Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

The Supreme Court is corrupt. Democrats must win in November and force court reform.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Books are my comfort food!

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Open Thread: I’m With Them

Open Thread: I’m With Them

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First ad of 2024 dropped this morning.

Open Thread: I'm With Them

Also, mark your calendars:

Jan 3 (Reuters) – President Joe Biden will mark the third anniversary of the Jan. 6 attacks on the U.S Capitol with a political speech the day before to make the case that Republican Donald Trump poses an existential threat to democracy, Biden’s re-election campaign said on Wednesday.

Biden’s campaign said he will speak near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, where George Washington established headquarters during the Revolutionary War. The speech site, Montgomery County Community College, is about 15 miles away.

Why are you voting for Biden-Harris?

Open thread

Reader Interactions

172Comments

  7. 7.

    artem1s

    Harris was my first choice in 2020. When Joe announced he was picking her as his VP, I knew he was serious about extending the Dem Big Tent in reality and extending power to women and POC.
    Also,too yea ice cream trucks on every corner. But boo, I’m still waiting for my taco trucks and Obama/Sorosbucks!

  12. 12.

    ronno2018

    Climate change policies.  Republicans are nuts about not recognizing the threat.  All other international conservatives are pretty sane about the science and action needed. Not USA nut jobs.

  13. 13.

    Skippy-san

    Because he is a decent man, and not a traitor like the probable GOP nominee. I did not give 44 years of service to the US government to see fascists win.

  15. 15.

    StringOnAStick

    Joe has the same crooked smile that I do, so we’re buds.

    Oh, and my bud is strongly anti-fascist; we’re sympatico that way.

  16. 16.

    lollipopguild

    I am voting for Biden-Harris so that we remain a democracy and not become a right wing dictatorship. When right wingers heap praise on Franco and Pinochet and yes tricky Dick Nixon you know exactly where they would take the country given half a chance.

  17. 17.

    Josie

    I first supported Harris. When she bowed out, I changed to Biden. I have not regretted my choices in any way since then. They are both doing the best job possible in an incredibly difficult time.

  19. 19.

    Brachiator

    Why are you voting for Biden-Harris?

    Because I am not an idiot.

    Biden has not got everything he wanted as president, but he acts like a man who has been in politics for a long time and has a vision of what needs to be done. And so he is doing it.

  21. 21.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Alison Rose: yes, if TFG wins, I’m just going to dig a big tunnel somewhere in BFE and hibernate for 4 years. I cannot deal with another 4 years of TFG.

  22. 22.

    Kirk

    Why? I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

  23. 23.

    Bill Arnold

    – Best economy in my adult lifetime, fully distributed across the population.
    – With a hair-thin majority, led (along with House and Senate leadership) passage of amazing legislation.

  27. 27.

    rekoob

    Whenever anyone asks me why I’m a Democrat (it doesn’t happen very much any more, admittedly), I say “Barbara Jordan”. Her clear, thoughtful leadership in Watergate and her keynote at the 1976 Democratic National Convention in New York was an inspiration. I’ve never looked back. The President and Vice President build on what Representative Jordan and her colleagues established.  I can’t wait to vote for them again, and to vote Lisa Blunt Rochester into the US Senate.

  28. 28.

    StringOnAStick

    As I said to  the idiotic 62 yo MD who told me she refuses to vote for Biden because he’s old, the D’s never do what she wants (the far left progressives like her are the party base dontcha know), and that the most important issue facing the world is climate change, exactly how much is going to be done about mitigating climate change if R’s are in power?  Climate change is THE existential threat to all of humanity; one party alone in the US accepts that as truth, and the other is full steam ahead on ignoring it and burning even more carbon.

    I think making climate change mitigation the centerpiece of voter outreach to young people is what is needed, and is what the Biden campaign will do.  Every 18-24 yo I know lives with the constant fear that they don’t have a future unless climate change is addressed even more aggressively, and they aren’t wrong.

  30. 30.

    Almost Retired

    Where are the white working class voters in rural diners in that commercial?  How can they say they are inclusive without featuring real ‘muricans eating biscuits and gravy?

    Other than that, it’s a powerful commercial.  It’s hard to exaggerate the threat to democracy posed by Pantload PInochet.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @StringOnAStick:

    she refuses to vote for Biden because he’s old, the D’s never do what she wants (the far left progressives like her are the party base dontcha know), and that the most important issue facing the world is climate change,

     

    The most important issue facing this person is hating Dems.

  35. 35.

    StringOnAStick

    @Baud: She received no quarter from me and I fought hard at every turn of the conversation.  She demanded numbers and statistics, and at the end of the night when I promised her I would get her some answers, there was a mildly sheepish “you’ve given me some things to think about”.

    What she got a day later was a long email with links and summaries in case she didn’t want to go read at the links; I forwarded it to a fellow traveler who then forwarded it enthusiastically to her two young 20’s activist kids with a hearty Hell Yes, This Is How You DO it!  I know we D’s make the mistake of thinking if our ads would just explain things better, people would vote for us, and that this doesn’t work because there’s no emotional connection and no “storytelling”.  My main points to Dr DA (DumbAss, though I was nice and respectful at the time) is (1) the Biden admin pushed through the single biggest investment ever in climate change mitigation, (2) since funding bills by law must originate in the House, there has been no more $ for climate change mitigation since the R’s took the House in 2022, and (3) if she ever wants to see any federal money again for climate change mitigation, the only way that will happen is if the D’s hold POTUS, the Senate and the House, period.  Choose wisely, you have children in their 20’s.

  39. 39.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    I’m voting for Biden because he’s OLD!

    Sort of kidding.. he has lots of experience. He’s done a competent job overall as president partly because of that experience. I don’t agree with a number of things Biden has done (too slow and too cautious on Ukraine, for example), but I never agree with presidents 100%. Plus, Harris will make a fine president if Biden dies in office.

    The things above would make me vote for Biden even if the likely nominee weren’t Trump. Because of Trump, though, I would crawl over broken glass while on fire to vote for Biden.

  44. 44.

    StringOnAStick

    @Alison Rose: Me either.  That she gets all her news from The Intercept likely has something to do with it.  Why they think the D party should pursue a group that does the “I refuse to vote for you” vote withholding game at the drop of any hat makes me wonder if they’ve ever been on the other side of such a transaction and if it ever worked for them.  Why pursue a group of such untrustworthy voters?

     

     

    @TaMara: I will dig it up and forward it to you.

  45. 45.

    scav

    Because I have a brain.  And a functioning heart (one that isn’t a spotlit dedicated personal mirror).  And because I don’t think the most dedicated whiners dictate reality.

  47. 47.

    Dangerman

    I think January 6th needs to be taken back; day of volunteering or something. Trump has some speech scheduled. Fuck him. Time for a tsunami of goodness and decency to wipe away that flotsam.

  48. 48.

    RevRick

    I have a bazillion reasons why, starting with Biden and the Democrats are not God-damned fascists. But that’s not the only reason. I can rattle off all the positive accomplishments, beginning with climate change legislation. I’ll be dead, but I don’t want to leave a hellscape behind for my granddaughter.

  50. 50.

    Chat Noir

    @artem1s:

    Harris was my first choice in 2020. When Joe announced he was picking her as his VP, I knew he was serious about extending the Dem Big Tent in reality and extending power to women and POC.
    Also,too yea ice cream trucks on every corner. But boo, I’m still waiting for my taco trucks and Obama/Sorosbucks!

    Same here! When I saw the announcement on my BBC Breaking News app on my phone, I yelled, “He picked Kamala!

    Edited to add: also, reproductive rights for all

  51. 51.

    Nukular Biskits

    My reason?  There simply is no other sane choice.

    I realize that may sound like damning by faint praise. It’s not intended to be.  I don’t give a rat’s ass about Biden’s age.  As far as I’m concerned, he’s the right man for the job right now, possessing the requisite experience, knowledge and character.

    Plus, I think he’s a helluva guy.

  52. 52.

    EarthWindFire

    Where do I begin?

    They are the most underrated president and vice president of my lifetime, when you compare what they’ve done to how they’re portrayed. That’s shitty and damned if I won’t have their backs.

    Joe Biden navigated the shitstorms he inherited as well as I could ever expect, getting out of Afghanistan with minimal loss of life and NO DEALS with the Taliban (unlike what we would have gotten with TFG) and getting vaccines in the arms of hundreds of millions. Plus we finally got Infrastructure Week!

    Inflation has gone down faster in this country and net worth has gone back up faster in this country than anywhere in the world post-Covid. I will bring those receipts to anyone who bitches about the American economy.

    Most importantly, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris trust ALL of we the people to govern our bodies and our country. Not a single Republican does. I am absolutely thrilled that their first ad of 2024 tackles this head on.

    Thank you for listening to my 2024 election TED talk. :-)

  54. 54.

    CaseyL

    Why will I vote for Biden-Harris?

    I would vote for them even if we were not facing down a fascist movement.

    I am a Democrat.  I vote for the Democrats.

    Because the Democratic Party has been the Party of “doing the best for the most people” ever since FDR. (Even in its less fascist days, the GOP was all about the rich.)

    I am a Democrat.  I vote for Democrats.  Period.

  55. 55.

    Suzanne

    @Nukular Biskits: Agreed.

    I reserve the right (always) to complain and disagree about politicians. But, like, ultimately, whomever the Dems pick in whatever primary is gonna be fine and I am more than happy to vote for an utterly reasonable consensus pick… because that’s how team efforts work. And Biden has done a good job. He’s a good person.

  59. 59.

    Geminid

    I like that Valley Forge is in Pennsylvania, and Montgomery County Community College is in the Philalphia suburbs. Pennsylvania is still a political battle ground. Democrats seem to be gaining the upper hand in the Keystone State, but they need to keep the pressure on and I think President Biden’s appearances can help.

    This could also be an effective New Year’s start for President Biden’s national campaign. And as it happens, Congress goes back into session two days later, with some critical legislation on the table. I think the President will have something to say on that as well.

  62. 62.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @EarthWindFire:

    They are the most underrated president and vice president of my lifetime

    He’s by far the best president of my lifetime (I honestly don’t pay attention to VPs so this is no dis on her).

  63. 63.

    wjca

    @Kirk: Why? I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

    Ditto.

    “Because I’m not an idiot” has merit.  But when trying to convince some low information potential voter, it’s less persuasive.

  67. 67.

    Alison Rose

    @Baud: Kinda want to see in the next election Orban get a challenger in their 30s who uses the Hamilton line in their campaigns, just because I’m a fucking dork who would find it funny. “Vote for me because I’m young, scrappy, and Hungary.”

  70. 70.

    Hob

    @StringOnAStick: ​Why they think the D party should pursue a group that does the “I refuse to vote for you” vote withholding game …. Why pursue a group of such untrustworthy voters?

    I guess it depends on what counts as pursuing. I agree that there are hardcore absolutists/contrarians who can’t be reached and aren’t really arguing in good faith (I mean, they may really believe what they believe, but they’ve stopped listening to such an extent that they see any argument as just a soapbox). But I think there’s always an in-between area where someone is an idealist but is still trying to figure out what political engagement means and whether it has a point, and they haven’t yet stopped listening, and they’re extra likely to be swayed by anyone who also seems to be an idealist with strong feelings. So the first group is always competing with us [where by “us” I mean practically everyone else who’s anywhere on the left side] to encourage the second group to be more like them; and people in the second group also listen to each other, so helping one of them to be more able to see the bigger picture is equivalent to helping all their friends as well… even though those arguments can be very very very frustrating because it’s so common for a partially-informed passionate idealist to assume “everyone else is just brainwashed by the system and doesn’t know about [pick some thing I recently learned about]”.
    I can say all this with confidence because I was one of those people: 24 years ago I was a passionate Naderite, I really thought I was highly politically aware because I had read a few lefty sources a lot, and I had picked up incredibly dumbass opinions like “Roe v. Wade isn’t a real issue because it’ll just go back to the states!” And I was doing my best to persuade other people to that point of view, although fortunately I was very bad at doing that (it’s for the best that this was pre-social-media, I might’ve been better at it now). I don’t know any particular thing the Democrats at large could’ve said to reach me, but I do know that I was lucky to have one friend who kept persisting against my utter bullshit and kindly but firmly pointing out why it didn’t make sense, which I didn’t acknowledge at the time but it did have a major effect. And the effect isn’t just on one person’s vote, it’s everyone else they interact with.

  71. 71.

    buggrit

    I was nodding along with so many of the above, that I thought I would just leave you with my son’s take, which was that he was going to vote for the party that wasn’t actively trying to kill him.

  73. 73.

    Suzanne

    From Political Wire:

    NBC News reporter Vaughn Hillyard asked Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) a question:

    HILLYARD: If Trump is found guilty and wins the nomination, would you stand by him at the convention?

    DeSANTIS: (walks away without answering)

    I know that Betty C. owns the DeSantis bed-shitting beat, but I really just want to look at this a few more times,

  75. 75.

    schrodingers_cat

    OT: My old Twitter friend has finally released his documentary series on Modi’s India. It is in Marathi but has English subtitles. I am thinking of watching it and blogging about it. May be even getting him and another friend who wrote a book on the Bharat Jodo Yatra (Join India Journey) and interviewing them. Would anybody here be interested in this?
    The series covers the protests against the citizenship law, the farmers protest and the Bharat Jodo Yatra.

    Link to the series playlist

    Link  to the trailer

  78. 78.

    trollhattan

    @Suzanne: “I will not address your wokeothetics!”

    Here’s my new year wish: “woke” gets recognized for the idiotic unconcept it is, and becomes a trigger for instant derision. This asshole created an entire campaign around this single unthing.

  79. 79.

    Soprano2

    Because of reproductive rights. Climate change. Any kind of progress, actually, will only happen with Biden/Harris and Democrats in the Senate and House. Republicans don’t want to go forward into the future, they want to go backwards into the past where they feel comfortable. Because of LGBTQ+ rights. Because of the courts, we need at least 4 more years of a Democrat appointing judges to balance everything out, plus you never know there could be a Supreme Court vacancy and we certainly don’t want the Federalist Society putting yet another person on it. Because of everything going on in the world; I shudder to think what TFG would have done with Ukraine and Israel/Gaza. Because Biden/Harris have done a great job, and there’s really not a choice if you want democracy not fascism.

  80. 80.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @StringOnAStick: Would you post that letter here? Sounds like it’s something that a lot of us could put to good use. Myself, I lose patience too quickly when interacting with that target audience.

  81. 81.

    Brit in Chicago

    My reasons?

    First, democratic governance. Imperfect as it is (and don’t get me going on that—or do), more of it will be preserved, perhaps even extended, under Biden than under TFG or any Republican.

    Second, competent government. Biden will choose better people, and they will be people who believe in government, and in its ability to help people as a whole.

    Third, issues. On what I see as the great issues of the day, the large-scale issues with long-term consequences, Democrats are closer to the right answers than Republicans. I see those issues as being, not in any particular order: the distribution of wealth and income; guaranteeing equal opportunities and power among genders, races, and income levels; climate change. (Note I said closer. That seems to me indisputable. How close to perfection, well that’s another matter—but one that is not relevant to the question which way to vote. For that, closer is all you need. So quite whining, put on your big kid pants, and re-elect Biden-Harris and as many D congress-critters and senators as possible.)

  84. 84.

    Chris

    @schrodingers_cat:

    @CaseyL: It has always been an anti-immigrant party too. The draconian anti-immigration laws of the 20s were their creation.

    Sort of.  IIRC, Lincoln was strongly against the Know-Nothings and condemned their attitude towards immigrants.  Sadly, his opinion on this (and multiple other things – read some of his speeches about “labor is the superior to capital,” etc) were overwritten after his death.  Not always right away, but soon enough.

    The problem as near as I can tell is that the U.S. and especially the North had multiple “anti” parties pop up around the same time in the early to mid nineteenth century; anti-slavery (the Republican Party), anti-Catholic/immigrant (the “Native American Party” i.e. the Know-Nothings), anti-Masonic (the imaginatively named Anti-Masonic Party).  The Republican Party was the one that ultimately endured, which is a good thing considering the alternatives.  But it ended up absorbing a shit ton of people from the other parties when they folded, and those people’s views influenced it and started dragging it down.

    (Honestly, the saddest thing about the Republican Party is that if you look at Lincoln’s views, the man is a massive liberal on so many things – in some ways even by today’s standards.  And yet the party started deteriorating pretty fast after he died.  And it’s kept deteriorating ever since).

  85. 85.

    cain

    @StringOnAStick:

    Everything is about punishing the party – the idea I reckon is that they refuse to vote and then they can show “see you should have listened to use, we are the base of your party” – but the morons don’t understand that if the other party takes control – Dems won’t be coming back, it will be GOP the entire way and they’d have ended Democracy and gone off the deep end.

    So instead of fighting climate change, you’ll be working to get back all the rights you’ve earned the past 80 years because you’ve lost it all.

  87. 87.

    JCNZ

    @StringOnAStick: Would you mind forwarding that email to me (jdcullinane (at) xtra.co.nz)? I’m in New Zealand, and constantly having that discussion/argument with people here. A succinct summation of his achievements would be very useful. It’s obvious that Biden is a profoundly decent man, the best president since Lincoln, and the person most likely to again steam-roller trump.

    That, versus “But he’s old”?

  89. 89.

    Suzanne

    @trollhattan:

    Here’s my new year wish: “woke” gets recognized for the idiotic unconcept it is, and becomes a trigger for instant derision. This asshole created an entire campaign around this single unthing.

    Word.
    At the risk of accidentally summoning our resident featherless parrot, you know one thing that I always snicker at when I hear it? When some social conservative makes some Absolutely! Aghast! statement like “Woke is your religion“. I mean, I realize that, to them, religion means kinky sex stuff, but to most of us, religion is supposed to impart an internally consistent set of values for living with harmoniously with others.

  90. 90.

    cain

    @Dangerman: There was some picture of Trump and the president of the Teamsters having lunch and then doing a thumbs up pose. WTF?

    Also, it seems another GOP House member is retiring. It’s gonna get crazy. I assume his replacement is going to be a crazy MAGA type. The chamber of commerce types are gonna be unhappy. :D

  92. 92.

    Chris

    @Brit in Chicago:

    Modern U.S. politics is kind of impressive in that… the question isn’t why would you vote Democrat, so much as why wouldn’t you vote Democrat?  Out of all the issues in politics, however large and small, from the grandest questions of “will we preserve a system of liberal democracy or throw it away for Putinism” to the smallest nitty-gritty questions of “will we fix the potholes on Rhode Island Avenue,” which issue in all of 2024 U.S. politics would be improved by a Republican winning or worsened by a Democrat winning?  Issue, singular.  Name one.

    It’s really very impressive to have found a party that’s wrong about literally everything.  And the Republicans managed.  Oh boy, did they manage.

  93. 93.

    Captain C

    @Suzanne: It’s a question of whether DeSantis cares more about party unity or petty revenge.

    Also, he’s smart enough to know that ‘yes, I will’ a)is the correct answer for his potential GQP primary voters, and b) probably not ideal for the general.

  94. 94.

    ...now I try to be amused

    Biden kicking off his campaign near Philly makes me think of the meme poster of Gritty saying, “Tell Donald, I want him to know it was me.”

  95. 95.

    JCNZ

    @Brit in Chicago: “I see those issues as being, not in any particular order: the distribution of wealth and income; guaranteeing equal opportunities and power among genders, races, and income levels; climate change.”

    Brilliant.

  96. 96.

    mrmoshpotato

    Why are you voting for Biden-Harris?

    Because Biden-Harris is the best administration of my lifetime (even without Clinton’s budget surplus).

    And Dump is a fascistic Soviet shitpile mobster conmanbaby who should throw himself and his entire god-damned family into the Sun.

    ETA – Oh!  And his entire maladministration of crooks.  The Sun’s big enough for all of them.

  98. 98.

    JaneE

    Why Biden-Harris?  Because I want a government that believes in representative democracy.  And tries to do the right thing to benefit the most people not the fewest at least part of the time.  If I were talking to Republicans, I would throw in a line about respecting others the way I want to be respected, e.g. Luke 6:31, just because they don’t.

  99. 99.

    Captain C

    @Suzanne: I think to conservatives, “woke” means a combination of “treating PoC (ETA and all women) like people deserving of equal/fair treatment rather than servants at best” and “anything I don’t like.”

  100. 100.

    Hob

    @Alison Rose: This thing some Dems do of saying “Biden hasn’t done enough on Issue X so I won’t vote for him even though TIFG would be 10000x worse on Issue X” will never cease to baffle me

    Following up on my earlier comment: from personal experience as a past young idiot with a similar point of view, I can say that there are a couple of ways to rationalize that. One is to simply deny that the other guy would really be that much worse, because you can imagine various scenarios where the harm could be at least partly mitigated (especially if you’re inclined to be a contrarian and distrust any very widely held opinion, so if everyone around you is like “Trump is a dangerous fascist”, that must be an exaggeration). Another is to focus on the I’m-sending-a-message thing and claim you’re really helping to make the Democrats better, based on an idea that if a politician or a party loses some votes they will automatically move closer to the correct position (because of course they’ll totally know which, out of all the groups of people who didn’t vote for them, is the important and correct one)… which course that assumes there’s plenty of time to let such a thing happen, but that goes back to the previous “it probably won’t be an absolute disaster” idea.

    I mean, those are both very stupid ways to think, but I can confirm that they are thought processes a person can sincerely have, especially if they’re getting reinforcement by reading/listening to a lot of other people who talk that way.

  103. 103.

    Jeffro

    @Alison Rose: exactly!

    ”Why am I voting for Biden/Harris 2024?  Well because many other good reasons, I’d like my daily anxiety level to get back to where it was, pre-2015.  Oh and because fuck fascism too.”

  104. 104.

    rikyrah

    Why am I voting for Biden/Harris?

     

    Because, I am alive. Biden/Harris got the Vaccine on practically every other corner in America. And, they didn’t care if you were in a Blue or Red State when they did it.

     

    And, the judges.

    Everything else they’ve accomplished is gravy for me.

  105. 105.

    zhena gogolia

    I love what I’ve read of this thread. I have to go to an appointment now but will read the whole thing later.

    More of this please! Make it a weekly or even a daily feature.

  107. 107.

    Paul in KY

    @StringOnAStick: You are ever so much more patient than I. I would have just yelled “If you don’t vote for Biden, you get fuckin Donald Trump, you stupid, stupid woman!!!!!!!!!!”

  109. 109.

    Suzanne

    @Captain C:

    It’s a question of whether DeSantis cares more about party unity or petty revenge. 

    Man, if he had even a shred of character or integrity, I might empathize with his moral dilemma.

    But since he doesn’t, and since I am not a nice person, Imma lie back, throw my legs in the air, and enjoy watching him fail miserably.

  110. 110.

    Alison Rose

    @Hob: Well, in the present situation, the first one is untenable unless the person has been in a fucking coma since 2016. We know for a fact he’s “that bad” and would actually only be worse a second time around. Anyone, whatever age they are, still saying he wouldn’t be that bad has proven themselves too stupid for their opinions to matter.

    And “sending a message” by condemning other people to living under fascism doesn’t really make one much better than the fascists. I’d bet a lot of people saying shit like this wouldn’t be at nearly as much existential risk as some others, so it also betrays abject narcissism and blatant self-centeredness.

  111. 111.

    Brit in Chicago

    @Chris: “It’s really very impressive to have found a party that’s wrong about literally everything.  And the Republicans managed.  Oh boy, did they manage.”

    And yet people vote for them in large numbers. True, some of them are badly educated (or mis-educated, which is a little different) or badly informed, but it still alarms me and baffles me.

  112. 112.

    Brit in Chicago

    @JCNZ: Thanks!

    ETA: I’ve spent time thinking about how I would explain the big issues in this country to an outsider (as I used to be), and that’s what I came up with. Of course the ones I list cover a lot that is not specifically mentioned (e.g. I take access to abortion to be included). But there maybe things I left out that don’t fit under those headings and should be mentioned. (Guns?)

  113. 113.

    trollhattan

    Heartland values on display.

    Police in Iowa were called to Perry High School and Middle School at about 07:40 (13:40 GMT) this morning to reports of an active shooter
    Dallas County Sheriff Adam Infante said officers were on the scene of the shooting within seven minutes
    Police found multiple gunshot victims at the school, but are not yet able to say how many victims there are
    We don’t know if anyone has been killed, or the extent of any injuries as yet
    The shooter has been identified, Infante did tell reporters in his brief update – but he did not share a name or any other details
    He also said the fact the school had not yet started meant there were fewer victims than there could have been

    Latest update has shooter deceased.

    “We never thought it could happen here” will get a big workout.

  114. 114.

    CaseyL

    @Hob: ​

    One is to simply deny that the other guy would really be that much worse, because you can imagine various scenarios where the harm could be at least partly mitigated (especially if you’re inclined to be a contrarian and distrust any very widely held opinion, so if everyone around you is like “Trump is a dangerous fascist”, that must be an exaggeration).

    Are they still saying this?? Were they in a coma or on another planet for the past 7 years??

  116. 116.

    Captain C

    @Alison Rose:

    And “sending a message” by condemning other people to living under fascism doesn’t really make one much better than the fascists.

    “I stood aside so you could get fucked over, now support my revolution (with your life, not mine) because you can totally trust me” is such a convincing revolutionary message, isn’t it?

    I’d bet a lot of people saying shit like this wouldn’t be at nearly as much existential risk as some others, so it also betrays abject narcissism and blatant self-centeredness.

    I think this is exactly right.  It includes, but is not limited to, trust funded cosplay revolutionaries who know they always have the option of crawling back to their privilege.

  118. 118.

    Captain C

    @Suzanne:

    “You’re just going to stand there and laugh?  Aren’t you going to help me?!”

    “After all the awful things you’ve done with your power, hell no!  Struggle more, meatball man!”

  120. 120.

    Another Scott

    @StringOnAStick: Nice.

    There’s a pithy meme somewhere that goes something like:

    “You’re voting for someone to do a job; you’re not choosing a fiancé.”

    Something to snap her out of her way of thinking might be helpful.

    Good luck!

    Why am I voting for Biden-Harris and all the rest of the Democrats?  Because at this point in time they’re the best people for the jobs.  (And other things.  ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  123. 123.

    RaflW

    Good ad! Takes the threats to democracy seriously, but manages to be optimistic about our chances and our future.

  124. 124.

    Chris

    @Paul in KY:

    Yeah.  There are a lot of historical figures for whom it’s an open question, but Lincoln is one of those about whom there’s no doubt at all.

  125. 125.

    Brit in Chicago

    @Hob: “to focus on the I’m-sending-a-message thing and claim you’re really helping to make the Democrats better”  —want to send a message? Buy a postcard. But vote Democratic.

  126. 126.

    Hungry Joe

    “Because I’m not an idiot” does seem to be the most to-the-point response.

    Biden has fallen well short of what I want a President to be/do … and he’s still the best since FDR. Probably in the Top Five. The only person who would be and do everything I want is me, and I’m currently polling at around .00000003 percent. (Margin of error +/- .0000000002.)

    My horseshoe Ohio in-laws voted for Obama in ‘08, but since “He turned out to be a war criminal” they went for lord-knows-who in ‘12, Jill Stein in ‘16, and lord-knows-who again in ‘20. They were all in for Tulsi Gabbard for a while, and are now on the RFK Jr. bandwhatever. When we visit Ohio we tell them that if they bring up politics we will walk out of the room. It works.

  128. 128.

    Paul in KY

    @Captain C: “Now you know why you should have helped me create the Socialist Workers Paradise.” (said while in back of truck and on way to Concentration Camp)

  129. 129.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Another Scott:

    “You’re voting for someone to do a job; you’re not choosing a fiancé.”

    I have a sneaking suspicion that some Trump voters would never hire him to do a job that really mattered to them, like fix their house.

  130. 130.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Another Scott:

    There’s a pithy meme somewhere that goes something like:

    “You’re voting for someone to do a job; you’re not choosing a fiancé.”

    Or, to use 2016 framing, “You’re choosing someone, who you mostly likely will never meet, to do a job. Hillary isn’t moving in with all of us!”

  131. 131.

    coin operated

    Biden – Harris…because I have 3 daughters and I want them to have full body autonomy in all 50 states.

  132. 132.

    Captain C

    @Paul in KY: And any actual plan they come up with makes the Underpants Gnomes business plan sound credible and detailed.

    a) Everyone thinks like me and acts like I want them to.

    b) The laws of physics and the entirety of human nature changes to what I think they should be.

    c) -y) ?????

    z) I profit!!!!  Er, Revolution and Paradise!!!!

  137. 137.

    bjacques

    @schrodingers_cat: The trailers look very interesting and I might end up watching this at work since I have a somewhat clerical job.

    EDIT: I watched Prof Snyder’s lecture series the same way.

  141. 141.

    Hob

    @Alison Rose: I mean I did say that those are both very stupid ways of thinking. I wasn’t AT ALL trying to justify them, just laying out two thought processes that long ago used to seem plausible to me on a very superficial level, as a response to “this will never cease to baffle me.” To me at least, a very stupid thought process is a little less baffling than a thought process that can’t be imagined at all. If I misunderstood your point and my comments aren’t relevant, so be it, this is just for whatever it’s worth.

    I agree that the stakes and distinctions are more obvious since 2016 than before, but I don’t agree that ignoring them requires actually being in a fucking coma. Again based on my own experience, I’d say it’s possible to have the equivalent of being in a fucking coma like so: be an idealistic but immature person who’s formed their views by consuming a steady diet of one specific style of radical writer; be in an environment where there’s feedback reinforcement for that; decide to trust those people’s framing of current events over everyone else’s, even if or especially if it seems counter-intuitive. That’s a disastrous thing to do, but it really is possible to end up doing it by starting with what one thinks are good intentions. In that mode, the answer to “but look at this horrible thing Republicans did” is always “well here’s a horrible thing Democrats did, regardless of whether it’s really worse, it’s a thing mainstream people aren’t talking about enough and that means their opinions are suspect.” Yes of course that’s immature and self-centered, but a lot of people are immature and self-centered, especially when they’re young, so… “infuriating” yes, “baffling” no, IMO.

    I’m also a little skeptical of most “this time people have no excuse, unlike past times when maybe it was understandable” arguments. It’s true that people in the ’90s did not have a current Trump figure to inspire fear and the Bushes seemed relatively mushy. But people who were young self-styled radicals in the ’90s had grown up in the Reagan years. The older radicals they were listening to had spent those years explaining how Reagan Republicans were dangerous Bircherites who were likely to either put us in concentration camps or blow up the world. A non-hypothetical disaster, AIDS, had clearly been made worse by Reagan and the religious right. And (at least to young radicals in the ’90s, I know this wasn’t a mainstream Democratic opinion) the First Gulf War was a frightening catastrophe that showed Bush Sr. to be an even bigger warmonger than Reagan. And we’d seen the rise of Congressional Republicans like Gingrich and Chenoweth who made it pretty clear that the party’s agenda was purely corruption and destruction. And even with all that, it was easy for an unfortunate number of people—even if they were reading the news obsessively, and even if they were at personal risk from a far-right takeover—to conclude that in 2000 the consequences of letting another Republican into office might be tolerable for some eventual greater good. It wasn’t the same as 2016 but I don’t think it was quite such a completely different world as you’re suggesting.

    I keep harping on my own personal experience of that time just because that’s the one case where I know for sure it was possible for someone in that mindset to grow out of it, with help. I was too stupid for my opinion to be of any value, but not too stupid for it to be worth responding to, in the sense that other people still made the effort to push back and teach me and eventually succeeded. If that had gone differently, I might have ended up in the Matt Taibbi/Glenn Greenwald brigade and might be putting a lot of effort into encouraging other people to be stupider. That doesn’t mean my friends had an obligation to engage with me—for all they knew, I could’ve really been impervious and unreachable—but I’m still glad they did.

  144. 144.

    RaflW

    @cain: The problem I have with “they refuse to vote and then they can show ‘see you should have listened to use, we are the base of your party'” is that, as I see it, the moment a major election passes by without voting, they are no longer the base.

    They’re just self-benched unaffiliateds. They can get right back in the game! They’re welcome! But they by definition left the base when they abstained.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @Baud: In June, after he won reelection, Erdogan put in a new economic team. Since then Finance Minister Selim Simchek and Central Bank head Hafiz Gaye Erkom have presided over seven months of steep rate increases. The last one in December was 2.5%, and brought the Central Bank’s lending rate to 42.5%!

    So far the Turkish economy seems to have weathered the shock and is still growing. Observers expect the bank to start lowering interest rates next year.

  146. 146.

    StringOnAStick

    @wjca: Even less funny is that Orban’s party has engineered it so that they can never lose another election.  They started with transforming the courts into their rubber stamp; sound familiar?

  147. 147.

    Hob

    @RaflW: ​
    I wouldn’t say that parties treat non-voting groups as totally irrelevant. Every well-run campaign in our traditionally low-voter-turnout country includes some amount of thinking about whether X/Y/Z might motivate people to vote for us who didn’t vote before; it’s never only about playing to a reliable base. It’s just that that’s inherently hard to figure out, except in terms of fairly broad demographics, or single issues that have an obvious partisan divide. If a dropped-out voter’s rationale was “I’m not voting this time because Biden is bad on immigration / not aggressive enough toward Republicans / too supportive of Israel / etc.”, I think the problem is less that they’re not “the base” and more that there’s no mechanism for the specific message they’re sending to be received and distinguished from any of the other possible messages.

  148. 148.

    Kristine

    @Chris:

    Rotten eggs and the safety of mankind.

    One of my desert island movies.

    (Also, Biden/Harris b/c Democracy and besides they’re been doing one hell of a good job)

  149. 149.

    Redshift

    Why are you voting for Biden-Harris?

    Like a lot of Democrats, I tend to fall in love and back candidates who inspire me and have great goals. But this administration has put me firmly on Team Getting Shit Done. I guess I’m the future I’ll weigh what a candidate probably can do as much as what they want to do.

  150. 150.

    Bill Arnold

    @Captain C:
    Bold mine:

    Asked what “woke” means more generally, [Desantis’ General Counsel Ryan] Newman said “it would be the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.”

  152. 152.

    Chris

    @Hob:

    be an idealistic but immature person who’s formed their views by consuming a steady diet of one specific style of radical writer

    One of the nice things about having been a precocious and insufferable kid with an early interest in things like this is that I worked through most of my stupidity when I was still a teenager.  I got my right-wing phase and my libertarian phase out of my system before I even had a chance to vote.  To the extent that I still had any of that “vote the person not the party!” Aaron Sorkin crap left in me in 2008, watching the actual reality of the McCain/Obama campaign cured me of it pretty hard.

  153. 153.

    AnneWith

    Late to the thread, but Biden-Harris has my vote in 2024 because I am neither a moron  nor a fascist.

  154. 154.

    lowtechcyclist

    Why are you voting for Biden-Harris?

    If someone asked me that in meatspace, I’d ask, “how much time do you got?”  He’s simply been the best President of my lifetime, and if anything happens to him, Harris is eminently qualified to take over.  Look what he’s done on everything from climate change to labor rights.  And he’ll do everything for reproductive rights that he possibly can.  Oh, and incidentally, he’s presided over an amazing economy, with wages for ordinary workers going up, up, up.  And he’s not throwing anyone under the bus – he’s fighting for the rights of African-Americans and other racial and ethnic minorities, and for the rights of gay and trans persons, and other persons of nonstandard gender or orientation.

    And most important, if he wins, America will still be a democracy. If the other guy wins, we may have to take to the streets to fight for it, with no guarantee of success.

  155. 155.

    StringOnAStick

    @Chief Oshkosh: It has a lot of links, so it will go inro moderation here.  I just got a new PC and it doesn’t think I own Word anymore, but my husband will fix that when he gets home today and I will send it to Tamara, maybe she can post it.

  158. 158.

    lowtechcyclist

    @rikyrah:

    We so missed out with the taco trucks.

    I know, I’m feeling like having a quesadilla right about now. Where’s my motherfucking taco truck, dammit?!  It’s supposed to be right [points] there!!

  159. 159.

    Captain C

    @Bill Arnold: Yeah, that was not only a serious own goal, but the people who scored it on themselves probably celebrated their own (non-)wisdom and wit.

  163. 163.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    Christ, I remember when that law was first proposed like a decade ago.  They downgraded it to a “jail the gays for life law” under intense international pressure.  Guess that’s over with.

  164. 164.

    StringOnAStick

    @StringOnAStick: I just sent that email to you, and to Tamara.   Some of the topics covered might seem a bit out of date (like the potential Rail workers strike that hard lefties called a Biden sellout) but they were topics we argued about so I had to address them.

    I hereby give Tamara full permission to use anything she wants in here and to rewrite it as she sees fit.

  165. 165.

    StringOnAStick

    @Hob: It’s in Tamara’s hands but you can send me an email at kitcoh at the gmail dot com thing, and I’ll forward it to you too.  Anyone else here who would like it immediately can do the same, just let me know what you want in your email.

  166. 166.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Bill Arnold:

    That’s a good, concise definition of ‘woke,’ one that I’m happy to stand behind, and likewise stand behind the need for people to BE more ‘woke.’

  167. 167.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Bill Arnold: This is why they hate the 1619 Project and Ibram X Kendi etc., so much.  The last decade or so has featured more focus on systemic isms/phobias and how to address them.  More and more people (especially white people who had previously paid no attention) started to take these issues seriously and they started to be centered in Liberal/Progressive/Dem policies and that scares the shit out of Conservatives.

  169. 169.

    laura

    I’m honored to vote to reelect this competent, steady, forward looking Administration and their party members in the House and Senate (except Menendez, Manchin and Sinema). I hope to live long enough to see the fruits of a united executive and legislature. I am thrilled with the excellence of judicial appointments and would like more of that. Like fellow Sacramentan Trollhattan, I wish for even MOAR hops in my IPA. I’m an old school Democrat and Union girl to my very core and I know and trust that we can all do better when we all contribute our gifts in our many ways to improve the lives of others. And personally, the Biden Harris administration is continuing to save me over 25 large each year in healthcare premiums via the IRA’s supplemental healthcare subsidy and that subsidy will remain law until after I age into my earned benefit of Medicare.

  170. 170.

    wjca

    @Brit in Chicago: So quite whining, put on your big kid pants, and re-elect Biden-Harris and as many D congress-critters and senators as possible.

    And, if you have somehow failed to notice the blatantly obvious, remember the state legislators, too.

  171. 171.

    Brit in Chicago

    @Geminid: “…brought the Central Bank’s lending rate to 42.5%!”

    Given the rate of inflation, the real rate of interest (i.e. allowing for inflation) is still massively negative, so it’s not really going to do much to get inflation down.

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