It was downright painful last night to see so many people on Balloon Juice still spinning over what to do about Joe Biden – 4 days after the fucking debate. There is literally nothing we can to to influence any decision-making that is going on.
And now this corrupt Supreme Court has all but pronounced themselves the arbiters of everything. And here I though George W. Bush was the decider! It’s disheartening.
Uncertainty is hard. It totally sucks. The stakes this time around are for everything. Seems like we have a couple of obvious goals here. First, don’t contribute to the problem. Second, do everything we can to win everywhere in November.
We’re not formally starting our next round of fundraising for a week or more, as they are working on a match for us, but in case you’re looking for ways to make a difference right now, I have added the Four Directions – Wisconsin thermometer in the sidebar. Seems like in all the big swings states, the Native population is larger than the margin of victory.
We haven’t hit Wisconsin yet this year, plus, it seems like the obvious choice for right now since the Republicans will be holding their nominating convention in Milwaukee, staring just two weeks from today.
Watching this video (below) raised my spirits; maybe it will raise yours. The video starts with a short clip of Pete Buttigieg, but then Brian Tyler Cohen adds a terrific summary.
Open thread.
Skippy-san
I wish Buteggieg could be President.
delphinium
Go Pete-that is how you respond!
Haven’t seen Brian Tyler Cohen before, but yeah, what he said too!
Baud
@Skippy-san:
He can be.
Josie
I will have to wait for my next pension check next month to chip in for Wisconsin, but I am very much in favor of contributing to Four Directions. It is right and just to help native Americans get to the polls and can make a big difference in several states.
Scout211
Thank you, WaterGirl.
I was surprised by how many pundits, journalists, reporters, bloggers and podcasters out there seem to know exactly what Joe Biden needs to do. Are they political advisers? Campaign staff? White House staff? Biden family members? Nope. They are just people with opinions and a need to share them. But do they really know what Biden needs to do? I think not, because then we would hear and read just as many stories about what they think Trump needs to do. And except for the Inquirer, *crickets.”
But then I read so many commenters here saying the same thing, seeming to know exactly what Biden needs to do. That’s fine, I’m not out to censor anyone here. But in my opinion, the big question is what do we need to do? That’s really all we can control.
Donations, post cards, volunteering at your local Democratic office, etc., etc.
Let’s do this! And maybe let’s let Joe Biden and his team and family handle Joe Biden.
Omnes Omnibus
Donated.
Mousebumples
Thanks for this, WaterGirl. I always love me some Wisconsin fundraising. I’ll need to check my budget but can hopefully send some scratch their way.
Baud
@Scout211:
I know what I need to do.
Mousebumples
@Scout211: I’m with you. Let’s do the work!
To use the Wisconsin motto – FORWARD!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Skippy-san:
There is no doubt in anybody’s mind that Sec Pete will run again.
I hope he does. He’ll bring an amazing set of communication skills to the table during any primary.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines
Scout211
I think you already hinted that you need to leave us. How could you, Baud!? 😭
Betty Cracker
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t have a problem with people on a politics blog obsessing over a recent bombshell political event. Some of the takes are dumb, unrealistic and repetitive, IMO, but what else is new? 🤷♀️
Splitting Image
The thing that struck me the most was that less than 24 hours after the debate, the Supreme Court handed down a terrible decision, arguably worse than Dobbs (which is plenty bad enough), and the chattering classes completely ignored it. They blathered on about the debate all weekend, completely ignoring the overturning of Chevron. This is on top of ignoring Trump’s performance at the debate.
Now today the Court handed down another terrible decision. Still the chatter is about how Biden must go.
H.E.Wolf
@Scout211: Yes to what you wrote.
When I read or hear someone saying, “I need [person] to do [thing]”, I reinterpret it to myself as “I want [person] to do [the thing I want them to do]”.
Sometimes I have to reinterpret myself to myself, when I fall into that habit of speech. :)
Mousebumples
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: didn’t he say himself in an interview that he might not run again, and with 2 little kids at home, they changed his perspective?
I hope he continues to be involved – he’s been great at Transportation. But if he’s not wanting to run in 4+ years, I think that’s okay too.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: We may disagree about the extent to which it was an actual bombshell.
Lumpy
We are officially in Silly Season, I believe. The dialogue over replacing Biden is really dumb. Biden’s performance at the State of the Union was… what? An anomaly? He’s been doing mostly a great job as president… how? The idea of replacing him is mind boggling. He can’t be forced out, there’s no process to replace him, and unless the new nominee is Kamala, the possible replacement suggestions are virtually all absurd. People need to calm the F down.
I don’t care if Biden is in cognitive decline (which I don’t believe, though). Biden’s the nominee and that’s who I’m voting for. If Trump can be president while in prison, then Biden can be president while in cognitive decline, IDGAF.
Odie Hugh Manatee
I got my ass jumped by Jackie here when I predicted this exact result from the Imperial Court. They had faith that the Imperial Court would do the right thing and I had the audacity to disagree with them. I fucking hate being right about this but this has been coming from this court for a long time. The rest of the world has get to be looking on in horror at this decision. We’re fucked and that’s it. All it will take is one more corrupt bastard to win the Presidency and it’s game over.
Our Imperial Court has sown the wind and we will reap the whirlwind. Mark my words, We. Are. Fucked.
Leto
@Baud: get an order of mozzarella sticks? With extra sauce?
Mousebumples
@H.E.Wolf: true.
We all have different ways of dealing with stress – and this is really fucking stressful!
I know from past experience (*cough* 2016), my freaking out isn’t productive and isn’t helpful for my mental health. I need to Do Something. I can’t control so many things. What can I control?
I can postcard. I can try to help cheer people up. (apologies if my self care made your self care worse, to all Juicers) I can donate.
Anyhow – I cope with stress through action. It works for me.
Papa Boyle
I imagine bad faith actors are getting a contact high from Dems feeling depressed, demoralized, immobilized. I get those feelings too. But not for long. Knowing there are people out there trying to immobilize me provides me with another feeling: anger. When I get angry I get active.
Get angry, then get active.
Baud
Frankly, I’m kind of happy that Biden had a poor performance at the debate, because if we end up losing, that’s a less embarrassing reason than losing because our voters think the economy sucks.
Baud
@Scout211:
Yep. Getting my ass out of Dodge.
Chris Johnson
@Mousebumples: Mousebumples, repost that bluesky thing! It’s worth reminding people of the real situation out there.
Leto
@Omnes Omnibus: I wanted to thank you for posting that Monarch link in the other thread. I recently read/learned that France had their own Jan 6th in Jan of 1934. Similar circumstances, with similar after actions. Right wing politicians helped downplay what happened, the people who assaulted the Place de la Concorde basically didn’t face any consequences, and the result was that a lot of those people became important figures in the Vichy government. It just feels similar. Still, the link you provided was very informative. Thanks.
Theresa,MF
As soon as I heard during the debate that Biden had a cold and saw how much more energy he had at the after party they visited, I realized he was taking cold medicine. And cold medicines can really hit older people differently. As in, my mom has taken allergy meds all her life with minimal drowsiness, but sometime after she turned 75 (and after a couple years of other health issues), she found the same dose made her need a nap. She put a hammock on her porch because springtime just means naps now.
I can’t believe no one has discussed this as an explanation for what happened. Did it happen at the worst fking time? Absolutely. But I’ve listened to the Obama Bros and MSNBC and skimmed social media and no one is saying this; instead they are misunderstanding what “sundowning” is. (Info: it’s wayyy closer to what happens with trump, especially those late night posts.)
Omnes Omnibus
@Leto: You are welcome.
BellaPea
I wish somebody here could relieve me of the feeling that this is all a conspiracy…all these highlights in the media about Trump’s plans, the awful Supreme Court decisions, Republicans seeming so positive about the coming election. I’ve never seen so much bad news before. It’s truly frightening.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Mousebumples:
Heh heh, note I didn’t say *when* he’d run again. I would imagine, assuming we win in November, that barring Harris becoming President via Biden’s passing, there will be a lot of negotiating behind-the-scenes regarding who runs for us in 2028.
He’s young and can look to Biden as an example of somebody who can be in the Democratic presidential scrum for decades to come.
Chris Johnson
@Splitting Image: This is overreach. It’s showing their whole ass, with months to go allowing for the reality to sink in.
These decisions are not impossible to work around (apparently with Chevron, you can write legislation more strictly, plus it takes away conservatives’ ability to write vague stuff and interpret it maliciously: own goal, there) but they are miserable optics.
The shit they’re up to is optics poison. They’re not even going to be able to hold on to all of their own coalition. Any of the Haley supporters are doubtless counting their guns and knowing that, because they have publically already gone against Trump, they’re probably first on the list.
There’s already people out there letting slip that the great punishing is soon to arrive. The FIRST on the list will be the Republican betrayers who dared support Haley or whatever. These guys have to sit quiet but they know that’s not going to save them. They have to stop Trump in order to be safe.
Omnes Omnibus
Infographic on paths to prosecution after today’s decision.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Baud:
In the sense of vacation or evacuation?
bluefoot
@Splitting Image:
It was wild. The entire weekend nary a peep about overturning Chevron or any of the other SCOTUS decisions. What the actual F?
Suzanne
Pete Buttigieg is a goddamn national treasure. I have heard it thrown out that he would be a fantastic governor of Michigan after Whitmer.
Splitting Image
@BellaPea:
I don’t think they are all that positive, to be honest. If the Republicans at the New York Times really thought that Biden’s off-night really indicated that he was seriously ill, they would have kept their mouths shut. They wrote all those editorials demanding he resign because he is still the Democrats’ strongest candidate, and they are not sure Trump can beat him.
They have a stranglehold on the Supreme Court, of course, and the court is making hay while the sun shines, but I don’t think Republicans are very confident about much else.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: Folks definitely disagree about that — nothing wrong with hashing that anspect of it out too, IMO.
I don’t buy the line some people are pushing, that it’s a manufactured controversy. I didn’t watch the debate live, and after seeing the media brouhaha the next morning, I looked at the first live debate thread here. People were freaking out in real time without a media assist.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Omnes Omnibus:
The conversation thread on that link centers around the “high threshold to overcome presumptive immunity.”
Which I read to mean it’ll be nothing but Extreme Court Cases down the line for plaintiffs/prosecutors in order to prove they’ve met that threshold.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: Lawfare did a podcast-ish thing that was a helpful explainer of the whole thing, too, including the dissents.
On a related note, what do you think of the notion that, after the Chevron dismantling, one strategy is to flood the courts with cases? I don’t know enough to be able to tell whether there’s any real use to doing that. (The idea is that it would throw sand in the gears that would otherwise give the courts more power than admin agencies, I think?)
Eyeroller
@Theresa,MF: Plus he has a fluency disorder that could easily have been triggered under these circumstances. We sure do have a lot of amateur neurologists and geriatricians in the chattering class. I’d like to know when they passed their board exams. No of course they don’t have a clue what “sundowning” really means. They are mostly idiots.
Nobody who is sundowning or a “vegetable” or badly demented could even read a script at an event afterward and stick to it correctly. The idiocy and — in my mind — bad faith is overwhelming. And it is not helped by shrieking ninnies among “Democratic operatives” who do this all the damned time. Run straight to their buddies in the press to spill all their doubts and trash our candidates.
Josie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m not sure I understand the meaning of presumptive immunity. Does that mean there is a question concerning his/her immunity?
Gin & Tonic
So I’m going to be circumspect here (some may say annoyingly vague) for what I consider valid reasons, but my dear wife and I have returned from the better part of three weeks in a large Eastern European country – at least partially in line with the title of this post. We visited with family, both living and dead, and with friends old and new, some unfortunately also dead. We traveled, saw many sights, had many conversations, attended a wedding. It was wonderful (in the true sense – full of wonder,) it was exhilarating, it lifted my soul, it was exhausting, it was tragic, it was so many things that words fail me. As I digest my experiences and impressions, I’ll post something from time to time, probably also vague in many respects – some of that because I don’t really want things scraped and indexed in a particular context, some because I was asked not to describe things I saw.
But since I’ve come to the realization that I had been consuming more internet than is healthy for me, I think Adam’s threads are the only part of this site I’ll be visiting regularly. If you have questions, best to find me there.
All things considered, it’s good to be back in the US. But I guess I’ve missed a few things.
Mousebumples
@Chris Johnson: on it! 2 posts incoming… Originally posted in the prior thread…
Continued in another comment since I have more links coming…
zhena gogolia
@Baud: There’s no internet where you’ll be?
Spanky
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Twelve years. The kids might be old enough by then.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Suzanne: A 2028 Whitmer / Buttigieg ticket would give me joy. It wouldn’t even matter who was at the top of the ticket. Either would be amazing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: I guess my priorities a bit different from some others. Biden had a bad 30 minutes during a debate, okay. OTOH, the Supreme Court to an axe to 40 years of administrative law on which a metric shit ton of our government regulations are based and then held that in many respects a president is above the law. I fucking don’t care about the debate.
Mousebumples
@Mousebumples:
I don’t know what will happen. But this makes sense to me (and I agree on the Wisconsin piece, anyhow).
(my appointment is almost over, hopefully so I’ll be less responsive to replies, but hope you’ll all join me on Team Do The Work!)
I’m going to do the work. Who’s with me?
Spanky
@bluefoot: Everything makes sense when you work from the premise that the msm is actively working against Biden and Democrats in general.
Omnes Omnibus
@Josie: Short answer: It means that a court presumes the president is immune but the prosecution can change its mind.
Josie
@Omnes Omnibus:
OK. Thanks.
Tony Jay
I’ll be honest with you, I’m considerably more depressed about the arc of British politics than I am about America’s.
The only thing that has changed since last week is that the corporate media have gone balls to the wall to create an ‘ongoing crisis’ for Democrats that they can milk until election day – which they were always going to do anyway – and the utter scum infesting the Supreme Court have gone balls to the wall inventing a Conservaconstitution to replace the one that has worked for 200+ years – which they were always going to do anyway.
You can’t do anything about that. Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of.
All you lot can do is donate, volunteer, campaign, and keep on taking any opportunity you can to remind ‘normal’ voters that the choice is between progressive Government under Democrats and a descent into crab barrel fascism under Stench and the Hench Party.
What else you got going on between now and November that’s a better way to pass the time?
Splitting Image
@Betty Cracker:
If someone has been arguing here in good faith for ten years, I wouldn’t accuse them of being a Republican plant just because they panicked after Biden’s performance. The stakes of losing are very high, and a lot of people are going to be casualties if Trump wins in November. You can’t blame people for being scared of the possibility, and if nothing else, people need a place to vent.
That said, every election cycle and big news event has had these same moments. Every time a Democrat somewhere in the country mispronounces “syzygy”, there is an influx of commenters with brand new nyms saying “Greetings, fellow
humansDemocrats! Looks like there is nothing else to do but abandon our candidate and find someone else to re-unite the party at the last possible minute!” This has always been bad advice and it’s bad advice now.H.E.Wolf
@BellaPea:
People have a tendency to believe in conspiracies when they feel powerless.
Find something – one small, concrete thing – to do. You’re very likely to feel better. (And if there really were a conspiracy, they would just hate for you to get to work on something useful.)
PS: This includes domestic chores, not just political action. I’m cleaning out a drawer of my file cabinet today.
PPS: If you’re considering postcard writing (which is a surefire mood-lifter for those who like doing it), it’s OK to be easy on yourself. Buy stamps and call it good for the day. Buy (or scrounge up, my favorite method) postcards the next day. Sign up with a postcarding group when your supplies come in. Do a small number of cards so that the endorphin rush comes sooner. Etc. etc. :)
Suzanne
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Whitmer and Buttigieg are both now officially from Michigan. But I agree that they’re both great.
We have a really strong team of talent.
Splitting Image
@Mousebumples:
Thanks for posting that thread. I think it summarizes the race fairly well.
It looks to me like the Democrats’ biggest priority ought to be trying to win North Carolina. It seems as though the Republican running for governor is an out-and-proud fascist and the Democrats ought to be able to use Trump’s rhetoric to tie them together. If the Democrats can carry North Carolina, that will go a long way to quieting people’s nerves about the election.
Leto
@Tony Jay: watching Christiano Ronaldo cry. Man, I could do that forever :)
Chris Johnson
@Omnes Omnibus: Fair. I checked in with what Beau of the Fifth Column had to say on the matter.
On Chevron, he figures it’s trouble but could rebound to also damage conservatives. I don’t think he’s a lawyer, but he is also not a scaremonger.
On immunity, Beau was chillingly grim and serious, and is going to be following up on the matter. He read Sotomayor’s quotes in the dissent. He said ‘it is WORSE than she says’. I’m currently checking out Harry Littman’s take on it.
What with you, and also Beau, reacting this way, I’m going to be paying close attention to what you’ve got to say further. Clearly we can’t let this stand.
rikyrah
Christopher Bouzy (spoutible.com/cbouzy) (@cbouzy) posted at 1:12 PM on Mon, Jul 01, 2024:
Let me clarify my position so you don’t waste time tweeting @ me.
If you voted for Jill Stein, fuck you.
If you voted for Trump, fuck you.
If you are a former Trump supporter now trying to tell Democrats what to do, fuck you.
If you want to replace Biden, fuck you. https://t.co/On9DTgRHna
(https://x.com/cbouzy/status/1807839688910098806?t=Qh3KSw4YqnLZ0c3It7w5-g&s=03)
Gloria DryGarden
Heather, less than an hour ago
https://www.facebook.com/heathercoxrichardson/videos/1007439607634452/
Oh, it’s on Facebook.
She says, now we know and see the media won’t help us. It’s down to us, and forming community.
Tony Jay
@Leto:
To mix a couple of references…
Q) What is good in life?
A) Ronaldo, when the keeper saved.
stinger
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Have to say I wouldn’t care for that. It smacks of smoke-filled or, these days, “quiet” rooms where only a few people (read wealthy white males) make the decisions.
In 2028 Harris will have been VP for 8 years to a successful Dem president. Why would she not be the front runner?
And why wouldn’t Whitmer, Pritzker, Buttigieg, Newsom, Crockett, Demings, Underwood, Castro, etc., be free to run in the primaries?
Who in your mind would get to do the negotiating?
Tony Jay
Fuuuuuuck. That should be Slovenia 1-0 Portugal.
Leto
@Tony Jay: OT: ffs, Slovenia, you have to score on that!!!
Leto
@Tony Jay: and the Lord rested. Ahhhhhh-meeeeeeeeen!
Edit: also that could be a good Star Trek reference (Shaka, when the walls fell)
Gloria DryGarden
Mousebumples,
I’m in for Team Do The Work
I’ll read your posts more thoroughly, up above.
Meanwhile, raising my vibration by listening to rolling Stones on YouTube. I was looking for ” have you see her dressed in black, a line I’m sure I’ve heard them sing, but it appears I’m juxtaposing things. I do so want a song about dressed in black to go with/ celebrate the pix of someone dressed in black today, going to prison.
She’s a rainbow, very beautiful song. Uplifting and cheering, which seems needed.
TBone
@Gloria DryGarden:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HbzdeQKQNuU
Tony Jay
@Leto:
Hey, it was a good Star Trek reference. 😜
Getting dangerously close to typical ‘Portugal nick a late winner’ time.
VOR
@Eyeroller: I reiterate my view that Biden was surprised by both Trump’s Gish Gallop of lies and the fact the moderators did nothing. It caught him off guard and he needed time to adapt. People like Biden with a stutter need to choose words carefully and that was a hindrance too.
And as I’ve also said before, the Media has an innate bias for Trump. The White House press corps is convinced the leopards won’t eat their faces even through TFG literally calls them the enemy of the state. They loved his administration because it leaked like a sieve so stories came to them. And there was a fresh new atrocity, I mean story, every day to write about. No need to learn anything about policy because everything was subject to the whim of TFG or the dysfunctional members of his staff. Biden, and competence in general, is boring for them. Media management also loves TFG because he drives clicks. I think it was the head of CBS who said something like Trump was lousy for the country but great for CBS.
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah: That sums things up accurately.
eversor
@stinger:
We did it in 2016. We can do it again!
Baud
@eversor:
Heh. No, we’re talking about the real world here, not some Bernie Bro conspiracy theory.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@stinger:
I have no idea. What inchoate thoughts floating thru my head when I typed that was 2016 and how Biden seemingly stepped aside in order to clear the field for Clinton.
Yeah, there were 4 other “major” candidates but none of them had any close ties to the Obama WH the way Biden and Clinton did.
Thus, given some of the likely Dem candidates and their current status within the Biden WH, I’d expect something similar to occur and primary contenders not also be major players in the current administration the way Harris and Pete are. WTF knows. :)
Heh heh, let’s win in November first, then worry about how the next nominee ultimately comes out of the scrum.
Leto
@Tony Jay: so we’re down to the PK’s. I really like the Slovenian keeper. I hope that they can pull this off.
SiubhanDuinne
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Not sure they could, unless one of them moves to another state. But I’d love that energy!
Personally, I’ve been dreaming of a Harris-Buttigieg ticket in 2028. Bonus: we’d get to have both a First Gentleman and a Second Gentleman! How awesome would that be?
Tony Jay
@Leto:
Arse. Ronaldo and fucking Bruno score theirs, Slovenia have their first two saved.
Looks like that’s it.
Mike E
@Splitting Image: it’s been a clarifying moment, to be sure. If it wasn’t apparent before, you know to a near certain extent who are our allies and who aren’t.
LanceThruster
Is “nothing we can do to influence the decision making going on” a good thing, and is expressing a contrary opinion of any sort being “part of the problem”? The Emperor’s New Clothes comes to mind.
dc
We need to win this election (Pres., House and Senate), expand the Supreme Court, and pass specific legislation regulating explicitly the ethical (or lack thereof) behavior of SC justices. We have to meet this fight head on with our actions. For my part, I’ll be donating to the local Dems, to local grassroots get out the vote organizations and to the BJ organizations (I just donated to Four Directions Wisconsin) and canvassing locally. Be useful.
MisterForkbeard
So, I was travelling in Europe last week and the debate was over by the time I woke up in the morning. Saw some “Joe Biden is very old, it came off very badly and the moderators let Trump say whatever he wanted without pushback”, saw the panic forming, and just stopping paying attention.
It looks a lot like Biden had a very bad day due to a cold and some meds and it happened at the wrong time. He’s been out since and doing well, but no one wants to care.
I just donated to the campaign and I’m not going to pay a lot of attention for bit. Just waiting for the now-standard freakout to fade a bit.
Leto
@SiubhanDuinne: that’s my hope as well for the top of the ticket. Two very accomplished people, as well as having quite a bit of youth on their side. Bonus First/Second Gentlemen to make all those bigots heads explode? Yes please!
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: My first hypothetical dream ticket in 2020 was Harris/O’Rourke. But Beto has been MIA for some time, and Buttigieg has really come to impress me. I could definitely get behind a MVP (now with more P and less V)/Secretary Pete ticket.
Eyeroller
@VOR: I would agree though I think they should have been prepared for that. When has Trump ever “debated”? Rambling and self-aggrandizing is all he has ever done. It should not have been a surprise. They may be acknowledging that now.
The Biden-is-old/Biden-is-senile narrative has been a constant drumbeat for four years. This played right into it.
There are also some good-faith supporters who panicked because they’ve had a pre-existing view that Biden was too old, and/or because they wanted and expected an easy knockout, and/or they project their attitudes onto others. Just discussing it with friends (even anonymous fake friends) may make the individual’s anxiety worse but doesn’t do any other harm.
It’s the media that is a problem. But they have ginned up some “crisis” for every Democratic candidate I can remember.
Leto
@Tony Jay: and there it is. Dammit. I really do hate Portugal.
cain
@Tony Jay: My brother and I argue a lot and we’re on the same time – but he tends to be on the bernie side, eg leftist economic politics.
He is absolutely panicked about the debate and was going down the doom hole. So we always argue about how you need to keep yourself calm – yes, I agree it’s bad. But changing candidates or anything else is stupid.
However, we do have 6 months to figure out that Chevron and the Immunity thing because those are horrible decisions and I think my biggest fear is that Dems do not act while they still have agency – we failed to act when we had Sinema and Manchin – I hope that now we can actually try to do something if we can what we have in this term.
Leto
@Tony Jay: oh, they face France on Friday; haha, lemme put my bi-corn on now! Sacre Bleu! Baguette! Omele du Fromage!
dc
@cain:
What can be done without both the House and the Senate?
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: No, this was not a manufactured controversy. People on this blog started spontaneously freaking out after the first minute and that was an unmediated response. I was left thankful that so many Jackals live in one or two story houses. Still, there might have been some sprains and bruises the next day from people throwing themselves off their decks. A lot of people were dismayed.
I took a different view of the consequences, but I have to say Joe Biden had a bad debate, at least the first 20 minutes. He improved as the debate progressed but as a friend put, Biden still didn’t get good contact on some fat pitches, and that was frustrating.
There was whole other response though, by elite media and political figures and some Democrats who follow them. That was like a stampede. While these people pride themselves on their brainy independence, they can be the dumbest of sheep when it comes to practical politics.
So I would say they manufactured that one themselves. Also, some of the people joining the stampede were cynical and opportunistic; bad faith actors.
Tony Jay
@Leto:
I can see them sliming their way past France, who apparently have developed a phobia about scoring actual goals.
Spain, however, should* violate them in ways that’ll make Ronaldo’s adam’s apple bobble about like a boxer’s punchball.
* Should. Which I guess now means a frustrating 0-0 and another Portuguese penalty snatch n’grab.
eversor
@Baud:
Except it wasn’t a theory. It actually happened. And it backfired.
The good thing about having a deep bench, which we do have, is that contested primaries make for good general elections. As our debates do not entail insults and dick jokes.
So even if someone doesn’t win they get a national stage. See mayor Pete. It also gives us a chance to pants assholes, see Warren destroying Bloombergs political future.
So yeah I’m looking forward to an actual primary. In 2028.
Heidi Mom
@Suzanne: He would. I’m wondering how the “he’s a carpetbagger who only moved there to run for Governor” issue might play out. Perhaps the fact that he moved to Chasten’s hometown, acknowledging that they would need the grandparents’ help in raising the kids they planned to have, would help persuade voters that the move wasn’t (solely) for political reasons. And then there’s the fact that he speaks Arabic! Also, for whatever it’s worth, Chasten recently made an appearance for Biden at a gay venue in Milwaukee–with Gov. Whitmer. I know very little about MI politics, but maybe an endorsement by the outgoing Gov. is not out of the realm of possibility.
Baud
@eversor:
I don’t respect it enough to discuss it. I just didn’t want to lie to go unanswered. That lie helped lead us down this dark path.
Suzanne
@Eyeroller: There’s also good-faith supporters — I.e. me — who really do try to discuss this stuff with family, friends, colleagues, etc….. and are genuinely hearing concern. I know quite a few of those “double haters”. Like, it may have been cynically started by the media, or a Russian bot, or GOP activists, or whatever….. but now it’s a real thing. It’s a meme, if you will.
We make fun of “but her emails!”, but it worked.
NotMax
May the angry ghost of Gerald Ford haunt Roberts for the rest of his natural life.
NotMax
@Leto
At least on today’s news, “Darmok, his middle fingers extended.”
Leto
@Tony Jay: possibly; but France understands how to control the ball, move it forward effectively, and create constant pressure in the box. They also have a good defense that doesn’t require 10 men. They can fix the scoring problem by punching the ball through the back of the net, via Ronaldo’s face. But I’m excited that we have some more good games coming up!
Leto
@NotMax: “Liberty, her eyes closed.”
Heidi Mom
@SiubhanDuinne: Very awesome! And since Doug Emhoff and Chasten B. are already friends, it would probably come as a big relief to the former to know that he’ll have help in the trailblazing department.
Eyeroller
@Geminid: Many people had extremely high expectations and were devastated when they weren’t met. Some evidence suggests the “normies” were not so affected, because our side listened only to Biden and they listened to both. The media firestorm could be a much bigger problem. But as I said above, somehow the media has managed to manufacture a crisis for every Democratic Presidential candidate for a long time now. But not for Republicans. Strange, isn’t it.
Baud
@Suzanne:
From what I recall, one reason But Her Emails worked is that a lot of Dems bought into into it. That’s our problem IMHO. Too many of us are manipulable.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m with you. The debate is a distraction from the damage being done by this imperial court. I wonder if the six Catholics on the court relish the thought that they are more powerful than the Pope. Six people were able to take a wrecking ball to our democracy and way of life. Six people. Those six people have ruled that one person can be the most powerful criminal in the world and they can’t be prosecuted.
The Imperial Court has taken control of our country and Democrats are obsessed with kneecapping Biden because…
Nuts.
Suzanne
@Baud:
Absolutely.
But we have to win elections with the electorate that we have, not the electorate we wish we had.
Eyeroller
@Baud: It was all that “clouds and shadows” bullshit. People truly often do not know when they are being manipulated. Few people are deep consumers of media; they just read headlines and maybe the first paragraph or two. (That’s why “burying the lede” is a thing.). I saw word clouds of what people associated with Hillary and EMAILS hugely dominated. It was more evenly distributed among bad things for Trump. Emails emails emails. Senile senile senile. It has an effect.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Sure. But the question is how do we succeed at that. In my opinion, it starts with our having confidence ourselves. If we don’t have that, nothing else will work.
Leto
@Baud: I guess that’s why I’m pushing back so hard on this. Stop it before it even starts to gain traction. Acknowledge that he had a bad 30 mins, but also recognize that the next 60 were good. And also repeat that he’s been very, very good for the past 3 years. Don’t let yourself, or others, spin out of control. We took a hit, but pick yourself back up, dust off, keep moving forward.
bluefoot
@Spanky: I know, but it’s such and insane nihilistic point of view and way to act.
Dismantle the regulatory infrastructure of the federal bureaucracy? Create a de facto military dictatorship? There is only downside long term. It’s hard for me to get my head around the fact that the MSM persists in this.
Granted, a friend told me the other night that as a well-off straight white male, he thinks he will be okay no matter what. (He should know better, he was a youth in the USSR.)
Tony Jay
@cain:
I mean me, I’d go big on “vote for us to restore the Supreme Court to Constitutional Order, to restore stolen rights to millions of Americans, and to restore the economic opportunity that decades of Republican mismanagement have squandered.” Really make the MAGAts defend their record of disaster.
But I’ve never won so much as a lucky dip, so what do I know?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Leto:
+1
Keep pushing.
Baud
@Leto:
Yeah, I agree with that too. Can’t let something become settled understanding.
Tony Jay
@Leto:
I have France in the work sweep, so yes, all of this. Down with fatalism, Allons-Y!!
Eyeroller
@Baud: As we discussed in earlier threads, if Joe were a Republican, every Republican with a platform would be out there saying “Joe had a cold and had taken some cold medications. He has a stutter. He stumbled for the first 20 minutes and then he recovered and did fine for the rest of it. I’ve talked to him and he’s fine.” Instead we have Democrats, most anonymous but some on the record, running to the media to scream about how Joe Must Go. It disgusts me.
Suzanne
@Baud: Well, that’s what media strategy is really for. Find out what the electorate’s concerns are, identify a hole in the market or another way to differentiate oneself, craft an image or “personal brand”, and communicate it, over and over and over (and over and over again). Find ways to communicate that play to your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. Build that credibility.
ETA: I think Biden’s biggest strengths are that he’s funny and charming and empathetic. People really like that guy.
Baud
@Eyeroller:
Right. The Internet keeps telling Dems to “go low” like Republican but then doesn’t want to act like Republicans when it comes to spreading positive talking points.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Media strategy should be confident too, but that doesn’t remove our responsibility to be the same. We’re not undecideds. We know what we want people to do.
Eyeroller
@Baud: That’s not even going low!! It’s just not kneecapping your candidate!! Somebody called them “Tonya Harding Democrats” and I think that’s very apt.
Barbara
Just donated.
Kayla Rudbek
@Omnes Omnibus: yes, I am absolutely infuriated with the Seditious Six as well, and I think they are much more dangerous for our democracy. I have previously sworn the oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and I was never released from that oath.
suzanne
@Baud:
Agree. But all of us kind of spiritually “take the lead” from the candidate’s crafting the theory of the case. When I actively canvassed, I tried to do all of that stuff I listed above kind of in miniature. The better campaigns prepped me with a variety of strong talking points. The better candidates came out frequently to connect with volunteers.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Eyeroller:
Yup. Look at the nonstop disaster that is the Republican candidate for the highest office in our nation. Republicans excuse one disaster after another of his every single day and then go out in force to put him in office. The Republican voters are a backing force to reckon with and the Tonya Harding members of the Democratic party are ready to abandon Biden over nothing.
Fucking kneecapping Democrats. Fuck’em.
Joy in FL
Donated. I’m glad we are doing this right now. It doesn’t fix the horror, but it is a good thing to do.
Ben Wikler’s tweets were awesome. I only go on Twitter now to like and retweet stuff from BJ posts.
Hirudo
Just donated $100 to Four Directions.
zhena gogolia
@Suzanne: IT WORKED BECAUSE PEOPLE KEPT REPEATING IT
Torrey
I’m on team “step down and let younger folks who can actually do the job take over.” By which I mean Jake Tapper, Wolf Blitzer, Dana Bash, Chris Jansing, John Bremer, and the entire “I still call myself a journalist, but my days practicing that profession are long gone; what I really am is a TV star and professional opinionator” crew need to retire to their second (or third) vacation homes and get replaced by graduating seniors from literally any decent journalism school in this country. The improvement in American journalism would be overwhelming. And it’s good business: the new folks doing the job would actually be worth the (no longer inflated) salaries. If the same could happen to the entire commentariat at Fox news, it would be even better, of course.
As for Biden, I’ll quote Aristotle on rhetoric: “woe to him who speaks first,” i.e., it is best to be the one to leave the last strong impression. If there has to be a weak showing, it is better to get Biden’s over with in the first debate. He now knows what to do. Democratic spokespersons can plan a strategy ahead of time. Debate specialists also have time to figure out how to handle Trump’s stream of lies. Second debate, closer to the election, will be the one more people pay attention to, and it should be better for Biden, worse for Trump and his handlers, who can’t have learned anything from this debate.
Michael Bersin
@VOR:
Bingo!
TooManyJens
I’m going to have some free time when my kid goes off to college and I’ve been looking around at key states with an eye toward maybe just going and living there for a couple of months to help out. Wisconsin and Michigan would be the closest, but I’m also thinking about Montana. I’m worried Dems are giving up on Tester’s Senate seat. Republicans are already polling and hiring paid canvassers in Montana, and Democrats aren’t. I know it’s a bright red state but it’s not like there are a lot of seats Dems could flip to make up for it. Seems worth trying to keep it.
zhena gogolia
@Torrey: Thank you.
Juju
@Eyeroller: I had heard of sundownig and had a vague idea of what it meant, but it took sundowning experiences with my mother to have a really good idea of what sundowning actually is, and Trump’s behavior resembles my mother’s behavior when it gets late in the day. My mother can repeat the same things over and over in perfect fluency, though sometimes she has a slur. The slur seems to happen when she’s just lost what she was talking and thinking about and then she just stops talking until whatever repeating idea pops in to her head. My mother has a circulatory related form of dementia. It is not Alzheimer’s. She knows who she is and can remember things from her childhood fluently and important things from adulthood through 40-55, or 60, depending on time of day. She loses current events. She just asked me when we’re going home. The house she wants to go home to is the one we lived in when she was just under 40.
suzanne
@zhena gogolia: Yes, people kept repeating it. People kept repeating it because it felt vaguely true to them, which is bullshit, but that’s literally imagecraft. Vibes matter. I hope Biden’s team on incredibly high-earning media people are strategizing right now on how to craft better vibes.
zhena gogolia
@suzanne: Please look in the mirror. You are the one repeating it.
Mousebumples
@Gloria DryGarden: welcome to the team!
@dc: yes! I’m with you!
suzanne
@zhena gogolia: I’m not repeating shit. I didn’t create this issue. I’m saying that Joe should recognize that he’s got an image problem — there is data to demonstrate that — and he should play to his strengths to counteract it.
No one on Balloon Juice lost the election for Hillary Clinton. Stop.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I almost added “paging Omnes” in the post! :-)
Geminid
@Eyeroller: I can’t say how big a problem the media firestorm will be. But I keep in mind that a lot of people don’t like “the Media” and are disinclined to follow their lead.
I thought about that in the aftermath pf the US evacuation from Afghanistan, when journalists hectored the President about an operation that (tragically) could have gone better but could also have gone much, much worse. They didn’t like his defense of our military, so the headlines read, “A Defiant Biden….”
These journalists and their editors said “Defiant” like it was a bad thing, because he was defying them. But “Defiant” is often seen as a good quality and I think especially so in the context of defying “the Media.” So I don’t think those headlines hit the way the editors thought they would.
Eyeroller
@Juju: Sundowning: “During this time the person may become intensely distressed, agitated and have hallucinations or delusions. This may continue into the night, making it hard for them to get enough sleep.”
Does this sound like “stumbled over words at a debate”? “Didn’t offer as strong a support of abortion as a supporter would have liked”?
And with that, I’ll look at newer threads.
Michael Bersin
I ran Tamarian through a Yoda translator:
“Shaka, when the walls fell. Hmmmmmm.”
I think I’m on to something…
WaterGirl
@Baud: You’re not leaving us for good, are you? Are you taking a trip?
WaterGirl
@TooManyJens: So nice to see your nym!
eclare
@Leto:
I watched FRA BEL and was happy Les Bleus won.
TooManyJens
@Torrey: My greatest consolation in all this is that the electorate will have four months to forget this debate ever happened. Yeah, it allows the Republicans and media (but I repeat myself) another excuse to trot out their “Biden is incompetent” narratives but they were going to do that anyway.
The way Dems are lining up to undermine their own candidate is infuriating and sad. Though also, unfortunately, not new. I really do fucking hate this party sometimes.
TooManyJens
@WaterGirl: Thanks! I keep trying to come back but then getting busy and leaving again for a while. Hopefully this time it’ll stick.
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay:
The truth of that left me in tears.
kalakal
In a previous thread mention was made the Democrat candidates were outpolling Biden by 5 or 6% and that the problem was Biden not the Democrats
What I can’t envisage is that come November people are going to vote Democrat down ticket but for TFG or abstain on the presidential box.
We are almost certain to win the House, the Senate will be tough, and I think Biden will beat TFG. Dobbs is pure poison for the GQP
In a sense it’s easy for me to ignore the msm, I spent decades with the British version and hence have no time for the inane vapourings of self-important twits on TV and in the press. No matter what label they apply to themselves, they’re nearly all in the tank for the GQP/Tories.
They’re not the news, they’re not the public, and and they don’t get to decide who will be president. I think their prognostications about November will be as accurate as they were about the ‘Red Tsunami’.
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: Yes!
When I worked a the University, whenever the higher ups would make some bullshit move, I would sort through the giant IT cabinet that was in the hallway.
It was funny to then be at a gathering with my two sisters and discover that all 3 of us do the same thing.
I call it “when the going gets though, the tough start organizing.”
It really does help. I couldn’t control an idiot Dean of the College, but I could bend all the parts and pieces and cables to my will. It didn’t directly help the situation, but it was an outlet for my frustration
edit: Ha! Just after I pressed Post Comment, I got up to grab a couple of ingredients to bring them to room temperature for the quiche i am making, and I realized that I had cleaned out the refrigerator and organized everything in it over the weekend. Am I predictable, or what?
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Thank you for sharing that. I will miss you in the comments, and I will be grateful whenever you poke your head up. 💕
WaterGirl
@Splitting Image: The black candidate governor is a batshit crazy out and proud fascist – somehow the fact that he’s black makes it even more unforgivable.
Speaking of North Carolina, in addition to Phase II of our support for the NC Black Alliance, we are also looking at some other groups that are right up our alley.
And we’ve asked the NC Black Alliance peeps for recommendations for pivotal down-ballot candidates to support, that can also turn the election our way.
So excited that we have teamed up with these folks.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: On the other hand Rep. Jeff Jaxkson, the Democrat running for Attorney General, is a very strong candidate I think..
WaterGirl
@TooManyJens:
Dems are definitely not giving up on Tester’s Senate seat.
WaterGirl
@TooManyJens: Hope so!
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Nor ought they. He’s practically Montana incarnate.
like a metaphor
@Gloria DryGarden: here ya go She’s a rainbow