tobie

    @Baud: @JPL: It’s the old conundrum: should one vote with one’s heart or one’s head in the primary. At the end of the day, the head should win. Voting is not dating. You vote for the person most likely to advance your interests, and that means someone who has a chance of winning. But, damn, it really is slim pickin in deep read districts/states.

  83. 83.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I know the viewpoint pushed by MSNBC is that Pelosi is dangerously unpopular. Maddow will look under any rock to find someone to say they don’t support Pelosi. The evidence all seems to be anecdotal, but it is the Narrative.

  84. 84.

    Aleta

    @OzarkHillbilly: Citizen scientists who took part in an expedition to Borneo’s Maliau Basin recovered the first known specimen of Grouvellinus leonardodicaprioi from a shallow stream about a kilometre above sea level. The 3mm-long beetle was rather battered and lacked a front leg and antenna.

    Sounds like the start of a horror movie.

  85. 85.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    I think it’s pretty clear that trump and Ryan and the rest of the stinkin’ GOP are immoral. Ryan is probably the biggest psychopath of the bunch but he covers himself in the cloak of Christianity and family man. He’s a total fraud.

  86. 86.

    MomSense

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I’m at the point where I don’t care. I think she’s the best for a lot of reasons but if a D candidate feels s/he needs to run against her to win, well ok then. I do t think Pelosi cares either because she will be the speaker if we retake the House.

    We have to win first.

  87. 87.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @tobie: You are in a deep red district. One can not possibly win without being or at least playing to the stupid.

  88. 88.

    Central Planning

    @tobie: if she has lost touch with her constituents, why do they keep electing her? What would your guy say about that?

  91. 91.

    Dave

    @MomSense: Exactly Pelosi is a strong speaker but if you live in reddish district and feel you have to ding her whatever go ahead an do it. It’s not a big deal to me as long as you are solid vote on important issues. Fairly sure it’s not a bid deal to Pelosi either. She unlike some people isn’t an overgrown man-child.

  92. 92.

    Peale

    @Aleta: since it’s never been seen before, how do they know it’s not supposed to be a five legged beetle?

  93. 93.

    Jeffro

    Oh hey look, who could have expected that Ross Douthat would pick up right where that creepy GMU economist Robert Hanson left off, about the need to ‘redistribute’ sex so that “incels” get a little action?

    NYT, you already had enough to answer for with your anti-Hillary bullshit. But this? Seriously??

    …A number of the critics I saw engaging with Srinivasan’s [anti-Hanson] essay tended to respond the way a normal center-left writer like Weissman engaged with Hanson’s thought experiment — by commenting on its weirdness or ideological extremity rather than engaging fully with its substance. But to me, reading Hanson and Srinivasan together offers a good case study in how intellectual eccentrics — like socialists and populists in politics — can surface issues and problems that lurk beneath the surface of more mainstream debates.

    By this I mean that as offensive or utopian the redistribution of sex might sound, the idea is entirely responsive to the logic of late-modern sexual life, and its pursuit would be entirely characteristic of a recurring pattern in liberal societies.

    First, because like other forms of neoliberal deregulation the sexual revolution created new winners and losers, new hierarchies to replace the old ones, privileging the beautiful and rich and socially adept in new ways and relegating others to new forms of loneliness and frustration.

    Ross…I can’t even…

    Second, because in this new landscape, and amid other economic and technological transformations, the sexes seem to be struggling generally to relate to one another, with social and political chasms opening between them and not only marriage and family but also sexual activity itself in recent decline.

    Third, because the culture’s dominant message about sex is still essentially Hefnerian, despite certain revisions attempted by feminists since the heyday of the Playboy philosophy — a message that frequency and variety in sexual experience is as close to a summum bonum as the human condition has to offer, that the greatest possible diversity in sexual desires and tastes and identities should be not only accepted but cultivated, and that virginity and celibacy are at best strange and at worst pitiable states. And this master narrative, inevitably, makes both the new inequalities and the decline of actual relationships that much more difficult to bear …

    Helpmehelpmehelpmehelpme, Lil’ Ross says…

    … which in turn encourages people, as ever under modernity, to place their hope for escape from the costs of one revolution in a further one yet to come, be it political, social or technological, which will supply if not the promised utopia at least some form of redress for the many people that progress has obviously left behind.

    There is an alternative, conservative response, of course — namely, that our widespread isolation and unhappiness and sterility might be dealt with by reviving or adapting older ideas about the virtues of monogamy and chastity and permanence and the special respect owed to the celibate.

    Isn’t it funny how EVERY. ISSUE. comes back to this for Ross? Not that Hanson is a sick individual and now let’s move on…it’s “Hanson, ‘brilliant weirdo’ that he is, essentially dovetails with my solution for EVERYTHING”

    All that valuable op-ed space, wasted on Chunky Bobo…

  94. 94.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @MomSense:
    I strongly support Pelosi and I don’t think she’s any danger to our prospects at all. I also think the idea of a revolt against her from her caucus is laughably unlikely. But it is the Narrative, pushed by even the liberal press! It is weird to me to watch, and I swear Maddow has something personal against Pelosi. I assume when she gets the Speakership with a unanimous Democratic vote the Narrative will be how there was ALMOST an en mass defection but people just barely decided to hang together against Republicans.

  99. 99.

    germy

    NOVA WONDERS
    What’s Living in You?

    An examination of the microbes that live in and on humans, and the important roles they play in health. Included: evidence that suggests a damaged microbiome may contribute to obesity, allergies, and even mental disorders.

    I fell asleep during “Civilizations” last night. Maybe I can keep awake for this.

  100. 100.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @schrodingers_cat:
    I like Maddow. I don’t consider her anywhere near perfect. She’s the last person I’d have expected to jump on the Everybody Hates Pelosi train, but MSNBC as a whole is on that train, and Maddow is eagerly stoking the boiler. My general point isn’t her, but that it’s the Narrative TV-watching liberals are inundated by. Like most Narratives, the press has to scrape and hunt for examples, but they do just that.

  101. 101.

    Manyakitty

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe one of them can work with Pelosi. In general, I agree that we DESPERATELY need some new blood in leadership, but Nancy knows how to work the system and that only comes with experience. She can take it easy AFTER we get rid of Shit Midas.

  103. 103.

    Manyakitty

    @JPL: Isakson recently benefited from a favor from a Democratic friend. Maybe he can be the first Republican to get back to serving the country instead of the traitor.

  104. 104.

    schrodingers_cat

    @germy: It was pretty boring. I am curious about #4. Then I think I will stop watching. They completely did not get the point and the symbolism of idols in Hindu worship. Also, they tried to conflate too many things across vast time periods to come up with some kind of a unifying thread and failed.

  105. 105.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I assume when she gets the Speakership with a unanimous Democratic vote

    It won’t be unanimous because some have to take the political stance of voting for someone else so the voters back home will know whose side they are on. Pelosi being an adult, understands this and will hold no grudge against them. She will even give them slack to step out of line from time to time so they can demonstrate their “independence” as long as they are there when she needs them to be.

  107. 107.

    JPL

    @Manyakitty: I’m pretty familiar with the ballot. The 6th district has two good candidates and for me it’s a toss-up on who to vote for. The one that I lean towards moved to TX when he was fourteen from South Africa.
    He owned a successful business and works closely with his synagogue to support refugee families. The ads write themselves.
    The other was on the morning news so is known throughout the district. They are both stronger than Ossoff and either one will go after Handel’s support for the NRA and Trump. Then there are the two Staceys running for governor.

  108. 108.

    MomSense

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I don’t think Maddow is immune to the pressure at MSNBC to go after Dems from the “left”. She’s good on some things but she is not good on the tactics of politics. I don’t think she has any campaign experience so I ignore her on a whole range of subjects. I also think she is overrated on security issues and I don’t watch her because I don’t like being treated like I can’t keep up. I don’t watch news much anyway except for Melber and Reid when I can.

  109. 109.

    Manyakitty

    @JPL: Fair enough. Still can’t hurt to go give your candidate a vote. For my primary here in Ohio, I’m voting to the newer guy, who has great ideas about education and is already a state sentator–Joe Schiavoni. I will vote for the Democrat in the general (who I expect to be Cordray).

    Which Stacey do you like? I follow Stacey Abrams on twitter and she comes across as VERY smart and focused.

  110. 110.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @JPL:

    Early voting has started in GA, and it might be the first primary that I skip.

    Why would you skip the primary?

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    I love Nancy Smash. She’s exceptional. Screw MSNBC, if they don’t get it.

    @MomSense:

    I don’t watch [Maddow] because I don’t like being treated like I can’t keep up.

    Yup. Limited doses.

  112. 112.

    sheila in nc

    Early voting is also well advanced here in NC. I’ve volunteered and trained to be an election official for the first time. The training was fascinating, and I’ve learned a lot about election rules and NC election law. However, we don’t expect a huge number of voters in my county — in half the county, there is no ballot on the R side (no R’s running against each other) although I expect there will be an R in the general.
    Also, being an election official is physically hard. As in, you have to be at your site before 6 am and you can’t leave — I mean cannot even exit the building temporarily — until it’s all over. Voting ends at 7:30, and then there is all the finalizing and packing up. I’m expecting an 18-hour day next Tuesday.

  114. 114.

    DesertFriar

    “Moral Relativism???”

    Ryan has been in the Congress (as one of the “young guns”) since 2015. Which party has been in control during that time?

    Although, “Moral Relativists” is probably closer to the true than “Compassionate Conservatism”

  115. 115.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MomSense: @Elizabelle: Maddow’s show is not aimed at political obsessives like us jackals. Yeah, we know the background latest breaking news because we are weirdos. Not everyone is like that. The show is aimed at people like my mom, a nice, liberal retired teacher who does not spend hours on politics everyday but would like to keep up.

  117. 117.

    JPL

    @Manyakitty: Her voting record is not what one would expect from a progressive, and she approved the gerrymandering in 2015. She now is saying she was misled. She might be able to win though.

  119. 119.

    gvg

    @tobie: Maybe you should write them a detailed letter or two about why Peloisi is not out of step with her own district and why she still would be an excellent speaker. Maybe he needs to know votes like yours actually exist in his district.

  121. 121.

    JPL

    @LAO:

    A Rigged System – They don’t want to turn over Documents to Congress. What are they afraid of? Why so much redacting? Why such unequal “justice?” At some point I will have no choice but to use the powers granted to the Presidency and get involved!

    The question is when does he rid himself of this pesky investigation

  122. 122.

    LAO

    @JPL:

    “The questions are an intrusion into the President’s Article 2 powers under the Constitution to fire any Executive Branch Employee…what the President was thinking is an outrageous…..as to the President’s unfettered power to fire anyone…” Joe Digenova, former US Attorney— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 2, 2018

    Sooner I fear, rather than later.

  123. 123.

    Kathleen

    @MomSense: I think she is ambitious and competitive (found her initial silence regarding Reid interesting) and is adept at reading tea leaves and being a “team player”. I’m not saying these behaviors are inherently “bad”. First and foremost she’s an employee and knows how to play the game. I don’t think anyone will “come after her” from left or right. My point is while she has done good reporting she’ll never speak to power like Reid does. And her anti Dem bias protects her.

  124. 124.

    catclub

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I know the viewpoint pushed by MSNBC is that Pelosi is dangerously unpopular. Maddow will look under any rock to find someone to say they don’t support Pelosi.

    I know pelosi is unpopular with Republicans. But there is no similar concern that Paul Ryan, or even more so, Mitch McConnell is unpopular with Democrats.

    Likewise Ryan (or McConnell) is unpopular with many far right Republicans, but no one seems to go searching for them.

  127. 127.

    Brachiator

    Pelosi is ancient and retire soon. No one should be a member of Congress after age 80.

    But until then, right on Nancy Smash, if she wants to run for Speaker again. However, the Democrats need to cultivate younger leadership.

    @catclub:

    I know pelosi is unpopular with Republicans.

    The Democrats should not give a shit what Republicans think about them.

  129. 129.

    Brachiator

    @Jeffro:

    and that virginity and celibacy are at best strange and at worst pitiable states.

    I thought that this was a self evident truth.

    As is the axiom that Ross Douthat is an idiot.

  130. 130.

    Brachiator

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, there is this approach.

    Fair enough.

    Weird to see all the misguided YouTube comments insisting that Bernie Sanders is the new FDR.

  131. 131.

    SgrAstar

    @debbie: Couldn’t agree with you more. Without a commitment to the common good, there’s nothing. GRRR.

  132. 132.

    Bonnie

    Nancy Pelosi is older than I am. I am 72. She runs circles around me; and, I admire her for her energy. She does the Speaker job well. I have days when walking from my bedroom to the kitchen is so difficult. Yet, she got all the votes needed to pass Obamacare. The Repugs haven’t been able to get things passed as easily as Pelosi made it look. I agree about wanting to see some youth in the ranks of the Democrats; still, if Joe Biden were to run for President in 2020, I think he could win and I would vote for him. Also, I think this last election, despite all the Russian influence, America proved that it is still a sexist pig of a nation. You young women need to work very hard on changing that. Right now, I am too tired; and, I did do my part in my 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.

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