Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Tonight’s Big Debate Show: The Warm-Up

Tonight’s Big Debate Show: The Warm-Up

by | 298 Comments

This post is in: 

Hope springs eternal. Per Wired:

… The ninth Democratic primary debate is being hosted by NBC News and MSNBC with the Nevada Independent at the Paris Theater in Las Vegas.

Moderating the proceedings tonight will be NBC’s Lester Holt, Hallie Jackson, and Chuck Todd; Noticias Telemundo’s Vanessa Hauc; and Independent editor Jon Ralston. There is also a sort of audience participation component: NBC had been soliciting questions from viewers on the NBC News website until last Friday. Wherever the questions come from, candidates will have 75 seconds to answer them, and 45 seconds for follow-ups.

The debate begins at 9 pm EST/6 pm PST and is scheduled to last two hours. The whole thing will be broadcast live on NBC and MSNBC in English, and in Spanish on Universo. If you cut the cord long ago, don’t worry—there are plenty of options:

– The debate will stream live on the websites of NBC News, MSNBC, and the Nevada Independent; on NBC News and MSNBC’s Facebook pages, and on the NBC News mobile app.

– Noticias Telemundo will livestream the debate in Spanish on the its website, its Facebook page, and on its mobile app.
– If you use an Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, or Roku, you can watch live on the NBC News NOW app. NBC News Now is also a channel on XUMO, an ad-supported streaming service.

– MSNBC and NBC are also available with a paid subscription to streaming services like FuboTV, Sling TV, YouTube TV, and Hulu. Universo is also available on those services, although can require subscribing to an add-on package.

And don’t get too comfortable after tonight. There’s literally another debate—Round No. 10!—in less than a week.

The Guardian‘s liveblog is here, for those who prefer a little distance.

Reader Interactions

298Comments

  1. 1.

    TomatoQueen

    I’ve just been watching Nature’s show about stoats n weasels (lots of views of the Yorkshire Dales). Nova at 9 has one of their cat pieces, and then there’s a show about rafting in Bhutan. Pretty pleased with the alternatives to tonight’s bollox.

  3. 3.

    PsiFighter37

    I was going to hate-watch some of the debate, but I decided to read a book. Got tired, decided that going to sleep early sounds a lot better. I know I’ll feel a lot better getting 9.5 hours of sleep, as opposed to getting 7 hours and spending time getting pissed off about stuff.

    I hope Joe, Amy, and Liz bring their A-games, and they train a lot of fire on Wilmer and Bloomberg (but I care about Wilmer more). Make that fucker explain away all the shady shit surrounding his campaign. Heck, I’d trick him into endorsing Karl Marx on stage – I bet that’d be real easy to do.

  4. 4.

    guachi

    @Baud: Bernie beats every other Democrat head to head, not just Bloomberg. It’s Sanders’s nomination to lose at this point.

  7. 7.

    PsiFighter37

    @guachi: Makes me wonder if our base is not that much smarter than the numbskulls on the other side. That’s fucking depressing. I guess people want to find out just how badly America prefers amorality compared to socialism.

  11. 11.

    jk

    Best of luck to Warren, Klobuchar, and former mayor Pete and worst of luck to Biden, Sanders, and Bloomberg.

  13. 13.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    The most important debate in debating, according to Lester Holt.  God, I hate anchormen.

  17. 17.

    Another Scott

    “Bernie – why aren’t you a loser compared to centrist Mayor Mike?”

    “Mayor Mike – can Bernie beat Donnie?”

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    They couldn’t come up with one more moderator so that every candidate got personalized service from the panel?

  23. 23.

    Elizabelle

    Elizabeth hitting Bloomberg hard on harrassing women, hiding his tax returns, and some ugly language about women (that sounded like Trump but for the “lesbian” part — that was new).

  25. 25.

    PsiFighter37

    @guachi: No fucking kidding. Fuck Bernie. Treating him with kid gloves in 2016 was a mistake – Hillary should have lived up to the alleged ruthlessness of the Clinton legacy and buried his ass in 2016.

  28. 28.

    Adam L Silverman

    What’s the over/under on Senator Warren just reaches over and slams Mayor Bloomberg’s face into his podium?

  32. 32.

    NotMax

    Wow, Warren goes directly for a solar plexus punch on Bloomberg.

    PsiFighter37

    “Unsurprisingly, the poll-takers don’t talk a lot in public about the ignorance of the electorate on political and public policy matters. And the politicians are not going to disclose the, let’s say, limited body of knowledge in their constituencies. You don’t get elected calling your voters airheads.”
      – Jack Germond

  35. 35.

    PsiFighter37

    @dmsilev: Fuck Bernie and his multimillionaire ass. J.F.C. At least Bloomberg worked hard to make his money. I still fail to see how Wilmer earned his, given he was a lazy fuckhead for more than half of his life.

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    @dmsilev: It’s like the logic questions about the hats and the boxes or the wedding seating chart that they used to ask on the GRE.

  47. 47.

    Morzer

    I think there’s some risk that a pile on Bloomberg will generate sympathy for him, especially if he keeps hitting Trump.  That said, the other candidates are fighting cleverly so far.

  48. 48.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Warren: Bloomberg is worse than the Houston Astros, but I’ll support him if he’s the nominee.

  55. 55.

    dmsilev

    @Adam L Silverman: The proper answer to the latter question is “let everyone sit where they want, and tip the cleaning crew well when they come by to mop up the blood.”. It’s usually option ‘E”.

  61. 61.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anya: When you have Bloomberg’s money, you get bespoke medical, health, and wellness treatment if you want it.

  63. 63.

    PsiFighter37

    @Mary G: Deep down, it’s what every “true” lefty is like – assholish and trying shove their beliefs down everyone’s throat.

  64. 64.

    Anya

    I like how Warren easily transitions to attacking Bloomberg.

    I think she’s legitimately offended that he’s trying to buy the nomination.

  68. 68.

    dmsilev

    How many of those Twitter followers are robots? If nothing else, they’re probably not old enough to vote.

  71. 71.

    NotMax

    Someone force-fed Buttigieg his Wheaties this morning.

    Warren focused and concise. Not “I have a plan” but rather (paraphrasing) “This is what I will do.”

  78. 78.

    Morzer

    Bernie apparently trying to be the reddest candidate on stage facially as well as in terms of policy.

  80. 80.

    Immanentize

    @PsiFighter37: Jerry Rubin wrote in “Do It” that if the left ever got control in this country, they would have everyone going to thought school six days a week

  81. 81.

    Anya

    @Morzer: He’s the most Trump like and his twitter supporters (and his inner circle) are the most MAGA like group of people.

    ETA — in terms of his lack of apology and his believe in his own cult

  83. 83.

    Morzer

    I do wish Klobuchar hadn’t interrupted Mayor Pete to do a bit of self-promotion. Something interesting was happening between him and Sanders. It looked like an actual… debate.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anya: He’s also got this little psychotic working as his spokesperson:

    She seems nice!

    Pre-Debate Open Thread: <em>What Is Bernie HIDING?</em>

  86. 86.

    Morzer

    @Anya: That’s certainly the impression that Shouty Redface makes when refusing to take responsibility for his supporters.

  89. 89.

    The Dangerman

    I have GOT to be more careful.

    Every month or so, I go over to Bakersfield; it’s a mostly easy drive these days (46 used to be Blood Alley, but it’s been improved massively). Couple hours of work, do a quick lunch (believe it or not, there are some nice places in Bakersfield), get outta town. Easy, peasy.

    So, I’m sitting down for lunch and the TV is on (rather unusual) and, fuck all, Trump is arriving in a few minutes. AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. He probably didn’t leave the grounds of the airport, but I wasn’t risking it and got the hell outta town as fast as I could. I had visions of getting caught up in MAGAts On Parade and that’s the last thing I need right now.

    The funny thing was the MAGAt on the TV was talking about how she was looking to hear the words of the President on water policy for the area. Come on, Trump’s depth of water policy isn’t deeper than whether he flushes more than once and how hard he could screw over a Big City (LA or SF) to help out the Red parts of the State (although, if he blew up Hetch Hetchy, I would consider he did right, although SF would scream bloody murder).

  93. 93.

    TS (the original)

    @Baud: Warren is strong tonight.  I hope it’s not too late.

    It’s never too late for the media to ignore her.

  96. 96.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Sanders:  yes my twitter supporters are horrible, but they’re the real victims.

  100. 100.

    Morzer

    Bloomberg must be thanking His Own Divinity that everyone has decided to fight over healthcare and leave him alone while they squabble.

  101. 101.

    Sab

    @Baud:

     

    @Anya: I have always felt that when Warren appears offended sh is legitimately deeply offended. It is legitimate and not theater.

    She believes in fair play (from government, not the universe) and the rule of law.

  102. 102.

    mad citizen

     

    @Morzer: True, except Wilmer just kept talking over Pete.

    Come on Nevada, ZERO votes for Wilmer and bloomberg.  Pleeeze!  (OK, realized bloomberg not on ballot)

  104. 104.

    Another Scott

    Todd is horrible.  Just horrible.

    Actually talking about the differences between the health care plans would be useful, but he turns it into a joke about name checking and post-it notes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Elizabelle: From pages 33 and 34 of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s Volume 2 of their multi=part report on the Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

    https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume2.pdf

    (U) The IRA’s ideologically left-leaning and right-leaning social media accounts posted content that was political in nature and made reference to specific candidates for President. Hillary Clinton, however, was the only candidate for President whose IRA-posted content referenceswereuniformlynegative. Clinton’scandidacywastargetedbyboththeIRA’sleftand right personas, and both ideological representations were focused on denigrating her. As Renee DiResta notes, the political content ofthe IRA, “was unified on both sides in negativity towards Secretary Clinton.”136 The IRA’s left-leaning accounts focused their efforts on denigrating Clinton and supporting the candidacy of either fellow Democrat candidate Bernie Sanders or Green Party candidate Jill Stein, at the expense of Hillary·Clinton. Posts from the IRA’s right- leaning accounts were unvaryingly opposed to Clinton’s candidacy.

    (U) Evidence of an overarching pro-Trump and anti-Clinton bias leading up to Election Day 2016 is also fuund in information obtained by Special Counsel’s Office. For instance, IRA employees were directed to focus on U.S. politics and to “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump-we support”them).”138 Another IRA employee was criticized internally for having a ‘”low number of posts dedicated to criticizing Hillary Clinton’ and was told ‘it is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton’ in future posts.”139 Content and hashtags produced by IRA employees included “#Trump2016,” “#TrumpTrain,” “#MAGA,” “#IWorttProtec~Hillary,” and “#Hillary4Prison.”140

     

  110. 110.

    Morzer

    So can we all agree that blowing up bridges is bad? That’s what I am getting from this debate so far.

  113. 113.

    jl

    Frickin’ Sanders. Todd asked a question about health care that is somewhat more than a recycled GOP talking point. And Sanders launches into a few sentences of his stump speech.

    Sander’s Medicare plan allows supplemental private health insurance, and has space for tailoring policies to replicate current union plans. Why doesn’t he say so? I was right that his 2016 campaign is a tape loop of 2016, but I am surprised that it is so popular.

    Warren’s answer was somewhat better, but she has even more basis for just saying yes, we can keep equivalents of current union plans. She as very detailed plans for that.

    Buttigieg BSd. Klobuchar skirting her ‘no you can’t’ trope I thought she was abandoning.

    Sanders has a chance to say something, and stump speeches again.

    I don’t know if I can watch this without my blood pressure skyrocketing.

  117. 117.

    PsiFighter37

    If they are going to talk about health care, can someone please ask Wilmer to talk about his policy, and not just say “I wrote the damn bill” (yeah, right, you lazy fuck)?

  119. 119.

    Morzer

    @hilts: Warren tried, but I am not sure she came across that well. The audience didn’t seem exactly wowed by the mass-flaming of the other candidates.

  123. 123.

    mad citizen

    @Morzer: Yup.  Seems like Warren is going all in.  Super Tuesday will bring us resolution.

     

    Hard to make any judgments from crowd reactions.

  125. 125.

    Anya

    I can understand why Warren is not making any traction. She’s smarter than everyone on that stage. For some weird reason, Americans don’t like smart and prepared women.

  127. 127.

    Morzer

    I think Warren would have done better not to try and shoehorn “moving encounter story” into her shredding of the Klobuchar 2 paragraph health plan.

  128. 128.

    jl

    Warren is getting better in her answer, but I don’t understand why she just didn’t say she had a detailed plan to allow unions to keep equivalents of their current plans, and has a process to implement that.

    If you can say “Yes! My plan does what they want, eliminates their fears, They can keep their current benefits”, why not say it?

  132. 132.

    Sab

    Whoever suggested Nova on Cats on PBS has my eternal gratitude. Husband is watching it now instead of whatever. He has had a horrible month, and he adores cats. Show seems to be informative and very calming ( like cats, to cat people.)

    ??Pretty slim pickings on cat emojis.

  134. 134.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Morzer: Fox has tried to make that movie twice and screwed it up with the original cast and the new cast. So maybe third time is the charm.

  135. 135.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    We may like it, but average viewers may not like Warren attacking everyone, including Bambi Amy.

  136. 136.

    Morzer

    Warren hit Klobuchar very hard – and then lost all her momentum by trying to speed-tell a story that didn’t add anything to what she had already said.

  137. 137.

    Anya

    @Adam L Silverman: She’s an internet troll. I see her tweets on my TL all the time (for some reason people I follow get riled by her and keep engaging with her) and she’s truly a classic internet troll. I don’t understand how she’s the press secretary of a major party candidate.

  139. 139.

    JMG

    I am not watching the debate because I have already made my choice and have backed it with contributions (it’s Warren). But just now I spent five minutes on Twitter and comments fall into two categories. Category 1. “Oh, this is awful, why aren’t all of them attacking Trump instead of each other?” Category 2. “This is more like it! Let’s see what you all got!” I’d have to go with category two. These folks are playing for high stakes. They should act like it.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    I think it’s funny to see the candidates raising their hands like schoolkids.

    Or:  I’ll take thousandaire presidents for 200, Alex.

  142. 142.

    Morzer

    Joe Biden really is alive tonight – and he’s obviously decided that Bloomberg must be crushed.

  143. 143.

    Mary G

    Bloomberg not looking too good to me. The apology is lame and he’s not fast on his feet at all.

  144. 144.

    Another Scott

    Liz is taking a flame thrower to Mike about Stop and Frisk’s intent.

    Excellent.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  147. 147.

    Anya

    I love Warren and I am super impressed by her command of policies. My fear is the same thing that happened to Harris after she went hard on Biden will happen to her. My own grandmother was turned off by her (Harris) and she loves tough women. A lot of Democrats are spooked by Dem on Dem attacks.

  153. 153.

    PsiFighter37

    @Mary G: Him saying that he was responsible for reducing it is flat-out BS. I have to imagine a conscious decision was made by Bloomberg and Howard Wolfson that Democratic primary voters wouldn’t bother digging into the details too deeply or wouldn’t care enough to. Insulting to one’s intelligence, sure, but Bloomberg had zero good cards to play aside from outright apologizing, which he’s got too big an ego to do.

  156. 156.

    Fair Economist

    Warren may be trying to get un-ignored. The media loves, loves, to repeat negative things about Democrats. By saying them, she’ll be in the clips the media plays over and over and over and over and over…

  157. 157.

    jl

    @Morzer:

    ” Warren hit Klobuchar very hard – and then lost all her momentum by trying to speed-tell a story that didn’t add anything to what she had already said. ”

    I’ve read all the plans. Warren is right about her plan versus the others. She has a very detailed very good plan compared to the other candidates.

    I think her problem is that she tried to play the corporate media’s game in trying to provide a detailed accounting of every penny, which is a losers game. Sanders does better by saying it’s a silly question because 12 percent of GDP is less than 18 percent. Biden does better by saying he’ll pay for his plan by getting rid of Trump’s tax increases.

  158. 158.

    Morzer

    I am enjoying watching Mayor Pete twist Bernie’s tail by making these implicit comparisons to Trump.

  159. 159.

    Marcopolo

    @Anya: If you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t you might as well do it and let the chips fall where they may.

  163. 163.

    mad citizen

    Speaking of, what has happened to part 2 of trump’s physical?

    The health plan stuff is boring

    Jesus, Wilmer tries to talk nonstop.

  164. 164.

    Morzer

    @jl: Warren is right about the plans – but she should have stopped after cutting the other candidates to shreds. She went on too long and that weakened her focus.

  166. 166.

    NotMax

    Someone told Buttigieg that not shaving makes him not look so young on camera. What it does is make him look young and sloppy.

  167. 167.

    Immanentize

    @Anya: Why do so many people who claim to really like Warren erase her? Why are so many people who claim to really like Warren so eager to get to the “BUT” part of their sentences?

    I get why.

  168. 168.

    Another Scott

    Bernie cannot answer a specific question without going into his 2016 stump speech.

    Pete’s good about going after him about his nebulous plans.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  169. 169.

    PsiFighter37

    Seems like Mayor Pete is doing his best to piss off Wilmer. Works for me. Anything to see that asshole pop a blood vessel on the stage.

  170. 170.

    Anya

    @Adam L Silverman: Republicans have always had poor hires and Trump took it to the ground but Dems should do better. We’re the smart part. The grown up party or at least that’s what my grandpa tells me whenever I get mad and ask why aren’t dems playing dirty.

  172. 172.

    Morzer

    @Baud: I have been reluctantly impressed by Mayor Pete.  He’s pretty good at sounding reasonable while sliding the knife in.

  173. 173.

    Another Scott

    Poor Mike – his taxes are complicated and take a long time because he has so many donations.

    Gimme a break.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  178. 178.

    jl

    Buttigieg is bullshitter. Hope that doesn’t offend any Buttigieg fans here, but no candidate BS’s like Buttigieg (though we don’t have a full picture of Bloomberg’ talents yet)

    The insurance industry is going to attack every Democratic candidate’s plan, and call it socialist, even if it does keep the status quo. The insurance industry does not like the status quo of ACA.

    The Swiss health care industry is mostly private, and very highly regulated, and costs much less than the US, and has some world best results. The insurance companies get a management return for selling basic policies, an can profit on supplemental care.  You know who hates the Swiss health insurance company with the heat of a thousand suns? the Swiss insurance industry. They don’t want to forego a penny of profits they can grab by hook or crook.

  179. 179.

    Elizabelle

    I hope you heard what his defense is. I was nice to some women.

    LOL, Elizabeth.

    Release the NDAs!

  181. 181.

    khead

    So you are saying “I’ve been nice to some women.”  – Liz

    Bloomberg looks like a deer in headlights over her NDA attacks.

  183. 183.

    Elizabelle

    Some is how many?

    I love this Elizabeth.  Good for voters to see that.

    Asks if Bbg is releasing them from NDAs tonight.

  190. 190.

    Anya

    Warren came to bury Bloomberg and Buttigieg came to bury Sanders and I think one of them succeeded.

  192. 192.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle:

    Release the NDAs!

    I predict that within a decade, NDAs will be held to be void when they:
    1) obscure criminal behavior and also when they
    2) obscure civil actionable behavior by other than the person signing the NDA.

    They are antithetical to justice.

  193. 193.

    Elizabelle

    Consensually?

    Those wimmens forced Mike to sign NDAs?

    Really?

    Now Bernie asks about Blbg support for W and Republican senators.  Although I was liking the discussion of NDAs.

  194. 194.

    Morzer

    You’d think Mike Bloomberg had learned by now that money can’t buy you love. He’s certainly getting a first class re-education on the topic tonight.

  195. 195.

    jl

    @Anya: I criticize all the candidate, since no one is perfect, and they are humans just like we are, but I’be contributed quite a big to her campaign, and phone banked for her and will vote for her.

    I’ll tune back in later to see if they get back to policy.

  197. 197.

    Elizabelle

    I hope Bloomberg is still going to fund anti-Trump ads after getting his NDA’d butt handed to him by his “fellow Democrats.”  Can’t you see him wondering about that?

  198. 198.

    Marcopolo

    Can I just say I am so happy Bloomberg is on the stage, although I also believe the DNCs debate benchmark system (and their disposal of them for Bloomberg) was awful.

  207. 207.

    Another Scott

    Having 4 people talk at once is great.

    Liz is defending Amy K from Pete and the moderators.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  211. 211.

    jl

    I like Buttigieg less less every time he speaks.

    Warren quick enough to make amends for her (accurate IMHO) attack on Klobuchar’s health care plan

  214. 214.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Good for SPW for coming to AK’s Defense on the Mexican president’s name. That was solidarity.

  222. 222.

    Elizabelle

    Yea.  Climate crisis questions after the break.  Very good.

    Biden looks good tonight.  They all do to me, although Bloomberg is not as accustomed to debates as his “fellow Democrats.”

  223. 223.

    Anya

    @Immanentize: I am actually not the person to ask. Most of the people I know are well informed voters who pretty attuned to political undercurrents but some of the people I encounter are interested mostly about defeating Trump. They just want someone who can defeat Trump. And when candidates attack each other, they get scared. Obviously, misogyny (including internalized misogyny is a huge obstacle for Warren).

  224. 224.

    PsiFighter37

    @SiubhanDuinne: But why? Dub ya got roasted for not knowing this kind of stuff in 2000. Klobuchar just had to vote on the NAFTA revisions, for crying out loud.

    I know the bar is a lot lower now, but not knowing Mexico’s president is close to a dealbreaker.

  227. 227.

    Immanentize

    My son, the Immp, just came in and said, “Are you watching the debate?  Bloomberg is getting rightfully destroyed.”. He is 18.  The kids are alright.

  228. 228.

    jl

    @SiubhanDuinne: Some of the questions, from more than one moderator, have been grubby gotcha grandstanding. Why not ask something about a foreign policy issue re Mexico? Would be a better way to find out who has understanding of issues.

  229. 229.

    khead

    @Martin:

    These things need to happen every so often.  Helps to get rid of the bad blood.  Hopefully early in the primary season.  – Peter Clemenza (paraphrased)

  232. 232.

    Another Scott

    @zhena gogolia: People need to see the differences between the candidates, and the candidates need to be able to show that they can take a punch and respond.  This isn’t about Trump.

    I think this is the best debate I’ve seen thus far.

    Politics ain’t beanbag.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  233. 233.

    Anya

    @Baud: Is it bad that I internally prayed that he actually met with the current president of Mexico and he doesn’t get fact checked later? But yeah, he’s on fire tonight.

  235. 235.

    PsiFighter37

    Bloomberg sounded like he completely botched the question around NDAs. Adios, fucker – save the rest of your cash while you can.

    Merhinks Bloomberg’s numbers crater and Biden gets a bit of a rebound.

  236. 236.

    Leto

    Not sure why we have Bloomberg filling the Republican centrist role when we have Pete continuing to lead the charge on that front.

  238. 238.

    Marcopolo

    Solid first hour for Warren & Biden. Bloomberg, however, is looking like a gutted fish. Sanders is his normal shouty self & Amy & Pete are about to go out back and settle it with fisticuffs.

    Maybe the best debate so far.

  243. 243.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    I just posted another thread for the second hour of the debate since when we get to 200+ comments things get a little unwieldly

    Edited to add:  Cheryl did the same thing simultaneously so I took it down.

  246. 246.

    MomSense

    I honestly don’t think this is a good showing for us.  Trump’s cult followers like the zings and the attacks, but do you all really think this plays well to the voters we need to persuade? I think it’s going to turn off everyone who isn’t a political junkie.

    People are sick of this kind of fighting.  It’s kind of like the house on the street where all the kids like to hang out.  It’s not the one with arguing and bickering.

  249. 249.

    BlueDWarrior

    When only one person gets to be top of the ticket, this was bound to happen eventually.

     

    If the trend of no one trying to assert themselves continued, Bernie ends up with a 35% pularity and Katie bar the door of that happens.

  252. 252.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Amy made a big mistake not knowing who’s the manager of the Chicago Cubs

    what was she thinking!?!

  254. 254.

    mad citizen

    @jl: Yup.  Who would have thought Chuck Todd would not be the worst questioner.  That commentary from the Latina journo to AK was way low.

  257. 257.

    NotMax

    @Immanentize

    Of course defeating Dolt 45 is (no pun intended) primary. And everyone on that stage has that as a goal. But-

    What then? What follows the victory? THAT is what vibrant debate is necessary to hash out.

    (General, not personal response. Certainly not implying you are not already well aware of this.)

  262. 262.

    jl

    I had to restart the feed after it froze, and that triggered a commercial. Missed Ralston’s climate change question. I hope it was good. His follow up questions seem better than average, not ‘how you gonna pay’ recycled GOP talking points.

  263. 263.

    PsiFighter37

    @Immanentize: I can name them going back to Thatcher. If people want to hold important roles, they should know info about the important countries at hand. Especially the country next door.

  264. 264.

    Sab

    @Another Scott: This is basic. You gotta checkbook and a register. You got bank statements. Tie them together. I do this on several hundred tax returns in two montha every spring. Tedious but not hard at all.

  265. 265.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: Just the other day I said no one cares about the day after Trump loses.  And OzarkHB pointed out, “until the day after.”

  266. 266.

    Morzer

    So far, I suspect Biden looks better to the voters than anyone else on the stage. Klobuchar looked rattled and pissy, Mayor Pete probably enjoyed shoving the shiv in a little too much and Warren seems to have decided to fight all the other candidates when she isn’t being Amy’s Mamabear.  Bloomberg has been roasted. Sanders will keep his cult vote, but I doubt he’s convinced anyone who wasn’t part of it.

  267. 267.

    Leto

    @Immanentize: How about the PM of Poland? Key military ally, we’re expanding our military ops there in direct response to Russia… what about BALTOPs? Can they name that op because, again, very big military exercise meant to help train NATO/non-NATO troops in direct response to Russian aggression. Everyone has brain farts.

  269. 269.

    Martin

    @Immanentize: To be honest, they’ve been helping. The blowup  between Pete and Amy wasn’t caused by the moderators, even if the question that started it was dumb.

    If you get a dumb question, make it go away – don’t lean into it. These candidates can’t help but lean into the dumb questions.

  273. 273.

    Gin & Tonic

    @PsiFighter37:

    I can name them going back to Thatcher

    When my son was little he was fascinated with US Presidents, and knew them all. So we were out to dinner and his always helpful and supportive Dad said “oh yeah, I bet you can’t list them all backwards.”

    He did.

  274. 274.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Morzer: Sanders will keep his cult vote, but I doubt he’s convinced anyone who wasn’t part of it.

     

    That’s the key. He turn off everyone who already isn’t a one of his Moonies.

  278. 278.

    James E Powell

    @MomSense:

    People are sick of this kind of fighting.

    People who are paying attention in February are not put off by this kind of fighting and may really enjoy it.

  279. 279.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Wilmer yet again shouting and wagging his finger at unions (this time at workers he wants to fire in Pennsylvania) .

    So much for being the candidate of white working class.

  281. 281.

    Immanentize

    @Leto: What’s your name again?

    I agree with you, but the President of Mexico is especially important because of the number of Mexican American voters in key states.  The PM of Poland (that asshole from the Law and Justice Party) does not have the electoral significance of Obrador.  Voters matter.  Policy not so much.

  282. 282.

    NotMax

    @James E Powell

    I find it invigorating compared to the bland and boilerplate responses prevalent in most of the previous meet-ups. Fire in the belly is more than a cliche.

  287. 287.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic: When I was a kid, the trash can in the bathroom had all the President’s names and pictures on it (up to Johnson).  (Fuck LBJ, I miss Raven).  So that was my bathroom reading.

  288. 288.

    Fair Economist

    @PsiFighter37:

    Seems like Mayor Pete is doing his best to piss off Wilmer. Works for me. Anything to see that asshole pop a blood vessel on the stage.

    I like an aggressive candidate but trying to provoke an aneurysm might be a bit much. Then again, it is Sanders.

  289. 289.

    zhena gogolia

    @Marcopolo:

    I always hear this from you guys — “Bernie is Bernie,” or “Bernie is the way he always is.” Isn’t important that the way he always is is content-free? That would be important to me. I don’t see why he gets a pass.

  290. 290.

    Ruckus

    @zhena gogolia:

    It will take a fight to destroy trump because he will be wanting to do to anyone what he did to HRC in that one debate where he stood behind her and she let him. She should have told him to get away from her or to just fuck off. What do you think Warren will do if he tries that same bullshit? I’d bet she pulls no punches and tonight shows that. She’s here to win.

    Just an aside, when I worked in pro sports there seemed to be two types of competitors. Ones that always were competing, in every way and the others who competed on the playing field while being nice the rest of the time. Neither type was better at the actual sport but often the ones always competing could screw up the nicer competitors minds. EW just became a real competitor tonight. People have asked how she’d do against trump. I’d wager pretty damn good.

  291. 291.

    MomSense

    @James E Powell:

    Yes, my point is that this is for the political junkies.  I just think we should not assume that he zings we like are appealing to voters we need to win over.

  292. 292.

    James E Powell

    @Ruckus:

    What do you think Warren will do if he tries that same bullshit? I’d bet she pulls no punches and tonight shows that. She’s here to win.

    Whatever she or any other Democrat might do, they will be scorched on FOX and RW radio for their disrespect to The President. MSNBC and CNN will have RW guests come on to say the same thing.

  293. 293.

    James E Powell

    @zhena gogolia:

    I don’t see why he gets a pass.

    The press/media still give Sanders the same soft focus treatment he got in 2016. He helped destroy the Most Evil Hillary Clinton and the press/media will always love him for it.

  294. 294.

    Ruckus

    @James E Powell:

    So what. They will do that anyway, any and every thing they can turn against the democrat. And make the democrat look weak. If Warren acts in a debate against trump the way she acted tonight, he will go off message – if he was ever on it, and she will eviscerate him. The right wing will be pissed but so fucking what? They are going to lie and cheat anyway, they always do.

  296. 296.

    Original Lee

    @Immanentize: Given that Morawiecki authorised unconstitutional armed force against the government’s oversight agency head yesterday, this information is becoming more important. Poland could be heading towards civil war if the War of the Offices isn’t resolved quickly and acceptably.

     

    @Immanentize:

  297. 297.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @James E Powell: From where I’m sitting, that might not be a liability in a Democratic primary. The general election might be another story, mind you… I’m not sure any of us can reliably game that out at this point, though.

    Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpublicānam esse dēlendam.

  298. 298.

    Marcopolo

    @zhena gogolia:

    I always hear this from you guys — “Bernie is Bernie,” or “Bernie is the way he always is.” Isn’t important that the way he always is is content-free? That would be important to me. I don’t see why he gets a pass.

    Probably a dead thread but when I say Sanders is being his shouty self I am also obliquely saying he is content free.  He has his schtick & that is all he has.

Comments are closed.