Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

People are weird.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Dems *NOT* in Disarray

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Dems *NOT* in Disarray

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Meanwhile…


(MTG on Alex Jones)

Saturday Morning Open Thread 33

(Ann Telnaes via the Washington Post)

Reader Interactions

226Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Two things are true.

    1. Dems should think about the male vote and how to appeal to them.
    2. Despite our best efforts, a lot of men will run away from us for the same reason white people did — because we stand up for the rights of people they want to have status over.

    Never blame ourselves for other people’s behaviors.

  3. 3.

    Suzanne

    Hi everyone! I am back! Got in yesterday evening with Mr. Suzanne….. we spent the last 9 days touring Egypt for our anniversary. Epic and wonderful.

  4. 4.

    NotMax

    OT for your delectation. Weekend long watch.

    The wreck of the SS Laurel. Notably includes a segment about a teenage lad with major cojones, Billy Gay (12:15 – 13:36).

  6. 6.

    Central Planning

    @Baud: I’d like that moron to explain what bodily autonomy laws have been passed or revoked that affect men.

    ISTM bodily autonomy should be the first thing on everybody’s mind regardless of whom they are.

  7. 7.

    RaflW

    I think of myself as a nonviolent person (and in real life it’s very true), but damn, I just looked at Harris Peskin’s Xitter bio and I want to punch him in the face.

    They guy has every goddam privilege in the world, and he’s whining that Kamala isn’t catering to guys. Shut up and write another check as penance. And I say that as a white guy!

    Yes, of course, any campaign should figure out ways to appeal to many constituencies. I don’t really want to give Peskin much merit here, but what does he think Harris isn’t doing ‘for men’? Is he basing this slapdash critique on what the MSM is probably not saying about her speeches and policies? Or has he given them a listen, paid attention to what, for example, average white dad-guy Tim Walz has said about where the Harris-Walz admin would go?

    I’m gonna say “I doubt he even knows in any detail what his complaint is. It sounds like feelz to me. So, yeah, buck up dudebro.”

  8. 8.

    Nukular Biskits

    Good mornin’, y’all! Been a long week.

    The Ann Telnaes cartoon reminds me of this (forgive the long excerpt here):

    “‘Forgive me if I am not justified in what I ask,’ said Scrooge, looking intently at the Spirit’s robe,’ but I see something strange, and not belonging to yourself, protruding from your skirts. Is it a foot or a claw.’

    ‘It might be a claw, for the flesh there is upon it,’ was the Spirit’s sorrowful reply. ‘Look here.’

    From the foldings of its robe, it brought two children; wretched, abject, frightful, hideous, miserable. They knelt down at its feet, and clung upon the outside of its garment.

    ‘Oh, Man. look here. Look, look, down here.’ exclaimed the Ghost.

    They were a boy and a girl. Yellow, meagre, ragged, scowling, wolfish; but prostrate, too, in their humility. Where graceful youth should have filled their features out, and touched them with its freshest tints, a stale and shrivelled hand, like that of age, had pinched, and twisted them, and pulled them into shreds. Where angels might have sat enthroned, devils lurked, and glared out menacing. No change, no degradation, no perversion of humanity, in any grade, through all the mysteries of wonderful creation, has monsters half so horrible and dread.

    Scrooge started back, appalled. Having them shown to him in this way, he tried to say they were fine children, but the words choked themselves, rather than be parties to a lie of such enormous magnitude.

    ‘Spirit. are they yours.’ Scrooge could say no more.

    ‘They are Man’s,’ said the Spirit, looking down upon them. ‘And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it.’ cried the Spirit, stretching out its hand towards the city. ‘Slander those who tell it ye. Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end.’

    ‘Have they no refuge or resource.’ cried Scrooge.

    ‘Are there no prisons.’ said the Spirit, turning on him for the last time with his own words. ‘Are there no workhouses.'”

    – A Christmas Carol, Stave 3: The Second of the Three Spirits

  9. 9.

    Baud

    @Central Planning:

    Yeah, there’s a big incel/men’s rights community on reddit. From what I can tell, online feminists being mean to them is just as bad as red states forcing women to be baby makers.

  11. 11.

    p.a.

    Point this out to the usual suspects and I’ve found it effective in at least watching them try to change the subject: He was up for 2 Emmys, lost, claimed he was cheated.  Cruz beat him in Colorado in ’16, he claimed he was cheated by Ted Cruz & the Colorado Republican Party.  When he’s been a defendant & lost the prosecution, judge, & jury (if any) cheated.  When he’s been a plaintiff & lost, the defense & judge cheated.  He lost in ’20 and claimed he won and was cheated.  Can you see any pattern here (asshole? (optional)).

    And then don’t let them change the subject.

  12. 12.

    Rusty

    A few days ago I was listening to a white middle aged guy going on about how he is “the father” and his kids won’t listen to him.  Really, it’s a bunch of white males that want everyone to “know their place”, be that children, women, people of color and so on.  “Their place” being below the white male.  I’m just so embarrassed for my cohort, what shitty humans we are.

  15. 15.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Baud:

    Two things are true.

    1. Dems should think about the male vote and how to appeal to them.
    2. Despite our best efforts, a lot of men will run away from us for the same reason white people did — because we stand up for the rights of people they want to have status over.

    Never blame ourselves for other people’s behaviors.

    RAmen!

  18. 18.

    Betty

    So surprised there is something I agree with Bill Maher about. For once he isn’t being a wise guy.

  19. 19.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: I could absolutely see Cairo being an amazing Olympic destination, in, say, January. They would need to figure out pollution and the insane traffic culture.

  23. 23.

    RaflW

    @p.a.: As we all know, but his fans pretend not to (or are too dumb), Trump does nothing but cheat and scam. It’s his baseline, and I think the most defining thing about him — and why he is so utterly unqualified — is that he projects onto everyone else that they simply must be scammers and dishonest, too.

    I think he cannot even conceptualize that other people act from a base of honesty. That some (maybe many) of us think compassion is a quality of strength.

    What continues to shock me is that vast organizations, many of which presume themselves to be operating from a base of integrity, cannot or will not come to the conclusion that Trump is totally morally deficient, and as such a huge risk, and so they motor on in service to a monster they seem as incapable of apprising as he is of grasping honor as having merit.

  25. 25.

    Wapiti

    @Rusty: We had a conversation once, my siblings and I, with my dad present (but he mostly listened), about whether parents ‘own’ the kids or if they are ‘merely’ custodians, with a responsibility to get the child to adulthood. All the sibs agreed we were custodians.

  26. 26.

    Mousebumples

    Good morning!

    I’m planning to do more postcards tonight. Done with my 300 Postcards to Swing States for Wisconsin, so probably Postcards to Voters.

    Their current campaigns with available addresses include –

    1. Sherrod Brown (OH Senate)
    2. Chris Deluzio (PA)
    3. Will Rollins (CA)
    4. Laura Gillen (NY)
    5. James Skoufis (NY)
    6. Michigan Supreme Court
    7. Micheal Garza (GA)
    8. Andrew Cole (GA)

    I think a lot of those are US House races, but I’m not sure. I’m probably going to write for Brown or MI Supreme Court. We’ll see. 😊

  29. 29.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    @Betty: I have been arguing for years with my wife about Bill Maher.  I know he’s a raging douchebag but she always wants to hear his opinions.  Last night, however, she got really pissed at him because he ended on a super obnoxious segment on KH.

  30. 30.

    stinger

    When I think of the number of elections I’ve lived through without politicians trying to appeal in a meaningful way to the “female vote”….  It’s like y’all just can’t stand it when you’re not centered.

  31. 31.

    Trivia Man

    @Suzanne: I happen to know of a “blog” that publishes reader photos every weekday. I can provide a link if you ate interested, maybe you’ll get lucky and be selected!

  34. 34.

    Suzanne

    @Trivia Man: Literally just this week. And just a very little bit. But the most important artifacts are still at the existing museum in Tahrir Square.

    Our guide, who is an Egyptologist, said that they don’t really have a firm strategy on how to move some of those items, and that it will take years to do it.

  38. 38.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Mousebumples:

    Yay for postcarding and for you!

    James Skoufis NY state senator running for reelection
    Michael Garza running for state House of Representatives in Georgia
    Andrew Cole – for school board in Cobb County, Georgia

  45. 45.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Baud:

    I’ve mentioned on occasion enjoying the short stories of outdoor humorist Patrick F. McManus.  He had a story in which he discussed how such words should be used ONLY by old people as they were the only ones who could do so responsibly.

    I’ll have to see if I can find that story again.

  46. 46.

    Starfish

    @RaflW: Some people need to quit consuming so much prosperity gospel. God did not make people rich because they are righteous, smart and worthy. Some people are rich because they stiff the help and cheat on their taxes.

  48. 48.

    Suzanne

    @Trivia Man: Our guides were fantastic. Super-knowledgeable. I will also note that — other than a crazy traffic culture — we felt very safe the entire time.

    Our guide that day shared his memories of the protests in Tahrir Square in 2011. He was out there protesting for democracy. What a thing.

  49. 49.

    Argiope

    That may not be Marjorie’s meemaw but she’s clearly somebody’s meemaw and MTG knows she is busted. Funny how that voice of truth and disappointment can break through where hundreds of journalists have failed.  Also today is my first canvass shift for Sherrod Brown and the down ballot Dems. I shall return with stories from the field.

  50. 50.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    @Baud: We’ve been watching every Friday night on HBO for however long it’s been on.  Cripes.  Looked it up. 22 years.

  51. 51.

    frosty

    @Suzanne: Welcome back! I didn’t see your nym so it looks like you managed to take a vacation from B-J too (something I haven’t managed!). Send some pix to OTR!

  52. 52.

    New Deal democrat

    @RaflW:
    Here’s a link to his social media feed:
    nitter.poast.org/HarrisPeskin

    He’s thoroughly anti-Trump, and is canvassing in Philly for Dems. He’s talking about flying to MIchigan to canvass there as well.

    He is not an enemy.

    Here is the Xit he was replying to:

    “To be clear, I’m not saying we need to worry about women less, or change any positions. I’m saying the polling around young men is concerning, and if it turns out to be true, we need to have a discussion about how condescending we are coming off to a huge part of the electorate.”

    He says:
    “ We may not want to hear it but this is what the data reflects. There is a massive loneliness epidemic in this country which is disproportionately affecting men. Instead of calling them incels or mocking them, we should be willing to hear out their concerns.”

    The data does indeed reflect a *slight* shift rightward among young men.

    And I heard this same complaint from a 30something white male friend this week: that Dems do come off as elitist and condescending to the working class.

    FWIW.

    Which doesn’t mean Dems are doing anything wrong. Biden is as working class as they come, very pro-Union and pro-worker, saved the Teamsters’ pension fund, and yet a majority of their rank and file are for Trump.

    Personally, I think a lot of men just want an @$$hole, provided he is *their* @$$hole. See: Jackson, Andrew.

  56. 56.

    frosty

    @Central Planning: bodily autonomy laws have been passed or revoked that affect men.

    Nobody likes this answer, but with a 34 in the lottery, the Vietnam-era draft sure affected my bodily autonomy.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @frosty:

    It’s not an issue anyone today realistically faces.

    Also, too, it was the right that defeated the ERA based on scare stories about women being drafted.

  58. 58.

    NotMax

    @Starfish

    The Gospel of Wealth.

    Carnegie made it clear that the duty of the rich was to live modest lifestyles, and that any surplus of money they had was best suited for re-circulation back into society where it could be used to support the greater good. He shunned aristocratic chains of inheritance and argued that dependents should be supported by their work with major moderation, with the bulk of excess wealth to be spent on enriching the community. In cases where excess wealth was held until death, he advocated its apprehension by the state on a progressive scale: “Indeed, it is difficult to set bounds to the share of a rich man’s estates which should go at his death to the public through the agency of the State, and by all means such taxes should be granted, beginning at nothing upon moderate sums to dependents, and increasing rapidly as the amounts swell, until of the millionaire’s hoard, at least the other half comes to the privy coffer of the State.” Source

  59. 59.

    Starfish

    I am seeing the thoughts of my first Trump supporter of the season. She is an extremely smart person, but the foundation that she is building her thoughts on are very stupid.

    Can you imagine reading anything Chris Rufo writes and not requiring five pages of sources before you accept it as the truth?

    I am not going to say anything because she just lost her husband to cancer though.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    @New Deal democrat:

    Instead of calling them incels or mocking them, we should be willing to hear out their concerns.”

     
    I can’t agree with this. Either we never mock anybody, or we mock all haters equally. I don’t think we should discriminate against disfavored groups.

  61. 61.

    Argiope

    @TBone:

    @Baud: thanks, y’all.  I always have to gear myself up to do it but afterwards I’m glad I did.  Hoping to convince a friend to come with me to try it out today—my goal is to take one newbie per shift.  It’s only weird the first time.

  62. 62.

    frosty

    @Suzanne: ​@Baud: ​I’ll jump in. First, are there different topics or locations you can isolate for a post? Settle on those. Then it’s the really tough part of picking out 10 good pix for each that tell a story. Once you’ve done that the captions write themselves. At the end you’ve got a good photo album for yourself instead of a flash drive full of pix you don’t remember taking. Have fun!

  63. 63.

    JiveTurkin

    Didn’t think originally it would be this big a deal, but the Elon Musk vote buying could seriously hurt in PA.  He’s trying to buy the presidency.  IMO, not Trump, but Vance.  He is beholden to Peter Thiel, but Musk could buy 10 Thiel’s, so JD will toss him aside in a heartbeat.  A Trump victory means we are much closer to a true oligarchy.

  68. 68.

    RevRick

    That photo of the line waiting to vote in Asheville notwithstanding, early voting in the 13 Western NC counties affected by Helene are way down. In the two blue counties, Buncombe and Watauga, they are down 75% and over 50% respectively from 2020. Overall, they’re down almost two thirds in those counties. And given that most of those early voters were Democrats, there’s a lot of ground that needs to be caught up.

  70. 70.

    p.a.

    @Starfish: Can you imagine reading anything Chris Rufo writes and not requiring five pages of sources before you accept it as the truth?

     

     

    I remember someone factchecking a book by, IIRC, Ann Coulter (remember when she was a thing?) and having like 60pps of corrections just from Coulter’s introduction. 😂😂😂🤪

  71. 71.

    TS

    @Baud: They are still hoping for “some emails” or the FBI to run in at the last moment & support them for not telling the truth about trump.

  73. 73.

    p.a.

    @Baud: yep.  The poutrage is built into the conservative mindset.  If they’re not mocked, they’ll claim they’re mocked anyway.  Or claim the font they’re communicated with is insulting etc.  Anything…

  74. 74.

    Starfish

    @p.a.: Ann Coulter comes and speaks at the local university every few years because the student Republicans invite her, and Talking Points USA foots the bill.

  79. 79.

    frosty

    @Argiope: That’s been my experience too. The gearing up to do it is tough, canvassing is tough, but usually there’s at least one contact that makes it feel worthwhile. I haven’t found any suckers newbies to come along with me in 20 years of trying though. All my Maryland Democratic friends! You’d think they’d want to make a difference!

  80. 80.

    p.a.

    @Starfish: I get the feeling Laura Ingraham is a few wrinkles away from being “Coultered” to the C/D list.  Ya get in bed with the sexists, you know how you’re gonna get treated.

  81. 81.

    TS

    @New Deal democrat:

    And I heard this same complaint from a 30something white male friend this week: that Dems do come off as elitist and condescending to the working class.

    So how do republicans come off as – their best friend who will make sure white men have it all & everyone else is their slave.

    I have no answer to the lack of understanding that some people have about their own privilege. They think women should be supported but don’t want that to impact anything about their own lives. They think they have the right to rule – as do republicans.

    If the GOP wins this election, women are back to being pregnant vassals in the kitchen – if they are not deported or locked up. Methinks too many men are happy about this.

  82. 82.

    citizen dave

    I was listening to the Shrinking Trump podcast (two psychiatrists documenting orange guy’s declining state) (new eps on Fridays) and they were reviewing the 39 minute music session from earlier in the week.  And this morning the Howard Dean scream thing popped in my head.  That was in 2004 (I was thinking it was in the 1990s).  ONE non-normal incident and Dean was drummed out of the race.  We are light-years from that time, at least with the orange guy.

  83. 83.

    frosty

    @Raven: And you seem to be able to pull good ones out of the 27,000 so there must be some organization. I’m in awe of all the ones you have from your younger days. I didn’t carry my camera around as much as I should have.

  84. 84.

    trnc

    @Baud: ​
     It would definitely help if Kamala would come right out and say that she does not support laws to make husbands and boyfriends go see chick flicks or to outlaw Jackass reruns.

  86. 86.

    p.a.

    @NotMax: Hmmmm… you know how much cash is made by slapping an eagle superimposed on a flag on a spatula and calling it a Tactical Meat Assault Tool?  Imagine a font created from eagles contorted into letter shapes!

  89. 89.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: Instead of calling them incels or mocking them, we should be willing to hear out their concerns.”

    I can’t agree with this. Either we never mock anybody, or we mock all haters equally. I don’t think we should discriminate against disfavored groups.

    The fact of the matter is that our public officials, elected Democrats, and prominent talking heads don’t talk about people this way. These are normal people they’re running into on the street and internet.

    Now can we have a word about big name Republicans talk about Democratic voters?

  90. 90.

    trnc

    @Rusty: ​
     

    A few days ago I was listening to a white middle aged guy going on about how he is “the father” and his kids won’t listen to him.

    I’d need more context. “Because I said so” sucks as a parent tool, but kids can be obstinate even when reason is attempted.

  92. 92.

    RaflW

    @New Deal democrat: Sometimes Dems do come across as condescending. But I think it is more often how the media reports on Dems that emphasizes dumb details.

    Think about the whole freaking ‘arugula’ incident with Barack Obama. Like who the f*ck cares if he likes arugula, and yeah it’s bougie and all that. But it’s his personal food choice, he wasn’t telling car mechanics they can’t get a Whopper at the drive-thru on their way home or grilling a giant steak on the weekend.

    Joe Biden has been the most pro-union president in my lifetime. I trust that Harris will continue that work, even if it isn’t as high a priority for her as it has been for him. Unions, of course, are not as male-dominated as a generation ago, but being pro-worker is fundamentally anti-elite, isn’t it?

    Way more important than some vibes about Dems being stuck up.

    (I’m jet lagged and cranky this morning. Just spent a week in socialist hellhole Sweden having a lot of political conversations with my many well educated, mostly working class, mostly left-of-center cousins. Eye opening how those two can combine in a population that isn’t as blinkered as ours.)

  93. 93.

    Rusty

    @Wapiti: I would be the custodian model too.  Best parenting advice i ever got (we have raised 4) was parenting is a continual process of letting go.  That is incompatible with the ownership model.  The guy i was listening to was very much the authoritarian, ownership model.

  96. 96.

    Eunicecycle

    @Baud: Didn’t Vance just complain about his kids (age 6, 4, and 2) and ask if someone could knock some sense into them? Nice guy.

  97. 97.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @TS: Joe Biden doesn’t come off as elitist at all.  Nor does Tim Walz.  Honestly, neither does Harris.  They sound intelligent, well-informed and able to use complex thinking skills to address complex political issues…just like we should want in our politicians.

  99. 99.

    Another Scott

    re Polymarket – Medium.com has an article about using a VPN to use it from the USA.

    Of course, argle bargle blockchain crypto set real money on fire for virtual magic beans, and attract attention of the feds, probably.

    Put the weave on the blockchain. – fake Andrew Yang on DougJBalloon, probably.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100.

    Ken

    @Baud:  it was the right that defeated the ERA based on scare stories about women being drafted.

    Don’t forget the scare stories about unisex bathrooms. Which we have now anyway, because so many stores and restaurants found it was cheaper that way.

  105. 105.

    trnc

    @New Deal democrat: ​

    “ We may not want to hear it but this is what the data reflects. There is a massive loneliness epidemic in this country which is disproportionately affecting men. Instead of calling them incels or mocking them, we should be willing to hear out their concerns.”

    But, again, what are their concerns? As a white guy, I’m having a hard time imagining what I should expect dems to be fighting for on my behalf that isn’t either punching down on some other demographic OR a policy snipe hunt based on at least partially imagined grievances. Eg, if the complaint is “immigrants are taking the jobs,” unemployment has remained much lower than under the last few republican presidents AND dems were ready to pass and sign the border security bill that DT tanked.

    If there are actual men’s issues that are being ignored, I’d love to know what they are, but my guess is that they’re being addressed by dems where possible, but not explicitly as men’s issues.

    ETA: Thanks for adding context about the guy tweeting.

  106. 106.

    gene108

    @New Deal democrat:

    Instead of calling them incels or mocking them, we should be willing to hear out their concerns.

    I got a certain level of sympathy for incels. If such a thing existed 30 years ago and was as easily accessible, I could see myself falling into it.

    It’s not easy for some people to overcome whatever lack of self confidence or self esteem they have, and for younger men this can display as anger towards something outside themselves.

  107. 107.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @UncleEbeneezer: They sound intelligent, well-informed and able to use complex thinking skills

    I’ve been hearing Dems referred to as elitist my whole life while confused by the very obvious observation that Ds are very clearly pro-worker and pro-opportunity. Republicans seem to be on the side of completely unencumbered capital.

    It never made sense. For years. Then you wrote that. Does “elitist” simply mean “has reasoning skills” after having been put through an MSM distortion field?

  108. 108.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @trnc: As a white guy, I’m having a hard time imagining what I should expect dems to be fighting for on my behalf that isn’t either punching down on some other demographic OR a policy snipe hunt based on at least partially imagined grievances

    Failing that, they could do things that help everyone. But I think they already got the memo.

    @Eunicecycle: Didn’t Vance just complain about his kids (age 6, 4, and 2) and ask if someone could knock some sense into them? Nice guy.

    Community note: This is not how sense is attained.

  111. 111.

    Ken

    There’s a management principle (which management never seems to grasp, but that’s another story) that if you define success by some score or metric, people will find ways to game the system to increase their score. Eventually this makes the metric useless.

    I see that the 538 “average of polls” has been thoroughly gamed. Aw well, it had a good run.

  112. 112.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @NotMax: We aren’t doing enough. Every retail facility should be required to provide 150 separate bathrooms, minimum, to accommodate every niche and nuance of gender identity.

    ETA: Until I can walk into a “Soy Boys” bathroom at Target, I will not feel seen.

  113. 113.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    WRT to polling I’m starting to wonder if the quality polls are re-weighting their samples in response to the junk Republican ones…I don’t know that’s happening but it seems like something that might happen.

    As far as men go…what exactly has Harris said or done to criticize, belittle or insult men writ large rather than one particular target rich man? Other than having a vagina that is?

    What gender specific policies is she pursuing other than reversing Dobbs, which it would be extreme political malpractice not to be emphasizing? I’ll wait while some male who feels insulted or ignored answers those questions… hearing nothing I’m sensing a lot of straw man bullshit excuses covering for misogyny.

    Besides which… what do men want? More jobs in manly occupations like manufacturing and trades? Well she’s got plans to help people buy homes and other plans to build a bunch of new housing units. So there’s a bunch of new construction jobs and jobs for HVAC, electric and plumbing occupations. She held a rally just yesterday in front of the UAW supporting more good paying union manufacturing jobs. So it seems like at least some of what she’s proposing gives men a lot of what they seem to be asking for. But she’s not a gratuitous asshole serial abuser of women…if that’s what it takes to make men feel heard, well, yeah she’s never giving them that.

    I say this by the way as a white straight man in his mid 50s. JFC men of America get over your whiny ass bitch selves.

  114. 114.

    TBone

    Went to post office to mail a birthday gift.  The clerk was gracious, helpful, and very nice throughout, until I asked about ballots (which the County assured me were mailed out Oct. 7 and have been received at our branch Post Office).  The clerk got a little perturbed and flustered when I asked if she’s seen any ballots and said “Well, I’ve seen them stuffed in our boxes here, to be delivered, they’re probably going out any day now.” Then she gave me a wry smile that seemed a bit nefarious.  Dang.

  116. 116.

    gene108

    @RaflW:

    Sometimes Dems do come across as condescending. But I think it is more often how the media reports on Dems that emphasizes dumb details.

    Think about the whole freaking ‘arugula’ incident with Barack Obama. Like who the f*ck cares if he likes arugula, and yeah it’s bougie and all that.

    It’s not about “arugula” or “Dijon mustard”, or media portrayals, but looking down on pro-wrestling fans, fans of “The Fast & Furious” film franchise for liking that “crap”, etc., and that is very much something that happens in liberal circles and even this blog in setting boundaries of who is in and who is out of the group.

  119. 119.

    Ken

    @The Audacity of Krope: Are you riffing on the Pennsylvania school district that, after a takeover by rightwingers, has created five different kinds of student bathrooms?  And they’re installing windows so people can see into the bathrooms from the hallways, in case you were still unsure which party has the unhealthy fixation with children’s genitals.

  121. 121.

    Another Scott

    @The Audacity of Krope: I assume “elitist” is shorthand for:

    Not from around here, not like us, doesn’t understand us, has different ideas than our tribe’s mantras (and has evidence to back up those ideas), and we don’t want to talk about that so we’ll shut it down calling it “elitist”.

    It always goes back to tribalism and code words to exclude others that challenge the existing power structure.

    “Yankee” had very similar baggage when I was a kid growing up in the Atlanta suburbs.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  122. 122.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Ken: No, I had not heard of that. I was thinking of my high-school former bestie obsessing for years over the notion of 168 genders or whatever internet meme.

    What you described sounds appalling, though. Doesn’t surprise me. Malicious compliance is the Republican default. And when they actually try; man, listen…

  123. 123.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Spent 2.5 weeks in Italy, got back a week ago.  We had great tour guides, me and my wife.  Took 3 friends from back in DC.  We’d taken them to Rome and the Amalfi Coast in 2019.  This time it was Lake Como, Verona, Venice and Trieste.

    Too overwhelmed with civic stuff since I got back to see about posting.  Hell, I’ve been meaning to post a day-by-day account of our hike of all of Hadrian’s Wall 2 years ago and have never gotten around to doing it.

  125. 125.

    Captain C

    @New Deal democrat:

    Instead of calling them incels or mocking them, we should be willing to hear out their concerns.” [NDd quoting someone]

    On one hand yes we should hear people out, on the other hand, when someone is determined to be repulsive and abusive (especially to women) and then complains that no women will voluntarily associate with them (or want their fun parts), maybe they should learn how to be better to those around them rather than demanding sympathy and concessions.  At some point, this sort of demand starts to sound like sealioning.

  126. 126.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @gene108: It’s not about “arugula” or “Dijon mustard”, or media portrayals, but looking down on pro-wrestling fans, fans of “The Fast & Furious” film franchise for liking that “crap”, etc.,

    Arugula is just crispier, more voluminous, worse tasting black pepper. Fight me. Dijon is best used sparingly.

    I’m not one; but the pro-wrestling fans in my life are, if not Democrats, emphatically not Republicans. Fast and the Furious is fine for bland entertainment in the background while a room full of people talk.

    I haven’t encountered partisan delineations on opinions about any of these commercial products in real life, only on the internet and amplified by the media.

  127. 127.

    Captain C

    @Baud:

    I can’t agree with this. Either we never mock anybody, or we mock all haters equally. I don’t think we should discriminate against disfavored groups.

    Also this.

  128. 128.

    hrprogressive

    A lot of childish white men are justifiably angry that their existence didn’t match their father’s or their grandfather’s – IE, a sole working man could provide for his family, work hard, get paid well, retire with a pension and a gold watch, and never be wanting for anything.

    And as a white man, I get it.

    However these overgrown children have been lied to about just why that it is.

    It’s not immigrants. It’s not black or brown people. It’s not gays or trans people.

    It’s the super-rich white men who you wanted to be like who stole your future and your children’s future from you, because the shareholders demanded fealty and tax cuts and deregulation, and because the Republicans tapped into your lizard brains with fears about “Being Replaced” you didn’t realize your pockets had been picked clean, your house foreclosed upon, and your children’s future vanished in a puff of smoke.

    When white guys like me say “Tax the fucking rich” it’s because I get it, even though I’ve been more fortunate than most.

    My situation can’t really be compared to a lot of lower-working-poor who don’t have degrees and/or are without children to support, or various other things that make me different from a lot of my quote unquote brethren.

    But I damn sure have watched over the last 25 years how the Republicans have sold people on their fears and their worst impulses while literally robbing them blind.

    You wanna be mad, bro? Be mad at the right fucking people.

    Are the Democrats perfect? Fuck no.

    But what you miss because they accept all those people you either fear or hate or loathe is that, if given the opportunity, they might actually do some things to stop the destruction of the American Dream in subservience of the shareholders.

    It would be a heavy fucking lift, sure, and it might not go as far as some of us want.

    But it’ll never happen if you dudes keep voting for the actual thieves stealing out of your pocket every single day just to “own the libs”.

    Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

  130. 130.

    Central Planning

    @frosty: That’s a fair answer. My dad was affected by that too. I wasn’t thinking that far back – only to Dobbs or so.

  131. 131.

    hrprogressive

    @gene108:

    Not all pro wrestling is the same as it was 20-40 years ago.

    You can find openly transgender and openly gay performers in major promotions these days and nobody bats an eye.

    Not gonna claim it’s all sunshine and rainbows, but as dude who recently rediscovered his love of the squared circle, just food for thought here.

  132. 132.

    Captain C

    @Eunicecycle:

    Didn’t Vance just complain about his kids (age 6, 4, and 2) and ask if someone could knock some sense into them? Nice guy.

    “You know, if I were to smack my kids around like they deserve, all the libs would be in an uproar.  Clearly I am the most courageous fellow around.”  — JV Vance, probably

  135. 135.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @NotMax: We’re measuring now? Ball side or top side? Does the part that gets covered up when you gain weight still count? It’s still there. How about a trans-rectal ultrasound just for kicks?

    I was thinking a more internal vibes based system than physicality.  Oh, the dysphoria that would trigger…

  138. 138.

    scav

    The existential angst of not automatically being first in all circumstances and not being admired for all one does, participates in or amuses oneself with.  The unprecedented horror of having to wait one’s turn.  My god, the anxiety, the crippling anxiety!

  139. 139.

    UncleEbeneezer

    David Corn:

    What was most interesting in this article, though, was what it said about the margin of error: “The real margin of error is often about double the one reported.” What? Read that again. Double the margin of error. “A typical election poll sample of about 1,000 people,” Pew tells us, “has a margin of sampling error that’s about plus or minus 3 percentage points.” That’s usually the number you see associated with a poll. Three percent. That doesn’t seem so bad.

    But there are other errors. If you must know, they are called noncoverage error, nonresponse error, and measurement error. I’m not going to go into the technical details here. But this is the bottom line from Pew: “The problem is that sampling error is not the only kind of error that affects a poll. Those other kinds of error, in fact, can be as large or larger than sampling error. Consequently, the reported margin of error can lead people to think that polls are more accurate than they really are…Several recent studies show that the average total error in a poll estimate may be closer to twice as large as that implied by a typical margin of sampling error. This hidden error underscores the fact that polls may not be precise enough to call the winner in a close election.”

  140. 140.

    Another Scott

    @NotMax: [ memories ]  My boss had a Win3.1 machine that would crash on picking a particular menu item in Word.  We eventually figured out it was a bug in the graphics driver.  [ /memories ]

    Computers are weird.  Winders is a nightmare…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  141. 141.

    KatKapCC

    What are the political “concerns of men” that are exclusive to men? What are the issues at stake in any given election that solely and heavily impact men, and that are not talked about at all? As Madame Veep once asked, “Can you think of any laws that give government the power to make decisions about the male body?” I mean, the draft? That’s not currently in use, it’s highly unlikely it would be brought back, and I’d bet if it was, there might be a push — including from some women! — to have women included in it. What else?

    No one is saying men don’t matter. But men acting like because they aren’t the main matter right now, it means they never have been is laughable beyond belief.

    (n.b. that this ends up being a binary discussion because the majority of the public still cling to the gender binary, but of course things like abortion rights do impact some men)

  144. 144.

    zhena gogolia

    @KatKapCC: The local MAGAs have a conspiracy theory that Congress voted in the middle of the night to send our boys to Ukraine. Really. I’m sure it comes from Facebook.

  146. 146.

    KatKapCC

    @zhena gogolia: It’s kind of stunning how absolutely dumb as dirt they are. They don’t even seem to understand that if someone was “sent to Ukraine”, they would also not be here in the US anymore.

  147. 147.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @zhena gogolia: I do recall a recent little boomlet of concern among my younger friends that we would be reinstating the draft. I legitimately had no idea where it was coming from. I certainly hadn’t heard of any legislation proposing that and we’re not conducting any ground invasions.

    So what the fuck?

  148. 148.

    Captain C

    @KatKapCC: “Well don’t you know, they sent the super secret 13th Division that nobody knows about, except for the people on my Discord server.  You see, my sister’s cousin’s best friend’s brother’s friend told me her friend Ferris got drafted into it last night at 31 Flavors…”

  149. 149.

    kalakal

    Good morning all. Have finally regained working internet access after the fun that was Milton. None of us hurt, house undamaged, didn’t even lose power, which is pretty amazing as we were 40 miles from the center of a Cat 3 hurricane.

    Locally damage not too bad, go 10 – 20 miles south .and it’s much worse.

    Lost about 7 trees and the garden is trashed, even had a 45ft palm in my swimming pool, but wow, did we get lucky. Next time I’m evacing

  150. 150.

    Eunicecycle

    @KatKapCC: I don’t understand why all men don’t consider abortion an issue for them, too! If they’re married, it affects their family planning and their wives’ health. If they’re not married, they may be forced to be a father when they’re not ready. If they’re already a father of a young women, it affects their daughter’s health and future. It comes down to it’s not a decision that should be made by the government.

  152. 152.

    KatKapCC

    @Eunicecycle: For a portion of men who think mEn’S cOnCeRnS should be front and center in this election like they have been in every election since the beginning of time, they still refuse to see the idea of an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy as that big of a deal. The type of man who compares rape to getting punched in a bar fight. (And yes, I have encountered said type of man.)

    Some of them are basically this in human form.

  155. 155.

    frosty

    @The Audacity of Krope: ​Baby Steps. Oriole Park at Camden Yards was designed by a woman architect. Which is why there are an equal number of stalls (or urinals) in both the men’s and women’s bathrooms.

  159. 159.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Central Planning:ISTM bodily autonomy should be the first thing on everybody’s mind regardless of whom they are.

    Yes, seriously, half the women in family would be dead from bad pregnancies if these Bible bothering chuckleheads  had there way.   Protecting the women and the children is supposed be hardwired into our brains, WTF is wrong with these degenerates?

  160. 160.

    dnfree

    @citizen dave: There are a lot of things that come to my mind as being in the 1990s that were actually in the first decade of the 2000s.  We’re almost a fourth of the way through this century and my mental sense of time has not caught up.

  163. 163.

    BlueGuitarist

    @RaflW:

    iirc Obama’s point about arugula was that Iowa farmers could benefit from the high price of arugula by growing more of it as part of increasing crop diversity.
    This got turned into the pretense that he was whining about the high price of  arugula in order to fit the pre-ordained narrative of Democrats as, in the words of Spiro Agnew, effete impudent snobs.

    How are things going for Brienne Brown?

  166. 166.

    Layer8Problem

    @The Audacity of Krope:  But are any of us truly capable of such discernment?  We might hurt someone’s feelings.

    So the solution is obvious — we have to shut down this blog.  Immediately.  Q.E.D.

  169. 169.

    TS

    @hrprogressive:

    It’s the super-rich white men who you wanted to be like who stole your future and your children’s future from you, because the shareholders demanded fealty and tax cuts and deregulation

    Thank you for saying this – it was Thatcher & Reagan & the Friedman with the monetary economic theories that gave to the rich & took from the middle classes. Marginal taxes used to be high, cities and counties and states could afford to surface their roads & build their town halls – then the money stopped coming into government & the few got wealthy while the many lost their services, their unions, their pay increases and eventually their jobs.

  173. 173.

    dnfree

    @KatKapCC: Many people who haven’t been pregnant severely underestimate the strain on the pregnant body and the likelihood of complications.  It’s like they take the “vessel” part literally.  Just mix the sperm and egg, put it in the uterus, and wait 9 months, as if it were a crock pot.

  174. 174.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @dnfree: Just mix the sperm and egg, put it in the uterus, and wait 9 months, as if it were a crock pot.

    Crotch Pot.™️

  175. 175.

    dnfree

    @frosty: There should be MORE stalls in a women’s restroom.  The degree of undressing and recombobulating is generally greater for women.

  176. 176.

    EngineerScotty

    Some men want to undo #MeToo, they see prohibitions on sexual harassment and such as a violation of their rights.

    Just the same… if I was s young dude worrying about when and where I might get laid, I would worrying far more about the religious wacko in the gop  than the Democrats.  Women are far less likely to hook up with you without adequate safeguards.

  177. 177.

    BlueGuitarist

    Latest from temper tantrum prone Wisconsin Republican Derrick Van Orden, (WI-3) who last I had heard was screaming at teenagers in the Capitol:
    From politicalwire 

    Two farmers from western Wisconsin are speaking out after a meeting last month on agricultural policy with Republican Rep. Derrick Van Orden was derailed by the congressman when he and his staff interrupted and yelled at them, taking issue with the farmers’ apparent political affiliations,” the Wisconsin Independent reports.

    Theres a thermometer at hand to help Rebecca Cooke retire this guy 

  179. 179.

    Jeffro

    Jamelle Bouie: one thing about trump that I’m not worried about

    There is no question that both Trump and his allies will denounce the results if, on Nov. 6, the day after the election, it appears that he has lost. Hell, there is no question that Trump will immediately declare victory on Election Day and try to pressure election officials in swing states where he is leading to stop counting the votes. There is also no question that if he does lose, he will try to prevent individual states from certifying their electoral votes in hopes of triggering a contingent election in the House of Representatives.

    All of this has liberals understandably scared. But here’s the thing. The best outcome for Trump is still just to win the election. His ability to reverse a loss is limited to his ability to inspire others to commit crimes on his behalf. Remember, the Electoral Count Reform Act of 2022 clarified that congressional counting of the electoral votes is a formality and has no real bearing on the outcome. The Jan. 6 method is off the table. More important, Trump is not the president. He has no legal authority. If he loses, he’ll be just another private citizen, urging other private citizens to commit state and federal crimes on his behalf.

    Some may do so on account of his cult of personality. But many others won’t. It is one thing to break the law for the elected representative of the entire country. It is something else entirely to break the law for someone who is just a guy. And if Trump suffers a decisive defeat, civil society will almost certainly coalesce around Kamala Harris, making any attempt to disrupt the results next to impossible.

    This is not to say that it is silly to worry about what comes next if Harris wins; there is, for instance, the real chance of post-election violence. But the fact of the matter is that Trump has a better chance of winning outright than he does of overturning a defeat.

    I really, really like the idea of trump being charged with a whole new slate of state and federal crimes on November 6th.

    (or just stroking out, of course)

  180. 180.

    KatKapCC

    @dnfree: Yeah, I don’t have kids, but I know from friends/relatives of mine that even the “best” and “easiest” pregnancies are still massively disruptive and impact your body in numerous ways, some permanently.

    I swear, some folks act like you’re just carrying the fetus around in your pocket or something.

  181. 181.

    frosty

    @KatKapCC: Yes, if the draft came back it would almost certainly include women. They’re serving in combat, they’re on ships in the Navy, they’re fighter pilots, they’re integrated into the services, at least on paper.

    ETA To your other point, abortion rights do affect men. With the laws passed now in the retrograde states, both my brother and I would be widowers.

  182. 182.

    KatKapCC

    @frosty: Wild too that the same men who love to scream about the “female privilege” of not being drafted will then turn around and sneer at the idea of women in the military.

  183. 183.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Starfish: Love it.  Indeed, I honestly think single occupancy bathrooms are the ideal with or without the adorable “unicorn” moniker.

  184. 184.

    AWOL

    @p.a.: I think she achieved that when she fucked fellow criminal, rapist, racist, religious sociopath, and seditionist Dinesh D’Souza at Dartmouth.

  185. 185.

    gwangung

    Generally, mocking on our side attacks people who a) hypocritical, or b) have power. We don’t punch down and mock people who are sincere and have little power.

    Don’t mock incels or white men? Doooods….now you’re REALLY asking for it.

  186. 186.

    citizen dave

    @dnfree: Ha!  Glad to hear I am not alone.  When you get old thinks really do blur together.  I catch myself wanting to make references to the young people at work and realize what I was about to say happened before they were born…

  187. 187.

    SatanicPanic

    @hrprogressive: there’s still things to complain about here and there but overall WWE got a lot better. I took my wife to a show this year and she was expecting a MAGA rally. After seeing Seth Rollins and Rhea Ripley she was hooked.

  190. 190.

    EngineerScotty

    @SatanicPanic: it seems a lot of MAGA fans of competitive pugilism have moved over to MMA and such. I suspect Vince McMahon being ousted did nothing to slow this trend.

    Of course, McMahon had long been the public face of WWE in a way that commissioners of other sports are not.

  191. 191.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @hrprogressive:

    You can find openly transgender and openly gay performers in major promotions these days and nobody bats an eye.

    Ummm. Remember last year when Bud Light sent transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney a personalized beer can for a promotion she did, and the resulting backlash from cultists cost the company $27 million and cut their market share in half. Pepperidge Farms LGBTQ+ people remember.

  192. 192.

    Mousebumples

    @BlueGuitarist: and I’m pretty sure my angel match is still active! Let’s take that pesky government job out of his schedule to allow him to spend his whole day yelling at clouds.

    I’d wonder if he was yelling because of bad internals, but he seems generally yell-y overall.

  193. 193.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @EngineerScotty: seems a lot of MAGA fans of competitive pugilism have moved over to MMA and such.

    A fan of truly competitive pugilism would never have been drawn to the WWE. I have a lot of friends who like it but I don’t see the appeal.

    I do enjoy MMA.  The fights are more interesting. A wide variety of techniques are used, hence the first ‘M’. Also, as a friend once observed, “this is the only way you can watch S/M porn with the str8 boys.”

  196. 196.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Captain C:

    On one hand yes we should hear people out, on the other hand, when someone is determined to be repulsive and abusive (especially to women) and then complains that no women will voluntarily associate with them (or want their fun parts), maybe they should learn how to be better to those around them rather than demanding sympathy and concessions.  At some point, this sort of demand starts to sound like sealioning.

    In my experience “but what about the menz” always ends up being sea lioning. My good dudes, I’m sorry that you’re lonely and angry, but doubling down on being repulsive and abusive to women is not going to get you dates. But then again, they really don’t want to be with women, they want someone who provides them with on-demand sex, who also cooks and cleans for them, and caters to their every emotional whim.

  197. 197.

    SatanicPanic

    @EngineerScotty: I hope McMahon being gone continues the trend! That guy is a horrible POS. I think they know where their audience is and women and PoC performers are doing really well. People love Rhea or Bianca and would revolt if they started calling them Divas again.

  198. 198.

    Baud

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    But then again, they really don’t want to be with women, they want someone who provides them with on-demand sex, who also cooks and cleans for them, and caters to their every emotional whim.

     

    Well, when you put it like that, it does sound attractive.

  199. 199.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Sister Golden Bear: But then again, they really don’t want to be with women, they want someone who provides them with on-demand sex, who also cooks and cleans for them, and caters to their every emotional whim.

    Trust me, to most of this cohort, “and has a vagina” matters.

  200. 200.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: Chris Cunningham, Nevada’s Libertarian Senate candidate, is a professional Mario Kart driver. He dropped that from his Twitter bio after he received the Party’s Senate nomination and now describes himself as an ESports commentator. Cunningham wanted to present a more serious front than Mario Kart Driver and DJ.

    Cunningham’s commentary on the recent debate between Senator Jackie Rosen and Republican Sam Brown showed a serious approach to the issues, but it seems that he’ll likely attract more Republican than Democratic voters. The Republican primary was somewhat divisive and there were hard feelings afterwards.

  201. 201.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Geminid:

    Not just toured, but hiked the entire thing, and then some, from east to west, scattering my Mom’s ashes (she was a massive Anglophile) along the way.

    I just did my first “On The Road” submission, mountain camping trip, as sort of a test.  I’ll do the Hadrian’s Wall bit as a series, day-by-day, I promise.

    In the meantime, here’s one of my favorite photos from the trip:

    flickr.com/photos/63463131@N00/shares/xD2043CkVw

    And nice play on words, pics/picts. ;)

  203. 203.

    artem1s

    The Republicans are manipulating Polymarket odds to create the illusion that most Americans expect Trump to win,

    This is not their goal. Their goal is to get betters to sink even more of their money into a sunk cost. Go to their website.  Polymarket
    You can “vote” whether Michelle Obama will be the VP candidate on the day of the election. i.e. there are gamblers stupid enough to believe this was a likely thing to happen when the Harris was vetting her VP’s and they were willing to spend money on the off chance MO would accept when she’d made it clear she has no interest in holding public office. You can still “vote” cough throwmoneyaway cough on a number of people getting Dem VP nod, including Walz (27 cent payout on a $10 bet now).  Those who “voted” on MO will get an enormous payout if it does happen.  Right now the payout is $3K+ for a $10 bet.
    You can “vote” on any number of things. Trump’s margin of error in FL. Biden resigning before the election. Whether Harris will win all 6 swing states. 12% odds right now, payout of $33.33 on $10 bet. I would have expected that to be higher given how Trump is supposed to be riding huge red wave.

    Personally I’m appalled that 270towin has Polymarket even listed on their website. They must be getting a huge add buy to include them in their forecasts. They also added another betting sight in the last week or so called Kalshi Odds. As a non-profit they should be ashamed of themselves and the IRS should yank their 501c3 for it and investigate them for taking charitable donations to run a website that’s supposed to be non-partisan and information based. But is clearly colluding with a political campaign to turn a profit. If their contract with these betting sites is incentive based (the more times I click thru to Polymarket the more 270toWin gets paid) then they are violating IRS charitable giving laws. They are in fact endorsing candidates for elected office – best case for them it’s a clear violation of their charter. Worst case they are participating in money laundering and crypto frauds.

    These sites are designed to attract rubes who think “voting” on these betting sites will sway what 150M+ people will do in the privacy of their homes and in the polling booth. It’s wish casting. It’s the equivalent of wearing the same socks while watching your favorite sports team and buying another pair every day and pulling them on top of the old pairs because if one works, surely 10 more will work even better.

    This shit is no more polling than asking “voters” how many times they said the rosary for or against a particular candidate or counting the number of twitter follower or people who go to their rallies (Bernie actually won both the 2016 and 2020 election but it was stolen dontchaknow).

  204. 204.

    artem1s

    @RaflW: I’m gonna say “I doubt he even knows in any detail what his complaint is. It sounds like feelz to me. So, yeah, buck up dudebro.”

    yea, well good luck. the deal was if they let Harris be the nominee when Joe dropped out the dudebros (who fomented the coup) would get to spend the next decade mansplaining how the girl was doing everything wrong. these people are not acting in good faith. she’s the one in charge now and nothing about that will ever make them happy because that’s what they are unhappy about.

  205. 205.

    Ruckus

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    WTF is wrong with these degenerates?

    Every damn thing. (simple answers to simple questions)

    Many men do not see equality in any way, shape or form. They are superior in every single way, just ask them. It is of course BS.

    I live in a seniors apartment complex and there are more woman who live here than men. The vast majority of them were married at some point but they aren’t any longer. I don’t know all of the stories but many of them left assholes who didn’t actually respect them. Women are half of humanity. Many men are not really the other half. This world was at one time dependent upon basic strength for survival, but we passed that long, long ago. And women can be and are strong. Just look at seniors and see how many of them live longer than men. I see them every day. Many men may be physically stronger, but then why do women seem to live longer? One of my female neighbors is 98 yrs old, the oldest male I know is in mid 80s.

  206. 206.

    EngineerScotty

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    Perhaps.  There has been far bigger shift from boxing to MMA, and I suspect that the racial dynamics of late 20th century boxing (Latinos often dominating the lower weight classes, Black men the upper) has a lot to do with it, with the alleged corruption of the sport (Don King!  A zillion different belts!  Did I mention Don King?) being offered as an excuse.

    But some fans of such simply want a show, and don’t care if it’s staged or not.  One other shift, I guess, due to the Internet is that nobody any more pretends that “wrasslin” isn’t staged–everyone’s in on the joke.  Which is fine–Julius Caesar wasn’t stabbed on that stage, either; they’re just performers.  When I was young, it seemed that quite a few fans still treated it like it was a competitive unscripted sporting endeavor, though maybe they were part of the kayfabe and only pretending for non-fans.

  207. 207.

    EngineerScotty

    @Ruckus: That there are more women than men in a senior housing facility should be no surprise–as you note later on, women live longer.   I’d be surprised if there weren’t as many widows, if not more, than divorcees.  But then again, I don’t know your area; if any of those women left a bad marriage, more power to them.

    Other than that, your post is spot on.

  208. 208.

    Captain C

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    But then again, they really don’t want to be with women, they want someone who provides them with on-demand sex, who also cooks and cleans for them, and caters to their every emotional whim and likes this situation for themselves (even if they’re not enjoying it).

    I think the bolded part is an important addition to your excellent point.

  209. 209.

    Bill Arnold

    @TBone:

    The 11th Hour Faith Leaders Meeting

    That is … concerning. Good article, with some short profiles of key figures. (Tools of evil, most of them.)

  210. 210.

    SatanicPanic

    @EngineerScotty: I realize now that I prefer the fact that wrestling is staged. Because with wrestling it’s 100% certain that the guy I don’t like will get his ass kicked. Probably multiple times in the space of a few months.

    On the other hand in real sports it’s very possible to live a long life and never see your team win a championship. I don’t understand the appeal. I like going to see baseball but I’m a fair weather fan and I’m not sorry about that.

  212. 212.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @rikyrah:

    Kamala’s takedown of Bret Baier for deceptively editing Trump’s “enemy within” video is powerful because it bursts the MAGA bubble. – Greg Sargent

    Sorry Mr. Sargent, there is no substance known to science that can burst the MAGA bubble.

  213. 213.

    Gravenstone

    @zhena gogolia: This’d be the same Congress that can’t be arsed to come back in session to address FEMA budget issues due to back to back major hurricanes?

  214. 214.

    Ruckus

    President Joe Biden is a real human being. He doesn’t have to work at it, he understands human and being and doesn’t have to prove it, it’s obvious. Kamala Harris is very much in that same group.

    djt is in the group of “I’m better than everyone else on the planet and I can prove I’m wrong in the first 10 seconds I speak.” His audience is people like him – without the false bravado.

  215. 215.

    artem1s

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    But she’s not a gratuitous asshole serial abuser of women…if that’s what it takes to make men feel heard, well, yeah she’s never giving them that.

    I say this by the way as a white straight man in his mid 50s. JFC men of America get over your whiny ass bitch selves.

    Perfect! I appreciate your feedback on this and here is why… This cry to listen to these aggrieved men (and they are not just white) can’t be addressed by women. The men in their lives have to be their sounding boards. No woman should have to sacrifice one minute of her time nodding her head in agreement over an issue that is not fact based or falsely framed especially when that false framing means she must give up her autonomy. It’s a demand for free emotional labor. The time when women were expected and forced to be the provider of emotional support for every random guy in the room is over. If men aren’t willing to listen to their bros and accept reasonable correction (think AA sponsor) then they have no right to demand a women running for President should take the time to listen to them whinge about how women won’t listen to them.

  216. 216.

    Geminid

    @Bill Arnold: My Congresswoman was a U.S. Postal Inspector. Abigail Spanberger had lived overseas with her family while growing up, and when she applied to the CIA after college they said her security clearance would take some time to come through. So for a while she worked with the Postal Inspectors.

  217. 217.

    Mary

    @Suzanne:   Wow! That sounds fantastic. I hope you will share some of your photos. I am sure we’d all like to hear about your trip. Happy Anniversary!

  218. 218.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Sister Golden Bear: Or when they freaked out this week over two Trans models walking in the Victoria’s Secret runway show.  As someone online noted (paraphrase): you should be mad at these cheap, tacky-ass outfits and ill-fitting shoes, not at the Transgender models.

  220. 220.

    Citizen Alan

    @The Audacity of Krope: I’ve been hearing Dems referred to as elitist my whole life

    I distinctly remember laughing my ass off when Obama was accused of being elitist by Her Ladyship Lynn Forrester de Rothschilde.

  221. 221.

    Suzanne

    @frosty:

    Oriole Park at Camden Yards was designed by a woman architect. Which is why there are an equal number of stalls (or urinals) in both the men’s and women’s bathrooms.

     

    Equal quantity is now required by the IBC (and every state code that doesn’t use the IBC uses a variation of it with their state’s name). Only a few exceptions to that. Has been this way since the late 90s.

    I keep meaning to write a BATHROOMS post.

  222. 222.

    Ruckus

    @artem1s:

    I think we also have to look at history not all that long ago. Right or wrong, in the lifetime of people alive today, men did most of the physical labor outside the home (not in for sure but still in the paycheck manner) and most work was physical, within my lifetime. The world, at least a big part of it, has changed a lot in the last 3/4 of a century. Humanity, electronics, mechanical, travel, automotive, communications. I’m sure that I’m leaving out a segment or 12.

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