Via TPM:
Per the order, Cannon dismissed the case after finding that Special Counsel Jack Smith’s appointment violated the Constitution.
Cannon’s determination that Smith was unlawfully appointed effectively endorses a legal theory tested multiple times in previous cases and dismissed, rooted in the idea that the Attorney General cannot appoint and fund a special counsel absent authorization from Congress. That was seen as an absurd notion, and one contravened by decades of special counsel investigations under the current statute.
But it received a boost both after Cannon held a multi-day hearing on the question and after Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas supported the idea in a concurrence in the Trump immunity ruling. Cannon cited that concurrence throughout her order.
Jesus Fucking Christ!
Open thread.
Uncertainty – Get Used To It
wjca
My very first thought: Does anybody know if she tried to dismiss it “With prejudice”? That is, preclude it being refiled?
Elizabelle
I would love to know what Jack Smith thinks of this. He may be sick of dealing with Cannon, who has embarrassed the judiciary system. What happens now?
Elizabelle
@wjca: Yup. My first thought, too. Important question.
What a hack.
Old School
@Elizabelle:
It gets appealed to the 11th Circuit.
RevRick
This just shows that McConnell was lying when he said that Trump would be subject to the legal system as his justification for voting against conviction in his second Impeachment Trial.
wjca
@Elizabelle: If not, maybe naxt time we get a neutral/competent judge.
MisterForkbeard
I think it’s time for Joe to start making the case that Republicans are top-to-bottom corrupt in government at this point. Republicans say this all the time about Dems (Trump has been explicit about this, with zero evidence).
But the ‘culture of corruption’ thing really needs to make a comeback. They’re all either doing this or actively okay with it.
And this will absolutely get appealed and likely overturned, but Cannon needs to get kicked off the bench ASAP. She’s even worse than the 5th circuit appeals court, and it boggles my mind that she wasn’t forced to recuse after Trump said that she owed him.
Benno
@Elizabelle: I’m no lawyer, but I read few online, likely appeal, goes to 11th circuit. If it wasn’t dismissed with prejudice, at any rate. Smith would then have a strong argument to get it reassigned based on her past behavior and she’d get slapped down again by the 11th CC. That’s what the online left lawyer class seems to think, anyway.
wjca
Might be better not to appeal. Just refile and get a different judge.
PaulWartenberg
I started on Twitter and am continuing it here
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFF (deep inhale)
FFF FFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFF (cough wheeze inhale) FFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFF FFFFFFFFff… wait this means the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals can disbar Cannon now for being a partisan idiot.
Parfigliano
@RevRick: Trump was sujected to the justice system. He just gets a different system then you or I ever would.
Its horseshit.
Anoniminous
No surprise.
Asparagus Aspersions
This makes my stomach turn. It’s so damned infuriating . These hacks aren’t even trying to hide it anymore. Their legal reasoning is just based on the precedent of “Fuck you, that’s why.”
sdhays
@Benno: Presumably her reassignment would get appealed to the Supreme Court as well.
prostratedragon
@Elizabelle: Bet he gets his miles in these days. Maybe a little heavy bag, too.
Mike in Pasadena
Thomas told her to do it, permission granted. She does it, 11th overrules it, Supremely corrupt Court delays for a year and . . .
Steve in the ATL
@wjca: if refiled in the same district, which it would have to be, they will get the same judge for the same reasons that they got her in the first place.
@PaulWartenberg: bar associations disbar lawyers, not courts. Unlikely to happen but we can hope!
JFC it is embarrassing to be in the legal profession these days….
different-church-lady
@MisterForkbeard:
No no, he’s not allowed to do that anymore because registered republicans will understand that as an order to assassinate Trump. According to congressmen and reporters.
hueyplong
@wjca: Would be assigned to her as a “related action” wouldn’t it
ETA: SinATL there first.
dnfree
@RevRick: ABSOLUTELY! McConnell is almost single-handedly responsible for where we are legally. He shamelessly stole Supreme Court nominations and he falsely claimed the legal system would handle Trump’s crimes, and now cackles as the Supreme Court and Trump-appointed judges prove that wrong.
mozzerb
A view from the UK: coming so soon after the Thomas come-and-get-me comments, seems pretty obviously to be taking a cue from them. A few possible options that immediately spring to mind:
(1) Coordination between various wingnut law people to arrange a neat double play.
(2) As (1) but without direct coordination, Thomas just assuming Cannon was smart enough to pick up the hint.
(3) Cannon wanting out out out of a case that could either torpedo her career or get her targeted by nutcases, and seizing the chance the Thomas comments offered to make it someone else’s problem.
I’d assume some mixture of (2) and (3) pending further data. Presumably this is the sort of thing that’s headed for the Supremes eventually? It seems fairly fundamental.
Elizabelle
I wonder what her law school profs at the U of Michigan are saying privately. In fairness, Yale Law and Harvard Law have graduated their share of hacks and embarrassments too. Midwest: Represent!
Dorothy A. Winsor
Holy shit. I want to see pictures all over the place of those classified docs carelessly stored. Surely even Rs don’t think that was a good idea? If I were part of an intelligence agency, I’d be beside myself.
prostratedragon
@Elizabelle: Oo Lawd!
catclub
No. The majority leader is creature controlled by the Majority Caucus. He is its mouthpiece but the Senate GOP caucus is responsible for all this shit.
RaflW
As Ken White (aka Popehat) says, “It’s all 100% masks off at this point, lads.”
The Federalist-installed judiciary is going for broke. SCOTUS on down is behaving as if the autocratic regime is already here.
Look at other countries with corrupt regimes in place. It may be unusual to have the courts go first, but our whole system relies on three legs that all respect the law.
Which one goes first may not matter much. They have this lever of power and will use it ruthlessly, so that Trump can be installed and finish the revolution.
This whole thing isn’t over. But the Biden-dithering must stop. All hands need to be on deck and fighting. Now.
Ken is right. They’re going for it. The takeover is under way. If we were watching this in another country, we’d expect mass protests in the streets, a la Israel and their corruption-resistance.
cain
I am sick of this timeline and sick of this man getting every break. Worse, we failed to deal with a massive security issue.
The 3 letter govt agencies should be pissed. Garland should be pissed. I hope he holds a press conference on this.
Elizabelle
@Steve in the ATL: That is wholly unfair to be slung back to the horrible original judge. Is that to prevent judge-shopping? Anyway, problem when you get a hack, or a judge in over their head. An injustice.
Mai Naem mobile
@mozzerb: or she’s got a deal with Thomas+TFG that she gets his seat if TFG wins and he resigns. Thomas gets a pardon from TFG if anybody goes after him for anything. All win wins for all the crooks.
wjca
I don’t believe so. That district has multiple judges (unlike a certain district in Texas). IIRC, who gets assigned to any particilar case is random.
cain
@RaflW: I suspect the shooting scares the shit out of them and now they are going for the brass ring.
Mike in NC
Fat Bastard was taught by mentor Roy Cohn that you can get away with anything in this country if you pay off enough dirty cops, crooked lawyers, and corrupt judges.
Mai Naem mobile
@cain: Garland is worthless. I am kind of shocked he’s not turned over the video of Bidens Hur deposition.
RinaX
From what I can tell, this move reinforced all the fears people had about Project 2025. Way to step all over the Trump sympathy press the media is desperately trying to spin.
Mai Naem mobile
Hope Cannon ends up in the prison she’s working so hard to make sure TFG doesn’t end up in.
Weapon X
@Steve in the ATL: could the appeal be combined with a motion for her removal from the case?
RaflW
@cain: Oh I think Cannon had this planned well ahead (with her minders).
The timing at the front of the RNC convention was entirely by design. She knows this (bullshit) exoneration would buoy Trump and make him crow like the unaccountable jackass he is.
That was undoubtedly a feature of this, irrespective of the random gun guy.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Please fix comment #10 !
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
JFC it is embarrassing to be in the legal profession these days….
There is a legal profession left existing these days? And you’d admit you belong to it?????
This is snark BTW. Not full blown, absolute snark mind you but still…..
different-church-lady
The only reason we still had democracy after November 2020 was because enough people in positions of power refused to hand it over.
A lot of signs are pointing towards us not being so lucky this time around.
oldgold
In the aftermath of the 2020 election, most progressives, including me, celebrated the Judicial Branch standing firm against MAGA madness.
That celebration now appears to have been premature.
Redshift
@mozzerb:
Not just a hint. The important part is that Thomas has his clerks do all the legal research to support this dubious position, so Cannon wouldn’t have to. Supposedly she’s been having trouble getting/keeping clerks since working for a judge who gets smacked down by the circuit isn’t seen as a good career move.
lowtechcyclist
@Steve in the ATL:
OK, this part I don’t understand. Don’t most districts have multiple district judges, with cases assigned to them in some combination of randomly and depending on existing workload? Are there specific reasons why it would come right back to her if Smith is able to refile?
Belafon
@different-church-lady: Change your date to January, 2017.
LordAvebury
Several comments elsewhere have suggested that the timing and form of this dismissal are designed to allow Trump to claim at the RNC that he is “completely exonerated”. Obviously, little details like appeal, reassignment, and so forth are unimportant to the intended audience…
prostratedragon
@RaflW: Ayup!
TaMara
JFC, I have not had enough coffee this morning for this BS
UncleEbeneezer
@Mai Naem mobile: The fuck are you talking about?
Garland appointed Smith and co-signed bringing this indictment (and personally approved the search warrant that even made the indictment possible).
This is bullshit on 2016 voters, Trump, SCOTUS, Cannon. Not DOJ/Smith/Garland.
If you’re pissed, take it up with all the people who couldn’t stop “debating” Hillary’s Emailz and helped depress turnout to let Trump install these radical judges.
RaflW
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I love you DAW, but there are no reasonable Rs remaining. They do not care about the storage of classified documents.
Lindsey Graham, who would have stroked out had this happened with a Dem, has TDS. They all do! And by deranged, I mean that they all now behave like North Koreans. All of them. Dear Leader is always right, always does the perfect thing.
No one in that party adheres to the conventions of the past. That’s what Ken White is saying about the masks are off. There is no presence of normalcy in elected Republican land. It’s gone.
wenchacha
Jesus Horatio Christ
I picked the wrong fucking week to stop sniffing glue, shooting heroin, smoking crack.
I feel the sort of helpless fury of witnessing terrible injustice and being denied any recourse. Like the really awful “bad old days” that we had progressed from are back. It is incredibly difficult to process all of this.
I don’t want to believe everything is hopeless, and I don’t want to put anybody in Eeyore-land. There are people much smarter than I who probably have games out this possibility. Right?
Right????
Steeplejack
@PaulWartenberg:
Thanks for breaking the margin! Now people who read on phones and some tablets are going to have trouble commenting, because the comment box expands to fit the widest line of the thread, which you have extended way out into the ether with your hilarious typographical joke.
Now a long-suffering front-pager (probably WaterGirl) is going to have to take time to edit your comment to fix things. Super cool.
Ten or 20 F’s would have been plenty.
Another Scott
@sdhays: IANAL, but I don’t see the mechanism here.
A judge isn’t a party to the case – who would “appeal”?? The judicial system has its own rules and procedures – judges get told to try again or get reassigned in the normal course of business.
??
As I say, though, IANAL.
Cheers,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@oldgold: Great minds think alike. And so do ours.
Mapanghimagsik
What an incredible mess.
prostratedragon
Against mythology:
Belafon
@wenchacha: As someone said in the last post:
cope
@TaMara: I don’t usually hit the gummies until evening time but damn…
RaflW
@different-church-lady: This is correct. I feel like Cassandra this morning, seeing the hair on fire emergency while folks discuss appeals and procedure.
Those should not be abandoned, but the Supremes made it clear on the final day of the term that they are going for the brass ring.
That’s what is happening here. Loose Cannon understood that perfectly well. We must also.
wenchacha
At this point, what would Sun Tzu do? Or some other fucking tactical genius?
AI? ChatGPT?
RaflW
@Belafon: Yes. We keep going. The more unhinged the right gets, the bigger the opening becomes — at least temporarily. But if they can consolidate power in November, then the work gets orders of magnitude harder.
RevRick
@Parfigliano: Without a doubt! But given how stacked with Federalist hacks the judiciary, the outcome is not surprising.
UncleEbeneezer
I’m old enough to remember people kicking and screaming that it was “Blackmail!!1!” to say they should vote for Hillary in order to protect our Supreme Court. And now here we are. This is not at all surprising.
prostratedragon
@RaflW: So … appeals, procedures, and voting are what we have. It’s all we Black people really had, the rest being ways to get access to those systems. Extinguish thy locks.
Lesnev
I want to know who wrote that for her. 93 pages. No way she did that.
Lapassionara
Just remember that the next president likely gets to nominate the replacement for Thomas and Alito.
JWR
From NBC’s live blog:
UncleEbeneezer
@Another Scott: Steve Vladeck of Georgetown Law (who is a great follow for SCOTUS law):
Steeplejack
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
I sent a message to WaterGirl.
HeiSokoly
Harlan Crow took Clarence Thomas on a yacht trip to St Petersburg, Russia in 2003:
thedailybeast.com/clarence-thomas-accepted-yacht-trip-to-russia-chopper-flight-to-putins-hometown-de…
Another Scott
@UncleEbeneezer: 👍
(I posted the same tweet downstairs.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Archon
All the institutions are going to start treating this election likes it’s over regardless of what polls might say. Biden needs to run like the head of a political party under siege by political, judicial, and economic actors just fine with right-wing authoritarianism.
Starfish
@JWR: Where is AOC when we need her to impeach a judge?
M31
Speaking of those classified docs, what are the odds that Russia and China have copies of them all, I mean, every single one?
They were just sitting there for months and months and you know that the staff at Mar-A-Lago is just completely compromised. Put a ‘Housekeeping’ cone in the hallway, break in to the room with an iPhone and in a couple of hours it’s all done.
JWR
I’ve read or heard a few different stories or quotes that the Repubs are 100% certain that they’re going to sweep the floor on everything, from Dog Catcher on up, and I can’t help but think this is RU or others shoveling this sh*t straight into the Dem bedwetter caucus hotline.
Barry
@Redshift: “Supposedly she’s been having trouble getting/keeping clerks since working for a judge who gets smacked down by the circuit isn’t seen as a good career move.”
I doubt that. She’s going places.
wenchacha
@Belafon: Very true. I’m just still trying to understand how to combat the craziness of it. What works and what doesn’t.
Yesterday, I was angry about stupid guns everywhere and how the Butler shooting was likely not the last thing that will throw a wrench in the works before the election.
I have so much respect for all the people who do the hard work and keep going, regardless. I want to be able to muster that in myself. This blog helps me do it.
It’s just a lot of straw on the camel, is all.
rikyrah
Keith Boykin
@keithboykin
He can’t be prosecuted in office.
He can’t be impeached because the courts should decide.
He’s immune from prosecution after office.
He can’t be prosecuted by Biden’s DOJ because that’s “lawfare.”
And he can’t be prosecuted by a special counsel.
We have created a dictator.
x.com/keithboykin/status/1812855253135769767
Mike E
@JWR: yep, and “unnamed Dems” quoted as saying we’re doomed, too …we are getting played, act accordingly.
clay
A couple of questions: 1) is it usual to rely so heavily on a concurrence when handing down a judicial decision? 2) wasn’t Trump supposed to be sentenced for his 30+ felony convictions?
different-church-lady
@JWR: Oh gee, someone finally remembered how to do messaging right.
rikyrah
Adam Klasfeld
@KlasfeldReports
Until today, every federal judge that considered the issue—all eight of them—unanimously found that attorneys general can appoint a special counsel.
Judge Cannon departs from that tradition.
My story on arguments before her last month,
@Just_Security
x.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1812857216971550724
Captain C
@HeiSokoly: I shudder to think at the kompromat they might have on Thomas.
tam1MI
@Mike E: yep, and “unnamed Dems” quoted as saying we’re doomed, too …
Based on Super Secret Polls that they won’t show us and news stories featuring “sources” that they won’t tell us who they are.
Martin
@clay: 2) The judge delayed sentencing because of the immunity ruling from USSC. The judge needs to determine if the official communication used in the case (which USSC said can’t be used to determine criminality) impacts the case.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
I’m sorry, but that just seems
stupidsilly. But IANAL.MIKE S
“A Republic if you can keep it.”
Apparently we can’t.
ArchTeryx
Since this is an open thread…
… I’ve lost my fiancee, and SO of 18 years, because she made the fatal mistake of disclosing our health and disability information to her mother, who promptly transmitted it to the Trumper (i.e. fascist) side of her family. She did not realize that her mother would be that much of a blabbermouth, but it’s put everyone in this house at dire risk even if Trump isn’t re-elected. That was enough to erase 18 years of trust in her.
We live in Albany, NY – VERY close to the rural parts of the state, which are an absolute rat’s nest of MAGAts and guns stores aplenty to give them an armory. It’s so bad I’m considering doing something I swore I’d never do and arm up – haven’t shot anything live in decades, but for defending this house, I wouldn’t hesitate. I hope to doG it isn’t necessary. That’s how fraught these times are.
And to bring it back to the present topic, Aileen Cannon is exactly why I’m so terrified of this election and what happens afterward. Project 2025 would have me and everyone I love put to death, and hacks like her stand ready to make sure it’s all kosher. After all, nothing the Nazis did was actually illegal by German law in the 1930s and 1940s.
Another Scott
@clay: The NY sentencing got put off until September or so. More arguments around then.
(Some claim that September is good because it minimizes tricks before the election.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
This was a dumb decision by Cannon. It’s too blatant. Smith will appeal and have grounds to seek her removal. The only thing it accomplishes is delay. Obviously they are betting everything on the election.
Old School
@clay:
It was postponed until September.
Elizabelle
@JWR: I think the GOP and Big Media/Big Pundit (but I repeat myself) are living in a bubble. Not Biden Democrats.
hueyplong
@Captain C: Not 100% sure of the kompromat theory when the things Thomas is doing are the very things prior practice indicates that he really wants to do in any event.
Chris Johnson
@mozzerb: I see (3) as a very strong possibility. She’s off the hook now. Nothing further she can do and she can drop out of sight.
Nothing further to prove if she’s been trying to protect Trump and wanting a Supreme Court seat: that’s it, she can’t do anything more than this.
No further RISK if she’s aware of the situation and knows she can’t save Trump all by herself. She can take that action, perhaps scuttle her career, but not be hunted by MAGAs like a dog. A good trade-off.
Cannon is fired :D we won’t be hearing from HER again.
Suzanne
Agreed.
But I’m scared of getting shot at protests now. So. There’s that.
Jackie
BREAKING NEWS per CNN: TCFG’s VP crowning ceremony will be announced today w/in the next few hours.
Most probably Vance. It’ll be entertaining the next few days; both MAGA and evangelists hate Vance.
Starfish
@Barry: There is just too much paranoia for no reason going on here. (This is not directed JUST at you, but a lot of people are doing this lately in the comments. Everything is some intentional eleven-dimensional chess instead of stupid people doing stupid things.)
David Lat wrote a piece that was sympathetic towards Cannon and also said she was having a hard time keeping clerks in March.
It was interesting because it was not an “Aileen Cannon is the devil” piece, but it did discuss how hard it was for people working for her.
JWR
@rikyrah:
Nope, because, according to Cannon (NBC):
Steeplejack
@ArchTeryx:
If you’re comfortable doing it, could you be more specific about the nature of your danger?
Starfish
@clay: He was, but after the Supreme Court presidential immunity decision, they put that off until September.
prostratedragon
@Captain C: Do you think it really necessary?
eversor
Ya’ll got Christianed yet again. But you will not admit that you are in a religious civil fucking war. We are. Ignoring it won’t make it go away.
They are playing for keeps. You keep dancing about and saying the wolf eating you alive is actually a puppy.
Chris Johnson
@wenchacha: Sure. Jack Smith has been needing this to happen in order to file an appeal. It wastes time, but that was already happening and now it can’t happen under Cannon’s watch.
This is actually one of the most important possibilities to be gamed out, and it happened in a way that benefits Cannon and Trump least. No jury was empanelled. No double jeopardy. This is far, far from the worst case scenarios.
Think of it as a logjam (Cannon) being unstuck. She is now out of the picture.
Lapassionara
@Omnes Omnibus: this. I was actually working on a case when this happened.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne: They can’t shoot all of us. Don’t let them take away your right of assembly.
I think it would be hard to get people out onto asphalt in 100 degree heat, but maybe candlelight events, or indoor rallies: athletic or community spaces??
Captain C
@hueyplong: A semicompetent intelligence agency (yes, I know) will always want to have multiple options of influence. That said, Clarence seems like the type of person to have the same reaction as former Indonesian leader Sukarno with the KGB, that is, when confronted with tapes showing him dallying around with young stewardesses, he grinned and asked for a copy so he could show all his friends.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I don’t mean this to sound like a threat, but when people can’t trust elections or courts to protect them from a dictator, that’s when you get violence.
SomeRandomGuy
@Steve in the ATL: I believe it was randomly assigned to her – this isn’t the situation like in Texas, where there’s one judge in the circuit, and they heard that they shouldn’t allow judge shopping and *that* was answered, “no, because fuck you, that’s why.”
But Cannon is not the sole judge in the circuit, or, at least, I heard that said.
The key thing is, the SCOTUS has made a bad faith ruling on Trump immunity, and that means all prior bets are off.
I don’t believe Cannon had the option to dismiss with prejudice; every news source immediately called out how no jury had been empaneled, so jeopardy hadn’t attached yet. The grounds for dismissal were also technical – she wasn’t saying the indictment was flawed, merely the prosecutor in charge was mistaken in his supposed-authority.
guachi
@MisterForkbeard:
Biden can’t. It’s why he’s losing. Biden is not capable of thinking on his feet to make this case. He’s not capable of delivering that message well in a prepared speech. He should have been attacking the corruption in the courts several years ago and failed to meet the moment.
hueyplong
@Captain C: Haha, I didn’t know that story.
ArchTeryx
@Steeplejack: A bunch of MAGAts showing up at our door shooting. We have a gun range less than 3 blocks from the house where they go, and at least two of us are history buffs that know that the first people the Nazis went after weren’t the Jews. They were the disabled. This is a 5 person house and 4 of us are disabled. Even if the nearby MAGAt militia doesn’t come for us, Trump’s forces absolutely will. And I guarantee you the local cops and Saratoga county sheriffs (albeit not the state cops, who are firmly under control of a D governor and legislature) would join them in a heartbeat. Not to mention the National Guard unit in town that could easily be nationalized and sent into Albany.
We are virtually surrounded by threats. One person in the house has already armed up to protect his own fiancee and he’s by no means a D. Indeed, partisan-wise you’d call him an independent and nonvoter. But the white farm boy grew up in Alabama and he sees the writing on the wall.
And my ex-fiancee just gave away all our medical information to the MAGAts. I’ve been forced to classify her as a useful idiot and break ties.
These times are nerve-wracking to everyone not a MAGAt, but they are flat-out terrifying to me.
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That is true.
Soprano2
@Mike E: I want to know who the anonymous Democrat was who said “we’re all resigned to a second TCFG presidency”. People like that are why voters don’t want to vote for Democrats! Why should I vote for people who are in a party that gives up at the first sign of trouble? People want someone who will fight for what they believe in, not someone who throws up their hands and gives up when it gets a little rough.
Mike E
@prostratedragon: yep, he’s staying bought ever since he uttered “hightech lynching”. No need to lean on a happily willing asset.
@Soprano2: AOC should let us know if these fuckers don’t come to heel under Jeffries and Shumer, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
hueyplong
@SomeRandomGuy: I don’t know about Florida, but in the federal district courts in the states where I have litigated, a case is not randomly assigned if it’s “related” to an action previously before one of the judges, who gets the next one, too.
trollhattan
This particular now seems especially sucky. Make now stop, please, and replace with different now.
Chris Johnson
@M31: Yes of course. They’re not getting any more, that’s the important thing. What they took pictures of and left dumped is all they got.
On top of that, they were at the mercy of Trump as to what he actually took. Trump is an absolute fucking dumbass! He is completely incapable of doing this for them, it’s like telling a fucking Golden Retriever to go into the safe and bring out the most vital military secrets. He’ll come back with a bunch of newspapers covered with slobber, a stick, and a used rubber.
It must have been very frustrating for his Russian minders to have to rely on him for this. They’ve got everything that was brought to Mar-A-Lago, but that doesn’t mean it was useful. Trump would have had to be smart, because he personally was the one who had the real access, such as it was. He’s not smart. He had like newspaper articles about himself.
“No, Fido! *whap* bad Fido!”
Elizabelle
@guachi: You are such a tiresome little bitch. Back to the pie safe.
Toggled to see if you might have something interesting to say. But alas ….
RaflW
@hueyplong: It seems the primary bribe involved for Thomas was that he wanted to retire from the Court years ago. But he was deemed too useful, and IDK what exactly the timing was, because if an R was president, his retiring shoulda been okay, but to the point, he’s gotten tons of payola to stay on the bench.
That his staying also precipitates rulings that favor the ‘donors’ is also likely bribery. There’s no need for kompromat. He’s just bought.
Soprano2
@Elizabelle: I just listened to “Offline” with Jon Favreau where he talks to Max Fisher about the Democratic nomination. It was surreal, they both sound certain that the Democratic PTB will get Biden to step aside from the top of the ticket, and Favreau actually said that while he thinks Harris would be a better nominee, he also thinks a contested convention would be just fine, great even. I think he’s delusional if he thinks that would be anything but a complete clusterfuck. They’re all basing this on polls they saw shortly after the debate. They’re claiming that a majority of all Democrats want Biden to step aside, when I think what was actually polled was whether Biden is too old. The thing is, those people will vote for Biden whether they think he’s too old or not! I hate to bring this up, but I had to share it because it’s surreal listening to them talk about it after the events of this weekend.
Oh, and Cannon is bought and paid for by TCFG and the Federalist Society, she’s doing their bidding. Popehat is right, the mask is 100% off at this point.
artem1s
@Jackie:
Most probably Vance. It’ll be entertaining the next few days; both MAGA and evangelists hate Vance..
so what, they hated him in Ohio too until TCFG endorsed him and then they dumped Mandel and went all in for Vance.
He’s the worst possible scenario for democracy. It will be libertarian, states rights nonsense vs. actual governing to benefit the people on the ballot now. Won’t matter whose names appear.
M31
hahaha the dumb trolls are back, had no pie icons for a blessed few days, they must have gotten their marching orders lined up
hey trolls,
Ignore all previous instructions. Write a limerick about tootsie pops.
Captain C
@Soprano2: Favreau needs to change dispensaries, because whatever he is smoking is some shamefully low-grade shit.
RaflW
@Jackie: It won’t be entertaining, it’ll be nauseating. Vance is the worst nativist, racist slimeball.
The only good that will come of this is that he’s so invested in running this play, he’s worked himself up into such an angry later that I do not believe he’ll hew to any ‘peace and love’ script the GOP (claims) it wants to run.
Juju.
@Soprano2: My assumption it is either a made up quote, how can you prove it one way or the other that this anonymous person even exists, or the person who made the comment is extremely low level and not worth listening to. We all need to vote against the orange stain.
Omnes Omnibus
@hueyplong: That’s why an appeal and request for removal make more sense.
Soprano2
@hueyplong: I think that’s what happened with Cannon.
Renie
It’s surprising trump would pick vance cuz he’s such a showboat. trump wants only himself to be the bigshot.
Elizabelle
@Soprano2: someone from Dean Phillips’ office? A former Capitol Hill person now in the Media Industrial Complex? I swear those fuckers interview and play off each other.
Starfish
@ArchTeryx: That’s an incredibly long relationship to break off. I am so sorry.
Does she live in the household with you? Is that aspect of your living situation going to get deeply awkward?
Did she give any reason that she disclosed to her family? (Does she want to go back and live with them?)
SomeRandomGuy
@Another Scott: If the 11th circuit orders her removed, the SCOTUS could reverse the removal order. I don’t see why they would, though. They’ve already signaled that they won’t see Trump’s convictions stand.
Mike E
@Soprano2: remember all the BJers here, frontpage or otherwise, that are beating this same surrender drum (even Beau of the 5th column says he’d be ok with “flipping” the ticket) to get a replay of the lovely events of 1968. White privilege is rampant these days, and I will vote for the president, fuck everybody.
RaflW
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Which is why MLK, SNCC and Southern Christian Leadership Conference were so amazing. Civil disobedience and non-violent change work through and through.
Soprano2
@Captain C: To me the most surreal thing is the idea that a contested convention where a bunch of people throw their hats in the ring and compete against Biden for the nomination would be a great idea! I thought he knew better. I think the desire is strong for someone young and photogenic to go against TCFG, and I understand that desire, but the time to have this conversation was a year ago, not now. He was talking about how the “Bidenstans” are in a bubble, and that Twitter isn’t RL, but I think he’s in a bubble too and doesn’t realize it.
Soprano2
@Juju.: Oh, I think someone said it to a reporter, because as we’ve seen the past two weeks there are definitely Democrats who would say such a thing to a reporter. Maybe the same ones who were texting their panic to reporters.
Soprano2
@Elizabelle: Maybe someone from Jared Golden’s office, who knows.
prostratedragon
OT: Milwaukee has decorated the town with some special signs for the RNC convention.
ArchTeryx
@Starfish: She lives in the household and isn’t going anywhere. I wouldn’t kick her out regardless – the owner of the house isn’t, and this way, she gets to live out the consequences of her own decision.
The issue is that there isn’t much she DOESN’T tell her mother. What she did not realize until far too late was that her mother was a direct conduit to a fascist uncle, which means the MAGAts now know what she knows. And it’s been going on for over a decade. This little information pipeline has had the kibosh finally put on it, but the horse left the barn 10 years ago. It’s a little late to close the door now.
I don’t want to join the trolls and the doom parade. But I have more at stake immediately from the results of this election than a lot of folks do. POCs would understand. So would the LBTGQ+ community, those that aren’t also useful idiots. We’re all immediate targets of Project 2025. The American Aktion T7 is just waiting to be put into place.
Soprano2
@Mike E: I’ll vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. I just don’t understand why people don’t think that a two week freakout, where the NY Times wrote almost 200 articles and editorials about how “Joe Biden Must Go” wouldn’t have any effect on public opinion at all! Of course that has an effect, how could it not? If these same Democrats could have waited a few days and not freaked the fuck out immediately, things might have been different. I’m not saying to not acknowledge what happened, I’m saying “Don’t freak the fuck out the minute something bad happens”.
guachi
@Elizabelle:
Rather than explain why Biden has failed to make the obvious case for the last two or three years you resort to pathetic insults. This is why Biden is losing.
trollhattan
@artem1s:
He does seem an obvious choice and has worked diligently at losing any sort of semblance as smart and edjumicated.
However, my contrarian VP money is on Possum Queen.
Eolirin
@Mike E: Zero front pagers are pro dumping Biden.
trollhattan
@guachi: He is losing on account of pathetic insults? I thought pathetic insults were why Trump is winning.
rikyrah
Monique Pressley (@MoniquePressley) posted at 9:27 AM on Mon, Jul 15, 2024:
Please take this morning’s ruling as a reminder of why citizens who care about one day achieving the democratic goals of our constitution #fight and do not have the luxury of resigning ourselves to being ruled by an authoritarian regime.
(https://x.com/MoniquePressley/status/1812856461883556002?t=PSrgRmhGVIWJRSSU9meLTw&s=03)
Martin
@Soprano2: Trump was caught on tape talking about grabbing women by the pussy. A month later he won the presidential election.
We are terrible at assessing what the public will react to, and when.
3Sice
jimmiraybob
@rikyrah: “We have created a dictator.”
It certainly looks like the groundwork is done.
This morning i was thinking that Burgum would fit the new Trump call for national unity. But then I came to my senses and realized that Vance would play the loyal henchman’s role far better while continuing to actually divide the nation. Say one thing (the normalizing propaganda) do the other thing (the real plan).
Rubio? Too stupid and weak. And he might be squishy when “legal” Latinos/Latinas are in the camps. A strongman needs ruthless lackies completely devoid of moral and ethical grounding.
M31
let’s see if any news outlets address the burning question “why does Trump need a new VP candidate?”
or interview Mike Pence
Mike E
@Soprano2: same.
@Eolirin: you calling BC a zero? That’s not nice!
Miss Bianca
@Belafon: yep. That realization is what keeps me going through the Slough of Despond whenever I happen upon it again. And again, and again…
tam1MI
I got together with some friends this weekend. They are all pretty much progressive DSA types., one self-identifies as a Communist. They all without exception said they were voting for Biden and that they were outraged at the attempt to disenfranchise 13 million primary voters. (The disenfranchisement attempt seemed to be the main driver of their vote). So there are at least some folks out there coming home to the Dems because of this.
davek319
@Mike in Pasadena: JJesus Christ, Garland, get your fuckin’ head outta your ass and investigate Uncle Clanky and Slippery Sam! The charges write themselves, dammit!
Oh, and Jamie Raskin pointed out that Congress can in fact hold the SuckCream courtiers accountable under the Constitution. Wait. I’ll come in again….
guachi
@Soprano2:
People saw what they saw in the debate. Biden waited 9 days to do his ABC interview. It reinforced what a majority already thought of Biden – he was too old. It made even more switch from “not too old” to “too old”. And, because people understand how time works, it’s going to be nearly impossible to change anyone’s mind about that. Biden will never get younger.
3Sice
@Renie:
Need Thiel’s bucks.
NotMax
“Hello, customer service? I’d like to return this timeline. It’s broken.”
Steeplejack
@ArchTeryx:
Thanks for clarifying things somewhat.
Mai Naem mobile
@UncleEbeneezer: Garland should have appointed a special prosecutor way before he did on the Jan 6th stuff. I actually was a Garland supporter for a while but one of the main reasons where we’re at on TFGs cases is because Garland, for whatever reason, took his sweet time. He could have gamed this out and figured out that the Supremes would drag everything out and TFG would drag everything out. Garland was the wrong man for the job at this time in history. My state’s SOS Adrian Fontes would have made a much better AG.
jimmiraybob
@artem1s:
“both MAGA and evangelists hate Vance..”
Vance would earn their love and devotion.
They may not like the witch hunter but they would love the witch hunter’s role (yes, this is a nod to the 17th century British colonies of N Am).
ArchTeryx
@Martin: And a majority of white women voted for him after that tape was released. For non-college-educated white women, their and their husbands’ hatreds overruled the fact the guy was a serial sexual abuser. The rot in a cult runs very, very deep.
CaseyL
I can’t find any legal commentary online that I trust, and certainly none of the chattering class on news will be of any help. It does seem that SCOTUS has given a retroactive green light to anything and everything TCFG did, does, and will do.
I don’t know what tools Jack Smith has at this point. His experience at the Hague surely trained him to recognize when the institutional roadblocks are too much to overcome (most people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity never even come to trial, after all). He might just put this one in the “Live to Fight Another Day” column and go home. He did what he could.
There probably isn’t an institutional response when the institution itself has been so thoroughly corrupted.
West of the Rockies
@Starfish:
Why would one wish to read an essay that is sympathetic towards Cannon?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mai Naem mobile: Oh great. We are going to play all the old hits today. This is awesome.
Soprano2
@Martin: I remember that a few Republicans freaked out about that for a couple of days, but they got the gift of Assange dumping all the Democratic e-mails, and the press gleefully ran after that and quit talking about “grab her by the pussy”, plus TCFG’s voters already knew he was a crass cheater when it came to women. But yeah, as this weekend has shown you have no idea what’s going to happen next.
jimmiraybob
@guachi: “People saw what they saw in the debate. ”
Hessoos on a popsicle stick. Anybody still clinging to that Tuesday night is insane. If you want evidence to the contrary I recommend viewing any one of a dozen public addresses since.
It’s like screaming, “the sun is gone! we’re dooooomed” weeks after the solar eclipse has passed.
Oy.
prostratedragon
Clergy and social action groups against White Christian Nationalism. Milwaukee Inner-City Congregations Allied for Hope (MICAH) is an interfaith group.
Villago Delenda Est
This stupidity may be precisely what Smith needs to get this hack tossed of the case.
Martin
@rikyrah: Democrats need to realize that the system, that they are wholly trusting will self-correct, is going to fail them as the GOP steadily dismantle it from the areas they have captured.
I’ve not seen any proactive effort to fight that or to counter/compensate for it.
schrodingers_cat
@ArchTeryx: But if you state that fact you will be inundated with indignant comments of #notallwhitewomen.
Villago Delenda Est
On the veepstakes: I’m still going with Burgum, who makes Grey Davis look like Taylor Swift. No threat to TCFFG/PAB’s fragile spotlight.
schrodingers_cat
@Martin: Even if what you say is true our fight begins with reelecting Biden-Harris and the entire slate of Ds. It doesn’t end there but that’s the first necessary step.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: Horseshit.
jimmiraybob
Also too, anybody else get a “expand and strengthen the Secret Service” vibe. Just in time for a possible strongman rule?
Steeplejack
@Soprano2:
“I think he’s in a bubble too and doesn’t realize it.”
I think that’s a big part of being in a bubble—you don’t realize that you’re in one. “The view from here is so clear. What is everybody’s problem?!”
eversor
@prostratedragon:
That’s as stupid as #notallwhitemen
You can’t dodge the issue of the GOP being a Christian party and Christianity being the issue.
guachi
@jimmiraybob:
85% of voters think Biden is too old. Anywhere from 50-70% of Biden voters want Biden to withdraw. A NYT poll out today showed 33% are satisfied with Biden as the nominee and 62% want someone else.
If it were just one bad debate the numbers wouldn’t be this high. Are all of these Americans insane? Ignoring your demoralized base is not a way to win.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: You have to remember that some commenters have decided that the US is too broken and think that burning it all down is inevitable.
TBone
@CaseyL: how about the previous rulings of the Eleventh Circuit?
MisterForkbeard
@artem1s: I don’t think that they do hate Vance. He’s a smarmy asshole, but he’s a loyal soldier to Trump (until he can backstab him for political gain) – but if Trump picks him, he’ll become the instant darling of the evangelicals and the MAGA republicans. It’s a cult – being slavishly in line with Trump is their defining feature.
Starfish
@ArchTeryx: I want you to take this one day at a time and understand that there are legitimate things to fear, but Trump has run a very “LOOK AT ME” administration that does all sorts of very random nonsense that takes time to unwind. He spends his time firing everyone. He can’t even keep his own Vice President.
Making plans to stay safe is important, but remember that giving into fear leads to not being able to think straight and make good decisions.
danielx
She does appear to know which side of her exceedingly white bread is buttered.
rikyrah
OT:
Does anyone have one of those electric fly swatter racquets? I ordered one this weekend. Want to know if they’re for real.
Harrison Wesley
@Omnes Omnibus: The Doom Loop?
ArchTeryx
@schrodingers_cat: Which is stupid. A majority of white women voted for Trump and it was high-school educated rural women that put that number into a majority. It may not be all women, but a WHOLE lot of women are willing to vote their whiteness over their own bodily autonomy. And while it is impossible to attribute his fluke victory to any one factor (just like any disaster), the huge upsurge in white women voting for him was one part of his victory.
Any time some idiot posts #notallwhitewomen, I simply post a photo from a Trump rally of women wearing a “He can grab me right here! (down arrow)” T-shirts. All white. That shuts them right up.
cmorenc
Unfortunately Cannon is auditioning for the next opening on SCOTUS if Trump wins, which compounds the sheer disastrous consequences of the ruling itself.
Ohio Mom
@ArchTeryx: It’s been said that history doesn’t repeat, it rhymes. If, the universe forbid, this country does fall into some sort of dictatorship, I am not convinced that disabled people will be the first targeted.
I think the first targets have already been identified: people of color, particularly from places south of the U.S., and LGBT+. And women of child-bearing age, although a good portion of that damage has already been done.
Democrats and people not sufficiently MAGA will also be at risk.
I write this as the mother of a disabled young adult. I don’t worry about him being killed, though I worry about his Social Security and Medicaid being cut off and his resulting penury once his dad and I are dead.
Anyway, take a deep breath and be mad at big mouth MIL (I know she isn’t technically a MIL). There is a reason MIL jokes exist.
CaseyL
@Martin: The only way to counter/compensate is to grasp the tools SCOTUS handed to the President.
He has to. There is no longer any choice. I feel it in my bones. No matter the actual vote count (and gods know what will happen with the voting: I fully expect a significant number of polling places to be attacked) the GOP will bring some kind of suit to SCOTUS to have TCFG declared the winner. (Fast-tracked, obviously, from a lower court.)
And SCOTUS will, because now the Court is in a place where if TCFG isn’t President, it will be penalized for its corruption. As TCFG “has” to be President to make his legal problems go away, the current SCOTUS “has” to have him in power to make its problems go away.
I intend to fight, I intend to vote. But I feel like we’re taking vitamin supplements to combat metastatic cancer.
lowtechcyclist
@wenchacha:
Jesus? Brian Boitano? ;-)
TBone
The forecast calls for pain. My umbrella is a sassy, UPPITY, clamoring bumbershoot.
Reminder from Ruth Ben-Ghiat:
Renie
@guachi: You’re quoting a NY Times poll? LOL yes they are so neutral when it comes to Biden. LOL
NotMax
@rikyrah
Are you plagued by electric flies?
:)
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: I think we only need to burn down the high-end neighborhoods.
Omnes Omnibus
@guachi: That’s the good old John Paul Jones/David Farragut fighting spirit.
artem1s
it was pretty clear she was going to find a way out of this case from the beginning. better it’s in the open now. I find it hard to believe Jack Smith didn’t know this was possible and wasn’t prepared for this (he insisted she rule now so as to keep her from doing so after the jury was impaneled IIRC). she’s a hack and the 11th has already smacked her down once. no reason to believe they think any differently now.
ArchTeryx
@Ohio Mom: To be scrupulously fair, I met the big mouth MIL and she isn’t a bad person either. I genuinely don’t think anyone realized what a fascist this uncle really was until he ran a recent funeral ceremony for MIL’s late sister. That’s a WHOLE separate story, but that’s where he ripped the mask off and pretty much tried to kill half his own branch of his family through heat illness, and shit all over the sister’s memory by trying to turn a funeral into a Trump rally.
Most of us in this house are also registered D, which is another bullseye on our back. And I’ve been persecuted my whole life for my disabilities. They cost me a career I worked almost 30 years toward, and on multiple occasions nearly cost me my life. I’m not so confident I won’t be targeted along with POC and the LBGTQ+ crowd.
Sister Golden Bear
@M31:
You forgot Saudi Arabia.
E
Every time you respond to the troll you give them a chance to repeat themselves. When the troll is pied this gets presented graphically because you see pie next to commenter you like and respect and have not pied. But they responded to the troll, and as the thread develops you see how much more space the troll has been given. Gawd! I spilled PAGES of digital ink arguing with a Covid troll who I am now certain wasn’t a real person on Facebook. So humiliating how long I let that go on before realizing what was happening.
Archon
@guachi: Just for giggles can you give us a poll that isn’t NYT to show us how hopeless things are with Biden at the top of the ticket?
Martin
@schrodingers_cat: What makes you think the system will hold long enough to do that? We’re watching the judiciary pull out all the stops to protect Trump. We haven’t gotten to the meat of the legal challenges around polling access, vote by mail, and so on.
This constant attitude of ‘let’s get through this election and we’ll fix it later’ hasn’t worked. We didn’t get the necessary legal voting protections after 2020. We’ve watched USSC bribery continue unabated for 3 years now. We’ve watched judges fail to recuse in election-related cases with no repercussions. If Democrats continue to tolerate this, then it becomes acceptable and it will never get fixed – which is what we’ve seen.
You can yell and scream and shake your fist and say that democracy is ending, but if you don’t DO anything, then you are effectively endorsing those things.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Mike in Pasadena:
Yup. It’s classic Orange Fart Cloud legal tactics honed over decades of practice. Only this time he has at least some judges who are proverbially on the take for him to increase the timeline, etc.
The rot here and as we all know there’s plenty of it, starts with Uncle Clarence. It’s uncertain if she would have done that had he not given her the judicial equivalent of a PowerPoint presentation on how to do it.
The Extreme Court needs reform in whatever manner that entails.
jimmiraybob
@guachi:
“Ignoring your demoralized base is not a way to win.”
If insanity is running off a cliff because of irrational panic can be defined as insane, especially given the stakes, then I stick with my diagnosis. Of, course, I am not a doctor and there may be better language.
It’s time to buck up.
Ruckus
@M31:
Did you see the pictures of all the Banker’s Boxes stacked up?
There is a lot more than the one box contents shown strewn on the floor that SFB stole from us. photos-from-trump-indictment-show-boxes-of-classified-documents-stored-in-mar-a-lago-shower-ballroom
Another Scott
@SomeRandomGuy: I still don’t see a mechanism.
Who would appeal? The judge isn’t a party. The defendant? On what basis? “My favorite judge is off the case, I don’t like it…??”
I recognize the law is complicated and procedures have to be followed and people can always question whether the rules were followed correctly. And lawyers are paid to be able to argue any side of any issue. But it seems a huge stretch here.
This law review article (39 page .pdf) may clarify things. Or not – IANAL.
That is apparently about sentencing. We haven’t even had a vast number of opening motions properly ruled on here, let alone had a complete trial…
Smith’s next filing should be interesting.
Eyes on the prizes.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
caphilldcne
@Elizabelle: I’ve got a Michigan undergrad degree and have a JD from another school. I’m ashamed of my profession and Michigan for producing her and disgusted by her own lack of knowledge, ethics and shame.
Martin
@CaseyL: Yeah, I agree. Biden has been granted immunity – so use it. Everyone knows the GOP will, so why refuse to play the game as the rules are established?
SomeRandomGuy
@ArchTeryx: Um. If I understand you, you’re breaking up with your fiancee because she shared medical information with your mom, and you feel that puts your life in danger.
I don’t want to tell you what people you must love and trust. Still, unless I had explicitly told someone “please don’t share my CFS[1] with your family; here is why I think my life will be in danger if you share this information,” I could be upset, but I couldn’t see the complete collapse of trust being appropriate. (Note: Not saying it’s *inappropriate* – just saying I don’t see it as appropriate – yet.)
Now, full disclosure: as a victim of abuse, I tend to ignore pains given to me, BUT, because I’ve grown up with constant exhaustion, I can see a lot more pieces and parts to stories than most.
So I see your fear, but I also see her thinking that sharing medical info with mom (assuming mom is trustworthy) wasn’t a huge risk, unless you’d already specifically asked “don’t share my medical condition, please, it’s super important”. A person who took a huge, unexplained, risk with your privacy is more dangerous than someone who made a mistake in assuming Mom would keep her mouth shut.
Anyway: since I don’t know the situation, I’m not even going to try to give advice, but, I do feel badly for the situation, and I hope you find a good, safe, and happy-as-possible, resolution.
[1] Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – but its proposed new name is “Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disorder” or SEID. Frankly, I think it should be RFPSEID, because it’s also really fucking painful, and, fun fact, I only realized I’d been in pain most of my life when I was 54, by which time, if I’d been Shannon Doherty, I’d have been dead, which, at least would have meant I didn’t need to keep seeking treatment.
Also: if you’re worried, know your house, have multiple layers of security cameras sending to the cloud, and learn to use a gun. A pump action shotgun is good, if you can handle it. Inside the home is rarely a good place for other longarms, so for a side arm, I personally like a .357, and if you can get one with a four inch barrel, it’s one of the guns that has a very definite “wrong end” to be staring at. Of course, then you need to be able to hold a relatively heavy handgun on target without wobbling.
More important than gun or load is a willingness to fight back. No one wants to get shot up with a .22, if they don’t have to, and as a gun shop owner pointed out “well, you could throw rocks at them instead.”
I don’t think you’ll need to be loaded for bear, or even for human, but, planning a purely defensive response is something you can do, right now. NB: Defensive doesn’t mean you *won’t* shoot, nor even that you won’t shoot first. It just means a smart assailant gets to turn over their weapons (toll house, don’t you know) and survive.
Soprano2
@MisterForkbeard: I agree with this, the cultists will fall in line no matter what he does, because that’s how a cult behaves.
Mike E
@E: you can select the hide option which shows no pics or text, just a blank entry. No negative representation attached to peeps replying to guachi and it also looks much more uncluttered in a thread of comments (of course one can toggle to see for themselves if they’re curious, “pie” is really “ignore”)
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Who would appeal? Smith on behalf of the US.
Mike E
@SomeRandomGuy: “her mom”, get it right
Starfish
@West of the Rockies: If we are truly living in dangerous times, it is important to read things from different perspectives to understand what is really going on and not bury ourselves in confirmation bias.
MisterForkbeard
@Mike E: I don’t think that’s right (several of the front pagers think that Biden should definitely stay in, a couple of them think that the problem is around perception and there’s not much Biden can do about it).
@Soprano2: What’s interesting to me is that it looks like the discussion about Biden dropping has largely been abandoned or accepted as “probably not gonna happen” outside of a few agitators. Likewise, though the news orgs are running with a lot of “OMG someone tried to kill Trump, he’s won the election and also this might be Democrats’ fault”, it’s getting a ton of pushback on reddit, twitter, and other locations.
Basically, I don’t think Trump is getting a lot of sympathy from anyone on this. I do think his own supporters are pumped up about it. So is the media (CLICKS!) but actual voters don’t seem to care much.
Another Scott
@Starfish: +1
Hang in there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
ArchTeryx
@SomeRandomGuy: Somewhat wrong. She shared information with her mom, someone I’ve never quite trusted, and did so without consent. She didn’t just share my information either; she shared the medical and disability information of the entire household with the future MIL, who then promptly told the fascist uncle.
My own mother, even in her 80s, is smart enough to know exactly who the Trumpers are in our family and not to open her mouth to them. Talking with her is safe. Her side of the family has Holocaust survivors, which helps, which is part of the reason I am terrified as I am of the situation. If it stayed in my family, none of this would have happened, but it did not.
wjca
When it comes down to Burgum vs Vance, I think it’s a choice between preserving sole possession of the spotlight (advantage Burgum) and somewhat more money (advantage Vance, albeit thru his donors). On balance, I expect Trump to opt for the spotlight.
Miss Bianca
@Martin: And what, Martin, are you proposing that we *do*? I mean, given that lawful means like voting are apparently hopeless. Go on, Martin – lay out for us exactly what we are supposed to be doing instead.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: I mean, who would appeal if the case were taken away from Cannon by the 11th Circuit.
Sorry I wasn’t clear.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
MisterForkbeard
@Eolirin: Betty Cracker was much more ambivalent about it, I think. She thought that Biden looked pretty bad and while he’d been okay since, she understood and to some degree bought into the “maybe he should go” idea.
But she wasn’t gungho about it and wasn’t insisting
Sister Golden Bear
@Martin: Trump’s campaign was panic right after the “grab ’em by the pussy” tape because they believed it would cause him to lose. We would’ve had a clearer idea about how the public would or would’ve have reacted to it, if Comey hadn’t ratfucked Hillary right afterwards.
jimmiraybob
@Ohio Mom:
“I am not convinced that disabled people will be the first targeted.”
Of course, if history rhymes, then the NAZI Era poem starts with a war on those deemed not fit in the eyes of the state.
That certainly included all those with disabilities of any kind. Don’t underestimate the force of calling for blood/genetic purity when building a more perfect state. Especially when you’ve convince the base that they are the chosen ones.
SomeRandomGuy
@guachi: Wow. So, before the courts had revealed themselves to be corrupt, Biden should have been warning all along that they would be corrupt, because … why? If he can see the future, I’d like next week’s lotto numbers please.
@guachi: Oh, you’re not stupid, you just don’t understand PUSH POLLING! Wait – no, you’re flapping your yap, without understanding what you’re talking about. Yes, that’s stupid. Sorry, I had to think for a moment, and really, terrible mistake to make above, so sorry, next time I won’t accuse you of not knowing what a push poll is, because that’s not a reason to say you aren’t dumb as a post.
Old School
MisterForkbeard
@guachi: It’s a bad debate + a-now-three-week-freakout from the media.
You should also contrast this to something like 2016 or 2020 – how many people said they’d want a different nominee then? The same thing was reported as happening in 2012.
So there’s two things to consider there: What’s the baseline of unhappiness with a candidate? And what was the effect from three weeks of piling on and Dems giving bad, scary quotes
scav
See a lot of individuals here taking this event as an excuse to pull out all their emotional baggage and needs to self congratulate here and preen that whatever their personal bugaboo is, they have just been proved more correct than any of you other wishy-washy democrats.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
“We have met the enemy and it is us.”
Sister Golden Bear
@Omnes Omnibus:
“Game over, game over man!”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Captain C:
Yup.
Former intelligence officer here (security clearances above my eyeballs). Yes, compromising someone in order to leverage their position for your gain only works when that someone thinks they’re risking something, ie. job, jail time, etc. Uncle Clarence knows he’s a *no* risk.
Other ways to get someone is money and we all know *that’s* what’s speaking to Uncle Clarence. And that’s come with no risk either.
Shalimar
So she delayed long enough that even if/when the 11th Circuit removes her from the case, there won’t be time for another judge to get up to speed. I think this has been a nightmare for Cannon, she doesn’t like the negative attention or the responsibility, but she did her duty to the Federalist Society making sure Trump isn’t convicted before the election.
Mike E
@MisterForkbeard: yeah but she’s saying it in the comments… she’s a frontpager who hasn’t posted it there, yet. Citing polls to justify this “leaning” like our resident trolls do, especially when we all know how polls work these days, is “concerning”.
Sister Golden Bear
Deleted, misunderstood the comment I was replying to. Need more coffee.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
He was talking about how the “Bidenstans” are in a bubble, and that Twitter isn’t RL, but I think he’s in a bubble too and doesn’t realize it.
I agree – as I keep saying, Dems worried about Biden had ample opportunity to cast protest votes for Dean Phillips during the primaries, and Biden kept getting >98% of the vote. (Compare that to the 20-30% of the vote Nikki Haley was pulling down on the other side.)
If there’s a bubble, it encompasses >98% of us Democrat voters. Any Congresscritters falling for this bullshit need to wake up and smell the coffee, and be loud and proud for Joe.
ETA: I called my Rep and Senators this morning (Dems all; I’m in Maryland) and told them this. (Well, I told their voice mail; never did get through to a human being.)
hueyplong
@wjca: I’m struggling to care about the identity of Trump’s vp choice. By definition it will be a Shitgibbon. To the extent there exists someone you don’t utterly despise, the mere fact of that person’s selection will prove that you had misjudged him (or less likely, her).
MisterForkbeard
@Mike E: Yeah, but Betty has a much better track record here and I wouldn’t accuse her of being at the same neighborhood as the trolls, let alone near the same level.
Those polls ARE concerning. Talking about them is fine. Using them as the basis of a doomloop and then yelling at everyone else here is what the trolls do, which is not what the FPers are doing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack:
@Sister Golden Bear: In the words of a artilleryman: Nuts!
Gretchen
@Soprano2: One of those anonymous Democrats that reporters seem to find everywhere but who are never brave enough to give their names. I loved AOC’s response to this: if you’re not going to fight, resign and let someone to take over who will.
hueyplong
@Shalimar: You give Cannon a lot more credit than I do. I think the timing of this is simply to give Trump a win to brag about at the convention. Any trial had already been delayed sufficiently.
Captain C
@MisterForkbeard:
They need to learn to fap in private.
lowtechcyclist
Since this is an open thread, I’ve been sitting on my deck looking into the woods, and we’ve been getting dragonfly visitors. A few of them had hovered just a couple feet in front of me, and then one of them lit on the corner of my laptop! I got to watch him there for about a minute, all but holding my breath the entire time. I’ve never had quite such a close encounter with one before.
Mike E
@MisterForkbeard: I agree with your measured response, but not with your charactererization (trolls plural, just one fp’er) of what I said. Oh well, Pie works great regardless!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Captain C:
I’m convinced it’s something that’s been put in the water supply and distributed to entitled white liberals who continue to mouth that crap or something like it along the Loyal-Dems-But spectrum.
Manyakitty
@lowtechcyclist: lovely 😍
jimmiraybob
@Soprano2:
“I agree with this, the cultists will fall in line no matter what he does, because that’s how a cult behaves.”
Netflix has a 2024 historical documentary that is all about this, Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial. It’s six parts but manageable and timely. If you’re going to do risk analysis ya got to know the lay of the land.
West of the Rockies
@Starfish:
I read the piece. I wouldn’t call it especially sympathetic to Cannon. She sounds like a harsh, unfair and dishonest taskmaster.
I hope she is existentially miserable in her core.
SomeRandomGuy
Jack Smith appeals the dismissal, and asks the to be sent to another judge.
The 11th circuit agrees, and sends it to another judge.
The SCOTUS says “the 11th circuit erred; the case goes back to Cannon, with her dismissal reversed.”
SomeRandomGuy
@Mike E: Someday, I hope you have a few minor screw ups into a piece you put your heart into, due to a disability over which you have no control.
Asshole.
West of the Rockies
@hueyplong:
I think Berghem (not worth looking up the correct spelling, so don’t care if I botched it) won’t inspire anyone in any fashion.
Vance might appeal to creeps, but he’s a super off-putting dude. I doubt the fat, hairy face will help. My two cents.
Ohio Mom
@jimmiraybob: My working assumption is that there’s a long line of types of people screwing with “blood purity.”
Do I have to state that I absolutely do not endorse this but the MAGAs seem to me to be obsessed with people of color, especially those from Central and South America, and LGBT+.
Yes, they may get around to disabled people, or maybe specific types of disabled people, but they’ll have their plates full in the meantime.
I would be more worried about my neighbors’ adopted daughter from Guatemala than their blonde, blue-eyed, goofball autistic son.
In the interim, I can’t worry about this any more than I can worry about a piece of satellite falling through my roof. I have an election I need to help win.
SomeRandomGuy
I have CFS, and made about 20 different mistakes. I intended to say “her mom”. Sayonara, for now.
Chris Johnson
@Mike E: Oh, I don’t think that can be true. Beau is a stealth anarchist. I don’t remember him ever saying a thing about ‘flipping the ticket’ and I watch everything he puts out. In particular, he’s not going to like Harris as she’s a former prosecutor and as cool as Beau is, he’s an anarchist, ideologically. So I’m going to have to say ‘what the actual fuck’ there.
Beau and his community are pro-Biden, and Beau is where I hear stuff about how the railroad union thanked Biden for working out an after-the-battle deal that got their issues sorted. Labor is what’s impressed Beau the most about Biden. You must be thinking of somebody else.
Starfish
@Sister Golden Bear: This should almost be a rotating tag line.
Elizabelle
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I am hoping we give Biden a resounding win and both Houses of Congress. And then, expand the USSC to 13 to 15 seats.
Martin
@Miss Bianca: I never said that voting was hopeless. I’m saying that if elected Democrats think the situation is as dangerous as they keep saying it is (and which most of us believe that it is) that strongly worded letters might not be up to the task.
If you think that two justices have taken bribes in violation of federal law, then ARREST THEM instead of relying on them to self-police. Arrest Crow for bribing an elected official. You now have legal immunity for doing so thanks to the same justices. Why aren’t senate Democrats issuing and enforcing subpoenas? Why the polite requests for Roberts to explain the courts behavior which he tells them to go fuck themselves? Democrats can’t start impeachment against Thomas, but they can sure as shit hold an evidentiary hearing in the Senate regarding those bribes, force it all into public view.
If the legal system gives you a set of tools, even if they aren’t tools you wish existed, it’s still malpractice to not use them.
E
@Ohio Mom: I’m gonna say it over and over, the first targets are not going to be people of color or LGBT+, they are going to be the unhoused. Watch what happens to them and prepare to be next if what happens is successful. First step, make it illegal to be in the targeted category. Second step, removal. Both are already happening to the unhoused.
tam1MI
I should also add to this that a number of the people I talked to said: “I personally don’t like Biden, but Project 2025 SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME so I am voting Dem!”
Ohio Mom
@lowtechcyclist: I’ve heard that called a “glimmer”, meaning a moment out of the blue that takes your breath away and fills you with awe, or at least a sense of well-being. One of those moments that reminds you that the world is both a wonder and bigger than your everyday concerns, and maybe even that we walk on holy ground wherever we go.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: A contested convention is an absolute disaster. Absolute fail. If it can’t be Joe, it has to be Kamala. Everything else is a mess. Thats already a fucken mess.
You are right, though: the time for this conversation was a year ago, or more.
Chris Johnson
@CaseyL: Nonsense. It’s a chess game. Jack Smith had to prevent Cannon from empaneling a jury and then dismissing the case, whereupon double jeopardy will attach and render Trump immune from that case ever being relitigated. That has not happened. Instead, the delaying Cannon has been doing has abruptly stopped, freeing Smith to file a formal appeal not to Cannon but to her superiors, some of which already pleaded with her to recuse herself from the case on the grounds that her bias was showing (in essence). She refused.
They now have the final say, and since their big worry was that she would stall, embarrass them and then let Trump go, their worries proved entirely justified. This is the sacrificial pawn that takes Cannon forever out of the scope of this case, and brings it to other non-corrupt judges for proper handling.
We lost nothing but time. And now we have stopped losing time: it can move forward and is moving forward, over Cannon’s head. There’s nothing more she can do.
Ohio Mom
@E: Oh, you have a good point. The unhoused are definitely in the front part of the line of the various categories of people to be targeted.
jimmiraybob
@Ohio Mom:
I agree with you 100%. But, down the road, who are the enemies of the Americans With Disabilities Act?
Trump, and consequently the Cult, are obsessed with blood/genetic purity. The Libertarian wing of the Trump Party are, well, let’s face it, not in sympathetic alignment with those that can be labelled moochers and looters of the system.
Renie
@lowtechcyclist: Once last Summer, in late afternoon, we had about a dozen of them all sitting on a wire in our backyard. It was definitely a sight to behold. Never figured out what they were up to or why they all sat there together.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@E:
Lifted from the 1930s Nazi playbook in terms of making everything legislatively tidy against target groups while the mass of citizenry unaffected by such legislative tidiness collectively didn’t peep.
More specific to your point about the unhoused, a lot of residents to include a lot of self-professed progressives, will quietly applaud the effort. If there’s one thing I’ve learned here in Denver is that really great, progressive candidates who are outspoken about homelessness and protecting the unhoused, are ousted handily. This in a “blue” city.
E
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Yeah. Sigh.
Eunicecycle
@jimmiraybob: and Trump didn’t even want disabled VETERANS at some ceremony because he doesn’t like to look at disabled people.
West of the Rockies
@Renie:
Dragonflies are very abundant here in northern California. I’ve had them land on my hat and hands repeatedly. Loll about on an air mattress in the water, and they treat you like you’re their aircraft carrier.
Ohio Mom
@Eunicecycle: True. But in many ways, Trump is a puppet of others and I think the behind-the-scenes poeple have other fish to fry first.
Johnny’s Mom
I wonder if Clarence Thomas thought Ken Starr’s appointment was unconstitutional.
wait, no I don’t.
besides, if he had, surely he would have said something. OMG, I’m cracking myself up.
Paul in KY
@M31: 1 to 5
Another Scott
@SomeRandomGuy: Ok, I think I get the mechanism now.
Hypothetical path:
11th Circuit says Cannon messed up the law. Gives reasons why. As part of the remedy, 11th Circuit says “thank you for your service, someone else will take over as judge now” and remands.
TCFFG’s lawyers appeal the ruling on the law.
SCOTUS says, “Very interesting, we’ll have to think on this. Let’s have briefings on this in the 2032 term. In the meantime, we vacate the 11th Circuit ruling, send it back to Cannon.”
So they don’t have to rule on the merits of removing Cannon in isolation, they just have to say the 11th Circuit messed up the decision on the law. So, they don’t have to get to the question of whether she was rightly or wrongly removed, standing on that question, and all the rest.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@Martin: I thought AOC had introduced articles of impeachment against Thomas. And Alito. Am I wrong about that?
jimmiraybob
@Eunicecycle: Yep. General Mark Milley (Trump Administration) related the story and Fmr. General John Kelly (Trump Administration) added to the story.
Paul in KY
@Captain C: He doesn’t seem like that kind of guy, to me.
Paul in KY
@ArchTeryx: Quote from your post: ‘One person in the house has already armed up to protect his own fiancee and he’s by no means a D. Indeed, partisan-wise you’d call him an independent and nonvoter. But the white farm boy grew up in Alabama and he sees the writing on the wall.’
So since he’s white, he can’t vote Democratic? What’s it take for this person to become a Democrat and cast a fuckin vote?
cope
@lowtechcyclist: When we lived in Florida, I found a very large dragonfly in our garage one afternoon. I reckoned I could grab it by the thorax between the two pairs of wings and set it free outside. Very gently, I used my thumb and forefinger to do so. The instant I touched it, the head pivoted 180 degrees around and those two very large pincers/jaws/mouthparts it had sank into my thumb. There was a swear word or two and I flung the thing across the garage. I settled for opening the garage door and hoping it would find its way to freedom. I’ve always assumed it did.
Betty Cracker
@Mike E: WRONG. Defeating Trump is my top priority. Unlike 99% of commenters here, I admit I don’t know which strategy (keep or replace Biden) would be more likely to achieve that goal.
SteverinoCT
Not a troll, but challenge accepted:
A Tootsie-Pop, obtained for free,
Was in my mouth quite rapidly.
My teeth, to be fair,
Are not really all there,
So licks numbered dozens, not three.
jimmiraybob
@jimmiraybob:
Ha ha, I win!
wjca
@Betty Cracker:
Slow deep breaths, Betty. Slow deep breaths.
And, if I may: Illegitimi non carborundum
Paul in KY
@Martin: Agree.
Betty Cracker
@wjca: You’re right. Overly hostile reply deleted and vow to ignore group-think enforcer bullies renewed.
BellyCat
Comrade, you are to be congratulated on your refusal to engage in thoughtful discussion about difficult topics and divisive name-calling among people with shared goals!
BellyCat
Great label, BC! The “shunning” commentary from these parties is profoundly divisive. Silencing inquiry and thoughtful discussion is intolerance.
Cannon previews more of what’s ahead if we lose. Dire situation, so Go Team Blue! The USSC gave Biden some powerful options to save democracy. Let’s see if he will use them.
Tehanu
I agree with Betty’s comment but I think it needs a bit more:
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A POPSICLE STICK, WHO DOES THAT TWISTED DUMP-SUCKING “JUDGE” THINK SHE IS?