Hurricane Milton is scaring the fuck out of me, and I am not sure what it is going to take to convince America that this is a here and now crisis and not some distant thing in the future we might have to worry about. Climate change here, it’s real, and it’s a fucking mess. I am not sure how Florida is going to continue to exist the way it has, especially because it’s going to be impossible to have insurance on your home. The only people who will be able to afford to live there are people so rich they can rebuild every other year. Where are all those retirees going to go?
Honestly surprised that this is not a concern of SOCOM and JSOC and wonder if those assets are going to have to be permanently relocated sometime in the near future.
At any rate, here’s to Adam and Betty and the rest of our Florida folks. Get the fuck out or good luck, whichever works best for you.
I’ve been under the weather for 48 hours and am feeling better but am really ready to get out of the cold moist air of the fall with all the mold from leaves hammering my sinuses. I have an appointment with a surgeon on Thursday to examine whether I need to be scoped again on my shoulder, and if not, I am out of here in six weeks and heading back to Arizona.
Matt McIrvin
I voted, so that’s something. Found some time today to drop my ballot in the drop box outside City Hall.
Thought I heard some woman yelling “Thank you!” from some distance off but I’m not sure if she was yelling at me.
Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom
I’m in Canada & I’m terrified. I remember Katrina but Helene was actually worse in some ways because she spread the damage. She also scraped the Florida barrier islands practically to the bedrock. Truly, they are gone, uninhabitable really. Now Milton. While they’re still searching for survivors of Helene. Some times, having an imagination can be a bit of a curse.🙄
sab
I just turned the lights out to go to bed and Solomon my new kitty came out from under my bed where he has been sleeping all day, and wants skritches. Pitbull is sleeping on my feet.
ETA I hope he doesn’t yowl tonight like he did last night.
lamh47
@Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom: Right Helene caused damage in the areas where folks didn’t expect it to.
Katrina was a known thing, and came and passed, BUT the city infrastructure failed us.
lamh47
I’ve been busy all day, so just now able to check in with folks I know in Florida since they updated the category for Milton.
The main person I was worried about did evacuate so I’m glad about that.
One thing about my family that we learned from Katrina…when it’s suggested to evacuate, we evacuate. And sometimes even when it not advised, we do seek higher ground from NOLA
hrprogressive
Considering some of these Fascist assclowns unironically think this sort of thing is controlled by liberals, we’re well past the Rubicon here.
Certain segments of humanity will never “believe” in climate change, no matter what happens.
dmsilev
From what I understand, the military is definitely aware of the costs and risks associated with climate change. The problem, as always, are Republicans and a few Democrats who have it as a matter of religious faith that fossil fuels are The Way and nothing shall be permitted to reduce that. So, good luck getting a ‘relocate bases away from flood zones’ bill through the Senate.
scav
Tossing in my favored best distraction of the day: learning just how weird in a good way comb jellies are. They can fuse nervous systems! And they light up. Plus the sheer joy of how things actually work in research.
Citizen Alan
I don’t know what can be done about it in the face of a sufficiently large percentage of the population (1) who is willfully ignorant about everything, (2) who insists on viewing science as a concept as part of a liberal conspiracy, (3) who believes for religious reasons that the world is ending anyway and that’s a good thing, (4) who isn’t worried about climate change even if they do think it’s real because they expect to be dead and buried of old age before they personally suffer from climate disaster and don’t give a shit about their kids and grandkids, and (5) who would be happy to see the world destroyed just to piss off liberals.
Whatever happens in November, we will still have to deal with the fact that we have 70million voters who are literal death cultists.
RaflW
Puddin’ Boots is said to have ducked a phone call from Biden and refused a joint appearance (I remember the previous disaster walk where lots of people were gladhanding Joe and ignoring Ron. I bet he and particularly his wife remember that).
It’s all so fucking petty, and yet it’s designed to feed the malicious propaganda that Biden “isn’t doing anything” post-Helene. I’m not big enough to let all that roll off. I’d struggle not to want to punish DeSantis somehow in the aftermath of all this Republican garbage.
It’s good that I’m not in any sort of responsible position these days. I’ve gotten some second-hand toxicity from 58 years of living under unaccountable Republican bullshit.
Anoniminous
@scav:
Ctenophores are plain assed weird
Princess
We voted today, absentee by mail. Two down.
Ksmiami
@RaflW: 54 years of Republicans killing America has made me increasingly intolerant of their continued existence.
Chet Murthy
The last time I lived in Hurricane Alley was the mid-80s in college. So I don’t really know nuthin’. But geeeeez, I look at these warnings, and I just worry about the FPers and commenters in central FL. Wish they’d all get out. But I know that I’m not the one to judge conditions, so …. there’s that. Oof.
Gretchen
Scaring me too. My son lives in Naples. His fiancée is able to stay at the local Marriott where they house the first responders ready to deploy, but for some reason, unlike the last hurricane, he is not able to stay with her. I’m trying not to lose my shit.
I’d like to convince them to move back home but not sure I have a good argument since we live in Tornado Alley.
Matt McIrvin
@Citizen Alan: over on Mastodon I saw a comment from Andrew Dessler, an atmospheric scientist at Texas A&M, who was asked about the “weather control machine” conspiracy theories. He pointed out that since Republican-voting areas are more rural and sparsely populated, Republican majorities control more land area (as we all know from those “red America” maps they like to gloat about), so if you toss random natural disasters at the United States like darts at a dartboard, statistically more Republican-voting areas are going to be affected (though not necessarily more Republican *people*). So it creates a statistical illusion that natural disasters are out to get Republicans.
And then he added that, while weather control is nonsense, we do *affect* the weather through climate change, so if you want to minimize human-caused damage from hurricanes you’d better want to get off fossil fuels.
Chris
My dead grandparents’ house is on a Hurricane Alley beach. Currently it’s co owned by their kids. When that generation dies off and it passes to the grandchildren, well, there’s just too many of us to realistically share it, so one or a couple of us will almost certainly buy out the rest. There’s one or two who are able and willing.
We all had a big phone call talking about this, after which I called my sibling privately and was like… we all realize this is a bad joke, right? Cousin Bob the Republican is going to buy us all out for an investment that’s going to go tits-up within his life time. I don’t mean that the house’s market value is going to crater: if that was all it was, the house might still be worth keeping for sentimental reasons. I mean that the house is literally going to get destroyed. Best case scenario it’s a second home or Airbnb or something and Cousin Bob is out a pile of money. Worst case scenario, he’s made it his primary home and has no place left to live. We all know we’re talking about a ticking time bomb, right?
Sibling was like, yep, no, I get it! But if he wants the bomb, he can have it.
Okay. Just so we’re all clear!
SW
Wind 180
Pressure 897
Yikes!
Trivia Man
I watch Hurricanes somewhat closely at a broad level, it can affect our trucking deliveries so we like to get ahead of it. Milton came up FAST, and is now in the top 10 for stringest wind ever and lowest pressure ever. WOW! It also looks like the first or second to EVER spawn in the Gulf and then go East to Florida. That spawn is unusual and most go North or even west.
lamh47
Ok…something good.
I saw The Wild Robot. OMG…guys IT WAS SOO GOOD. I would actually say BETTER than Inside/Out 2!
I legit had tears at many points in the movie!
HIGHLY recommend.
Chris
@RaflW:
Chris Christie worked with Obama during the hurricane in the NYC area a decade ago, and it destroyed any hope he had at the presidency. Republican politicians have taken notice. Their voters will never forgive a politician for getting them help from Democrats.
Anoniminous
The predicted path for Milton is just about the worst case scenario for Tampa.Here’s a Vox article from 2019 laying it all out.
Tony G
Speaking as an Old Retired Boomer … I say that the retirees need to give up on their idiotic fantasy of moving to isolated, lonely “retirement communities” in Florida, Arizona or any of the other states that are being hammered the worst by climate change. Stay where you are. Be part of a community with kids, teenagers, young adults and middle-aged adults. Stay the hell out of that paved-over swamp called Florida!
HumboldtBlue
When the most experienced and most respected meteorologist in Florida is in tears, you know the storm is a fucking monster.
SatanicPanic
This 60 Minutes interview sucks. Fuck this interviewer. Worse than Dana Bash. Smarmy dickhead.
Edit “you own a gun, have ever fired it?” Would they ask a man this? Fucking asshole.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Today is my grandchildren’s (twins) birthday and we took them to see it. Yes, SO GOOD!
Chet Murthy
@SatanicPanic: Well, I guess the days of my not paying any attention to 60 Minutes are …. coming to a middle.
lowtechcyclist
I remember talking in line with an oldish guy in line at Parkesdale’s in Plant City last summer, and when he said something about the heat and I was all ‘get ready for more, climate change isn’t going away’ he had a whole spiel down about how the science showed it wasn’t really happening. Wonder what he thinks now. I wonder whether Parkesdale’s will be in shape to be open when we come down to spend Christmas with the in-laws, and I wonder if central Florida will be in shape then for us to come visit to begin with. My FIL isn’t in shape to evacuate and wouldn’t anyway, so I hope he makes it through the storm OK.
The consequences of our inaction on global warming will be with our descendants for millennia. Fascist regimes have risen and fallen, and even if TFCG turns America into a fascist nation, that will eventually pass. But global warming won’t. And however awful the GOP is on everything else, it wouldn’t be so awful if they’d come around on climate change.
My son could live to see the beginning of the 22nd century. That would only be a good thing if it happens on a planet with a future. Ever since we brought him into our family fifteen years ago, climate change has mattered to me most especially because of him. And I wonder: don’t the people running the oil companies have children and grandchildren too?
They’ve known for a long time that global warming is real, but they’ve fought to hide the truth due to their bottom line – but it’s not like anyone will be able to escape from it: even those who are at the top of the heap 50 or 75 years from now will lord it over a vastly reduced civilization if we continue to fail to act. That’s a pretty lousy future to stick your grandkids with, even if you don’t give a damn about the rest of humanity.
sdhays
@SatanicPanic: Do you mean to tell me it’s not “friendly”? I was assured by a FTFNYT headline that Kamala was only doing “friendly” interviews.
tobie
@Chet Murthy: Sonetime you can’t move. My mother’s 95 in a senior home in Sarasota. I’m far away. She’s inland and not in an evacuation zone. I just have to hope she’ll be okay. Yeah, it’s nerve-wracking. Wishing all FPers and Jackals on FL’s gulf coast safety this week.
Tony G
@Chris: Yes, that’s right. Chris Christie was a terrible governor and a horrible human being — but he had basic, pragmatic common sense. Hence, he became a pariah in the contemporary Republican Party.
Gvg
Remember when California had all kinds of “unsolvable” problems, until they finally elected enough democrats to get things done, and then most of their problems went away, and those that didn’t were clearly being worked on?
A lot of Florida’s problems are solvable if we just quit electing these dumbass crazy Republicans.
we need some insurance solutions that include zoning certain kinds of new building near the coast and not allowing additions there, more interior roads, gradual insurance rate hikes for bad locations, buyouts. Basically move inland.
Gun restrictions based on responsibility.
School funding, cut back on the pointless testing, quit harassing various out groups and banning books, respect teachers, quit wasting money on fly by night charter schools. A few are good but they can prove it.
Get religion out of healthcare. I really don’t think the Catholic positions can be allowed because of the bad outcomes for women, all women, not just pregnant ones.
Accept Medicare expansion and any other thing that benefits your citizens.
improve mass transit, all links.
TF79
@Chris: given that a good chunk of those voters believe that Democrats are not just people with opposing political views, but rather that they are literally in league with Satan, not as a metaphor but as an actual supernatural being, I guess there’s a (bizarre) consistency to that stance.
Tony G
@lowtechcyclist: They don’t give a damn about their grandchildren or their children. They are psychopaths.
Chris
@lowtechcyclist:
They think their grandkids’ll be the lucky chosen few who are spared all the bad stuff. Like they are now.
It’s no accident that lavish post apocalyptic bunkers have turned into a fad among the rich. Or that they’re anxiously asking how to ensure the help in the post apocalyptic bunkers doesn’t rise up.
dm
Ocean surface temperature readings have been interrupted for the past week because the NOAA computer center that collects and serves the data to the world’s meteorologist is in Asheville.
Princess
Good press for Harris in CNN’s article about her 60 Minutes interview.
Bupalos
@Citizen Alan: Let me add a number 6: People who understand climate change is real, have understood that for a decade or two, and continue with the same or similar consumption lifestyle and carbon footprint because of some version of “you go first” or “I’ll do it if everyone has to do it, otherwise it wouldn’t matter anyway.” When you realize this is by far the largest of the numbered groups here, and would include most of us in this space, it puts things in a different light.
Anoniminous
@lowtechcyclist:
See the dark blob marking the path of Hurricane Helene?
That’s what the lite area in central Florida is going to look like.
Bupalos
@dm: NOW YOU SEE HOW THE MASONS ARE??!!!
sdhays
I assume the correct takeaway from this is that God hates Republicans, right?
Right?
Suzanne
@tobie: My uncle and aunt live just south of Sarasota. My uncle is not in good health. They weren’t going to evacuate, but as of this afternoon, they are planning on it.
A reminder that heat waves are the deadliest natural disaster — they just don’t look that dramatic — and Phoenix is having 110 degree temps in October.
RSA
I agree that the Department of Defense and the U.S. government are broadly aware. Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a workshop hosted by the National Academies on individual and social resilience to stress, with some of those stresses being environmental, such as climate change. Climate change can induce population migration, which can have significant political implications, including destabilization. The possibilities are pretty worrisome.
B1naryS3rf
https://deadline.com/2024/10/nbc-meteorologist-chokes-up-reporting-hurricane-milton-1236109639/
Expect DeSantis goons to show up at his house before or after the storm hits because he said the forbidden words on air. FL needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps. Between this and their threats to people and media outfits about supporting the abortion amendment they’re absolutely a criminal state.
Parfigliano
@SatanicPanic: Ask Trump if he owns a gun. Oh right he can’t. Convicted felon.
Suzanne
@Chris:
I think you’re dramatically underestimating just how much people will just not think about upsetting stuff if they don’t want to. Most of us here probably deal with intrusive thoughts, but I think most people do not.
They don’t think their grandkids are going to avoid it. They just LA LA LA LA LA to tune it all out.
Bupalos
@RSA: The possibilities are here. I think it’s fair to say that a major upstream cause of the current political disruption in the United States is climate change. Climate change, spiraling inequality, and technology-mediated social disruption on par with the printing press. It’s as much as politics has ever had to digest, and it’s not surprising that it’s barfing up a Trump at us.
Jeffro
@Tony G: have to agree – northern college towns and revitalizing Great Lakes cities are looking better and better all the time
sdhays
@Parfigliano: As I recall, he does own a gun, although I doubt he has shot it much, if at all. I have a hard time imagining the Donvict taking the time to practice shooting at a gun range, no matter how exclusive.
Chet Murthy
@Anoniminous: Um, that link doesn’t seem to work?
Jeffro
@lowtechcyclist: good points
i keep it short with friends, family, and strangers: “yup, you’re right – it sure IS hot out there. It’s also our COOLEST summer for the next 20-30 years, minimum.”
Chet Murthy
@Jeffro: Oh lordy, I’d -love- to move back to Ithaca NY (or heck, anywhere in the Finger Lakes)! Only …. it’s so damn -red- (ugh).
Matt McIrvin
@sdhays: Well, no, because on the rarer occasions that God hurls one at some Democrats he gets more of them at the same time. It ought to pretty much even out.
Westyny
@SW: it’s basically a gigantic tornado
tobie
@Suzanne: You’re right that there have been a lot of extreme weather events this year, and 100+ temp in Oct in Phoenix is insane. I’d love to love my mother closer to me but I don’t think she could handle a new place at this point. What to do?
Mr. Bemused Senior
@sdhays: could you trust Trump with a gun? If he didn’t shoot someone on Fifth Avenue he’d probably shoot himself in the foot.
TS
@Tony G:
Not in Florida (not in the US for that matter) but I live in a retirement community – 20 minutes from where we raised the child – its not isolated and not lonely – it’s about 60 miles from the coast (probably not enough in current times). Child is long gone from home & not inclined to follow because they could well move again.
Eolirin
@Bupalos: This is a fundamentally stupid way of looking at these problems.
Most of the solutions to climate change aren’t going to be rooted in trying to change individual consumption patterns, which will have a grossly insufficient effect on the problem, but in regulating means and methods.
This is not an individual responsibility problem that can be solved by people taking individual actions. It has to be solved by governments and industry broadly making changes to processes that are invisible to most consumers; manufacturing processes, energy production and transmission, etc. The biggest areas where consumers play a role we need massive subsidies to get any traction on; home heating/cooling and a move to EV. They’re out of budget to adopt for most of the country and the grid isn’t ready to deal with a sudden switch over, that won’t get fixed by consumers either.
Meat will be a problem, and that alone might require society accepting changes in consumption patterns, if people aren’t willing to accept vat grown meat, but most of the rest of our energy consumption problems are solvable without substantially reducing energy usage once we get enough clean production online. A process that we’re starting a few decades later than we should have.
If your solution is “if everyone became Buddhist monks and returned to subsistence farming climate change would be mitigated” you don’t have an actual plan. And it takes the pressure off of the groups that need to be taking action to shift the conversation back to “lol consumerism and people not being vegetarian is the problem”.
I’m happily willing to fault the people in your category who vote for Republicans though.
Chet Murthy
@tobie: This last week, we’ve had 100+ deg days, and it wouldn’t get cool enough to sleep until 1am (and last night, until 3am). Ugh. My bedroom has one window, entirely unsuitable for the duct of a portable air conditioner. I’ve lived here 17yr, but now I’m thinking I must move, just to live in an apartment where the bedroom has a proper window. So next year I can use a portable air conditioner.
So damn hot I’m getting prickly heat!
Bupalos
@Chet Murthy: Ithaca is as blue as you can get.
Bill Arnold
@RSA:
One of the “intellectual” motivations for the upsurge in racist anti-migrant nationalism is fear of climate migration by darker-skinned people near the equator towards the poles, mostly north.
There are indeed people expecting/desiring the deaths of 4-6 billion humans. (Or more.)
Another Scott
I guess one “good” thing about Milton is that the models have been saying it will weaken before coming ashore. Let’s hope it weakens more than expected.
:-(
Meanwhile, if you haven’t seen this – Sally Field talks about her abortion when she was 17. It’s important that people hear stories like this.
Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Bill Arnold: mass migration is going to happen. Millions (billions?) of people are not going to just “die and reduce the surplus population” [in the words of Ebeneezer Scrooge].
There’s a real justification for the fear. We have to figure out what to do about it.
Ksmiami
@Bupalos: I’ve been saying this for awhile. The heat makes everyone insane and the storms take the rest. And everything from migration to conspiracy theories is in reaction To a world gone crazy
Bill Arnold
@Westyny:
Image at link:
(nitter link; rate limited ATM.)
Anoniminous
The last time a global crisis approaching this magnitude occurred was the 17th Century. Weather change resulted in decades of war, revolts, famine, disease, starvation, casual violence, rise of authoritarian government, privileging of the powerful and those who carried out their orders with an iron fist in an iron glove. As usual women and children bore the brunt of the brutality: murder, suicide, rape, infanticide, seclusion, children soldiers, etc. “What crime has the female sex committed to be condemned to the harsh necessity of being shut up all their days either as prisoners or slaves? I call nuns ‘prisoners’ and wives ‘slaves,” wrote Queen Christina of Sweden.
Geoffrey Parker’s book Global Crisis: War, Climate Change and Catastrophe in the Seventeenth Century is a good primer on what we’re looking at.
Dangerman
Milton? Scraping the bottom of the Berle on names.
Round and round we go (obscure reference alert).
Chet Murthy
@Bill Arnold: Holey moley: http://disq.us/p/30l94pe
[link from LG&M]
A pic of Milton, looking at, I guess, air pressure. “This hurricane is nearing the mathematical limit of what Earths atmosphere over this ocean water can produce”.
Anoniminous
Dark Blob no work. Let’s try this
Bill Arnold
@Dangerman:
“Michael” got retired: “the name “Michael” was permanently retired and replaced with “Milton” in 2019 for use during the 2024 hurricane season”
SW
@Eolirin: Yep. The failure to effectively deal with climate change is a failure of our institutions both public and private. No amount of shouldering personal responsibility will make a serious dent in the problem. Most of the scolding missives in the media even those that seem to be well intentioned really just serve to deflect attention from the heart of the problem.
Matt McIrvin
@Mr. Bemused Senior: But the richer, whiter countries are also going to have declining populations and a need for people. So if they can get over their racism… well, they probably won’t, but the solution seems obvious.
sdhays
@Matt McIrvin: Ah, so God just hates us all. That’s a relief.
Chet Murthy
@Anoniminous: In one of the replies, there’s a before/after comparison shot: https://x.com/Gamecock_Eats/status/1841473429624566251
Oof. OOoooof.
Bupalos
@Eolirin: This isn’t wrong exactly. The problem I think folks taking this line miss is that you can’t change government policy within a democracy when that policy change implies a significantly different lifestyle than the citizenry has managed to see or contemplate. The value of the relatively few people changing their lifestyles as if climate change is real is that in fact it models for others the certainty of the possibility that this can be done, and isn’t the end of the world. In fact it can be a better life. It has a small (but real) physical impact, but a greater potential political value.
You might stop and think when you correctly note that broader political action will need to be taken for the effect we really need… “what is my theory on how that action comes about?” As far as I can tell, the folks counseling to not bother with personal changes and just keep on truckin’ until the political will develops that forces everyone to comply operate under some version of a “when things get bad enough” theory. That will almost certainly never happen. As things get worse, people will get worse. Because that is what happens.
The most disappointing thing in this is your thing about living like a monk.
Tony G
@TF79: Yup. In other words, Evangelical “Christians”. As an ex-Catholic, I have a pretty low opinion of the Catholic Church, but those Evangelical lunatics take it to another level.
Bupalos
@SW:
First of all, that’s a bit silly. Obviously if the amount of personal-responsibility-shouldering was 100%, that would in fact completely solve the problem, not just make a dent. But it’s true that nothing like that is possible.
However If enough of the people who know better did in fact shoulder their personal responsibility, it would in fact transform the politics. It is in fact the only way the politics is likely to transform. When Megan The Horsey Lady endorsed Harris, she got the biggest cheer for a line that was something like “Kamala getting ready to lower these gas prices…”
Kay
Listening to the hurricane reports is frightening. For some reason the words “wind field” sound so ominous to me.
Anoniminous
@Matt McIrvin:
We’ve lived in the same places for four hundred years and by and large US whites cannot tolerate US blacks. Not a chance in hell whites in Europe will tolerate hundred million or so African blacks.
SW
@Bupalos: one of the functions of an enlightened government is to create the conditions where doing the right thing is also the smart thing. Recognize that no matter the morality of the question in the end people are going to do what they feel is in their best interest.
Anoniminous
@Chet Murthy:
Isn’t it interesting living in interesting times?
Anoniminous
@Kay:
Hurricane wind damage can be bad but usually not that significant. It’s the flooding that does the real damage, both short and long term.
Ohio Mom
@Bupalos: We were in Ithaca, visiting friends in the summer of 2004. All we saw were Kerry lawn signs, and as we left town on our way back to Ohio, more Kerry signs, until we passed an invisible line and then it was Bush, Bush, Bush.
SW
@Bupalos: No, because the choices individuals make are not the cause of the problem. The causes of the problem are the manner in which the systems within which individuals make those choices have been engineered.
Bupalos
@SW: This is a democracy. You aren’t going to have “an enlightened government” that somehow operates in a parallel but higher plane than the citizenry.
And for sure you aren’t going to get to some place where repeated natural disasters and immigration pressures and general climate destabilization leads to folks suddenly seeing the light. The opposite is much more likely to happen, and we’re already seeing that.
If you have the ability to make changes in the carbon consumption happening around you, you should do that. It does in fact matter, in ways small and potentially big.
Andrew Abshier
Sarasota resident, currently in Inglis, FL for the night, then on to the Tallahassee area. I went to the County Elections Board and got a mail-in ballot this morning so I can at least vote even if my mailbox is obliterated. If Milton comes in hot like it is now and we get the direct hit. Sarasota will be matchsticks afterward.
Pittsburgh Mike
@Bupalos: It almost doesn’t matter what we do in the US. Our carbon footprint is actually shrinking, even more so if you look at per-capita carbon footprint.
Look at where India and China are heading.
Ohio Mom
@Dangerman: NotMax, did you change your nym? If not, watch out, you have competition.
Bupalos
@SW: This seems semantic. Individuals can make choices that ultimately lead to change in the systems. This happens all the time. Slowly. But surely. It’s silly to cast this as an either-or, and I think a little self-servingly obtuse to deny the connection.
cain
@SatanicPanic: She’s in fucking law enforcement! Shit, the attack ads was “Harris is a cop!” But no, she’s never fired a gun.
RevRick
@hrprogressive: I do not believe in climate change, because in science there is never a matter of belief. Science is about seeking out what and how. Svante Arrhenius, the Swedish, Nobel-Prize-winning chemist, presented evidence of the greenhouse gas effect of carbon dioxide in 1896. One hundred twenty eight years ago. And he understood that burning fossil fuels would lead to global warming and climate change.
That knowledge led to the creation of an experiment measuring CO2 levels in the atmosphere beginning in 1958, which continues to this day. It has given us the Keeling curve.
Chet Murthy
@Ohio Mom: Yep. In 1991 during the Gulf War, the yellow ribbons started at the town line and went outwards. And the thing is, you don’t live in a Blue town without ever interacting with the Red environs. The reason I like SF, is that it’s Blue, but also b/c the entire Bay Area is Blue. Alameda County has a massive Asian-American population (and Hispanic too, I’m sure). It’s not just a little dot of blue in a sea of red.
Chet Murthy
@RevRick: I would only amend a little bit of what you wrote: I believe in climate change, in the same sense that I believe in gravity (and would not “test” it by stepping out a ninth-floor window). Science induces justified belief. Religion also induces belief: it’s called “faith”, also known as “unjustified belief”. That is to say, belief with no actual evidence to back it up.
But those sorts of nuances are like yelling “bad dog heather! bad dog heather!” at your dog: it ain’t like they understand anything except the tone of voice.
BR
OT social media anecdote — I’m seeing so many women posting glowingly about Harris’s Call Her Daddy podcast appearance, especially her comment about women not aspiring to be humble.
WaterGirl
@Dangerman: Groan!
Jay
@Chet Murthy:
They understand “Heather”,………..
Bupalos
@Pittsburgh Mike: Our carbon footprint is shrinking almost solely from the switch from coal to fracking. And fracking is likely as bad or worse in terms of climate change.
Funny, in Europe they don’t much seem to say “it doesn’t matter what we do, since the United States is worse….” But even our left here does seem open to the thing about China and India. That of course is careful to avoid per capita and careful to not account for the fact that much of emission there is from production for consumption here.
Comparative group ethics is a bad place to be. You’re here, now. You burn it or you don’t. Someone else is here later. They pay your price or they don’t. There’s a lot of very subtle wise disputation to get around this pretty simple ethical reality.
Chet Murthy
@BR: 40 years ago I remember a woman telling me that she and her friends would pretend to be stupid on dates, b/c men expected that. One would hope that those days are behind us. Good on VP Harris!
WaterGirl
@Chet Murthy: Insert “my eyes got really big just reading that” emoji.
WaterGirl
@Andrew Abshier: Frightening! Stay safe.
CaseyL
Shit. I just realized what the non-human cost of Milton is going to be. An uncountable, irrecoverable number of animals, plants, entire biomes are going to be wiped out.
Neal
Laura Loomer telling her “followers” on X to ignore FEMA guidance.
Trump’s operatives telling anyone within earshot that Biden/Harris are withholding aid.
These people truly will follow them to their willing deaths won’t they?
Now Uncle Miltie is going to flatten Tampa and instead of lending a hand these evil people will just feed the furnace of misinformation.
What a sick time we live in!
RaflW
@Chet Murthy: I know multiple people in Sarasota. I’ve visited several times, and on three of the trips, I’ve seen performances of the Westcoast Black Theatre Troupe. BF knows several people in greater Tampa (who I’ve also met). Very good friends live in Port St. Lucie (not at huge risk this particular time), as well as West Palm Beach area and Ft. Walton Beach.
What is happening in the region is awful. But also why I’d personally never move there (politics, summer heat are other reasons). I don’t wish this on anyone, but I wonder if some of the folks we know will bug out of FL in the eventual aftermath. Maybe not right away, but, like, can they even keep or get insurance after this year?! Do they want to stay for whatever is coming next after two back-to-back cleanups in one season — after possibly extended power outages and shortages of supplies.
Wild.
RevRick
@Pittsburgh Mike:
It does matter what we do, since we have been the largest producer of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere absolutely. We have been the largest contributors to the problem, so we have a moral duty to lead the way.
It would be perverse for us to say to the rest of the world, ” we got ours, sucks to be you.”
frosty
I hope your shoulder scope goes well and enjoy Arizona. We’re heading there and abandoning Florida on our Snowbird Road Trip this year. A little bit surprised to find out how cold the state park camping will be at night up on the Mogollon Rim. Not all of the southwest is warm in the winter!
Chet Murthy
@RaflW: As with/for you, there are many reasons I’d never set foot in those states. But I was thinking only of the nearest-term: the next two weeks. For sure, I don’t understand people who want to retire to the sticks, or to Florida. Me, I’d want to stick to big cities with well-developed publlic transit, dense walkable neighborhoods, and high-quality medical systems. I mean, growin’ old’s no picnic.
Chet Murthy
@RevRick: @Pittsburgh Mike: two other points:
(1) our carbon footprint is shrinking partially b/c we’ve outsourced so many of the polluting industries to China, India, and elsewhere. When we import electronics, we’re responsible for the pollution that those electronics’ manufacture produced
(2) all over the world, people want to live the lifestyle we live. Unless we can demonstrate a replicable way to live a first-world life with low carbon emissions, we can’t expect anybody else to do the same. And the idea that somehow we get to live in the First world, but nobody else does? Ha, I don’t think that’s going to fly. And CO2 goes everywhere: we can’t keep it out.
RaflW
@Chet Murthy: I guess Ed Bradley died in 2006. And I’d stopped watching 60 Minutes before he was gone, so … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
PaulWartenberg
if Milton hits Tampa Bay as expected, the southern half of Pinellas County – most of St. Pete – will get cut off into an island, and the part of Tampa where MacDill base still stands could get wiped off the map altogether. Rich enclaves like Davis Island and the coastal beaches are going to get hit… hard. And in the meantime, our state legislature and idiot governor are trying to criminally charge local tv stations for running pro-choice amendment ads instead of doing something about the rising HOA and insurance fees the state homeowners are suffering (and which is going to get more costly with all this happening).
Our overdevelopment into wetlands and along rivers and coastlines is biting us on the ass now. I wish to GOD the locals wake up and stop voting Republican.
CaseyL
@Chet Murthy: This!
I have friends who moved to Ocean Shores, a beach community on the Olympic Peninsula. It’s not exactly rural, but it’s also certainly not a big city like Seattle. They love the quiet, the lack of traffic, and the lack of police/fire sirens.
But if they have a medical emergency, the nearest hospital is a mediocre one more than half an hour away. And they’re both in their 70s, with a history of serious health issues.
Whereas the townhouse complex where I live (and where they still have a house) is literally three blocks from a UW Medicine inpatient hospital in one direction and four blocks from a UW Medicine outpatient care center. in the opposite direction Not to mention – all those sirens? – it’s because there is a fire station and a police station less than half a mile from us.
I ain’t leavin’ Seattle except under duress.
wjca
Ask him if he’s ever fired a gun. Ever.
I’m betting no. Or, rather, NO!!!
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
1.The only thing that makes this worse than when I started voting – a very, very long time ago, is that there is a hell of a lot more to damage, people, property, government….
2. There has always been a segment that doesn’t give 2 shits about anyone else but themselves. It’s humanity. It’s just gotten larger than it used to be, so of course there are more shitty humans who don’t give 2 shits about anyone else. (I see no other words but swearing that truthfully describes this) People who would still vote for shitforbrains do not give even one shit about any other person on the planet. I see no other way to deal with this other than to out vote them.
NotMax
Not to worry. Judge Cannon will dismiss it.
//
wjca
Would it be insensitive to hope for something about a tibia and a femur higher?
KatKapCC
@wjca: I’ve never fired a gun, either. But I also hate guns and don’t want them to exist, so at least I’m consistent.
Gloria DryGarden
@scav: aren’t comb jelly fish a colony? Or, are they single individuals? I think I’ve seen them in bioluminescence pix. That’ll be my night time nature movie YouTube tonight.
But first I promised a friend in WNC a recorded meditation, for calm and to feel more positive. She just got power! She has heat! There’s a back way into Hendersonville, even though the main road washed out.
When I asked her if things had any semblance of normalcy, now that she has power, she gave me more deets. A tree fell on her heater. So her house is relatively, sort of intact, she’s hoping it works. And she’s got survivor’s guilt . It really sounds rough. Normal-ish, but not really.
I think TN and Augusta areas got power recently, as there are starting to be videos from their areas. Not sure I can watch anymore.
Chet Murthy
@Gloria DryGarden: Are you thinking of siphonophores (like Portugese man-of-war) ? Those are colony organisms; I think ctenophores aren’t. But I’m not a biologist: this is just what I remember from various YT vids.
TS
@Chet Murthy:
This is my husband’s reason for staying in our city – old age without the medical issues – you could live anywhere.
My Dad had to travel 300 miles to see his specialist/hospital visits & I used to take him most of the time (which was a double trip for me). If you haven’t got family willing/able to do this – a big issue.
HumboldtBlue
This is not good.
hotshoe
@lowtechcyclist:
I am so pessimistic by nature — mostly without basis since human ingenuity and goodwill have managed to muddle through natural disasters and political disasters my whole lifetime — and the best of us are working hard on engineering solutions for climate change, food supply, more durable housing …
But I think global climate change is really going to break our species. I don’t expect (or want) anyone to believe me about that, you should discount what I say from my pessimistic bias. Things like this hurricane just bring it forward for me. I do expect that civilization will collapse because we humans have no idea how to rearrange capitalism and national boundaries to deal with one billion or more climate refugees.
It’s not just the MAGAts and their ginned-up insanity about Haitians in Ohio or whatever. It’s not just the predictable collapse of all real estate in Florida and the relocation of fragile old folks to former home towns where there’s no one to care for them.
Thing is, even the billionaires who count on being able to fortress-compound a Montana estate with a private army won’t be able to buy immunity from disaster. And they won’t be able to get bananas for love or money. Or coffee. Or chocolate.
Everything is gonna change. I’m obscurely glad that I won’t be here to see it and I don’t have any grandkids to worry about, either.
RaflW
My BF’s mom needs a new car. She picked a Corolla Cross, but couldn’t test drive it, they’re in such demand. We went back on Saturday because they had a Corolla Cross Hybrid she could test drive (she’s not getting the hybrid, too expensive, and at 79 & 80 she and hubs don’t really drive that many miles a year).
We looked at the sticker, the car is $42,000. Because it include about a $3,600 “market adjustment” … adjusted UP, of course. It’s clear that people want to make at least some personal choices that would lessen their impact. But rather than make enough hybrid cars to meet demand _at sticker price_, the answer is to jack up profits. This is not a virtuous cycle.
NotMax
@Westyny
Difference being we’ve advanced technologically enough to provide lead time on approaching hurricanes and to estimate their track.
1999. Tornado with 300+ mph winds.
lamh47
@SatanicPanic:
which…why would folks even be surprised…she was a DA in a dangerous city and AG… Can you imagine the number of death threat a big city DA/State AG gets…you betta believe I’d have gun too.
Ruckus
@CaseyL:
With modern rapid transit, it is relatively cheap to get pretty much any place in LA County, where I live and was born. Most of the time it’s also very easy. I have a car (that I am considering selling reasonably soon – that age thing again…) and senior’s rapid transit that will take an old fart to most anywhere local a lot cheaper than car insurance. And a supermarket a mile walk away. All of this is to say that some places to live actually want it to be rather easy and useable, especially for those that possibly would be better off not driving or owning a car. My insurance savings would easily pay for all my public transit needs. Maybe 10 times over.
eclare
Wait, I thought Joelle was coming?
NotMax
@RaflW
That “market adjustment” rests entirely on the individual dealership, not with the manufacturing company. Goes directly into the dealership’s bank account.
At the time I eventually did get my hybrid Maverick some dealers were upcharging as much as $10k. Which was a doubly awful practice because at that time dealers could not order them; the only way to get a hybrid model to sell at all was from orders by individual buyers. So they wouldn’t have any to sell at any price unless someone in their area had previously placed an order with Ford online.
Ksmiami
@hotshoe: I think AI will do us in long before AGW does…
JaySinWA
Milton has all the earmarks of nature doing a double tap. A second attack on the people doing the clean up after the first. I have an acquaintance that went to their Florida condo for clean up. I hope they stay safe.
Jackie
@HumboldtBlue: My daughter and family live in Winter Haven, Polk County which is inland, but almost directly due east of Tampa, and they’re expecting (at this time) to expect 84 to 110 mph winds plus 5 to 8 inches of rain. All I can do is hope they’ll survive significant damage. They are INLAND.
I can’t imagine what Tampa is going to deal with.
JaySinWA
@Ksmiami: If energy consumption reports are to be believed, AI will go hand in hand with climate change in our demise.
KatKapCC
@HumboldtBlue: Absolutely terrifying. I can’t begin to imagine.
jonas
It’s not really faith, but bucks. As (iirc) Upton Sinclair put it, it’s hard to get a person to understand something when their paycheck depends on their not understanding it. As long as our society and economy are soaked in fossil fuel jobs, advertising, and lobbying, not much is going to change.
Gloria DryGarden
@dm: shit! The ocean data collection is based in Asheville? Oh, man
@Bill Arnold: but have more babies!
suddenly it looks like an absolute waste of our political energy to be focusing on taking away womens rights to safe private healthcare. We need to have been focusing on putting pressure on the industries and processes that make the most global warming effects. I need a chart. I knew it wasn’t simply individuals that could change it
what will it take?
kwAwk
My first thought is that we are seeing history repeats itself. The reason the American south didn’t develop economically and industrially in the first place had a lot to do with the weather. Who wants to build in Florida when A) it is too hot to work comfortably and B) everything is going to get knocked down every few years by a hurricane anyways.
But we drained the swamps, invented air conditioning, and came up with large scale insurance companies and government bail outs and then the South became mass inhabitable.
But these southern states who have fought us on global warming are going to get quite a wedgie from the free market as we’re already seeing insurance companies refuse to issue insurance for these states which will make building and living there much less attractive. Companies who build factories down there will eventually get sick of seeing their factories shut down for weeks at a time and look build elsewhere. And honestly, eventually the majority of the America people will eventually grow tired on continually having to kick in and help rebuild these states, and say enough is enough.
cain
@Chet Murthy:
I loved my last job because it was basically building sustainability in datacenters. For instance, you can re-use the output of a datacenter to grow plants in greenhouses. You can re-use old equipment that comes from Facebook and other places and build them in different form factors. It was so rad. I felt like I was doing something great.
Sadly, our division got dissolved when the parent company was bought out by another company (because their equity firm that owned them wanted to cash out)
cain
@kwAwk:
Yeah, and then they’ll go look for blue states to move to. Stay the fuck out of the northwest. (I’m only talking about the maga people)
–ly Ballou
@Ruckus: At this point I feel confident in stating that anyone who votes for that fucker actually cares a great deal about other people, in the sense of being actively malevolent toward them and wishing to bring them harm. Which unfortunately describes a wide swath of humanity as well.
Gvg
@Chet Murthy: and if you look, Florida is hardly changed. It’s the states above us who didn’t really expect to get hit that have lights out. Also the part of Florida that Helene hit is very unpopulated. When you have to drive through it, there are hardly any radio stations and it’s long stretches of road. It was kind of scary before cell phones and towers. People usually preferred the longer interstate route.
Milton is headed for one of our biggest cities, with several other big populations next to it. Even if this Hurricane swerves, it’s going to hit bad places. And the geography of that bay is something the doom and gloom forecasters have been explaining for decades.
KSinMA
@Matt McIrvin: Thank you!
wjca
But you’ve never bragged about being able to shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue. Or ranted about the 2nd Amendment.
jonas
@hotshoe: I don’t know about civilizational collapse, but I think it will likely mean the end of our current standard of living and probably a return to something like people experienced with rationing during WWII, esp. with food. It just drives me bonkers, for example, how people fail to grasp that most of the food inflation over the past couple of years wasn’t driven by economic policies or even Covid, but weather. Drought in the southern Plains and TX wiped out the beef industry. Bird flu and rising grain and soybean prices sent egg prices higher. Climate-change-fueled weather crises are going to put increasing pressure on the world’s food supplies from now on and the American public has no clue who or what’s to blame because the MSM and their politicians are idiots and/or cowards. It’s like the scene in Idiocracy where Luke Wilson is trying to make people understand that they can’t keep watering their crops with Brawndo*.
*The Thirst Mutilator!™
Marc
I’ve been living in the Bay Area just long enough to remember when the city of Alameda and all of the Contra Costa towns/cities east of the Berkeley Hills (Concord, Walnut Creek, …) were still “sundown towns” with known KKK presence. As late as 1985 a young Black guy fell asleep on a BART train after work and didn’t wake up until he got to Concord, they found him the next day near the BART station, hanging from a tree on someone else’s belt with a suicide note which was not in his handwriting and misspelled his own name (ruled a suicide, of course). Thankfully, times have changed, although I still have no desire to live in any of those places.
KatKapCC
@wjca: Oh, I have certainly ranted about the 2nd Amendment. But in a wholly negative way. If time travel were possible, I’d go back to the founders and show them videos of automatic weapons and then slap them and yell REWRITE IT, BITCH.
Gvg
@RaflW: 2004 season was 4 major hurricanes in one year. We went on. Some people moved but not that many really. It’s also why we are mostly calm about dealing with hurricanes, and no longer whine about closing schools and businesses ahead of time. It’s just something you do. So no, 2 in ones season won’t make most people leave. It may make some leave the coast, which it should. Florida really could adapt, if we would pull back from the coast some.
jonas
And we haven’t yet had a situation where there’s some huge July heatwave in a place like Phoenix or Houston and the power goes down for two days. The death toll would be apocalyptic.
NotMax
History tidbit.
The surprise hurricane that nearly killed Katharine Hepburn in 1938.
wjca
And the response would by: “Why the hell do you think we said ‘A well regulated militia…’?!? That means the state militias [i.e. the National Guard], not just any moron. You guys are the ones who screwed this up!” And they wouldn’t be wrong.
jonas
@Marc: Most people don’t recall that the 1848 Gold Rush brought a slew of Southerners into CA with pro-slavery sentiment and it was not at all clear in 1861 that California wouldn’t join the Confederacy or become a kind of Pacific coast border state. There was another influx of former Confederates after the Civil War as well that made California a hotbed of white nationalist/KKK activity for decades after and well into the 20th century. Dust Bowl migration from OK, TX, and AK in the 30’s brought more people with unreconstructed racial attitudes. CA never had Jim Crow like the Deep South, but it was a pretty shitty place to be non-White until relatively recently.
KatKapCC
@jonas: It hasn’t been awful where I am on the Central Coast, but friends in parts of the Bay Area have had a few 100+ days in October, too. Horrid.
VFX Lurker
Gorgeous, moving film. I’m so glad you saw The Wild Robot in a theater!
Chet Murthy
@Marc: Oh wow. I visited SF in the summer of 1985, checked out Stanford and Berkeley for grad school. If I’d chosen Berkeley, that could have been me: I’m brown enough after all. Oof.
KatKapCC
Scott Pelley has NFLTG apparently!
wjca
@KatKapCC:
It occurs to me that at least some in the MSM have decided that TCFG is losing. So there ceases to be any potential future benefit (e.g. access) in going easy on him.
And, since he’s been nasty to them for years, the knives are coming out. It’s FO time for him; FAFO.
RaflW
@kwAwk: Anywhere in Colorado that has wildfire risk (“all of it, Katie”) is getting a “wedgie” on insurance. Back to back 30-40% annual premium increases, and some HOAs are just not able to get regular insurance (in which case increases have been in the 200-300% range. Utterly unsustainable).
And if the GOP gains more power in the US, does anyone really think they’ll have any policy solutions? Hahahaha, nope.
Jay
@RaflW:
Raking the forests more, turning on that yuuuuuuge tap in Canada,…….
Using HARRP to make it wetter?
HumboldtBlue
@KatKapCC:
The thing that pisses me off about that clip is that Trump wasn’t “grazed by a bullet” and there was no assassination attempt.
Two men died at that Butler event, and Trump wasn’t even scratched.
HumboldtBlue
Gov. Tim Walz on Jimmy Kimmel.
Gretchen
@HumboldtBlue: That scared the shit out of me seeing an older meteorologist trying not to cry when reporting what he thinks is going to happen.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: I looked up HAARP just now, and it appears it’s just research and study. Someone just threw it up at me on a thread elsewhere, as proof that they can indeed control the weather. Shucks.
Marc
@Chet Murthy: I grew up in the Boston area, there were large portions of that city (Charlestown, East Boston, South Boston) that were basically off-limits to me (or any other POC) until well into the 90s. The Bay Area cities were mostly an improvement. The main issue in the 80s and 90s where I lived (Mountain View followed by Sausalito) were the cops, they seemed to have some difficulty seeing the difference between a software engineer and a drug dealer. Moved to Oakland and I’ve been happy here ever since.
Gloria DryGarden
@HumboldtBlue: “All I want for Christmas is to never hear his voice again.”
Jay
@Gloria DryGarden:
HARRP has been a weather conspiracy since at least the 1980’s.
Everything old is new again.
Chet Murthy
@Marc: I remember reading about South Boston and the busing riots. I’m sure there was a lot of racism there; heck, I’m sure there’s still a lot of racism in the Boston area. But the idea of sundown towns, the idea of a Black kid getting lynched, literally lynched, in the Bay Area, and in my adult lifetimes, just blows my mind.
It’s like during COVID, when Asian-Americans were getting attacked in SF and Oakland. Sure, I get that cops murder Black and brown kids: that happens everywhere in our country. But little old Asian ladies? Attacked for -being- little old Asian ladies? In The Bay Area? Where Asian-Americans have lived for nearly 200 years? My mind boggled.
TS
They never stop. They never accept the majority. They will attack women until we are dying on the streets from their draconian laws.
I was protesting at Parliament House (congress equivalent) in the 1980s when this fool’s father was trying to stop abortion 100%. Together with his dozen brothers and sisters he sat in the gallery and saw the fool defeated. It took another 30 plus years before we got the criminality removed – and now they want it back again.
Just to note – in Australia the liberal party is RW to the core. Our last esteemed liberal PM flew to Washington to pay homage to trump.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-08/queensland-election-abortion-lnp-alp-katter/104445154
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
Dropped mine off yesterday as well, also in front of city hall.
Bet it’s a different city but then it might not be…
NotMax
@Ruckus
But how can you be rock solid sure it wasn’t an AI generated city hall?
//
Citizen Alan
@Chet Murthy: Who was the psychopath who bragged about mispronouncing Thai food as “thigh food” on dates and if the woman corrected him he’d never go out with her again? Desantis? Vance? One of the freaks who’s been in the news this year, I’m certain.
NotMax
@Citizen Alan
Hoe gowchee.
:)
Matt McIrvin
@Chet Murthy:
There sure is! It’s still amazingly segregated, too, if you look at the racial distributions.
Matt McIrvin
@Gloria DryGarden: HAARP is about shooting radio waves into the sky to affect a small part of the ionosphere–basically it’s about making artificial space weather, and has nothing to do with low-atmosphere weather.
One of the conspiracy theories that was going around about it was that the widespread auroras visible earlier this year were really HAARP. They were slightly closer to the mark there because HAARP installations really can make a kind of faint, localized artificial aurora, but of course they really can’t make them happen all over the world (and the whole point is to study space weather like what was naturally happening at that time).
Matt McIrvin
@jonas: Hurricane Beryl gave Houston a taste of that. It caused some blackouts that coincided with a heat wave. I saw an attempt to estimate the death toll somewhere, not sure it’s clear.
Gloria DryGarden
@Matt McIrvin: thank you
wjca
Just FYI, there were also parts of Oakland, e.g. East Oakland, where you well advised not to go unless you were a POC. Especially after dark. It wasn’t totally a one way thing.
Marc
Uh huh, the main reason I was able to get a very nice house for very little money was that most white folks were afraid to go anywhere into Oakland (as well as East Palo Alto) at night in the 90s. Just a clue, I knew several white people who lived in East Oakland back then. Now, if you were going to East Oakland then looking for drugs, you’d be on your own. ETA, another story: I knew a white couple who owned a house in the Richmond Hills, they used to say they lived in El Cerrito, as white people were convinced Richmond was a crime-ridden hell hole.
Carol
@Gretchen: I grew up in tornado alley and I would prefer a hurricane to a twister. You have time to get out of the way if you’re smart when a hurricane threatens. Besides, there are plenty of twisters that accompany hurricanes.
@Gretchen:
bluefoot
@Marc:
I left the SF Bay Area in 2003, and it was changing then. But I remember those days in the 80s and 90s. When going through the Caldecott tunnel was a risky thing for a POC. Hell, even in SF, there were parts of town that were essentially off limits to me. I was back there a few months ago, and it seems like things may be reverting to the bad old days a little…
bluefoot
@Marc: I live in the Boston area now, and parts of the area still aren’t comfortable for me to be in. Hell, I’ve been stopped by a cop in broad daylight in Somerville for walking while brown.
And unofficial redlining is definitely still a thing here. That’s been both my experience and confirmed by a realtor friend.
Joelle
Best news I’ve heard all day! See ya tomorrow Snookums!!!