"A detailed, six-page set of written terms would require all parties to the conflict to freeze combat operations for at least five days while an initial 50 or more hostages are released in smaller batches every 24 hours." https://t.co/eAGFeqAXr9
— Shibley Telhami (@ShibleyTelhami) November 19, 2023
Unpaywalled gift link. Per the Washington Post:
Israel and Hamas are close to agreement on a U.S.-brokered deal that would free dozens of women and children held hostage in Gaza in exchange for a five-day pause in fighting, say people familiar with the emerging terms.
The release, which could begin within the next several days — barring last-minute hitches — could lead to the first sustained pause in conflict in Gaza.
A detailed, six-page set of written terms would require all parties to the conflict to freeze combat operations for at least five days while an initial 50 or more hostages are released in smaller batches every 24 hours. It was not immediately clear how many of the 239 people believed to be in captivity in Gaza would be released under the deal. Overhead surveillance would monitor movement on the ground to police the pause.
The stop in fighting is also intended to allow a significant increase in the amount of humanitarian assistance, including fuel, to enter the besieged enclave from Egypt…
The outline of a deal was put together during weeks of talks in Doha, Qatar, among Israel, the United States and Hamas, indirectly represented by Qatari mediators, according to Arab and other diplomats. But it remained unclear until now that Israel would agree to temporarily pause its offensive in Gaza, provided the conditions were right…
Good. Also very good that Biden says the goal is a two-state solution. https://t.co/IhrTE0c0ix
— James Surowiecki (@JamesSurowiecki) November 18, 2023
I try to stay out of these discussions, because I know I can’t be fair. But this is our President, so…
NEW: Biden calls for peace, a two-state solution, a free Palestine, & will impose sanctions against Israeli extremists in the West Bank. He also calls for support for Ukraine. Here is a gift link to the President’s opinion piece in WaPo. https://t.co/j3ydsnGJWh
— Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) November 18, 2023
Today, the world faces an inflection point, where the choices we make — including in the crises in Europe and the Middle East — will determine the direction of our future for generations to come.
What will our world look like on the other side of these conflicts?
Will we deny Hamas the ability to carry out pure, unadulterated evil? Will Israelis and Palestinians one day live side by side in peace, with two states for two peoples?
Will we hold Vladimir Putin accountable for his aggression, so the people of Ukraine can live free and Europe remains an anchor for global peace and security?
And the overarching question: Will we relentlessly pursue our positive vision for the future, or will we allow those who do not share our values to drag the world to a more dangerous and divided place?..
President Biden, may he live a hundred healthy years, is the epitome of that saying: Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day that says, ‘I will try again tomorrow.’
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
rikyrah
President Biden… always doing the work 👏🏾👏🏾
rikyrah
David Darmofal (@david_darmofal) posted at 6:13 AM on Sun, Nov 19, 2023:
As someone who was at the Blue Jamboree event yesterday, this Politico article accurately captures the Phillips and Clyburn parts of the event and matches what I was saying yesterday on here, as you’ll see. https://t.co/mdD4klsWUP
(https://x.com/david_darmofal/status/1726211997547545083?t=grQOmo_8CX0nZ7WaIIZPpg&s=03)
rikyrah
Uh huh 😒😒😒
David Darmofal (@david_darmofal) posted at 9:39 PM on Sat, Nov 18, 2023:
Maureen Dowd’s out with an entire column about how she’s upset because President Biden told the truth about David Axelrod. Her & Jonathan Martin’s over-the-top defenses of Axelrod are the kind of things you’d write if Axelrod was one of your principal anonymous sources.
(https://x.com/david_darmofal/status/1726082737004486757?t=_Q_HyhIJ7zoAvpuGSAu13A&s=03)
satby
Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day that says, ‘I will try again tomorrow.’
Ok, that hit me right in the feels. Because it’s so true of Joe Biden.
zhena gogolia
So the WaPo story hasn’t been discredited, as it was suggested last night?
OzarkHillbilly
Forgive me if I am not very hopeful. Still, I very much appreciate any and all efforts to end this (70?) yr old stupidity.
eta: talk talk is always better than fight fight.
Jeffro
I can’t imagine being in a position in my life where I would feel a need to give an over-the-top defense of David Axelrod(!)
Ah well. Here’s to having made better choices in life than MoDo and Mr. Martin!
In other news, it looks like trumpov’s sister had the last laugh, right down to the choices of hymns at her funeral:
“The prince of darkness grim, we tremble not for him;
His rage we can endure, For lo! his doom is sure;
One little word shall fell him.”
LOLOLOL
Kay
@rikyrah:
Aso- Axelrod spent 8 years as a reporter for the Chicago Tribune before sort of reinventing himself as a political strategist. He’s in the club.
Kay
I’m thrilled at this news and hope the deal holds up.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
My impression is that it was reported as a done deal but it’s not quite done yet.
Baud
What’s the deal with Axelrod?
MomSense
@satby:
Me too.
Baud
@satby:
Agree. Very eloquent, AL.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
You’re forgiven. The odds are still long.
The thing about being in leadership is that leaders don’t get to make the choice to not be hopeful.
Citizen Alan
@rikyrah: Can someone summarize this for the benefit of those who do not care to watch a whole video at five o’clock in the morning with a new context for what it’s about?.
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: I think the hostage plan is not finalized yet and could still fall apart, so the Washington Post might have jumped the gun.
This is a very complicated negotiation. The US is involved directly, and indirectly by using our influence with Arab states including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Oman, and with Israel as well.
As it did in the Israel/Gaza war of May, 2021 Qatar is playing a key role as facilitator. Qatar has no formal relations with Israel, but that has not prevented the head of the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad from visiting Qatar at least twice in recent weeks. That is where Hamas’s political leadership lives, and the Mossad chief may be using Qatari interlocutors to work this deal out.
Jeffro
Btw for those who are interested, the WaPo has up two great food safety pieces
(both links are ‘gifted’)
Great for passing along to relatives who thaw the turkey on the counter, friends who leave leftovers in the fridge for more than 3 days, etc. ;)
geg6
@Baud:
Yeah, I seem to have missed this particular kerfluffle.
Baud
@Geminid:
I hope someone didn’t leak this in order to scuttle the deal.
OzarkHillbilly
I have to disagree to this extent. I was never hopeful in my fight for my sons, but not fighting was never an option. It was finally resolved when my ex went to prison. Biden has to try, because not trying is not an option. Maybe an opening will appear with a Netanyahu heart attack.
eta: I forget, maybe when he goes to prison.
artem1s
Is anyone else worried about the Dems choice of Chicago as the site of the national convention? Seems to me that the autocrats and fascists would really love to ignite a repeat of 1968 so they can ‘both sides’ J6 indictments. And the dumbass rose shxitters and ‘do something’ crowd is more than willing to help.
Trigger warning. Offensive imagery at the link.
s=20″>https://x.com/Deoliver47/status/1725973647565717560?s=20
Special Puppy 🧦🐵
@SpecialPuppy1
Nov 17
Replying to @PretentiousDick and @JoshBunchOfNums
The organization that created the poster “BKFamiliesforPalestine” used the watermelon on posters about Clarke and Schumer too
prostratedragon
@Kay: Was then also a regular on the local PBS weekly roundup. Ooo chile is he ever.
Btw I was lately thinking about what a wonderful appointment to the embassy in Japan Biden made. As a Taiwanese friend said in hustling her son into a traditional martial arts class, “Lots of bowing.”
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Israelis seem to really hate Netanyahu now, but I don’t know if they have the courage to get rid of him. That would certainly be a positive step, although just the first step.
Geminid
@rikyrah: David Axelrod made his reputation as a campaign manager, and I think he earned it. But now Axelrod out of that business, and is instead part of what could be called the political/journalistic industrial establishment. That is somewhat of a club, and people like Dowd resent Joe Biden’s criticism of fellow club member.
Damien
I don’t envy the multiple tightropes that Biden finds himself walking, but reading the op-ed it very much feels like he doesn’t do it glibly. I can’t remember the last time that a US President was as clear and explicit about how he plans to move forward the idea of a true and lasting peace, which simply has to be the ultimate goal of anyone sincerely talking about the conflict. Myself, I had all but resigned myself to the idea that Israel was simply going to go all in on villainy, seize all of Gaza, and displace the Palestinians into the Sea. It may as yet still happen, since Netenyahu is a fascist monster driven by right-wing radicals (something that never bodes well for…well, anyone).
But Biden’s op-ed at least gave me a glimmer of hope that things may be different. I can only hope.
Suzanne
@Jeffro:
Having sung this many times, I cannot help but hear “feh-el-el HIM”! It makes it funnier.
Kay
@prostratedragon:
That’s funny.
Media loved Rahm. One of them, I don’t remember which one, wrote this big serious column last week about how Biden has to bring him back to the US and give him a job in the administration.
I just don’t think Axelrod was ever the numbers person. He was the narrative person. I’m not clear on why he’s presenting himself as a polling expert.
Baud
@Damien:
I hate that saying that the Chinese have the same word for crisis and opportunity, but it may have some relevance here. Worth a shot, anyway.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Mr. DAW is watching the F1 race he has recorded. It was run in Las Vegas at midnight last night. I can make no sense of that timing.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: That fact gives me a tiny bit of hope. Just a tiny bit.
Soprano2
I hope this deal happens. I also hope the people who have been so critical of Biden for not forcing Israel to stop bombing give him credit for it instead of moving the goalposts.
I heard Dean Phillips on the last Maher show I listened to. His run for president is so dumb. It could be summed up as “I love Joe Biden and everything he’s done, but he’s too old for a second term. Also, I’m afraid for Harris to become president”. Because yes, they did discuss her and how she’s “not popular”. I guarantee that if Biden’s VP were a white man none of this crap would be happening.
Suzanne
@Damien: Agreed. During those first few days after 10/7, when Karine Jean-Pierre said that calling for a ceasefire was “repugnant”, I was pretty convinced that Israel was going to commit genocide, and possibly with our full-throated support. It seems that Biden has been very wise behind the scenes and is doing the best he can to make a more fair and long-term solution at least possible. Hope is all I’ve got.
artem1s
@Suzanne:
It’s a wonderful tune but OMG stretching the English translation into all those German syllables – yikes!
Were you surprised at the mention in the article that a lot of Catholics have embraced the Lutheran hymn celebrating the Reformation? I wonder how many know they are singing an excommunicated heretic’s words?
Damien
@Baud: Yeah, I hate that saying too, almost as much as the saying “why doesn’t Biden DOOOO SOMETHING?!?!”
This notion that silence means inactivity is one of the most pernicious I come across, because it seems like the assumption is that all diplomacy, all problem-solving, must be done performatively. I cannot even imagine the hew and cry that would emanate in the face of every setback, which are literally inevitable in any negotiation let alone negotiations involving world-shaking problems; have these people never tried to haggle for a new car? Just trying to imagine doing that with millions of lives in the balance gives me heart palpitations.
I think the other pernicious idea on the Left somewhat these days is that there is some kind of short-term solution to every problem and that Biden and the Democrats just aren’t trying hard enough. Solutions to things like climate change, economic inequality, Israel/Palestine, and so many others aren’t one year, two year, or even four year propositions, but I think we’re seeing what it means to be walking down a good path rather than roller-skating into a blender.
Geminid
@Baud: There is debate among Israeli opposition bloc members about how best to get rid of Netanyahu. Editorial writers for the very anti-Netanyahu newspaper Haaretz have argued that he must be removed ASAP by a constructive no-confidence vote in the Knesset, but one last night argued tbat making Netanyahu face voters at the polls is the best path.
A couple days ago Yair Lapid, head of largest opposition party and Prime Minister in the preceding government, made public the proposal he’s made to Likud Party members: if you replace Netanyahu with another of your members, and kick radicals Smotrich, Ben-Gvir and the 12 other racist MKs in their parties out of the government, the the 26-MK Yesh Atid party will join a new government for the duration of this war.
OzarkHillbilly
Texas: Republican-controlled school board votes against climate textbooks
Because they were mean and unfair to the oil and gas industry. Keeping children ignorant is what “parent’s rights” is all about.
Immanentize
@Suzanne: So weird to think it, but at this moment it really looks like Biden has slowly coalesced a powerful coalition (so that’s where that noun comes from?!) of the whole of the Sunni Arab States to act together toward a final goal of free Palestine. Saud being the big new enforcer on the block. The world seems to have just followed the flow of that gathering consensus about a two state solution because of Israel’s actions in Gaza.* The whole thing is playing out so differently than at any prior time in my life. I hope I live long enough to see a positive resolution of this moment of the possible.
*I realized the two state solution was back on the table and more possible than at any time since the last millennium when all sorts of articles declaring that solution dead or unworkable or just not prudent began popping up in the last ten days.
zhena gogolia
@Jeffro:
That’s one of my favorite hymns, and these are my favorite words in the hymn, but this time I read it as “For lol! his doom is sure.”
zhena gogolia
@Kay: Do you have anything more to say about Biden’s inaction that you were criticizing him for?
kalakal
Biden is very good at practical politics, that means that a lot of what he achieves is by background pressure and discussion rather than highly public showboating. TFG is all performative jackassery and zero accomplishment, Biden is ( to his eternal credit) the exact opposite
Baud
@Damien:
I agree.
@Immanentize:
People who describe the two state solution as dead never seem to propose a better alternative.
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: At any rate, the story tells us that Biden is not just sitting on his hands and letting Bibi take the wheel. But by all means, let’s scream at him some more and give the NYT some great headlines.
Immanentize
@artem1s: The Catholic church, at least in the US, seems more Protestant these days with divergences and schisms and, of course, sex scandals. :-)
So old Martin, the Scold, seems to fit perfectly.
zhena gogolia
@Suzanne: When she said “repugnant” she was referring to something else. That’s been explained.
Immanentize
@Baud: Exactly. The people who oppose that solution like things just fine the way they are. See, e.g. Dermer
Kay
@Soprano2:
They still haven’t come up with a reason why Biden’s age is a problem. They should be able to point to something- he’s ill so can’t handle the rigors of the job or he’s showing signs of dementia or he’s promoting policy that is out of touch, not responsive to current problems.
None of that has turned out to be true so their objections now are just “optics” – how it looks. It’s really shallow – like he’s a celebrity.
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: I sure hope the Israeli government can swing some kind of arrangement to get rid of Netanyahu, though I’ve seen his disastrous political career survive too many near-death experiences to be confident they can. His speedy departure is needed for everyone’s sake (except Netanyahu’s).
Baud
@Immanentize:
I think a lot of the consternation about Biden from many sides is because people are more invested in the status quo than they let on.
Unresolved problems have their own constituencies.
zhena gogolia
I didn’t think so.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
I didn’t criticize him for “inaction” – I allowed the assumption that he was working behind the scenes. I criticized him for what I saw as lopsided PUBLIC statements – too much chest beating on war and not enough focus on humanitarian aid and resolution, given that 80% of the public wants the US to focus on humanitarian aid (for both sides) rather than becoming embroiled in the war. I wasn’t the only one who noticed this- the Center for American Progress and people in the State Department also criticized this publicly.
I’m pleased the administration’s public statements are now more in line with the US public.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
There would be much rejoicing.
Suzanne
@zhena gogolia: She referred to statements made by members of Congress calling for a ceasefire “repugnant”.
I think they’ve backed down from this position since realizing that there’s a lot of the Dem coalition that doesn’t support vast military aid to Israel and who do, in fact, support ceasefire. But at the time, she was not really ambiguous.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
I’m not going to apologize for criticizing Joe Biden. It’s permitted in the Democratic Party. If I wanted to join a cult of personality I would be a Trump supporter.
Immanentize
@Damien: Watching Biden since Oct. 7 has been amazing to me —
Full embrace of Israel winning him serious support IN Israel by Israelis. At a moment when they were is so many ways otherwise leaderless. Then his behind the scene pressure on Israel to cool down their fury. Then the (I think) very smart move to reject a “cease fire” while calling for immediate “humanitarian pauses” ( the distinction still eludes me). And his obvious for some time efforts on behalf of hostages rather than just killing which is what Israelis really seem to want. And now the pressure toward a bigger resolution.
Do the leftiest really want to just stop funding Israel and turn our backs on the soft power we can wield in this situation? That is the immediate gratification aspect that seems so stupid among folks on the left of left.
RevRick
@artem1s: One of my Seminary professors, George Lindbeck, was one of the Lutheran observers at Vatican 2. He was of the opinion that Luther and the Council of Trent were talking past each other, that Luther was coming at the issue from the perspective of the individual’s terrified conscience, while Trent was coming at it from the perspective of the contemplative observer, or from God looking down.
While Missouri and Wisconsin Synod Lutherans may still see the Pope as the antiChrist, mainstream Lutherans have warmed to relations with the Roman Catholic Church.
Suzanne
@artem1s:
OMG YES. This is, like, the O.G. Protestant hymn!
I’ve always suspected that Catholics were jealous of Protestants because we usually wrap church up in an hour. But they really wanted our hymns! LOL! We’ve got a few real bangers.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
@Suzanne:
Here’s the actual full transcript. Judge for yourselves.
Immanentize
@Baud: Tru dat! For example resistance to efforts to slow Climate Change.
I have always hoped an alternate abundant clean energy source could be found to make fossil fuels as valuable as salt. Alas!
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: Early in the war the US leaned hard on Netanyahu to acxede to opposition member Benny Gantz’s conditions for joining a “unity” government. The pressure campaign included a well publicized phone call between Gantz and Senator Schumer, and was accompanied by strong domestic pressure including from within Netanyahu’s Likud party.
This resulted in an agreement ratified by the Knesset whereby Ntenyahu now functions as one of a 3-man War Cabinet along with Gantz and Defense Minister Gallant (who some may remember as the minister Netanyahu tried and failed to fire last Spring).
This is one reason that Israelis regard Netanyahu as a long term problem but no longer an acute one. At this point, political arsonists Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are the ones who threaten peace most directly.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud:
People like to procrastinate. I have a theory about this which I’ll explore later.
Baud
@Immanentize:
Man, climate change. The number of anecdotal stories I come across about people who say their not voting for Biden because their issue is climate change is too damn high!
Just go roll coal and STFU.
Immanentize
@RevRick: Well the RCs and the Lutherans did come to a sort of accommodation on the question of grace.
kalakal
@Suzanne: The Lutherans have Bach and Handel so they’re cheating when it comes to Church music
Suzanne
@Baud: Yeah…. that statement, to me, is really bad. In the very most positive, generous light I could cast on it, it’s hippie-punching. At its worst, it’s warmongering. I am glad that communications since have displayed more care and nuance.
satby
@artem1s: No.
Suzanne
@kalakal: Pretty much all the mainline Protestants do Bach and Handel. We’re mostly the same now, anyway. White, cream color, and maybe spicy white.
bbleh
@Damien: well *I* don’t see why he doesn’t just do what Rightful President Trump would do and get them all in a room together and just knock some sense into their heads. The whole thing would be done in an afternoon! Just more woke librul weakness, afraid to use America’s Rightful Power™ to blah blah rant rave froth …
Am pleased to see that head of Mossad has been in Qatar a couple times. Someone in the Israeli government still has some sense …
Immanentize
Eight Score of years ago today, Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address.
ETA Which means, I guess, that Twelve score and seven years ago today our forefathers… (or is it four fathers?)
Baud
@Immanentize:
It remains to be seen whether this nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.
eclare
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
It was run then to avoid an impact on the hotel/casino workers’ commutes.
Immanentize
@Baud: so true. And it is our lot in the wash of history to see whether it will endure again THIS time.
Geminid
@bbleh: The Mossad chief is not freelancing here, but rather has the backing of the more important elements of Israel’s political leadership.
Immanentize
@eclare: Also, cooler; also might keep people in the casinos longer; also, F1 is deafening so the fewer damaged ears?
Suzanne
@bbleh:
It’s just a real estate deal!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@eclare: Really? Wow. I never thought of that. Like Imm, I thought maybe it was daytime heat related.
Immanentize
@Suzanne: Gaza for Greenland?
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor: The Unions just got a new contract based in large part on a threat to strike during the races. It is like labor is learning!
OzarkHillbilly
An interesting bit of mystery: That’s not a potato: mystery of Egyptian treasures found buried in grounds of Scottish school
Eunicecycle
@Damien: my husband often says, “If there were easy answers, wouldn’t we have solved these problems already?”
Suzanne
@Immanentize: Honestly, I have that thought. Like, if you want your own state, where you don’t have to deal with other people who already live there and who outnumber you…. maybe go somewhere where no one else is yet?! Build your state there?
A state has to be for all its citizens, IMO.
eclare
@kalakal:
We (Protestants) have Ludwig’s Ninth, “Ode to Joy.” We win hands down.
Immanentize
I am going up to Cape Ann this afternoon to have dinner with my friends in Gloucester. They have a (family) home right across the road from the ocean. But before that, I want to stop by the bi-annual big train show in the Shriner’s Memorial Auditorium in Anderson. I love me a Fez.
So I must bid you smart wonderful people adieu.
Steeplejack
@bbleh:
You left out “deal.” Trump would broker a deal that everyone would love!
Damien
@Suzanne: Interesting that you took it that way, because it actually shifted my opinion away from where I stood before seeing the full context. To me, before, it did seem like she was referring to calls for a ceasefire and calling them repugnant, which I was genuinely upset by.
However, after seeing the surrounding questions, it seems to me that she was actually reacting to the equation of Hamas’ actions with Israel’s, which I do find repugnant in the extreme. There are two sides to consider here: everyday Palestinians and Israelis, but Hamas is not a side, Hamas is a pestilence. That, to me, is what she seems to be talking about.
But I do also see how you could view it as her referring to the ceasefire calls that way.
OzarkHillbilly
@eclare: I guess you haven’t noticed that the rest of us stole it. ;-)
Baud
@Steeplejack:
Break out the orb!
Eunicecycle
@zhena gogolia:
Immanentize
@eclare: Aren’t we a little tired of that “joy” thing? Or do you have a great sonorous organ at your place of divine music?
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: What is it you say?
One cannot steal that which has been freely given.
Another Scott
@Baud: I think that the timing of that session is important – that was from October 10. Just 3 days after Hamas’s attacks. I think that Hamas was still fighting in Israel at the time. Before Israel invaded, etc, etc.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Steeplejack
@Damien:
Agree with your interpretation.
eclare
@Immanentize:
I never get tired of it. YMMV.
Alas, no organ at the church I am considering.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: Amen.
Jeffro
@OzarkHillbilly: that’s very cool! Someone should write some alt-history where Egyptian sailors make it out of the Mediterranean and up to Scotland, to stash pharoahs’ treasures!
(Sort of like Clive Cussler’s TREASURE and the Alexandria library =)
Immanentize
@Suzanne: Sadly, speaking for my increasingly isolating self, there do not seem to be any places without people already there.
NotMax
@Baud
Orb? This dilemma demands a tesseract.
//
rikyrah
@Citizen Alan:
Even though Phillips disrespected South Carolina at every turn, when he showed up in South Carolina they showed him respect.
NotMax
@Immanentize
See: Principality of Sealand.
Or plant a flag on a broken off chunk of Antarctica?
;)
Geminid
@Jeffro:
Egyptian to Phoenician trader: “How much tin can I get for this gold orb?”
Phoenician trader: [weighs orb] “12 standard ingots. Deal? Then come back in 6 months, like last time.”
Marmot
@OzarkHillbilly: I was freaking the fuck out about this until I saw the Texas Freedom Network’s (not what it sounds like) release about those textbooks.
Apparently this is the first time textbooks include definite statements about the impact and cause of climate change. Not perfect, but not a step back.
rikyrah
@Soprano2:
Truth
Eunicecycle
@Immanentize: I was told there would be no math.
Princess
They all (Israel, the Saudis, other Arab states) want the Palestinian mess to go away so they can get together and deal with Iran. “Unfortunately “ the citizens of the Arab states really care about Palestine and Palestinians. So it’s tricky. But it looks like Palestine might have peace imposed on it. And like the stories I’ve read that the Arab states are privately thrilled the Israelis are crushing Hamas, are true. I’m seeing a straight line here from Kushner’s Abraham Accord, which we all mocked. But I’m not an expert and there are certainly people who are better informed than I am in this thread so I’m open to correction.
NotMax
@Princess
And rightfully so.
Kay
If Biden can bring Democrats together his problems are over. That’s been true for a year and this recent dip just makes it more true. He has to get closer to where the majority of Democrats are – I mean, he doesn’t “have to”, he could not do it, but he has to if he wants to beat Trump. The best thing he has right now is time- he has 11 months to get Democrats back.
I’m hoping this is the low point and they’ll “come home” – I think they will.
Baud
@Princess: I’m certainly no expert, but my impression is that you can’t accurately analyze the Middle East as if there were only two sides to any dispute.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Suzanne:
I was a Catholic kid. We had four services to choose from on Sunday. If you could get to the 7:30 am, you were in and out in half an hour.
My wife was a professional church musician for most of our marriage, so I’ve been through a lot of denominations. Especially differences in the approach to Communion. I think Protestant denominations who break up an actual piece of bread. I feel like that’s more in the original spirit of Communion.
But the Episcopals, at least some of them, hand you the same wafer that the Catholics use. After all these years, it still bugs me to touch it. Catholics stick out their tongue because only the priest is allowed to touch it.
Yes actually. When I was a kid it was in the 60s and they were trying to get the kids back in church. They’d thrown out the hymnal, thrown out the organ, and instead you had a whole congregation mumbling “Blowin’ in the Wind” to a guitar. I was absolutely jealous of churches that had kept their traditions, including music.
Frankensteinbeck
I don’t see Biden getting any political credit in the US no matter how this ends. He didn’t go balls-to-the-wall against the evil genocidal terrorists, whichever side that is according to any particular angry American. Fortunately, I don’t see any potential American voters being affected by this in a year, either. Our memories are mayfly-brief.
That he’ll do the best possible in this horrible situation morally, that I already trusted him to do.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Thankfully, I have been told that Texas no longer has the power over national textbooks that it used to have. The textbook companies had to fix that exactly because Texas was abusing it so badly.
Also, too, it wasn’t just being mean to fossil fuels. Texas objected to ‘monkey pushing’. Specifically, diagrams that showed humans evolving from apes.
Kay
The general approach for Democrats has always been shoot for the middle – “independents” with the assumption that base Democrats will come home when faced with a binary choice. That’s been true for 30 yearsand it’s a good assumption- they usually do come home. But I’m not clear that even “the middle” (Independents) are approving of Biden in this instance, on this issue, so it seems like that isn’t where we’re going either. Fingers crossed this deal holds. We need it.
Baud
@Frankensteinbeck:
Let’s compromise. Democrats evolved from apes. Republicans evolved from reptiles.
Chief Oshkosh
@Damien: He reminds me of Carter wrt the ME.
Geminid
@Princess: The so-called Abraham Accords were dismissed by many because they were seen as Trump and Netanyahu’s achievement. But they were actually the culmination of a process that’s been going on for two decades.
I think Trump’s influence was negative. Israel and the Arab Gulf states have relied on American support since the 1940s, but now the US’s leader was the self-interested and fickle Trump. The regional powers understood they needed to put their bilateral relations on a sound footing in anticipation of a power vacuum, because they knew Trump did not care about anyone but Trump.
lowtechcyclist
@rikyrah:
Why does Axelrod even matter any more – especially to the likes of Dowd and Worse-than-KMart? Axelrod ran Obama’s Presidential campaigns, but that was 2008 and 2012. I’m sure he’s still well-connected, but why do they need to make a big deal about this to their readers, most of whom haven’t given a thought about Axelrod for years?
Kay
Media people should really make an effort to be more professional and less defensive. They need to stop making everything about them. It’s weird and childish. This kind of petulant pose they take when political leaders don’t take them dead serious is just so off-putting to me. Ugh. HUGE egos.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jeffro:
The Bronze Age ran on tin imported to the Middle East from Wales. Those ancient sailors were way better than they’re given credit for.
Baud
@Kay:
The media and Republicans share the same attitude towards Dems: “How dare they not respect us?”
Kay
They’re mad at Joe Biden because he won’t ADMIT that he sucks and will lose. Christ. Just an embarrassing profession. A bunch of flouncing, easily offended buttercups. They’re more rigid and conventional and humorless than the local Rotary Club. I don’t know- do they HIRE for this? Do they say “find me the biggest scolding pricks who take everything as a personal slight”? Because it can’t just be a natural, random grouping.
NotMax
@Ceci n est pas mon nym
Can’t at the moment recall the particular dour Protestant sect which banned the hymn Old Hundredth in the 19th century as “too sprightly.”
oldgold
@OzarkHillbilly: I thought these treasures were buried on Oak Island. Treasures we have been on the cusp of unearthing for 12 seasons. Of course, one should not discount the fact that several buttons of unknown origin were found in season 8.
Kay
@Baud:
It’s kind of embrassing for Axelrod really. He’s supposed to be this hard boiled newspaper man/political operative. He’s offended because someone in Camp Biden used a bad word?
Christ. Grow up. I get more shit at work in any one random hour than that.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
It strikes me as very unprofessional of them to use their professional platforms to make a big deal over a remark about a person who may be a member in good standing in their club, but who is no longer important in the world at large.
M31
What’s funny is that in the 16th C when they were collecting tunes for hymnbooks, they scooped up everything they could, including secular tunes with decidedly non-Christian lyrics.
The great passion hymn “O sacred head now wounded” (featured prominently in Bach’s St. Matthew Passion) started out as a love madrigal in Italian, lol
Someone complained about this to Martin Luther and he supposedly said “hey, why should the Devil get all the good tunes?”
Baud
@Kay: I’m at the point where winning next year is secondary to us just standing strong and making the rest of them reveal their true colors. They may have had the excuse in 2016 of believing that Hillary was inevitable and Trump was an unknown. They don’t have that excuse this time.
Chief Oshkosh
@Damien:
FWIW, that’s how I took it, too.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Oh, Lord—the orb! I had forgotten that.
Did anyone ever see an explanation of that, other than “weird picture with the sheiks”?
Speaking of orbs (segue), when I have collected myself sufficiently I will report on my Echo/Alexa situation after two months of use.
Marmot
@Frankensteinbeck:
Probs a dead thread now, but don’t get your Texas news from the Guardian. There are a few members of that committee who blocked the few books they could.
More from the Texas Freedom Network:
Then a bit about bullshit that publishers added to satisfy the nuts, then …
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Hornswoggled into joining the Borg collective?
;)
Jay
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67463162
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: Although they would never admit it, many elite journalists are very parochial people.
Steeplejack
@lowtechcyclist:
Because Axelrod jumped on the “Biden should resign” bandwagon and recently said he’s got a 50-50 chance at best of being reëlected. And he’s been getting flak for that. So MoDo has jumped to Axelrod’s defense. (Haven’t read Jonathan Martin’s piece.)
Another Scott
@Frankensteinbeck: @Baud:
[pedant]
Humans didn’t evolve from (what we now call) apes. Humans and apes have a common ancestor – (once called) the quadrumana.
[/pedant]
The famous March of Progress picture really did a disservice for correct thinking about this stuff. Life is a more like a tree than a line. Evolution isn’t some linear, ever better, ever more like us and like the world is now, process.
[/arguing-with-strawman]
Cheers,
Scott.
Marmot
@Another Scott:
Ahem! We are great apes.
/pedantic checkmate libtard
Baud
@Steeplejack:
Resign? That’s a (stupid) step beyond not running for reelection.
Baud
@Another Scott: More like March of Regress, if you ask me.
Marmot
@Baud: Like with most things, Devo got there first.
Baud
@Marmot: wait, is the Texas Freedom Network the good guys or the bad guys? They have a bad guy naming convention.
Harrison Wesley
@Marmot: Speak for yourself. I’m a mediocre ape.
lowtechcyclist
@zhena gogolia:
Context is everything!
SteveinPHX
@Kay: I keep hoping they will come back too, but what will be the catalyst? Somehow wayward Dems and America’s youth need to see/learn how stark a choice they are going to have.
NotMax
@Another Scott
Obligatory?
;)
Kay
@Baud:
Unfortunately I always want to win, a lot, but I too am (also) fatalistic. I think he’s done a great job on the merits and if that isn’t recognized then we deserve what we get. If Biden is defeated then it’s a real defeat for liberal economics, which would be a shame. Apparently people want 0 interest rates and a FIRE-based boom-bust economy where no one makes anything except money.
I just think it’s silly how they’re always “admit YOU’RE LOSING”. He’s never going to fucking do that (even if it were true – he’s a crazily competitive person or he wouldn’t be President) and he shouldn’t do that. Fuck them. I wouldn’t give it to them either. They get nothing. They haven’t earned it. The MOMENT he shows a crack they’ll be screeching “Biden Losing!” from the rooftops. He knows that.
Marmot
@Baud: Good guys. They’re the long-standing pressure group for secularism and so forth. Bummer about the name, but they’ve had it longer than the righties.
Baud
@Kay: Agree completely. Chances are, I’ll be fine no matter what happens. So I’m not going to stress about the welfare of others. I’m going to do the right thing next year.
Kay
@SteveinPHX:
That’s exactly what happens though. They get closer to the election and they realize it’s binary and they vote for the better option. That’s the assumption and it’s a good one. “Sporadic voters” don’t really understand how it works – they think Biden will or can be “replaced” which is just not true. That isn’t going to happen. Part of this is media panic that they don’t really have a primary horserace. They don’t have one on the D side (incumbent) and they don’t have one on the R side (because Republicans are now cult members). They have 11 months of air time to fill to make their multi million dollar salaries and no real primary.
I just finished talking to hundreds of D voters (not all D, but a majority D or D leaning) for the Ohio initiative and they understand the stakes- that if Trump wins their fundamental right to bodily autonony and agency is at risk. I think Democrats will get it. Also- the youngs have poor turnout. We all cheer them on like dads and moms when they show up but even their best “shwoing up” is like 30% turnout, so that’s all Biden is counting on.
Barbara
@Steeplejack: This kind of inside baseball stuff doesn’t matter to anyone not on a first name basis with those mentioned, and it probably barely matters to them either except as a way of signifying who’s in the club.
NotMax
Closed caption hijinks. Just now seen (in a Sherlock Holmes program, no less).
Dialogue: His Ma would be fit to be hogtied if she heard about that.
CC: His Ma would be 50 hogtied if she heard about that.
:)
SteveinPHX
@Kay: You’re cheering me up on a Sunday morning. That cold, hard wind of choice that comes with Election Day.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
+1
Hehe. And it has the benefit of making people think, just a little.
(via https://mastodon.social/explore )
Cheers,
Scott.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize: And there have been Jews in the area for a very long time.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: You think you’d be fine in Putin’s Russia? I wouldn’t. That’s what we’re going to get.
Eyeroller
@Another Scott:
To be even more pedantic, humans didn’t evolve from apes at all–we are apes. Specifically hominidae, the clade that includes chimps, orangutans, gorillas, and us.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I won’t be fine with it, but I’ll probably be fine.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
Okay, trying to keep my Echo/Alexa evangelism to a reasonable level, report so far:
In early September I bought an Echo Pop on a “let me check out this new gizmo and the whole Alexa thing” whim. Turned out I liked it a lot, and later I bought an Echo Dot when Amazon put it on a huge discount for a while. To be honest, I can’t tell much difference in the sound quality between them, but I’m not trying to blast out sound in a large space. I have the Pop in the bedroom and the Dot in the large front room.
Pace NotMax, I haven’t been absorbed into the Alexa collective. I’m not looking to automate my environment into some elaborate Jetsons fantasy. I don’t want surveillance cameras, alarms, smart locks, etc. But I have found the Pop and the Dot to be very valuable. As I said a while ago, you can think of them as clock radios on steroids. You can play music and audio from many sources, you can set alarms and timers, and you can ask them all sorts of Siri/Alexa type questions.
Re audio: One thing I discovered that I like a lot is that you can stream virtually any radio station from around the world if it has a Web presence. So I have been listening to some interesting stations—static-free!—outside of my immediate area. E.g., jazz stations WBGO in the New York metro area (hat tip to jackal JAFD) and KUNV in Las Vegas. And you can link your existing music services to Alexa to play them through the Echo devices. I have done that with SiriusXM.
And you can control things in your environment, if you want to. I bought a smart plug and connected it to a lamp in my living room that is well placed for illumination but a little inconvenient to reach for turning on/off. Now it is easy to just say, “Alexa, turn on the lamp.” Click! I have been surprised at how much I like this one small improvement in the daily routine.
Finally, I report on this now because Amazon is offering steep discounts again ahead of Black Friday. You can get a Pop (usually $40) with a smart light bulb for $18 or a Dot (usually $50) with a smart light bulb for $23. (You can control the light bulb with Alexa.) You can also get the big Echo device (usually $100), which is said to have “bigger” sound, with a smart light bulb for $55 or with an Echo Dot for $78. That’s an excellent deal if you want to take the plunge.
P.S. I have to note that I pimped my rides a bit with a couple of inexpensive but nice stands. (Link to Dot one.)
Also, I’m not profiting by this in any way. It’s something that I have researched and gotten into and think might be informative/useful to fellow jackals. JAFD definitely needs to get one for his apartment with bad FM reception!
Kay
This is just bad thinking. Of course it “makes sense” because if the officer had run into a burning building to save orphans the whole country would cheer and take pride in that although they had “nothing to do with it”.
Conservatives want to attribute all good things to the country as a whole but then won’t take any national responsibility for bad things. It’s the faulty, selfish reasoning of children.
Baud
@Kay:
Not really accurate. If some lib did a bad thing somewhere, it’s a national crisis to them.
eclare
@Eyeroller:
Don’t forget bonobos!
Proud great ape here.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
I may have overstated that a bit in my haste. But definitely that Biden should declare himself a one-termer and get out of the way.
Baud
@Steeplejack:
Ok, thanks.
Kay
@Baud:
Were they, pesonally, in the Revolutionary War? Then they had “nothing to do with it” and cannot credit the country for it or take pride in it.
Baud, when I was in law school sort of weeny, self hating liberals were intimidated by the (alleged!) intellectual firepower on the Right. They were always “JUstice Scalia is BRILLIANT!” Puke. Ass kissers.
God what a crock of shit that turned out to be. They’re all morons. They can’t manage the simplest constructs.
Eyeroller
@eclare: Bonobos are “chimps” in that simple categorization (genus Pan). And apparently three species of orangutan are recognized now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: On BlueSky, it is being reported that Jair Bolsanaro of Brazil has not been seen in public in months because he has a skin infection and cannot wear pants.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
The problem with modern political media in a nutshell, from TV to Tik Tok, from Reagan to TFG…
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ll never hide from the public as president.
Soprano2
@Kay: That’s why I think 95% of it isn’t about his age, it’s about discomfort with the idea of Harris becoming president. I firmly believe that if the VP were a white man, we wouldn’t be hearing this from any Democrats. I object to the idea that being too old (or too young) is a problem by itself.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: I’m sure Duncan Black at Eschaton is quickly moving the goalposts. He seems to believe Biden has the power by himself to stop Bibi and Israel.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Kay:
Ugh, yes. This too.
Kay
Yay! This alone should re-elect Biden. I am not averse to filling out forms and even I dreaded this one. It has more than 100 questions. They wouldn’t take my son’s verification of idenitity this year so we had to mail it in and then they didn’t/wouldn’t acknowlege receipt so I had to call…it took weeks to resolve.
Omnes Omnibus
@Soprano2:
Duncan went off the rails around 2008. Oddly enough, that was about the time that I moved from being a regular there to being here.
Jeffro
@Soprano2: heck if the VP were a white man, we wouldn’t even be hearing it from most Republicans
Soprano2
@eclare: That is a divine piece of music both to perform and to hear performed. When I finally heard it performed live (when I wasn’t in it) I burst into tears at the end. That was totally unexpected.
eclare
@Eyeroller:
I love bonobos, my zoo has some.
Truly the “love the one you’re with” great ape.
eclare
@Soprano2:
I get it. After I made my comment I googled and found a majestic version on YouTube. I teared up a little.
Kathleen
@Baud: I just had the same thought. Would not surprise me if it were true.
Soprano2
@M31: It was common then to set hymns to secular tunes. That made it easy for people to sing along.
sab
@Kay: Well this will cost my accounting firm a lot. //
We have one partner who makes a big chunk of his living filling out FAFSAs. Not faulting him. People do need help with these.
sab
@Baud: You say that but can we believe you. You even take breaks from BJ.
Kathleen
@Damien: My read was the same as yours.
Kathleen
@Omnes Omnibus: Also the year Obama was elected.
The Lodger
@Jeffro: I read
”His rage we can endure, for lol his doom is sure…”
Subsole
@Immanentize:
Funny story, we humans have actually fought wars over salt and the taxes paid on it. We also fought wars over access to spices.
So, kind of like oil.
People have, in fact, killed each other over table seasonings.
Geminid
@Subsole: I read that Rome was established on a trade route that carried salt from the sea into the interior of that part of Italy.
Captain C
@Baud:
And too often, their alternative seems to boil down to, “all the people on the side I don’t like admit they irredeemably suck, and leave quietly.” Destination not specified, of course.
Captain C
@Princess:
In the case of Egypt, they (the government) regard Hamas as an extension of the Muslim Brotherhood, who were the party in power of the government that the current Egyptian regime overthrew in 2014.
We had two teen Egyptian-American teens who were active in the Young Adult programs at our library around then, who spent the summer of 2014 in Egypt with relatives. All of us staff were of course quite worried about them. When they came back, we asked how they were, and what had happened with them, and in the way that only an annoyed teen can respond, they exclaimed, “It sucked! We had to stay in the house all summer! We couldn’t go anywhere!” Can’t argue with that.
Soprano2
@eclare: I have a recording of the live performance of it that was done in Berlin in 1989 after the Wall came down. There’s something special about the performance, you can hear the joy in their voices. Plus, they didn’t have to work at learning how to say the words.
dnfree
@Soprano2: I have that recording also. What a hopeful time that was!
Paul in KY
@Another Scott: I think the common ancestor of apes & humans could be called an ‘ape’ or a ‘monkey’.