I don’t have a link yet, but I’ll update this when it comes through. I’m thinking this is the first of many more.
Update: Here’s the Guardian.
by @heymistermix.com| 130 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
I don’t have a link yet, but I’ll update this when it comes through. I’m thinking this is the first of many more.
Update: Here’s the Guardian.
Comments are closed.
LAO
Nobody’s surprised right?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Whatever happened to the PA state charges– conspiracy to kidnap and essentially render a Turkish dissident, IIRC– looming over Flynn and his son?
Sm*t Cl*de
Hard to claim that Flynn is an innocent, vindicated man after that.
dmsilev
Well, looking for the silver lining in the cloud, at least this means Trump is lurching towards Acceptance in the post-electoral stages of grief.
geg6
Not surprising but still disgusting. Flynn is a traitor to his oath and his country.
germy
Emma from FL
@Sm*t Cl*de: Yep. He’s a confirmed criminal now.
PsiFighter37
Still makes him a traitor.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@LAO: I’ve often said we need a word for “shocking but not surprising”. At this point, this wouldn’t even qualify for that category.
My new theory is trump has been persuaded not to announce his self-pardon– cause you know he wants to rub all our faces in it– until after the GA special, especially with the new news about Perdue.
SiubhanDuinne
Not the tiniest bit surprised, except that it took as long as it did.
If Trump had won reëlection, would he have waited until Thanksgiving 2024 to pardon Flynn?
scav
Just another turkey getting pardoned. A flock should follow. Just call him cob.
germy
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve obviously missed something, and I live in Georgia. What’s he done now?
germy
There’s always a tweet:
scav
Should probably start working up the lyrics for The Twelve Days of Pardons.
MattF
It should not be forgotten that Flynn is a lunatic.
Major Major Major Major
Honestly I’m not sure I care. This was obviously going to happen, if not now then by the next GOP prez who will bring Flynn into the admin out of spite. idk. Not trying to insult anybody else for caring, it’s worth caring about…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne:
jonas
I’m old enough to remember when Republicans completely lost their shit over Bill Clinton’s pardon of Marc Rich. Good times.
germy
LAO
@MattF: He’s a real hero to the Q crowd, IIRC
germy
Sm*t Cl*de
I had forgotten the role of Totally-not-a-Trump-lawyer Sidney Powell — previously Flynn’s lawyer — in trying to make the charges against him go away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Powell#Michael_Flynn
RandomMonster
The Pardon Parade at least confirms that Dump knows he’s done.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
Probably. Trump would want to keep Flynn dangling in case he needed “something.”
PsiFighter37
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Perdue is a bonified crook. I still don’t understand how neither he nor Loeffler are not doing any time for their blatant insider trading. We fucking sent Martha Stewart to prison for this shit (well, for lying about it, but still)!
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
So both Purdue and Loefler = Inside Traders?
debbie
@germy:
IOW, Trump’s soulmate.
TriassicSands
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Of course, nothing he does comes as a surprise, but does anything Trump does have the capacity to “shock?”
The only things Trump could do that would either surprise or shock us — a short list:
1. Act like a decent human being.
2. Apologize — for anything — or admit error.
3. Admit he shouldn’t lie all the time about everything. Or just tell the truth…once.
4. He could have both surprised and shocked us by conceding the election when it was first clear that he had lost.
5. Retire quietly and disappear from public view.
Never happen. Anything that could either shock or surprise us is impossible for Trump to do. Another way to express that is to say that only responsible, intelligent, and/or decent behavior could surprise or shock us and Trump is utterly incapable of any such behavior.
scav
@scav: It’s also got a bit of the K-Tel vibe. Relive all the crimes of the Trump Years! Do you remember? Original Hits! Original Stars!
jonas
What are the odds that Kyle Rittenhouse ends up being one of his final pardons?
Baud
@jonas:
He’s up on state crimes.
JPL
@PsiFighter37: Who’s to say the cases won’t be opene
jonas
@PsiFighter37: IOKIYAR. In fact, blatant corruption is basically essential branding for Republicans now. Been indicted? That’s even more authenticity!
Omnes Omnibus
Monster behaves monstrously. News at 11:00.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What news about Perdue?
Omnes Omnibus
@jonas: State crimes.
geg6
@jonas:
I believe the state is prosecuting him. Too bad, so sad for Kyle the State Border Crossing Murderer.
Amir Khalid
@PsiFighter37:
Did you mean bona fide?
schrodingers_cat
What do Balloon Juice veterans think of Flynn?
jonas
Of course, Flynn can now be made to testify fully about what he knew about the Trump campaign’s coordination with Russia during the transition.
Amir Khalid
A second-string Liverpool side is losing 0-2 at home to Atalanta. Woe is me.
WaterGirl
@debbie: We have known about the inside trading for months. It surely didn’t affect the Nov 3 election, why would it matter now?
Asking everyone, not just debbie.
Baud
@jonas:
And then when he lies about it, Biden’s DOJ can send him to prison.
Felanius Kootea
I knew this would happen and he’ll pardon some more odious people, so honestly I’m kind of numb when it comes to the outgoing president’s antics. Thank God he’s on his way out.
I am really saddened by the news (NYT link) of Honestie Hodges’ passing. Dead from COVID-19 at the age of 14! Her grandmother says she had no underlying conditions. She first came to the world’s attention at the age of 11 when she was handcuffed by Grand Rapids, MI police for walking out of her home just at the time that police were looking for a 40 year old woman involved in a stabbing. After telling her mother to shut up and stop yelling that her daughter was just 11, the officers held her in the back of a squad car, figured out that she wasn’t 40 and hadn’t stabbed anyone and let her go. No one was disciplined because there were no rules against handcuffing 11 year olds at the time. That, at least, has changed.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: He’s a general, so we must love him, right?
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m with you. I just watched Biden’s speech, and I want to keep him and Harris and their whole wonderful crew in my mind, not this pack of traitors and cretins.
H.E.Wolf
Or perhaps “baculum”?
OzarkHillbilly
There goes his 5th Amendment rights.
raven
@schrodingers_cat: He’s a fucking asshole
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Ain’t life a bitch.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Ossoff and Warnock should be very vocal about both of their opponents clearly being “a part of the swamp.”
dr. bloor
The pardon certainly isn’t a surprise, although I suspect Flynn belongs on a list of guys for whom the criminal justice system did not pose the gravest threat to his well-being, anyways.
JMG
Flynn is just dumb/deranged enough to commit more crimes once Trump is out of office.
Mary G
@LAO: Haven’t had a chance to tell you I’m glad you’re here again, and that Maggie has you wrapped around her little paw.
Not a surprise, and I imagine some overseas betting market is wagering on who will be next. Flynn is trash, so of course he goes first.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: You are putting words in my mouth. I was just curious as to how he is perceived among veterans and active duty military personnel.
ETA: if I had to guess I would think he would be held in rather low esteem.
eric
@OzarkHillbilly: It is worse than that….and the same will hold true for Trump if he pardons himself. You can pardon only for past crimes and you lose 5th amendment protections. You cannot pardon for future crimes, such as lying to investigators. Putting aside Flynn, is there anyone on earth that would believe Trump is capable of NOT lying when asked in an investigation? He will lie because that is what he does. Those crimes are real and I am SURE that he will lie about things that investigators have locked down well before they ever ask Trump. Thus, I am in the minority who says Trump will NOT pardon himself. If he does, well, then he is an idiot.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Yes. Ain’t nothing we can do about the pardon power. This injustice was baked in in 2016.
germy
@schrodingers_cat:
Not a balloon-juicer, but see comment #20 above.
Omnes Omnibus
@eric: But he is an idiot.
Baud
I believe now that Flynn is pardoned, the prosecution records can be FOIA’d.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I wasn’t aware of that. Cool.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mary G:
My money’s on Manafort, since Stone IIRC has refused a pardon. Rick Gates– isn’t that his name? Manafort’s number two– made a couple media appearances a while back where he made all the noises about rigged investigations and witch-hunt, so he hasn’t given up.
jonas
@Omnes Omnibus:
@Baud:
Oh, that’s right. Too bad for him.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not 100% sure, but it’s usually easier after a case is over.
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: I kind of like “bonified”. laughing
Mike in NC
“Lock him up!”
mad citizen
It should be more ammunition that Dem candidates can use to argue against any Republican in future campaigns, but it’s so far down the list of bullshit it probably won’t be mentioned by many in the After Times.
cintibud
If Flynn and/or Trump start loudly proclaiming Flynn’s innocence, does that negate the pardon?
ETA because you know that Trump is definitely going to do that
Mary G
O/T, but Newsmax called the election for Biden, and hilarity ensued:
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I hope that’s correct. Unintended consequences.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: Thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
@cintibud: No.
Mary G
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: One person I assume will be left out is Michael Cohen.
Amir Khalid
@eric:
Trump is an idiot. He might well pardon himself, even if advised against it.
cintibud
@Omnes Omnibus: Too bad. Then again, you know no one was treated more unfairly, believe me
MattF
It wouldn’t surprise me if Trump declared a blanket pardon— everyone, including himself. It would tie up the federal legal system for centuries.
JPL
@debbie: They are. Perdue has refused not only debates, but interviews with MSM. He’s hoping that his duck and cover approach will work. It did during the primary, and the only reason there is a runoff is because the Libertarian candidate received votes. Loeffler is a witch.
Cheryl Rofer
The wording of the pardon will matter. Emptywheel has written a bit about this, but there’s a lot more.
There’s Flynn’s presence at Vladimir Putin’s head table at a celebration for RT.
There’s the phonecalls to Ambassador Kislyak during the Obama-Trump transition, which is part of the immensely tangled legal situation before Judge Emmet Sullivan.
There’s some dodgy dealings based on a grand nuclear deal in the Middle East that hasn’t gotten as much attention as it deserves. I’ve been working on that. Here’s an article from a week or so ago.
I’ll be writing more.
Wapiti
@jonas: His testimony will be key to the criminal charges against his son (which were held based upon his guilty plea).
MattF
@Mary G: So, now it’s just Putin. And, maybe, OANN.
natem
Can’t wait to see the inevitable intra-party fights when Perdue and Loeffler lose after Trump and Rudy shit all over the entire voting process.
trollhattan
“Listen, about that ‘pleading guilty twice’ thing.”
Kent
This. Any Grand Jury or Congressional Investigation can put him under the Klieg lights and if he so much as bends the truth in any way they can prosecute him for perjury. And if he refuses to be 100% forthcoming they can prosecute him for obstruction of justice.
Pardon means no taking the 5th or refusing to testify about any crime he was pardoned for.
sab
@Amir Khalid: Especially if he is advised against it.
Kent
I hope they have guys dressed up in chicken suits following him around to every single event and standing out in front of his office and campaign HQ.
That’s what I would do. It is especially apropros with Perdue because of Perdue Chicken. Although I understand there is not family connection and Perdue Chicken is from MD.
trollhattan
As a refresher and especially for those of us who did not know who he was beforehand, Flynn’s 2016 RNC speech.
Any thoughts Trump might form a normal, coherent cabinet should he be elected (me: “as if”) were flung aside after watching that performance.
Kent
I think he will. And then if it gets challenged by some DOJ investigation he’ll go running to SCOTUS to uphold his auto-Pardon. He probably (correctly) figures that he can drag out an extra 5 years worth of legal proceedings just on the topic of whether or not a self-pardon is legit or not. It’s just one more way to gum up any investigations of him and run out the clock.
Remember, pardon’s don’t just erase convictions. They stop investigations as well. That would be the point. To pull the plug on “pointless” investigations.
Trump has a feral sense for gumming up legal proceedings.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m not sure what’s new there, though. Feel as though this is all well-worn information. But thanks.
rikyrah
@geg6:
TRUTH ?
Kent
This.
Isn’t in wonderful to be on offense rather than defense finally? It makes all the difference in the world. These pardons are a defensive move, not an offensive move. We finally have the initiative in determining the direction of the country.
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
Yeah, like testifying before Congress under oath means something.
David ?Booooooo!? Koch
Dump just pardoned Lt. Lois Einhorn
SiubhanDuinne
@jonas:
I should think the odds there are excellent.
SiubhanDuinne
O/T. I’m a fan of Harry Truman, but I’m already sick to death of Joe Scarborough’s book tour, and his Truman book was only published yesterday.
Jeffro
Hmmm…I think I’m going to add “remove presidential pardon power” to my Constitutional amendment wish list. C’mon Santa!
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
I have a Truman book I’m halfway through. I need to go finish it. Not going to read JS.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne:
Fixed it for ya.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
It’s actually supposed to be a pretty good book. But Joe annoys the fuck out of me at the best of times, so I shan’t be reading it either.
SiubhanDuinne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Greatly improved. Thanks.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: Perdue said he was not involved in the trade, but they found personal emails showing otherwise.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: I thought the emails between Perdue and the CEO were new. But I used to read. Now I skim.
trollhattan
@trollhattan:
There’s a transcript of Flynn’s ’16 speech. Here’s the closing.
And scene.
Frankensteinbeck
@SiubhanDuinne:
Under Biden’s Department of Justice? Yes, it’s likely to be something you don’t want to risk perjuring yourself during. Trump’s goons have been getting away with things because they temporarily owned the enforcement mechanism.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: It pains me to think how easy it is for someone like him to get published, even more because he’s a TeeVee host than because he’s an ex-congresscritter, I suspect.
Tweety used to churn out book-like products from time to time. I remember one of them, I think a study of Nixon and Kennedy, along the theme of the Golden Boy vs the Orthogonian, getting a cuttingly dismissive review from the NYT, as an overwritten undergrad paper worthy of, perhaps, a B. He was said to have carried that grudge for a long, long time.
Ksmiami
@SiubhanDuinne: he directed the death profiteering stock trades himself unlike his original claim that it was a passive investment move
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
FYI, David Susskind’s 1961 extensive interview with Truman available on Prime, listed as Give ’em Hell, Harry. Not to be confused with the James Whitmore movie of the same title.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh god. I’m going to have to commit another parody, I can tell. (Yes, Omnes, I know you hate musical theatre, but this is GILBERT AND SULLIVAN, so that makes it special.)
(Honestly, one of my favourite songs of the entire G&S canon. Brilliant lyrics by Gilbert, and a lovely, moving, singable setting by Sullivan.)
NotMax
Have long felt that Flynn and Michele Bachmann share custody of the same set of sanity-free zone eyes.
Aleta
How often have Presidents pardoned high up officials who worked for them?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I actually did not want to be reminded of Tweety.
kindness
There is one benefit to Flynn having been pardoned by Trump. Now, if he is brought in for questioning regarding any of the things he was pardoned for, he can no longer plead the 5th. He is now forced to answer or face Contempt charges. Would he answer truthfully? I wouldn’t bet on it. But he has to testify.
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
I think it was Charlie Pierce who always used to refer to Bachmann as “the girl with the faraway eyes.” You’re quite right, Flynn has them too. Never consciously noticed that before.
Aleta
@Aleta: Trump pardoned Scooter Libby (Bush refused to) btw.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Aleta: Not often, Obama didn’t even pardon Hillary for her email server management, which I’ve been informed is the crime of the century.
Aleta
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I hope Biden pardons Obama for wearing a tan suit.
Kent
And if he doesn’t answer completely truthfully he gets prosecuted for perjury. Pardons don’t excuse you from future crimes.
patrick II
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Jon Stewart interviewed Chris Mathews on The Daily Show during Chris’s book tour for “Life’s a Campaign: What Politics Has Taught Me About Friendship, Rivalry, Reputation, and Success “. Jon ripped him for the basic theme of the book — that we should be more like politicians and lie and scheme more. Chris was flabbergasted that anyone could think ill of that advice, and later on his own show said maybe Jon didn’t like him because Chris was so much taller.
Steve in the ATL
@Amir Khalid: has Liverpool tried distracting Atalanta by dropping golden apples?
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
This former USN deck ape thinks Flynn is a stone traitor. But I’m also a former hippy and draft avoider by enlisting in the Navy.
Fuck Flynn and the president who pardoned him!
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
I’ll have a look, thanks.
debbie
@Aleta:
How many have needed to?
J R in WV
@Aleta:
How about “NEVER”!?!?!
Uncle Cosmo
The MD Perdues don’t give a frying flock about Sonny. Or they shouldn’t.
PST
I wonder what formalities are necessary to make a pardon operative. Trump has tweeted that he has granted Flynn a pardon. Is that all that is necessary? That certainly allows for ambiguity about the scope of the pardon. Is it a pardon only for the crime Flynn pleaded guilty to? Will he therefore contend that he can plead the Fifth with respect to other matters? Or will he argue that he is pardoned for everything? It all seems very loosey-goosey.
cain
@debbie:
please please, it’s perdue as in the chicken not the university :D
...now I try to be amused
@Mary G:
These people are complaining about the narrative arc of their favorite TV show.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@schrodingers_cat: I think he can go get fucked. Not a bit of use for him.
nasruddin
@Aleta: Caspar Weinberger by George HW Bush (who was VP during the period of interest)
Then we have Gerald Ford & Nixon.
Hmm …. seems like we have a pattern here ….
dp
@Sm*t Cl*de: Pretty sure acceptance of a pardon amounts to a legal admission of guilt, but fortunately I’ve never had to research this.