Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

Too little, too late, ftfnyt. fuck all the way off.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Fear and negativity are contagious, but so is courage!

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Wait, what?

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Trump should be leading, not lying.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Let me file that under fuck it.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Two Sides of the Coin on Canada and Mexico

Two Sides of the Coin on Canada and Mexico

by | 75 Comments

This post is in: 

First, both countries are sending help for the fires:

Premier David Eby says crews from British Columbia are joining the fight against wildfires spreading in the Los Angeles area in California.

On social media, Eby said the province had received a request from the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection for a senior management team to join the fight and that “they will be departing imminently.”

“California has been there for us. We will be there for them. That’s what good neighbours do,” Eby wrote in a post on Bluesky and X (formerly Twitter).

President Claudia Sheinbaum said Friday that Mexico was sending a team of firefighters and military personnel to Los Angeles to support the fight against the devastating fires.

[…] “We’re going to help, not just because the people and government of Mexico have always been generous, but also because there are a lot of Mexicans in this part of the United States,” Sheinbaum said.

The more that we publicize the help we get from our two best allies, the better.

Second, politicians from both countries are treating Trump’s nonsense the way it should be treated.  I wrote about Claudia Sheinbaum’s proposal to turn call part of the US “America Mexicana”.  Brian Beutler found at least one Canadian politician making a similar offer:

In response to Trump’s ongoing campaign to belittle Canada as the 51st state, the leader of the Canadian Green Party, Elizabeth May, suggested a different trade. “I don’t want to belittle Trump,” May said. “But on the other hand, hey Donald, have we got a deal for you. You think we want to be the 51st state? Nah. Maybe California would like to be the 11th province. How about it? California, Oregon, Washington.”

California (39 mil), Oregon (4 mil) and Washington (8 mil) have more citizens than the whole of Canada (40 million).

Anyway, Beutler thinks that we should adopt the approach of Sheinbaum and May:

Liberals today seem more inclined than in 2017-2020 to roll their eyes or mutter at his empty provocations, and move on. This is as much a mental-health exercise as a strategic ploy. It’s arguably a wiser approach to opposition than indiscriminate resistance, though of course it means we’ll err in certain edge cases—over-reacting to some things, under-reacting to others.

But a good way to resolve the debate might be to establish an informal rule: responding to Trump’s provocations is always acceptable if the effect is to belittle him; to make him look like a boob or a chump or a phony. Not “ahhh! this is dangerous!” but “whatever, clown!” Not “what about our norms!” but “try me.” Etc, etc.

Scolding Trump is pointless — he and his supporters just see it as “liberal tears”.  Walz was getting somewhere with “weird” until the Harris campaign consultants decided that kumbaya was a better approach.  That was wrong.  There’s about 30-40% of Trump’s support that is hardcore, the rest are vibers.  Well, the vibes around an old man saying ridiculous shit and getting laughed at by our allies, and by the other party, aren’t great.

Claudia Sheinbaum, who’s shaping up to be a great leader, showed us the way earlier this week, we just need to follow.

Reader Interactions

75Comments

  3. 3.

    Geminid

    I saw the news about the Mexican firefighters on several overseas social media accounts I follow. The LA fires are big news all over.

  4. 4.

    zhena gogolia

    Kamala Harris did nothing wrong. Her campaign was flawless and she was a million times better than her opponent.

  5. 5.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Walz was getting somewhere with “weird” until the Harris campaign consultants decided that kumbaya was a better approach. That was wrong.

    I agree whole hardheartedly.  I think if they pilled on after the Debate were Harris dog walked Trump and Walz just kept on pointing out what a freak show Trump is, she might of won.

  6. 6.

    trollhattan

    “Dear U.S.,

    “While your president is not an asshole, we share these precious resources with you in your time of need. Check back in two weeks for further updates.”

    Signed,

    Your next-door neighbors

  7. 7.

    azlib

    The Electoral-Vote folks got a letter from R.H.M. in North Haven, CT, who asked what would happen if Canada or all the Canadian provinces became states. Given the current Canadian polling such a move would seal a Dem majority for the foreceable future. I suspect some of Trump’s (the convicted felon) advisors will tell him to shut up about this particular gambit.

    Go to http://www.electoral-vote.com and scroll down for the resposne to R.H.M.’s letter.

  9. 9.

    Bartleby

    Add NY, NJ, and New England and the new Canada would have a population of about 125 million and a GDP of about $12 trillion.

  10. 10.

    Chris Johnson

    Goddamn it May.

    Vermont is RIGHT THERE. We’re already touching Canada. Come on. We can learn French.

  11. 11.

    oldgold

    Last night I was invited to a gathering along the Gulf of Mexico where adult beverages were served. I was the token Democrat.

    Two Canadian snowbird couples attended. I have known them for 2 decades. Generally, in the past they have been circumspect in discussing political matters.  That expressed, having listened to them closely over the years, their politics would roughly align with what you might have heard at a well heeled country club lounge in 2008.

    Well, about 2 liquid brain erasers in, these folks let loose – all 4 of them. They raged against the Mango Moron with heartfelt righteous anger.

    Of course, this is a microscopic sample size, but it was heartening to hear.

    Another bonus, on the way home the Mother Lode said, “Well, for once, tomorrow they won’t be talking about you.”

  15. 15.

    MagdaInBlack

    @zhena gogolia: She did nothing wrong. There are just some things (racism, misogyny ) that I do not know how you “message” for.

    And yes, I’m sticking with ridicule. We cannot let every yammer trigger us. I’m more concerned with the cover his yammering is providing to the real evil folks.

  16. 16.

    TONYG

    @catclub: Hmm.  About four decades ago I lived and worked in Worcester, Massachusetts for a couple of years.  A good number of Reagan fans among my co-workers back then.  Maybe Trump fans in that same region now?

  19. 19.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I agree whole hardheartedly.  I think if they pilled on after the Debate were Harris dog walked Trump and Walz just kept on pointing out what a freak show Trump is, she might of won.

    This is the one mis-step of what I thought was a very good campaign, especially considering the amount of time she had.  I don’t even care that much about Cheney’s presence and all that (though I don’t think it worked).  Walz brought something good to the table and it wasn’t used properly.

  20. 20.

    way2blue

    Trump is beginning to flex his rhetorical muscles.  For me, it’s essential that Democratic officials take a step back and made clear to the public that these flourishes from Trump are an attack on the rule of law, international institutions, the sovereignty of nations…  But also.  Don’t doubt his incendiary need to humiliate & dominate any and all who might serve as foils.

  21. 21.

    catclub

    @@mistermix.bsky.social: I don’t even care that much about Cheney’s presence and all that (though I don’t think it worked).

     

    I do care because it ended up being a  huge, completely wasted effort to find GOP voters that had previously voted for Trump.

  25. 25.

    Toeless Flenser

    For the ridicule to work, it must be unrelenting.  Never a Kumbaya moment, no matter how appropriate it may seem.  He & his must be mocked relentlessly.

    First, this is required to permeate the whatever-the-fuck the new media landscape is.  Second, it really pisses him & his off, and angry people make mistakes & overcompensate.  Third, it’s satisfying.

  27. 27.

    p.a

    Maybe just add some blue stripes next to the red ones on the Maple Leaf flag when we join.

     

    One of my subscriptions on tumblr is Maps on the Web.  Ploitical, geologic, demographic, any map about anything worldwide.  One of today’s was U.S., “More Important, Freedom to Vote or Freedom to Bear Arms” by state.  You can pretty much guess, except MO & KS NE IA FL were vote states.

    Also a nice cartograph of the countries tRump mentions.  N Korea is big.

  28. 28.

    catclub

    @way2blue: Trump is beginning to flex his rhetorical muscles.

     

    Translation: “The media are making even more strenuous efforts to sane wash random things that Trump says.”

  29. 29.

    p.a

    As far as ridicule, I know when dealing with a narcissist one-on-one, agreeing with them while laughing/showing you’re actually mocking them really sets them off.

  31. 31.

    trollhattan

    @catclub: ​
    The cognitive dissonance of seeing that would break my brain.

    Unlike ’16 I didn’t see a single Trump sign or flag in the neighborhood, but one is never free of the things either.

  33. 33.

    p.a

    Mass is blue, but it’s certainly not wall-to-wall blue.  No place is.  Look at some of its recent governors.

  35. 35.

    Shalimar

    Elon and his cult are basically at war with California.  I suspect they would love it if California, Oregon, and Washington seceded.

  36. 36.

    Lyrebird

    Thanks MisterMix, this is really interesting, and I really appreciate your earlier post on the Canadian responses, too.  Got there too late to comment meaningfully.

  37. 37.

    KatKapCC

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Key word is “might”. (Might have, not might of.) No one — ABSOLUTELY NO ONE — can say with even a smidge of certainty that “if A had been B, then C instead of D”. They could have kept screaming the word “weird” every minute of every hour of every day and she still could have lost.

    We really need to stop this hindsight living room quarterbacking that liberals seem to be addicted to doing.

  38. 38.

    RandomMonster

    Walz was getting somewhere with “weird” until the Harris campaign consultants decided that kumbaya was a better approach.

    Strange, I remember “weird”, “dipshit”, and other derisives being employed all the way to the end.

  39. 39.

    Shalimar

    @MagdaInBlack: I wish we would start messaging for racism by listening for everyone who disparages DEI and responding with “go fuck yourself, racist” instead of trying to defend smart hiring practices.

  40. 40.

    Shalimar

    @RandomMonster: I remember a lot of people going batshit over campaigning with Liz Cheney as if that was the only thing the campaign was doing rather than one of a thousand things.  It is like a conspiracy theory, trying to find one explanation instead of accepting that it’s really complicated.

  41. 41.

    Captain C

    Harris campaign consultants

    I’m generally one to be a team player regarding politics, but we really do need some better campaign pros, in particular ones who have realized that playing nice with people who have been on a three decade-plus streak of hate and irrationality (basically since Gingrich’s Contract on America) is a hopelessly ineffective strategy.  Whoever told Harris and Walz to stop pointing out how weird the Rethug party is should be blacklisted from working in Democratic campaigns or administrations (on any level) for life.

  42. 42.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    @RandomMonster:

    Strange, I remember “weird”, “dipshit”, and other derisives being employed all the way to the end.

    Yeah, I remember “dipshit” too.  What I’m referring to, specifically, is the VP debate. Historically, that debate is where the candidates try to go after each other.  Walz instead agreed with Vance to a nauseating degree.

  43. 43.

    Sure Lurkalot

    I originally planned to use “felon” in naming Trump in conversation but half of the country believes he was framed, the insurrection a tourist visit, stealing classified documents a process crime. So I’m going with “game show host” which his supporters can’t dispute, given Trump is still so proud of The Apprentice.

  44. 44.

    RandomMonster

    @Shalimar:

    It is like a conspiracy theory, trying to find one explanation instead of accepting that it’s really complicated.

    And limiting the explanation  to ones that can be conveniently pinned to some dimwitted strategic blunder, while avoiding the election landscape (hostile media, racist and misogynist voters, etc.).

  45. 45.

    Hildebrand

    @RandomMonster: Right?  I remember this, as well.

    My question is this – do the folks making the claim that the dreaded ‘consultants’ told Walz to knock it off have concrete proof?  I mean, show us the memo.  If not, it’s just more, ‘I didn’t like the Harris campaign’ vibes crap that gets us nowhere.

    And then, let’s cut the campaign – that if all the experts are right about electoral headwinds, it shouldn’t have been this close – a whole bunch of slack. Harris and Walz put together an excellent campaign, the voters (and non-voters) just couldn’t get past their own bigotry.  Maybe let’s stop shitting on Harris, yes?

  49. 49.

    RandomMonster

    @Hildebrand:

    And then, let’s cut the campaign – that if all the experts are right about electoral headwinds, it shouldn’t have been this close – a whole bunch of slack. Harris and Walz put together an excellent campaign, the voters (and non-voters) just couldn’t get past their own bigotry.

    This right here.

  50. 50.

    RandomMonster

    @@mistermix.bsky.social:

    What I’m referring to, specifically, is the VP debate. Historically, that debate is where the candidates try to go after each other.  Walz instead agreed with Vance to a nauseating degree.

    Vice presidential debates don’t decide elections.

  51. 51.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    @RandomMonster:

    Vice presidential debates don’t decide elections.

    They sure don’t.  But I, for one, was demoralized and disgusted after that debate.   So it had some effect.

    Also, the point of the post wasn’t to re-litigate the election, just to point out that Walz was onto something with his “weird” stuff and that it was a major misstep to not have it in the VP debate, and going forward, it would be good for us to encourage Walz and those like him to make comments like that.

    Also, the notion that consultants weren’t involved in the decision to mute the “weird” stuff and instead have a kumbaya debate is so politically ignorant that it boggles the mind.

  52. 52.

    New Deal democrat

    @Bartleby:

    Add NY, NJ, and New England and the new Canada would have a population of about 125 million and a GDP of about $12 trillion.

    If every Province and State were allowed to hold referenda on the matter, you would probably end up with a map of North America looking close to the humorous post-2004 election map labeled “The United States of Canada” and “Jesusland.”

  54. 54.

    Princess

    May is an idiot. Canada does not want to double its population by adding a lot of MAGATs, guns, and people who can’t get single payer healthcare adopted.

  55. 55.

    Princess

    @@mistermix.bsky.social: Agreed on the failed strategy of muzzling Walz. But the buck doesn’t stop with the democratic strategists. It stops with Harris. Tbh I think she did as well as we could expect, maybe better. But if you think there were failures of strategy, they’re on her, not on the people she hired.

  56. 56.

    zhena gogolia

    So sorry the Black lady didn’t perform to expectations.

    ETA: Just to be clear, I’m being sarcastic. This is so tiresome — Harris was brilliant and performed far beyond any presidential candidate I’ve seen in my lifetime. Far beyond.

  59. 59.

    Princess

    @Hildebrand: That’s another question. I’m taking the assertion of others that he was muzzled on the advice of Drn strategists for granted (“Are the evil Dem strategists in the room with you right now?” I sometimes want to ask.). My main point is that Harris is responsible for the good and bad choices made by the campaign.

  60. 60.

    Gvg

    @Hildebrand: There seemed to be a complete change of how he acted and spoke at a certain point. However….the media shows what it wants to. I have noticed that they can shape perception just by ignoring and not broadcasting things. So I am not certain of the cause.

  61. 61.

    Princess

    @zhena gogolia: Honestly, I agree. I think she turned a  potential electoral college blowout  loss into a close thing and saved a couple of senate seats. My only point, again, is that she’s responsible for the campaign, whether you think it was good or bad. Not some shadowy strategists.

  62. 62.

    zhena gogolia

    Yes. We the Democratic base refused to stand behind our candidate (the way the Republicans always stand behind theirs). Then after trashing our own candidate for a few weeks, we asked Harris to step up. She did. She did brilliantly. Our voters stayed home. Theirs didn’t. We lost — WE LOST not Harris. We are responsible. Not a damn bit of it is her fault.

  67. 67.

    catclub

    @Captain C: in particular ones who have realized that playing nice with people who have been on a three decade-plus streak of hate and irrationality (basically since Gingrich’s Contract on America) is a hopelessly ineffective strategy.

     

    Except Biden won in 2020 with it.  Not so totally ineffective.

  69. 69.

    zhena gogolia

    @catclub: So all those jokes about the MAGAs and their hoverrounds should really be directed at us? We just can’t get off our butts?

  70. 70.

    kindness

    No doubt Trumpies would take threats of California pulling out of the nation to join Canada/Mexico with amazing grace.  Really, it’s all the gunhumpers in the rest of the country need to drive here and start shooting everyone the come across.

  71. 71.

    YY_Sima Qian

    According to my Twitter feed, even Poilievre has read the room & is now pushing back against Trump, at least rhetorically?

  73. 73.

    Liminal Owl

    @catclub: Also South. The southeastern corner is amazingly Trumpy.

    eta: ah, @pluky beat me to it. One of these days I’ll get to a thread in time…

  75. 75.

    chemiclord

    @Shalimar: If Cascadia tried to secede, it would be the Second Civil War.

    Musk and his ilk are not content with what amounts to a national divorce.  They want California under their heel and licking their boot.

Comments are closed.