In the comments thread earlier today, some were wondering why Justice Democrats were endorsing a primary challenger for Lacy Clay. I wondered, too. I don’t know a lot about Justice Democrats, but I generally like the idea of primary challenges for safe-seat Democrats from the left. So, is Clay a worthy target?
In 2000, William L (Lacy) Clay, Jr, succeeded his dad, William L (Bill) Clay, who won the MO-1 seat in 1968. Lacy held the seat without a primary challenge until 2012, when Missouri lost a seat due to redistricting, and Lacy easily beat Russ Carnahan in the primary. Lacy had no challenger in 2014, and he easily beat state Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal 63-27 in 2016 (she was facing term limits in 2018, and moved to the state leg. Bill Haas got 10% in that primary). In 2018, he faced Cori Bush, who got 37% of the vote in the primary.
Bush raised $150K in that primary, all of from individual contributors. Clay’s re-elect committee raised $660K, $580K of that came from PACs. About $200K of that money came from Financial, Insurance and Real Estate industry PACs. Clay sits on the Financial Services Committee.
Clay’s list of contributors looks like your basic moderate Democratic Congressman’s list of funders. Some of them might make you wonder – for instance, Rent-A-Center spent $13K help him beat Carnahan in 2012.
Clay’s D+29 district has a black majority and $46K median income. A half full glass of water could get elected there on the Democratic line. Clay has averaged about $650K in fundraising over the last decade, even though he didn’t have a serious challenge until the last cycle.
Clay generally has good rankings from the usual liberal causes. But, if you look at the GovTrack ideology/leadership chart, Clay is squarely in the broad middle. (Run your mouse over that and check out other long-term members like Nadler, who’s far more liberal.)
So we have a 50-year Clay dynasty, currently led by the second generation, who seems to take a lot of PAC money, and has a decent but not outstanding liberal record. Should Lacy Clay be challenged? I don’t see why not. Is Cori Bush a decent challenger? I didn’t find any reason to think she wasn’t – she’s a pastor, nurse and co-director of a non-profit. I couldn’t find anything damning about her online, and her campaign site hardly mentions Clay.
The Congressional Black Caucus has rallied to help Clay, just as they rallied to help Mike Capuano before he was beaten by Ayanna Pressley in the 2018 primary. To me, that’s a “so what” – the CBC is an establishment group dedicated to preserving establishment candidates.
Overall, Clay seems a little too establishment and centrist for such a safe district. The fact that he’s getting primaried seems, overall, a healthy thing for the Democratic party, no matter what he says, or what his staffers tell the establishment gossip rag The Hill. As a liberal, I’d be happier if someone a little more adverse to the financial services industry had Clay’s seat on that committee.
If anyone from Clay’s district is a reader, I’d be especially interested in your take on the race.
Chyron HR
Is he an Identity Politician* who denies the messiah Bernie’s divinity? Then, yes.
* African-American.
ruemara
Thank God we have a dead horse to beat & progressive betters to lead us.
chopper
we should do this with every solid democrat. then we’ll have achieved the perfect circular firing squad. (chef’s kiss)
TenguPhule
Is Clay for or against Impeachment of Barr and Trump?
How much money will the DNC siphon off to defend his seat in a primary?
Those are my only concerns. Otherwise, primary away.
Baud
I assume by establishment you mean incumbent, unless you think the CBC wouldn’t back Pressley if she were primaried.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@TenguPhule: Clay is a yes on impeachment (as any D+29 rep should be). I don’t know about Bush – my guess would be yes.
I don’t know if the DCCC gets into primaries – probably, given their track record.
chopper
honestly, i’d rather look at the justice democrats and see exactly why the fuck these guys are in any position to say who should replace someone like clay.
OzarkHillbilly
As a former STL resident all I can say when it comes to Lazy Clay is, “Blech.” Way out of touch with STL politics beyond the generalities but I suspect the seat is still his to lose. In other words, they could have picked somebody they might actually have a chance of defeating. but they didn’t. Who knows, maybe Cori (who’s website isn’t loading) will surprise me. Ballotpedia says she checks most of the right boxes, but she’s gonna have to be truly special if she wants to beat the kingmaker.
TenguPhule
@[Individual 1] mistermix: So then he’s a bad choice to primary.
Right then, look for a better seat to challenge. Next!
Baud
FWIW, I don’t care that much about primaries on really safe districts. I thought the accusation was that Justice Dems were targeting black incumbents, rather than safe districts. I don’t know if the evidence backs that up.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Unfortunately, there’s a fairly strong correlation between safe districts and minority dominated districts, particularly in gerrymandered red state districts.
OzarkHillbilly
And for the record I think Clay is at best a below average congressman (if you look at the govtrack website mistermix links, you’ll see that most of the bills (11 total) he has been a sponsor of are the “name a post office” variety. STL could do a hell of a lot better, but he’s got fingers in all the political pies there.
ETA and remember, he’s been there for almost 20 years. 11 bills in 20 years? Yeah, Lazy Clay.
TenguPhule
Seems fitting for a country that seems to longer have any national intelligence.
TenguPhule
Never forgive, never forget.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@ruemara: I saw the horse twitch a bit.
Baud
Of course, if you accept this strategy, you can’t really complain if a bunch of centrist Dems try to pick off progressive candidates.
TenguPhule
Need a program, can’t keep track of the failures without a program!
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Letâs beat Trump and the Republicans in 2020. By a lot. Letâs run up the score, so they canât win by cheating, and deliver a huge mandate that no one can ignore.
All efforts and should be focused squarely on that target.
So why are we wasting time talking about primarying Democrats?
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Its only mostly dead.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
What else is there to talk about?
TenguPhule
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Some elected Democrats don’t seem to have a problem with Republicans behaving badly. Which is a problem.
rikyrah
I’m gonna say this again….
they are targeting members of the CBC.
I have a problem with that.
TenguPhule
@Baud: Food taboos like Pineapples on Pizza, Raisins in anything or Mayo Ice Cream?
Omnes Omnibus
@OzarkHillbilly: John Kerry didnât have a lot of legislation on his CV. He made his bones on investigative committee. Other representatives vote on the legislation drafted and sponsored by others and do a lot of constituent service. There isnât One True Way to be a good Congressperson.
dr. bloor
What does Clay do with his money?
TenguPhule
Between Bush Jr and Trump, I’m fairly certain the English language has degraded by about five centuries.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule:
Yum.
Baud
@TenguPhule:
Orange Juice and cereal.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: Yeah, Clay doesn’t seem to be one of them.
Roger Moore
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
No, he didn’t, that was you hitting the cage!
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Heretic! //
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@TenguPhule: Then letâs defeat those Râs at the ballot box. Letâs keep our seats (even if theyâre held by imperfect Dâs) and take their seats.
How is an incumbent like Clay holding us back from defeating the Râs? Letâs focus on taking R seats, not D seats we already have!
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule: You are wrong about raisins. They belong in many foods – just not potato salad (which should not have mayo either, paprika is fine though).
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Depends on the cereal.
Does plain oatmeal count as cereal? Because orange juice does indeed improve it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
That’s a bit unfair, St. Louis isn’t New York City; I’d expect even an urban red state congresscritter to be more moderate than a blue state urban rep.
NotMax
@Baud
You forgot the vodka.
;)
Baud
@TenguPhule: Yuck.
TenguPhule
@Omnes Omnibus:
Potato Salad, Chicken Salad, Steak Salad, those all essentially require mayo coating by definition.
TenguPhule
@NotMax: You doing okay with the wildfires?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: No, think it was mistermix.
les
So–50 year family legacy in a safe district means the mean kids are out of line for thinking of change. Good to know.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Have you eaten plain oatmeal by itself? Orange Juice is an improvement.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Agreed.
@Omnes Omnibus: Your long battle against Mayo is well established(almost as well as the mythical mustard).
Fair Economist
The DCCC will support almost any incumbent. It has too. It’s one of the main carrots to keep Representatives in line.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Tulsi Gabbard’s primary opponent could use some fundraising love.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: OK look, first off Cori Bush is black, so if she wins the CBC will welcome her with open arms. 2nd of all, STL can do a lot better than Clay. If somebody wants to go after a sub par DEM, they would have to go a long way before finding somebody more deserving of getting the boot than Clay.
That said, I don’t think they can do it, I wish they could but I don’t see it.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Plenty of also very tasty potato salads without mayo.
TenguPhule
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, I’m not.
Raisins are grapes that couldn’t make the cut.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So Mixieâs feeling the Bern again
Just in time
As one who is not averse to the occasional
Pie fight, I hope heâll put up respite threads next to his trolly ones, for those who want to avoid the flying custard and meringue
Baud
@TenguPhule:
Aren’t you in the Spam state? What credibility do you have?
TenguPhule
@OzarkHillbilly:
Once again, Tulsi Gabbard.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: Raisins, milk, maybe some brown sugar or honey… I agree with Baud.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Just dandy, thanks. Phone service out across much (if not all) of Maui, though. Internet and power still hangin’ in there.
The Moar You Know
@Baud: This primary does, in fact.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Spam is delicious once you cook it properly.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: Nice, I have no funds though.
TenguPhule
@NotMax: Glad you’re not in one of the mandatory evac zones. Man, those fires look like California.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Nadler is in a D+26 district. Clay is D+29. He has one of the safest safe seats in Congress.
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
Huh? No. My inquiry was about statistics. A single example can’t answer that.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Note to self:
No traditional Holiday Whiskey Cake for TP. Simply tastes wrong sans raisins.
;)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I love SPAM.
The Moar You Know
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Like a clock, every election cycle. Sadly, the pie filter only works on frontpager comments, not their idiot posts.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@rikyrah:
Well, there are a lot of incumbent safe seat Dems on the CBC. So they will be targeted. You can have a problem with that. Do you have a problem with the CBC opposing a black challenger of a white incumbent in Mass? They could have stayed out of that race.
TenguPhule
@NotMax: I would kill for a brandy cake sans nuts. Every fucking commercial baker puts them in.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@[Individual 1] mistermix: Uh, sure.
OzarkHillbilly
@TenguPhule: That’s 4,058 miles. Told you one would have to go a ways. ;-)
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Unless “properly” includes a last step of opening the trash can and dumping it in there, quadruple yuck. Vaguely pork-flavored salt lick.
;)
zhena gogolia
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
I KNOW!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Moar You Know: Those can be skipped, ya know.
rikyrah
Noah ?? (@GoodKidNapCity) Tweeted:
@shaunking @AOC The CBC has largely become a corrupt block covering for power and monied interests. Their disingenuous arguments, disingenuous appeals to race, and backing of people like Biden prove what their real priorities are. https://twitter.com/GoodKidNapCity/status/1149681746541207553?s=17
_—————++
disingenuous appeals to race?
Talking about the Congressional Black Caucus???
Uh huh
Uh huh ?? ?
les
@rikyrah:
So–Clay’s black challenger would have been barred from the CBC if she’d won?
TenguPhule
@NotMax:
Bad Notmax. Its unpatriotic to our homestate’s Spam Musubis and Saimin with Spam, not to mention the Spam breakfast platters. //
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule: No, they do not.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: These Dems aren’t pure. I don’t have a problem with competitive primaries(I’m firmly against mandated term limits), but I’m really distrustful of the “Justice Democrats”.
C Stars
Pineapple on pizza is delicious but now at my advanced age (42) I can’t eat any kinda pizza without getting a stomachache so thinking about a lovely hammy pineapple pizza just makes me feel sad.
Raisins can also be good on pizza (ducks)
Yes, and speaking of pertinent issues, why are we wasting time ensuring already-elected Dems pass the purity test while DT is “president” and the GOP is registering more voters than us?
Also, I like raisins in a chicken salad mix–that also includes mayo, celery, and curry powder–mighty fine.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: Bacon grease or GTFO!
TenguPhule
So this happened yesterday.
Another Scott
Well, you’ve finally made me look at these JD people. Let’s see…. About:
(Emphasis added.)
Nope, nope.
Hollowing out the Democratic Party is very, very bad.
This group sounds too much like Wilmer’s people – “We’re not Democrats, but let’s use the Democratic Party to take power. We won’t work to support Democrats because we only like Wilmer-ites.”
Grrr…
Nope.
I don’t, in general, have anything against people running for office. Vigorous debates about policy and fair voting for party candidates is a good thing. Maybe Clay should retire. But pretending to want to drive the Democratic Party left while actually and explicitly working to hollow it out is very, very bad (at this point in time).
We need more (and yes, better) Democrats. We don’t need to make things easier for 3rd Parties. We should be focused on winning every possible seat (blue dogs, yellow dogs, every kind of Democratic dogs) to start to undo the 40+ years of damage that the GOP has done at all levels of government. If the last 10 years should have taught us anything it’s that without the majority in legislatures and holding the executive mansion, it’s too easy for the GOP to ram crap through. We need the majority, even if it means we have more than a few “Lazy” representatives.
Nope.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Quinerly
I’m a bit offended by this post. Lacy Clay is my Rep. I have met him. Knew his dad. Why are we wasting time and money primarying Dems? We need to build up a bigger majority. Turn some seats in whiter St. Louis County. Put resources there. Lacy is beloved in his district and his community.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
People are asking too much of AOC. She’s only 29. She hasn’t spent 50 years thinking about issues like Elizabeth Warren. Think back to when you were 29.
But at the same time, do we have defend everything she does in knee jerk manner.
Are you going to defend how she tried to defeat Sharice Davids, in favor of some white guy. And then AOC is the first one to say female POC shouldn’t be criticized.
GOVCHRIS1988
@OzarkHillbilly: You really don’t understand much if you don’t believe Lacy Clay will cast Cori Bush as a puppet of out of state, mostly white limousine gentrifiers who are telling black folks they don’t know shit about politics and that they are synonymous with white supremacists like AOC’s big mouthed Chief of Staff tried to reiterate.
Most of these folks always trying to push the party left don’t know these districts, don’t truly know the people or the various organizations nor know that most black people see right through nominating a young black person. If they see her as a white token against black interests and for mostly white back socialist utopia bullshit, you’ll see the same result you saw in 2018, a 60%-%40 low turnout race in favor of the CBC backed incumbent.
TenguPhule
Can I have “Conventions deserving of a giant asteroid to obliterate everything within a five mile radius just to be sure” for 500, Alex?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@C Stars:
I think that qualifies you as a kid around these parts(you’re only 5 years older than my step-daughter). Now get me a fresh onion for my belt and then get off my lawn. //
NotMax
Primarying can serve as a valuable reminder that a Congressional seat is not theirs, it’s ours.
@TenguPhule
Funny coming from one who is anti-pineapple above.
;)
That canned corned beef stuff is a popular seller here,too. Not a reason to subject myself to it. And let’s not even get into lau lau (Saltcon 1).
C Stars
@TenguPhule: My kids love spam musube. My step-mother lived in Hawaii for a while and makes it sometimes for parties (along with a vegan version that is also tasty). The last time we were at a shop with spam musube my five year old asked for the “tongue sushi.” I guess the little red rounded rectangles of meat wrapped to the rice do look just like tongues…but I wonder what kind of animal my kiddo thought it came from…
TenguPhule
@NotMax:
I love pineapple, just not on pizza. I have tentatively come to a truce with it served with ham.
Mmmmm, corned beef hash.
It has to be steamed, not boiled and the only salt should come from the piece of meat/fish being cooked inside. Not on the taro leaves themselves.
Brachiator
Kinda sounds like the Democratic Party. And I don’t mean that in an entirely negative way. A successful political party is part of the establishment. This doesn’t mean that all its members think alike or walk in lockstep.
But being the establishment is not by definition negative, nor is branding yourself as more liberal inherently more positive.
jimmiraybob
Clay filed a bill today on the behalf of Alex Garcia who is in Sanctuary at a UCC church that I am a friend of. Alex is from Honduras and had been working with immigration to stay since he’s established a family and was a productive worker beloved by his Poplar Bluff coworkers and neighbors. Trump, of course, blew that up and Alex has been in sanctuary for going on two years.
Clay got involved a while back but the bill didn’t get filed until Cori Bush made Garcia and his plight an issue. Make of that what you will.
TenguPhule
@C Stars: You can also use hotdogs after marinating in a teriyaki sauce. They make an interesting lighter substitute for the spam.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@TenguPhule: are we sure Schwarzenegger is alive? maybe he’s some guy from the future sent back in time to cover for his absence.
NotMax
@C Stars
Am jonesing for a tongue on rye sandwich from the kosher deli in Mom’s town as part of the upcoming NY trip.
ArchPundit
Yeah, Clay is a hack of extraordinary proportion.
Why does he have a +29 district? Because when redistricting occurred and there was a Democratic Governor to stop a Republican map with a veto, Clay pushed for the Republican map because it gave him a safer seat. Instead of having two Democratic seats splitting Saint Louis and going into the suburbs, he wanted one super Democratic district so he’d be safe. He and some allies had a few African-American lege members vote for the Republican map to get it over the veto override threshold. The other Dem district was held by Russ Carnahan, who is no genius, but he was another Democratic vote.
Clay also has a whole bunch of personal garbage around him that’s hard to prove. However, one public thing he did was announce his divorce to the newspapers before he told his wife or kids. They learned of the divorce from the newspaper.
He’s a jackass and will fight with every tool he has to beat any challenger.
Peale
@TenguPhule: like who could he be mixing Arnold up with? Most of the 80s action heroâs are still living? Maybe Ravishing Rick Rude or Randy Savage? Some wrestler from his wwf days?
C Stars
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Haha… that makes me feel a little better about my upcoming birthday, I guess. I do find myself trying to remember a time when I could eat a cheap, greasy slice and not feel terrible afterward… maybe 16?
Yutsano
@TenguPhule: You can pry my musubi from my cold, dead hands.
Seriously. That shit is amazing.
chopper
@C Stars:
i don’t think raisins are good on ducks either.
laura
@[Individual 1] mistermix: could you just give it damn rest already? FFS, crapping on the CBC with sweeping generalizations and then conflating a primary challenger who happens to be a woman of color as “proof” that crapping on the CBC with the sweeping generalizations isn’t racist af?
Here’s a clue, it’s racist af, and quit trying to convince anyone other than yourself that it isnt.
NotMax
@Peale
Rowdy Roddy Piper?
Mary G
RIP Burns:
OzarkHillbilly
@GOVCHRIS1988:
As anything he thinks will be a win for him. If you like him, fine. BUT, when you say this
I think you should try learning a thing or 2 about Cori Bush first:
That is the sum total of what I know about her, and it ain’t much, certainly not enough to say I would vote for her (which I can’t anyway) but it is enough to know that the possible characterization of her you put forward would be nothing but damn lies.
ArchPundit
@ArchPundit:
Here’s a story on Clay and Cleaver’s efforts to back the GOP map.
Clay non-denial denialed it, but did deny it here.
Quinerly
@Another Scott: I could marry your comment.
And I’m not evening the marrying kind.
This was a total bullshit Front Page post that was a complete waste of time.
If people have resources and money to throw around, oust that fruitcake Tulsi Gabbard.
And St. Louis CITY is not NYC.
Dynasty politics run deep. Lacy’s ties to this community are strong.
ArchPundit
@OzarkHillbilly:
It’s lies, but it’s exactly what Clay will do.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: That would explain he time as Governor.
TenguPhule
@Quinerly:
No need to insult fruitcake.
C Stars
@NotMax: Yes, when I was little my dad (now vegan) used to make the most amazing french dip sandwiches with beef tongue. Our family didn’t have a lot of money and I guess tongue was cheap. Real tongue actually tastes much better than spam, of course.
@TenguPhule: Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting idea.
Brachiator
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Damn. That’s too far back, for me. ;)
Agree with your points. I just hope that AOC and Pelosi and anyone else involved can work things out. The focus really should be on Trump.
ArchPundit
Clay is exactly the kind of democrat we should challenge–in a very safe district where we can put someone of use into office and not lose the seat. There is no danger of beating him and a Republican winning. It won’t happen so go after him. Just like Lipinski though Lipinski is also completely right wing. Clay is ‘liberal’ when it works for him, but will go to bat for anyone contributing enough for him and no one holds him accountable. It’s time to change that.
C Stars
@chopper: https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/duck-confit-with-spicy-pickled-raisins
Just sayin.
TenguPhule
@C Stars:
Split in half down the middle one hotdog per Musubi, comes out looking almost the same.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: There’s always a reason to insult The Fruitcake*.
*There’s only one fruitcake and it just keeps being re-gifted.
schrodingers_cat
Nazi in WH has concentration camps that detain children, people are being rounded up as we speak and M^2 is debating the merits of primarying Ds. For what exactly? So we reach progressive nirvana? This seems like a plan to throw the Congress back to the Rs.
TenguPhule
FTFNYT. Apparently they have no real news stories to look for these days.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
7-11 here offers a musubi with spam, hotdog, Portuguese sausage and egg. Believe it also comes with a discount punch card for a cardiologist visit.
;)
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Half of the Democrats in the House and three quarters of them in the Senate could not unite on this issue to give Speaker Pelosi some leverage to do anything about this. How else do you expect us to fix this?
Quinerly
@TenguPhule: actually, I adore fruitcake. The Claxton brand. Soaked in Ancient, Ancient Age Bourbon. Apologies to fruitcake. The word I wanted to use to describe Tulsi probably is a banned word. Usually a conversation stopper when a woman calls another woman that. But, I digress.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I find it edible, if a little heavy.
Brachiator
@C Stars:
Don’t really care for beef tongue. It’s been in a cow’s mouth.
I do, however, like ox tails. But not on pizza.
Redshift
@Another Scott:
Hear, hear. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us.
Immanentize
@laura: I will add that I love Pressley, supported her and hoped she would win* (she is in my next-door district). But Mike Capuano was a very very good liberal Dem congressman. He wasn’t a hack. He had seniority and was lsated to take over a powerful committee. Pressley won, YAY! But the district set aside a very good congress guy and lost clout. Good in the long run, but face facts, in 10 years, if they survive, Pressley, AOC, Omar, etc. will all be the “entrenched establishment.” And targets for the surely white guys writing the comments above.
*I still wish she would not ask those “just answer yes or no” questions in committee.
rikyrah
Raw Story (@RawStory) Tweeted:
Smile drains from Kamala Harrisâ face as Meghan McCain butchers her position on the border â and then she pounces https://t.co/ebqIt26Gxx https://twitter.com/RawStory/status/1149716567271325697?s=17
NotMax
@Brachiator
GOVCHRIS1988
@OzarkHillbilly: Here’s the thing, those facts didn’t matter when she ran against Clay in 2018. Look, this is politics, and we’re in an era where lies seem to rule the day, which is why we have a wide load imbecile in the White House right now. I don’t hate Cori Bush, I don’t even like Lacy Clay, but I want progressives, especially white progressives to learn that just because YOU like someone, doesn’t mean that person will beat the guy thats been a long time congressman, especially a legacy like Clay.
Cori Bush has a great personal story, but she’s connected with Justice Democrats, a group many find to be a bunch of know it all gentrifiers that don’t respect anybody older than 35 and believe that picking a pie fight with a respected House Speaker is good politics. If Cori Bush wants to actually win, she needs to put that group of quacks at arms length and invest her time in meeting the people of her district and touting what she would do, without mentioning Clay.
Immanentize
@Brachiator:
You do know where they have been, yes?
Quinerly
@TenguPhule: add bourbon. Soak for weeks, sliced in your great aunt’s Tupperware, sealed tightly. Top with syllabub. Serve with home made egg nog made with Ancient, Ancient Age Bourbon and raw eggs/whipped cream.
(I have certain areas of expertise. Did someone say “heavy?”)
Immanentize
@ArchPundit:
Totally the Same!! But of course, completely different. Where do you live? I will bet 100 green balloons not in that district. I will also bet you have never set foot in it.
Redshift
@TenguPhule: I read that at his extremist confab yesterday he was gloating about Schwarzenegger failing with The Apprentice, so I assume he was talking about Arnold “dying” when he took over as host. Focus, people. Not every idiotic-sounding thing he says is actually idiotic enough for another round of psychiatric speculation.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@GOVCHRIS1988: Yup.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Quinerly: Thank you. This topic is BS. Letâs focus on defeating the rapist-defending, child-caging Republicans.
Is Rep. Clay a Republican? No? I didnât think so.
Iâm not opposed to competitive primaries, but we have limited resources, and 2020 is an âexistentialâ election for our beloved and wounded country.
Priorities, people!
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: I have no use for BS bros and their disruptive and divisive tactics. YMMV.
Immanentize
@Quinerly: New theory Q. Mistermix is just trolling you personally. What did you or Poco ever do to offend him?
Quinerly
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: personally, I think it was a shit disturbing post. I’m not for weakening the Dem Party with this Justice Democrats BS. As someone typed up thread, thanks, Scott, for doing the heavy lifting on that bit of research. Putting it so succinctly.
Quinerly
@Immanentize: see my comment tucked under yours.
Buckeye
Cori Bush’s primary battle against Clay was part of the Netflix documentary Knock Down The House:
I’ll add that I’m one who thinks that even, perhaps especially, safe Dems should be primaried, it’s not supposed to be a lifelong, hereditary position.
Brachiator
@Immanentize:
Oh yes. My comment was a bit… tongue in cheek.
Jay
Meet your next head of the Office of National Intelligence.
lamh36
SMH…I’ve got bigger things to worry out right now, but I’ll just say, even if I didn’t read the byline, I’d already know which FP wrote this post.
So the content of it does not surprise me one damn bit.
Carry on…I’ll just say this…if you have a problem with the CBC based solely on them being “establishment” then I can’t have a conversation with you…PERIODT
Oh and fuq you for just dismissing all of the CBC has “establishment’…the Congress is still majority White last I saw…it took years for the CBC to gain the clout they have and ya know why…because unlike Bernie-bros like you…the voters that come out to vote for the CBC members can be counted on to come and vote Dem each and everytime.
this says to me that Justice Democrats like yourself, think those predom Black votes are too stupid to understand their own damn votes…so us progressive betters have to show them the right way…fuq that.
Immanentize
@Brachiator: ouch That was almost NotMax worthy.
lamh36
Oh…and John Lewis has been a memer of the CBC for decades…is he gonna be primaried next?
Maxine Waters have been calling or Chump impeachment and fighting the fight OPENLY against Chump since the beginning…is she gonna be primaried next?
Getting rid of the establishment CBC folks don’t do shit all for their states and districts, except stip them all of the senority in committee that could be an advantage to their districts…
Immanentize
@lamh36: QFT
Fight Republicans. Make THEM spend money.
satby
@ArchPundit: Lipinski has been hard to beat every year because the district ends up having votes split between multiple challengers. The purity leftists never support any regular Democrat primary challenger, the Republicans put up a vote splitter dark horse, etc.
Lipinski isn’t particularly popular, but he squeaks in because the opposition continually won’t coalesce around one good candidate.
It’s made me insane for decades. And it’s what I think of when the Justice Dems decide they need to primary people not ideologically pure enough to suit them. It can be a recipe for failure.
Eljai
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Priorities yes! If organizations have money to burn, they should use it to register new voters, work to ensure that voters are not robbed of their right to vote, help out Democrats in tough swing districts and help flip the Senate. I am completely open to discuss primarying after we defeat the fascists.
QUINERLY
@lamh36: ?
kindness
Maybe the reason Justice Democrats (I do not like that name, too Teabaggy to me) are going after moderate Democrats is because a Freedom Democrat knows they would be crushed in an election in an toss up district (D +1, R+1). So it probably makes sense to focus there.
The optics are still ugly. You have a group of ‘Democrats’ who are cannibalizing other Democrats. They aren’t expanding our representation. And when you add the unseeming fact that they seem to go after black Democrats….well that is not good optics is what I think.
I wish our party was fighting Republicans with the same vigor some of our party goes after our own. Especially when as a party Democrats only control the House. We don’t have the Senate, We don’t have the Executive. We have the smaller share of the State legislatures. It’s just what the Tea Baggers did to the Republican party really. And when you bring the CBC into the picture, you know they have to be pissed. We are supposed to help them.
I don’t think this is how we win anything. I think this is how we lose.
satby
@Immanentize: be good at your job, gain experience, advance to a position of responsibility, and become disposable because you’ve been there too long and you’re “establishment”, especially if any legislative efforts you’ve worked on haven’t turned out as progressive as some self announced group says they should have. Yeah, that sounds like an attractive proposition.
satby
@Immanentize: right? My district for decades, it’s been an especially sore point for me. Lipinski is worse than his dad was.
burnspbesq
@rikyrah:
This white boy is with you 102 percent.
Justice Democrats are as interested in justice as Barr, and as Democratic as Wilmer. Racist, misogynist bros.
Maybe just once we can have a non-circular firing squad, and they can be the guests of honor.
kindness
One more thing. These Justice Democrats seem to be the Bernie wing. Bernie has terrible numbers for minority voters. He does not help us with them. So setting his flying monkeys on safe (black) Democratic seats really ignores a whole bunch we should know not to ignore.
Elie
@kindness:
I wish our party was fighting Republicans with the same vigor some of our party goes after our own. Especially when as a party Democrats only control the House. We donât have the Senate, We donât have the Executive. We have the smaller share of the State legislatures. Itâs just what the Tea Baggers did to the Republican party really. And when you bring the CBC into the picture, you know they have to be pissed. We are supposed to help them.
I donât think this is how we win anything. I think this is how we lose.I wish our party was fighting Republicans with the same vigor some of our party goes after our own. Especially when as a party Democrats only control the House. We donât have the Senate, We donât have the Executive. We have the smaller share of the State legislatures. Itâs just what the Tea Baggers did to the Republican party really. And when you bring the CBC into the picture, you know they have to be pissed. We are supposed to help them.
I donât think this is how we win anything. I think this is how we lose.
Libraryguy
@rikyrah: How is it possible that *everybody* is wrong except for these purists? They drive me nuts!!!
chopper
@C Stars:
i’m sure i could find a recipe for putting pizza on breakfast cereal, doesn’t mean it’d be any good.
ArchPundit
@Immanentize: Lived there for 18 years. Bite me. I’ve covered that hack’s ass for 12 years as a blogger and have seen his slime ball team up close.
ArchPundit
@satby:
The Republicans are irrelevant in IL-3. The last guy was a literal Nazi. The challenge is Speaker Madigan who has the last working machine, but even at that, Newman just about got him last time. She’s making another run and is well funded. A slight uptick in LatinX votes and Lipinski is toast.
I don’t know if Cori can beat Clay, but a guy who specifically sided with Republicans to not just have a safe district, but ensure another Democratic district was done away with is not liberal, progressive, or a small d Democrat. He’s a hack and needs to go.
Lipinski and Clay are the ones to primary though–they are both safe districts so what is the harm?
ArchPundit
I’m fascinated that the people who think poor Lacy should be left alone aren’t addressing what he and Cleaver did in redistricting. It was a horrible example of caring about reelection–which an alternative map would have still favored Clay strongly–over the party. He wants to be lazy and a hack. Don’t let him get away with it.
James E Powell
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I am, too. The association with Sanders and especially Sanders’s supporters is not a positive. More specifically, I care about beating Republicans. After that, we need to care about making sure we beat them again in the next election. Not one effing thing of significance is going to change politically until we beat those bastards eight times in a row.
When I hear Justice Democrats talk, I don’t hear that they consider beating Republicans as their top priority.
Amir Khalid
@Brachiator:
I don’t understand this, just as I don’t understand those who believe chicken feet are gross. By the time they are served as food, both beef tongue ans chichen feet have been washed and cooked.
NobodySpecial
Don’t like these Justice Democrats. Don’t think they matter in a D+29 district, either.
One point I want to make, though, is that a very popular entrenched State Senator not far east of m y location got primaries by a kid who had zero chance, who lost….but then got elected next go round and ended up being not only a pretty good state Senator, he then got the lucky break of his life and became Senator….and then President.
We should never be afraid in super safe districts of young people moving in and defeating entrenched incumbents. Two points to that matter: If he’s a good incumbent, he’ll win handily, and secondly, if he’s that good of a candidate in such a safe seat that’s been in the family for five decades….he shouldn’t need national help.
Elie
We have to keep our eyes on the prize, people. I have no way of knowing what all these so called well intentioned groups really want but I am highly suspicious of their motives and am not interested in the Khmer Rouge experience for Democrats. I hold them responsible for what they break, though if past is prologue, we still have some of Putin’s buddies on the left (Green Party), running around free and easy after all the damage.
OAC better watch the company that she keeps. I know that I am feeling pretty intense about this and I will not be in a forgiving frame of mind if some slinky little squad fucks us up — knowing of course that this is what Putin would love (not sayin that’s who is behind some of this but as I said, I’m a suspicious person with so much on the line).
Ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Advanced age is 42?
Sorry I’m having a little trouble understanding that at 70, what with 10 of my friends passed away in the last 2 1/2 yrs and all of whom were younger than me.
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid: I saw some story about chicken feet a year or so ago. Apparently they’re hugely popular in China and the guy from the chicken company was saying they would love to find a way to create 4-footed chicken…
People are weird. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
I’ve heard Maxine Waters speak live and she has absolutely no fucks left to give. I couldn’t believe what I heard coming out of her mouth, but I liked it a lot. She should be a hero to any liberal. A true gem, a person of character and well the grace part she left home that day. Given who she is I believe that she was absolutely correct to leave the grace at home.
Ruckus
@NobodySpecial:
I like your style.
This is a great response. Just because someone has been in a political seat a while does not make them the best candidate, nor best representative of the people. 50 yrs ago my representative was a member of the John Birch Society, but his constituent service was beyond reproach, and my experience with his office was great. But I don’t know how he would have been if I wasn’t white. I suspected not great.
plato
@lamh36: It’s election time. So, you can expect such trollish threads from berniebro mistermix.
Missouri Buckeye
@Ruckus: If Lacy Clay (yes, he’s my rep) said 10% of the things in public Maxine Waters said, I’d be happy.
I’ve really tried to avoid calling him lazy, because he’s black and I wanted to avoid the stereotype, but it really can’t be helped in his case. He’s hardly ever in the news even here, and he is *our* rep!
Unfortunately, Cori Bush had some health problem right before the 2018 election, and I think it really hurt her in the primary. Even so, she still got 37% (including me).
No One You Know
@Mary G: Aw. That’s a very nice- looking cat. Peace, Burns.