This take made me happy! Seems like a smart take, spelled out very clearly.
Justin M. Boudreau (@JustinMBoudreau)
Ok let me break this down for you.
The k-pop kids didn’t cause the rally to be poorly attended. Having an indoor rally in the middle of a pandemic did that.
What the kids did do, was absolutely wreck the Trump campaigns voter tracking and id system. Let me explain
X/1
At their most basic level campaigns are about 2 things.
1) figuring out who’s going to vote for you and
2) getting them out to vote.
There’s some persuasion in there but for this purpose we will shelve it.
/2
Campaigns will score voters on their likelihood of support and their intention to vote.
A person who attends rallies, gives money and votes in every election would be an A1 voter.
A person who votes only in presidential years but still signs up for an email list is a B3.
/3
High support high voting people are gold, identifing them is vital to a winning campaign.
Here’s is why the TikToc army did was so bad for the campaigns so called Death Star.
They claimed 1 mllion signups. That’s 1 million highly engaged potential voters.
/4
1 million people willing to go to a rally is the motherload of campaign data. You can milk that list for fundraising, future events, even a 1% return rate on a direct mail would be huge.
The down ballot campaigns will give you whatever you want for that list.
/5
But for the Trump campaign that data is clearly garbage. It’s sugar in the gas tank. There’s no way to parse the trash data out from the real stuff.
Going after those cardboard cutout supporters is a massive waste of campaign resources.
The entire data op is shot.
/6
The only thing Brad and the boys can do is cut their losses and throw the entire last 10 days off data collection in the trash. Roll the clocks back and start over.
This assumes they have backups.
This is the kind of data SNAFU that gets managers fired. /Fin.
Rob
On replacing Brad:
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1274775662235189252
Eric U.
I was thinking this. Very few people didn’t go to the rally because it was going to be crowded, but cleaning up this data would be expensive
RSA
<caveman voice> Back… ups?
But that would have required competence and paying out money, two things the Trump campaign is seriously allergic to.
Calouste
They only got a 0.6% response rate for the Tulsa failure. Less than direct mail.
PaulWartenberg
Now THAT
IS
FCKING
BEAUTIFUL
three cheers for TikTok and Kpop
Baud
So why can’t the Russians do this to Biden’s email list?
Sebastian
Repost from dead post below:
Fellow jackals, I have a favor to ask of you regarding something I saw on Twitter thanks to Betty Cracker:
It looks like there is a movement starting where teenagers are asked to block Fox on their parent’s TVs.
I honestly believe this is the moment we’ve been waiting for and we should amplify it as much as we can.
If you are on Twitter or Facebook spread it to the groups you know are aligned with us. The Beyhive, BTSARMY, the Swifties, and all others you can think of.
feebog
I am in awe of the Teens who organically put this together. The macarena touch was the icing on the cake.
Ken
@Baud: They can, if the Biden campaign is as badly run as the Trump campaign. Logically it must be even worse, since Trump hires only the very best people.
Martin
@Eric U.: I think more than you might expect. If you go to one of these things, you want to be in the arena. Once those tickets were presumed gone, the interest in standing in a barricaded parking lot in Oklahoma looking at a TV is decidedly less enticing. Much of their goal is also to show that Trump is popular, and Parscale’s tweeting already signaled mission accomplished on that. With hundreds of thousands attending, their presence wouldn’t add much.
All campaigns involve those dynamics. That’s a big part of Obama’s huge outdoor rallies – it was us signaling that he had a lot of support – especially among white voters. It’s why it’s important for white supporters to show up to BLM events.
dmsilev
Assuming that the contact lists are time-stamped, going through and tagging the last ten days as “garbage; do not use” should be trivial for any competent database jockey.
That’s probably assuming more competence than they actually have.
hells littlest angel
So in other words, the Trump campaign will be selling that mailing list, for a limited time only, for 10% off. Act now! Act now!
Litlebritdifrnt
As someone on twitter said “if Brad Parscale isn’t heading to Rio with sacks full of unmarked notes right now I will be very surprised”
RSA
@Calouste:
Crazy bad results. It’s like announcing a party where 1,000 people have said they’ll come, and then only 6 show up.
“But I even hired a band!”
Kirk Spencer
@dmsilev: that’s a thing. I keep remembering that the GOP has, or had a decade ago, those competent people. But Trump doesn’t.
I have all kinds of theories about that, but no evidence.
Ken
@Litlebritdifrnt: I think that was Charles Pierce.
Also that it was before the rally, but it doesn’t mean he’s psychic – just able to spot a con man a mile away.
germy
Ken
@germy: My favorite tweet response to Parscale’s lies was “Dude, there are cameras outside showing that no one’s there.”
germy
namekarB
Hah. Did that a while back to my 93 year old mother. She had me troubleshoot some problems on her a cable and I set up a parent control and blocked Fox. I never said a word about it and later that week she called and asked why she couldn’t find Fox. I suggested maybe her cable provider no longer carried Fox. That was about a year ago. Mom no longer babbles about weird stuff she heard on TV.
Patricia Kayden
Martin
I’ll repost this from below as well:
My daughter has been warning me that the old chestnut that young people don’t vote isn’t going to apply this cycle. Young voter turnout in 2018 was the highest in a century, and she’s convinced that zoomers are going to turn out big.
What’s more, she says that many of her friends are thinking about taking a gap year in college since it’s all going to be zoom anyway, and volunteering for Dem campaigns instead. They see removing Trump as more consequential to their future prospects than getting a degree, and on that they are probably right.
Millennials are largely defined by the great recession, and to their credit they turned out and got Obama elected and Obama steadily fixed things. Zoomers have a much bigger set of problems on their hands and I don’t expect they’ll kick back and figure a little bit of voter turnout will solve this. If nothing else, they see the millennials brushing off their hands after Obama’s election and as a result paving the path for Trump as both a massive failure and betrayal. They didn’t crush the boomer electoral hold when they had the chance. I don’t expect the zoomers will repeat that mistake. They are coming for us, and I think they have a bit of a hidden ally in Gen X – who have been so overlooked that we get neither credit nor blame for anything, and a lot of us are cheering our kids on.
PPCLI
This is very entertaining, and I’m enjoying every minute of it. But I hope it doesn’t crowd out our attention to the disturbingly hostile tweets from DHS denying (preposterously) that the Boogaloo movement adherents are right-wing extremists, and attacking the media for reporting otherwise. That might be worth a front-page mention.
patrick Il
@Ken: Not shown on FOX news.
trollhattan
And on it goes. “The Emptysburgh Address”
He seems on shakier ground than ever. Wonder who he’s yelled at so far today?
debbie
They also wasted a lot of money building the overflow stage and whatever else was involved.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Shush!
Baud
@Martin:
For the record, these two things are fundamentally inconsistent with each other.
As far as the rest of it goes, great. Just get it done.
jackmac
Repeating myself from a post buried deep downstairs, but …
The late trickster Dick Tuck would likely have been very proud of the kids!
If you don’t know who he is, Google the name. You’ll be impressed.
Ken
It’s only wasted if the bill is ever paid.
I wonder how many companies have begun demanding payment in advance for any Trump/RNC event.
PaulWartenberg
@Baud:
one hopes the Dems and Biden have safeguards, for starters.
also, that they’re double-checking the data as they get it, rather than just grabbing it all up and then trying to sort it later.
PaulWartenberg
@Ken:
They have. A lot of cities trump has visited since 2015 are STILL WAITING for trump’s campaign(s) to pay the bills outstanding on those appearances.
pat
@Rob:
Not sure this is true, but I found it on the twitter list after the Brad thing.
Martin
@Baud: Democrats don’t rely on the email list like the GOP does. They rely on canvassing – volunteers knocking on doors confirming voter intent.
Plus, if you want a good mailing list, buy it, like every corporation does. Those lists will tell you everything from how old the person is to what kind of toothpaste they use. There’s an entire industry dedicated to building and validating mailing lists.
Mind you, there’s a lot of political consulting telling you they can do it better. They can’t. It’s too fluid. Either you do it 24/7 for years to get a good dataset, or you have garbage. Besides, this is a moment that if you’re target is who the DNC thinks will give money, you’re going to lose. By all accounts there’s 20 million voters in polls that weren’t there for Hillary. I don’t think the DNC will deliver you their emails.
gwangung
Wanna point out again, the zoomers are seeing success for their tactics.
Success breeds engagement…and they’ll get some failures, but they will get SOME success. And that breeds more engagement, and…
Don’t underestimate this.
debbie
@Martin:
I commend your zoomers and other zoomers for having the balls to do what I couldn’t figure out what to do about the things I didn’t like when I was their age.
I’m in a FB disagreement over this. Plenty of commenters don’t think zoomers will turn out to vote “because of history.” I called their bullshit and pointed out how these young people have done so much more in an impressively intelligent way than previous generations. I told them not to even think about bemoaning or condemning anyone just yet.
Just Chuck
/7
Stop
/8
Using
/9
Twitter
/10
For
/11
Long
/12
Form
/13
Writing
Calouste
@Ken: I’d guess in a lot of cases “companies not getting paid” by the campaign really are making in-kind contributions that fly under the radar of the FEC. If you send a bill to the campaign, they don’t pay it, and you write it off after the election, is anything really going to happen?
Gretchen
@pat: paid gig actors would explain why so many audience members were spotted yawning or dozing.
PaulWartenberg
@Martin:
regarding Gen-Xers, I wouldn’t get my hopes up. While I’m an Xer myself I’ve found I’m an exception to the overall pattern of Xers being Reagan-nostalgic libertarian wannabes at worst and disconnected non-voters at best. My generation may be the last one where a sizable number are non-college educated (we came of age just as the Internet Revolution happened) and thus a lot of us are Fox Not-News watching, Qanon feeding anti-vaxxing conspiracy theorists who think the X-Files is a docudrama instead of a sci-fi romance.
Voter turnout IS a must, but make sure it’s Millennials and Zoomers and registered Dems. If you get any Gen-Xers, please make sure they voted for both Bill (1992-96) and Hillary (2016).
Kay
@Martin:
I agree. They are much, much kinder to one another than we were. Their friendship groups are interesting too- fluid and easy in a way I don’t remember. They kind of drop in and out of smaller groups within larger ones. Not as many rigid lines and rules.
Sab
My 95 yo dad just got upgraded at his nursing home. They are moving him out of memorycare into assisted living. He doesn’t deserve to be there (mind kind of fried) but he is sweet and well behaved so they trust him there. He has always been seriously introverted so he doesn’t want out to socialize. He gets the young man aide back who is a very nice person who has been missed.
They will probably have more tv options. Any advice on what equipment would be good? Their cable kind of sucks but they have wifi. Dad isn’t much interested in tv, but I want the aide to have some options. I trust him not to watch obnoxious stuff.
Also too my local pbs used to have a lot of international police procedurals on their alternate channels. Now all they have is home schooling stuff. I miss my Nordic Noir. Anyone know anything about Roku etc? I need to get out of luddite mode, but I can’t wander into stores and ask the kids anymore.
trollhattan
@Martin: @Baud:
My time at the teen observation lab (local section) indicated our newly minted voters didn’t go for Bernie in numbers anything like that age group in ’16. OTOH they had many candidates they could relate to and who weren’t shouty old men with suspect views on issues of race and gender equality.
They aren’t thrilled with Biden and he represents a spot purloined from whomever it was they preferred. I know the feeling. [Pro tip: “Get over it” is not a good tack to take with them.]
They also are very cognizant of Trump’s status as monster, somebody busy enriching himself while gladly killing those he doesn’t care about. Their Cold War nuclear annihilation is global warming and this and social justice seem to be the overarching concerns. I’ll bet NYT thinks it’s COVID and the economy.
Biden must convince them he’s on their side. I think they do want to vote, and hope there proves to be an uptick in participation over what we typically see from this age group. After 2018 I’m feeling like it could happen.
Just Chuck
Can anyone tell me when/where/how “zoomers” was coined?
germy
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/21/brad-parscale-donald-trump-tulsa-rally-covid-ivanka-kushner-rick-wilson
raven
@Sab: Yup, I have 3 roku’s and use all kinds of services . Youtube tv get 50 channels for $50 a month and you get your local networks for news and such.
raven
@Just Chuck: Airforce pilots.
eta I guess not
Just Chuck
@germy: Reputable media should be lining up to have their “accreditation” revoked. Since when was it ever okay for reporters to seek the official approval of the State?
WaterGirl
@Just Chuck: Not sure what to say to that except that the whole point of this post was to publicize what seemed to me to be a really good way of looking at what just occurred.
What is your suggestion for a better way to do that? I clearly needed to give the fellow credit, right?
Serious question: what would have been the better way to do that?
Kay
The Zoomers make me laugh because remember all that stuff conservatives said that raising children to be kind and inclusive would make them weak and “snowflakes”?
What is actually did was make nicer people. Turns out, vicious bullying and ostracizing others is not a mandatory part of human development. You can just skip it. You can tell children “you may NOT treat certain other people like shit in this school, on this team, in this club, in my home…” and they will follow that norm and act better! The pain was optional all along. People get along fine without it.
trollhattan
@germy:
That’s all he’s got? “It was those guys what done it.”
Dude, you have a shitty product and a losing strategy. Please proceed.
ETA there might be something to some folks deciding not to go because of all the predicted attendance puffery from the Trump folks. Was it Yogi who said, “It’s too popular, nobody goes there anymore.”
germy
@Just Chuck: Imbedded journalists covering the Iraq war.
Bush didn’t want a repeat of the Vietnam war, with reporters going “off script”
Martin
@Baud: Depends on how you see things. Is AOC an agent for change over the establishment Dem that she replaced? I would argue yes. She has surfaced herself as a threat to the status quo and embraced that role.
I would argue that zoomers see the Dem party much as black voters do. It’s better than the alternative, but it very slow to respond to the needs of black voters, and young voters. The Dem party exists somewhere between necessary evil and doddering well-intentioned grandparent. The black community demands one thing – representation. Let them be the ones issuing demands now and then. And the Dem party is getting there albeit very, very, very slowly. Bernie signaled that young people would have a voice. That might be complete bullshit in practice, but that’s why they supported him. Dems need to put young people in positions of authority, something they are very loathe to do (again, reference AOC). I fully appreciate POCs aversion to Bernie, and I agree with it, but note that young voters are not irrational for their Bernie support. They are demanding the same thing that POC voters are, and they are embracing the candidate that offers it, and rejecting the ones that don’t – just as POC voters are.
Zoomers are convinced they are living inside a bomb that will detonate on a timer. They can’t afford the long arc of justice (neither can POC, for that matter, as the police are so fond of reminding us). The arctic recorded it’s first 100F day in history this week, and Dems are attacking this problem entirely too passively. As such, that doesn’t make them a reliable partner and so the Dem party is just as much in need of institutional reform as every other.
Sab
@Kay: Who knew?? I used to read my mother’s kid lit and it was so wholesome. Probably why my mom and my aunt were such nice people.
WaterGirl
@Sab: Sounds like good news for your dad.
I’m confused, though. I thought you had already made arrangements for the aide you had used for years to still be able to take care of him where he has been?
Sab
@raven: So how exactly do you do rokus? I know nothing. What do I need. A tv. What else?
Just Chuck
@WaterGirl: I’m just venting my spleen at Twitter in general and how in 2020 we’re using communication tools blunter than I had in the 80’s. The thread reader app has started to make the format at least readable now though…
So for a concrete suggestion, maybe RT @threadreaderapp on the thread? I’d do it, but twitter is purely read-only for me since I locked myself out.
PPCLI
@germy:
Most if not all of the cage-rattling about “violent protesters” was coming from Trump and his enablers, spreading bizarre fantasies about antifa bussing in violent agitators, etc. And the only media echoing that sort of nonsense were the usual right-wing outlets.
Amir Khalid
Off topic, but the Merseyside derby at Goodison Park has ended nil-nil. Sigh.
Kay
@Sab:
When anti-bullying started here it was controversial. This is all it is “you have to treat people decently in this school”. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. They got it too! Picked RIGHT up on it. Adopted that new norm like they had known it all along.
It’s a higher standard but they can do it. Of course they can.
“You will no longer attack that one boy on the bus”. They stopped doing it. Now they’ll go after the attacker. They enforce it themselves. I can’t believe we just threw up our hands and said “well, that’s how they are- they’re vicious. Nothing can be done, sadly”.
Just Chuck
@Sab: You need a free HDMI port on your TV (every tv now has them. It’ll say “HDMI” somewhere next to them), and a wifi connection. That’s it.
Sab
@WaterGirl: I had made arrangements and she is there. But she is just one person and she is exhausted. No backup. Her son and I used to do backup, but the new regs barred us. So she has been 6 or 7 days a week for three months. His floor has no effective adult supervision and everyone is too afraid to do their jobs. It has all fallen on her and she is exhausted.
This gives her a break with not much risk to my dad. We are all dancing with relief.
WaterGirl
@Just Chuck: I appreciate the reply.
I actually googled thread reader for this, and they were going to make me sign into something with my twitter account – which I do not ever use – and it didn’t seem worth it to me. All I do with twitter is read a few people through my browser.
My alternative would have been to post 6 tweets in the thread, which I could have done, but I didn’t want it to be seen as 6 tweets – I was impressed with the overall arguement.
Tokyokie
@Amir Khalid: I just saw the result. Bah. Doubled Everton’s TOP and still couldn’t score a goal. Oh well. It’s a point. Only need 3 more.
patrick Il
@germy: Brad should he pissed. All of that false propaganda about how dangerous Covid is frustrating to truth letters.
WaterGirl
@Sab: Ah, so the “new” male aide is her son? That’s great.
I have thought several times about how stressful this must be for you to have this going on with your dad and have to be at a distance. Happy that you guys will now have a release valve.
The Moar You Know
@PaulWartenberg: Gen Xer myself. I can sadly confirm every word. Most people my age are garbage. I could add a bunch more but will refrain.
Eric S.
@Martin: “My daughter has been warning me that the old chestnut that young people don’t vote isn’t going to apply this cycle. Young voter turnout in 2018 was the highest in a century, and she’s convinced that zoomers are going to turn out big.”
This nearly 50 yo Gen X-er just got chills. I hope she’s right.
Just Chuck
@WaterGirl: I just go to the app’s page and paste in the url, no signin needed. There’s probably chrome extensions for this too, but I figured it’d be good to make it work for everyone. For example the reader url for this thread is:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1274736273769496576.html
Rob
@pat: I find that door count breakdown hard to believe. But it is 2020, so I suppose it could be true at least in part?
Baud
@trollhattan: I wouldn’t tell anyone to get over it, but I also wouldn’t waste my time with anyone who couldn’t.
@Martin: They can support who they want to support. All I’m saying is that the two statements I highlighted are inconsistent unless one is lying to oneself.
chopper
@Kay:
butbutbut…i thought it ‘built character’, goddammit!
besides, isn’t it unfair to all of us older generations who were bullied?
Sab
@Kay: I grew up in a different school district in central Florida and they did stuff your way. I was amazed when we moved North to Ohio that bullying was considered normal and acceptable. My baby sister used to come home from school almost weekly with black eyes. (She is a person with strong opinions.) I couldn’t believe they let bullies pummel her daily, and she was not one to back down.
raven
@Sab: A solid internet connection and an HDMI cable and tv that accepts it. The roku is good at figuring out the specific tv and you can use it for channel selection and volume.
https://www.roku.com
Rob
@Gretchen: If I were a paid actor at a rally like that, I would be yawning too.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@PPCLI:
That’s very disturbing. A lot of right-wingers like to dismiss the danger/seriousness of the alt-right and the Boogaloo movement even after Charlottesville. The alt-right doesn’t need to have followers in the hundreds of thousands or millions like the National Socialists did in the early 1930s to be dangerous; all they have to do is have a few of them pick up assault weapons and cause chaos
Spiegel60609
I’m not so sure their voter tracking system was all that sophisticated to begin with. My wife is barraged with almost daily e-mails and phone calls from the Trump campaign. She’s never voted for a Republican in her life, and would cross the street if she saw one coming (not that she often encounters one in the wild in our Los Angeles neighborhood).
Martin
@Just Chuck: So, I’m not sure anyone knows exactly who deserves credit. It’s pretty recent, basically coming from the intersection of calling this generation-Z and the ‘Ok, boomer’ put down. It’s not clear if zoomer was intended to be derogatory or just a more fun way of saying ‘gen z’, but it seems to have been embraced. I think what really put it over the top is that this generation will be marked by a year or so of their education being delivered entirely by Zoom. So, a bunch of generally unrelated trends coming together to suggest a term.
WaterGirl
@Just Chuck: Good call. I’m a Mac girl with Safari, so Chrome instructions wouldn’t have helped me. That’s definitely what I was looking for. (edit: in fact, I was there before I put the post up, but when I wanted to save it as a .pdf it required a login.)
What did this give me that I didn’t already do up top? Except that it would have saved me from copying the text from the other thread and pasting it in to Word to clean it up a bit.
Seriously, not trying to be a jerk. Twitter isn’t my game so I am trying to understand what you are suggesting.
Cameron
@germy: That’s fine. There’s no good reason for the media to attend these bullshit events anyway. I wouldn’t waste the time, effort or journalists’ safety covering the malicious drivel that spews out of his mouth.
Just Chuck
@Martin: There really is a lot packed into that word. If the term really did grow organically like that, that’s pretty awesome. I suppose someone could probably dig up a tweet or somesuch of who said it first (heck maybe it was AOC) but I kind of like memes with fuzzy history.
(“memes” in Dawkins’ original sense, not fucking image macros. But I guess that’s a pretty successful meme too.)
Baud
In terms of voting percentages (as opposed to turnout), mid-40s in 2016 was the age cutoff between decent and deplorable age groups.
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2016
Just Chuck
@WaterGirl: Naw, I’m not trying to be a jerk either, I’m just a natural ;p
What the reader link is great for is that it gives something to bookmark that isn’t this post (which is awesome, but sometimes you just want the source), and if the thread continues, it will be reflected in the reader.
Seriously, all my ire is at Twitter, not your awesome self ?
Sab
@raven: Thanks. I will be bothering you later.
Just Chuck
@Baud: Overall. Where was the break for white males? Was there any?
Kay
Here’s a real comparison we can use. This was Obama’s 2012 kick off at OSU. He got SLAMMED for not filling every seat but he did draw 14,000 and that was in Ohio, a reddish swing state.
To me it also shows how the Obama campaign were much ballsier than Trumps campaign. They didn’t have to open in Ohio. They could have gone to a blue state. They went right to what at that point and for that campaign was their “bellweather state”.
No one had to worry about Obama’s ego getting bruised so they went to where they needed voters instead of going to a place that would make Obama feel better. Confident grownups instead of whiny, coddled babies.
cain
@Martin: we made a lot things ok. Body piercing, tattoos and so on.
LuciaMia
@namekarB: But if she went to that channel wouldnt it say it was blocked?
Ken
Certainly not as long as there are two vacant FEC commissioners. I hope Biden has plans for that.
Chyron HR
@trollhattan:
Well, as long as they’re willing to be reasonable about it.
Baud
@Just Chuck:
I was just looking at age groups. That link has other breakdowns. There’s a million ways you can slice demographics.
Sab
@WaterGirl: She has been amazing. But we (or circumstances) have been seriously abusing her. I pay her well, but that doesn’t make up for risking her life daily and totally disrupting everything in her life.
Mary G
@Sab: Here is a Roku on Amazon that comes with headphones. My uncle ran wires across the ceiling for my grandmother’s headphones in the assisted living in the 1980s, because the volume they would allow was too low for her to hear, but these days they are wireless. You can get a simpler Roku if you don’t need the headphones, at Walmart or anywhere. I paid $40 at WalMart for mine. The Amazon offerings seem expensive, but they have added features you don’t need. It’s easy to set up – I’m sure the aide can do it. It detects the wifi and you log in with the password and stay logged in. A screen comes up with Netflix, Prime, Sling and a couple hundred other services. You just log in once to the ones you use and after that it just comes up automatically.
Jeffro
@Baud: judging by the volume of fundraising emails I get from him, I think I probably AM the entirety of Biden’s email list.
Uncle Joe, take it easy on a poor guy! Give my inbox a day off once in a while! =)
raven
@Sab: Not at all, I switched from Dish and save about $100 a month! Of course one reason I did it was that youtube tv is great for sports. . . :(
raven
@Mary G: That unit also allows for an ethernet connection. I have one and the weird thing is that works better on wireless!
Baud
@Jeffro:
“That Jeffro is an A1 voter. Spam him to kingdom come!”
Kay
I went to the OSU in ’12 rally and I was struck by how many kids were there. People brought their children. You could do that with Obama. You knew he was a good role model and the thing would be uplifting and celebratory. And it was. His events always had this oddly formal feel- like “pull up your socks! We have to be good now!”
On our best behavior, we were.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
As someone who considers myself a late millennial, can’t say I like this. I’ve noticed that all older people are considered “boomers” and all younger people are “millennials”. The oldest millennials are entering their 40s at this point. It’s silly. Honestly, I feel like the generation model is kinda BS; 15-20 years is a big time span and somebody born in 1985 is not going to have a ton in common with somebody born in 1995 when it comes to experiencing the same cultural events
I certainly hope your daughter is right. Millennials will be entering their prime voting ages soon. Imagine them AND Gen Z as a voting cohort
WaterGirl
@Just Chuck: Okay, I’m gonna bug you one more time.
I just put the thread reader in the thread, using iframe. I had to manually adjust the size of the frame so the whole thing could be read. They are both there now – first the original post then the word
HERE
followed by the iframe version. To me it doesn’t seem any better than what I originally had, plus, it comes with their advertising, which I am not crazy about.
Take a look?
Mary G
@raven: I got Sling because I don’t do sports now that you have to pay to see the Dodgers, plus Starz, and the bill was more than $100 less than my cable had gone up to. I get the local NBC news if there’s something big like an earthquake.
WaterGirl
@Kay: All bets are off, though, aren’t they, during a pandemic?
it’s comparing apples to oranges.
Mustang Bobby
@Baud: Then the Trumpers will do a video with them doing it to the Hokey-Pokey.
Mary G
The Lincoln Project has an ad about the ramp at West Point:
The kicker at the end as you see Joe Biden jogging up the same ramp is something no Democrat could get away with.
MomSense
I wish I could find the tweet that I saw earlier. Parent asked teen daughter if she took part in the tiktok kpop campaign and she said she did. She reserved two tickets for Ray Sist!
Best laugh in a long time.
PPCLI
@Mary G: Thanks to Lincoln project for raising the video’s profile — I saw and loved it thanks to them. But credit where due, it was actually made and originally tweeted by
https://twitter.com/FindAClearTruth
Kay
@WaterGirl:
I don’t care that much about the specifics of the rally. I’m looking for a general downward trajectory and I am getting that, so I’m happy.
Losing builds on itself. It has its own momentum. Biden outraised Trump in May. They’re not getting the small donations they should be getting. They know all this. They just can’t tell Trump or he’ll fire them.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: Ray Sist is a good one!
Feeling any better today?
Sab
@Kay: I live in a mixed race lower middle class neighborhood. We have had a handful of those Mennonite welcome neighbor signs ( like Cole has) up for years. My house is on its second sign ( first one a neighbor gave us. When it died of old age we bought the second sign)
Lately we have sprouted Black Lives Matter signs, which I am glad to see in the neighborhood but which are scary for each property because we do occassionally need the police. As far as I know our police are okay, so it is frightening to think that they might be more dangerous than crime.
The latest Black Lives Mater sign wasn’t the white on black one. It was red green and white. Juneteenth colors. Took me a week to figure that out.
We white folks are finally trying to learn. Pendulum drifted one way for Obama, slammed back the other way for Trump. I am hopimg it swings back savagely our way this time.
Geminid
@Baud: I never liked Sanders, and I can’t stand some of his most hard core supporters, but I could see how young people who were just starting to think about and involve themselves in politics could like Sanders. That’s one reason leftists had such high hopes that he could be the trojan horse for their takeover of the Democratic party. They themselves are just nasty and I think they know it. Now that Sanders has failed, they are quite contemptuous of him, like they always knew he was a sellout.
Just Chuck
@WaterGirl: I imagine one would post just the embed or the summary and not both. In this case of an all-text thread there wasn’t really a difference. When there’s embedded media, the difference gets dramatic.
(Paging Anne Laurie, in case you’re interested)
PPCLI
“a week’s worth of the fake news media warning people away from the rally because of Covid …”
Um, Brad: Maybe they also figured that if the rally truly was as Covid-safe as you maintain, you wouldn’t have required them to waive their right to sue.
aliasofwestgate
@Baud: I am not remotely surprised about that. I’m what they term an ‘Xennial’ at 43. My first vote was for Clinton in ’96, and i’ve voted Dem since. I’m one of the active voters, even if i can’t do much regarding canvassing i’m trying to donate a bit here and there when possible. The apathy the older parts of my generation have frustrated me forEVER. So i’m cheering on the Zoomers and having a grand old time watching this all go down.
terry chay
@Baud: Where is Biden having a free signup for a rally on the middle of the pandemic?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
However, here’s some disturbing date from around the world about Gen Z, from Wiki:
Kay
@WaterGirl:
I want Biden to do an ad with a montage of people at work wearing masks. Because almost all working class people are wearing masks at work. Every single manufacturing facility in this county has all employees in masks. I don’t think it’s a big deal for them. They wear safety glasses and uniforms and closed toe shoes and many of them wear several varities of safety gloves or a hard hat, and they always have. They wear the mask the same way they wear all that other shit. If you told them safety glasses were a constitutional rights issue they would laugh. All these Trumpsters must be self-employed.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
A little bit. Less anxious.
Martin
@debbie: Data shows that for a given age group, zoomers turned out at 50% higher rates than any previous generation at the same age (for which we have such data). Now, 2018 may be an anomaly, but generally recent trends dominate historical ones. Ignore them at your peril.
MomSense
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Same with Golden Dawn in Greece. We aren’t going to age out of our problems.
Jeffro
@PaulWartenberg:
@The Moar You Know: Same here. GenXers are the worst.
Just Chuck
I had no idea T was spending that much time trying to explain himself with that whole fucking ramp thing. There’s no hope for the true cultists, but I think even some of his base might be catching a whiff of Loser Stink.
terry chay
@Martin: All the data shows they weren’t Bernie supporters. Look at the huge drop in that demo from 2018 to 2020 primaries.
A tiny minority of them are Berners, the rest are anti republicans.
Kay
@Sab:
That’s interesting, the BLM signs in your neighborhood.
BLM is interesting to me as a movement. It’s extraordinary. I feel like we won’t appreciate that until we look back on it. It gives me chills. It’s big and deep. I hope people study it they way they studied the 1950s and 1960s civil rights movements. I’m suspecting it may turn out to be as profound. Not yet! We don’t 100% know yet. But this is extraordinary. My hat’s off to the organizers. It’s impressive.
Brachiator
@Martin:
This would be game changing, since older voters have typically turned out in greater numbers in past elections. However, I have not heard much about voter registration drives in conjunction with recent protests. Also, I wonder how the pandemic hinders voter registration efforts. And we don’t know how many students will be returning to college or what September and October might look like.
Taking a gap year. Wow. That could have a significant impact on voting and politics. It will be very interesting to see how this develops.
Jinchi
I hope the Democrats have a lot of KPop tracks ready to go for the inauguration.
Jeffro
@Baud: Probably something in my file that says “total softie, loose with the dough, caves after the 20th email on any given day”
Betty
@Martin: Perfect example today when Nadler said he can’t be bothered to impeach Barr. Lots of old Dems need to retire.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MomSense:
Them as well. I know some here will disagree, but the US must repair itself, shore up our democracy, and play an active role in global affairs to beat back global authoritarianism or else the future will look a lot like Putin’s Russia, Xi’s PRC, or Orban’s Hungary.
Future Dem administrations must focus on de-legitimizing national populist parties such as Golden Dawn, National Rally, and the Sweden Democrat
If/when Biden is elected, I do wonder what’s going to happen with relations with nations that have Orban-style governments, Boris Johnson’s UK, or Brazil, now that a liberal Democrat is POTUS once again, along with a potentially Dem Congress. Probably similar to Duterte while Obama was president, calling him a “bastard” and a hypocrite or something along those lines
JMG
It is problematic to compare politics in the US with those of any European country. The one I am most familiar with because my daughter lives there is France and the differences are so vast. A French President who has a 40 approval rating, which few get, is considered popular. Demonstrations, and not entirely peaceful ones, either, are a regular feature in Paris. The gilet jaune movement, which has fundamentally led by grump old guys, had many participants who as young guys were big in the demos of 1968.
One thing I do know. One reason the far right parties have bloomed in Europe is that traditional conservative parties, unlike the Republicans, will not accept them as allies, let alone as members.
randy khan
@Sab: If you’re a member of the station (and it’s pretty cheap if you’re not), you probably can get access to PBS Passport, which has a lot of the old procedurals. We just worked our way through two English series – DCI Banks and The Tunnel – that way.
WaterGirl
@Just Chuck: Okay, thanks. Deleting the second one now that the test is over.
rk
@Just Chuck:
I saw the speech. Never seen a Trump speech before. He went on and on and on about the ramp and the water. I just laughed out loud and I’m ashamed to say I also laughed at “Kungflu” as well (just too idiotic). I can’t imagine why anyone wants to watch him. He’s boring and predictable, but I’m not his target audience.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Jinchi:
Gonna need a good Kpop playlist for the convention too!
catclub
I hope the guy who set up the outdoor stage got a) actually paid
and b) top dollar
ThresherK
@namekarB: I’d be lying if I said I never took the Fox News channel off a motel TV back in the day. Had to be undone manually; someone had to really want to watch it.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: It would be terribly stressful. Any idea how long will take to get the results?
randy khan
@Calouste:
I’d guess in a lot of cases “companies not getting paid” by the campaign really are making in-kind contributions that fly under the radar of the FEC. If you send a bill to the campaign, they don’t pay it, and you write it off after the election, is anything really going to happen?
It’s actually kind of an interesting issue, but it’s fairly well defined. If you never send a bill, it’s an in-kind contribution. If you follow your usual billing practices, it’s not. Campaigns run out on debts all the time (usually when they lose, and can’t raise any more money, surprise, surprise), and it would be unfair to vendors to nail them for unreported campaign contributions when that happens.
By the way, TV and radio stations basically won’t run political ads unless they already have the money in hand. They got burned too many times in the past.
John S.
@The Moar You Know: As a Gen Xer I concur.
My circle of friends leans incredibly liberal, and we’re all a bit on the younger side (early 40s). But most other Gen Xers I have encountered – especially the older ones in their 50s – are libertarian conservative leaning whackos.
Amir Khalid
@MomSense:
As I’ve said before, those who console themselves that bigotry will die out with the old bigots forget that there will always be young bigots to take their place.
John S.
@aliasofwestgate: I’m a kindred spirit with the same background. We do exist in the political universe – though we’re a bit rare.
gwangung
@Martin: If that holds…damn!
gwangung
@Brachiator: Huh. I heard LOTS in my circle about voter reg.
We’ll see if it’s widespread in less deep blue states…
trollhattan
@MomSense:
More clever than mine. Her go-to is Deese Nutz.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@JMG:
While that’s true, I do find it concerning that a lot of these right-wing parties are supported by so many younger people. In fact, the Sweden Democrats are the second most popular political party among 18-24 year old voters
CaseyL
I wonder how much peoples’ political consciousness is affected by what was the political and Presidential “norm” when they were very young.
@PaulWartenberg: says Xers are “Reagan-nostalgic libertarian wannabes at worst and disconnected non-voters at best” – is that because they remember the Reagan era as a good one, or because they remember it as one when liberal policies couldn’t get traction at all, so it was useless to try? (Remember, between Reagan and Bush I, the GOP had the Presidency for 12 years, nearly as long as FDR-Truman.)
Zoomers, if I’ve got their ages right, were born during Bush II and came of age during the Obama era. Their earliest memories of politics would be the despair during Bush II (Iraq, Katrina, Recession) followed by the uplift of Obama (economy repaired, gender and marriage equality). They would perhaps be aware that millions of previous non-voters turned out to ensure Obama’s victory in 2008, and that actual, concrete good things happened as a result. Having Obama in office while they were young would also have normalized the concept of racial equality in a way previous generations lacked.
I’m interested in what makes a generation one way politically versus another way. Some of it may be adolescent reactive: defining yourself as “not” whatever is around you, simply to differentiate yourself. But some of it might also begin forming before the person is really aware of external forces.
Jinchi
@pat: I’d believe the door count number, but where did the gig actor count come from?
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Much of Europe is still more homogeneous than the U.S. There’s no reason to assume that greater economic socialism reduces social reactionary forces.
Miss Bianca
@germy: The other thing is, aren’t all these anti-antifa Trumpers the type of big burly Sir-men that would have been able to wade through the hippies and libtards, no problem? Or am I missing something?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jinchi:
For that matter, were the “gig actors” posing as fake Trump supporters? That’s even more pathetic because they made up nearly half of those door count numbers assuming they’re correct
Baud
@terry chay:
I assume anyone can give him their email address on his website.
Geminid
@Martin: Political analyst Rachel Bitecofer does good informative tweets as well as longer pieces for the Niskanen Center (her March 24 update of her 2020 Model is dynamite). If she needs to make a longer point she’ll just number a series. Anyway, two points she made last week got my attention:1) voting participation by the 30 and under group increased greatly in 2018, and the trend continues this year. 2) the biggest pool of potential votes on the table is the registered but don’t vote. She says that in 2016 of 7 million registered women in Texas, 2 million did not vote. But as far as “conversion strategies” (flippingrepublicans) go- fugetaboutit. People are hardened into their negative polarization. So its GOTV, GOTV, GOTV! I saw yesterday that Bitecofer is now working with the Lincoln Project. In May her university denied her a tenure track position, so I guess she feels freer to play hardball politics.
JMG
The oldest and biggest of the far right parties is the LePen-led National Front. At first it grew like mad, but has stabilized at around 25 percent of the vote. So they can win local offices and some seats in the legislature, but get shut out of others and certainly the Presidency because France has two-round mandatory runoffs for that office. And at one time its members were young, but as the party aged, so did they. The gilet jaunes arose in part because of dissatisfaction with that party going “establishment.” Don’t know if that will happen elsewhere, but it did happen there
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
They’re like Inverse Sampsons. You deprive them of haircuts and they get weak.
trollhattan
@CaseyL:
Having just learned the term zoomer (who can say whether it will stick) guess it’s better than Oh-ohs. Mine was born between 9/11 and the Iraq invasion so has thankfully faint memories of GWB, and Obama set the tone for her cohort when they were becoming aware of politics. Trump has to be more of a shocker to them than the rest of us. “How do we go from that to this?”
A 12-year roller coaster.
aliasofwestgate
@John S.: We seem to be. Most of my friends are in the same age area within about 5 years older or younger. Some even younger. Considering i’m a longtime anime fan, and i’ve been active in online fandom since 2003ish. So for me it’s not so strange to see this happening. Hence my cackling with glee all freaking day. XD
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
3-5 days
Jinchi
@Betty: I had the same reaction to Nader. Don’t start a sentence saying ‘Barr should be impeached’ then end it saying ‘it would be a waste of time’. If you think he should be impeached, impeach him. Let the Republicans be the ones to fail, if only to give voters another reason to slam Susan Collins for her furrowed brow.
Miss Bianca
@Gretchen: Holy shit, I hadn’t thought about that. But would they be yawning *and* taking phone vid at the same time? Saw at least one of those in the fottage.
Origuy
@Sab: AcornTV has a lot of the British procedurals and other detective series. I get it through Amazon Prime, but you can get it through Roku as well.
Kent
Um…no. Bernie’s failure to bring out the youth vote during the primary was almost as total as Trump’s failure to turn out the MAGA rabble last night. Bernie’s lack of youth appeal was the biggest story of the 2020 campaign.
Bernie’s head must be spinning with how fast his movement against the 1% has been replaced by the BLM movement of the past month. Random BLM marches two-weeks into the protest are drawing larger crowds during a pandemic than Bernie rallies did pre-pandemic
In three-months Bernie has gone from media daring to forgotten has-been. The kids are moving on without him in a completely different direction with different priorities.
Yes you can draw a venn diagram and find points of overlap between Bernie’s Democratic Socialists and today’s BLM. But they are not the same thing, they are not being led by the same people, and they don’t have the same priorities. And a million Kpop fans doing political activism on TicToc is not the same thing as Rose Twitter.
It is actually astonishing to me how fast we aren’t talking about Bernie stuff like M4A anymore and are now talking about things like defunding the police and community reinvestment. Even in Bernie-stan places like central Seattle, the current movement centered on the CHAZ occupied zone is using very little of Bernie’s message and really going in a new direction. How many of those folks that you see on the streets are really worried about getting more Bernie delegates to the convention so they can influence the party platform?
CaseyL
@trollhattan: Well, that’s my hope: not only an awareness of how high we can reach, but also an awareness of how easily and far we can fall if we stop paying attention and stop participating.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
That’s a good point. I’ve always thought that a big reason Europe had such a robust welfare system was because countries were so homogeneous, unlike the US. When we forced government programs to provide aide to all equally, that’s when welfare started getting attacked (or at least gave the right-wing an opening)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@JMG:
That’s encouraging
Miss Bianca
@Martin: Oh, sigh, there you go getting me to examine my prejudices again.
I mean, I get how the youngs might be feeling about the Democratic Party. What I hate is that defensive snarly feeling I get about it. It’s as I’ve been watching what the youngs are doing on their own that I feel the urgency – that we really, really need to start trusting their instincts and taking more cues from them on how to address their concerns as we wage the 2020 electoral battle, and beyond.
I hope Biden gets some really bright, organized young people involved in GOTV and other issue groups. That might be an arena in which AOC could fill a real leadership role.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I ordered a ticket AND volunteered for work at all all sessions of the “Students for Trump” event in Phoenix on Tuesday.
I figure they’ll be really excited, as I’m a 20 year old girl that has a really hot Instagram (that I pulled from a phishing DM that I never opened). Maybe some incel will be inspired to dream or something as he puts together my lanyard….
ETA: I named her the same as my favorite cat.
Ken
Please let us know if they send you an email saying the event’s been cancelled.
jonas
@Mary G: “Biden. He’s not a whiny b*tch.”
Project Lincoln owes me a new computer keyboard and monitor.
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
I’ve examined my prejudices and found them to be in excellent shape.
Baud
@jonas: Not Project Lincoln, apparently.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ken:
I think the Biden campaign should just buy the list straight out. All those anti-Trump contacts in one big database!
low-tech cyclist
This day just keeps on getting better and better. And given that it started off with the news that the whole world was laughing at Mango Mussolini, that’s pretty amazing really.
Miss Bianca
@MomSense: That is LOL funny. I love hearing jackal brags on their young cohort that got up to this prank. My heartfelt thanks to all of them.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
This is like those Disney movies from the 70s when Kurt Russell and a bunch of kids with sparse resources would get together to outwit and thwart a corrupt college administration.
The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes
The Strongest Man in the World
Now You See Him, Now You Don’t
BellyCat
@Martin: Damn good summary!
jonas
I understand why she might have that impression. College students do tend to vote. The problem is, they’re only like 30-40% of their generational cohort. It’s that other 70% that remains disengaged and rarely votes. That’s the problem campaigns have, particularly Democrats.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
lol that’s devious. You’re getting that “nice” Republican incel lad’s hopes up. I feel sorry for any young woman that volunteers for that group.
Are you the lawyer from Louisville, Kentucky? If so, how has the situation there been going?
Another Scott
@Martin: I won’t repeat my Rant #12385(b(2)) about how meaningless generational groupings are in politics, again.
(Obama is a Boomer. Ronald Reagan and Moscow Mitch and Tom Cotton aren’t.)
Repost:
We have allies everywhere, yes, even in arbitrary groupings that might be surprising if one only looks at recent history. And we should cultivate them all to run up the score and more quickly build the future we want to see.
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Martin:
The specifics certainly aren’t the same, but I felt the same way at their age. And FWIW, I haven’t missed a single election in all the years since.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Baud: They can, but Biden’s goal is to be elected, Trump and his people want that list for the money.
jonas
@Baud: Oh, I thought I saw their logo somewhere on there. My mistake
ETA — I see now. They were just retweeting it. Pretty genius ad. People are learning…
Brachiator
@gwangung:
Good to know. Some of the reporting I heard would mention: protests, violence or lack of violence, looting or lack of looting.
Some of the better reporting of the protests would be fair and note that it was peaceful, but I cannot recall any mention of voter registration or other activities.
glory b
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yes, color me not surprised. Remember, the generation that danced nude at Woodstock and protested Vietnam was supposed to change the world too.
All generations tend to get more conservative when they get older. And yes, history bears this out.
Baud
@jonas:
They retweeted it I think, and that created some confusion.
eddie blake
@Betty:
that’s NOT what he SAID, betty.
eddie blake
@CaseyL:
i dunno. first election i remember was anderson-carter-reagan. as a gen xer, most of my friends were anarcho-syndicalists. i was a kid during the reagan era, but even i could feel how stifling it was.
-also, the motherfucker COMPLETELY ignored the AIDS crisis. it RAVAGED parts of ny. my older brother was given HIV by his drug company. reaganomics can go fuck a rusty shovel.
dnfree
@glory b: I don’t know about “generations”. I was liberal in the sixties, consciousness raised by the sequence of rights movements, from civil rights to women’s rights to gay rights and beyond, and the Vietnam war I’m still liberal. But I had plenty of peers who were conservative then, supported the war and hated hippies. Many of them probably still hold the same positions. How many people from my generation actually became more conservative as they aged? It would be interesting to know.
The same is true of this young generation. It has Trump supporters and white supremacists too.
Uncle Cosmo
@Jeffro: I texted whatever it was to whatever the number was for Joe’s campaign. And unsubscribed 5 days later. I have enough problems keeping my text inbox free for important messages without having to clean out a half-dozen daily whines for $$$ – and I never got anything but whining for $$$ from the campaign. I refuse to be a cash-cow for anyone.
LivingInExile
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Pussy Galore?
Kent
@Uncle Cosmo: I donated to the Warren campaign during the primary and still get daily campaign messages from Warren. I haven’t tried to unsubscribe, I’m sure I could if I wanted.
MomSense
@eddie blake:
We must be about the same age, but everyone in my school went fucking nuts for Reagan. It was like an entire school of Alex P Keatons. I loathe Reagan and the AIDS crisis has a lot to do with it. I’m still furious about it.
Kent
I have an aunt and uncle who, judging from photos, were 60s radicals who rode a chopped out Harley to rock concerts and protested the war. Now they spend their days in their over-55 community listening to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and forwarding MAGA crap on Facebook. And they are utterly traumatized by the thought of transgender kids using the “wrong” bathroom.
I actually blame their Evangelical church more than FOX news for the transformation.
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I don’t dispute that. We’re witnessing a pretty catastrophic failing of capitalism and the ability of socialist democracies to adequate regulate it. Socialist democracies are going to look for answers outside of their expected spaces compared to Americans that have basically not experienced one.
Young people in the US are arguing that a more dominant socialist economy certainly couldn’t be any worse than the one we have now. I don’t entirely agree with that because they’re envisioning them running that socialist society and I’m envisioning the usual set of 70 year olds doing it. And they’ve not seen how slowly more socialist economies tend to respond to change. The details really matter on this one. Say one thing for capitalism – if you can turn profit motives toward social goods – they will dump the old system faster than you thought imaginable. Witness what happens when Aunt Jemima hits the demographic tipping point – she gets jettisoned by the corporate owner in a heartbeat.
So yes, globally we’re seeing something a bit different than we are domestically.
Kirk Spencer
@glory b: I don’t think it’s so much generations as a slice of the generation that changes. I’m old enough and bitter enough to say these days in the US it’s mostly white males who come from families in the second and third. The ones for whom gain for all means high risk of retaining what they have.
Note – not all. Just that the slice that changes comes from there, and suddenly it’s 60-40 conservative instead of liberal.
My opinion, of course
edit to add – middle class old white male here, speaking as one who could have been part of the switch.
BruceFromOhio
@trollhattan: Jack Goff. Richard Cranium. Ann Allsekts. It’s a wilderness out there.
Martin
@Geminid: I like her. Shame she was denied tenure, but she’s got a good future ahead of her if campaigns are willing to listen.
I agree 100% with her. Converting Republicans is a fools errand. We deal with them by burying them. Half the electorate doesn’t vote. Your winning margin is there.
eddie blake
@MomSense:
yeah, they straight-up murdered my older brother and a whole fuckton of hemophiliacs for profit and fucking shareholder value.
fuck that shit.
Jeffro
aka “Reagan babies” or “Randians”
eddie blake
@Kirk Spencer:
umm…whut?
BruceFromOhio
@Another Scott: As someone mentioned in another thread,
DEMS! FIRE FOR EFFECT!
Kent
I attended undergrad from 82-86. The turnover of the student population during that time was astonishing. When I got to college the seniors and older students were children of the 70s and still clinging to the 60s-aesthetics in terms of music and culture. Lots of Grateful Dead and smoking pot on the quad while playing frisbee and hacky sack. Mostly studying things like sociology and talking about things like “the Bourgeoisie.” By 1986 there were young Republican econ-majors running around in blue blazers and red ties taking over student government and lining up internships in finance.
Martin
@CaseyL: I think this is it. Zoomers are defined by climate change probably more than anything. They are trying to chart their future as young people do with the possibility that much of the planet will be uninhabitable before they start drawing social security. Millennials are a bit more defined by a destroyed economy and the impossibility of being able to buy a home like their parents did. Zoomers have that same problem, but a more urgent one on top of it. Where the housing problem for millennials could be argued by some as an argument in favor of discrimination (my tribe could afford housing if your tribe wasn’t able to compete for it), and therefore didn’t necessarily demand a collective action solution where everyone has to buy into solving it, zoomers have two such problems – climate change, which can’t be solved unless POC and other marginalized groups are invited into the solution and therefore you have to tear down these cultural divisions which serve as friction and distraction from the real problems. But you also have Covid which is exactly the same in that all of this legacy bullshit needs to get snuffed out, now.
That’s part of why BLM is so important to them. Black people aren’t denying white people jobs or housing (things the loss of which they don’t attribute to the groups the GOP likes to blame, rather to capitalism and therefore the GOP), but keeping them on the outside of society means that we can’t work on climate change or on covid, and those things need to be fixed NOW.
Fair Economist
If the Zoomers are supposed to be inclusive, tolerant, and wise to media manipulation, could somebody please inform my conspiracy-spouting, “Messican”-hating Zoomer son?
Rob
The very latest Project Lincoln ad:
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1274828565385805824
Martin
@eddie blake: It’s not what he said, but it’s a misunderstanding of the point of impeachment. You impeach to document wrongdoing. It’s worthwhile independent of conviction, and makes clear where everyone stands. Senate Republicans neither defend or rebuke Barr. Their neutrality is an asset. Impeachment forces them to take sides. It forces witnesses out. It forces coverups to occur.
You can’t win a political battle if you never show up to it.
sanjeevs
Ted Lieu’s first campaign ad.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1274802232009953280?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Martin
@Fair Economist: These are purely statistical trends. My boomer dad is far to my left on many issues.
But elections are statistical exercises.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
That’s me – it’s pretty ugly. Most of the CBD still boarded up, and there are demonstrations daily, sometimes with some unfortunate expressions of violence. The police are going out of their way to behave in an intimidating fashion (riot gear, MRAPs, helos). Having been on more than a few helicopters in nice, windless conditions, they don’t have to maneuver aerobatically or so close – they could easily stand off further and observe. They’re simply trying to antagonize.
RSA
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Amen. Demographically, I’m a Boomer (a couple of years younger than Obama), but when I look at lists of the events that “define” the Boomer generation, they’re things like
I was a pre-schooler for all that. The cultural Boomer label is a terrible fit for me.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@LivingInExile:
Fiona.
Sab
@Kay: Yes. My kids all wear masks at work. So did my dad. Doctor, welder, machinist, nurse. It was just part of the job. Nothing new about it. Everyone else needs to get on board.
eddie blake
@Martin:
the democrats are still waiting on SCOTUS to decide if they get to see the unredacted mueller report. they’re still waiting to find out if their LAST rounds of subpoenas will be honored. they still have to find out if the court will allow tang the conqueror to hide his tax returns in contravention of the clear letter of the law.
they’ve ALREADY held barr in contempt, but the DoJ won’t ACT on it.
i understand what they ‘should’ do. i also understand what they’re TRYING to do. dolt 45 won’t allow for any document requests nor witnesses unless forced by the court.
that’s what they’re TRYING to do.
nadler is an ally.
Immanentize
@Martin: What the hell is Christopher Newport University? (Where Bitecofer taught). And, she wasn’t denied tenure; the Uni. denied her petition to move her position from basically a lecturer position to a tenure track position.
I like her stuff too, but the “victim of the University” (whatever CNU IS) doesn’t track.
Another Scott
@eddie blake: +1
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@BruceFromOhio:
:-)
I was wrong about the chosen name, the kid’s Tulsa registration was for a party of four Trump voters under Yuri Tarded.
Martin
@eddie blake: Not saying he’s not an ally.
The House has the power to arrest and detain. They should have started that with Bolton and others who are not currently employed in government who defied subpoenas. If you believe these people are criminals and a threat to the nation, stop treating them like you’re inviting them to a cotillion. Dems are enabling some of this behavior by constantly yielding to norms that the GOP are completely unwilling to honor themselves. If norms are out the window, then act like they’re out the window. Fucking frog march them into the hearing.
trollhattan
@RSA:
Good list. Can I add Vietnam and the end of the draft in 1973, which divided the drafted from the not-drafted. One little year (or having a dad named Bush or Cheney) was the difference between humping an M16 through the jungle or trying to land Zeppelin tickets.
There was also Nixon resigning in ’74.
debbie
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Police used tear gas this afternoon for the first time in a couple of weeks, ignoring the mayor’s executive order banning it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@RSA:
Yup, same for me. It’s why I genuinely despised the Beatles – all my music never got played because theirs sucked up all the local radio space.
trollhattan
Please deliver us from small town mayor constitutional scholars.
glory b
@dnfree: Yes, waiting for generational change doesn’t work, just work for what you believe and look for others, no matter what generation, to come along.
Martin
@Immanentize: Oh, yeah, not many universities are going to support that. They should – the class segregation inside universities is terrible right now.
At most unis lecturers carry the same or higher teaching load as faculty and get paid ⅓ as much. They tend to be better instructors as a group as well. This is to ensure that high profile faculty can be retained, but I’d argue Rachel was the highest profile instructor at Chris Newport.
Anyway, CNU is a public university in VA. It’s suffered by lack of support by the state. It’s about the same age as most of the UCs but much smaller by comparison. CA managed to build four top 10 publics in the same period of time.
rikyrah
@sanjeevs:
????
RSA
@trollhattan:
Oh, definitely important in the Boomer timeline.
rikyrah
Did any FrontPager take note of the conversation between Christian Cooper ( the Black birdwatcher) and Joe Biden?
I thought that he made a good point about Biden’s life experiences, particularly his multiple losses, have made him the man that is needed right now.
Immanentize
@Martin: I work at a private midsize urban comprehensive. We really don’t have the contingent problem that so many Unis have (and Cal. Is really bad in this regard). Still, I suspect the problem was for Bitecofer, As you say — no money, honey.
A little Count Basie on that topic
rikyrah
Want folks to realize how much of a zero last night was for Dolt45.
He got punked by a bunch of social media savvy teenagers.
The speech sucked.
The arena was only a third full.
And, the race riot he wanted didn’t happen. The BLM protesters wound up in the Black Wall Street neighborhood and had a dance party, leaving the Dolt45 acolytes in the dust
RSA
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I hadn’t thought until you mentioned it, but YES. Even in my first year in college (1981) my friends and I would argue about the best rock and roll bands of all time, and the list was almost all bands who’d almost all made a name for themselves in the early to mid-1960s: Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Pink Floyd… We hadn’t heard much else. That changed shortly thereafter, thank goodness. (I’m still a fan though. :-)
eddie blake
@Martin:
thought it was discussed on this site that there was no place in the capitol building to put any prisoners and that the DoJ would have to be involved one way or another.
also i remember hearing that the sgt at arms didn’t wanna get into gunfights with the USSS or any other armed administration lackeys.
but i could be wrong about both.
db11
@Martin: Just want to register my appreciation and concurrence for your comments in this thread regarding the ‘zoomers’.
I also cringe when I see people here attacking AOC as somehow a bad Dem, instead of the generational renewal of the party that she (and people like her) represent. Personally I think she will become (as least a part of) the bridge between the past and future of the party.
She is charismatic, smart, serious-of-pupose, an exceptional communicator, and a fast learner.
Yes, she has made some mistakes, but mostly they are a result of her impatience with the business-as-usual inertia that Dems need to overcome with the existential challenges that confront the younger generations.
I also liked your comment last night regarding her ability to navigate social media channels that us olds don’t frequent — and in some cases aren’t even aware that they exist.
We need her badly on our side to bridge these gaps, so I wish that people on our side would stop trying to kneecap her.
Immanentize
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Was your favorite band, Not a Whiny Bitch?
Shakti
@John S.: What is it though about our generation that makes us so? I wonder if there’s a divide between members of my generations who are older than me and members who are younger.
[Reference point: My first national election that I could vote in by age and circumstance was the 2000 shit-show.]
Complicating things for me is that unlike most people my age, I had to (or was led to believe) I needed to make an active choice to naturalize and I’ve never had children or most of the financial trappings of adulthood. Something happens when people become smug and middle aged and get a mortgage.
eldorado
probably too late for this thread, but it’s the phone/text number, not the email which is junk, that is the real prize here. a verified phone number that agrees to opt-in to texts is gold.
yes, they can tell if the phone number is an actual phone versus a google voice or other type of burner accounts. those burner type account can receive texts but are just a step or two above email in the junk category.
yes, the data is backed up. at least the texting side because records have to be kept about opt-in/out as there are real, actual penalties for sending out unsolicited texts. the company(ies) the campaigns hire keep this data.
sending out texts is expensive, relatively, so having a huge verified pool of individuals who aren’t going to donate, attend events or vote is a problem.
dnfree
@Kent: Interesting. I also have a brother who was, if not exactly liberal, kind of a hippie and involved in the drug culture. Rush Limbaugh switched him to right-wing extremist. And we have another friend whose conversion I attribute to her becoming an evangelical. But I also have a former co-worker who left the Republican Party in 2000 and never looked back. He’s a mainline Christian. It would be interesting to know how many became more conservative and how many became more liberal and how many stayed about where they were. I just don’t believe the idea that everyone becomes more conservative with age.
Geminid
Martin
@eddie blake: I would say ‘tough shit’. Build a cage, and if John Bolton wants to have a shootout, so be it.
I’m not saying to drag Trump in irons, but the House allowed a hell of a lot of private citizens, including Bolton and McGahn to give them the finger. If you aren’t going to hold these people accountable, you’ll never be able to hold the folks in government to account.
satby
@Just Chuck: @WaterGirl: if it’s a good multiple tweet storm someone will always ask for a Thread roll, and just copy that. Often multiple people will request a roll up from Threadreader, so that’s what I always share, not a long series of tweets.
Immanentize
@eldorado: Thank you. Useful!
J R in WV
@debbie:
Wouldn’t violating the law (or your boss’s order) be grounds for firing? Every job I ever had it would be!
eddie blake
@Martin:
oh. bolton. i thought you meant low barr.
THAT gets you a shootout.
Nishna
@dmsilev: Since the Trump campaign was so easily gamed, its technical chops seem to be lacking.
@dmsilev:
Uncle Cosmo
And you will continue to get them until The Meteor ends all life on Earth. Because the most highly correlated predictor of whether a given person will contribute to a political candidate is whether s/he has given to that candidate before, and the next most highly correlated predictor is whether that person has contributed to other candidates from the same party.
My gripe is not about getting hit up for cash by Biden. My gripe is about getting hit up for cash to the exclusion of any other sort of communication. They should just text “Send $$$” and save a whole lot of otherwise blameless electrons.
billcoop4
@RSA: You’re not a Boomer, culturally, which is what matters. You’re Gen-X. Obama is cusp-X
BC
The Pale Scot
@Baud:
Do you remember back in the day someone signed Cole up for Redstate or Townhall or something?
Another Scott
@eldorado:
rofl.
;-)
Seriously, my J gets spam SMS messages all the time and Verizon says they can’t do anything about it.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Martin: The House doesn’t enforce the laws.
You know this.
Cheers,
Scott.
eddie blake
@Another Scott:
+1, another scott.
Geminid
@Martin: I read an interview with Rachel Bitecoffer describing the moment when sitting in her car, listening to the radio, she heard Rachel Maddow mention that she had a Ph. D. in political science. The light bulb lit, and Bitecoffer set out to earn her Ph.D. at the University of Georgia. Six years later she made her name when 6 months before the 2018 mid-terms she said her election model forecasted aDemocratic pickup of 42 congressional seats. She was pooh poohed as a nobody, but when the counting was over the Democrats picked up 41( Bitecoffer says they left several on the table for lack of trying). She says that the tenure track decision “stings,” but I think she knows she has a bright future. There are players in the political-industrial complex who make ten times the money she makes and know half as much. Or worse, know the wrong things.
Omnes Omnibus
Let’s see…. Generational shit posting. Calling out Congress for not doing things that aren’t its job. Well done, people.
The Pale Scot
@RSA: I’ve always said that a boomer is somebody who had a driver’s license during the oil embargo. the difference between what my cohort had and what their slightly older siblings had is stark. We just didn’t realize it ’till later
frosty
@The Pale Scot: For Boomers, I’ve used the metric of draft age for Vietnam, which almost matches yours. 1973 – 16 = 1957. 1973-18 = 1955. Close enough.
Definitely not 1964, which is when the population and birth demographics changed.
eldorado
@Another Scott:
those spam messages aren’t coming from the businesses that do this sort of large scale marketing. there are all sorts of legal agreements in place. i have worked in this exact space and have seen simple operational errors result in huge problems.
J R in WV
@Uncle Cosmo:
This is stone incorrect. With all Democratic candidates I have contributed to, if you use the unsubscribe function, you will never hear from that candidate again.
Also, this evening while dinner was reheating (left over cauliflower casserole) we got a phone call from a candidate we had helped out earlier. She was very grateful, and expressed that gratitude. I thanked her for her work for all of us.
I wonder who Uncle Cosmo plans to vote for… he appears to hate Democratic candidates en mass.
Glidwrith
@WaterGirl:
@WaterGirl:
Kay
I was pleased no one came to the rally and they bragged about it so much, but what I’m relieved about is Biden is ahead of Trump because I cannot imagine how upset Democrats would be if Trump was ahead of Biden right now.
The keening. The caterwauling. I don’t think we’d get through it. We’re all wrecks and we’re 8 points ahead. Imagine the reverse :)
Gemina13
@The Moar You Know: I don’t know about you guys, but I guess I just got lucky. Most of my fellow Gen-X friends are leftie liberals who supported Obama, eagerly supported Liz Warren, are getting as active as we can in recent BLM protests and GOTV efforts, and happy to see the Zoomers joining in.
Not all of us were blinkered by the Reagan bullshit. A lot of us were clear-sighted from the start, whether we grew up in middle class families, or were dirt poor and getting pissed on by Ronnie’s “trickle down” voodoo economics.
Another Scott
@eldorado: We’re talking past each other, and I’m pulling your chain.
I don’t doubt that legitimate businesses, campaigns, etc., could get in trouble by sending out SMS spam messages.
But, as a general rule, there’s nothing that can be done by normal customers about generic SMS spam (because, among other things, the phone companies don’t have to care). E.g.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/09/sms-spammers-doxxed/
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
mrmoshpotato
Aaaaawwwww……Trump Trash and Brad the Bitchwaffle got bitchslapped by a bunch of tweens!
SAD!
GOOD JOB, KIDS! KEEP IT UP!
Tim Ellis
Campaign manager and data tech here. While this is all largely accurate, they don’t need backups to resolve it – data 101 says they should have assigned a unique tag to the landing page for the event, which attaches itself to every record that comes through that portal. Its then pretty easy to just toss anyone who has that event tag and no other activity.
Now, did they do this basic step? I would have, most pros would have, but would Parscale?
I give it 50/50 lol
louc
This, this, this. As a late Boomer, I’ve been annoyed about being lumped in with people 15 years older than me who had to worry about being drafted for Vietnam and were old enough to participate in protests and the summer of love and all that.
Though my late Boomer cohort, sadly, came of age as Reagan came to office and were more likely to take the Preppy Handbook seriously than hippies and were less likely to remember Watergate.