I know that Betty posted something about Bloomberg below, but I had this written up already, and it’s from a different angle, so consider it an open thread:
Either you examine the skin of the elephant in the room, or you ignore it. Let’s take a look at two things about Bloomberg:
First thing: Bloomberg says he’s going to sell his company if elected. The proceeds will go to his charity. Better than Trump, but Bloomberg has different goals than Trump. Trump is a not-really billionaire who wants to make money directly from the Presidency. Bloomberg is a real-deal billionaire who wants to advance his agenda and keep people from saying mean things about him. He’s already shown that his big contributions will keep nonprofits in line. His charity will do the dirty work for him if he’s elected, and that would be ugly.
Second thing: With Sanders now holding down a pretty good lead in the national polls (9+ points), surging in Nevada, showing momentum in South Carolina, and looking like a lock in California, everyone on that stage except for Bernie and Bloomberg have a very difficult mission: hit Bloomberg and hit Sanders. They need to show that Bloomberg is weaker than his ads, and that Sanders has serious issues that make him a bad choice as a general election candidate.
When you have six debaters, five moderators (including Lester Holt and Chuck Toddler, bleagh), and two hours, things are going to be bad for the back of the pack. The moderators will probably lavish the new hotness, Bloomberg, with attention and softball questions. Warren might get to say her name, once, and Klobuchar might get out a sentence if she interrupts someone.
Bloomberg and Sanders are the only candidates that are free to do much tonight. Sanders has that freedom because he’s ahead. Bloomberg has that freedom because of his money — he doesn’t have to worry that donors will drop off if he screws the pooch tonight. If Bernie and Mike are smart, and neither of them are dummies, they’ll both pivot from attacks on them to attacks on Trump. They will look like general election candidates, and feed the base the red meat that they really want: meat that’s topped with a MAGA hat.
This is what’s going to hurt the other candidates: they must attack to distinguish themselves and bat down the front-runner and the media darling. But in doing so, they aren’t going to show how they can beat Trump.
That’s a long way of saying the second thing about Bloomberg, so let me restate: he fucks up the debates because this would be the natural time for a Bernie-alternative to stand out in a debate performance. But his presence prohibits that from happening, unless he’s to be that alternative. I think Warren could fit that spot, but good luck to her making that happen in tonight’s shit show.
Another factor is that if I’m Amy Klobuchar, I have to at least considered the position of VP to Bloomberg. She seems to me to be the obvious choice: Midwesterner, female, young and healthy, tough as nails. I have too much respect for Klobuchar to think she would pull punches, but I also have too much respect to think that she’s not considered and even planned for the possibility of VP Amy.
Elizabelle
I think your take on how the debate might play out is well reasoned.
I shall hope against hope that it goes better than that.
Cacti
Now that Biden is fading, Bloomberg is the new great Satan of the BJ cool kids club.
Served
Warren is going to come out training her fire on Bloomberg and she’s not going to hold back. She’s held off going after any of the other candidates thus far, and focused on the extremely wealthy as the true obstacle to solving many of our major issues.
Now that a real live billionaire has sauntered onto the debate stage, based on his money alone, I am sure that she sees him as a big piece of red meat. She can point to any of her policies and say “and here’s why Mike Bloomberg doesn’t like that.” She doesn’t have to rely on hypothetical billionaires anymore, she can say exactly how much wealth Bloomberg is spending on his campaign, and how little of his fortune it actually is.
Soprano2
We are so screwed……..how did this happen with such a great slate of candidates to begin with? I suppose Republicans in 2016 asked themselves the same question.
Bill Arnold
@Served:
Hope so. I’m sure it hasn’t escaped her attention that one reason Bloomberg entered the race was that she was doing well in the polling.
MattF
@Soprano2: Good question, I’ve wondered about that also. Something broke, it’s unclear just what.
Cacti
And the internet left will burst into applause…and then still vote for Bernie.
mad citizen
Good commentary. Agree with Soprano2: we are so screwed. Hoping the women stand out tonight and the men actually notice.
Great to hear the 59 is young, being that age myself.
Biff Baxter
I want a do over.
Shalimar
Sure, Klobuchar is relatively young, but don’t forget to subtract a week from her life expectancy for every time she has eaten her Hot Dish. That could add up fast considering how often a Midwestern politician goes to social events.
oldster
One reason that I hate Bloomberg is that his entire case is based on abuser-logic:
That man over there is bad and he beat you up. So you need to find a bigger man who is better at beating people up, and do whatever he wants. The bigger man who is better at beating people up will protect you from the bad man who beat you up before. Oh, and the bigger man will probably beat you up more, too. But he’ll protect you from that first bad man!
It’s repellent. It is undemocratic. It is unworthy of a free people possessed of self-respect.
Yes, I’ll vote for Bloomberg over Trump if it comes to that. But if it comes to that, America will be in deep, deep trouble.
Shalimar
@Cacti: There has to be some way the Internet Left and MAGA Right can go to arenas nationwide and fight it out to the death while the rest of us live normal lives and vote against whichever dwindled bloc wins.
texasdoc
@Soprano2: I agree. I am so depressed that Bernie is in the lead. I think there would be a historic beatdown of Democrats, on the order of Mondale’s loss. And if he did win, he doesn’t have the executive skills to do the job well, or the persuasive skills to get Congress to go along with him.
Hoodie
I would disagree. Bernie has to go after Bloomberg by definition because he’s a billionaire, and it will seem weird to single out Trump over Bloomberg in his economic class based arguments. Moreover, Bloomberg has the resources to go the distance and deny Bernie the nomination on a first or second ballot, so you’d want to knock him out (or at least down) before he supplants the other, weaker centrists, who may have to drop out after Super Tuesday. Warren might go after Bloomberg (she’s already telegraphed that), but she may not get much time to do so. The smart thing for Klobuchar and Buttagieg (and even Warren) to do would be to go after Bernie, because there is an opportunity to prove to non-Bernie voters that you’re better suited to do that, while at the same time proving your centrist bona fides. You don’t gain anything by going after Bloomberg because he’s immune to donor dropout issues; you just have to hope that his appeal wears thin and leaves you in place to take on Bernie. In addition, if you’re really a “centrist,” then you’re also predisposed against Bernie getting the nomination because you already think that he will lose in the general, so Bloomberg would be more acceptable. And, as you point out, all of the centrists would be candidates for various VP and cabinet slots in a Bloomberg admin. Not the same with a Bernie admin, if that is even possible.
Emma from FL
Great. Democrats are going to end up with the quasi-Democrat with a mediocre track record or the billionaire with control issues.
This country has irrevocably gone nuts.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@oldster: That’s a good analysis of the id-level mentality driving some of the Bloomberg support.
@Hoodie: You make a good point – we’ll see how it goes tonight if I can bring myself to watch it. My guess is that I’ll snap it off as soon as Chuck Todd asks a dumb question, which means as soon as he asks his first question.
The Moar You Know
If Sanders wins the primary, we lose the general. Period. The Dem will need a 7-8% advantage in the popular vote to win the electoral college, and Sanders has never, and will never, have those numbers.
joel hanes
@Soprano2:
how did this happen with such a great slate of candidates to begin with?
Biden asphyxiated the campaigns of several more-promising asprirants before breaking his political hip in a series of falls.
Cacti
My ideal scenario would be that having Bloomberg physically present enrages Bernie so much that he has an episode of whatever heart condition he’s concealing from the public.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@mad citizen: I hope so too, but am betting on questions that demand detailed answers, and plans, aimed at only Klobuchar and Warren and no follow up questions or probing questions for anyone else on stage over the age of 70. Also lots of interrupting and some yelling. I would personally love to see Klobuchar say screw this and answer exactly how she wants and loud as she wants and interrupt as much as the men so. Just to see what would happen.
cleek
Narrator: Sanders is not ahead
JPL
I want to beat trump and I don’t think Wilmar can get the job done. He endangers the house also. Those videos supporting Castro and communism are going to hurt.
WaterGirl
@The Moar You Know: Maybe we need to have two votes in the primaries – the person you want as president AND your strategic vote.
It will never happen, but it would be really telling.
That’s what the pollsters should be asking though: who in your party do you most want to see as president, and who are you thinking you will cast your vote for?
I think that’s why the polls have been so unpredictable. There’s no way to know what is driving the vote, and what happens in that moment in the voting booth. In that final instant, do you vote for the best candidate for president? Or does fear win out? Or prognostication… so you vote for the one you think you can win?
JPL
@cleek: As long as there are so many in the race, he is.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@The Moar You Know: Yes, I know things can change, but Bernie does have a consistent 8-9% over Trump in national polls. So I don’t think you’re correct that “Bernie can’t beat Trump”. He can. So can pretty much all of our choices.
MomSense
@Served:
I hate this primary. God help me I wish she would hold her fire on Bloomberg and go after Sanders instead. If he wins NV and then CA he will end up the nominee and this will be a disaster. There is so much oppo waiting for him to be the nominee and negative opinions on socialism are in reverse crazification percentages. We are looking at a McGovern type blow out.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@joel hanes: Nice summary.
MomSense
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
National polling is meaningless. He is the worst candidate in the individual state polling.
Butter Emails
Outside of Bernie and Bloomberg, I suspect Warren has the best chance of pulling a victory if she can get the time. If she can smack down Bloomberg she automatically burnishes her standing with the “whoever” can beat Trump crowd. If she does better at it than Bernie there is probably a couple percent she can take back there as well.
TheronWare
Hehe I was listening to those Indie lyrics at the gym this morning on Apple Radio ha!
MisterForkbeard
@cleek: His entire campaign strategy was to keep his base really engaged and barely grow it but let the rest of the field fracture until he was the leader.
This is what has happened, incidentally. It’s bad for the party and his election chances, but he IS currently ‘leading’ due to the rest of the field splitting all the support.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JPL: Martha McSally is already running ads linking Mark Kelly to Sanders. It was a headline yesterday that Sara Gideon is one point ahead of Collins, so… tied. But neither the High Sparrow nor the Faith Militant seem to think the Senate matters.
I hope Klobuchar gets her mean streak going and reminds the old fool, and maybe a few others, of his “Look out the window, Mitch” plan, and asks if he still stands by it.
MisterForkbeard
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: There were some interesting polls of JUST the expected battleground states a few days back.
Biden led by 8 or 9 points, Bloomberg by 2, and Bernie by 1. The rest of the candidates tied or were underwater by 1 point.
I think that number will drop quite a bit – it’s the reason I’m still somewhat Biden-curious, because despite all the shit that happens the rest of the country STILL likes and trusts him. Bernie is still basically untouched – Dems don’t want to go there, and Republicans can’t wait to run against a self-described socialist.
Cacti
Bernie is the one Dem candidate on whom the Rs have consistently held their fire for 5-years now.
Have you ever stopped to think there might be a reason for that?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MisterForkbeard:
just as no one, including Bernie or Putin, could have predicted how Bernie would catch fire in ’16, I don’t think Bernie could have foreseen the curveballs of 19/20– Buttigieg, Yang, Bloomberg– that fractured the field. Things just keep breaking his– and trump’s– way
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: If the past is any guide she won’t. She sounded harried and overwrought in the debates. Her punches just don’t land. I guess I am not the target audience.
joel hanes
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
I should not have to remind you that national polls do not select the President.
The Electoral College does, and it overweights rural, conservat ive states.
JPL
@MomSense: Sanders is leading in CA.
schrodingers_cat
@Cacti: Russian stooges hang together.
gene108
@Soprano2:
1. Fear of Trump winning a second term.
2. Biden pushing most of the other not-Bernie centrists out of contention – Harris, Booker, Castro, Gillibrand – because of his name recognition, and how well he polled against Trump last year.
3. The primary is too damn long. At this point voters are annoyed, tired, and want a candidate to challenge Trump.
We’re picking a candidate primarily in response to #1, except for Bernie supporters, who really think he’s going to usher in a revolution.
joel hanes
@Cacti:
Bernie is the one Dem candidate on whom the Rs have consistently held their fire for 5-years now.
He’s also the candidate for whom ratfucking crossover Republicans have been voting in states with open Democratic primaries.
schrodingers_cat
@JPL: Polls are in flux right now. There are many undecideds. BS under performed his polling average both in Iowa and NH. He is not inevitable.
The Dangerman
I watched the BS town hall last night (most of it anyway; I tuned in a bit late and tuned out a bit early), I definitely get the appeal. The Dude is a fine salesman … but where I tuned out, finally, was the fact that, among all the fine things he wants to do, I didn’t hear a single thing on what he’s done. Maybe I missed those things, as, again, I came in late.
One of the questions was why does Trump seem to want BS to be the challenging nominee and BS, obviously, avoided the question. But it’s obvious why Trump wants him. It would be on to Term 2 and selling Ivanka to carry on the family name in 2024.
oldgold
In my opinion, tonight the “elephant in the room” is Bernie’s health.
The man is not well and will not be able to do the job he is applying for over the next 4 years.
Tonight someone needs to address it directly.
schrodingers_cat
@The Dangerman: He is a snake oil salesman in a rumpled suit and disheveled hair.
schrodingers_cat
@oldgold: His face is looking unnaturally red these days.
schrodingers_cat
OT respite: I love this tubby kitteh
West of the Rockies
Not a Mike fan, but at this point I’m grasping at straws. At least he takes climate change seriously.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@cleek: Are you nit-picking on delegate count or do you have a bigger point? Sanders is the front-runner right now based on polling, and all the other campaigns treating him like he’s the front-runner. Look at the recent polls and polling averages.
@MomSense: Click some of the polling links in the post and tell me that Sanders is behind in the state polls. He isn’t. I just checked some more. He’s edging out Warren in Mass. He’s slightly ahead in NC. Pretty good lead in Texas. Small lead in Virginia. Pretty much ahead in every Super Tuesday state that has enough polling for a 538 average.
The Dangerman
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
Maybe not now. Trump will debark him under a stream of shit that will be other worldly.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Cacti:
I’m briefly wading in despite my now nearly crippling levels of medically treatable anxiety:
Bernie can win the nomination. He cannot win either the popular vote or the EC.
He loses by near McGovern numbers – come November, when he mumbles a dispirited concession speech on a stage in front of his stunned biggest fans after a huge (and legitimate) rout, the asshole purity progs can be pointed at and told with finality “he never would have won. You stupid fucks never would listen.”
Of course, at that point, we’ll have our own institutionalized version of PRI cemented into place for generations and a shattered Democratic establishment, but everything will be more pure and righteous, right?
Cheryl Rofer
Biden has a new ad out. Maybe the debate tonight will be more interesting than I’m thinking.
Jinchi
(Reposted from thread below)
I ran across this interview earlier today, where Bloomberg describes his opinion of Warren. He clearly became motivated to return to the race when Biden started slipping and Warren started surging and gave her a sort of backhanded compliment: he thinks her wealth tax policies are both “not possible” and “wrong” but also believes she wouldn’t be the first person to use this strategy to win a nomination, before changing course once elected.
The more interesting point is his description (at about 6:00 in) of people who ‘ran in the primary saying one thing, on completely different thing to win the general election and on a third set of policies when they are in office.’
He also slaps back at the idealism of Greta Thunberg about 15:00 in.
This doesn’t reassure me that Mike is sincere in his current proposals.
Or that his VP pick will be chosen with the Democratic electorate in mind.
Ivan X
This is an open thread so I just want to share despite being 99% lurker here (but still, for over a decade) that I’m getting to perform a full set of the songs I’ve been writing for the last year and half (and for the first time in my life) Friday night and I’m tremendously excited and nervous about it. It’s my first real solo show.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Jinchi:
I could see him picking some never Trumper unity VP. Romney? Jeff Flake? The skies the limit.
Elizabelle
@Ivan X: Good luck to you! Hope your solo show goes swimmingly.
Maybe Amir Khalid will end up an internet sensation guitarist too, in time.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I know. Bernie is an extinction level threat. We have to stop it.
I am not being a Mean Girl. I think he will be unelectable (yes, why else has the GOP held its fire, for years now?) and dog only knows what he will drag in for a cabinet.
No, no, no, no.
There are “tipping points” in life where you need to make a change and do something very differently in order to survive and thrive.
Elizabeth Warren understands the world we live in, and she will be an effective leader.
Sturgeonmouth
Big Thief… Hell yeah!
Mike Bloomberg… Hell no!
Since it might have been missed in the last Bloomberg open thread, this is a great look at how Bloomberg’s money corrupts our democracy from a guy who “worked against him, covered him as a journalist & worked with his top aides”.
glory b
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Today’s polling had him beating Trump by only 4. Actually the one who wins this is Biden, he was the only one outside the margin of error.
Bloomberg also polled better than Sanders.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: How do I know that she won’t throw her delegates to BS in the event of a contested convention. She has always been to deferential to him.
JPL
@download my app in the app store mistermix: IMO He goes with Stacy Abrams.
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: Great ad! Now it’s time to introduce Sanders to the party.
Scamp Dog
@Ivan X: Good luck!
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: The Pod Save America guys read part of Bloomberg’s so-called “endorsement” of Barack Obama in 2012.
His “endorsement” was super critical of Obama! The Pod guys thought it was worse than no endorsement at all. The part they read out loud was an abomination.
Bloomberg is not our friend.
glory b
@Cacti: I also saw that Bernie’s campaign director said they will be doing more Fox News interviews because they believe Fox treats BS more fairly than the other networks.
Now, where have I heard that before?
WaterGirl
@Ivan X: Go you! Congratulations.
MisterForkbeard
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Ew. I was going to write about how I don’t think that’s possible, and then…. yeah.
Bloomberg is smart enough to know that he’d still get a large majority of Democratic votes if he did this. If he thinks he can peel off enough Republican/Independent votes for it to pay off, he’d probably do it. Doesn’t have any ideological reason not to.
dww44
@Soprano2: but… you must be wrong! Several weeks ago, David Leonhardt of the NYT wrote about the unnecessarily long primary season ( I agree;it’s a total turnoff) and that it’s given us an incredible weak array of Democratic nominees. I don’t think they are weak, I do think they are weakened by an incessant and overly long campaign season which diminishes their strong points and puts a magnifying glass on their weak ones.
My husband and I’ve tuned out, ,long before either of us have cast our primary votes. This unremitting focus on the process that only cable news could like, does no favors for our democratic republic. It is why Trump became the GOP Nominee. I’m old enough to remember picking nominees in a smoke filled back room at the conventions. It doesn’t look nearly as bad as it was perceived to be.
Marcopolo
@Soprano2: Strikes me that each succeeding election over the past few decades the national political media has shifted the emphasis of their coverage from what the candidates say they will do to how the candidates are polling against each other.
im pretty sure some of this is it’s easier to cover the horse race aspect of the election. I’m pretty sure this shit is made easier by how much easier it is to get certain kinds of information (like donor numbers) now than it was prior to info being computerized. I suspect some of this is the hollowing out of the news industry (fewer reporters, skinnier newspapers). Also part of it is the decrease in attention span of the average person in the age of the internet—most folks see a meaty information rich article a few thousand words long with dread; a lot of my friends only read a headline and then talk about something like they read the whole article.
Anyway, I guess the point I am getting at is the average voter is a lower than ever information voter, the places that might have once supplied good information are seriously compromised, and a low info voter is a lack of conviction voter whose rationale for supporting anyone is skin deep & likely to change at a moments whim. When that’s the case & we are living through a time with an existential threat of a president & the the “media” and their gut is saying we need to win at all costs, show me who can win, we get a primary process that is seriously messed up.
With the caveat that the primary process is often seriously messed up (1968 anyone?), so another factor is our culture telling us repeatedly that now is the most extra special important time ever in history (which aside from maybe climate change is obviously not true).
All I know for sure is come July we’ll have a nominee & I will support whomever that is no matter how dissatisfied I might be with them. In the meantime, I’m voting for Warren in 3 weeks, because I am supporting her with conviction, am doing what I can to promote her candidacy (and those of the other folks I know & like running in 2020), and worrying about it seems like a luxury I don’t want to spend time or energy on.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Elizabelle:
His cabinet will consist of some aging hackey sack kicker in a knit cap for Secretary of Defense, a 23 year old bank teller for Treasury, and Noam Chomsky for National Security Advisor….
glory b
@WaterGirl: They tend towards being Bernie supporters, have from 2016.
It was also suggested that someone use the video of Bernie saying that someone needs to primary Obama, his first term was SUCH a disappointment.
Run that in the south and see how much African American support he holds on to.
Jinchi
@Ivan X: Have a great show.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: Wowser!
Can I watch that ad all day every day? I guess I would have to stop occasionally to eat and sleep.
I generally have a pretty low tolerance for ads, and the longer ones often lose me before end. I was shocked to see that this one was 90 seconds – I didn’t get the least bit squirmy and I feel like I could have watched an even longer version.
Pollyanna speaking here: Maybe Bloomberg will end up being the kick in the pants that will result in all our real democrats taking their campaigns up a notch.
WaterGirl
@JPL:
Yes and yes!
glory b
@Ivan X: How wonderful! Knock ’em dead!
WaterGirl
@glory b:
I agree with you that some of them are. But not all of them. Either way, it was apparently that 8 years later, they were still pissed about Bloomberg’s treatment of Obama. They said that Obama and Bloomberg had a complicated relationship, at best.
mad citizen
@Ivan X: This is huge, you will do great! Cue the Ivan X Experience.
joel hanes
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
our own institutionalized version of PRI
Or worse. Signs point to worse.
It looks as if I picked the wrong timeline to give up drinking.
MisterForkbeard
@dww44:
I think this is true. Our candidates are all still good ones! I have my doubts about Bernie, but even he is ‘fine’. Warren, Biden, Klobuchar are all good choices and would perform well in the general.
The primary process really encourages us to yell at each other and to magnify small problems with the candidates into career-ending faults.
JPL
Twitter is telling me that trump was pardon shopping again…
Julian Assange court appearance today- His lawyer mentioned a statement, that alleges former US Congressman Dana Rohrabacher visited Assange, saying he was there on behalf of the President, offering a pardon if JA would say Russia had nothing to do with DNC leaks.
Is this a quid pro quo, asking for Susan Collins.
MisterForkbeard
@glory b: I’ve heard something similar from some Bros I know. “Even Republicans treat Bernie really well and think he should be the nominee – that’s how bad the Democrats are!”
They really don’t understand it at all. Republicans do not want Democrats to win. They will attack ‘good’ Democrats and help weak ones. But no, the only people you’re allowed to suspect are… Democrats, who actually push for the stuff the Bros want.
Amir Khalid
@Elizabelle:
How can I dare disappoint such faith in me? Good luck with the show, Ivan X. I hope it leads to greater things.
Ksmiami
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: you’ll be happy to know I left an enraged message at the DNC today wrt the damage of Bernie’s run I hope it helps
MomSense
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
He doesn’t do well against Trump in the state polls.
J R in WV
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
But the polls are not indicative of actual voting so far. I’m not paying any attention to polling right now. I’m just contributing to the candidates I want to have a choice of voting for in the general election, Warren and Klobuchar. Was a Harris donor before she dropped out.
Even the ratfucking Republicans voting in open primaries can’t give Sanders a clear win!
MomSense
@Ivan X:
Hey that’s awesome!! I wish I could go see your show. I’m a music freak.
Mike in NC
I can just see FOX News inviting Bernie on every week to ask him about his great respect for Karl Marx and Fidel Castro.
glory b
@JPL:
Rachel Bitecofer said no matter who is the candidate, they need to pick her as VP. She said the most important thing is to bring out people of color, and to convince them to do what it takes to overcome the voter suppression efforts of the Repubs. She thinks Abrams is better at this than anyone else, including all of our candidates.
JPL
@Mike in NC: lol Maybe he’ll say he rather offer praise to the living.
UncleEbeneezer
Hit Bloomberg AND Sanders by pointing out that neither one cares about the Democratic Party. “This is not just about the future of the country, it’s also about the future of the Democratic Party. Raise your hand if your last electoral victory was as a Democrat” then look directly at Bernie and Bloomberg.
More Specifically-
Hit Bloomberg on his statements about the ACA and the fact that he’s actually shown significant interest in gutting Social Security and Medicare, in the past.
Hit Sanders on his toxic following and how they are the worst thing possible for the coalition-building that will be needed to pass legislation. Point out that they are just as infatuated with the man and not the Party (or it’s principles) as Trump supporters are. We’ve already seen what a cult-of-personality Presidency looks like and it’s not good. Also, the fact that Putin seems very intent on Bernie being the nominee, what does THAT say about electability? (if you really want to take the gloves off
This would be VERY high-risk, so I doubt any candidate will go there, but I’d kinda love to see it.
Baud
@Ivan X:
Excellent. You’re going to kill it.
tam1MI
Which is why I will happily vote for Bloomberg in the primary if it comes to that. We can survive and recover from Bloomberg. Bernie will destroy everything we have worked for, it will take us decades to to recover.
Served
Bloomberg and Biden at each other today, as Bernie skates by unchecked once again. This is like Round 12 of this and why we have had a revolving door of “frontrunners” since August.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
True, but Democrats hate their friends.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@MisterForkbeard:
This.
Another Scott
Relatedly, …
That is referring to Bezos, of course, but goes for all of them. Talk is cheap. The bazillionaires have all the money, so they should spend it to help save the planet (and to make things better it many more ways). And support sensible taxes. Vanity runs for President (or space tourism) aren’t fooling us.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@glory b: I’m a regular Pod Save America listener, and I don’t think they’re Bernie supporters now, nor were they particularly enamored of Sanders in 2016. They are Democrats who understand how delegate math, momentum and polling work, so they’re gearing up for the possibility that Sanders will win the nomination, in which case they’ll support him and try to get all of their listeners to do the same, considering the alternative.
jeeves
I predict Bernie wins the Dem nomination, then Bloomberg runs as an independent and wins in November. Dems take the House and Senate.
Cacti
This.
Bernie will leave the Dem Party in the same shape that Jeremy Corbyn left Labour in the UK.
Unsurprisingly, Bernie guaranteed that Corbyn would sail to victory.
J R in WV
@Ivan X:
First solo show! Congratulations, break a leg!
I performed piano with bass and drums back in high school, was a great experience. Drunk adults tipping us to play their favorite Sinatra … $20 an hour was big money for teenagers 55 years ago.
And we did it in spite of huge amounts of stage fright.
So you can do it, just take a deep breath and plunge in. If you forget where you are, just vamp until it comes back around.
rp
@UncleEbeneezer: Very well said. If Warren wants to win, she has to go after Sanders and show that’s she’s palatable to mainstream Democrats. Going after both him and Bloomberg for not caring about the party’s interests or core supporters is a great way to do that.
patroclus
Well, I’ll be voting for Klobuchar in the Illinois primary regardless of whether she’s still “in it” at that point, but realistically, I think it’s unlikely that she’s going to catch lightning in a bottle and clear out the non-Bloomberg non-Bernie field and somehow manage to pull this out. Tonight is sort of her last chance and, although, she’s a good debater, what I expect to happen is what this post lays out – she’ll largely be ignored and the moderators will instead focus on Bloomberg and Bernie, with maybe a little Biden thrown in. Bloomberg, despite not even competing in Nevada and South Carolina has just sucked up all the oxygen during what should have been a momentum gaining time for Amy.
So that’s my vote – Klobuchar regardless. But I’ll then have just a rooting interest. And if it comes down to Bloomberg v. Sanders, that’s a really tough choice because I have major problems with both of them (for different reasons). At present, but that could change, I’m probably more anti-Bloomberg than anti-Sanders. So I’m possibly going to go against the prevailing sentiments of this blog and be rooting for Sanders in that eventuality. Please don’t shoot me – I’m not really for Wilmer, but I just don’t want my party to go the way of the Republicans by nominating an ex-Republican plutocrat with whom I do not agree on many many issues.
glory b
@MisterForkbeard: Yeah, I saw that yesterday Trump was saying again that BS was getting screwed by the Dems.
Baud
@glory b:
And Bernie won’t correct him, just like he didn’t correct Trump in 2016.
schrodingers_cat
If Warren takes on BS in the debates I will consider voting for on Super Tuesday. Whoever takes on BS vaporware is who I will vote for.
JMG
It is noteworthy to me that on a day where TWO well regarded national polls (ABC-WaPo and NBC-WSJ) showed Trump losing head to head (some by narrow margins, true) to all named Democratic possible rivals, something Trump himself tweeted indignantly about, Nate Cohn, the Times numbers cruncher, tweeted “Trump is right at where he needs to be.” Cohn and the Siena poll he works with have consistently shown Trump stronger than any poll this side of Rasmussen, so he may be just talking his book, but he cited “Likely Voters and the Electoral College” as his evidence, neither of course are in evidence at all at this point. Bit by bit, the data gang is morphing towards the old Washington consensus of straight-line projection, that whatever happened last is what will happen for the foreseeable future.
Elizabelle
I wish we could get Obama to endorse a candidate NOW. Even if it’s not Joe.
Pick the one who can save the Democratic party from being torn apart by the Bernistas.
That is more important than remaining elegantly aloof until the voters have spoken, driven into panic mode by specious reporting and “polls.”
rp
@Elizabelle: I had the same thought over the weekend. I hate demanding that he be our savior, but he might need to act before it’s too late.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: She seemed very, very pissed off by him calling her a liar in the last debate. I don’t think she’ll let him off easy this time.
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
UncleEbeneezer
Another good piece by TheRoot.
Cheryl Rofer
@Elizabelle: Obama is starting to take on Trump. That’s important. I don’t see how he can weigh into the primary now without a lot of damage to him and everyone else. But he’s paying attention and starting to act.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@MomSense: OK, let’s look at the latest polls for swing states:
Michigan: Sanders 50/Trump 45
Wisco: Sanders 47/47 (Biden is 47/46)
Penn: Every Dem is whupped by Trump.
Ohio: Sanders either beats Trump or is tied, depending on the poll.
FL: In one poll, Trump beats them all. In another (better pollster), Sanders +6 over Trump, best performance of any Democrat.
So, it’s an open question whether Bernie can beat Trump, but those polls are looking pretty good for him. Outside of the b-j bubble, most dems will vote for whoever we nominate.
JMG
An amendment to my earlier post. Cohn’s tweet said “Trump is very near where he needs to be if he isn’t there already.” The rest about the LVs and Electoral College was accurately recounted.
Mnemosyne
@JMG:
Didn’t the WSJ-NBC poll leave Warren off of the head-to-heads with Trump even though she’s currently in third place with delegates?
Honestly, the polls have been so wrong so far that I don’t trust them at all right now.
Panurge
@texasdoc: Mondale was running against Reagan, who most people at least liked, even if they disagreed with him. McGovern was running against Nixon, who people figured was at least competent. This year’s nominee will be running against a historically unpopular, incompetent President that few people actually like.
Another Scott
@texasdoc:
In the metric that matters – delegates – ex-Mayor Pete is in the lead (by 1).
It’s still very, very early. Don’t panic.
Cheers,
Scott.
glory b
@download my app in the app store mistermix: After reading JMG’s post, I believe I was looking at the NBC-WSJ poll, I’m pretty sure I had msnbc on the television (where BS’s folk feel he’s so mistreated).
But they had all of them beating Trump, and only Biden outside the margin of error.
Which polls are you citing?
glory b
@Another Scott: I’ve said this before, she won’t fight the guy who is in her lane and calling her a liar, this doesn’t give me a feeling she could fight Trump.
BS (metaphorically) punched you in the nose, punch back!
Soprano2
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
This is exactly how I feel. The only virtue of a 40 state EC rout of Bernie would be I could finally say to his big fans who were too pure to vote for Hillary in 2016 “I told you he could never win, you fuckers. What are you going to do now, Trump will be selecting two more Supreme Court justices and half the federal judiciary will be unqualified Trump judges by 2024, but at least you got to be pure and vote for the Savior from Vermont. I hope that comforts you as you see everything you want become impossible for any future president to achieve, and that’s if we still have a democracy after 4 more years of Trump knowing he never has to face the electorate again. Can’t wait until he gets Congress to decimate Medicare and Social Security, and gets rid of the ACA for good.” Can you tell I’m still at the highest Defcon rating over this situation?
download my app in the app store mistermix
@glory b: I went to 538.com and just picked the latest polls for the states I named:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
Dems cluster around each other. It’s not like Sanders is 35 and Biden is 55 in the same poll. They’re all pretty close.
Now, I think a lot of those polls are out of date and that they don’t tell us much, but the false claim was made that Sanders is losing in state polls vs Trump. He clearly isn’t, that’s just what everyone in this bubble tells each other
Also, this talk of “McGovern” numbers is insane. There is a completely different electorate, against a completely different president, in a completely different environment. Back in ’72, there was a lot more crossover voting. Whoever the Dems nominate begins near 50% of the vote, nationally, no matter who it is. And on the EC college basis, McGovern won DC and Mass. That just won’t happen today. Generic Dem will win the West Coast, a good part of the NE, etc.
jl
@glory b: I think he is checking the fivethirtyeight poll aggregation. The poll he’s citing that has Trump whomping Democrat in Pennsylvania is a poll rated very low quality, and fro what I have seen, seems to be an operation designed to produce positive results for Trump, has a huge and consistent bias compared to other polls, even worse than Rasmussen. It often claims to represent ‘likely voters’ and that depends on their model of who will vote, so they can play games there. Previous high quality rated poll has Warren, Sanders and Biden all 5 points or more beating Trump.
I think polling seems all over the map because there is such a wide variation in quality of polling operations, and assumptions on turnout, who wants to respond.
Aurona
I think it’s wonderful that you are visualizing this as a white male democrat (I believe).
But I don’t see any thoughts to this visualization of what black women will do. If anyone knows the worse of the worse, they do. I’m sticking with them on their vote and will set my primary (3/10) as to how Super Tuesday went and vote accordingly. If one of the white candidates faulters, they will want The Next Best. I think I better stop lurking here for a while (*happily lurking since early ’00s*) until I see Harris on the ticket.
schrodingers_cat
@glory b:You nailed it. She may be academically gifted but she does not have the political skills nor the spine of Nancy Pelosi. To me she comes across as weak tea. If she can’t stand up for herself how is she going to stand up for me?
dimmsdale
@Another Scott: Not directly responsive to your point but hopefully somewhere in the same star cluster: unless Bloomie displays FDR-level willingness to sacrifice the good(s) of his class to the needs of the rest of the country, and governs accordingly, even nominating the guy cements in position forever the notion of oligarch rule in America, and maintenance of a permanent “1%” class untouched by law, tax policy, or notions of the common good. I reserve my bitterest contempt here (almost bordering on my contempt for Susan Collins) for the DNC, which let Bloomie into the debates in the first place. He deserves fringe status, and offers nothing to the race that the current roster doesn’t have–except his money.
Soprano2
@download my app in the app store mistermix: I don’t think any of the Bernie head-to-head with Trump polls matter right now. Just wait until they buy $100 million worth of ads where they play the clips of Sanders praising the USSR over and over again, so that all the low-information voters can hear it. I’m not worried about all of us – we’re Team Crawl-Over-Broken-Glass. I’m worried about the people who won’t tune in until the summer or early fall, where they’ll be met by an onslaught of ads about Bernie’s socialism and communist sympathizing, plus I saw something the other day claiming that he called the hostages Iran took in 1979 CIA spies! “Bernie sympathized with the Ayatollah” is going to be a great ad for all the Democrats in down-ballot races. /s I agree with whoever said here the other day that Trump will run a “Bernie Sanders Hates America” campaign, and he has a good chance of winning with it because he doesn’t even have to make shit up – he can just play videos of Sanders and cite real things he’s written and said over the years.
Ivan X
Thank you everyone! You are all just the best.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Aurona: Bloomberg/Harris is a definite possibility if he’s being advised by rational human beings.
@Soprano2: I agree the polls don’t matter and that a shit ton of negative ads will change the numbers. I was just trying to add some facts to the dogma about Sanders being on the bottom of every poll, which he isn’t.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Maybe she’s done the figuring and is biding her time for her take-down of St. Bernard to have the greatest impact? Maybe she’s not wanting to fall into the trap of being the “mean bitch”? Who knows. It’s early, we’ll see what happens.
But turn that “fighter” stuff around. Why would she be a special-ed teacher? Why would she spend years and years on bankruptcy law? Why would she give up a great job as a professor to get into politics and advocate for the CFPB? Who does all that if they’re not interested in fighting for ordinary people?
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: I voted for her in 2018 she is my senator I am not sold on her as the presidential nominee of our party.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
I think she made a huge miscalculation by allying herself with Sanders. She thought that she could peel off some of his voters with her better policies, but she can’t, because they’re a cult. They’re just mad that she “copied” him.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Enough. You be you. I am pieing you because I just don’t want to see any more of the ninja assassin shit.
Have fun voting for Bernie or Bloomberg.
stinger
@Ivan X: Pulling for you! You’ll do great!
Brachiator
First thing: Bloomberg says he’s going to sell his company if elected. The proceeds will go to his charity.
Don’t care. The debates are not really the best place to vett Bloomberg. He needs to show that he has any competence when it comes to dealing with president level issues.
I don’t think the various debate moderators have shown that they have a clue.
I don’t mind if Bloomberg is in the debates. But he has not shown me that he deserves any consideration.
lurker3000
@MisterForkbeard: Yes, and he learned it from watching Trump I’d bet. How did we turn into a case history for the dangers of populism? Not sure that it isn’t already too late to stop the lefty populist at this point. Hope I’m wrong.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle:Just because I don’t worship at the altar of EW doesn’t mean I am voting for BS or Bloomberg.
ETA: If she goes after BS tonight I might reconsider my vote since she is running neck and neck with BS in Massachusetts. Especially if she is the strongest D to emerge from SC and NV.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: You are just running her into the ground.
But you might still vote for her. What a loon.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Jumping into the middle of the conversation. This is an interesting point. Some men and maybe some women have to get used to the sometimes different style of women candidates, or just adjust their assumptions.
I mentioned in another thread that a married couple who otherwise like Warren thinks that she apologizes too much. And yet, male candidates are often admired and cheered if they are pugnacious, while women are criticized.
And, strangely enough, some people just don’t like to see women “fighting men.” Perversely, sometimes they want to “defend” the woman even if she is ably defending herself, and end up imposing an idea that she is “weak” upon her.
Bottom line is that I think that Warren is clearly a fighter, and even knows how to pick her battles to be most effective.
ETA: Europeans seem to be better at accepting tough women politicians. Even though former prime minister Theresa May was accused of being “soft,” everyone accepted that Amber Rudd was her “enforcer” and admired her ability to kick ass.
The leaders of the SNP and DUP don’t have to soften their styles. And Angela Merkel, more than Trump, is seen by some to be the political leader of Western democracies.
Anyway, my half a crown on the issue.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Ivan X: That’s awesome!
Panurge
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Well, you see, if we/the Dems had done this when McGovern lost and looked for someone who could do for McGovernism what Reagan did for Goldwaterism, where would we be now?
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: I have been called worse on this very blog. I will live. Primaries are the place to disagree, to vet our candidates. If that makes me a loon, so be it.
The Truffle
@Soprano2: The Dems still have the potential to take the Senate this year.
Sturgeonmouth
@schrodingers_cat:
Saying the woman who conceived of and fought for the creation of the CFPB as anything other than a fighter strikes me as absurd. I think she has twice the spine of impeachment-reluctant Nancy Pelosi. I think Obama would agree.
feebog
We had such an outstanding slate of candidates, the thought the nomination may come down to Sanders or Bloomberg is depressing as hell. Bitecofer may be right, she thinks Dems will line up behind any candidate, even these two, but ugh, no thanks to either.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat:
She’s not just some Bernie-ette. You know this.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@Sturgeonmouth:
@Another Scott:
Absolutely.
The Truffle
@feebog: We still do have some fine candidates and I don’t think Bloomy has a chance. I would be fine with Sanders, though.
schrodingers_cat
I disagree with the formulation that both Warren and BS are running on, that the existential crisis we are facing with the Orange King’s ascendance is an economic crisis. YMMV.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat:
The country has a lot of problems that we’ve put off addressing for far too long. She’s talking about a great many of them – not just economics.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: Elizabelle called me names but I am really not sure that a vote for Warren won’t end up being a vote for BS. Before I consider voting for her I need to see her going after BS strong and hard.
Chyron HR
@Sturgeonmouth:
Imagine! Just imagine! Reluctant to back impeachment? How foolish in hindsight!
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: It would be satisfying for her to rhetorically knife him the way Amy K has ex-Mayor Pete – I agree. But I would be much happier if she finds a way to win the nomination and the election. If that means pulling her punches or using different tactics to do that, I’m fine with it.
She has won more elections than either one of us. I think she knows what’s she’s doing. She got the CFPB through in the face of a mountain of opposition. She won in Massachusetts – in spite of (Warning – Politico) early stumbles.
It’s early. We’ll see. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: I haven’t seen anything like that – not challenging you because I’m sure you’re correct, but I would love to hear about the ways in which Obama is doing that, or to be directed to somewhere I could read about it.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: E.g.
https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1229432034650722304
HTH!
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
@Another Scott: I trust Obama’s political instincts on what to say and when. He’s been good in balancing need for progressive policies with caution about going to far too fast.
I agree that he needs to be careful. I don’t think anyone expected Sanders to do so well while being little more than a tape loop of his 2016 act, or Biden to start his campaign with such a weak effort on specific policy proposals, which I think voters want to hear this cycle.
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott: Every internet rando on Twitter is screaming advice at Warren. Why doesn’t she listen? [insert eyeroll thingie here]
Chris Johnson
@Elizabelle: Cat is perhaps not real (at least not a real cat! ;) ) S/he is about as persistent and consistent as ‘Jeb with big bags of cash!’ troll, and is hammering a line of trolling that’s starkly at odds with reality.
Don’t sweat it. All this is about panicking and stampeding people BEFORE they get a chance to vote, and don’t you fall for it. And the ‘I voted for X, and now I hate them’ is such a classic fake-poster trope that I tend not to admit that I voted for Sanders (and then Clinton) and now would not vote for Sanders.
I’ll be specific. There are exactly two situations where I would not vote for the ‘Dem’ in the general election, just all the other Dems on the ticket.
One is if Sanders is the nominee AND chooses Gabbard as a veep: because that would be enough proof, for me, that he’s run out of Russia and is all the BJ haters say he is. I’m not convinced, but if he picked Gabbard, I’d believe the whole ‘Russian stooge’ story.
The other is if Bloomberg is the nominee. That would be walking into such a trap that we would be better off still viewing the President as a deadly enemy. To get exactly the same thing but more competent (somewhat) and ‘calling from inside the house’ is a guarantee that we have abandoned democracy completely and I am not gonna vote for that. The man will do the same things Trump does, or worse.
Anyone else running on the Dem ticket gets my vote, whether or not I like them. That includes Bernie if he does NOT choose Gabbard (she would be the tip-off that the fix was in).
Topclimber
@Elizabelle:Sorry but Bloomberg is the extinction event. He wins and we lose all credibility about money as the root problem in American politics/society. Bernie wins the nomination and maybe (yes BJErs it ain’t a sure thing) Trump wins the general. Have you fallen for the fallacy that Trump is the core problem rather than the legitimizing of plutocracy?
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: I appreciate the link. That seems like a pretty mild way to take on Trump. More like trolling than taking him on, but maybe it’s a matter of perspective.
Elizabelle
@Chris Johnson: Hey there. Ms. Cat is definitely a human and a unique commenter. She is just being repetitive and obtuse and I have had it.
All this is about panicking and stampeding people BEFORE they get a chance to vote, and don’t you fall for it.
That’s what I think is going on, too. From the media, from the pollsters (and polls have been failing us this cycle, have they not?) — “interesting times” we live in.
What is reported. What is ignored. Scary times.
Betty Cracker
@Chris Johnson: I disagree with S-Cat about Warren and wish we didn’t have a chorus eagerly crapping all over Warren every time her name is mentioned. Hell, I wish people would give it a rest about Bernie, though I’m obviously not his biggest fan either.
That said, S-Cat is no troll. She has a different opinion and is persistent about airing it here, as are lots of folks about their opinions. It’s a political blog, FFS. Just scroll on past if it irritates you. We can all make that choice.
Chris Johnson
Also, Sanders’ PLATFORM is not off base. He just cannot be trusted with it, because he doesn’t think things through and is only out for himself (and has a lot of reason to not think about things too hard, as he’s getting propped up by Russia and doesn’t want to acknowledge this).
They didn’t make up his platform. Warren will never attack his platform because she is seeing the same injustice, the same corruption, the same madness that he objects to. And she’s not going to get personal and yell at him because (a) women gotta be careful about that one and (b) she’s not getting personal at anybody in the sense you might want to see.
So, on the one hand you (i.e. cat, and OK, just a poster with very different opinions) are mad if you want to see Warren attack Bernie and take the side of the oligarchs. And on the other hand you’re a fool if you expect to see her turn into a shrieking harpy who calls him a fake and an asshole. I expect her to have better tactical sense than that: evidenced by the fact that they haven’t got many lines of attack on her, beyond just disappearing her and insisting nobody likes her and she can’t win, and making up a bunch of completely disconnected and groundless abuse of her, from any possible angle.
And the last time I saw THAT directed at Warren and it wasn’t here, it was in ‘dirtbag left’ territory and sounded some of the same criticisms, and I know THAT stuff was directly from Russia because it’s a lot more brazen than anything we get here.
cleek
@MisterForkbeard:
he is not leading.
1/25th of the states have voted, and he’s in second.
Elizabelle
LOL. WaPost:
Yes, it is Alexandra Petri, their satirist.
FYI: debate airs at 9 pm Eastern tonight. Can watch it on NBC or MSNBC.
Here’s a link for online streaming (which I learned about through a jackal many months ago).
Rockin Rooster’s MSNBC feed: https://livenewschat.eu/politics/
And they’ve got a countdown clock up. Le sigh. 4:25 to wait.
schrodingers_cat
Warren doesn’t have to call BS names she can politely point out that his plans are full of holes. In fact they are not plans at all but empty slogans.
Topclimber
@schrodingers_cat:Hey this thread is on life support but once more into the bleg.
Warren gains nothing by going after Sanders. She wins by consolidating the liberal vote. Not easy as of yesterday because of snake emojis and all that BB stuff. Much easier today when Sanders is stonewalling his health issues.
No one can go after Bloomberg like EW. He can’t snow here on economic issues and I bet he can’t make his arguments as succinct. Is there anyone who the entire left rejects more than Mayor Mike?
There is plenty of time to confront Bernie. First attack the fattest target.
Butter Emails
@Topclimber:
The plutocracy isn’t a uniform bunch of villains. The have different priorities and agendas. The problem is that one group of plutocrats has somehow embraced the bad side of every issue and has gone whole hog on embracing and stoking authoritarianism, sexism and racism to get their positions implemented.
Electing Bloomberg probably wouldn’t be an extinction level event more than electing Roosevelt was.
Baud
@Topclimber:
As someone who would like to see her consolidate the liberal vote, (1) do you think the health issue will accomplish that and (2) do you think she’ll actually make that argument?
cokane
Predictions that Sanders will for sure lose the general just don’t stand up the only good evidence we have — matchup polling. Which, in their averages, have shown Sanders performing only worse than Biden. Recent polls with Bloomberg show him doing well too, but I’m skeptical those will hold up once the public knows more about his record.
People who support Warren but think somehow Sanders would get destroyed, just don’t know what their talking about, imo. There’s no compelling evidence for thinking she’d win and he’d lose — the opposite actually. Anyone who is predicting a Mondale style loss just doesn’t understand the different political landscape today.
Sanders is popular among rank-and-file Democrats. Just as Biden was. This primary season has been a somewhat hilarious revelation about how a certain subset of BJers do not know what they’re talking about with regard to public opinion.
cokane
@cleek: He’s leading in the average of national polling by double digits, which is a pretty decent margin this late in primary season. He is also leading in Nevada polling by such a healthy margin it’s hard to see him losing, which will put him ahead in delegates.
It’s weird that such a reliable, progressive Senate vote is so hated by so many in this community. But, at the very least, it’s a bad look to engage in this Republican style denial of reality.
cokane
@MomSense: He isn’t. He consistently outpolls candidates like Warren and Klobuchar in key battleground states. The idea that Sanders doesn’t do well in places like Michigan or Wisconsin — and that Warren does better? I mean it’s just an absurd lie.
Bill Arnold
Bloomberg Plays Turd in the Democratic Punch Bowl (2/18/2020, The Rude Pundit)
Only mildly rude. Nutshell quote:
cokane
@The Dangerman: Which Democratic nominee isn’t going to suffer under the $1 billion+ Trump reelection campaign?
cokane
@Topclimber: I very much agree with this take. A Bloomberg presidency probably means the death for any serious progressive policy for a generation. The man can and will buck the party as president. In fact, he’s very likely to remake the party in much the same way Trump has remade Republicans.
He’d be preferable to Trump, but, imo, he’s the least palatable of the remaining candidates. Not to mention, I don’t think his nomination actually increases the odds of Trump losing.
Topclimber
@Butter Emails:FDR waged war against the malefactors of great wealth. I see Bloomberg doing so against the grifter of bogus net worth and no one else in his own league.
Sturgeonmouth
@Chyron HR
Because putting Trump’s corruption, the Republican’s complicity, and the Democrat’s competence and respect for the rule of law on public display was somehow a bad thing?
Topclimber
@Baud: If there is a there there, yes. I think the media (ever so diligent about digging dirt on our side) and a whisper campaign among delegates at a contested convention are two ways the job gets done for her.
Citizen Alan
@Topclimber: I think Bernie and Bloomberge are BOTH extinction events. Nominating either of them is an admission that the majority of the Democratic Party no longer supports what the Democratic Party has stood for over the course of my entire life.
Brachiator
@cokane:
Bloomberg? You could say much the same thing about Sanders.
jl
@Citizen Alan: If you look at them closely enough, and worry enough that the candidate cannot campaign, then every candidate in this Democratic primary, in every election ever in fact, is an extinction event.
People need to quite panicking. We have no clue who will be the candidate yet, though most likely right now are Biden, Sanders and Bloomberg. The polls have been very volatile.
And I don’t think there is any point to hating on one candidate and saying it is all his or her fault. Sanders didn’t make Biden start out with a pretty weak campaign pitch. Very doubtful Biden advised Sanders to be tape loop of his 2016 campaign.
WaterGirl
@cleek: Thank you for the reminder about that!