So yesterday Trump filed his appeal with the Supreme Court at the last possible moment. Just now, the Supreme Court gave Jack Smith ONE WEEK (until 2/20 at 4 pm) to respond to Trump’s request to stay the immunity ruling.
If the Supreme Court grants the stay, then that’s a HUGE win for Trump because the trial in D.C won’t start up again until or unless the Supreme eventually rules against Trump. Could it be a temporary stay? Even if it’s temporary every day / week / month that Trump can stall is not good for this country.
Is it possible that SCOTUS could rule quickly? Theoretically, yes. I don’t know yet what the legal eagles would have to say about the likelihood of that.
BREAKING: Chief Justice Roberts gives Jack Smith until Tuesday 2/20 at 4 pm to respond to Trump’s call to stay the immunity ruling that would restart his D.C. trial.
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) February 13, 2024
It’s certainly possible. But as someone who tracks literally every one of them, most emergency applications to #SCOTUS are resolved within a few days of the briefing being complete—especially when, as is true here, there is an operable lower-court stay and delay favors one party.
— Steve Vladeck (@steve_vladeck) February 13, 2024
What else is happening this morning?
Update: oh dear. Sigh. This isn’t good.
I still really want someone to write a generational biography of the GOP men — people like Cruz, Lee, Rubio — who HAD to have been attracted to the Republican party by Ronald Reagan, who just voted to give Ukraine to Russia. pic.twitter.com/JruY9W19N9
— emptywheel (@emptywheel) February 13, 2024
Open thread.
Miss Bianca
You know, it’s just getting to the point where I want to see cage matches. Roberts vs. Smith. Because I have no doubt that justice would prevail in *that* contest.
LifeInTheBonusRound
What’s up with Merkley??
Jackie
Positive hoping Justice Roberts only allowing Jack Smith a week is a good omen!🤞🏻🤞🏻
Plus, we know Smith isn’t going to wait until the last moment to respond!😁
Matt McIrvin
For pro-Russia conservatives, the problem with the Soviet Union was that they were Godless Communists. All a Russian leader had to do was make some positive noises about Christianity, and maybe not be officially anti-capitalist (but I really think the God part is more important), and they were completely on board. I don’t think there’s any further explaining that has to be done.
rikyrah
How many votes are needed to grant a stay?
sab
I think it was the obvious corruption in the Reagan administration that attracted those guys to the Republican Party.
Jackie
Lindsey Graham also voted NO – using TIFG’s “rational” of making the money a LOAN. The toadiest of toadies 😡
Baud
@rikyrah:
5
ETA: only four to take it up. So they get four, they’ll find a 5th vote.
Cliosfanboy
WTF with Bernie and his fellow Senator from Vermont??
Baud
@Cliosfanboy:
Bernie is about Israel. I assume the other Ds are too.
Dagaetch
@Cliosfanboy: they don’t want any money going to Israel.
lowtechcyclist
Senate passes Ukraine funding in predawn vote | The Hill
rikyrah
@Matt McIrvin:
It’s the White Supremacy, Dear.
They are on board because of Putin’s White Supremacy.
Kelly
@Cliosfanboy:
@Baud:
Merkley’s statement closes with ” I do not support the provision of offensive weapons that have been used in Gaza with calamitous effects on civilians.”
https://www.merkley.senate.gov/merkley-we-must-not-abandon-ukraine/
lowtechcyclist
@Matt McIrvin:
And best of all from their perspective, it was their God, the one who is anti-LGBTQ, anti-abortion, etc.
Geminid
@Kelly: This issue could also also affect votes- or in this case, signatures- on a prospective House discharge petition for the aid package. Some Democrats will not sign on, so the petition might require more than a few Republicans to reach a majority.
Frankensteinbeck
The vote passed. Everything else is posturing.
As for SCOTUS, their request for a reply from Smith sounds somewhere between ‘standard’ and ‘necessary’ to this layman. I’d bet he won’t take long. He probably has the answer ready.
Doug R
As a former and current resident of Calgary once again I can say we’re SORRY we “gave” you Raphael Theodore Cruz, BUT he’s yours now and we’re not taking him back.
Quite an accomplishment to be a traitor to more than one country.
kindness
I didn’t realize that both of Vermont’s Senators voted no. If I was a Vermonter, I’d be embarrassed.
schrodingers_cat
I will leave this level of legal navel gazing to the experts as I am not a lawyer. The orange goose, it is cooked.
BTW did any BJers watch Mr. Both-Sides-Do-It comedian’s show?
Baud
@Geminid: Agreed.
@Frankensteinbeck: Agreed.
Snarki, child of Loki
If *I* were writing Smith’s reply to the USSC for Trump’s immunity defense, I’d put a *long* list of people I’d have shot/drone-struck if total Prez immunity is affirmed.
And there would be 6 USSC justices at the top.
Okay, maybe just after Trump.
Reason number 2435847 why I don’t have that job.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Naturally, both Senators from MO were no votes. Ugh. My city really needs to get its act together. A strong St. Louis is the only hope of stopping the deepening red of this state. KC is doing fine. St. Louis is really struggling.
Barbara
@schrodingers_cat: I think someone posted last night to the effect that it was a waste of time. Wishful thinking is an easy thing to fall into, we all do it, but when you keep doing it in the face of overwhelming experience that your wishes are unreasonable, in his case, that if one side bends a little so will the other, well, you have a problem. I don’t plan on making John Stewart’s problem my problem anytime soon.
Jackie
@kindness: Their votes were a protest against Israel’s treatment of Gazi. Their votes obviously weren’t needed to pass the bill.
Hildebrand
@schrodingers_cat: There are certain projects that Stewart supports that are good – but, in sum, his High Broderism is exceptionally tiring.
Aziz, light!
Merkley is either sincere or is appeasing the many Israel-hating lefties here in Oregon. Doesn’t matter which. I agree with him in principle, but not at Ukraine’s expense, which needs our unequivocal support.
Edmund dantes
A lot of those GOP senators were on that July 4th trip to Moscow. I’m sure all of them were on their best behavior.
zhena gogolia
@Aziz, light!: That’s the bottom line.
schrodingers_cat
@Hildebrand: He is also a border vaccine skeptic and pushes the lab leak theory. All in all, a broflake.
schrodingers_cat
@Barbara: I am seeing a lot of pushback against JS on Twitter.
Geminid
@Baud: I think that if there is a discharge petition, the requisite members will sign it and vote yes on the underlying bill. The Democratic dissenters could even provide some political cover for Republican hawks.
Hildebrand
@schrodingers_cat: We certainly didn’t need him back on the show – because it just pumps his above-it-all condescension back into the limelight.
Frankensteinbeck
@schrodingers_cat:
The Hell? Seriously? The ‘bioweapon’ part, which is insanity, or just ‘they were studying it in the lab and it got out’ which is merely sure, whatever you want to believe, whatever. And vaccine skepticism? I dislike Stewart after his disgraceful Obama interview, but this is shocking to hear.
Geminid
@Hildebrand: Jon Stewart’s as smug as a bug in a rug.
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck: He was tending towards vaccine skeptisim during a Colbert interview IIRC. I was shocked
*borderline skeptic is what I meant to write in my original comment which I can no longer edit.
glc
Boeing
Lara Trump and the Temple of Doom
Soprano2
I see my two more worthless than shit senators voted against Ukraine aid. Of course, they both have their lips firmly attached to TFG’s ass, so that’s not a surprise.
Alison Rose
Re: Jon Stewart — I just looked it up because I couldn’t recall for sure, and I was surprised to see that he’d taken over hosting TDS in January 1999. For some reason, I’d thought it was like right before 9/11 or thereabouts. But like…that sort of explains some things, because in January 1999, his “we must skewer both sides” stance made a little more sense. The GOP sucked back then too, of course, but compared to today, their crap seems almost quaint now. Plus, the Democrats did suck in a lot of ways. The Democratic Party as a whole, as well as Democratic voters overall, were more conservative on a lot of social issues (DOMA, DADT, etc), all the “tough on crime” shit that was way over the top, and so on. Making a point of critiquing both parties wasn’t as maddening as it is now, when the Dems, while still not perfect, are exponentially better than they were in the 90s and early 00s, and the GOP is a million lightyears worse and getting more so all the time. Stewart acts like he went to sleep the day after he quit the show and only woke up last week, and his only news source since awakening has been OAN.
Soprano2
@Matt McIrvin: Well, they hate Ukraine because their president wouldn’t open an investigation into Joe Biden like TFG asked him to. I think that’s another factor in their attitude.
schrodingers_cat
@Alison Rose: He was pretty bad during the Obama administration as well.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: Not yet, I recorded it. I heard he made fun of the ages of both candidates. Unfortunately, I think we’re stuck with that – Colbert loves Biden, but he does it too. Honestly, I miss Trevor Noah. He had TFG’s number from the beginning. That segment he did in 2016 comparing African dictators to TFG *shudder* it was scary it was so prescient. Noah has seen them up close, though.
Baud
@Soprano2:
Not exactly innovative comedy.
rikyrah
@Geminid:
Why would some Democrats not sign on?
Betty Cracker
@glc: Good. Hopefully a worthless nepotism hire will keep the RNC work product quality at its current abysmal levels, which is good for Democrats. Also, this is interesting:
Huh. I had to look that up because I was unaware of that rule and wondered if McDaniel had a male co-chair. She does, Drew McKissick, who was apparently elected over Trump’s choice for chair this time around, election-denier Michael Whatley.
Soprano2
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Andrew Bailey had an op-ed in the local paper this week where he claimed that since he got rid of Kim Gardner, all the crime problems in St. Louis are solved! I assume this is not true.
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
Didn’t watch it, but wasn’t surprised. Just resumed his bullshyt schtick from 2016
Baud
@rikyrah:
Israel.
Alison Rose
@schrodingers_cat: Certainly, but again, I think that was a product of his inability or unwillingness to recognize that things had changed from a decade prior.
Matt McIrvin
…I just learned that in certain fora, if you mock the right-wing freakouts over Taylor Swift, you get jumped by a bunch of leftists condemning the shitlibs for caping for a high-carbon-footprint zillionaire?
Discourse is fun!
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: This rule goes way back, actually. When I was a law clerk, we decided a lawsuit challenging this rule brought by a very aggrieved male party member in Maryland. The bottom line was that party organizations are private and courts won’t write their internal operating rules.
Soprano2
@Baud: Yeah, I wish they could figure out something more original than that, but it seems to me generally most comedians go for the easy laugh. I will say Biden makes it tough because unlike TFG he doesn’t give them much material.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I welcome their hatred.
ETA: to reiterate, Taylor Swift is only interesting to me because of the right wing freakout. I just don’t care that much about celebrities.
Soprano2
@Matt McIrvin: I’ve learned that you can’t win, there’s always someone waiting to scold you for something, so you might as well enjoy their scorn. LOL
schrodingers_cat
@Alison Rose: Agreed, broflake is stuck in a time warp.
Bill Arnold
@lowtechcyclist:
The leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, bloodthirsty Patriarch Kirill, leads a “church” that performs rituals like this:
Blessing Bombs, Putin’s Altar Boy, and Twisting Russian Orthodoxy to Sanctify Nuclear War – Why the Russian Orthodox Church is blessing nuclear weapons in a once-atheistic society (Cathleen Falsani, July 6, 2022)
Evil.
schrodingers_cat
@Matt McIrvin: Brogressive poutrage is only second to MAGA poutrage.
BTW I would like to remind everyone that Biden is senile ha ha memes were first started by brogressives in the 2020 cycle around 4 years ago when they were sure that BS would win the nomination with a plurality of votes and how we would have to bend the knee to the Maple Syrup Messiah.
Betty Cracker
@Barbara: Do you happen to know how it came to be? If not, no worries — I can do my own research. I’m curious because it’s so out of character for the GOP to proactively promote equality!
Dman
@Aziz, light!:
I don’t understand the save these humans, but not those humans because Israel?
Sorry for my ignorance
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
IIRC, there’s a similar rule for delegates to the Republican National Convention.
Soprano2
The lucky thing about Stewart on the Daily Show is that it’s only one day a week; I think Jordan Klepper is the host the rest of the week. I love him! Those videos where he interviews TFG supporters are amazing!
sab
@schrodingers_cat: I didn’t watch it but husband did and he is still fuming. Lots of age jokes.
Baud
@Dman:
Here it made no difference. It was a free protest vote.
More generally, there are a lot of people who become single issue zealots and justify it by claiming that the blame belongs to politicians that don’t cave on their issue.
Unfortunately, it sometimes happens to issues less serious than Gaza too.
citizen dave
I ditched cable several years ago, so my comedy central viewing is on youtube. Seems to me like late night tv/talk shows/whatever are circling the drain. That said, a good show is viable with other outlets. I watched several of the Daily Show correspondents do their hosting over the last year, and usually thought, “Damn, they are really good, they should have the hosting gig”. Especially Desi Lydic and Roy Woods Jr. Alas, Stewart is back. He is an ass
Agree with Soprano2, Jordan Klepper is outstanding as well. His MAGA field segments are mostly what I watch of TDS on youtube.
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: There’s a part of me that envies the certainty of fanatics. It would be way easier to think that way. There would be a right answer to everything and you could just not give a shit about the consequences, and to go bed always knowing you held the moral high ground.
Dangerman
The USSC will flush this turd (I mean the appeal, not Trump, but, whatever). I’m thinking double flush, just to be sure.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Doesn’t that describe the entire right wing in America?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Matt McIrvin: Horseshoe, dude…
ETA: Killjoys – they won’t allow anyone to have any fun. How dare you make a joke! How dare you enjoy something!
CliosFanboy
@Dagaetch:
OK, makes sense. I disagree but I understand
Matt McIrvin
@schrodingers_cat: I remember seeing a meme posted, like, the day after Election Day 2016, with photoshopped parodies of the then-current DVD covers for the original Star Wars trilogy:
2008: A New Hope (Barack Obama’s face)
2016: The Empire Strikes Back (Trump’s face)
2020: Return of the Jedi (Bernie Sanders’ face)
cain
@lowtechcyclist: Jeff Merkeley is a true humanist and he’s consistent. He was the only senator I know who was incensed about the separation of children from their parents at our border. He showed up at the border facility. He demanded answers. He wept. It’s who he is.
He’s doing the same thing for Gaza. He cannot support anything that propagates human suffering.
taumaturgorgo
@Matt McIrvin: What a good example of folks propagandize since childhood by the Catholic Church and how in adulthood this distortion persist. As a famous character once said, “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you in trouble. It’s what you know for sure, that ain’t so.”
Ihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Godless_Communism
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Soprano2: Of course it isn’t true. However, Kim Gartner was a disaster. She absolutely decimated the office (with most of the attorneys quitting) and prosecutions ground to a halt. It wasn’t just a problem with the guilty and innocent not getting trial dates, it was a problem with a lack of follow up and enforcement for people who were violating the terms of their home confinement. He may be annoying, but he has performed much better in office. We DO need an effective attorney general’s office. Gartner was so bad that I honestly will never look at her supporters the same way again. While it is 100% true that St. Louis has some racist cops and needs reform, it isn’t an improvement when more people (black and white) are dying and suffering at the hands of crooks. We need to stop cops AND crooks from killing and harming innocent people.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
A little cringy, but I can’t say that’s offensive.
Lyrebird
From your lips to the FSM’s ears!!!
I just called my very middle of the road Dem Rep and said I am in favor.
Even if Vance and others can sit there and try to abet dictators and turn away money for USA military-industrial manufacturers, sounds like some of the OH Congresspeeps are more able to hear their own constituents.
Here’s hoping.
Alison Rose
@cain: Okay, but…preventing (or at least aiming to prevent) aid from getting to Ukraine is very much propagating human suffering.
CliosFanboy
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
F’ing cardinals fans…..
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: What would you call tweeting guillotine imagery at the supporters of other candidates? Because that happened a lot in 2020 at around this time.
Baud
@cain:
I’m glad his vote wasn’t needed. I try to be understanding when centrists in swing districts engage in protest voting when it doesn’t matter, so I give the same consideration to everyone.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Cringey and offensive.
UncleEbeneezer
@rikyrah: This! It’s the KIND of Christianity that Russia pushes ( the extremely LGBTQ-phobic, Russian Orthodox version, not the Rev. Barber/MLK version) that Republicans can (and will always) support. What good is Christianity (to them) if it doesn’t subjugate Women and LGBTQ People?
The Thin Black Duke
@Soprano2: I wish Roy Jones, Jr. came back instead of Stewart. I think Jon is still chasing that Quixotic delusion of “bipartisanship” that died about the same time as Blockbuster Video. It’s easy to take the “high road” about politics when you’re a rich white man with a golden lifeboat.
cain
@Bill Arnold: I remember when the Pope went over there to say hello and got a cold reception – hmm.. maybe that was Greek orthodox? I can’t remember. The other orthodox churches don’t like the Pope.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@CliosFanboy:
Oh no, you didn’t! I’m one of those Cardinals fans. Win or lose, they are the best.
dirge
Disagree. Biden regularly serves up great material, but most of it only works if you’re willing to laugh with him, not at him. Seth Meyers and Stephen Colbert have mostly figured it out. Others not so much.
TBone
@Aziz, light!: every time I read ‘Merkley’ here today, my brain said “Malarkey” for some reason.
Kay
@Baud:
It’s right up there in laffs with pronoun jokes. Boring. He was always a both sider, though. It’s the stupid ultra sophisticate thing where he has to sigh and bemoan the fact that he is the only decent person in the world. I feel like it’s dated though – it’s 2010-ish. All middle aged comics need to come up with new material – it’s all stale and boring.
cain
@Alison Rose: He’s not going to let Ukraine suffer either. He would have absolutely worked with Schumer before casting his vote. Clearly, there was enough support for the bill to pass and so he was able to vote his conscience. But otherwise, supporting Ukraine is a pillar of being a Democrat and right now Russia is a danger to everyone and has priority over an intractable regional war that will likely continue for years to come.
Baud
@Baud:
That said, a vote is a vote, and any politician can be held accountable to their voters for their choice about how to vote. I’m just not necessarily going to throw someone under the bus if they didn’t actually derail anything.
cmorenc
Why are Merkely (D-OR) and the two Vt Senators (Welch -D, Sanders -I) voting *against* the Ukraine aid package? When all the R signers are Jan 6-insurrection-friendly and/or Russian stooge?s (e.g. Johnson R-Wi). Does it have anything to do with taking ju-jitsu advantage of some of the Senate’s perverse procedural rules, or else are these D-caucus members simply being perverse because of some collateral element in the bill they disapprove of?
cain
@Baud: Yeah, I’m glad that he was able to vote his conscience.
UncleEbeneezer
@Alison Rose: But he continued with that bullshit well into the W administration then right through the Obama administration. No Progressive should have been pulling the BothSides bullshit, by either of those points. Hell even my idiotic, Nader-voting self came to the full realization that no, Both Sides DON’T, well before the end of W’s first term. Things like Iraq, the US Attorneys scandal and Terri Schiavo really was all anyone needed to see the light-years of difference between the two major parties.
TBone
@Matt McIrvin: 😆🤮🤣
Baud
@Kay:
I haven’t kept up with what he’s been doing over the last decade, so I had some hope he’d be better by now, particularly since the people around him all seem to be pretty good.
Miss Bianca
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Sounds like our DA, who is so massively unqualified for her job that her own SISTER wrote letters to the editor begging people not to vote for her.
Alas, she was a GrOPer who posed with a gun and talked about God, so despite three out of four of the county sheriffs in our district endorsing the Democrat (!! ZOMG) who had been appointed to the position, Linda Stanley won and promptly began fucking shit up, to the point where she stands a very good chance of being disbarred.
Yay, law and order party!
rikyrah
@Baud:
Israel.
So….they’re going to abandon Ukraine over Israel?
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodingers_cat:
That’s so weird, considering that Bernie is almost a year older than Joe.
UncleEbeneezer
@The Thin Black Duke: You mean Roy WOOD Jr, lol. RJJ is the boxer (I’ve made that same mistake several times). Roy Wood Jr. is amazing. If you don’t know it already, his podcast is really hilarious.
cain
@cmorenc: See my comment above. Jeff’s a humanist. Regardless, his vote and the vermont senators weren’t needed for the bill to pass.
Johnson though said it won’t pass unless ::checks notes:: it contains border protections.
Does he realize how much of a fool he looks or how much the house looks as an institution? The man already insinuated that the border protection can all be done by executive fiat and doesn’t need funding. Stupid motherfucker. Which is it?
Matt McIrvin
@citizen dave: I want The Amber Ruffin Show back.
schrodingers_cat
@UncleEbeneezer: Logical consistency was never a strong suit for assorted tankies and self proclaimed progressives.
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
Yeah, but bad Republican DAs never seem to get press. Bad Dem DAs, OTOH, are treated as indicative of Democrats’ love of crime. It’s frustrating.
Matt McIrvin
@SiubhanDuinne: Bernie fans railing against the gerontocracy was always weird, but it happened.
Kay
@Baud:
Not true of Jon Stewart but middle aged comics seem to punch down now. It really bothers me. It’s a weird bullying kind of humor. Mean spirited. Maybe they just need a shakeup in the industry – new blood.
Jeffro
New voter guide out from Biden/Harris HQ:
(and they @-ed the @NYTimes about it, too). LOL
LOVE.
IT.
stacib
@schrodingers_cat: Yup. I went from being a fan who watched TDS every night to not even knowing when John Stewart actually left the show. The Obama stuff was too much for me.
Baud
@cain:
He only cares what he looks like to God.
God, unfortunately, isn’t talking to him, so he doesn’t realize he looks like a fool to God.
Alison Rose
@UncleEbeneezer: This is my point. He came into the job at a time when his crap made a little bit of sense, and he never left it behind even when circumstances changed and he should have.
Baud
@Jeffro:
👍
TBone
@Matt McIrvin: me too
Baud
@Kay:
I’m not sure how new that is. It just seems more out of place now because liberals have changed for the better.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
He wants to loot the RNC….I hope this is obvious to everyone.
schrodingers_cat
@stacib: Same here. I reached my limit after he gave John Yoo a tongue bath. And was insulting to both Nancy Pelosi and President Obama when they were guests on his show.
Matt McIrvin
@stacib: Stewart’s final months hosting were in 2015 and I always remember how thrilled he was that wacky Donald Trump had gotten into the race and was giving him all this absurd, hilarious material.
lowtechcyclist
@cain:
I’m still pissed that the Dems never held any hearings about the child separations. The House Dems could have done that during 2019 or 2020, when the GOP-held Senate prevented the Dems from passing legislation. And the Senate Dems could have spared the time to do that during the current Congress.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Wow, they brought back a wealthy white cis male Xer as host of a cable comedy news show. Innovative!
You said it, Kay. Insufferable.
Kill yer television.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Matt McIrvin:
People like that have no sense of nuance. You can mock the right-wing freaks and still disapprove of Swift’s carbon footprint imo
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I googled child separation hearing and a bunch of videos of hearings came up.
Does this link work?
ETA: that’s the video tab on Google. The main search page also shows some videos.
geg6
@Dagaetch:
I tend to agree. We provide tons of funding for Israel on the regular. I don’t see why we need to send them any more.
geg6
@schrodingers_cat:
I saw a clip, of which I watched about 10 seconds. Same as he ever was.
lowtechcyclist
@rikyrah:
Best it will do for him is pay his legal bills, while starving other GOP campaigns for money. I’m good with that.
StringOnAStick
I love my newly adopted state of Oregon, and I love my wonderful senators. My House member is a magat though and is about to get a piece of my mind.
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
I think he’s desperate for money. He’s scraping the bottom of the barrel of what he’s conned from his followers to pay his legal fees. His other businesses are losing money. He has an $80 million fine he has to pay in 30 days and I don’t think he has the money. He wants the Republican Party to pay it for him.
matt
In private, Ted Cruz putting on a cat suit and lip synching to ‘I want to be evil’ sung by Eartha Kitt.
Baud
@matt:
Fixed.
Alison Rose
@matt: I loathe you for putting that image in my mind.
John S.
RE: Jon Stewart
I don’t think the show was as bad as people are making it out to be, but it was pretty bad.
He destroyed the Hur report by framing it as a huge problem that a president can’t remember things in a deposition… and then showed multiple clips of Trump and his kids doing exactly that in numerous taped depositions.
However, the numerous gratuitous swipes at Biden’s age are just too obvious to actually be funny. Knocking Biden for his press conference where he should have kept walking away instead of going back to address one more question (and making a “gaffe”) was also pretty obvious.
But from there, he framed things as “while America questioned Biden’s mental fitness over the weekend, what was Trump doing” and then fucking demolished Trump for his insane ramblings. Unfortunately, when a clear contrast should have been made at that point, Stewart went to his favorite well of bothsiderism and went on a tirade about why two old farts are the best we can muster for presidential candidates. A nice academic point, but one that completely misses the gravity of the moment we find ourselves in as a country.
The contrast is clear. Yes, we have two elderly men running for president. But beyond that, there are few similarities.
Anyway
I skipped Jon Stewart but came across Rachel talking about Putin’s recent interview with Fucker Carlson and stopped to watch – it was excellent and scaary. Putin talking about Poland forcing Hitler’s hand to start WWII etc – she tied that with Dumpf’s talk about NATO and how unserious the media convo about all this has been. Pretty chilling — I cannot understand how R senators are so complacent about Russia.
Good background too about a Fascist-loving architect from the 40s – Philip Johnson
brendancalling
I expectd it from most of those turds, but as a former Vermont resident and voter, I am going to have an unpleasant conversation with Welch and Sanders after work today.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Miss Bianca: Kim Gartner is a progressive. The progressive activists in St. Louis all cheered when she was elected. She was absolutely incompetent at her job. Some of these people still support her. Like I said, I will never look at them the same way again. They are not living in the real world.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud: This is the first I’d heard of it, five years later.
Heard plenty that year about all those bills that Pelosi was passing that were doomed to be ignored by Mitch the Turtle, and kept on waiting for the focus to shift to hearings.
Baud
@John S.:
I’m admittedly in the tank, but I think it would be hard to muster someone better than Biden, if you look at his work product rather than his demographics.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
This.
They want a country that completely comports to their version of the world, all snug, warm and comfy in their very limited view of humanity – that all humans must comport to a single concept of living, that males are always in charge, that all woman are secondary and have 12 children to support their ongoing sameness, obedience and narrow, rigid rules of being human, in which all speak the same, proper language, all attend the one and only church in their town, that all dress appropriately, men in suits, woman in plain dresses – even when doing housework, and on and on and oh, I left out completely and utterly boring and quiet – IOW subjects. Now of course that has rarely or never actually worked, for many what should be obvious reasons but mainly because it hides humanity under a ton of bullshit. Thankfully this has changed rather dramatically over my lifetime – except in many parts/views of the conservative – republican party.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I don’t know what to tell you. There’s a lot of information out there and even more noise. Everyone is going to miss something.
Leto
@Anyway: On Lawrence O’Donnell’s show, he had professor Timothy Snyder on making the same point. Also his opening segment is very good: Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day
rikyrah
@lowtechcyclist:
I am too, which is why I don’t care about this nepo hire.
Alison Rose
@John S.:
That’s a big part of my irritation. Like, obviously, focusing on Biden’s age and mild memory lapses when we’ve got a sociopathic wannabe dictator on the other side is infuriating. But also…it just isn’t funny. There are only so many jokes you can make about someone being old and forgetting stuff, and it’s already tired and cliché. It’s getting into “Take my wife–please!” territory.
rikyrah
@Frankensteinbeck:
Yep…so obvious..
BWA AHA HA HA HA HA HA AHA HA HA HA
WaterGirl
@Jackie: That makes sense. I saw that tweet just as I was heading out the door, so I added it to the post.
As long as there were enough votes to pass it in the Senate, I have no problem with any Democratic senator who voted against it because of the aid to Israel.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Now, that, I have a problem with. Voting no for bullshit reasons.
Graham is worse than the parasites that grow in pond scum.
Sister Golden Bear
In a thread last night, there was discussion about Republicans tarring everyone who they dislike — especially trans people — as pedophiles because of the universal visceral reaction against pedophile. I wanted to note they’ve been using the same playbook to accuse any recent mass shooting suspect of being trans or non-binary, to the point that police investigating the Lakewood, Texas church shooting had to debunk this.
Unsurprisingly, LibsOfTiktok has been driving this to incite stochastic terrorism against trans/non-binary folks. Characterizing us as “violent extremist” is moving into Radio Rwanda “we need to kill them before they kill us” territory.
gvg
@Dman: They had the votes, so some extra votes were able to “vote their conscience.” I think the point is to demonstrate that it’s really because of Ukraine, and Israel was only getting the money to get a few Republican votes. I think it is significant that Bernie who is Jewish, is one of the no votes. They are trying to be careful not to look antisemitic at a time when that has actually been demonstrated for real. At the same time we have voters who are upset with Israels actions. And this should signal Israel’s voters to be careful who they elect, because in the future as our next generation comes to power, we might not be as supportive.
John S.
@Baud:
I’m in the tank, too. But for me, I tend to look more at the Biden ADMINISTRATION than just Biden himself. Those people are only there because Biden is there, and that is more important than any gaffe Biden makes.
Kelly
Yes, our Jeff Merkley is always a team player. I voted for Steve Novic in the 2008 primary and in retrospect I’m glad Merkley won.
Baud
@John S.:
That too. But Biden himself has been impressive. His gaffes are meaningless to me. He’s always done that, and he’s never been a master orator.
schrodingers_cat
@schrodingers_cat: Oops that was an answer to Subaru Diane.
Alison Rose
@Baud: Most people, especially politicians, aren’t master orators. And it shouldn’t matter, because it has fuck all to do with their ability to do whatever job they’re running for/holding. When people go after Harris for not being a terrific public speaker, I’m just like, explain to me why that matters at all.
The Thin Black Duke
@UncleEbeneezer: Woops. Sorry. Thanks.
Bupalos
@rikyrah: Russia is manifestly less “white” than Ukraine.
The populist right wing attraction to Russia is aboit 50/50 split between admiration for Putin’s tough guy authoritarian/”traditionalist” image and a kind of needy “we can’t fford that” isolationism.
Jeffro
Which day, specifically?
I appreciate the lead time, but I need to make sure I’m both stocked up here *hic* and have the following day off for the *hic* happy occasion. =)
John S.
@Alison Rose:
The problem I have with the lopsided framing of Biden being old is that Trump is fucking old, too. And while Stewart did a good job of highlighting that, it was in service to false equivalence.
Biden and Trump are both old. But Trump is a deranged wannabe fascist dictator who literally is not fit to be the mayor of a small town let alone president of the United States whereas Biden has a solid record of accomplishments.
It’s what makes them different that is important — not how they are similar. And that doesn’t comport with Stewart (or the MSM) schtick.
Baud
@Alison Rose:
I’m not going to say speechifying isn’t part of the job. But he’s fine in that department, even if he doesn’t have Obama’s or Clinton’s oratory skills. Biden excels in other areas. He doesn’t have to be the best at everything.
ETA: Biden, to me, is on par with W when it comes to speaking, or maybe a little better.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: This bad Republican DA is *finally* getting some press, mostly because she screwed up a really high-profile murder case.
She’s not running for re-election, thank Dawg, but we’ll probably get some other GOP goober in there, this area being what it is. Le sigh.
Alison Rose
@Baud: Yeah, I think as Dems maybe we got spoiled a bit with Clinton and Obama in that department.
John S.
@Baud:
I agree. But as we both said, we’re already in the tank. The challenge is going to be convincing enough low information people who are not in the tank, and who ultimately are going to decide yet another election.
Ruckus
@Anyway:
I cannot understand how R senators are so complacent about Russia.
They will never say it straight and out loud because they would rather die but Russia is what they believe what they want in a country. Look at my comment above from an old farts point of view, what conservatives want is to go back to a time (that never actually existed) where society ran in all their glory of sameness, control and misogyny. OK in many parts of the country/world that did exist long ago. They are not called, especially by themselves – conservatives without a good reason. Men worked, woman stayed home and had children. It’s not anywhere near a true version of reality, but it was, in the lifetime of humans alive today, the way many men, and yes woman, believed the world/humanity operated.
And we, and many other parts of the world have been coming out of this concept of humanity for at least all of my 3/4 of a century, but on the scale of today, not much longer than that. If you look carefully at the last 100 yrs of history, on a very close, careful and full look at it from both sides of the gender aisle it is rather obvious. Hillary Clinton is a rather stark example of this – she was ahead of her time, and enough of the country was not in any way ready for all that equality.
dirge
It’s a signal to the region that they do not and will not have a realistic option to intervene militarily in the Israel/Palestine conflict, so they need to get on board with the US diplomatic push, or get out of the way.
It’s morally dubious, but pragmatically plausible.
John S.
@Alison Rose:
What’s that old saying? Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line?
It kind of sucks that our candidates seem to have a much higher bar to clear with our voters whereas Republicans will vote for any turd with an R next to their name.
Shalimar
@Barbara: Jon Stewart hasn’t changed. He was like this 9 years ago too, but we accepted it then because it was pre-emails and we could laugh at ourselves. Some jokes about Democrats were fine.
Now it’s like doing commentary on a circus. Half the show are literally clowns. It’s okay to make all the jokes about the clowns. We don’t need jokes about how funny it would be if the high-wire act fell to their deaths.
Miss Bianca
@Anyway:
Presumably no relation to the current little toad(ie) serving as Speaker of the House…except in spirit.
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
It’s also projection.
It’s almost become a meme, but, it needs to be said.
Everytime one of these is arrested and/or revealed to be harming children…
I post
Not A Drag Queen.
I don’t have to tell you this, but they routinely have used the trans community in order to attack the wider LGBTQIA+ community as a whole.
Miss Bianca
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I am aware.
One keeps hoping that our progressive betters actually ARE going to be better at their jobs, and yet…
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
If a tree falls in the forest, and all that: I was looking for something like that, and it went right by me. If I didn’t notice, I wonder how many people did.
geg6
@sab:
Perhaps Jon Stewart should consider whether he’s too old to be hosting and producing a show ostensibly aimed at youngs.
moonbat
Whenever someone begins to go on about Biden’s age I ask them how any of the landmark legislation that has passed during his administration would be made better if he were 20 years younger. Does your student loan have to be forgiven by someone in their 50s for you to feel good about? No? Then pull for the old man who is making people’s lives better instead of the Adderall-addled psychopath who wants to put brown children in cages. This is SO not complicated.
TBone
@Anyway: I liked that too, unsettling as it was.
Frankensteinbeck
@dirge:
Yes. There was a very real chance that Israel would get invaded from the outside when the war started. Hezbollah has stockpiled an absolutely insane number of missiles waiting for a good reason to use them – and this was a good reason. We’ve seen nothing worse than a few Houthi rockets exactly because the US stepped in and said we were backing up Israel. The danger isn’t over, either. Fucking Netenyahu is willing to risk the death of all Israelis to drag out this war and see if he can drive all the Palestinians out of Gaza.
The Thin Black Duke
@geg6: Stewart’s TDS is this era’s “The Tonight Show” for the audience who reads the NYT and listens to NPR.
Kay
I think the “too many of them are too old” criticism is rational in a legislature or a lifetime appointment to a court but it doesn’t make any sense for a President. Joe Biden is out of a job in 4 years max and there will be 14 or 15 younger Democrats vying for first place after that, starting with the VP.
It’s a problem that always takes care of itself in 8 years, max. Endless congressional terms? Might be a problem. Lifetime appointment to a court? Often a problem. But not President. It just doesn’t apply.
Baud
@moonbat:
As I recently posted...
narya
@Baud: One of the things that is increasingly irritating to me is that the so-called “reporters” aren’t actually going out and, say, REPORTING on all of the things that are happening as a result of the legislation that Biden has led, championed, signed, etc. Instead, we get a zillion articles on “age” and “gaffes.” F that–do some actual work, please.
Alison Rose
I do have to wonder if there would be as much hand-wringing about Biden’s age and supposed infirmity if his Veep were a white guy.
Kay
@The Thin Black Duke:
Yup. Just like Joe Rogan is Rush Limbaugh to men now in their thirties and forties.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl:
Yes this, thank you.
Someone really needs to remind me why some people here are shitting on Jeff Merkley, of all people. For fuck’s sake. Jeff Merkley, who votes with Biden over 95% of the time. Jeff Merkley, who is considered one of the most reliable Democrats in office.
If we could fill the Senate with Jeff Merkley clones, we’d be a lot better off.
I suppose we can never pass up an opportunity for hippie-punching!
TBone
@Leto: ❤️
geg6
@rikyrah:
This was my very first thought on hearing this last evening. And those idiots are going to let him. Hope no other GOP office holders were planning on any financial help from the party!
O. Felix Culpa
@lowtechcyclist:
Impressive goalpost moving:
Dems are bad because they didn’t hold hearings!
Akshully, they did. See provided link.
Dems are bad because I didn’t know about it, and it’s their fault I missed it!
Matt McIrvin
@Frankensteinbeck: If I recall correctly, during one of the periods when the media were really pumping hard the “accidental lab leak” hypothesis, Stewart did a whole bit promoting it.
I got the sense that his main angle was the reasonable-both-sider thing: “liberal media must bend over backwards to correct itself when it was wrong, and we must admit we have been proven wrong,” never mind that we hadn’t been proven wrong, this was just security-community weirdness going off on a tangent. I remember being struck at the time by how the scientific consensus and the security/military/law-enforcement consensus had become completely disjoint.
Not so much the Chinese bioweapon conspiracy part, but he seemed not to realize that this was one of those mott-and-bailey arguments and the “science mistake” version was providing cover for the “Fauci collaborated on a Chinese bioweapon” version.
Sister Golden Bear
@rikyrah:
Absolutely. As I said last night, from the sources have news about a conservative minister, cop or teacher arrested, convicted or sentenced pretty much daily.
Ksmiami
@Kay: They are old and unfunny and most of all unwilling to change and grow.I find Stewart and Maher unwatchable and I’m not that young.
schrodingers_cat
@Alison Rose: Nailed it! What they are afraid of is not Biden’s age but his successor’s gender and ethnicity.
Ruckus
@Baud:
Not exactly innovative comedy.
Not exactly comedy of any kind.
geg6
@matt:
I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU!
I’m going to have nightmares tonight. Damn you! ;-)
Alison Rose
@schrodingers_cat: If Kamala were Kevin and had a complexion at the far left end of the MAC foundation spectrum…
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: And bromedian.
moonbat
@Baud: Yup.
Shalimar
@Alison Rose: I am 100% certain that none of the people who care about Biden’s age would be bothered if they liked the VP who will take over if something happens to him. The undercurrent of all this bitching is anti-Harris.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay:
Except that with Trump, we really have no assurance of that. We know he’s going to try to ignore the term limit and run for a third term if he wins, and he’ll just hope he’s rigged the system enough for it to stick.
He was coming up with reasons the Constitutional language supposedly didn’t apply to him even during his term in office, though he didn’t even have a second term yet. It was some nonsense about “unfair” stuff Obama had done to him in 2016, which somehow entitled him to extra terms in office.
Mr. Bemused Senior
[I know I’m preaching to the choir here …]
Comparing Biden and Trump, don’t overlook the fact that an administration is made up of many people. Who would Trump bring to a second administration? Michael Flynn, Kash Patel, Stephen Miller, probably even Steve Bannon. Blech.
[ ETA Need I mention Biden’s excellent choices in contrast?]
O. Felix Culpa
@Alison Rose:
I don’t think you need to wonder. The misogynoir is blatant.
Or what @schrodingers_cat said.
Kathleen
@Frankensteinbeck: Which interview was that? I thought he treated Michelle poorly. And Nancy Pelosi.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
Maher is worse because at least Stewart didn’t glom onto the dumb anti woke thing. HOW LONG are they planning on relying on this stale shit? How many ways can you tell a joke about pronouns? It’s all just so bitter and mean spirited – which I don’t get at all,btw. These people are WILDLY successful and wealthy. Why aren’t they grateful for that? Why are they punching down at 19 year old Lefty activists? How is this “truth to power”? They target the most powerless people out there. HA HA HA – it’s all just so forced and dumb.
geg6
@dirge:
Just to be clear, I totally understand that. And yet, it’s a very expensive signal and I do not support giving them a dollar more than what we’ve already committed to. I do not approve of what they are doing and, until they dump Bibi, I would prefer we give them nothing.
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
You don’t have to remind me…I will never forget.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s true. I’m convinced Trump will try to stay in office if he’s reelected. I think if the GOP are in power they’ll simply ignore the rule.
But Biden is no threat to the advancement of younger people on the bench or a geriatric legislature. He’s done in 4 no matter what happens.
gene108
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
Doesn’t get asked enough. Also, are there any Republican policy experts left?
Usually some Under Secretary in a prior Republican administration gets promoted to to Cabinet Secretary, but Trump refused to use most Bush, Jr. people, and Trump had a lot of turnover in Cabinet Secretaries and staff. I’m not sure anyone qualified exists.
Redshift
@rikyrah:
And if they (and their base) weren’t so dumb, they’d know that he’s a Slavic supremacist, not a white supremacist. He’s racist as hell, sure, but he doesn’t have any particular belief of unity with other “white” people either. And he’s restored the Russian Orthodox Church to power, but not for the cause of Christianity around the world. But he makes the right noises, and they salivate and sell out their country.
Kay
81. This is a real challenge for us. I think it may be worse than “but her emails” just in sheer bulk and how thoroughly it blots out all other news.
Matt McIrvin
@Ruckus: The online chuds are less circumspect about what they admire about Russia. The white supremacy as rikyrah said, yes, but I think it’s mainly sexual–the over-the-top macho posturing. They watch Russian Army recruitment ads and declare these guys must be invincible gods because there’s so much testosterone oozing out of the video. They imagine the Russians kicking our asses because we got all effeminate and celebrate LGBTQ rights and diversity.
The idea that all this could just be affectation doesn’t register–they don’t really distinguish between affectation and reality.
Alison Rose
@Mr. Bemused Senior: YES. This is crucial and another thing the purity babies refuse to contend with.
rikyrah
@Alison Rose:
Answer to that is no.
NO.
N-O
sab
Just out of curiosity I googled Biden Cabinet and Trump Cabinet and compared them. What a contrast of competence. And most of Trump ones burned their bridges on the way out the door.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
The only reason repubs are going so over the top is that they are in some ways losing control of their own. The real repubs want to live in a world that has never existed or if it did it was not the world that most of us have ever lived in – either when I was a kid or now and they can’t because it’s not actually a world that ever seemed to exist, except possibly over 100 yrs ago, when anyone still alive today was a child. And this is not to say that the world and humanity hasn’t changed it has, and in many rather good ways. Of course it’s humanity, it will always be 2 steps forward, 1 backasswards.
Alison Rose
So this is interesting. Zelenskyy just posted a brief video about the Ukraine funding:
I’m sure he knows the chances in the House are dim, but I like this shot across the bow. Like, “Hey, the world thinks the Senate is awesome. Do you wanna let them be better than you?” Unfortunately for many House GOPers, the answer is yes. But I like that he is highlighting who exactly is the problem here.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Maher is worse in many ways. He was riding the “anti-woke” train all the way back when it was about “political correctness”.
He’s also been alt-med-bullshit-curious for a long time (I think he got in from the direction of PETA-style animal-rights activism) and used to go on about how medicine doesn’t work anyway and Louis Pasteur recanted on his deathbed.
schrodingers_cat
The elite media has contempt for Democrats. I started paying close attention to politics since Bill Clinton was President. Be it Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, HRC and now Biden, the press’s attitude towards them is disdain while they fawned over W, McCain, Romney and even the fascist Orangina
It is in the DNA of the elite media to hate on the Ds, either from the left or the right.
Sure Lurkalot
@Kay:
Am I being ageist to point out that at 61, Mr. Both Sides is not middle aged? Neither is Bill Maher. Maybe Chappelle at 50 fits the middle aged puncher down definition?
Like the MSM, these guys have their lanes, it pays well and self-awareness is for suckers. Obviously enough people think they’re funny and/or edgy. I tuned in to Maher for a while until his guest list, sexism, Islamophobia and arrogance got way too much.
Alison Rose
@Ruckus: Yeah, the whole “let’s go back to a bygone era where everything was great” is always so transparent. Great for which people, buddy? My dad was born in 1942, and I remember a few years ago, he said something like, “The time I grew up in might have been fine for white men like me, but it was pretty much garbage for anyone else.” But of course…for the right, that’s a feature, not a bug.
Soprano2
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I was kind of shocked when I saw he appointed a black man to that prosecutor’s spot. I thought it would be a white guy from Clayton or Ladue. I have read where other people from St. Louis thought Gardner was a disaster; I only thought the voters should have replaced her, not the Republican attorney general. I hate the way the state legislature wants to run St. Louis and Kansas City.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: That said, I think that if Trump did try to be President for a third term, even wingnut courts would probably do their best to knock him down, because that’s a real threat to their power. But the most they’d do is demand that he step down in favor of a VP who would be his puppet anyway.
Alison Rose
@Matt McIrvin: Maher is a pig and an asshole. He can fuck off into the sun.
Shalimar
@Kay: 81 articles about Hur’s report is impressive. In the next few days, the New York Times will have published more articles about Biden’s memory in one week than the number of indictments Trump has amassed in an entire lifetime.
narya
A million years ago, Maher wrote a novel, which I read. (His being an open atheist was a positive point in my book.) But everyone in the book was just awful–it was like reading Tom Wolfe, but less well-written. I came away from it thinking a lot less of him, and at this point I can’t stand to hear him talk about anything. Stewart isn’t fully there yet (didn’t watch last night), but as you all have noted, his constant both-sides bullshit is just enraging: if he can’t see the difference between the “sides” at this point, then I don’t trust his vision on anything.
Also: second the recommendation for Rachel’s show last night.
The Thin Black Duke
@Kay: Maher is pissed off because the young women at colleges that used to swoon over him thirty years ago correctly think of him “that old crank on TV” who isn’t funny. Maher talked about touring campuses in Texas because the audiences aren’t so hung up on being–wait for it–“woke”. Johnny Carson was an artifact of his time, but Carson was more receptive to a new generation of comedians on his show than Maher is nowadays.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Absolutely this.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
I think Carson never stopped being a good interviewer of the guests he had on his show. His monologue might have gotten less than avant garde.
geg6
@Alison Rose:
My parents were born in the 1920s and said pretty much the same thing to me.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Its not just Biden, the pattern with HRC was the same. Its no coincidence that they always end up aiding the Republican party for all their talk of revolution.
Redshift
@Matt McIrvin: The one I recall is when he was a guest on Colbert, and he basically said he thought it could have come from a lab, because “scientists are always doing crazy stuff like that.” Colbert didn’t just let it go, and Stewart only appeared in bits that were scripted or prerecorded for a year or more afterward. (It’s also when I pretty much stopped paying attention to him.)
Matt McIrvin
@Alison Rose: My mom was born the same year, and when I was growing up, a constant refrain from her was that any nostalgic appeal or depiction you saw about the 1940s, 50s or 60s was a lie, it wasn’t like that.
Alison Rose
@geg6: Reminds me of a line from the Last Week Tonight episode on “U.S. History”:
Soprano2
@The Thin Black Duke: I liked the show that used to be on after The Daily Show; it had a black host, I can’t remember his name right this minute. He had on interesting guests that I didn’t see on other shows. It was called “Keeping it 100”.
Alison Rose
@Soprano2: Hmm…do you mean Larry Wilmore’s show? It was called “The Nightly Show” and he had a regular segment called “Keep it 100”.
Soprano2
@Matt McIrvin: To be absolutely fair, most comedians reacted in that way. Like most people, they thought he couldn’t win.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Carson’s brand of comedy didn’t age well, but he never, ever went the route of cranking in public about how it was the children who were wrong–he nurtured younger comics who were doing very different things from what he’d done. David Letterman was the guy’s protegé and preferred replacement, and in the 1980s, Letterman’s stuff was out-there, subversive anti-humor.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s my recollection as well.
Soprano2
@Kay: I point to Colbert when these middle-aged guys like Maher complain that no one has a sense of humor anymore. Or Trevor Noah. They seem to get plenty of laughs from the young people. Maher just wants to tell the same misogynistic, anti-trans and anti-gay jokes he was telling 30 years ago and get the same laughs he got then.
sab
@Soprano2: I agree with you on Colbert. Trevor Noah is still on the young side (39).
Geminid
@Alison Rose: I’m not sure chances for this aid package in the House are so dim. Intelligence Chair Mike Turner sounded fairly confident about it when he visited Ukraine Saturday. It could be that Turner was just whistling past the graveyard, but I think he and the other Republican Ukraine hawks have got something cooking with their Democratic counterparts.
Alison Rose
@Geminid: Johnson won’t bring it to the floor, is the issue.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Part of it might have been that Carson’s material was never really “edgy” so he never felt the loss of his edgy status like a lot of comedians seem to.
David Letterman himself is an interesting case–he seems to have been kind of an asshole personally, but today, he also seems to have evolved in the direction of being OK with his place in history and not particularly resentful that you can’t make some joke or other any more, etc. On the other hand, I do see that kind of complaint from aging comedians as different as Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Soprano2: I was surprised, too. Generally, I am VERY opposed to meddling in the city from the state. However, this was the rare exception where it was needed and helpful.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I don’t know if Carson was ever edgy, but I did read about this a while ago.
Soprano2
@Alison Rose: I think about 95% of the alleged worry about his age is about the VP, especially when Democrats say it.
Shalimar
@Alison Rose: Turner needs enough Republicans signing the discharge petition to make up for any Democratic refusals. Apparently signing it is a big sign of disrespect for the Speaker, so there might be some hesitancy. Doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re willing to vote for it you should be willing to sign the petition to bring it to a vote, but I am glad I don’t understand Republican psyches.
Alison Rose
@Shalimar:
LOL yeah, you can say that again.
Soprano2
@Kay: Good Lord, what a waste of space that could have been used better. They could have run one or two stories each, tops, and that would have been plenty of coverage. Hur sure did know what to put in that report to get the press to talk about exactly what he wanted them to talk about. It’s so easy to play them. Sometimes I wish Democrats were better at that.
Soprano2
@Matt McIrvin: He has a thing about overweight people, too. He thinks they mostly cause all of their own health problems, and he made a point to talk about how he thought the people who got sickest from Covid were all obese.
Kay
@The Thin Black Duke:
I wonder what “comes next” after these guys. I look forward to something new and interesting.
And funny. Funnier :)
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
To say it’s “sus” would be putting it mildly.
Soprano2
@The Thin Black Duke: Hadn’t thought about that as a factor, but I’m sure that’s right. A lot of Maher’s image of himself is about being attractive to attractive young women.
dirge
I do think that’s a reasonable position to hold, and I’m actually glad to see a few of our senators making that point with their votes. That said, I think on balance, this funding makes sense, in conjunction with recent moves to require humanitarian assurances, and in context of diplomatic efforts. That assurance requirement gives Biden some discretion over actually delivering the funds, and I hope he plans to use that as leverage.
Soprano2
@Soprano2: Larry Wilmore, that’s his name. I knew I’d remember it eventually!
Soprano2
@Alison Rose: Yeah, that was it. I eventually remembered.
Soprano2
@sab: Yeah, but I guarantee you college students think Noah is old!
Kay
@Soprano2:
Right? Those are the three premier outlets- lavishly staffed and funded. And that’s what they ALL chose to cover. How is this even competitive? They all do exactly the same stories at the same times.
It sort of disgusts me too because it’s so easy. They don’t even have to read the report, let alone do any research or draft anything original. What is the value add? They’re negative value – the public would have been better served just following a link to the report. They subtracted value.
Geminid
@Alison Rose: Turner knows that Johnson will not let the aid package on the floor if he can help it, but but the Intelligence Chairman sounded confident nonetheless.
sab
@Soprano2: I know. When I went back to grad school at age 29 the professors all thought I was an undergrad but the kids knew I was an old.
sab
@Soprano2: I loved his show.
Geminid
@Shalimar: Johnson is not a very intimidating Speaker, and he needs his Caucus’s Ukraine hawks more than they need him. So I don’t think he can stop them from signing a discharge petion or will punish them if they do. Johnson might even be relieved to see the package passed over his opposition.
Citizen Alan
@Matt McIrvin:
This is why I have such naked, seething contempt for Bill Maher: The truth he won’t dare utter when he babbles about “cancel culture” is that few celebrities have ever been cancelled as hard as … Bill Maher. Politically Incorrect was a hugely popular and successful show. And it was unceremoniously canceled and Maher banished to the wilderness because a single comment Maher made about the 9/11 hijackers was taken wildly out of context by conservatives and used to paint him as unpatriotic while we were at war.
And that’s why he spends all his time going after the Oberlin Student Council while the Florida GOP is literally banning entire concepts from discussion in schools. Because he’s a fucking gutless coward who knows that liberals won’t fight back while conservatives will go for the jugular if he ever says anything to hurt their feelings.
Sandia Blanca
@Shalimar: What a great analogy!
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
Agreed.
cain
@Suzanne: I would love a senate filled with Jeff Merkely and Ron Wyden. Never been so proud of our oregon senators.
Strong personal convictions and pragmatic.
cain
@schrodingers_cat: They hate us for our empathy.
Ruckus
@John S.:
They have a much higher percentage of turds than we do.
We mostly expose them for what they are and mostly not vote for them. They expose them for what they are and that raises them in stature for a percentage of the conservative side of the aisle.
It’s not a good or decent way to be but then this is humanity…..
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: Makes sense–there is a huge overlap between the quack-medicine subculture and the fitness subculture. It seems odd at first glance because of course real regular-type doctors will all tell you that physical fitness is good for you. But the alt-med branch of fitness subculture magnifies this into a source of superpowers. You don’t need vaccines or doctors unless you’re lazy and fat.
The COVID-vaccine refuser I argued with the most on Facebook was one of these, a friend of a friend. He wasn’t a conspiracy crank, particularly. He just seemed to hang very much on the reports that people who were in good shape handled COVID better, and thought vaccines were a crutch for people who didn’t have the diligence to take care of themselves like he did, with his keto diet and his exercise regimen.
I think part of it was an idea of authority: if you wouldn’t take his advice to do the exercise regimen and the keto diet, why should he listen to you about vaccines? It seemed like the idea that people who were less fit than him might be telling him what to do about health really rankled.
Ruckus
@Miss Bianca:
Some jobs are a lot harder than they appear. Dealing with the general public can be one of the hardest jobs of all. I was a specialized machinist most of my life and the last part I worked on had a tolerance of +/- 25 millionths of an inch. That’s not a lot of working room there. And yet I’ve also had a job in professional sports that allowed the customers to walk among the participants in the working area and the work part of that job above was relatively easy in comparison to working with the public, mainly because in working with the public (the side of sport that actually pays the rent) one had to watch every single word that came out of one’s mouth. That job was far more tiring because one really didn’t get a chance to focus on one thing, it was like – juggling live grenades is the closest I can think of.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Funding Israel feels a little like funding Russia. Why fund the effort against one murderous dictator and then turn around and fund a different murderous dictator?
Mr. Bemused Senior
I have trouble even thinking about how to respond to that point of view. “You idiot!” doesn’t do it justice and of course wouldn’t help.
Bemused Senior experienced fat shaming from doctors and I firmly believe it damaged her health. I have no sympathy for people who express such a view.
Manyakitty
@lowtechcyclist: that was one of the worst things from an administration of monstrosities.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
R’s are followers.
D’s are not just followers. Yes in governing we have to collectively hire people to do the work but that is not the same as blind acceptance that a person with a specific letter for the side they are on will do blind following the supposedly smart person we as a group hired to do that work. IOW we see the world as more than having a single working path and that the path chosen might be different than we would take but does it lead to the desired ending.
The other side needs and wants the one path solution.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
My dad was born in 1917 and he still did not accept the concept that some humans are not people worthy of his respect based upon their skin color. I took that to mean that we are all the same color, just different shades of it. After all it is the percentage of the same chemical in our bodies that creates the variations of skin color that the human race has. And other than which gender we are, physically we are far, far more alike than many humans can admit. We look for differences to set us apart, view ourselves as better, stronger, whatever. But the reality is that we are far more alike than not. We just have a larger choice of which partner we chose and over time that can change how large groups of us look. More homogeneous groups look more homogeneous.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
I do like your style….
Miss Bianca
@Citizen Alan: Damn, I had all but forgotten that episode.
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: Probably too late, I don’t, but the year in which the case was brought was 1986/87, so it goes back a long way. I believe that it was a national rule that each state committee was required to adopt as well. I know that the genesis for the rule was pretty basic, that women make up at least half of the voting population and the state party needed to be a reflection of potential voters, at least at a high level. I guess inclusion of women wasn’t happening organically through existing processes.
Ruckus
@Baud:
His monologue might have gotten less than avant garde.
Jonny’s monologue delivery got stale. He timed out of comedic stand up. Like all of us do at some point. And at least his delivery started out well. And
somemany people just never time in, they live – they die and almost no one notices.chrome agnomen
@Soprano2:
yeah, like Ann Coulter. (gag)
dirge
POSIWID
I find it especially infuriating when they cut directly from a speech to a panel discussion, so that before the actual substance can sink in, you’re listening to a bunch of obfuscation, distraction, and theater criticism. Never mind what he just said, we’re here to tell you what you heard.
But I think that’s very much a part of the job. To complicate what is clear, to obscure what is complex. Absolutely necessary if you’re going to get people believing dumb shit like it’s bad to feed kids or tax the rich or whatever.
wjca
Unless, of course, it was a gay white guy…
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Geminid:
Jon Stewart has always been a lousy comedian. The writers for The Daily Show were what made him acceptable and that only worked as long as he stuck to their material. He’s high from sniffing his own farts now that some people think he has something interesting to say, which means that his takes are going to suck because he sucks.
For Democrats, Stewart is a kind of Greenwald.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
It never is. Most of us remember things from our history which was either very good for us or very bad. And that reconstructs how we see and say things.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
They can’t see that there is any difference between affectation and reality. They want what they want when they want it and can’t understand why they don’t get it, other than it MUST be someone else’s fault, because it sure as hell can’t be theirs. To me most of the conservatives I’ve met have fallen along the line of why isn’t my life how I want it and how I see it. They are who they are and must be rewarded for that. Which of course is not how real life normally is.
Quadrillipede
I hope he succeeds!