He's better at this than everyone else. https://t.co/gvB65w8gfH
— Malarksist Revolutionary (@agraybee) January 11, 2020
Biden worked the silent protest into his speech: 'This new Republican party, I’ve been the object of their attention and affection for a while. You saw just now. I know what it’s like to have my surviving son maligned.'
— Cleve R. Wootson Jr. (@CleveWootson) January 11, 2020
The worst thing a heckler can do with Biden is give him an opening to talk about his family, because if that comes up people are going to vote for him out of sheer sympathy.
— Malarksist Revolutionary (@agraybee) January 11, 2020
Political twitter was briefly enthralled by this New York Review of Books essay from Irish columnist Fintan O’Toole. Then the rush of events carried it away, but it’s still (from my perspective as someone who grew up in the same Irish-Catholic milieu, not too many years after Joe) worth reading:
Mourning becomes Joe Biden. “I have found over the years,” he writes in his recent best-selling memoir Promise Me, Dad, “that, although it brought back my own vivid memories of sad times, my presence almost always brought some solace to people who have suffered sudden and unexpected loss…. When I talk to people in mourning, they know I speak from experience.” …
Joe Biden is the most gothic figure in American politics. He is haunted by death, not just by the private tragedies his family has endured, but by a larger and more public sense of loss. Richard Ben Cramer, in his classic account of the 1988 presidential primaries, What It Takes, wrote how even then it was a journalistic cliché to define Biden by the terrible car crash that killed his first wife, Neilia, and their daughter, Naomi (and injured Beau and his brother, Hunter), in 1972, shortly after Biden was elected to the Senate at the age of twenty-nine. Cramer refers to the “type that fell out of the machine every time they used Biden’s name: ‘…whose life was touched by personal tragedy…’ Joe Biden (D-Del., T.B.P.T.).”
Even now, as Hunter Biden’s name is threaded through Donald Trump’s impeachment hearings, there is a ghost behind it: Hunter is Neilia’s maiden name. Trump’s preoccupation with Hunter’s presence on the board of the Ukrainian energy company Burisma hinges on a reality that is certainly worthy of scrutiny: Joe Biden was, as he recounts in some detail in Promise Me, Dad, deeply involved in the Obama administration’s relations with Ukraine, and it seems implausible that Hunter’s position with Burisma was merely coincidental. But the frenzied inflation of this story, like so much that involves the Bidens, is freighted with both dread and grief. The dread is Trump’s (arguably misplaced) fear of Biden as a competitor for the presidency in 2020, an anxiety that became a manic fixation that has led to his impeachment. The grief drives Biden’s fierce need to protect his living son, not just for himself, but for Hunter’s dead mother and brother…
But the indivisible counterpart of this heritage that O’Toole *doesn’t* stress, oddly enough, is the defiant joy we are raised to embrace despite the terrible inevitability of failure and loss. Biden, everyone agrees, is popular because he’s always hung in there, continuing to grin and politic and speechify no matter how often or how deeply he and his party are wounded.
In this election season, the idea that We will go on, because there is no choice, and because we know from experience that we have survived terrible events before… is no small promise.
There will be a LOT of unironic takes that Biden taking the nomination came out of nowhere, not to speak of the inevitable DNC conspiracy theories, when this was in hindsight the most boring foreseeable thing ever. https://t.co/Jw7geHjA2O
— veto players stan account (@Convolutedname) January 10, 2020
personally, i don't care if Biden wins the first 4 or none of the first 4. but idea that he could is *not* a storyline you're going to see amplified in the press, which desperately wants a long, protracted primary bc it means more content.
— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) January 10, 2020
Jeffro
Pretty psyched for a Biden Presidency! PUMPED. UP.
The memes are going to be totes awesome. Biden not taking Barack’s call’s ’cause he’s not cool enough, etc etc.
The whole majority is sick, sick, sick of trumpov. Why not put Uncle Joe in for four years, and then he can hand things over to his VP…
Steeplejack (phone)
Every time “Where’s Hunter?” comes up, I want to see Biden (and the Democrats in general) blaze away with both barrels about Trump’s corrupt, worthless spawn. Talk about fish in a barrel!
raven
I knew Betty’s thread was getting dangerously close to being a, gasp, football thread.
trollhattan
@Steeplejack (phone):
Numerously strategically placed “Where’s Tiffany?” signs could be a hoot.
Kent
My favorite Biden is actually this one: politics.theonion.com/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-driveway-1819570732
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: So talk about football there. Jesus, you don’t have to come up to the latest thread. When this place is busy, I can have multiple threads going on different topics.
zhena gogolia
Thanks for this, Anne Laurie. He wasn’t my candidate until Harris dropped out, but he is now.
Kent
If you want to talk football, Lawyers, Guns, and Money has MUCH better football threads anyway.
eclare
@zhena gogolia: Exactly the same for me. Harris will make a great AG.
Anne Laurie
@raven: Hand to goddess, I didn’t see Betty’s thread when I was scrambling to post this — thought you guys had been waiting for a new thread since forever!
(SORRY, BETTY… )
raven
@Kent: I gave up, it’s in the past here.
raven
@Anne Laurie: Nah, it’s no biggie. We’re talking cord cutting.
PsiFighter37
OT, but tough nonetheless…my grandmother has been suffering from dementia for at least 2-3 years; we are unsure of the exact diagnosis because she is a Christian Scientist, and we are trying to be as respectful as we can of her wishes. Recently, it sounds like she has had a couple occurrences of ischemic ulcers (basically, ulcers that cause open wounds in arteries in the leg), and it sounds fairly serious in terms of being infected. The initial diagnosis, from what I understand, is that even operating on it is a fairly low-probability event and would not necessarily help (she is 85 years old). So…my mom is flying out to see her tomorrow (she is in CA), and we should have a better idea of where things stand in a few days. Obviously, someone with dementia won’t last forever, but it sounds like this may be the year where she goes. She helped out a lot when my mom was a single mom with two mixed-race boys coming home from Japan. Definitely a diehard conservative – even sent me conspiracy theories about Obama running up to the 2008 election – but I love her to death, and the likelihood that this year is going to be her last has hit me like a truck. At least she got to meet her great-granddaughter once. We are supposed to go back out in March to visit…I hope she makes it until then.
FelonyGovt
I’m definitely warming to him. Harris was my first choice, but I would be fine with Biden. Maybe he’s what we need right now.
Baud
I personally think his last two months we’re his best months.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: I am finding myself sort of backing into supporting Biden. I started with just pushing back against some of false narratives that some people were pushing, and then I started to think that someone who will have immediate respect on the international stage might be needed after Trump’s shredding of everything would be a good thing, so here I am. I am open to other candidates, but….
eclare
@PsiFighter37: So sorry to hear that.
gene108
I think Biden will deliver a bit of calm to the White House, which we desperately need.
*********
The one thing that really strikes me about the 2020 primary is how exhausted we are.
I don’t think people care so much about an individual candidate, other than Bernie bros, than getting someone, who can defeat Trump. If they have policy proposals we like, it’s a bonus, but not essential
I know, I just want the primaries to be over with, so we can get around to beating Trump
Doug R
Is that his appeal to black voters, this underlying sadness yet determination to soldier on no matter what hits?
It does speak to their experiences.
Suzanne
Biden’s not my first pick, but he’s not my last, either. I can be okay with it.
SO! MOVING! TO PITTSBURGH! Colleagues and clients notified. Friday is my last day. New business cards are ordered! House goes up for sale February 1, so packing and purging are underway. Pods are booked. I am most nervous about selling my house. If anyone wants to buy a house in the Phoenix East Valley, or know someone who does… send them my way!
Also, I need a rental starting June 1. A 3- or 4-bedroom. If anyone knows a guy….
West of the Rockies
Well, according to a WP article today, Joe is the choice of black people As the guy who can pry the Trump Rump off the golden toilet of power. I was hoping Harris or Warren, but it could be worse. Joe will be a damn sight better than the orange menace.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Why can’t people just talk about football if they want to?
Baud
@Suzanne:
Congrats on the new adventure.
zhena gogolia
@PsiFighter37:
I’m so sorry.
eclare
@Suzanne: Congratulations! No more hibernating in the summer!
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
Since foreign policy came to the fore, he has looked better and better.
zhena gogolia
@Suzanne:
Congratulations! I hear good things about the city.
Anne Laurie
@PsiFighter37: I’m so sorry. It’s hard to lose the people you love at any time, but when they’re slipping away like that…
Your mom probably knows already, but it’s never a bad idea to remind her that you appreciate the both of them!
Steeplejack
@Suzanne:
Congratulations!
I’m glad you picked Pittsburgh. When the current place plays the “But we have such great plans for you!” card it always seems a little sketchy. And you always complained about the Phoenix weather. Pittsburgh will be much nicer.
Another Scott
OT, but related, Pharyngula – Death To Facebook!:
Familiar and maybe not so familiar stories. It’s a good read, and it’s short.
Cheers,
Scott.
Anne Laurie
@FelonyGovt: As long as Biden appoints a younger VP, I’m good with him taking the nom.
(Although part of my Irish-American heart remains convinced that he’ll blow it, because after all, tragic Biden flaw… )
Steeplejack
@PsiFighter37:
Sorry to hear it.
JPL
@PsiFighter37: How is the baby?
Baud
@PsiFighter37:
That’s all you can ask for.
gene108
@Suzanne:
John G. Cole might know some people. Email him through the “contact a front pager” option, or another FP’er, who can get a hold of him. He’s pretty close to Pittsburgh, and might know someone.
Also, try if someone can contact geg6. She is also around the Pittsburgh area.
James E Powell
I’m not saying Joe Biden will be or should be the nominee, but if he is, Trump will have no response to Funeral Speech Joe that doesn’t blow up in his face. The press/media disdains Democrats, but they love Funeral Speech Joe.
gene108
@PsiFighter37:
Sorry about your grandmother.
Hope you can see her again
Anne Laurie
@Suzanne: Congratulations!
catclub
I still want to support Warren. She has the hatred from the right crowd of people. Unfortunatley that crowd includes some of the press. We know, given the likelihood of 60 Democratic senators, that the only things that pass under her administration will be centrist.
Suzanne
@Steeplejack: I’m super-excited. Nervous about selling the house. I am sad to leave my current company, and the other opportunity with them would have been good if it worked out, but it involved an acquisition of another company in CO and they couldn’t be sure it would happen, so I didn’t want to to take a chance.
Also, we decided to rent for the first year, and that will feel weird. I will feel somewhat unsettled until we decide where to live and buy.
catclub
@Another Scott: What took so long.
Mr. Kite
It’s funny to see the mental bargaining process about Uncle Joe’s nomination chances going on in our side of the internet’s.
Yeah me too. My bargaining thought is that he is the only Dem who might be able to lower the political temperature as Prez by giving the radicalized and deluded MAGA crowd an emotional off ramp, without blood letting. Wishful thinking and no doubt.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@eclare:
Why would she want to do that? It’s a dead end job and she’s already done it on the state level.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
Congrats on a decision finally made!
Just no Stillers gear, m’kay?
WaterGirl
@PsiFighter37: That’s so hard, I’m so sorry.
Suzanne
@PsiFighter37: Oh no, I’m so sorry. That is brutal. Hugs to you and your mom and grandma.
Another Scott
@PsiFighter37: I’m sorry. Remember the good times, and best of luck with the time that remains.
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@Anne Laurie:
Jesus, it never occurred to me Biden could pick an older VP. “See how perky I am?”
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: Big congratulations!
You must be really good at your job to have two great offers, but your current employer all but begging you to stay.
So is this the one that’s more exciting, with possibly less money, or more money, but possibly less exciting?
Suzanne
@trollhattan: No Stillers gear. The only major team sport I really ever watch is NBA, and they don’t have that there. I guess I have to decide if I’m cheering for the Cavs or the Sixers. Ughhhhhh.
geg6
Yeah, I’m reluctantly starting to wrap my mind around Biden being my guy. SPW is where my heart is and no one has voted yet, but I think that’s where we’re headed. And I am more okay with that than I thought I’d be. I don’t get to vote until 4/28 and I’m sure he’ll be in the ballot and in the lead. If I’m right, he’ll have my vote.
Was just contacted this week by an official of the local Dems asking me to serve on one of their many committees. He sent me a list of about eight or nine different ones. I haven’t had time to read the email more carefully and consider what my skills and experience would bring to one of them. But I’m going sacrifice my time, and probably my sanity, and serve. We need our local Dems to start getting shit done. I’m sick of the Trumpists around here, running almost everything now. I have to do something.
Steeplejack
@Suzanne:
It’s a good decision to rent, so that you can get the lay of the land, check out neigbhorhoods and schools, etc. Plus you won’t be feeling the pressure to “buy a house right now!” at the same time you’re starting a new job. Half the people on Love It or List It are disgruntled snap buyers.
eclare
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Because I think she really does want to prosecute people in this administration. Plus could be a better stepping stone to the next level rather than being one of one hundred.
geg6
@Suzanne:
Oh, yay! Welcome to the Burgh! We’ll have to plan a meetup. Maybe we can talk Cole into gracing us with his presence!
johnnybuck
@raven: so the Dawgs got the Newman kid. How do you see that playing out?
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: Both offers were more than I’m currently making. One was in Philly, one in Pittsburgh, then my current company came back with an offer to possibly have me relocate to Denver if they acquired a company my friend works for. I turned down the Philly offer and then this week declined the Denver thing, because it’s still too “soft” a plan.
Kent
As an older white guy, I hesitate to speak for black voters. But as someone who has worked in a wide variety of white working class jobs over the years (commercial fishing, trucking, construction) I think there is probably an instinct that the Sanders (and to a lesser extent Warren) focus on economics and class solidarity rings hollow.
Anyone with the slightest sense of awareness who has worked in the blue collar and working world knows that it is the racism of blue collar co-workers and supervisors that is often the greater problem in people’s lives than Sanders “blah, blah, blah its the 1%” answer to every problem. Billionaires aren’t what are keeping many people of color down. It’s the racist white co-worker who gets promoted ahead to supervisor and favors his/her buddies that makes life hostile.
Biden, for all his clumsiness seems to get this. Working with Obama for the better part of a decade no doubt helped. This country has a LONG LONG history of social programs designed overtly or covertly to just help white people. From the GI Bill to farm programs to the FHA and history of redlining. A lot of Sander’s shtick comes across as the 2020 version of those old racist programs, especially with his insistence that it is inequality and not race that is the problem in this country.
Warren, who I like, is very earnest and I’m sure understands all of this. But her movement and following is very white liberal “do-gooder” and I’m not sure how she escapes from that. It isn’t something you can turn on a dime. It takes a lifetime of building relationships. Something both Clintons as well as Biden seem to understand. Sanders and Warren not so much. And Buttigieg not at all judging from the reporting of his management of the South Bend police department and choice of the planet’s absolutely whitest upper class job as a management consultant.
Suzanne
@geg6: Thank you! I am incredibly excited. Would love to have a summer meetup after we get settled in!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@eclare: The career path after being AG is working in the private sector, her political career would be over.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Congratulations! The housing market is weird now, but you might be surprised how easy it goes.
My step mom owned a weird, one of a kind place in NC (big house, 15 acres of land, pond, etc.) that she needed to sell [last year] after my dad died. When they bought it, 20+ years ago, it had been on the market for over a year, probably because of the location – all the neighboring houses are small and old and so forth – and they paid 25% less than asking.
But she got a very good offer for it in just a few weeks and closed much earlier than she expected and feared.
It only takes one buyer. ;-)
Best of luck in Pittsburgh!!
Cheers,
Scott.
jeffreyw
I’m in the anybody but Trump camp. I have refused to pick a favorite lest I get snotty with someone who chooses some other Democrat. I’ve seen the “my guy or fuck you and everybody else I’m moving to Canada” kind of thing take off like a bad mold. Biden will get my enthusiastic support if he is the eventual nominee. Same for any other Dem.
Old Dan and Little Ann
@Suzanne: I love the burgh. Other than the horrible yinzer accent of course.
Bruuuuce
As long as we have an open political thread, I wanted to point out New York State is doin’ it right, with regard to registration and voting:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Suzanne: Congrats, good on not going with the Denver thing, never take a counter offer from a current employer.
Kent
Maybe to serve her country and not her own ambitions? AG is an enormously consequential job affecting everything from criminal justice to voting rights in every corner of this country. I mean yeah, I like Harris for VP but AG is a pretty damn important job too.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: Congrats!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@PsiFighter37: Sorry man, that’s tough.
geg6
@gene108:
To Suzanne, I don’t know anyone with an open rental, but depending on where your firm is located, I can certainly give advice on what neighborhoods and suburbs are best. Let me know if you want an opinion.
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: @Suzanne: I’m with Steep. There may be some awesome neighborhood you will want to live in that you never could have known about if you were buying now. Or the reverse, some collection of ultra conservatives that you don’t want to be anywhere near you.
eclare
@?BillinGlendaleCA: There was talk about Holder running, IIRC his family was against it.
mrmoshpotato
What happened to the post about The Professor?
satby
@Suzanne: congrats!
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Curious why you say never take a counter-offer from your current employer?
At the University here, you basically had to go out and get another job offer for them to give you a big jump in salary. I always thought that was bullshit. If I’m worth that today, why wasn’t I worth that last week?
I’m a big believer in paying people what they are worth.
Another Scott
@Kent: Interesting perspective. Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
mrmoshpotato
@Suzanne: ? Congrats!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: She is already in a rather consequential job.
MomSense
@eclare:
She already turned it down when Obama asked. She and Beau were close friends. I’m hoping she’s the Veep pick.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m thinking Biden looks increasingly likely. I’m ambivalent for (past) policy and pragmatic reasons, but pragmatism will win out for me this year. And as for policy, I’ll beat the drum again: He’ll be as progressive as the Congress allows or forces him to be, and I think he’s far and away the most likely candidate to have coattails
I didn’t know Obama has asked to serve as AG. I’d bet on her as Biden’s Veep, and I was wondering if that might start leaking at least now that Warren has been campaigning with Castro
(I started to type, seems to have picked, but that’s probably overstating things. And is it just me or are people kind retroactively finding Castro a lot more impressive since he dropped out?)
satby
@WaterGirl: because in the corporate world if you got an offer from another place and ask / are offered a counter offer when you submit a resignation, they assume you’re a short-timer even if you accept their counter. So if cutbacks come, you’ve put yourself on the chopping block. And often your career there stalls for the same reason.
Zelma
@Suzanne:
I think you’re going to like Pittsburgh. I lived there for 40 years and the only thing that I found fault with is that it is too far from the ocean. So now I live 2 blocks from the beach. Oh, and the weather. It’s going to be a huge change for you, coming from Phoenix. The only US city with more cloudy days than Pittsburgh is Seattle.
But it has lots going for it – a great arts scene, lots of good restaurants, nice people, great health care, and of course, the Steelers and the Penguins. (We will not talk about the Pirates.)
If you need information about school districts and neighborhoods and commute times, let me know.
eclare
@MomSense: Thanks, did not know that.
Another Scott
@jeffreyw:
rofl! Hasn’t it though!!
Yeah, I occasionally look at some of my comments from long ago (e.g. before Obama announced) and wonder what I was thinking? It’s funny how people can get so wrapped up in supporting someone they have (and will) never meet, while refusing to give someone else on the same team the time of day
Politics is slow. We don’t need to rush it. We need to do what we can, but reality has to happen on its own timescale.
Cheers,
Scott.
Anne Laurie
@trollhattan: Nah, what I meant was, even though she’s my heart’s pick, I don’t want Biden offering Warren his VP slot.
(Don’t think we need to worry about The Other Old White Guy Now At the Top of the Iowa Polls… even if Biden offered, it would be treated as an insult by both the candidate & his fans.)
Nor do I wanna know what kind of aging anonymous ‘reasonable men’ all too many Media Village Idiots will truffle-hunt, if Joe looks to be the final nominee.
There’s tons of exciting younger Democrats would be great back-ups for Uncle Joe, even apart from Kamala / Booker / Castro / Klobuchar / Gillibrand / etc…
Suzanne
@geg6: My office is in East Liberty. We are looking for a Spanish immersion school for Spawn. We identified one in a neighborhood on the south side, but it seems to be a magnet. I have a goal of being mortgage-free within ten years, and five would be even better, so affordability is a concern.
trollhattan
Once Ukraine had access to the 737 wreckage they quickly figured out a missile had exploded just beneath the cockpit. Guessing that combined with the surveillance from several nations Iran decided they had to admit shooting it down.
Today’s demonstrations show the people are pissed at being lied to, even with the US role in the whole mess. Remember when our policy was to nurture and draw Iranian moderates into the world community? Good times.
satby
From Froma Harrop
no idea how to fix that blockquote, sorry
Gelfling 545
@FelonyGovt: One of his great strengths is that Trump is terrified of him. Wasn’t my first choice. Or second. But Jesus, miles better than what we’ve got in there now. Yeah, his son is kind of a mess but we’ve all got THAT relative & I doubt Biden means to plant him in the WH à la the Trump crime family business.
WaterGirl
@satby: That makes sense. Sadly.
Anne Laurie
@MomSense: After Warren / Harris or Harris / Warren, Biden / Harris has been my dream pick for the last many months.
trollhattan
@Anne Laurie:
Warren as VP would be a huge waste of Warren IMO. And I can appreciate the dynamics of the pair would be odd, since she’s got policy chops that frankly, far outshine his. Not necessarily a good team dynamic.
Stacy Abrams?
satby
@WaterGirl: oh, and my calendar came today! Thanks ?
john fremont
@PsiFighter37: I’m a lurker here, but I wish you and yours well through a difficult time
Anne Laurie
Castro always had wonderful proposals, but the general impression was that he just couldn’t get traction for them. As the VP choice of a better-positioned candidate, those proposals look a lot more viable.
Especially since so many of his ideas intersect beautifully with Senator Professor Warren’s!
satby
@PsiFighter37: it’s a terrible time for your family, sorry. But if there’s any way you can move your visit sooner you should try, if only to have the comfort of seeing her one last time in case anything happens.
Kent
@Omnes Omnibus: When it comes to issues of immense consequence, the Senate is basically going to vote along the lines of the 60th most liberal Senator who is somewhere around Pat Toomey or Rand Paul. Pretty much any Senator that California elects is going to vote identical to Harris when it comes to really big and consequential votes.
The AG on the other hand makes immensely consequential decisions every single day. And has the ability to affect the direction of the country in far more consequential ways than any Senator ever can.
In many ways, the AG and Secretary of State are far more important jobs than VP.
I’m not necessarily promoting the idea that Harris is the correct or best pick for AG. I’m sure there are lots of good candidates. I’m just pushing back on the notion that it is a inconsequential or dead-end job. It is one of the most important and powerful jobs on the planet. You would go from supervising a Senate staff of about 35 people to running the Justice Department with over 114,000 employees
These days with more and more dysfunction in Congress the executive branch looms larger and more powerful. That is something both Trump and Obama understood.
JPL
@WaterGirl: If you think it is okay. I don’t think Skepticat has commented in months. He lost a lot on Abaco because of Dorian and I’m curious how’s he doing. Since you have the magic keys could you email and just tell him we’re thinking about him.
johnnybuck
@Anne Laurie: Mine too. And I feel like that’s the strongest ticket.
geg6
@Suzanne:
The housing market here is very reasonable, though it has gone up a bit the last few years. If you want city living, it can be pricey (again, depending on the neighborhood). So you want to live on the east side of the city because of work in East Liberty. City or burbs?
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: Senators, especially when they are in the majority, can have a major impact by championing issues and leading investigations as committee chairs. I am not saying that being AG is unimportant, but a senator could easily chose to turn it down to continue doing the job they were elected to do. I am also uncomfortable with the tendency that people have to try to cast the unsuccessful candidates for the nomination in the supporting roles of the new administration. There are a lot of good people out there.
satby
@JPL: he commented on rumara’s overnight thread on her kitties. But if we could get a fundraiser going for him, I think they’re feeding 56 cat survivors after the hurricane. I’m sure help would be deeply appreciated.
Steeplejack
@Zelma:
Where do you live now, so close to the beach?
CaseyL
I was enraged at Biden during the Clarence Thomas hearings, and bemused that a combination of hair plugs + plagiarism charges were enough to make him drop out in ’88. I got over my anger over time, and in time to appreciate him as Obama’s Veep.
I loved him as Obama’s Veep. He was perfect. He never evinced any resentment at being in the number two slot to someone so much younger and less experienced than he; was astoundingly effective in the role; and delighted me with his badass humor. I have no personal animosity toward him at all; all my worries about him as a candidate center around his propensity for gaffes, atavistic behavior and comments, and his age.
The last few months, though: he’s sharp, witty, expert at needling the Orange One, handles hecklers really really well… even his comments about working with the GOP, when you read the whole comment and not the parts cherry-picked by the Woke Brigade, are damning with the faintest of praise. And his ads are good, too.
Plus, I really like his wife. Dr. Jill would be an amazing FLOTUS.
So as much as I might prefer SPW for policy reasons, I’d be happy as a clam with Joe as the nominee. The GOP/MSM will smear him from here to tomorrow – Hunter and Ukraine will be a constant refrain, no matter how debunked that “scandal” already is – but, here’s the thing: They will do that to whoever the nominee is – and Joe’s failings are already baked in. People already know his failings. They know Joe. They like him, by and large.
And the Woke Brigade can go to hell. Honestly, I hate them more and more every time they open their mouths.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anne Laurie: your occasional reminder that a lot of people have some really strange ideas about politics
Haven’t seen one of those second-choice polls in a while, but for a while Biden and Bernie were consistently 1 and 2 for a lot of people
trollhattan
@Kent:
Hillary did parlay SoS into a presidential run after leaving the senate, but she’s rather unique WRT name recognition. IMO the Harris campaign erred in not effectively getting her out in front of the entire nation and her national profile is nothing like Hillary’s. She has time to fix that.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Sanders as anybody’s #2 is a comical thought. “Hey Bern, can you please stop drilling into the hull and help steer this thing?”
JPL
@satby: thank you for letting me know. Living in an area of total destruction has to be terrible. It wasn’t that long ago and the islands are already forgotten.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: Harris has a long future in politics, I think
@trollhattan: I literally, not Biden literally but literally literally, laughed out loud.
eclare
@trollhattan: Haha, so true!
Kent
@trollhattan: If Mayor Pete can parlay a local municipal position into a presidential run, then an 8-year stint as a transformational AG when it comes to criminal justice and voting rights should be work too. Or maybe that sort of thing only works for white people.
A truly transformational AG has the ability to visit every corner of the country and make a real world difference in people’s lives everywhere. That is no small thing. Especially as I expect nothing of consequence to come out of the Senate in the next 4-8 years.
Again, I don’t know if Harris is even the best person for the job. But don’t dismiss it as inconsequential. It may be the most consequential domestic job in this country. Especially for people of color.
Kent
Send him to Kentucky to rise up the 99% to bend Mitch McConnell to his will like he says he can do.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: I still think that we should not raid the Senate to fill positions in the executive branch. We are where we are partly because left of center people have concentrated too much on the executive branch and Congress has ceded power to the Presidency. Perhaps we should let some of the stars of the Senate stay and do their jobs.
raven
@johnnybuck: I’m hopeful!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@CaseyL:
Hear and hear. I started a comment about The Other Old White Guy (h/tAL) and deleted it, cause even I get tired of the fighting, but I wandered into the wrong twitter thread earlier today and it caused me some fear, and much loathing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@WaterGirl: It shows lack of loyalty to your current employer, it rarely works out.
WaterGirl
@satby: That was fast! :-)
raven
@Kent: Transformational when? My lawyer peeps in the bay area really really dislike her.
eta, Ok we’re talking about the future. Too many fucking active threads.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: Do they say why? overly aggressive prosecutions?
johnnybuck
@raven: Kinda takes some of the sting out of Fromm leaving no doubt!
WaterGirl
@JPL: Is this not Skepticat?
(I added paragraph spacing to make it more readable.)
Kent
@Omnes Omnibus: I absolutely 1000% agree with you when it comes to red and purple state Senators and Governors. That was one of Obama’s biggest sins.
I guess you would really have to ask Harris if she wants to be the next Dianne Feinstein though.
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yea, that for sure.
raven
@johnnybuck: The whiners are still whining. Beck could be really good too.
WaterGirl
@satby: @JPL: Duh. Satby until you said that about the 56 cats, I didn’t make the connection.
I DID already write to Skepticat today to say that you were hoping for a link to contribute to the cats, and to say that some were asking today about Skepticat.
Will report back if I get a response.
Kent
I’m not talking about Harris per se. Just that the AG position is enormously consequential and powerful. And has the potential to be transformational for good or evil (Barr and Sessions). Especially in this day and age of executive power and Congressional stalemates.
Cameron
@Suzanne: I think you’ll love it. I’m from Iron City originally, although I haven’t lived there for years. It’s a very cool place, and PA is an amazing state (if you don’t mind my pimping it a little bit: uncoveringpa.com/). Lots of wonderful places to rent or buy, either in the city or the suburbs.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: So they’re not keeping you because they want you; they just don’t want the inconvenience of you leaving on your terms. Got it.
So glad I left the university 10 years ago to start my own consulting business, and never looked back. No I pick my clients as much as they pick me.
Ken
For certain definitions of “content”.
Ohio Mom
Cameron@ 125: Thanks for the link. As an ex-pat New Yorker, i take Ohio Dad and Son to visit my family every year or so, and we are always looking for things to make the drive through PA entertaining — the tunnels and Hershey got old many, many years ago.
Kent
@Ken: I don’t even understand this. Because the 2020 elections aren’t even going to get good until it is Dems vs Trump and the fireworks really start. As long as we are talking about Warren vs Buttigieg it is boring as hell for everyone who isn’t Democratic Party cognoscenti.
JPL
@WaterGirl: Thanks.. Satby said he commented also.
Jinchi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Biden and Sanders on the same ticket would be insane and not just because they have completely different ideologies.
A VP’s main job is to take over if the president dies in office. There’s a pretty significant chance that neither of these men would survive to the end of a second term.
JPL
@WaterGirl: Whoa.. That’s really good news and thank you again.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
pop-eyes emoji indeed! (When I copied and pasted the text, it showed the pop eyes emoji, I was wondering if it would post. It did not)
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
(‘◉⌓◉’)
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Another Kamala fan who’s ready for Joe!
Biden/Harris 2020
Gin & Tonic
@Jinchi:
Gvg
@JPL: he commented today. Maybe on the cat thread. I’ll see if I can find it.
gsp
Doesn’t JB think GOP will be fine again when Trump is gone (hmmm, Garland?) and wouldn’t he be open to having a Republican as his VP? Not overly inspiring in getting the vote out. I don’t know, I think he’s still stuck in the 80s and 90s and offers nothing for this century.
Anyway, hope everyone is well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gsp:
oh, for fuck’s sake
Chris Johnson
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, just because a troll asked him that and he Bipartisanned it like a fool doesn’t mean he would literally be open to a Republican as a running mate. That’s a bonkers suggestion designed to do just what it did, solicit a weak answer that could be used against him.
‘Fuck no’ is, I guess, too much to expect.
japa21
@gsp:
No and No. Happy now?
Anne Laurie
@gsp: Biden said he would theoretically choose a Repub for his GOP, “but I can’t think of anyone off hand.”
That’s the political equivalent of “Of course I love your Miracle Whip Marshmallow Surprise Jello Salad, Aunt Cordelia, but there’s so many wonderful dishes at this family potluck that I’m just full to the brim already”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“used against him” by whom and for whom? A whole lot of voters, including a whole lot of Democrats, like that bipartisan shit. And if the deluded fucking pissant adolescents (of all ages) of Bernieworld aren’t motivated to get out and vote by a second term of trump, they deserve a second term of trump, but the rest of us don’t.
“I can’t bring myself to vote for Biden cause he said that thing that time.” Sadly, I suspect there are a non-insignificant number of people who would say that. I hope they all get hemorrhoids.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why would you wish that on innocent hemmorhoids?
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wouldn’t trust BS as a VP. No way is he a team player.
debbie
@Suzanne:
Congratulations!
Zelma
I see that geg6 suggests that working in East Liberty might suggest living in the East Hills. (The fact that the suburbs of Pittsburgh are identified as East Hills, South Hills and North Hills tells you something about Pittsburgh’s topography.). But I think the best school districts are South and North. I don’t have a feel for where the city schools are these days.
The fact is that Pittsburgh is a pretty compact urban area (unless you go far out in the suburbs) and the roads are pretty dreadful. So I’m not sure there is much advantage to moving to the east. You will discover that geography is destiny in Pittsburgh and where ever you live, you are likely to face a tunnel, a river or a mountain unless you live in the city itself. There are actually some very nice city neighborhoods but they are pretty expensive.
Whether you can find a good Spanish immersion program is an interesting question.
Cameron
@Ohio Mom: Hope you’ve had chances to explore Philly, too! I lived there almost 50 years before moving here to FL, and I still didn’t see all the stuff there. If y’all are beer fans, make sure to stop at Troeg’s brewpub in Hershey. As far as I’m concerned, the Trogner brothers make the best beer in America.
Mnemosyne
I really didn’t want Joe to run, and he was maybe my #4 or #5 choice, but he’s growing on me and I think he could be a decent consensus candidate.
He and Warren are the only two remaining candidates that I could picture taunting Trump to his face and then laughing at him when he gets mad, so that’s an extra bonus. And I do think that his familiar face will be reassuring to our allies overseas.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Judge Judy is a surrogate for Mike Bloomberg. I think I’m gonna hate 2020
“but who is Judge Judy supporting?” asked nobody on the fucking planet
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne:
Kinda where I am. I could actually see Bernie getting mad and telling trump off to his face. I can also see him losing thirty states to trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Part of Biden’s appeal now is that he radiates decency. I think people are craving a bit of that.
Kraux Pas
@Omnes Omnibus: Personal decency and supporting policies that will result in people being treated decently by their government are, of course, separate matters.
Another Scott
OT, RollCall:
It would be really, really interesting if Moscow Mitch gets his way in the start of the trial, but the House sends over more articles… Of course, the GOP leaning press would scream “foul!!”, so there are risks in doing so.
Cheers,
Scott.
japa21
@Kraux Pas: In this case, both reside in the same person in Biden.
Kraux Pas
@japa21: Umm, no. Biden has had a long history of favoring the financial sector over working people and locking up minorities for questionable reasons. I haven’t heard him propose anything to change this and actively defend a law that Trump is abusing to harass people at the border right now.
If the lesson we took for 2016 is we need someone lamer with a much longer history of questionable votes, that’s a problem. If the lesson we took is we need a white candidate with a dick, we’ve already lost.
patroclus
If Biden had run in 2016, I would have voted for him over Hillary Clinton. I think he would have run a better campaign and I think he had a better chance of winning (certainly Pennsylvania). This time around, however, he started out for me as about #6, but most of the others above him have dropped out already or haven’t caught fire, so he’s probably #2 right now behind Klobuchar. She’s actually the lead Democrat on many important issues in the Senate and she aligns with me politically on virtually every issue. I actually think she would make the best President out of the current field. Joe wouldn’t be bad though; he’s a mainstream Dem on virtually all issues and I definitely prefer him to either Sanders or Warren (although I would certainly support either if they actually win the nomination). If she doesn’t win or come close in Iowa, though, Amy seems likely to fade pretty quickly, so I’m probably going to end up being for Biden even though I cringe every time he opens his mouth, just waiting for the inevitable gaffe or strange comment which I don’t want to have to defend.
He’d make decent court appointments and sign whatever liberal legislation actually passed (as would the others). His strongest suit is that he is actually way more experienced in foreign policy than any of the others and wouldn’t have to start with a steep learning curve.
Kraux Pas
MisterForkbeard
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Honestly, I think someone like Harris would do wonders for fixing all the damage Sessions and Barr did to the DOJ, particularly to the civil rights division.
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Biden was originally my 4th or so choice. Harris > Warren > A Rotating 3rd Choice > Biden.
My feeling about him has always been “He’s got good and bad parts, but he’d almost certainly win. He’s a decent dude even if I disagree with some of his policies”, and I think he’d try to do his best to uphold Obama’s legacy.
I’d almost like it if he took Harris as his VP and then stepped down after a couple years to give her a running head start in 2024. But that might hurt her overall chances. Dunno, and I doubt he’d do it unless he decided he was starting to fail mentally.
patroclus
@Kraux Pas: No he didn’t, but Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et. al. started that war and did the actual lying and Biden’s vote on the AUMF in 10/02 wouldn’t have made the difference, so blaming him for the war is a leap in logic that I’m not going to make. The AUMF vote, at the time, presupposed a further UN Resolution which never happened. It’s a drawback, but he learned his lesson in the Obama Administration which actually ended that (phase of the) war. So he kind of corrected that mistake with 8 years of solid diplomacy-based foreign policy. Did any other candidate do that?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patroclus:
Like watching a drunk friend walking on ice. I so want him to get across safely!
Kraux Pas
It’s not just him. I’m still mad at everyone who took that vote. If he and his contemporaries weren’t such blithering fucking cowards, we’d be in a lot better shape as a nation right now.
Yeah, he couldn’t have stopped it alone, but if the caucus had made an organized effort, it may have made a difference. All of them were too afraid of being painted as traitors by the Bush administration. So they chose the other set of consequences instead. Iraq and the Middle East are still paying for it. We taxpayers are still paying for it. He should still be paying for it too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kraux Pas: you crazy kids are gonna do it again, aren’t you? give us another fucking term of trump
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, he is already looking for his “too pure” excuse.
Anne Laurie
I have fantasized about a Biden / Klobuchar ticket, actually. Subliminal pitch: Do you wanna work with kindly Granpa Joe, or do you want Mean Ol’ Aunt Amy to come over there and get you to behave yourself, young ‘leftists’?
No, seriously, I think they could do a fine good cop / bad cop routine. But there are higher-profile candidates who can offer just as much, so it’ll probably remain just another thought experiment.
patroclus
@Kraux Pas: Well, you can certainly remain mad if you want – they were cowards. Only a few – like Durbin and Kennedy and Byrd – voted against it. But I don’t think it was the decisive moment at all – to me, it was clear that Bush was going to get his war regardless of what the Senate Dems did or did not do in 10/02 on the AUMF vote. Focusing on that misses the big picture and somewhat relieves Bush et. al. of the real blame for what they did. The baldfaced whoppers came from them; not Biden or the others.
Kraux Pas
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Still an idiot, huh? I voted for Hillary in 16 and had planned to right along. My main issue was harassment by people like you who refused to have any serious discussions about drawbacks to your personal preferred candidate on a forum largely dedicated to discussing politics.
If a candidate can’t stand up to some light scrutiny in a friendly place, the problem isn’t the people trying to scrutinize that candidate.
If only there were a candidate that the people here found it socially acceptable for me to beat up day in and day out for years and years…
Gin & Tonic
@Kraux Pas: Huh, I’ve got a suggestion for one…
Kraux Pas
@Gin & Tonic: I bet you do. Well, while that one hasn’t done anything (let alone have a long history of consistently doing things) to earn a decade’s worth of ire from me, he’s still pretty damn near the bottom of my list.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kraux Pas:
what an odd thing to wish for
Kraux Pas
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Was it a wish or a call-out?
gsp
@Anne Laurie: Fair enough but an odd thing to say nonetheless. For a party that repeatedly gets run over by the other side (e.g. supporting terrorists over Gold Star families) what would be wrong with saying how fundamentally off they are with Democratic ideals, so no it isn’t going to happen. Perhaps ask why no Republican gets asked that. His candidacy worries me, goodness, he campaigned for a Republican candidate in Michigan Rep so hope you can see the hesitation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gsp:
you have a remarkable capacity for hyperbole
gsp
@japa21:
No?
huffingtonpost.ca/entry/joe-biden-republicans-trump-2020_n_5cff47b6e4b06d839dc4150e?ri18n=true
politico.com/story/2019/05/14/biden-republicans-trump-1321377
Hard to get excited should he be the D candidate.
gsp
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
FFS? Point being?
gsp
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t think it’s hyperbole (GOP ran ads of his praising Upton). I think these things are legit to raise and speak to his grasp of politics in 2020. Just don’t think it’s necessary to be the Washington Generals anymore.
rikyrah
@Suzanne:
I hope that move is safe
rikyrah
@PsiFighter37:
Sorry for your family ??
Ruckus
@PsiFighter37:
Always tough to lose grans. Hope you get to see her
frosty
@Suzanne: Late to the thread, but congratulations on the change and moving to Pittsburgh. My mother grew up there and my oldest son is there now, so I’m rediscovering it again. It’s a great place, way better than Phoenix. Good move!
sab
@Suzanne: Good luck. Welcome back to gray sky green tree country.
Aussie Sheila
OT I know, but as a matter of interest, I would love to see a thread about how a Dem President in 2021 would be able to ensure legal accountability for tRump and his entourage. How would s/he be able to avoid the charge of prosecuting their political enemies?. Exactly how does the US polity get to hold the powerful to account? If Biden wins the nom and the election, will there be a constituency powerful enough to ensure that the grift, graft and complete corruption of the last regime is held to account?
I am cautiously optimistic that tRump can be beaten electorally, but I believe that the capacity for the US centre left to ‘clean house’ will be lacking. This time there can be no ‘looking forward not back’. The whole world has been held hostage to this clown fest. Either it cannot happen again, or it will. Empires die that way. I know that this issue is not top of the mind for people here and I get it. First things first is get the A hole out. But what comes next is important . Treaties, Agreements and the rest appear to rely on a handful of f wits in three or four states . How is that a stable base on which the US middle class can rest its claim to ‘democratic world leadership’ ?
sab
@Aussie Sheila: Agreed
Racer X
“In this election season, the idea that We will go on, because there is no choice, and because we know from experience that we have survived terrible events before… is no small promise.”
Very nice writing Anne.