Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Open Thread: Cheers for Senator Fetterman

Open Thread: Cheers for Senator Fetterman

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John Fetterman’s an exemplar of the difference between a politician who wants easy approval-clicks, and one who actually cares about doing the job he was elected to do. Holly Otterbein, at Politico — “John Fetterman isn’t the politician you thought he’d be — and he doesn’t care”:

John Fetterman’s had a rollercoaster of a year.

In January, he was sworn into office as Pennsylvania’s new Democratic senator despite suffering from a debilitating stroke on the campaign trail. In doing so, he managed to flip the only seat in the upper chamber during the 2022 cycle. Six weeks after assuming office, he checked himself into a hospital for clinical depression.

Fetterman emerged from Walter Reed National Military Medical Center as an unlikely evangelizer of mental health treatment, something medical professionals applauded as a stigma-busting move that could save lives…

We sat down with Fetterman earlier this month to talk about his disagreements with the left, his beef with Democratic strategist James Carville, why the app formerly known as Twitter is no longer on his phone and his predictions for 2024. Fetterman used a service on his phone that instantly transcribed our conversation as he continues to deal with auditory processing challenges from his stroke…

… Biden’s campaign hasn’t yet announced any battleground staff in Pennsylvania. Should the campaign be more built out in the swing states at this point?

I don’t give anybody advice unless on fashion. … All I do know is that the president will win Pennsylvania. And I do believe if he wins Pennsylvania, and I believe he will, he will be a second-term president.

We’ve talked about this a few months ago, and you told me then you thought Biden would win Pennsylvania and win the overall election. But things have gotten worse for him since. Trump is now ahead in many polls.

But that doesn’t really matter. There’s a whole lifetime in politics between now and next November as well. I’m not worried about that. And I’m very vocal about this, too, while there are Democrats that are being very critical about the president. … I’ll use this [as] another opportunity to tell James Carville to shut the fuck up. Like I said, my man hasn’t been relevant since grunge was a thing. And I don’t know why he believes it’s helpful to say these kinds of things about an incredibly difficult circumstance with an incredibly strong and decent and excellent president. I’ll never understand that.

When I talk to voters, they’re worried about inflation. They really don’t like the economy. Are you not hearing that?

To me, it’s going to come down to good and evil and personalities and everything about this, too. It’s going to be a gut check kind of a situation where it’s just like, really? Really, really, as you’re going into the voting booth, do we want chaos and somebody that is in three or four criminal hearings? Is this somebody that you want to be their finger back on the button? Or do you want to have a decent and very effective president that has gotten us through the pandemic, addressed inflation and has been a real masterclass of diplomacy with Israel?

And that’s the thing. And if you want to be more pissed off about a $16 McDonald’s extra meal, I don’t know.

Is Biden the only Democrat who can beat Trump?

I really am not worried about that because he is my guy. And he is going to be the Democrats’ guy, and I’m proud to campaign with him…

For entertainment purposes only (this is a very ‘influential’ right-wing troll, which is why the screenshot… )
Cheers for Senator Fetterman - STOCKPILE

Reader Interactions

169Comments

  5. 5.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl: I don’t understand that last tweet.  Can someone please explain it to me?

    Maybe this?

    A warning to fellow conservatives not to start embracing Fetterman now that he has declared that he is no longer a “progressive.”

    Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman has been embraced by conservatives after stripping away his self-proclaimed title of a “progressive” Democrat.

    . . .
    Fetterman’s new political stance seemed to please conservatives who criticized him during his successful Senate run in 2022 and during his early days in Congress.

    The hosts of Fox News’ Fox & Friends recently praised Fetterman.

    Brian Kilmeade said Fetterman is someone who gives him “hope for the country.”

    ETA: added text

  8. 8.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: The last tweet probably refers to Fetterman’s position on two issues: the need to improve border security, and the Israel/ Gaza war. But his position on border security is consistent with that of other Democrats including Rep. Ruben Gallego, and his position on this war tracks President Biden’s.

    That’s only two issues, and Fetterman rejects Republican positions on most everything else.

  9. 9.

    Anne Laurie

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:  The Musk-y Brigade are ‘terrified’ that their right-wing minions might start paying attention to the (good!) things Fetterman says, and thereby stray from the  true faith of the GOP.

    Fetterman has always freaked them out, because big dudes in hoodies should belong to *their* team, or what are signifiers even for?

  10. 10.

    Alison Rose

    Also, considering that asshole also tweeted this, I don’t really think we need to pay attention to him

    I am identifying as a White male today. What privilege will I get now?
    — Dom Lucre | Breaker of Narratives (@dom_lucre) December 29, 2023

  11. 11.

    Geminid

    @Nash: Not gonna happen. Fetterman’s another Bob Casey Jr. when it comes to policy.

    Ed. He even said so during his campaign.

    Some people might think that’s a bad thing, but evidently Pennsylvanians don’t because Casey won reelection by over 600,000 votes in 2018.

  13. 13.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I mean, I love my Senators (Ossoff and Warnock), but I wish there were some way I could have Fetterman too.

  14. 14.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Completely O/T: I do love hot spiciness in my food, but on the third night of leftovers I’m starting to think I might have gone slightly overboard with the cayenne when I whipped up my mom’s slumgullion the other day.

  18. 18.

    hrprogressive

    Fetterman is absolutely right; Democrats in this day and age need to stop fucking listening to James Fucking Carville.

    Fuck him, and fuck everyone who doesn’t understand that the 1990’s were 30 fucking years ago and the country and world have changed a lot since then.

  25. 25.

    Scout211

    @Baud: Why would conservatives embrace any Dem?

    I think it’s actually to hurt Democratic unity.  There are many congress members who are more conservative than Fetterman but the conservative media is “embracing” Fetterman’s “conservative” stance on several issues and making it appear as though he is a conservative now.

  30. 30.

    SteveinPHX

    @SiubhanDuinne: My old man used to cook up a batch of slumgullion on the occasional Saturday night. My brother & I were pretty young, but we sure loved that stuff. I remember ground beef, onions, potatoes and healthy doses of black pepper. Cannot remember what other ingredients, if any, were used. He came over here from England right after WW1. Dunno where he got the recipe, but me and my younger bro sure would gobble it up.

  31. 31.

    Scout211

    @Baud: How does that hurt Dem unity?

    Not so much in DC, but have you not been reading the comments here? Even in this thread?

  34. 34.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Baud:

    Why would conservatives embrace any Dem?

    Getting a better angle to slide a knife between a couple of ribs would be my guess.

  35. 35.

    ColoradoGuy

    Fetterman understands that the center of the Democratic Party is the FDR/Truman alliance. Pro-civil rights (for all), pro-justice, pro-union, for here and abroad. And always against fascists.

    FDR’s “Four Freedoms” speech covers it pretty well, and it is as relevant today as it was then.

  36. 36.

    bbleh

    Ok, I’m becoming more and more cynical, but it’s increasingly difficult for me to take seriously anything that any “influencer” or “pundit” — not Carville, not “Dom Lucre,” not any of them — says as anything more than clickbait in the service of brand maintenance and ultimately of cashing in.  I certainly don’t think they care whether their readers really buy their “arguments,” nor do I believe they take them at all seriously themselves, except again insofar as they can get people (especially advertisers and booking agents) excited/angry/worried long enough to click &/or continue to believe in their role as influencer/pundit.

    Their words are little vortices of dust.  Vote, donate, volunteer, organize.

  38. 38.

    Alison Rose

    @Baud: Except for the stupidity of people who hear the weather service saying “please do not go near the coast” and then they immediately go near the coast and then they’re like “wtf i got hit by a huge wave”

    This comment brought to you by all the photos and videos my Santa Cruz-area friends are sharing from local news.

  39. 39.

    Scout211

    @Baud: What else is there?

    Several commenters have responded to your question much more clearly than I can.

    It’s just easy to get people riled up these days when they think that a Democrat isn’t acting progressive enough or liberal enough.  And then conflicts ensue.

  41. 41.

    bbleh

    @Alison Rose: Weather-“casters” are up there with personal physicians in people’s level of trust.  And I agree thoroughly!  They’re so earnestly nerdy, even given the overlay of slightly clownish hype, that it’s impossible not to believe them.  (Also, they’re kinda right a lot of the time…)

  42. 42.

    Mike in NC

    Whenever I see an email from James Carville I hit the delete button without reading it. Remember who he married!

  43. 43.

    hrprogressive

    @Baud: ​
     

    See Alison’s comment; He keeps showing up on MSNBC, and that still gives him a legitimacy he does not need, nor deserve.

  44. 44.

    bbleh

    @Geminid: … clever Crabapples of Discord …

    … which are similar to the unassuming Mandarins of Confusion, but not nearly as awful as the seething Kumquats of Doom.

  46. 46.

    schrodingers_cat

    I am happy to have been proven wrong by Fetterman. I was afraid that he was going to turn out to be on of the uber left bros who love to tell you how the Ds are doing it wrong.

  49. 49.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: OKAY I HAVEN’T READ THIS THREAD BUT FETTERMAN IS NOT LIEBERMAN

    And I’ve never been a big Fetterman stan. But he is NOT A LIEBERMAN

  51. 51.

    Alison Rose

    @zhena gogolia: Yeah, it is a bit odd to try to group Democratic officials into either “hanging ten on the far left end of the political spectrum” or “Lieberman”. Fetterman would have to fuck up about a thousand more times to get close to Lieberman.

  52. 52.

    zhena gogolia

    In the OP, Fetterman says all the right things that we all should be saying, over and over.

  54. 54.

    bbleh

    @Alison Rose: Happens in Floriduh too (“Hurricane Party!!”), except I think the recent increasing frequency and ferocity of storms is starting to penetrate even some of the denser parts of the population.

  61. 61.

    pat

    @Alison Rose:

    I watch MSNBC every night and have never seen Carville on any of the shows I see in the evening.

    Thank goodness.  Maybe it was a thing a while ago, but not now.

  71. 71.

    Layer8Problem

    @zhena gogolia:  I’ve got someone close to me that’s a little too literal and flights of whimsy and sardonic asides need to get explained.  My reaction’s automatic these days.  😁

  78. 78.

    divF

    @bbleh: Over at LGM, someone recently quoted Lionel Trilling’s dictum about conservative thought as consisting of “irritable mental gestures which seek to resemble ideas”.

    Bears repeating.

    Also, I liked the way Fetterman slipped in his snarky “I don’t give anybody advice unless on fashion”.

  82. 82.

    zhena gogolia

    @Soprano2: His Wikipedia article is overblown and hard to read, but it does mention him being a regular on MSNBC with Brian Williams during the 2020 campaign. I don’t know about now, because I don’t watch TV news at all, not even Youtube clips.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    News for Geminid

    ISTANBUL, Dec 29 (Reuters) – The Turkish Super Cup final between Galatasaray and Fenerbahce scheduled to be played in Saudi Arabia’s capital Riyadh on Friday was postponed over what the clubs described as “some problems” in the event’s organisation.

     

    At the heart of those issues, according to media reports, was the wish of the two Istanbul teams to wear t-shirts featuring the founder of modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, during the warm-up ahead of the evening kick-off.

     

    Turkish media said Saudi officials had rejected this demand, though it was not clear why, and that the clubs refused to play in the Super Cup final at the King Saud University venue, which is also known as Al-Awwal Park stadium, as a result.

  85. 85.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: All the far lefties on Twitter are upset that he “lied” to them about being progressive even though he’s saying the same things he’s always said. It’s like how they projected things onto Obama that he never said or believed just because he was black.

  87. 87.

    Alison Rose

    @Soprano2: Feels a little silly to get so caught up in a term. My mom doesn’t use the word “progressive” for herself because she doesn’t like aligning herself with some of the people who use it. But as far as her political opinions and how she votes, she is basically a progressive.

  90. 90.

    Roberto el oso

    The thing about Fetterman supposedly rejecting his “progressive” descriptor is that he (appropriately) replaced it with the simpler and more inclusive “Democrat”. It reminds me of Barney Frank saying that Bernie Sanders (whom he liked) was a Liberal but was ashamed of the term and therefore decided to call himself a Socialist. Fetterman appears to be doing the same, in reverse, and any conservatives who think there is a huge void of nothingness between ‘conservative’ and ‘progressive’ are just being themselves (i.e. idiots).

  91. 91.

    Roberto el oso

    @Harrison Wesley: this seems correct. I also wonder whether the Ataturk tee-shirts might reflect a form of protest within Turkey itself, given that Erdogan has swung further away from those secular origins and embraced many aspects of Anatolian fundamentalism. Maybe the Saudis don’t want Erdogan to take offense. (All pure speculation on my part).

  93. 93.

    CaseyL

    I figured out a few years ago (before Bernie Sanders, but Bernie Sanders really solidified it for me) that “progressive” means “hates Democrats and reliably sabotages them,” so it’s not a label I’d want to hang on anyone I liked/admired/supported.

    Good old “Liberal” is fine for me.

  96. 96.

    RevRick

    I’m not inclined to trash any Democrat, including Bernie Sanders, Krysten Sinema, Joe Manchin, because, for me, it accomplishes nothing. The fact of the matter is that all three contributed to all of Biden’s judicial appointments and the passage of the majority of his agenda. I’m a bottom line kind of guy in that way. Yeah, guys go ahead and shake your fist or flounce or act like a jerk, because what matters is your vote.
    I bet if you asked President Biden what he thinks of them he’d praise them to high heaven… and mean it. And he’d probably say a few nice words about Joe Lieberman,* too. And I believe this, because you know, really know, what generosity of spirit animates our President.

    * Joe went to high school with my brother and sister in law and was their class President

  97. 97.

    Captain C

    @Baud:

    though it was not clear why

    Bone Saw doesn’t want its his [bad prepost edit] ppl to see the face of a man who overthrew a long-term monarchy and get ideas, perhaps?

  99. 99.

    frosty

    @satby: Sorry to see Greg Sargent go. I haven’t seen his former blogging buddy Paul Waldman in awhile, I guess he’s gone too.

    Fortunately, Megan McArdle and George Will are hanging on! /s

  100. 100.

    Roberto el oso

    @RevRick: this is very much an attitude I try to aim for, although I do fail from time to time …. thank you for the reminder that we’re all in this together.

  101. 101.

    Jackie

    Here’s good news for Friday!

    “A federal appeals court on Friday allowed a lawsuit brought by a group of U.S. Capitol Police officers against former President Donald Trump to move forward, ruling that Trump is not entitled to absolute immunity from civil lawsuits,” CBS News reports.

    “The suit focuses on Trump’s alleged conduct surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the U.S. Capitol.”

    “The three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit based its decision on a ruling in a separate case brought by two Capitol Police officers and a group of House Democrats that was handed down earlier this month.”

    No immunity for TIFG – at least in this civil case. Hopefully, a very bad omen for him regarding the J6 federal case!

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    @Baud: This is funny. Galatasary and Fenerbahce are Istanbul football clubs. They’re like crosstown rivals, but they’re actually cross-Bosphorus rivals: Galatasary’s home pitch is on the European side and Fenerbahce’s is on the Asia side.

    Turks are celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Turkish Republic, and for them Kemal Ataturk is like George Washington and Franklin Roosevelt rolled into one. But other Muslim nations don’t like him because he created a secular state. Kemal abolished the Caliphate, changed the sabbath to Sunday, and replaced Arabic script with a Roman-type alphabet. And then of course there was his Hat Law.*

    I’ll have to see what my Twitter acquaintance, Bora Bingol (@bora_bingol) has to say about this. He’s an “old school Kemalist” and a big Galatasaray fan.

    *Kemal Atataturk was absolutely determined to modernize Turkey, so he banned the fez common in the Ottoman Empire and required Western headware instead. It was Homberg or go home. When some Islamists in a Black Sea coastal town staged protests over the Hat Law, Kemal sent a Navy cruiser to shell the place. I don’t think anyone was killed, but they got the message.

  105. 105.

    wjca

    @Jackie: No immunity for TIFG – at least in this civil case. Hopefully, a very bad omen for him regarding the J6 federal case!

    And those repeated “no immunity” decisions each make the next one easier.

    Of course, SCOTUS can always just ignore them (since stare decisis is now a dead letter).  But at least the three political hacks seem likely to hold back from a decision that a Democratic President might then use to their personal detriment.

  108. 108.

    TriassicSands

    No Democratic elected official is perfect. When Fetterman came out with his statement about Israel and progressives, my estimation of him went down, but not to the point where I wouldn’t support him (unless a better alternative existed).

    I think Fetterman is wrong about Israel and I found his comments about progressives/progressivism to be unnecessarily gratituitous. I’ve never thought he was my ideal senator, but I don’t expect that as a condition of my support. If I lived in Pennsylvania, I would support him if he were the nominee, but if there were another candidate I thought was better AND could win, I would likely support that person. Purity is nice, though unattainable, but winning is critical. No one is “entitled” to an office. That has to be earned.

    Moderate Democrats are vital to holding majorities, but I don’t think they have many, if any, answers to the problems this country faces today. In many cases, doing something, instead of what is necessary, is better than doing nothing, but that won’t solve anything, though it may sometimes improve the situation. Alternatively, sometimes inadequate responses are potentially worse than doing nothing, because they give the impression that things are being done, when, in fact, the problem will continue to get worse not better.

    Personally, I feel that there is far too much crowing about “moderates” in this country, because our problems are often not moderate and moderate responses may be wholly inadequate. I’d like to see icebergs melted (figuratively speaking) resulting in enough water to extinguish a fire, rather than have a bunch of ice cubes chipped off allowing people to have “colder” drinks while the house burns down.

    Republicans can come out and “embrace” Fetterman because they hope that will contribute to dissension among Democrats. That is only likely for people who aren’t very bright, which describes Republicans quite well. I’ve ignored Carville for decades. His entire presence is due to making a statement decades ago — “It’s the economy, stupid.” I’ve always thought he was a creep and an ass-hole.

  109. 109.

    Alison Rose

    Another bit of good news, and once again, fuck you, Kim Reynolds:

    A federal judge in Iowa temporarily blocked on Friday the enforcement of a law backed by Republicans that banned books describing sex acts from public school libraries.

    In granting the preliminary injunction, Judge Stephen Locher said that the law “makes no attempt to target such books in any reasonable way.”

    “Instead, it requires the wholesale removal of every book containing a description or visual depiction of a ‘sex act,’ regardless of context,” the judge wrote. “The underlying message is that there is no redeeming value to any such book even if it is a work of history, self-help guide, award-winning novel or other piece of serious literature. In effect, the Legislature has imposed a puritanical ‘pall of orthodoxy’ over school libraries.”

    The publisher Penguin Random House and the best-selling authors John Green and Jodi Picoult were among the plaintiffs who challenged the measure on free-speech grounds.

    Although this part bugs me:

    Judge Locher, who was appointed by President Biden to the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Iowa, also blocked a portion of the law that imposed limits on instruction about sexual orientation and gender identity before seventh grade. The judge let stand a rule requiring schools to notify parents when a student asks to be called by a new pronoun.

    People never want to contend with the possibility that the child will be abused at home if their parents know about this

    Reynolds said “The real debate should be about why society is so intent on over-sexualizing our young children.” But don’t worry, girl, they won’t have the energy for sex after you’ve let them go hungry.

  115. 115.

    geg6

    @CaseyL:

    Exactly.  I’m a liberal Democrat and I don’t want to be lumped in with almost all the progressives I ever met or seen or heard or read.  They are assholes.

  118. 118.

    Alison Rose

    WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE. I won’t say “men” even though I’m sure the majority of them were men. But still WHAT THE FUCK.

    In 2013, Milana Vayntrub, a 26-year-old actress, tried out for the role of a cheerful store employee in a national commercial. “I dressed like I imagined a friendly girl would dress,” Vayntrub recalled by phone a decade later. She wore a blue floral-print cotton dress with white sneakers, her long hair pulled into a ponytail. Vayntrub was convincing as a pleasant store supervisor. She landed the part, playing Lily, a brunette who had mildly comic interactions with strangers while working in an AT&T store, for about three years — becoming, in the process, slightly less famous than a C-list celebrity, but much more famous than most people.

    After the Lily campaign ended in 2017, Vayntrub stopped acting in commercials entirely and took up directing them. (She was hired by a production company that had worked on some of the AT&T spots.) She went on to direct ads for everything from cheese brands to charitable foundations. In 2020, when Covid lockdowns paralyzed commercial productions, Vayntrub and a colleague proposed — unsolicited — the resurrection of the chipper store employee to AT&T: This time, Lily would be working from home. AT&T greenlit the proposal. Vayntrub directed the spots herself. She filmed the national ads in her own house, recreating Lily’s hair and makeup herself under the remote supervision of a professional.

    A few months into the reprisal, however, the tenor of Lily’s — and therefore Vayntrub’s — reception abruptly veered from benign tolerance to lecherous malevolence. In the summer of 2020, seemingly overnight, one small but vocal corner of the internet fixed its gaze upon Vayntrub and began referring to her by a new name: Mommy Milkers, a reference to her breasts. En masse, people spammed the comment sections of AT&T’s social-media posts with lewd declarations and emojis of glasses of milk. The jeering became inescapable for Vayntrub, bleeding into the comments of her personal social-media accounts. Recent posts and years-old ones were targeted. Her personal photos were widely redistributed among strangers. Spammy websites promised access to pornographic videos of her that did not exist. The physical isolation of lockdown exacerbated the experience for Vayntrub. “Our real world was so small,” she said, “that the internet felt like everything.”

    …

    The onslaught could have cost Vayntrub her job; it is not ideal if an advertiser is compelled to scold potential customers for engaging with the content it has paid to show them, as AT&T did in its own comment sections. (“We don’t condone sexual harassment of employees in the workplace or on our social channels,” @ATT replied to an Instagram user who announced a desire to “suck on” Vayntrub’s breasts.) The company released a statement condemning the harassment, worked with social platforms to stanch the flow of inappropriate comments and put Vayntrub in touch with a team from Instagram, to discuss ways to further mitigate the problem.

    Just toss this world in the trash and let’s start fresh with a new creation.

    Stephanie Courtney, Flo from Progressive, reached out to her to help her through all this shit. But JFC. You can think someone is hot without being a drooling, abusive, nasty little pig about it.

  119. 119.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    *Grumble* Yet another book character just rips the hem of her skirt to bandage a wound. I challenge you to rip the hem off an intact piece of clothing with your bare hands.

  120. 120.

    Mousebumples

    @Alison Rose: The judge let stand a rule requiring schools to notify parents when a student asks to be called by a new pronoun.

    I am also not pleased about that part of the decision, but the news article I read indicated the judge said they didn’t have standing for that part of the lawsuit. So no actual judicial ruling was made on that part.

    But GOP does not have the best interests of children in mind here.

  122. 122.

    Geminid

    @Roberto el oso: Erdogan has embraced the Kemalist legacy, at least the nationalist part. He did push back against the hyper-secularism imposed by the military and judiciary from 1980 through 2003. But the Headscarf Law he pushed through in 2006(?) only gave women the right to wear a headscarf in a public school or building, and in no way made it a requirement.

    As late as 2002, a young college student got a six month prison sentence for wearing a headscarf to her final exams. Now there is a provincial Governor who took office wearing a headscarf. At the ceremony, she reviewed part of the province’s police force. They all saluted her, but 20 years ago they could have arrested her.

    Erdogan is a devout Muslim for sure, but Turkiye’s Sufis-based Islam is in ways very different from Saudi Arabia’s Wahabist version.

    I’ll be interested in Erdogan’s reaction to this. He’s very much a nationalist. Erdogan was also a baller in his younger days, and might have played football professionally had his coast guardsman father not insisted he go to college instead.

  123. 123.

    NobodySpecial

    I don’t understand why many Dems don’t understand that a lot of Dem voters are people who fled the dying GOP because it went insane, but still harbor many conservative views.

    Fetterman is useful for being a good figure to solidify the right wing of the Democratic Party while also helping shift them into more liberal stances using effective communication they respond well to. Bonus that he’s not a grifter like Menendez.

  126. 126.

    Ohio Mom

    @SiubhanDuinne: Had to google slumgullion. Around here, we call that beefaroni. It’s one of Ohio Dad’s specialties.

    If I were you I might consider freezing whatever is left for another day; when you are ready to defrost it, add more pasta, beef, etc., but not more cayenne obviously.

    i like leftovers but I can’t do three days in a row of the same dish. So off to the freezer.

  129. 129.

    scav

    @Alison Rose: Heaven forfend little Iowans learn anything whatsoever about sex!  Little sneaks might rat out their priests, uncles and boy scout leaders and then where would we be?!

  130. 130.

    Lyrebird

    @Baud: ​

    @Geminid: ​
     

    Thanks Geminid! Love your crabapples line as well.

    But for the shirts, isn’t it also that they depict a human? I think only plants and maybe animals are okay for representation on fabric, art, etc., rest has to be abstract or calligraphy.

  131. 131.

    NobodySpecial

    @Nukular Biskits: I would describe his renarks on border security as more conservative. There are other Democrats who also offer much more pro-gun/2A commentary aimed specifically at more conservative voters.

    People can change views over time, and it’s helped when someone who has respect but a different opinion relates to them. It’s why right wingers are terrified of Fetterman: He looks like them and garners respect while being able to articulate Liberal values people can agree with. If not for his stroke, I would have loved to see him run for President in 2028.

  132. 132.

    Nukular Biskits

    @NobodySpecial:

    I should have been a little more specific.

    (With acknowledgement towards the discussion above about “progressives”), I tend to identify as progressive, liberal, Democrat on most issues.  Having said that, however, I tend to hold some views that, once upon a time, would have been considered “conservative”, such as “small government”; i.e., I’m opposed Republican efforts to use the power to state government to impose “conservative” (note the quotes there) views on local governments.  For example, here in the South, there is a big push by Republicans to restrict the right of local governments to remove Confederate monuments from public property.

    I guess what I’m saying here is that the definition of some (all?) political/ideological terms is probably somewhat fluid.

  133. 133.

    rekoob

    @Alison Rose: This is horrible. I first saw Vayntrub as a friend of Wil Wheaton’s, and she appeared on game shows and the like. It was fun to see her as the voice and appearance of AT&T. She and her parents fled Uzbekistan in the late-80s to escape anti-semitism.  Appalling.

  140. 140.

    SenyorDave

    @geg6: What’s next, whining about social justice warriors?  Progressives are the assholes who helped to push through ideas like the 40 hour work week.

  143. 143.

    wjca

    @Alison Rose: I love how they call 8 hours of chores “school”. Nice magic trick. Even in Montessori, the kids aren’t just cleaning all day long.

    It’s why they get so hysterical at standardized test to assure that home schooled children actually are getting a basic education.  Embarrassing to have it shown that their kids have learned nothing.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @Steeplejack: Sounds like some Turkish sports promoter engineered this with the Saudis. The Kingdom is trying to be a center for football, and hosts a lot of matches for European teams.

    This one looks like a real screwup though. This Turkish league championship is for the President’s Cup, and the President in question is Kemal Ataturk, and this is the 100th anniversary of the Turkish Republic Kemal fought to establish. But Saudi Arabia prohibits showing Ataturk’s image or his writings, mainly because he put the most powerful Muslim country in the Mideast on a secularist path.

    Besides the warm-up shirts, the Turkish teams wanted to have posters with one of Ataturk’s precepts: “Peace at Home, Peace in the World.” That sounds fairly innocuous, but the Saudis are very sensitive about their own role in the Gaza war and may have felt criticized. They are basically siding Israel.

    So Turkish Twitter is in an uproar, and people are abusing the Saudis and calling for the promoter to be run out of Turkiye. But there is a big silver lining: the championship will be played on Turkish soil after all.

  146. 146.

    wjca

    @Nukular Biskits: what constitutes “conservative views” these days?

    Just what they always were, before reactionaries, fascists, and other scum seized on the label to conceal their actual worldview.

    To wit, preference for gradual changes (when possible**), for testing proposed changes in limited areas before rolling them out across the board, stuff like that.  Contrast the self-proclaimed progressives’ frequent enthusiasm for sweeping changes, without bothering with a reality check, consideration of unintended consequences, and other niggling details,

    ** And recognition that sometimes, in unusual cases, drastic change may be necessary.

  151. 151.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @SenyorDave: You know that is not what people are talking about.  It’s bordering on the GOP tactic of saying Democrats are actually pro-slavery because “Civil War ha gotcha libtard.”  Don’t be that guy.

  152. 152.

    Geminid

    @Lyrebird: I’m not exactly sure about the image question. I’ve seen pictures of Saudi magszine covers with pictures of people, so I don’t think they’re too strict.

    But Kemal Ataturk is a very controversial figure among Islamists because he rejected the dominant role religion played in Ottoman society. He believed that Turkiye could never be modernized unless it was a secular nation, and he shaped its political and system and society accordingly.

    Kemal pushed through most of his major reforms during the first 5 years of the Republic, but he waited ten years to institute one of the biggest. That was the political emancipation of Turkiye’s women. A dozen or so women entered the Grand National Assembly as Deputies in 1934, and by the end of the decade women were Air Force pilots.

    Woman serve in the Turkish military to this day, and when most of the Navy sailed past Istanbul for the 100th anniversary celebration, several of the admirals reviewing the ships were women.

  156. 156.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: December already was a wild month for Turkish football. The top league suspended play for a week after the president of Ankaragucu F.C.punched out a referee after a game, on December 11. Faruk Koca was arrested the next day along with two fans who kicked the ref while he was lying on the pitch. Kocu’s attorney’s request for bail was granted after two weeks and he will stand trial January 11 for violating the Turkish law on violence in sports. Koce has been given a lifetime ban from Turkish football, and the AKP Party that he helped R.T. Erdogan establish has expelled him.

    Fun Football facts: Galatasary’s players are the Lions, while Fenerbahce’s are the Golden Canaries.

  158. 158.

    Geminid

    @Lyrebird: The Saudis say that images are banned from ithe stadium, but the Turks are saying, “What about that big picture of Reynaldo that we saw?”

  160. 160.

    Kay

    I think “trolling” anti war activists by grinning and smirking when they get arrested is obnoxious and childish and really disrespectful to people who have a different view on this war than he does. He’s made it clear he won’t be listening to any dissent on the issue from his constituents, that’s for sure. It’s pro war or shut up in Fetterman’s office.

    Sorry- I don’t think it’s admirable even if it is his “authentic self” or whatever. They’re anti war. That’s a legitimate position and since they are unwillingly funding this I think it’s his duty to engage with them and explain why they are funding it.

  161. 161.

    Kay

    Why is it only acceptable to insist progressives aren’t real Democrats but not permitted to insist centrists or Right leaning Democrats are not real Democrats? Why is one “divisive” and the other not? Besides the obvious, which is media adores Democrats who bash progressives?

  162. 162.

    Kathleen

    @satby: Dead thread I know. Sad to say it sounds like it was involuntary but he got an offer package. Look for,WaPo political coverage to become more insufferable. I’m afraid,Milbank, Dianne, Robinson and Rubin may be next . I already told WaPo I’m not renewing.

  164. 164.

    Kathleen

    @mrmoshpotato: WaPoo has been featuring a series of articles about home schooling and it is ecxellent. I came away  in awe of those parents who are bucking the system.

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