Mario’s kid is in even more trouble now that a second accuser has come forward. He’s in such deep shit that he issued his third apology yesterday — and this is a guy who never apologizes for anything. New York’s formidable Attorney General, Tish James, told him to pound sand when he submitted the name of a sympathetic judge to run an investigation, and Cuomo quickly backed down. I sincerely doubt he’ll resign, but for the first time I wonder if he’ll stand for re-election.
This raises the question of how Democrats should respond to the charges against Cuomo. Fuck him, is one legitimate way of looking at it, and I don’t want to downplay it because, well, fuck him. That said, the Whatabout Party (QOP) is going to use Cuomo to try to excuse their rapist-in-chief and their shit response to the pandemic, so maybe we should care.
Paul Campos’ piece in LGM this morning is pretty good at pointing out the hypocrisy of using minor charges of harassment that probably wasn’t harassment to bring down Democrats, but I’m a bit tougher than him on the harassment score. As a guy just a few years younger than Cuomo who’s had leadership positions in the recent past, there’s no fucking way you’d catch me saying anything like the things he said to those women, whether or not it met the technical definition of harassment. The reasons go beyond the obvious ones (you’ll make the women uncomfortable and you’ll get in trouble with HR) — it’s more of a having an understanding of your place in the world and, frankly, a little bit of pride. Twenty-something women, on the whole, have basically zero sexual or romantic interest in late 50s/early 60s men. If you delude yourself to think that flirting and other little comments are going to get you anywhere, you lack the insight and understanding that should be part of a leadership position. Plus, you look the fool.
Cuomo’s treatment of these women are of a piece of his being out of touch with where the world has moved. His stupid intransigence and delay of the legalization of marijuana (which this scandal may, yet again, delay) is just one example. Watching his reaction to the NYPD’s treatment of BLM protesters, it was surprising to me that he maintained a faux naivete about what police have become in this society. He seemed to really believe that most cops are good guys, and he believed that because they were (at least in the white parts of Queens) when he was growing up. The world has passed Cuomo by, and he just doesn’t get it.
That said, I really disagree with this part of Campos’ post:
I think Cuomo should resign because he botched New York’s response to the pandemic and unnecessarily killed a lot of people in the process […]
Cuomo’s response to the pandemic was far from perfect, but we do ourselves a giant disservice to put it in the same category as Ron DeSantis or Kristi Noem. Yeah, he hammed it up in his press conferences and his book, but he also put together a world-class testing program, pushed unpopular but effective restrictions that kept our hospitals from filling up, and did a decent job with vaccine preparation. None of the Republican “own the libs” shitposting all-stars did any of those things.
When we’re all vaccinated and the economy comes roaring back, the Republicans are going to do everything they can to downplay the Democrats’ leadership in fighting the pandemic. Letting that happen would be politically stupid. Better to have Cuomo resign because he was a creep than to have him quit because of some mistakes with the pandemic.
The party line should be that Cuomo was far better than any Republican governor on the pandemic, but Democrats don’t tolerate office holders who treat women poorly, so he has to go.
polyorchnid octopunch
“Democrats don’t tolerate party members who treat women poorly, so he has to go.” That’s pretty much the only thing that needs to be said… and it’ll be very effective for Democrats to say it and then do everything they can within your rules to make it so.
trollhattan
Gavin went to a fancy dinner and is facing recall. Somehow I’m seeing a different standard for Democrats.
Gin & Tonic
Paging Senator Gillibrand! Senator Gillibrand to the white courtesy phone, please? Huh, cat got her tongue?
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Gin & Tonic:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gillibrand-schumer-cuomo-james_n_603c179ac5b6d7794adfd531
She and Schumer have both called for an investigation by AG James.
Gin & Tonic
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: OK, missed that. Let’s see how quickly she takes out the knife, though – didn’t take her long to shiv Franken.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Gin & Tonic: I was in the camp of “I like Al Franken but there are plenty of good Democrats in Minnesota who can take his place.” He needed to go, and she was right to say he needed to leave.
Emma from FL
Morality always destroys Democrats; Republicans stick with theirs come hell or high water and they get seniority and re-elections. My mind understands the reasons, but my heart is exhausted of fighting the same battles every four years.
Martin
Yep.
Speaking of which hill to die on, reporting is that Bernies minimum wage workaround (which I admire for it’s cleverness) won’t happen. Dems want a standalone minimum wage bill to force Manchin/Sinema’s hand on filibuster reform/repeal.
I’ve seen a few reports suggesting that the return of the speaking filibuster might be acceptable to them.
raven
we suck
Lyrebird
QFT.
Thank you!!!
Martin
@Emma from FL: But Democrats are winning the bigger war. Dems have the larger voting coalition and it’s growing and strengthening because of this. It’s slow, and it’s being undermined by antidemocratic moves by the GOP, but I think Dems may see their moment. If they can get that filibuster reform, HR1 should pass, and that radically changes the landscape in our favor.
Lyrebird
And more from a grumpy me:
I sure wish we had legalized the work of persons like the ones Spitzer patronized. Retroactively.
I also wish people comparing this to the Franken case would remember that he left his post rather than staying through an investigation because his friends in the Senate told him to, including his critics.
WereBear
I am sorry to hear this, since he did a stellar job on the Pandemic.
I also thought he was smarter than that.
Tom Levenson
I agree totally with the politics: he did fine on the pandemic (or rather, at least well above average), but Democrats and not Republicans have standards when it comes to treating women equitably and honorably.
They can speak on this issue when they dump Trump and eject Cawthorn from their caucus.
Another Scott
Good post.
I’m still torn about how we as a party enforce legitimate important standards on our elected officials while at the same time the other side has no standards at all and takes every opportunity to punch down, to destroy the commonweal, to put reactionary people in lifetime positions, and do their best to make progress impossible.
Maybe until the oldster white guys move out it depends on the circumstances. Maybe triangulation isn’t always a bad thing.
Dunno.
Another recent example is the “blackface” scandal involving Gov. Northam in VA (who rode it out and has done a good job), and the sexual assault allegations against Lt. Gov. Fairfax in VA (his political career seems to have cratered, but he’s still in office, too).
Presumably Cuomo is likely (but not assuredly?) to be replaced by a Democrat after Lt. Gov. Kathy Hochul moves up temporarily. I know almost nothing about her and don’t know whether she would be an improvement over Cuomo.
It seems like an easy choice in this case – Cuomo should go.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Martin:
That’s something. I also endorse this
germy
I’m watching my local news TV.
Jen Psaki was asked about Cuomo!
I mean, I understand my local news covering Cuomo, because I’m in NY. But then they showed a clip of a Psaki news conference.
So it’s national news now? In that case, someone should ask Biden about Madison Cawthorn.
(sorry to be a broken record on the subject. I just think Republican misbehavior should get equal scrutiny from the press.)
jonas
I don’t know whether Cuomo’s behavior rises to the level of sexual harassment legally (yet), but he certainly appears to be guilty of textbook sleaziness at the very least. In what world is asking a female subordinate explicit questions about her sex life “mentoring” or “joking around?” I mean, he wasn’t emailing people images of bestiality porn, or anything, so context and all that, but I think we should all agree that he gets humbled, serves out his term, and doesn’t run for anything again.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@jonas: The funny thing is that there’s a well over non-zero chance that the 2022 Republican candidate for governor will be horse cock Carl Paladino again. There just isn’t much of a chance for any R to beat a Democrat. Even Cuomo would win pretty easily in 2022, probably.
Betty Cracker
It boggles the mind that not only is DeSantis not getting shit dumped on his head daily for his shitty handling of the pandemic, he brags about it being a “model for the nation.” IMO, there are two reasons Florida’s fatality rates weren’t among the worst (not that they’re anything to brag about anyway, even with cooked books), and neither has jack-shit to do with DeSantis:
1) Most people keep their doors and windows open and socialize/eat outdoors for most of the year any way because the weather is good; our big hospitalization/death spike was in summer when everyone was indoors with the AC on to escape the suffocating heat.
2) We have a large population of elderly people who took the danger seriously and therefore took personal precautions — even most of the wingnuts.
Anyhoo, I agree Democrats shouldn’t throw Cuomo under the bus for pandemic management, at least from what I know about his performance. If he’d swapped places with DeSantis, the death toll in NY would be staggering.
bowtiejack
“The world has passed Cuomo by, and he just doesn’t get it.”
Says it all.
Interestingly, also describes CPAC.
piratedan
@Betty Cracker: if by “model” you mean “cautionary example”, then sure! :-)
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@trollhattan:
“Because Republicans backing the Newsome recall would do a great job of managing the pandemic and would NEVER go to a fancy restaurant during the crisis….”
Roger Moore
My general take on accusations like the ones against Cuomo is that the behavior described is unacceptable. We shouldn’t turn into an angry mob and run him out of town based only on the accusations, but they need to be investigated. If any substantial part of them is confirmed by the investigation he needs to go.
Anyway
@Martin:
Should HR1 pass the senate and signed by POTUS will Georgia, IA, AZ and other red states that are pushing to prevent no-Excuse Absentee ballots, outlawing Sunday voting and other suppression measures be obliged to follow it? What are the consequences if they don’t? Rethugs and Dems have different standards when it comes to following the rules…
Soprano2
As I’ve been saying on other threads all day about this kind of thing in general, it needs a thorough investigation. I’m tired of Democrats throwing people under the bus without doing this first. We’re supposed to have the supposition of innocence until an investigation proves otherwise, and I don’t see any need to dispense with that in this case either.
Kent
As for the allegations of sexual harassment? I don’t really have much comment there. He’s not my governor and I certainly don’t defend him. He’s always struck me as a GOP-light authoritarian, and not any sort of true Democratic leader like my own Governor Jay Inslee here in WA.
On the other topic of Covid deaths. My understanding is that what actually happened is that they categorized a lot of deaths of nursing home patients who were subsequently hospitalized as “hospital” deaths not “nursing home” deaths. There was no hiding of the total number of Covid deaths from NYS, just that in the databases, nursing home patients who died in the hospital were classified as hospital deaths. That seems kind of like a tempest in a teapot. They were still deaths and properly accounted for. And the age, race, medical condition of the patent was properly recorded. I expect 99% of hospital deaths were from Covid infections that were acquired elsewhere. Am I wrong about that?
germy
I had the same thought.
For years he pushed the “gateway drug” myth. Refused to listen to the scientists.
germy
No, just the CPAC buffet table.
Brachiator
Shouldn’t there be some tribunal that Cuomo might face, with formal charges?
Why is the automatic penalty for these offenses resignation? Is that what people really want?
Do you apply these remedies even when the result will be Republicans gaining power? Republicans who would never resign under similar circumstances?
HumboldtBlue
Keeping up with the news can be burdensome at times.
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
I think there’s a big thing to distinguish this from the accusations against Gov. Northam: the length of time since the behavior the man is accused of. The accusations against Ralph Northam were about stuff he did in college. It’s reasonable to give him a pass on that because he has done better since then. The job he’s done in office is simply a lot more relevant than one dumb thing he did decades ago. The accusations against Andrew Cuomo are for stuff he’s done while governor, so they’re obviously of great relevance to his performance as governor.
Ken
It might be a better world if there were an HR department that could discipline elected politicians, but I can’t see a way to guarantee the necessary independence. Without that, it could easily degenerate into a tool used by one party to target the others.
Roger Moore
@jonas:
The legal standard for sexual harassment is based on a reasonable person standard, so you really can’t say for sure if something classifies without a trial. That said, the stuff he’s accused of seems like it’s plenty to qualify as creating a hostile workplace.
germy
‘It Sickened Me’: De Blasio Rips Cuomo Over Sexual-Harassment Claims
I wonder if the mayor wants to run for governor.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@germy: I don’t know what everyone else thinks, but the pandemic and the BLM protests both showed that DeBlasio is a useless windbag.
JML
I favor investigating his ass. I think he’s probably a dick who treats people poorly, and almost certainly crossed lines with female staff that anyone who has existed in the workplace in the last 20-30 should have known better about. I’m not thrilled with a zero-tolerance, resign upon accusation standard because a) we know the GOP will weaponize it against Dems while protecting their own, and b) not everything deserves the possible career-ender of a resignation. Things should be investigated and there should probably be a continuum of consequences.
But at the same time, I don’t want to create environments where people are able to bully people into staying silent, cover it up, etc.
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Cuomo. He’s not stupid, he’s not inexperienced. He’s arrogant and didn’t think there would be any consequences, probably because as Mario’s kid he might have gotten away with a lot over the years. The fact that he did ok in the pandemic (not perfect, but better than a lot and under very difficult circumstances) doesn’t excuse other bad behavior. He should be held to account for what he’s done in harassing women, and being effective in another arena shouldn’t come into it.
I don’t know where in the continuum between “apologize & move on” and “resign, possibly face criminal/civil charges” this falls?
James E Powell
@Roger Moore:
You want to take all the fun out of politics?
germy
oatler.
MSNBC is currently the Cuomo/ covid channel .
WereBear
@germy: You know he does, but good luck with that.
taumaturgo
Another conservative Democrat that bites the dust, the sooner the better. Good riddance and I hope as it has happened in the congressional races, that New Yorkers continue the trend of choosing Democrats, not GOP moles.
JML
@Another Scott: there’s also the reality that with Northam, with the bizarre VA system, you can’t run for re-election (one term only) so he had very little to personally lose by trying to ride it out and politically there’s limits on how much either party can gain by trying to force the issue.
raven
@oatler.: Last week we got lots of people whining that they covered Tiger too much.
Martin
@Tom Levenson: And not just the harassment thing, but if he actively covered up the nursing home data, that itself is enough reason to go, even if his overall handling was fine.
I think he did as well as anyone. Nobody did a spectacular job, but such is the nature of things. Hell, my planning shut down 4 universities, and I wish about a thousand things had gone better.
Ken
That’s a big issue in movies, or rather in the casting of movies, where men in their 50s and older are routinely cast opposite women in their 20s, with no in-movie comment on the age difference. The reverse almost never happens.
germy
Ken
@germy: Wait until the Hyatt organization finds out CPAC’s check is no good. Then you’ll see disappointment.
James E Powell
Cuomo is now and will forever be the left hand anchor of the press/media’s “both sides” treatment of the COVID crisis.
The only question I have is whether Cuomo leaving abruptly will have any impact on getting vaccines into people’s arms. Right now at the state level, that’s what matters most.
jeffreyw
@Martin:
I’ve seen reports from advocates of filibuster reform that those two might be amenable to a reform, but nothing from them directly. More of a bid to build momentum for a reform. I’m not seeing it take hold, yet.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
what does the statewide Dem bench look like, realistically? Could Hochul hold her own? Is Tish James ready to run, or does she want to wait till she can run as the woman who got a trump conviction?
Kent
Which is, of course, due to the fact that most directors are middle aged (or older) men. So they are pushing their own fantasies (and realities) onto the screen.
germy
@Kent:
See Allen, Woody.
WereBear
@Kent: I think that’s also behind the obsession about the ex-wife really still in love with the leading man; it just needs the right crisis to throw them together again!
BBA
If criticizing Saint Andrew of Albany is allowed here now, I guess I can start posting again.
He’s obviously guilty and needs to resign yesterday. But then of course I would say that, I never cared much for him, ever since the IDC bullshit which ought to be disqualifying on its own…
Cacti
While I don’t much care for Cuomo, how about we let an actual investigation happen and see what it turns up?
I’m a fan of due process of law.
Steve in the ATL
file suit and take it to SCOTUS who will declare it unconstitutional?
Yes.
laura
Let’s not pretend that HR exists to protect workers from discrimination and harrassment- they exists to reduce legal liability exposure to the organization and it’s administration. HR ain’t your friend, but is happy to get all of the details of your problem so that the organization can plan defensive strategies that may include finding the complainant at fault, increasing the complained of actions, signal your new status as a troublemaker, in other words DARVO.
Also, despite Cuomo’s scuzzy power moves, he deserves Due Process and the voters deserve all the details of his conduct in order to make an informed decision about his fitness to serve. I’m very glad Ms. James made clear that he is not going to investigate himself with a hand selected investigator – the complainants deserve no less
Also, what Cacti said.
smith
Even setting aside the clear ethical issues related to sexual harassment by elected officials, there’s a political calculus that leads to taking such allegations seriously: A majority of women vote Democratic. If we want that to continue, the interests of this most populous of our constituents have to be respected. As irritating as it is that Republican rapists routinely skate when Democrats guilty of much less serious offenses are forced to resign, the fact that we take abuse of women seriously is probably directly related to that voting pattern.
Of course, thoughtful investigations should precede those resignations, to show we recognize the gravity of both the alleged offense and the rights of the accused, and also because without that we will be vulnerable to endless Republican ratfucking.
Steve in the ATL
@raven: Tiger is dead to me for (1) his treatment of his wife, and (2) ruining golf tournaments by bringing crowds of yahoos who scream “YOU DA MAN!” after every tee shot.
[shutters]
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Brachiator
@Kent:
I suppose that a number of movie goers don’t like this, or at least say they don’t.
A related, if not larger problem, is that older women still do not get leading roles. They disappear after age … I don’t know, 30 something. And only come back in supporting roles as mothers.
WaterGirl
@germy: That would be the definition of failing upward.
Sure Lurkalot
@Steve in the ATL: I’m seeing more and more mention of HR1 being ruled unconstitutional, but mostly tweets. Is it that there’s no affirmative right to vote in the constitution so no federal rules may apply? That the SCOTUS will declare it thus because of the reactionary 5?
Geminid
@Roger Moore: Also, it is not clear that Northam actually was the person in blackface in the yearbook photo. When it was first brought up (by a prolife group that reacted to Northam’s stance on third-term abortion) Northam initially apologized. The next day he took it back, saying he could not actually recognize himself in the photo, and definitely had not submitted it. Northam was some weeks into his military service when his medical school yearbook was published, and he says he did not see it for thirty some years. Northam is a straight arrow, and I don’t have difficulty taking him at his word. The yearbook editor never commented on the matter.
Scandal triggers scandal, and within days the Lieutenant Governor was slammed with serious sexual assault allegations, and the Attorney General was found to have a brownface picture in his past. This made it easier for Northam to ride it out, and then go on to do a good job managing Virginia’s pandemix response.
Northam’s biggest accomplishment was in his first year as Governor, when he persuaded three Republican State Senators and ten Delegates to join the Democratic minority in passing Medecaid expansion. That saved a lot of Virginian lives.
Chief Oshkosh
Anthony Bourdain had some comments about how creepy Cuomo was, and surprisingly, how creepy Cuomo’s (then) wife was to Bourdain and his (then) wife at a dinner party. I think it was in Medium Raw. All based on power dynamics. It may well be that Cuomo treats everyone like shit, but especially women. Of course, Bourdain had his problems, too. Man, it’s still a downer to think about Bourdain’s suicide. Another victim of Trump? I’m sure it didn’t help.
Steve in the ATL
@Sure Lurkalot:
Exactly. There is no legitimate legal basis for doing so, but they will. Just like they have with scores of other overtly political opinions. Obamacare and abortion access, for example.
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: Hey and hello! Seems like I haven’t seen you in a few weeks.
eddie blake
@BBA:
yeah. he’s ALWAYS been a dick, and he propped up the IDC. that was just obnoxious. give him his process, and then let him get the fuck out of dodge.
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: hello! Been busy. Couple of arbitrations and some bargaining, plus some personal stuff. I’m glad that BJ was able to remain open in my absence thought!
JMG
Cuomo is and has always been a bullying asshole. To everyone, man and woman. What he may think of as lighthearted flirting, which’d be sad enough, had to come off as threatening to the women he put it on, because the threat is his basic mode of interpersonal communication. He’s got genuine executive ability, but surely in a state as big as New York Democrats could find someone with executive ability who’s not an obnoxious petty tyrant, too.
eddie blake
@JMG:
one would think.
hitchhiker
I sometimes think about an alternate universe in which almost all the people who hold real power are gay men over 60. Would a straight guy in his 20s find it acceptable to be asked any sexual question/told any dirty joke by such a boss? Would that straight guy in his 20s enjoy knowing that when his bosses got together they were discussing his appeal as a possible hookup?
Because that’s the world young women have always lived in, and it seems like even now a whole lot of men who ought to be able to understand what’s wrong with it just can’t get it.
It turns my stomach to hear Cuomo talking about “teasing.” For fuck’s sake, just ask your daughters how much they’d have liked it.
Edmund Dantes
@BBA: God. Still can’t believe he was allowed to skate for so long on the IDC bullshit.
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: Barely!
Roger Moore
@Sure Lurkalot:
I think the assumption is that the decision in Shelby County was complete BS made up as an excuse to gut the VRA, so we can expect more of the same for any attempt to resuscitate it.
A Ghost to Most
Andrew is a Cuomo, and the Cuomo asshole streak runs deep in him. It was bound to catch up with him eventually. He should save everybody the pain, and resign. The asshole in him will likely refuse, though.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
For those calling for due process, I’m sure it’s going to happen, and unless there’s something more awful revealed, he’s not going anywhere. That said, I think that what’s been said already by his accusers is damning, no matter whether it rises to the legal standard of harassment. This is an easy call, politically. Al Franken committed no crimes, yet he needed to go, too. We need to maintain a high standard.
For those asking about a Cuomo replacement, pretty much any D will beat an R in New York. The R statewide bench is not deep. Tish James would be great. I’m sure there are others who would run. Lt Gov Kathy Hochul is the token Western New York member of the ticket and will not be a viable candidate because downstate does not want an upstate Governor. (Robert Duffy, former Mayor of Rochester, was the previous Lt Gov, and another token who couldn’t win, btw, so it’s no reflection on Hochul.)
Roger Moore
@Geminid:
My basic point is that it shouldn’t matter if Northam was the one in the picture. I wouldn’t quite say that there should be a statute of limitations for old allegations, but we need to be sensible about them. The point of knowing about this stuff is as a way of judging a person’s character. It’s might be interesting that Northam once dressed up in blackface, but that’s interesting only if it shows that he might harbor bigotry today. If he didn’t have a record, knowing that he was once a bigot might be an important point, but he does have a record. It shows that he is not a bigot today, and today is what matters when judging his suitability for office.
Anyway
@Steve in the ATL:
SCOTUS blocked another ban on church services (in Santa Clara County, California). They keep limiting state and local COVID-19 restrictions on religious worship without anyone raising a fuss. I am afraid Dems faith in HR1 will be shattered by Roberts and his reactionary court. IANAL.
Geminid
@Roger Moore: I understand that I did not speak to your central point. It was an interesting affair, though, and I wanted to lay out some aspects that people who followed it in national news sources may have missed. And I wanted to highlight Northam’s successful effort to push Medicaid expansion through the Virginia legislature. By the time the pandemic hit, 400,000 Virginians had been added to the Medicaid rolls.
Eric NNY
Your last sentence sums it up perfectly.
J R in WV
@hitchhiker:
OH, no, dude, that’s a terrible thought. You know Cuomo would love that conversation WAY too much!!! Almost as much as Trump would like that conversation with his daughters…
BBA
Investigation? Due process? Sure, I guess. I just don’t think that’d tell us anything that we don’t already know.
“He said, she said.” I believe her.
Brachiator
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
No. We need to apply a reasonable and consistent standard.
Zero tolerance is not a high standard. It’s like the right wing passion for mandatory minimum sentencing, stuff that results in somebody getting 10 years for shop lifting a pencil.
Amir Khalid
@germy:
As I’ve said before, Hyatt had the right to shut CPAC down for its attendees’ persistent violation of Covid-19 safety rules, and should have exercised it.
SiubhanDuinne
@A Ghost to Most:
One of the CNN anchors (Dana Bash, maybe?) was caught on camera referring to him as Chris Cuomo. I laughed…
PPCLI
Better to avoid NY on the topic of Covid. It would be good for the Democrats to focus on Washington and Michigan. Those were two places that were hit really hard early on, yet now are among the best. Other places could have learned from their example, and refused to.
Michigan was close to the top in deaths per capita by the end of the first month after their first case. Yet now, every month they are being passed by more and more other states. Mississippi, South and North Dakota, Alabama, Arizona, Indiana, Iowa,… one by one the states with Republican governors passed them in per capita deaths, even though the other states had fair warning of what was coming, as Michigan had not. Yet Whitmer had to deal with kidnap plots and the insurrectionist-in-chief tweeting out “LIBERATE MICHIGAN”.
burnspbesq
@JMG:
Name one.
Nicole
A close friend of mine is a social worker in an elder care facility in Long Island, and she felt Cuomo did the best he could at the start of the pandemic. She said there are a lot of moving parts that go into how the state tracks the movement of elderly people in and out of elder care facilities and hospitals, what decides where their place of death is when they pass- even the time of day they passed brings its own set of complications and inevitable paperwork. She said it’s a lot, even in a non-pandemic time, and she completely gets why Cuomo’s administration made the decisions they did.
If the number of women stays at 2, I think Cuomo may ride this out. If more surface, I think he’s done. I’m perfectly content if he resigns; I think it sucks that the narrative will turn into “harassment and his handling of Covid” when it should just be about the harassment. Of course, what made these women feel safe enough to come forward is that he took an injury over his handling of the crisis; his fumbling explanations about why they hid data made him look weak, and there was the opportunity to come forward and maybe actually be heard, since normally not much good comes from a woman accusing a man of sexual harassment when that man is good at his day job.
I still think he did a good job keeping us feeling like someone in charge was trying to fix what was going on, but politicians are not our friends and we don’t owe them shit once they aren’t benefitting their constituents. Hotchul will be fine. She’s a more conservative than I’d like, but she ticks off most of the boxes I want in a NY Democrat. So fine.
And I continue to send mental apologies to Tish James, whom I did not vote for in the primary because… I thought she was too close to Cuomo and wouldn’t be independent enough. Mea culpa, a thousand times over. She’s doing good work.
sab
@Nicole: That is how I feel about DeWine in Ohio. Governors had an impossible position what with the no federal response. The good ones did what they could. The bad ones ( Noem, deSantis) competed to be the most horrible.
Anyway
I don’t get this slagging of Cuomo for his handling of the pandemic. I have friends in the NYC-NJ medical community and remember how overwhelmed and they were at the end of March and April of last year. There was no guidance from the Feds, Jared was actively trying to kneecap the blue states it was a mess- Cuomo was acting in a near vacuum of knowledge and leadership. He provided a model for the nation – yes, one of two missteps but that happens in a pandemic. And I don’t want to agree with Spencer Ackerman …
Ken
Baud! Rested, tanned, and ready!
Nicole
@sab:
Yeah, for sure. And a completely new virus, no idea how bad, how contagious, and no clear idea about effective treatment.
I keep thinking about how I would count down the minutes to the daily briefings he gave. I’m still grateful for them; they kept my panic level down during March and April. I disliked him before, and I dislike him now, but for that period, I got something I needed from him as an elected official. But I owe him no loyalty for it. We don’t owe that to any elected official.
different-church-lady
At this point LGM only does nuance as cover for their clickbait. I’m slowly making progress on my detox program — I pop over, scan a few things, think, “Yup, they continue to be what they are, which is a bunch of people who mistake opinions for insight,” and move on with my day.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Nicole:
I’m glad you posted that, because whenever I heard about that “scandal” I could never quite figure out what was so scandalous. I think that’s the reason that discussions of it quickly turned into discussions of what an asshole Cuomo is. Same thing is happening with the harassment stories, it seems.
Was he planning on a fourth term?
Nicole
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, I get confused, too. It seems to me the big actual issue was saying nursing homes couldn’t refuse to take back in residents who tested positive for Covid. But that was done to keep the ICUs from overflowing with elderly people with Covid. Which is not to say that’s not important, but people still get heart attacks, or have pneumonia, or a stroke or a bad infection that requires the ER and sometimes the ICU, even when there’s not a pandemic. The state was trying to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed. I can see the fury from families who feel that loved ones at nursing homes may have caught and died from Covid due to a positive person being readmitted to the home, but is that different from a family of a heart attack victim who potentially died due to a lack of adequate care because there was no room for him at the hospital?
As for the data over where they died- see my friend’s thoughts, above. It’s confusing, even in non-pandemic times. I don’t see how the data having been this or that would have changed what happened in March or April, and ultimately I’m not interested unless it’s proved to me it would have meant fewer people would have died overall.
Yeah, I don’t quite get the hullabaloo other than it was time to go back to hating Cuomo.
The two women’s stories, that I get as scandal-worthy. I don’t know if he was planning on a fourth term (but I definitely hope he wasn’t planning on national office, ’cause I don’t think it’s happening now). ;)
JoyceH
I’m really torn on this Cuomo story. My first duty station right out of OCS was a CESSPOOL of sexual harassment, back before the term was even invented. So I know what that’s like. (All the watch officers were very junior female officers, and the power structure above them was all male, and the harassment was blatant, grabbing and unmistakable propositioning.) On the other hand, later on I was stationed at a place so small I was the XO, and the CO was this crusty old naval aviator that I adored, in a purely platonic way. He was always saying totally crass things, but I knew he didn’t really mean it, so it didn’t bother me. But in this day and age, he’d be investigated and probably fired for it.
And yet – it does sound like Cuomo was definitely making a pass, more innuendo than outright invitation, and not that long ago, and power imbalance and so on… And if he’s a bully otherwise, that’s just not leadership. I wish plain old bullying was something that was a firing offense, come to think of it.
rikyrah
Let the investigation play out.
Period
rikyrah
Believe all women?
I think the Phuck Not.
Ruckus
mistermix
If it was me, I’d like to know who his replacement would be.
As you said he’s maybe not the best, but he’s been better than a number of other governors, in a situation with no leadership from the federal side, with no one with any real ability to politically handle this situation, in a state with one of the more crowed cities in the world. I’d also wonder if there is a political angle to the timing here. Quite possibly not but it still seems possible.
SmallAxe
Spot on MisterMix, you’re absolutely right on Cuomo, co-signed by a male in leadership
Mr. Kite
@Gin & Tonic: Holy shit, Frankengrievance is still a thing?
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
This.
As much as we’d like the world to be better, as long as there are humans in it, it likely will maybe improve only in single digit percentages, over long periods of time. Humans are horrible, except that they often are not in any way. The learning curve is not straight, it is not always positive and it has all types of pitfalls along the way. For example, it seems a rather larger fraction of the population would like to revert to the world they think existed at some point in the past, even though it didn’t exist at that point like they think it did. Hell the number of people who can’t remember what their childhood was actually like is enormous.
Tazj
Not a fan of Cuomo, I’m far more liberal than he is and pretty angry with him for his awful behavior towards women and the press. I’m happy he will be investigated and I’m confident James will truly be independent and will let the chips fall where they may.
However, I have become pretty defensive about his handling of the pandemic. Both the left and the right saying he killed people in nursing homes? Really He murdered people now? Was there a cover up of the number of people dying or where they died? Was the decision whether to send people back to nursing homes that easy when there was a lack of hospital beds, PPE and testing?
My biggest problem is Republicans resisting every reasonable measure to get the pandemic under control right from the beginning. He’s an emperor because he wants people to wear a mask, and to close schools and businesses. I live in the Buffalo area and all I’ve heard from the start was criticism of any protective measures and envy of places like Florida and Texas. Members of my family, my husband, sister, niece and a nephew work We had more time to prepare than the New York City area and Catholic health and time to establish a separate COVID hospital and nursing home facility. Guess what? There was still a lot of death from COVID here among the elderly. Healthcare workers don’t live where they work and if there’s COVID in the community and little PPE or testing, what’s going to happen?
My husband, a physician got a few masks in a paper bag a week to use and not N95’s either, surgical masks. Oh that patient you had to transfer because your Cath lab is closed is positive for COVID. Coworkers of my sister got COVID and she needed antidepressants to continue working.
It’s fine to criticize Cuomo and to be angry with him for many things. I’m glad all of it is going to be investigated but I can’t abide by Republicans and some leftists calling him a murderer now. If he did things that were illegal I believe he’ll be prosecuted and he will deserve to be, but I can’t abide by the Republican criticism at the moment when they did nothing but make bad faith arguments and did nothing to help from the start.
brantl
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Franken deserved an investigation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I can’t remember if I said earlier in this thread, if it comes out he ever got physical…
I’d say the odds of resignation just went up, or at the very least “I shall not seek re-election…
ETA: and there’s a picture.
brantl
@James E Powell:
8.
James E Powell
MARCH 1, 2021 AT 4:46 PM
@Roger Moore:
You want to take all the fun out of politics?
Does that mean that we can’t act like adults?
artem1s
@smith:
I have faith that the average democratic woman voter can tell the difference between making sure everyone enjoys due process and letting some one slide because they are a rich/famous person. They also can tell when MeToo is being weaponized or Joe Biden wouldn’t be President today. Most women want there to be real solutions to harassment in the workplace, not just gotcha bandaids. If there are issues with the civil and criminal justice system treating female victims of sexual assault and harassment poorly then fix those systems. That will do more for women democratic voters than running a single serial harasser out of office.
the Kavanaugh hearings are a perfect example of making the mistake of trying to impugned someone over their sexual past when there were plenty of other offenses that should have been investigated and probably easier to prove culpability. It was never going to kill his nomination and meant he was never seriously questioned about other troubling issues (the payola scam the got him out of debt and Kennedy’s kid out of trouble). The press and public got to slaver over the sex scandal and slut shame, dox and ruin the life of some woman. Not a good trade off in my mind. Next time the Dems need to keep someone off the court or out of office, I’d prefer they forget trying to shock the GOP with a sex scandal. They just don’t care frankly and only gives them more “what about” ammunition. It’s that kind of weak tea effort that turns off women voters.
jonas
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Elise Stefanik is the rising batshit Trump-humper in NY right now, so my money’s on her.
jonas
*Any* Republican criticizing Cuomo right now after 5-6 years of shrugging their shoulders at the literally dozens of women who came forward accusing Trump of far, far worse can have a big, steaming cup of STFU.
Tazj
There’s an article in the New York Times about high staff turnover likely contributing to the high number of deaths at nursing homes. This was based on a national study about nursing homes across the country not just New York.Having started my career in nursing at a nursing home this doesn’t surprise me at all. I once worked 14 days straight, and did 3 back to back doubles each weekend. I worked 24 hours straight once at an adult care facility because the other nurses just didn’t show up. My niece gets called in all the time for the same staff shortages now. Staffing has always been an issue.
I’m sure Cuomo did some things wrong but I feel some of the criticism is part of a coordinated attack on Democratic governors from Republicans.
It looks as though Cuomo will be pressured to resign for his behavior towards women by more Democrats now, which is on him. I just hope that if Kathy Hochul has to become governor that things go well for her.
Lyrebird
@Tazj: Thank you. For all your comments and for keeping things together. This time has been so nuts, must be ten times more so in health care. I hope your husband is okay and that you are too.
Tazj
@Lyrebird: Sorry, you don’t have to thank me at all. I never did anything that other nurses and nurses aides have done for much longer than I did.I left nursing a while ago to work other jobs. I was too burned out from working nights and taking care of my dad and trying to have kids.I was very privileged to have that choice, and feel more than a little guilt that I did.
Tazj
@Lyrebird: Thanks for asking, my husband and my other family members are well. He and my niece and nephew have been vaccinated, my sister is still waiting on hers. Catholic Health is supposed to take care of it but when? She is still trying to get an appointment with Erie County.
Mai Naem mobile
This just smells set up of a person who has all the knives out for him for crap he’s pulled over the years. People seem to have forgotten last winter/ spring when Cuomo was the much needed leader that was needed. Maybe there’s stuff coming out about the LTC facilities that the Dems want to get rid of Cuomo over. Definite shades of Schneiderman and Spitzer. IIRC Spitzer’s was at the beginning of the Obama administration.
Ascap_scab
Then NY Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo, took down then Governor Eliot Spitzer on a prostitution charge. So yes, Cuomo knows how not to act, but felt entitled to do it anyway. Screw blue Trump. Bring on Kathy Hochul.
Another Scott
There’s always a tweet.
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
planetjanet
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Why is it that every failure must be countered with immediately losing one’s job? Simple accusations are met with calls for metaphorical summary execution. Our leaders are not heroes. Some are just barely leaders. Cuomo has immediately lost all credibility on matters of sexual equality. Others will have lead on those matter. It is not his singular job responsibility. Let the facts come out in a full investigation. Let everyone know what happened. See if he can learn from his mistakes and make amends for it. If he is defensive, dismissive or defiant, then let the cries for his resignation ring loud until he can hear nothing else. Let’s take a breath.