I’ve seen mention of Warren as a VP pick. I think she’d be great, of course, and if the new President put her in charge of rooting out corruption, I’d love to see it. One thing though: if the Senate is tight, Warren would have to resign and her successor would be picked in a special election over five months after her resignation. That may seem minor, but in the current political climate, imagine a scenario where the Senate is 49 D-50 R once Warren is out, or 50 D-49 R and Manchin decides to Manchin. (50/50 tie votes for majority leader are broken by the VP, who in this scenario would be Warren.)
California and New Jersey replace vacancies by appointment, for the VP Kamala or VP Cory fans.
Cheryl Rofer
No. I love Warren, but not two people over 70.
E.
We need someone young, mean as a snake, smart as hell, articulate, inspiring, and ready to go after those fuckers. Kamala Harris.
ETA by “mean as a snake” I mean not willing to suffer fools and not interested in making nice with Mitch and friends.
trnc
I’d rather Warren stay in the senate than become vp. If we get a large enough majority, then make her AG.
Side note: Mulvaney out. Meadows is the flavor of the month.
twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1236096307103707136
Baud
Agree Warren would be better in the Senate. She will have to silence herself as VP.
SFAW
I think Biden (assuming he gets the nom) should “reach across the aisle” and tap a moderate Republican as his VP, to show how sincere he is. I think it would also help peel off some Republican votes to get various initiatives — M4A, various pieces of progressive legislation, and so forth — passed easily.
Or maybe Nathan Poe?
debbie
VP would be a comedown for her. If not the Senate, then a Cabinet appointment.
Ken
@E.: Thanks for the clarification. I was going to suggest Governor Inslee, but I guess he’s the wrong kind of snake.
SFAW
On a more serious note: part of me wants to have someone who will eviscerate Traitor Turtle — literally? figuratively? opinions vary — and part of me wants to have someone with strong enough policy chops that he/she can help shepherd good stuff through the Senate. Either way, she/he should be relatively young.
I would support Warren, if I thought there were a significant likelihood that Biden would either resign early, or become incapacitated (i.e., get 25th’ed).
SFAW
@trnc:
Wouldn’t you rather have Harris as AG? I certainly would.
PsiFighter37
Ideologically, I think Cory Booker probably fits best with Biden. Harris is the logical bet. That said, if the VP strategy is still to pick someone who rounds out the ticket from a demographic / geographic perspective, let me make an inspired suggestion – Catherine Cortez Masto, Harry Reid’s replacement in the US Senate and the first Latina elected to the US Senate.
randy khan
I’ve been on Team Harris for VP, in large part because I think Warren retain a bigger impact in the Senate, but I have to admit that Harris for VP means she can’t be AG, where I think she’d be perfect.
dogwood
Warren is a fabulous Senator. Why would we want to lose her expertise in that body? As I said yesterday, the “Warren for Majority/minority leader” Is equally puzzling. She would be off all committees, forced into a political job herding cats. I don’t see that as her forte at all.
E.
I feel as though, if he wins, Biden will rely on others a great deal more than most or all of his predecessors, and this might be a real opening for Dems. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking since TBH I don’t really like the guy. (Team Brokenglass obviously.) I also don’t like having someone that old in the position, and my assessment of the misogyny in this country is such that I have despaired that a female Democrat will ever ascend to the Presidency in any way other than by inheriting it as VP. Republicans could elect a woman at any time, of course, and they just might do it for Ivanka. I am hoping, *really hoping* he picks a woman. If he picks some boring old Tim Kaine white dude I might have to run away and live in the wilderness.
MomSense
@E.:
She also has executive experience which is desperately needed in order to rebuild the bureaucracy and get government functional again.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Gov. Baker would appoint an interim Senator(I hear Scott Brown is tanned and rested), and then the special would be held for a replacement in 145 to 160 days.
dogwood
@PsiFighter37: That’s a potential lost Senate seat.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
As much as I would have liked Warren to be our nominee, this would be a bad idea. As already mentioned above, this would be a step down in power for her, and we really need to build the bench from the next generation.
The final reason why this is a bad idea is that it would allow the republican governor to choose her replacement in the senate. there is a 0% chance that it would be a democratic member, and we need every seat in the senate to both break Moscow Mitch’s power, and pad against bad actors on our side (not going to happen this cycle, but I would love a +60 majority in the Senate).
MomSense
@randy khan:
She turned it down when Obama offered it to her, so I doubt that’s what she wants to do now.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SFAW:
Why do you hate Sen. Harris, AG is a politically dead end job that she’s allegedly already been offered and turned down.
Chyron HR
@E.:
Except they’re currently pimping the dumber, uglier, more punchable Don Jr. as the heir to the throne, presumably because they can’t imagine electing someone with cooties either.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Chyron HR: I thought Jr. was supposed to be running the business while dad was presidenting, Ivanka actually “works” in the White House.
Chyron HR
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Much as I hate to give Trump even this much credit, he at least put aside sexism enough to recognize which one of his children is closest to a functioning human being.
tobie
I like Amy K. I know she could jump in and assume the role of the President if something happened to Biden. What about Susan Rice? She’s never run for elected office but she’s served in the executive branch. I suppose there’s fear she would be attacked about Benghazi then again it’s safe to assume the GOP will not only dig up but also manufacture dirt on anyone on the Democratic side.
mad citizen
A friend of mine had a very interesting suggestion yesterday: IL Senator Tammy Duckworth. She would be fierce and the R’s could not attack her in any way. Question, though, does the VP nominee need to be a “natural born citizen”, etc.? Because she was born in Thailand, though her father was a U.S. Army veteran, etc. Would she qualify? Is this a back door into the Presidency?
cokane
I’m not about it. Make it somebody younger.
Ken
@?BillinGlendaleCA: That was the old AG role. The new role, with the recently-discovered powers to ignore both Congressional subpoenas and court orders in furtherance of the President’s political goals, is much more interesting and powerful.
Why, it might even be legal to literally eviscerate McConnell, as SFAW mentioned above. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and after the fact the courts may rule that the evisceration does not fall under the AG’s purview, but who cares what they say?)
OR Soder
Stacey Abrams!
SFAW
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Because I want someone who will go after all those treasonous/evil fuckers — Shill Barr, Traitor Turtle, Ron Johnson, Lindsey Graham, Cornyn, McCarthy, Uday, Qusay, Ghouliani, and a bunch more. And if she resigns afterward, and primaries DiFi, I think it’s a net win, Senate-wise.
ETA: Although I see DiFi is (theoretically) there through 2025. But maybe she could be convinced to resign “for the good of the country/party.”
PsiFighter37
@dogwood: Nevada has a Democratic governor, and the state is trending blue. I feel confident we would hold the seat if Cortez Masticola was the choice.
Geminid
I think Senator Cortez-Masto (D-NV) and Governors Whitman of Michigan and Inslee of Washington would be good choices, along with Senators Harris and Booker. I don’t think the VP candidate needs to be exceptional, just solid. Generally, the VP choice does not make or break a Presidential campaign, I think. Although hindsight tells me that if Gore had picked Senator Bob Graham of Florida instead of Joe Lieberman Gore would have been the 43rd President.
JMG
Why would Warren WANT to be Vice President? It’s a horrible job, assigned to do things the President doesn’t care to do himself and/or thinks are politically dangerous or else just being ignored. She’s an influential Senator and should Democrats retake the Senate, she’d be a really influential Senator. Also, she’s just not the type to be the public loyalist come what may that VPs are.
PsiFighter37
@Chyron HR: He only favors Ivanka because he thinks she is hot, not because she has brains.
OzarkHillbilly
No, just no. If she can’t be president she can do far more good where she is.
Pete Mack
Picking a 71 year old (in 2021) as a VP is a bad idea. It is OK for President, although I would expect only a single term. But one purpose to name someone VP is to set them up for a future presidential run. For that Booker or Harris are far better choices–as would be Klobuchar, but she is holding down a valuable–and unsafe!–Senate seat.
SFAW
@PsiFighter37:
Oh, cut the misogynistic bullshit — she’s as smart as he is.
PsiFighter37
@SFAW: Heh…well played.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ken:
@SFAW: AG is still “end of the line” politically, Sen. Harris is a bit young for that.
JAFD
Greetings from New Jersey !
For the statue text
nj.gov/state/dos-statutes-elections-19-01-09.shtml#ele_19_3_26
In short, Gov Murphy appoints a successor until next General Election, or he can call a Special Election (cf Oct 2013) (Was living in Mount Holly then, worked that day for Burlington Cty. Board of Elections at Rancocas Valley H.S. polls, nice day, doors open, band practicing outside in evening…)
Have great weekend, everyone.
Jim Parish
@mad citizen: She’s as much a natural-born citizen as Ted Cruz is.
SFAW
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Were he alive today, former President Robert F. Kennedy might disagree. [Although it wasn’t a certainty, of course, there’s a reasonable likelihood that, without Sirhan, Bobby would have won in ’68.]
tobie
@OR Soder: Stacey Abrams has one thing that few people on the Democratic side have: rhetorical power. The only others I can think of are Cory Booker, Adam Schiff, and Beto O’Rourke. My concern in her case is whether she has the experience to be able to step in to the Presidency should something happen and govern from day one.
dogwood
We don’t need high profile senators filling Cabinet positions. I imagine there is a long list of public servants who served as Deputy Secretaries in the Obama administration who would make great Cabinet secretaries. And Preet Bharara would be a great AG. If Democrats want to get power and maintain it longer than one cycle, we have to get as serious about practical politics as we are about policy.
Betty Cracker
I don’t think Warren would take the job if offered. I’d rather see her stay in the Senate and get to chair a powerful committee in a Democratic-controlled chamber so she can build support for anti-corruption and democratic reform legislation.
If Biden wins, it would be wise, IMO, to unite the party by selecting a younger progressive woman as VP, but it would also have to be someone whose policies can at least be credibly reconciled with Biden’s. I think Harris fits the bill.
The “dirtbag left” doesn’t consider Harris pure enough, but I think garden-variety Democrats who consider themselves liberals/progressives do, and that’s the faction that will need inspiration if Biden is the nominee.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: I think Harris is not only a classic VP pick (as the candidate’s opposite as much as possible) but it’s got more power than it used to back in Cactus Jack’s day.
I like what we saw with Gore and Biden himself as they pick a project and focus on that.
germy
Joe believes Warren can do more good in the senate than as his VP:
germy
Jinchi
@germy: Good catch. And I also think we need Warren fighting for us in the Senate.
I think both Joe and Bernie have to look for someone of the next generation (which to them is someone under 60) who could take over at a moments notice. I think it’s pretty high odds that the person will be a minority and a woman.
MattF
I’m opposed, on principle, to Biden naming a Republican as VP nom— though it would be amusing to have Bill Weld participating in the fall campaign. How about Booker or Abrams?
Betty Cracker
@germy: That tells me Biden probably raised the possibility when they talked after Warren dropped out and she emphatically said she’s not interested. I don’t think his campaign would preemptively dismiss the possibility otherwise. And even if that’s the case, I’m not sure saying that publicly was a good idea.
germy
@Jinchi:
I hope.
I wonder if the Republicans want to get there first. Last night I caught a bit of “Firing Line with Margaret (I am not William F. Buckley) Hoover” and she introduced Nikki Haley as potentially the first woman president.
PsiFighter37
@dogwood: Bharara would be a great AG – second that choice. My only question would be if he would have to recuse himself from cases around this administration’s misconduct if he has made comments about them on a podcast, or something similar to that effect.
SFAW
@PsiFighter37:
I was going to write that Barr would not feel bound by such ethical concerns, but realized that’s setting a pretty low bar(r).
cmorenc
NO!
Warren should stay in the Senate. Much as we love her, she simply wasn’t able to attract enough voters for POTUS, including within her own home state. Yeah, blame media misogyny for her fizzling POTUS candidacy, but nominating her for VP won’t change that. Even if Biden won with Warren as VP, that scenario does put Warren’s senate seat (and a possible small D Senate majority in 2020) at risk.
Stacey Abrams would be the better choice who would supercharge the AA vote while also being very attractive to women and progressives. She almost won the governorship in Georgia despite her opponent (also then Secretary of State) aggressively suppressing votes through voter purges etc. And if Biden-Abrams wins, it’s a Win-Win that doesn’t of itself risk any Senate seats.
oldgold
Val Demings should be on Joe’s “A” list.
She is from the base of the party, talented and might help bring Florida’s electoral votes.
germy
Stacey Abrams in 1993:
youtube.com/watch?v=u9Fz6GqjMC8
Horatius
@PsiFighter37: Recusal is for losers. Unilateral disarmament is a losing strategy.
Starfish
@mad citizen: Your friend has clearly had his brain wiped if he thinks that Republicans will not attack a disabled veteran. Max Cleland is a disabled veteran who is alive and was attacked by Republicans. Republicans were also not going to attack the parents of a person who died in combat except Trump did exactly that.
CliosFanBoy
Since when?? They’ll be just as vicious to her as they have been to everyone other D.
Frankensteinbeck
@E.:
I’m sorry, but the idea that Republicans might elect a woman president and especially is not compatible with bigotry. Yes, token minorities who shit on their own minority are welcome, but the president is in charge. It is the top job. Tokens are only acceptable as sidekicks, parroting what they’re told. Even if people like Mitch could see a president that way, the primary voters never will. See: How Herman Cain and Ben Carson got just enough support for Republicans to say “This proves we’re not racist” then were dropped like a hot rock before they had any chance at becoming president.
Ivanka has an extra problem. Trump’s whole appeal is that he is an angry, ranting, dumb-as-shit white supremacist. Ivanka does not have the personality to supply that red meat or validate the average asshole Republican voter’s opinion that he is the perfect model of human being that deserves to be in charge.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Warren is really good at making plans. To me, that means legislating. Leave her where she is. As this thread shows, there are other good options.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PsiFighter37: @SFAW: are recusal rules for prosecutors that tight? I can see where a judge would have to step back
Cause I love this idea of Bharara as AG
HRA
I am not sure if this news has been discussed here. It is meaningful in this discussion.
AOC, the Justice group, her former chief of staff and some members of the squad are planning on primaries against Democratic members of Congress.
Ohio Mom
No, Warren stays in the Senate and FSM wiling, we keep the House, the Senate flips, and her fabulously researched and detailed plans become bills that end up signed into law by Biden (hey, I’m dreaming big).
Ixnay on Stacy Abrams for VP as well. Hasn’t the current administration taught us that experience counts? She’s young and has plenty of time to win some offices and become seasoned enough to run for president later.
I’d like to see a VP who could be “electable” in four years, which I am sorry to say, is probably a male by defintion. Booker? Mayor Pete? Who else?
Chris Johnson
@dogwood: That’s an interesting observation. What I want is, maximum power for Warren, NOT ‘most hyped cool-sounding position’ for Warren.
I may not know what that maximally powerful position is. I thought Majority Leader was a hugely powerful position, because look at McConnell, but I could be wrong about that.
SEC could be a very amusing place for her. Let her torture the banksters :)
gene108
@randy khan:
If Sen. Doug Jones does not win in November, I think he would be a good AG.
MattF
@HRA: Which they have every right to do. It’s called ‘politics’. If an incumbent is vulnerable to a candidate from the left wing, that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
Feathers
Honestly, the best thing that could happen right now is Biden and Sanders appearing together and announcing the “Warren for Senate Majority Leader” campaign. She could be the surrogate and leader for all the senate challenges we have coming up.
A Ghost To Most
@Frankensteinbeck:
Meh. It will be decades before America elects an open atheist as president. We will elect a black Muslim woman before we elect a person not claiming to be infected with a mindvirus.
OzarkHillbilly
And just as the first black president was obviously going to be a Republican, every bit as likely.
Aurona
I follow and #VoteLikeBlackWomen since 2008. Our democratic party membership is 94% black democratic women, 47% white women, 26% white men. I’m white but this lack of color is insulting and disrespectful.
Please, no white VP candidate, this time, when we’ve got great candidates of color. Balloon Juice is my first blog read of the day and I still miss the fact that angryblacklady no longer posts and its all white here, with white candidates. Anyway, that’s my peace; more people of color promoted by the front pagers besides just Stacey Abrams would be leaping into the Roaring 20’s decade instead of stuck in the white suburbs of the 50s.
OzarkHillbilly
@Starfish: Hmmm, maybe we can drum up a fake story about her pushing Iraqi prisoners out of her Blackhawk?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ll go ahead and be That Guy and point out that but for a series of flukes and assholes (let’s just stick with Comey for the moment), 2016 suggests a woman is electable.
Also: four years? are you assuming Biden steps down at some point? or at least doesn’t run for a second term? I’ve had the same thought. I don’t know if it’s in his nature– he’s a stubborn old cuss– but maybe winning once will satisfy his personal and clannish ambitions (Ashely Biden, 2032?). I think Jill Biden may become the most important person in the White House a year from now.
germy
@Aurona:
angryblacklady was here before my time, but from what I understand she was chased out by trolls.
I read her tweets and lately I see she’s gone private. She gets so many ridiculous replies I’m not surprised.
Betty Cracker
@HRA: Some of them deserve it. For example, it’s a shame Jennifer Cisneros wasn’t able to knock off Henry Cuellar in Texas. Doesn’t seem like a bad idea for Marie Newman to try to take out anti-choice DINO Dan Lipinski in a Clinton +15 district either.
smintheus
Warren can be more effective in the Senate, confronting the administration when it’s wrong. If Biden wants to know what she thinks about policy/personnel, then he can just pick up the phone. The vice presidency wouldn’t give her any powers that Biden didn’t want her to have.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
Vhh
@PsiFighter37: not if the Senate majority hangs by a thread
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: a stupid thing for that delegate to say, especially with the race pretty much over
and it was “profoundly irresponsible” for AOC to use the word “camp”
Geminid
My Atlanta friend watched some of the 2018 candidates, and said that as good a campaigner asBeto O’Rourke and Andrew Gillum were, Stacy Abrams was even better. He wants her as VP. But while it would be thrilling for us all to see her on the national stage, she has important work to do in Georgia. She wants to help Raphael Warnock take Johnny Isaacson’s Senate seat, register voters, and lay the groundwork to win the Governorship that Brian Kemp cheated her out of in 2018. As Governor, she can do a lot for the people of Georgia, including an African American community that has been getting a raw deal for three centuries.
patrick II
@PsiFighter37:
And be able to win at the head of the ticket in 24. I’m not saying that will happen, but as the boy scouts say, be prepared.
low-tech cyclist
I don’t want Warren as veep. Fed chair or Treasury Secretary, sure. But being Biden’s veep would muzzle her without giving her any real power.
Maybe if she was Bernie’s veep, she’d have the sort of power within that Administration that Cheney did in the first Bush term. But I think that’s the only way she should accept a veep nomination – with the understanding that that would be the case.
germy
Even Biden doesn’t pretend to think it’s over. (It is pretty much over, but he’s too mature to take a victory lap yet)
catclub
This may be the norm, but is it the law? What would Dick Cheney or Mitch McConnell do?
oldster
We can make Warren VP *and* keep her in the Senate if we just make more copies!
Begun, the Warren clones have.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Betty Cracker: Absolutely
A Ghost To Most
I doubt Biden will select a sitting Senator. They will be too important where they are.
Adam Schiff would be the karmic choice.
Immanentize
@catclub: It’s the law.
Chyron HR
@germy:
“Only Messiah Bernie can vow to elect Trump if he doesn’t get his way!”
Can somebody please get DA SKWAD off the stage now?
tobie
@A Ghost To Most: Nothing would make me happier than this pick. Schiff’s the full deal: brilliant and eloquent. And the icing on the cake would be that whenever Republicans would bring up Burisma, he would eviscerate their claims because no one knows the case better than him. But this is not going to happen.
randy khan
@MomSense:
She might have a different view in the target-rich environment that the end of the Trump Administration would offer, but still that’s a fair point.
Baud
@germy: Good on Joe.
catclub
@Immanentize: ok, who is the attorney general? Who will enforce the law?
I thought it was that law that the Treasury Department SHALL turn over IRS records to House Committees.
Immanentize
@Chyron HR: The Squad is no longer the squad. So if you say the Squad, always please take the time to type that Ayanna Pressley does not endorse Sanders but Warren, etc. Thank you
dogwood
@Chris Johnson: Majority Leader is a very powerful position, but it’s about political wheeling and dealing, and holding the caucus together. I don’t think that’s Warren’s strength. Policy wonks with backbone need to chair committees, not simply assign members to committees
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You all remember Cornel West, the guy Bernie blackmailed the Clinton campaign into putting on the platform committee, who a week later endorsed Jill Stein, all because Obama didn’t give him VIP tickets to the ’08 inauguration.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The politics of personal grievance.
randy khan
@catclub:
I believe it’s a constitutional issue – you can’t hold a position in the Executive Branch and be a member of Congress.
Geminid
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@tobie: Biden picks Harris, Harris resigns to devote herself to the campaign full-time, Newsom appoints Schiff to her seat, Schumer names Schiff to the Judiciary Committee, and Schiff spends the next year all up in Kangaroo Lindsey’s face when he tries to hold Burisma hearings
(No, I’m not serious)
Immanentize
@catclub: The Attorney General is Maura Healey in Massachusetts. The law will dictate the timing of the election that the Mass. Secretary of State will enforce. Once elected, that person will be seated under the XVII Amendment to the US Constitution and the US Attny General will have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
If you really believe that things are currently that bad in this country — and likely to get worse as you describe, I think you should really find a retirement home in the sun. With guards.
germy
Resident dies in Rep. Matt Gaetz’s district, days after congressman made light of the epidemic with massive gas mask
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Do I remember Cornel West?
The True Principled Conservative’s favorite black democrat? That guy?
MazeDancer
Elizabeth Warren can be freer and make much more impact in the Senate.
And we don’t need more white people on the ticket.
Kay (not the front-pager)
I would love to see Senator Warren as Speaker of the House. She has a lot of the same leadership characteristics of Nancy Pelosi. She’s organized, she has good people skills, she can count (votes), she knows how to compromise and more importantly, when.
I think she would be kick-ass in leading that herd of cats to actually accomplish something. Plus, she favors eliminating the filibuster. Elizabeth Warren for Senate Majority Leader. It’s the job I always wanted for Hillary Clinton.
PST
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
How about Bharara as FBI director?
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
A little ironic since Bernie made a point of hiring Stein voters for his campaign.
Kay (not the front-pager)
@SFAW: NO. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Obviously the most important thing is that he’s lying about the availability of testing in the middle of an international health crisis, but…
“the tests are beautiful”?
jonas
Biden would be a one-term president, given his age. His VP pick will be critical because that person is going to be the frontrunner for the 2024 Democratic nomination. It needs to be someone 1. younger (a lot younger) 2. preferably a POC and 3. have the ability to bring along a key state or two in the EC. I would say Kamala Harris, but California isn’t in play and she really gained no traction with Black voters during her primary run (notably by attacking Biden a lot, natch). He needs help in the South or Southwest — Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, etc. Stacy Abrams comes to mind, but I have no idea if she’s ready for a nationwide race. Any other ideas?
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She was doxxed and harassed by the true believers of the BS cult.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why not?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Who is she?
jonas
@Kay (not the front-pager): Agreed. I would really like to see her as majority leader when Dems take the Senate back. Schumer is so out of his depth in the minority leader position right now — McConnell’s constantly putting him in a headlock and giving him noogies and he seems to always stand up, adjust his tie, and say “Thank you, sir, I hope my scalp wasn’t too hard on your knuckles.”
Brachiator
Coming late to the thread, but totally agree with this sentiment.
PsiFighter37
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Is anyone seriously going to base their vote based on what a bitter, washed-up has-been like Cornel West thinks?
Kay (not the front-pager)
@Kay (not the front-pager): What’s wrong with me? Not Speaker of the Hous, Senate Majority leader (I’m assuming we take the Senate in 2020. I think there’s a very good chance of that). But other than that, everything I said above stands.
jonas
For AG, not VP. Schiff’s got too much of an Adlai Stevenson vibe to be on the top ticket (and he’s from California, which does nothing to move states like Ohio or Florida into the blue column), but as AG or DNI in a Biden admin, he’d kick ass.
SFAW
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Umm, Google “Nathan Poe”
OzarkHillbilly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve seen them, I absolutely want to get naked with one and engage in fellatio with it.
ETA: just imagine a thressome? Ooooolalaaa…
Excuse me while I go clean myself.
ThresherK
@Baud: Baud2020! should make it a point to appeal to the electorate households who argued in 2016 about who to vote for in the General Election: Write in Bernie, or write in Jill Stein?
There are dozens of voters to be won that way, and I know two.
Aziz, light!
Before we staff the new administration, maybe we should win the election first? I will be confident of that happening after Bernie graciously withdraws a few weeks from now, endorses his opponent, and makes a genuine effort to deprogram his cult.
Elizabelle
OT, but way interesting. FTF NY Times.
BREAKING NEWS
Erik Prince, the security contractor close to the Trump administration, recruited former U.S. and British spies to help infiltrate liberal groups.
Saturday, March 7, 2020 11:07 AM EST
The secretive intelligence-gathering operations included infiltrating Democratic congressional campaigns, labor organizations and other groups considered hostile to the Trump agenda, according to interviews and documents.
Mr. Prince, the former head of Blackwater Worldwide and the brother of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, has at times served as an informal adviser to Trump administration officials
Kay (not the front-pager)
I think You’re right about this. Remember, Obama relied on Biden more than previous presidents, so that’s his frame of reference. And he is old. He won’t have the energy to do everything.
My heart says I would love to have Warren as VP, but my head says she’s not the right candidate for this time. I go with Harris.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
And excuse the rest of us while we go get the brain bleach.
Elizabelle
ThresherK
@Elizabelle: Project Veritas had…spies? They really called them that?
I mean, The Three Stooges infiltrated Hitler’s Germany in You Nazty Spy, so I guess anything is possible.
West of the Rockies
@germy:
I dislike Peter Baker and loathe his appearances on MSNBC. He is smug, condescending, and dull.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: :-) My job here is done.
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer: yup. Total non-starter
surprised to see 126 comments after this first one
e julius drivingstorm
@Geminid: I think whomever Jim Clyburn recommends to Biden is the smart choice.
The Thin Black Duke
@Elizabelle: “The phone call is coming from inside the house!”
dogwood
@jonas: Chuck has done a good job as Minority Leader. He’s held an ideologically diverse caucus together pretty well. Warren as Minority Leader wouldn’t be any more effective than Chuck. The majority has complete power in the Senate.
Fair Economist
I like Stacy Abrams. Compelling campaigner, from a swing state, balances the ticket for race and gender, and Biden already sort of offered her the position. Could have a little more experience but statehouse minority leader is not chopped liver and nobody’s perfect in every way.
germy
@Elizabelle:
Did any of them make it to Balloon-Juice? Lately, some comments sound like they could have come from Red State.
Geminid
@jonas: In the impeachment hearings Schumers tactical skills could never have brought a conviction, but he made McConnell fight for every yard, and used his time outside the chamber in front of the cameras to effectively rip the Republicans in front of the national audience. I paid attention, and I saw it happen.
PsiFighter37
@Fair Economist: I love Abrams, but she needs more experience. Not enough relevant experience – the same reason I never seriously considered Mayor Pete either.
Ksmiami
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Harris as VP
zeecube
@SFAW: Ha! Made me do a spit-take with my coffee when I came across Post # 5.
Jackie
What about Andrew Gillum? Without all the hanky panky during the Florida governor race – he’d be the current gov.
Baud
Ted Kennedy was never majority leader for a reason. Not the best place for a liberal lion.
Another Scott
No, not VP – she needs to stay in the Senate.
I also think that Joe would be drawn to a sitting Senator because he spent so much of his life in the Senate, but I hope he resists that urge for the same reasons.
Who would Clyburn recommend? I think that person would be at the top of Biden’s list. Lots of people here like Kamala (and I do as well, but not as ardently). I have a feeling that Clyburn would not recommend her, but I have heard nothing like that – it’s just a feeling. Amy might be a possibility (though she’s not my favorite – the country (and the party) is much less liberal than me so she might be a good fit if AAs are on board).
Dunno.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
Lot of the NY Times story is putting info we’ve already seen in local stories into a coherent whole. (For example, a Project Veritas operative posing as a volunteer in the Abigail Spanberger campaign.)
These emails were obtained in the course of trial prep. Michigan AFT is suing Project Veritas; case goes to trial this fall. Veritas is claiming it’s an independent news organization but the NY Times story makes it clear it’s a political dirty tricks enterprise with documented ties to Trump in the past.
In a book published in 2018, Mr. O’Keefe wrote that Mr. Trump years earlier had encouraged him to infiltrate Columbia University and obtain Mr. Obama’s records.
Maybe our finest MSM media enablers will learn up and be way more critical of Project Veritas scoops aka shiny objects for the controversy of the day.
Lots of other good stuff in the article. Will pull out excerpts for you now.
ThresherK
Gawd save me from my Bernie Bro acquaintances. The Bernie supporters here make some sense and it does me a lot of good when I have to deal with this elsewhere:
Kay (not the front-pager)
@tobie: I’m holding out for Adam Schiff as a Supreme Court nominee.
Brachiator
@Immanentize:
Has Pressley said anything about Biden or Sanders now that Warren is no longer in the running?
johnnybuck
@jonas: Y’all need to leave Stacy Abrams out of this. We need Stacy to run for Governor in two years.
Another Scott
@mad citizen:
Max Cleland would like a word.
:-/
The GOP always attacks. It’s what they do.
Tammy might be good. She certainly has a compelling personal story, and is a fighter. I don’t know much about her policy views though.
[eta:] Yes, the VP has to be able to serve as President, so the Natural Born requirement applies. It can be finessed if her parents were US citizens.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
Re the AFT, also Spanberger:
One of the former spies, an ex-MI6 officer named Richard Seddon, helped run a 2017 operation to copy files and record conversations in a Michigan office of the American Federation of Teachers, one of the largest teachers’ unions in the nation. Mr. Seddon directed an undercover operative to secretly tape the union’s local leaders and try to gather information that could be made public to damage the organization, documents show.
Using a different alias the next year, the same undercover operative infiltrated the congressional campaign of Abigail Spanberger, then a former C.I.A. officer who went on to win an important House seat in Virginia as a Democrat. The campaign discovered the operative and fired her.
…. AFT Michigan sued Project Veritas in federal court, alleging trespassing, eavesdropping and other offenses. The teachers’ union is asking for more than $3 million in damages, accusing the group of being a “vigilante organization which claims to be dedicated to exposing corruption. It is, instead, an entity dedicated to a specific political agenda.”
Project Veritas has said its activities are legal and protected by the First Amendment, and the case is scheduled to go to trial in the fall.
Elizabelle
Dirty tricks been very, very lucrative to Project Veritas and O’Keefe, personally.
Once a small operation running on a shoestring budget, Project Veritas in recent years has had a surge in donations from both private donors and conservative foundations. According to its latest publicly available tax filing, Project Veritas received $8.6 million in contributions and grants in 2018. Mr. O’Keefe earned about $387,000.
Last year, the group received a $1 million contribution made through the law firm Alston & Bird, a financial document obtained by The New York Times showed. A spokesman for the firm said that Alston & Bird “has never contributed to Project Veritas on its own behalf, nor is it a client of ours.” The spokesman declined to say on whose behalf the contribution was made.
Lucky for all of us, James O’Keefe can now afford to get married.
The website for Mr. O’Keefe’s coming wedding listed Donald Trump Jr. as an invited guest.
The Thin Black Duke
@ThresherK: Heather Heyer never got to see the end of Trump’s first term in office, never mind a second one.
Kay (not the front-pager)
@jonas: Thank you for understanding that I meant Majority Leader instead of Speaker. I tried to edit but something went wrong. I couldn’t even reply to my own comment. :-(
I felt like such a fool.
MattF
@ThresherK: It’s the classic ‘worse is better’ strategy. The correct response is ‘No, worse is not better’.
Elizabelle
Again, this story is sketching out the elephant discovered in bits and parts earlier.
Mr. Seddon’s role in the teachers’ union operation — detailed in internal Project Veritas emails that have emerged from the discovery process of a court battle between the group and the union — has not previously been reported, nor has Mr. Prince’s role in recruiting Mr. Seddon for the group’s activities.
…. Mr. Prince appears to have become interested in using former spies to train Project Veritas operatives in espionage tactics sometime during the 2016 presidential campaign. Reaching out to several intelligence veterans — and occasionally using Mr. Seddon to make the pitch — Mr. Prince said he wanted the Project Veritas employees to learn skills like how to recruit sources and how to conduct clandestine recordings, among other surveillance techniques.
… Mr. Prince invited Project Veritas operatives — including Mr. O’Keefe — to his family’s Wyoming ranch for training in 2017, The Intercept reported last year. Mr. O’Keefe and others shared social media photos of taking target practice with guns at the ranch, including one post from Mr. O’Keefe saying that with the training, Project Veritas will be “the next great intelligence agency.” Mr. Prince had hired a former MI6 officer to help train the Project Veritas operatives, The Intercept wrote, but it did not identify the officer.
Mr. Seddon regularly updated Mr. O’Keefe about the operation against the Michigan teachers’ union, according to internal Project Veritas emails, where the language of the group’s leaders is marbled with spy jargon.
… The emails refer to other operations, including weekly case updates, along with training activities that involved “operational targeting.” Project Veritas redacted specifics about those operations from the messages.
… Mr. Seddon was a longtime British intelligence officer who served around the world, including in Washington in the years after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. He is married to an American diplomat, Alice Seddon, who is serving in the American consulate in Lagos, Nigeria.
Mr. O’Keefe and his group have taken aim at targets over the years including Planned Parenthood, The New York Times, The Washington Post and Democracy Partners, a group that consults with liberal and progressive electoral causes.
Kay (not the front-pager)
@SFAW: No Republicans on the Democratic ticket. I don’t care who they are. I don’t need to Google him. If he’s a Republican let him run as a Republican. If the Republicans are toxic, let him become a Democrat and work his way into the Democratic party.
No Republicans on the Democratic Presidential ticket.
And furthermore, no more Independents running as Democrats!
jonas
@Kay (not the front-pager): Not out of the question. Technically, the House could elect Warren — or anybody else they wanted — speaker. Doesn’t even have to be a Congressperson.
Elizabelle
Anyway, O’Keefe of course says they’re protected by the First Amendment, describes them as a “proud independent news organization” and “no one tells Project Veritas who or what to investigate.”
In previous depositions (cuz they get sued a lot), he has compared his outfit to pioneering muckraker Upton Sinclair.
Again, trial scheduled for this fall, in Michigan. Right during the presidential election. I wonder if Project Veritas will get a delay.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: I want a Biden-Harris ticket so bad I’m gonna have to talk myself down already, so without commenting on Duckworth as number two, she was born to active duty military serving abroad, just like that McCain fella, and I believe that Duckworths have served in every American war since the Revolution. Just googled and she’s a member of DAR
(Pretty sure McCain’s ancestors served in the Great Traitor Army)
Matt McIrvin
@mad citizen: Anyone who is a US citizen by circumstances of birth (that is, not naturalized) is a natural-born citizen.
At least, that’s what all the associated legal precedent says, though with Trump stacking the federal judiciary and getting his policy from Stephen Miller, I suppose some currently crackpot definition that reads “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” to exclude all sorts of people could take hold at any moment.
Elizabelle
Kind of regret trashing an Elizabeth Warren thread with Project Veritas, but I wanted you guys to see this.
On topic: I woke up mad this morning about Elizabeth Warren. Stages of grief, I guess.
Matt McIrvin
@MattF: No, see, we just haven’t made it WORSE ENOUGH! When everyone is starving to death and dying of Covid-19 while on fire and rolling in shit, then surely the revolution will come.
Matt McIrvin
@ThresherK: …Anyway, put me on record as saying that if I had to vote in a primary now, with Biden and Sanders as the only viable choices, I’d probably vote for Sanders. But good God his fans make me not happy about it.
ThresherK
@MattF: This same person is going on about Biden cheating Bernie and Warren (yeah, desperate enough to invoke Liz’ name) out of votes, and saying how Warren should have taken mere nanoseconds to endorse Bernie, as Warren was always copying off Bernie’s homework, and Warren’s supporters and Bernie’s supporters need to come together to stop the real enemy. (I’m guessing that is Biden.)
This couple have also spent a few months of 2017 posting (not thinking, but actually typing out) stuff about “Gee, maybe this Trump fellow is more moderate than standard-issue Republican X about using the military, healthcare, etc”.
I haven’t the heart to ask them how they got over their case of “Neoliberal Warrenitis”.
Immanentize
@Brachiator: Nothing yet — and no one seems to be pressuring her that I know of? She seems to be sticking with Warren on this issue as well.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: In a way, finding out about the Prince-Project Veritas alliance is a relief. Prince is a scary dude with his mercenary army and shadowy international networks. His willingness to throw in with the O’Keefe clowns makes me think he’s not such a mastermind after all.
Eunicecycle
@Elizabelle: I know how you feel. I was watching Warren’s press conference on Thursday with tears, and my husband asked what was wrong. I think I took his head off; I had a flashback to Hillary’s loss. Just dammit all. And yes I will vote blue no matter who.
kindness
You know who I would like to see Biden name as his VP?
Nancy Pelosi.
We are going to need every Democratic Senator we can get/keep.
Haroldo
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Matt McIrvin
@ThresherK: What I’ve been seeing is speculation about how Warren’s decision to attack Bloomberg rather than Bernie at the last debate was in fact a diabolical plan to sabotage Bernie by consolidating his opposition. Warren is the master of puppets!
NotMax
Here’s a wild thought: pick someone who is not in the Senate.
Brachiator
@Immanentize:
Thanks for the update. I will be interested to see what she decides.
And I guess I should admit my preference that they both endorse Biden.
germy
@NotMax: You’re a maniac!
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: That’s an original take. I think you’re right on that.
Mnemosyne
@Aurona:
I am heartened that this year, a decent percentage of white Democrats seem to be willing to follow the lead of Black Democrats. I know I was not the only white Democrat to wait for the SC results before I filled out my CA mail-in ballot for Biden, and I think the final CA results are going to be WAY closer than the polls were showing because of that.
And I want Harris for VP. She’s smart, she’s driven, and she will attract Black Democrats in droves.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: I think the Super Tuesday states broke that way.
It’s good to see. This year was a lesson in not voting prematurely.
PJ
Since my opinion is just as bad as anyone else’s and will have no impact on who Biden chooses for VP:
VP choices are usually based on either 1) a need to shore up support in a particular region of the country or with a particular voting bloc; or 2) to reassure the general electorate nervous about the candidate’s skills or experience in a particular area.
With regard to 1), there doesn’t seem to be a Democrat from a rust belt state or, say, Florida, who would stand out enough to help Biden significantly (Sherrod Brown isn’t going to leave the Senate this year). There doesn’t seem to be a voting bloc particularly shaky about Biden, except the Bernie wing and voters under 30. Biden isn’t going to choose Bernie, and, for all the reasons discussed above, it would be a mistake to take Warren out of the Senate, and I can’t think of anyone else he could choose that would actually increase the voter turnout of young people. African-Americans will turn out for Biden regardless, but adding an African-American VP would increase enthusiasm, for sure, so someone like Harris would be attractive to Biden, though she would have to weigh whether it would help her chances running for President in the future (I’d say yes, but the VP usually doesn’t have fuck all to do.) Booker doesn’t seem to generate enthusiasm anywhere but the press, and if Warren has a say in the choice, I think she would nix him to do his strong ties to Wall St., charter schools, etc. Val Demings might help a little with Florida, but I think Harris would be the best choice for Biden.
With regard to 2), experience isn’t Biden’s problem, it’s his age and focus. Whoever he chooses should be significantly younger and very smart. There are many people who would fit this bill, but Harris would again be the obvious choice.
A third possibility has occurred to me that he may also choose someone outside of the current Congress to focus on a specific issue as “_________ czar”. Someone like Inslee might be chosen to work on climate change, etc.
Things are going to get worse in this country between now and July, and that will affect Biden’s choice as well.
Omnes Omnibus
If everyone could stop using the Senate as a recruiting ground for VP and the cabinet, that would be nice. Off the top of my head, Abrams,, Rice, O’Rourke, Castro, Buttigieg, etc. are free for the cabinet. And there are a shitload of people who were a step down from the cabinet under Obama who are ready to step up. Why not get some of that younger blood everyone days they want. Also, being a senator is a pretty powerful job – esp. if one is line to be a committee chair in a Dem senate. One shouldn’t expect people to just drop that and take on an admin job.
sdhays
@Ohio Mom: I’ve always felt that Abrams’ path to the White House lies through the governorship of Georgia. And I’ve been impressed that she herself seems to think so too. A lesser person would have let the national adulation go to their head (see Sarah Palin).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this is one of those things that seems almost too trump to be true
Wiki says the trump “family story” is that Fred I was one of the first victims of the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think Rice would be great as Secretary of State. Having that continuity would be very reassuring to our allies.
A side benefit to Harris as VP would be that Schiff could move up to the Senate via appointment without having to wait for DiFi to retire already, but I don’t even know if he wants that. He may be perfectly happy in the House. Since I live one block away from his district, I can tell you that there is zero chance of Schiff being replaced by a Republican.
Kent
Does Illinois count as Rust Belt?
Tammy Duckworth might be an inspired choice and would be replaced by a Dem governor. She was born in Thailand to an American soldier and Thai mother so has the same born outside the US issue as McCain had.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I have been pingponging between panic and resignation. I had a reassuring phone call this morning, then read Helen Branswell’s twitter feed and got panicked again.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I am not really worried about cherry picking a person or two. My concern is the thought that there is a limited pool to pick from. There is a big pool of talent out there, and the House and Senate need good people if they are expected to do their jobs well.
Gvg
Val Demings is 62, Biden 77, Warren 70, Harris 55, Booker I think is 50, Bittigieg 38, Stacey Abrams 46 , O’Rourke 47. A lot of the names we know have been around a long time which also means they are older than I feel comfortable with paired with Biden. We also tend to want relevant experience which also leads to our naming old people. Then we complain about how the old people aren’t giving the younger ones a chance.
We need to elect a bunch of Democratic Govenors.
Brachiator
@Gvg:
I think a VP pick who is no older than 60 something would be fine. Younger helps. But even here there is no guarantee of continued good health.
Kent
I tend to agree with you. About 95% of the big platform issues promoted by Warren, Sanders and Biden are really legislative proposals, and not within the power of the executive branch. If we want new voting rights legislation, a public option, immigration reform, climate change legislation, affordable college, etc. etc. Then we will need badass people in the Senate, especially running the important committees.
One thing I learned from my years of working in government is that you can always tell where the REAL decisions are being made by where the top lobbyists show up. Take health care reform. It might be a 9-month process from beginning to end. But there will be points in that process in which all the big lobbyists will magically descend on a certain hearing room and you will know, THAT is the critical moment. I promise you that every one of those critical moments are going to occur in the Senate. Not in the House which has far fewer veto points. Not in White House policy meetings. Not in public “listening tours” in the hinterlands. No, it will be the Senate for pretty much every major Democratic priority. And that is EXACTLY where we want no-bullshit and no fucks to give legislators like Warren. She scares the bejezus out of them because she knows their game.
If we re-take the Senate and White House in 2020 then the next Congress could be the most consequential in a generation. We honestly can’t afford to lose a single Senator who is in a position to take any leadership role during between 2020 and 2022 because that might be our one chance to get shit done in our generation.
The administrative job worth sacrificing a Senate seat for might be the VP and only because he/she will be the next president in waiting. Cabinet positions? Not so much.
Buttigieg for Commerce
Rice for State
Someone from a safe House seat or a state AG (Schiff, Val Demings, or the CA or NY state AGs). for AG
someone like Jay Inslee for EPA or Interior
and so forth.
206inKY
@OR Soder: I agree on Abrams. She is the transcendent talent of her (and my) generation. I’m convinced she will be the 47th president whether or not Biden picks her.
I also agree that the AG role has become dramatically more important as a result of Barr and the mess of corruption to clean up. We need someone of Harris’s stature. In some ways, it’s even more important than the job of president now. Same goes for Treasury. It is time for another Alexander Hamilton and might be worth the 5-month wait on Warren’s seat. She’s the only person in the country who is up for the task at hand. But unlike VP, that’s a decision that can wait until after the election when we know exactly whether there’s a cushion.
I’m optimistic about the Senate after Joe’s miracle rebound. ME, NC, AZ, and CO all look good, plus GA’s seat if Abrams is on the ticket. The big shitstorm is GA’s second seat (the vacant one), since the jungle primary currently appears on track to have no Democrat advance.
Frankensteinbeck
I thought this thread would be dead, but apparently not, so I’ll ask here, too:
I just saw some Israeli news. Do I understand correctly that all the conservative parties together got 58 seats and there is no realistic way Netenyahu can form a coalition, which means he’s in deep, deep shit?
Yutsano
@Kent:
Y u want to give away our governor? :P
Mnemosyne
@Kent:
I would be perfectly happy swapping Schiff for Harris in the Senate if she’s picked for VP. I think he’s demonstrated to everyone’s satisfaction that he knows how to use the legislative levers of power that are available to him.
But I voted for Schiff multiple times in the years before we moved one block out of his district, so I’m a little biased. ?
Kent
Anyone who didn’t think that O’Keefe and Project Veritas were supported by VERY deep pockets was naive in the extreme. All we found how this morning is just WHO some of those deep pockets are. But nothing else has changed.
Mnemosyne
@Kent:
I’m guessing that at least half of their payments come in rubles. Erik Prince is a fucking traitor. ?
Kent
@Yutsano: Inslee has had a good run, but we need to make room for Cyrus Habib.
Or are you afraid that Tim Eyman is going to sneak into the Governor’s mansion?
[insert snark]
206inKY
@Kent: I think you’re right about most of the Cabinet except Attorney General, Treasury, and State. Especially AG.
One of the most alarming lessons of Trump is that the AG job is way too powerful. We need someone to lay a better foundation of administrative guidelines, and somehow make it stick. Second, the AG will be in charge of prosecuting the previous administration. It’s going to take an extremely talented person to balance those two imperatives. But our democracy depends on it.
Treasury and State are less acute but still have massive messes to clean up.
trollhattan
@Yutsano:
It’s going to take a very savvy Westerner to undo–as much as possible, which will be much less than 100%–the deep damage Bernhardt is doing at Interior. Amidst Trump’s bluster, the few smart people in his administration are doing actual and lasting damage.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: as others have observed, Bill Barr is the face of competent trumpism
Mayur
Um, what?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@206inKY:
I think congressional investigations/hearings have to come before any attempts at prosecution.
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Great tag line: “almost too trump to be true.”
TallTom
VP is a nothing job, and I think that Warren would be wasted there. VP exists to campaign on the ticket, and to be a heartbeat away. In my opinion, VP also exists to help deliver a state in the general election. So, let me propose three candidates for you that might help deliver a state in the general:
(1) Pennsylvania Dem. Gov. Tom Wolf, (PA has a Dem. Lt. Gov) PA has 20 electoral votes and is currently considered a tossup state in 2020 and in 2016 went to cheeto-head by under a 1% margin.
(2) Michigan Dem. Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. MI also has a Dem. Lt. Gov. MI has 16 electoral votes and in 2016 went to cheeto-head by under a 1% margin. Not sure of this idea, but putting a Mid-westerner on the ticket might help with Wisconsin, which also turned red in 2016.
(3) Florida Dem. House Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, former DNC chair. FL has 29 electoral votes, and in 2016 went to cheeto-head by a 1.2% margin.
Thoughts?
Another Scott
@Geminid: Gore picking Lieberman was such an own-goal. It really, really turned me off at the time.
Ah, what might have been… (sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
Starfish
@germy: She only went private briefly. I am not sure why, but she just cannot resist creating honeypots for the Gamergate/Bernistas on Twitter.
Elizabelle
@Kent: @Mnemosyne:
I am fascinated by that mysterious one million dollar contribution passed along by the law firm. You know that the NY Times and others are on the hunt for that. FWIW, Alston & Byrd is headquartered in Atlanta, with offices in several US cities, Beijing and London.
Another Scott
@Aurona: More diversity among the front-pagers is good, and what happened to Imani was (nearly) criminal.
But we still have ruemara, and we have a lot of diversity in the commenters here.
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
Another Scott
@dogwood: +1
Thank you.
Too many people seem to think that just because someone is smart and passionate and knows a lot about important things, that they would be good in a totally different job that requires a vastly different skill-set. (The Majority Leader schmoozes, and backslaps, and counts votes, and figures out what members need so that s/he gets their votes, and raises lots of money, and brings down the hammer if s/he can’t get what she wants, and goes on TV, etc. S/he doesn’t write legislation to solve complex problems or hold hearings that investigate malfeasance, etc.)
Warren has a good job in the Senate and does it well. Her being Majority Leader would not be a good fit for her vast talents. There’s no shame in her staying a normal Senator.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mayur
@TallTom: Potential yes to Gretchen Whitmer, no to the others.
1) Two old white men from PA on the ticket makes zero sense, and is honestly a fuck you to women and progressive voters who saw their hopes dashed this cycle. Tom Wolf isn’t some great political talent and I disagree that PA is going to be as much of a tossup as we thought with the Man from Scranton on the ticket.
3) No way. DWS did a mediocre-to-poor job at the DNC and if we want someone from FL, Val Demings is a more popular, younger African American woman who kicked ass during the impeachment proceedings.
The VP pick just happens to be much more important this time around. Biden’s health could go south at any time and his odds of running in 2024 are not good, so it would be awfully good to have someone who can exude health and competence and is primed and popular enough to assemble support for a strong run in 2024. To me, that screams Harris.
Omnes Omnibus
Bullshit.
germy
@Another Scott:
She was before my time. Question: the people who hounded her out; are they still here? Or did they move on after their mission was accomplished?
rocgroovejunkie
@OR Soder: h-e-double-hockey sticks yeah!
Warren said herself she was running for president not VP.
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus: Anybody that says there is only one person that can do a job is a cultist.
germy
@A Ghost To Most: See: Franken, Al
Another Scott
@sdhays: +1
She could (and would) do a lot of good in Georgia, and could (and would) potentially set off a wave throughout the South. (Imagine FL, SC, MS, AL, TX flipping Blue…) She knows what she’s doing, has a plan, and we should let her see her plan through.
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
Another Scott
@germy: It was a while ago. I think most of those particular trolls moved on, but I don’t want to check. Google knows all, of course…
Cheers,
Scott.
Martin
@SFAW: Obama offered Harris the AG job after Holder left. She turned it down – had bigger plans.
Brachiator
@TallTom:
Delivering a state is not as big a deal as it has been in the past. Also, a VP has as much power as the president delegates.
And, elephant in the room, it would be good to have a VP who will be able to run for the White House in the future.
Omnes Omnibus
@Martin: Turning the job down in one circumstance, doesn’t mean she would turn it down in another different one. Following Holder and simply continuing what he had been doing, meh. Being the first AG after Trump with a license go hunting,* that might appeal.
*For anyone who doubts that the AG would have such a license, remember that Biden has said he doesn’t think it is the president’s job to direct prosecutions. People here sort of freaked out because it sounded like he wouldn’t go after Trump and his minions, but he actually said he would be hands off. If Harris is offered the job and wants to going hunting, Biden won’t get in the way.
germy
zhena gogolia
@germy:
Yeah, Sanders has bigger skeletons in his closet than this one.
germy
@zhena gogolia: Yes, being kicked out of that kibbutz for not pulling his weight.
janesays
That wouldn’t be the scenario – the seat wouldn’t stay vacant in the period between Warren’s resignation and the special election. Gov. Baker would get to make a temporary appointment, who may or may not run in the special election. Mo Cowan was the temporary appointment made by Deval Patrick when John Kerry vacated his seat before Ed Markey won the special election in 2013. In any event, if Warren were to leave that seat for the VP spot and there were 49 Democrats left, the composition would be 51R – 49D during that interim period.
Also, two septuagenarians on the ticket isn’t a great idea. Also, too… I doubt Warren would want the job. She said herself, “I was running for president”.
Barb 2
Nope. Her talent and brains would be wasted. No no no no no no no no. Chauvinistic had idea.
janesays
@SFAW: I’d rather have Harris as VP and Adam Schiff as AG. If we’re in a position to put Warren in the Cabinet (meaning we have at least 51 seats in the senate), I’d put her at Treasury.
Philbert
Sally Yates!
Uncle Cosmo
Disagree vehemently. Not after the Democratic Party has just resoundingly said they prefer the candidate with as few of the characteristics that might convince independents & weakly-affiliated Repubs to vote against the ticket (or stay home).
If a woman &/or POC is the VP nominee, the GOP will treat Biden as if he was already being measured for a coffin, & scare the rubes by shrieking that s/he’d be POTUS within 72 hours of the inauguration.
The Democrats fucking well need to win this going away or we can kiss our democracy sayonara. They – we – can’t afford the luxury of pandering to their own partisans.
The VP nominee will be announced no earlier than the 4th of July (9 days before the Convention opens) and he will be white, male, hetero, and 39-59 years old. You heard it here first.
Omnes Omnibus
@janesays: Yeah, if we get at least 51, then we have spares. We don’t have to worry about Manchin, etc; we don’t have to worry about 2022, we don’t have worry about the filibuster. Poaching from the Senate is generally a bad idea. Harris to VP is one the few exceptions because there would be no gap on having another D in place. But again, let’s let the next generation of players get on the field. Warren can do amazing things as a senator, let’s let her do them.
germy
Uncle Cosmo
Let them. And after the Democratic electorate kicks every one of their candidates’ arses, they will be cordially invited to sit the fuck down & shut the fuck up while the adults take care of the business of governing.
Elizabelle
@Philbert: Sally Yates! That’s a great idea!
For VP or AG. Thinking out of the box, and she is qualified.
SFAW
@Another Scott:
And after that, I’ll imagine I win PowerBall, have all my hair back, be 30 years younger, usw.
janesays
@Uncle Cosmo: Are you literally saying that you think the Democrats can only win if they have two straight white men on the ticket?
Because if that is what you are saying, you can go fuck yourself.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elizabelle: isn’t she a Republican?
How about DoJ Inspector General, the person who I imagine will be the one to conduct the investigations of Barr, no? Lawyers in house? Seems well-suited to her background and institutional knowledge
SFAW
@germy:
I can’t tell if you’re being serious.
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus: Wholly agree.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I wonder if there are any Democratic lawyers who might be qualified.
germy
@SFAW: It’s one of the stories I remember from his formative years. Stealing electricity, working as an incompetent contractor, and being kicked off a kibbutz. This is all before he began his essay writing career.
Mayur
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She is, indeed, a Republican.
Can we stick to members of our own party please? We have plenty of excellent prospects.
germy
@janesays: Anything less would be “pandering to our partisans.”
Mayur
@Uncle Cosmo: I’m taking a screenshot of this comment. Be back around convention time.
Also, if you’re taking bets, put me down for $10 against this happening, donated to a Senate campaign fund of the winner’s choice.
Brachiator
@Uncle Cosmo:
It is a losing strategy to listen to anybody but the Democratic Party, members and leaders.
I think that Biden has succeeded largely because the other candidates were all good, all OK, but none had any particular sizzle or wow factor.
Bernie is a special case, with his own strong core base.
But “electability” and “playing it safe” is largely nonsense created by pundits, who need a theme and a narrative to hang their hats on.
Also, as The Black Guy Who Tips noted in one of his podcast episodes, the Democrats can’t “out white man” Trump.
I certainly do not minimize the racism and the sexism and the anti-gay bigotry that has been unleashed and which Trump encourages.
Still, the Democrats need to pick who they want, based on what they need, now and in the future.
People talk about playing it safe, and yet that shouty semi-radical Bernie still has a shot at the nomination because people are voting for him. And they are not voting to play it safe.
SFAW
@germy:
Sanders? “Essay writing career”? I guess I’m really out-of-touch.
Uncle Cosmo
@kindness: That ain’t flying. Nancy Smash is even older than Uncle Joe.
germy
@SFAW: I’m basically repeating things I’ve learned here from commenters and front-pagers.
How important they are to the average voter, who knows?
Commenters here have been drumming on that “He honeymooned in Russia!” theme for years now. I didn’t know it was part of a sister city program approved by the Reagan admin. That part certainly wasn’t mentioned here.
SFAW
@germy:
OK, got it.
I’m probably not an “average voter,” but they don’t mean that much to me. Mainly because I already think he’s more-or-less useless anyway, and would do next-to-nothing to help downticket candidates (except for a chosen few). The other stuff (i.e., the stuff you mentioned) is just icing on the cake.
Shakti
@mad citizen:
If we need someone to take the office of President should the President be unable to fulfil their duties, then yes, they would need to be a natural born citizen. She is a natural born citizen at birth via her father.
There’s nothing wrong with Duckworth, but assuming the Rs couldn’t find a way to attack her is folly. Rove managed to attack Kerry over his Vietnam service. Trump managed to attack John McCain over his torture injuries. The Rs basically gave Trump a green light to conduct fishing investigations into the lives of any Democrat he pleases.
What do you like best about Duckworth?
Kathleen
@HRA: That’s not new. That’s what she’s been up to since Jump Street.
nytimes.com/2020/02/21/us/politics/aoc-democrats.html
Cue the shiny new Bernie.2.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sally Yates a Republican? Did not realize that.
But there will be an excellent post she can fill once the government returns to sane control. Your suggestion is perfect for her. De-Barrify the Justice Department.
ETA: I wonder if she still is a Republican. We’ll keep an ear out on that.
Omnes Omnibus
Giving the GOP any measure of control over who we pick for anything is foolish
Kathleen
@germy: And voting to ship toxic waste to an immigrant community in Texas.
Kent
When I was working in Guatemala in the Peace Corps in the late 1980s the Guatemalan military sent spies onto the campus of the University of San Carlos (the big public university in Guatemala) to infiltrate student groups. When they were discovered, student radicals tied them up to trees and lamp posts and set them on fire.
That was one way to deal with it.
Brachiator
@germy:
Yeah. Some of the earlier comments implied a lot more to this trip than is borne out by the actual details.
Uncle Cosmo
@TallTom: Can I add a fourth name? Someone I knew nothing about till half an hour ago but who seems to check off a lot of boxes & delivered a damn fine State of the State speech about a year back? Who looks as if he’d be completely simpatico with Joe?
Tim Walz, Governor of Minnesota. (Lt Gov is Peggy Flanagan, a Democrat and Native American.) Six-term Congressman (MN-01); Army National Guard retired Master Sergeant; teacher, football coach(!?!). That State of the State speech from last year might have read the minds of the US electorate when Walz made the case for debating & arguing but ultimately rising above ideology to do the right thing for their constituents.
Any Minnesotans here who can weigh in on this notion?
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
Yahoo News from March 5:
Presumably Uncle Joe is taking that very, very seriously into account…
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Interesting. Yeah. I can imagine that Biden is giving this serious consideration. I wonder about Bernie, though…
Uncle Cosmo
Not quite. I’m literally saying that I believe it is imperative that the Democrats win by the largest achievable margin that isn’t incompatible with our core values.
I would be happy with a competent Democratic POC &/or woman POTUS, & I voted for that in the last 3 elections. But I’m just one vote (as are you) & we need many many more**. I would not be happy losing a single potential vote for the Democratic ticket if that’s the result of choosing a running mate of particular gender or ethnicity in a (IMO) misguided nod to “balance” or “diversity.”And much as I personally might regret that, it’s where we are. You go to the polling place with the electorate you have, not the one you wish you had.
If anything 2016 should have taught us not to take winning for granted no matter how sure it seems – & unless we win big this year we can probably kiss liberal democracy good bye. I’m not willing to take any unnecessary chances.
And let’s face it, in this moment of existential crisis, there are probably many fewer voters who would fail to vote Democratic if the ticket did not include a woman &/or POC than would do so if it did. Since Tuesday we’ve heard from many Juicers who feel like you – but this is a pretty small blog (not even a top 10,000!) & in the wider world (where live many more potential Democratic voters) you folks are drastically outnumbered. If the Democratic campaign believes they would lose 20 or 10 or even 2 voters for every voter they’d retain by doing things your way – as I believe they would – then they’re not going to do things your way. They have an election to win.
Now hold on. Is what you’re saying that Biden’s running mate must be a woman &/or POC or else your precious fee-fees will be soooo hurt you’ll refuse to vote for the ticket, even at a moment of ultimate existential crisis for democracy? Then I will simply classify you as one of the far too many otherwise intelligent & articulate Juicers who believe they have far more political understanding than they in fact do, who let their hearts overrule their brains. And I will resign myself to fighting for victory in spite of you.
Don’t be pissed off at the numbers – fight to change the numbers. But don’t expect them to change overnight.
** During the 1952 campaign a supporter told Adlai Stevenson, “You’re the choice of every thinking person!” The candidate replied, “That’s not enough, we need a majority!” The despair & bitterness we’ve heard from Warren supporters reminds me of how Stevenson supports must have felt then. (I had a colleague once, ~20 years my senior, who said that as a young man he almost moved to Canada in anguish and disgust after Ike stomped Adlai that year.) And yet Stevenson arguably had at least as much appeal to the American electorate as Warren showed.
Uncle Cosmo
@Another Scott: I presume BIden is in fact “taking that very seriously into account.” But my gut feeling is that in a few weeks, when the DNC has had a chance to poll the electorate** (with emphasis on the key battleground states and the EC) the numbers will say that would be a risky proposition. And I am completely confident that once he shared those results with Clyburn, a seasoned politician like him would gracefully distance himself from that earlier suggestion.
We shall see.
** And FTR making a decision without conduct such polls would be the height of electoral incompetence. As Lincoln’s favorite humorist famously said, It ain’t what we don’t know, it’s what we know that just ain’t so.
Uncle Cosmo
Just FTR: Shaky assumption. SSA Life Expectancy Tables give male life expectancy at age 78 (Joe would be exactly 77 years 2 months old on Inauguration Day 2021) as 9.43 years. At age 82 (81 years 2 months on Inauguration Day 2025) male life expectancy is 7.32 years. And remember, POTUS gets the best medical care our money can buy (once Dr Feelgood has his shady arse tossed outa there).
PST
I think Rep. Clyburn is right about the running mate being a woman. Person of color? Maybe, maybe not. I realize that we all over-value that which we experience directly, and and my circle may not be representative of the nation as a whole, but I feel such intense, simmering anger and frustration among the women in my life that I find it hard to believe that it won’t force a conclusion that the the ticket must include a woman. It is at Lysistrata levels, but what will be withheld is enthusiasm and participation; voting sure, but what about money, postcards, and knocking on doors? In some ways, Hillary Clinton and her majority have already broken the spell. Most of the questions about nominating a woman were second-order doubts about whether other people would elect a woman, not actual opposition. I think the biggest reaction among both Democrats and independents to the nomination of a woman as veep will be a sigh of relief. Given Biden’s age, of course, comparative youth and deep experience at the federal level would be ideal, but that leaves plenty of choices. Personally, I think Harris has charisma to burn and perfect qualifications, and I’m hardly the only one.
Brachiator
@Uncle Cosmo:
It is too bad that this thread is probably dead. In 1952, Stevenson only won electoral votes in the Deep South, Kentucky and West Virginia. Stevenson’s running mate was Senator John Sparkman, a vicious segregationist who was all for the little guy, as long as the little guy was white.
In 1952, probably no one thought that Sparkman might be unacceptable in any way.
Ohio Mom
Mayur @196: good catch, wait while I wipe the egg off my face.
You are right, Mayor Pete does not belong on my short list!
I know where that blooper came from though: Pete as VP got stuck in my head after I saw him and Biden on the stage together (Pete endorsing Joe). Those two have great chemistry together. They looked like they belong h together.
But no, and back to drawing board for other VP ideas.
Uncle Cosmo
@Brachiator: I have to return to the Truman bio – I hadn’t reached the 1952 convention when I put it aside – but I would guess that Sparkman was a concession that the ex-Dixiecrats extracted from the convention in return for Stevenson’s nomination.
Brachiator
@Uncle Cosmo:
I’m not sure that they were ex-Dixicrats in 1952. Sparkman was perceived to be a centrist and most, including Truman, approved his selection.
There was some noteworthy dissent:
It is interesting to look back and note the degree to which Sparkman’s selection was seen as unifying the party by the majority.
ETA: I knew about Stevenson being a source of the popularization of the term “egghead.” Just one of those little history tidbits that stuck with me.
Uncle Cosmo
@Mayur: I am not normally a betting guy – I like to toss out bizarre & counterintuitive ideas to jog some discussion – but I couldn’t think of a better way to direct a lost $10 (presuming you’d direct it to a Democrat). You’re on.
I really think the Party needs some survey work here. I gots no problem with a woman &/or POC as Biden’s running mate so long as it doesn’t cost a significant number of votes, I’m just not convinced it wouldn’t. The only way to know (within margins of error) is to survey the electorate.
Uncle Cosmo
But that’s where the party was at the time – the northern & western wings a legacy of FDR and the Depression, the southern component a relic of the antebellum (more like antediluvian) slaveholders & po’ whites who craved somebodies to look down on. It wasn’t until LBJ** as Senate Majority Leader shepherded the Civil RIghts Act of 1957 through Congress that the split between the two became pretty much irreparable.
** Obligatory fuck LBJ!
Mayur
@Uncle Cosmo: I get it. You’re on; my preferences for donation are Ditch Mitch or Leave It All on the Field.
Suzy
@MomSense: First time ever I hear this. And frankly, I seriously doubt it is true.
Brachiator
@Uncle Cosmo:
Voter turnout was high during the mid-term elections. Voter turnout has been pretty good this primary season. There might be votes lost if the Democrats fail to tap into the building anger and resistance to Trump.
Civil rights was changing the nature of the Democratic Party. The 1948 convention saw some Southern Democrats bolt the party. And in 1952, nobody saw Brown v Board of Education coming.
The irony of course, is that the Republican’s embrace of Goldwater’s narrow view of “liberty” and state’s rights was the final betrayal of everything that the Party of Lincoln believed, and helped the modern Democratic Party move ahead.