Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

A fool as well as an oath-breaker.

When I was faster i was always behind.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

To the privileged, equality seems like oppression.

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

I really should read my own blog.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / A Real Fucking Mystery

A Real Fucking Mystery

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A Real Fucking Mystery

Elon did this twice* at a rally.  Let’s see how our news media responded.

AP:  “Elon Musk pumped his fists as he spoke at the Inauguration Day viewing party at Capital One arena. He celebrated Trump’s victory, calling it “really important” and highlighting the new president’s promise to plant the U.S. flag on Mars — a longtime goal of Musk’s.”

NYT:  “Elon Musk ignites online speculation over the meaning of a hand gesture.”

Washington Post:  Nada, no mention at all.

Guardian: Elon Musk appears to make back-to-back fascist salutes at inauguration rally

The Guardian wins this round — wish they didn’t have so many TERFs working there.

Also, Amy Klobuchar is on BlueSky bragging about how great it is that we had a peaceful transition of power.  She also had some kind of a role at the Inaguration (I saw it on the gym TV so I’m not sure what it was).  The absolute inability to read the moment should be shocking, but after the last few years, it isn’t.

Edit: * Josh Marshall saw this and said Elon did it three times.

Reader Interactions

294Comments

  2. 2.

    Raoul Paste

    Fist pumping my ass.  And no human is planting the American flag on Mars during Trump‘s term

  7. 7.

    ruemara

    Our media betters are going to be typing what does the shooting squad mean right up until the bitter end.

  10. 10.

    ExPatExDem

    Wow, who would have thought that the white South African who grew up under the apartheid regime would be a Nazi?

    (raises hand)

  11. 11.

    Percysowner

     

    WaPo has announced that “Democracy dies in Darkness” has changed to “Tell Riveting Stories” so apparently Elon going all Nazi isn’t “riveting” enough.

  13. 13.

    oldgold

    CNN’s take:

    CNN’s Erin Burnett first called Musk’s action an “odd looking salute.” Her on-screen companion added, “it’s not something you see at an American political rally.”

  17. 17.

    Professor Bigfoot

    When the Republicans avidly waved their “MASS DEPORTATION NOW” signs they told anyone who’s read any history of the mid 20th that they were just straight up Nazis.

    Nazi rhetoric: “Vermin! Poisoning the Blood of our Country!”

    Nazi policy prescriptions: “MASS DEPORTATION NOW!”

    Nazi threats of political violence: Proud Boys, III Percenters, and the rest of the conservative “militia.”

  20. 20.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    @Baud: Here’s the image.  Weak, weak, weak.  Are they so wrapped around the Bibi/Gaza axle that they can’t see the plain truth in front of their face?

    A Real Fucking Mystery 1

  21. 21.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @Baud: Having worn out using the OK symbol for Nazi purposes, they are going for the full salute. Trump is going to be pissed that Musk and Melania’s hat are the things getting the most attention from his little event, isn’t he?

  23. 23.

    catclub

    @oldgold: Her on-screen companion added, “it’s not something you see at an American political rally.”

     

    Except, it obviously is something you see at a Trump rally.

  25. 25.

    ExPatExDem

    The corporate media is going to be zero help against the fascist regime.  They’re going to enable and abet it.

    They’re going to tell you to stop overreacting when the disfavored groups start getting put behind the wire.

    Same thing for Vichy democrats like Fetterman.

  28. 28.

    Elizabelle

    What the hell.  And how cowardly of our major MSM.  Afraid of being sued by the world’s richest asshole, I guess.

    Good for The Guardian.  They were the first news site I checked earlier this week that got it right with a headline informing that Elon’s Starship had blown up.  US sites were confusing.

    Blurb on the FTF NY Times website:

    SpaceX’s Starship Has Setback During 7th Test Launch

    While Elon Musk’s spaceflight company repeated a spectacular catch of its powerful booster stage, the upper stage was lost as it traveled through space.

    Setback.  The upper stage.  This was the middle of the night, and I was thinking: what happened?

    The BezosPost was a little more informative.

    SpaceX loses spacecraft after successful booster catch in Starship test

    The company said the ship experienced “a rapid unscheduled disassembly during its ascent burn.”

    The Guardian got right to the point.

    SpaceX’s Starship test flight ends in failure after spacecraft is destroyed.

    It made me wonder if AI was doing too much in the US newsrooms. The NY Times headline and story were terrible as originally provided.  Or did they wait until Elon himself tweeted that they’d had some failure with their launch?

  31. 31.

    banditqueen

    elon’s mommy will go to the media to tell us her li’l boy was just giving the salute of the Roman empire. And the response of our media will be sane washing–‘it’s hard to know, it’s playful…’–then bringing up the dem crimes of that one time someone talked about ‘defunding the police’. elon’s a nazi, he serves nazis, he promotes nazi propaganda.

  35. 35.

    ExPatExDem

    I honestly wish that the Obamas would move to Europe.  I don’t think we’re far away from an American version of the Night of the Long Knives.

  39. 39.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @oldgold:

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

  41. 41.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @@mistermix.bsky.social: ADL is one of the sad examples of orgs who let their pro-Israel sentiments (ahem) trump their opposition to Nazis.  Aside from Mark Pitcavage, who is usually on point as someone who actually studies US Nazis.  But the leader and social media accounts of ADL are typically pretty bad.

  42. 42.

    sukabi

    if it hasn’t been mentioned before, Klobuchar was on the inauguration planning committee, which is set in motion prior to the election being concluded. She and a repub were interviewed the other day about the plans, prior to trump pulling the plug on the outdoor ceremony.

  43. 43.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Professor Bigfoot:

    When the Republicans avidly waved their “MASS DEPORTATION NOW” signs they told anyone who’s read any history of the mid 20th that they were just straight up Nazis.

    Truth.

  45. 45.

    Miki

    Not gonna Google it for you, but Klobuchar had a fucking job to do today as chair of the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies.

    It was a peaceful, if disgraceful, transition. But the disgrace lies with the people, not the institutions.

    FFS.

  46. 46.

    oldgold

    Newsweek’s pretzel take:

    Newsweek Opinion Editor Batya Ungar-Sargon had another take. “This is a man with Aspergers exuberantly throwing his heart to the crowd,” the journalist said, calling Musk “a friend to the Jews.”

  47. 47.

    Dan B

    And Hegseth makes it out of committee 14 to 13.  How fast will trans, and then women, be sent packing?   No pensions or benefitsi?  POC?

  49. 49.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly:  I am so happy about Archive Today.  Can read WSJ and all manner of articles.  Working on The Atlantic articles, too.

    Subscribe to a lot of news sites, and believe in paying for news, but one cannot afford every paywall.

    I know you got us turned on to the late, great 10 Foot Ladder.

  51. 51.

    Raven

    The Bellamy salute is a palm-out salute created by James B. Upham as the gesture that was to accompany the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America, whose text had been written by Francis Bellamy. It was also known as the “flag salute” during the period when it was used with the Pledge of Allegiance. Bellamy promoted the salute and it came to be associated with his name. Both the Pledge and its salute originated in 1892. Later, during the 1920s and 1930s, Italian fascists and Nazi Germans adopted a salutewhich was very similar, attributed to the Roman salute, a gesture that was popularly believed to have been used in ancient Rome.[1]This resulted in controversy over the use of the Bellamy salute in the United States. It was officially replaced by the hand-over-heart salute when Congress amended the Flag Code on December 22, 1942

     

    flic.kr/p/fb4S7J

  52. 52.

    Quinerly

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Barron just did this weird waving around of his fist when Trump introduced him. Trump gave him the longest intro. Something about winning the youth vote by 36 pts/percent. Just heard the 36 and youth vote. Quite the babble.

    The rally really is awful. I won’t be mentioning anything more from it.

  53. 53.

    Chris Johnson

    @Gin & Tonic: This is what ELON wanted. The question is how well he can sell it to all 77 million who were liking it so far.

    Between him and Donald, they didn’t make it fuckin’ 24 hours before erupting in sieg flails. They have a remarkable amount of trust that literally all their voting base are nazis on ketamine. They’re already looking at razor-thin margins in Congress, this is sure to help with that. What the actual fuck.

    These are such remarkably stupid people.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    @oldgold:  A man with Aspergers, yes, probably.

    Also a man with a lot of government contracts, millions and millions of dollars worth.

    He is daring them, and informing that he may not face repercussions under this administration.

    We shall see.

  55. 55.

    West of the Rockies

    Just a gentle reminder to not allow yourself to be purposefully triggered by Trump’s nonsense and stupid hats.  We can’t overlook the serious shit, but we don’t have to fall into a perpetual state of rage and the hate reading/viewing of the pablum the MSM serves up.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    @oldgold:

    Its all gushing bowing and scraping before the oligarchs. The exception is people who AREN’T embarrassing themselves with displays of adoration.

    I knew it would be bad but I guess I thought there would be more people with self respect. The ass kissing makes me cringe.

  58. 58.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    @Miki:

    Not gonna Google it for you, but Klobuchar had a fucking job to do today as chair of the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies.

    Thanks for the clarification.  Unfortunately, her overweening ambition caused her to run to BlueSky and brag about the wonderful Inaguration, instead of just saying “I did my duty but that’s it.”   I have no problem with her doing her duty, just as I have no problem with Biden doing his duty (and Harris).  I have a problem with her bragging about it.

  59. 59.

    Elizabelle

    @zhena gogolia:  Guessing baud means he is not going to jump for every sensational story.

    Nor should we.  But this by Musk is … newsworthy.  Maybe the BezosPost will tell us a story about it.  They promised.

  60. 60.

    banditqueen

    From a post on bluesky via Reuters:    –the article also says that there are minor children in this group waiting to be reunited with their parents. I feel so ashamed.

    Nearly 1,660 Afghans cleared by the U.S. government to resettle in the U.S., including family members of active duty U.S. military personnel, are having their flights canceled under President Donald Trump’s order suspending U.S. refugee programs.

  64. 64.

    Phylllis

    @Dan B: Lucian Truscott made a great point in his newsletter today about booting those folks out of the military:

    The first thing Hegseth is going to have to do when he sits down at his big desk on the E-Ring of the Pentagon is deal with the severe recruitment problem the Army, Navy, and Air Force are having. The point being, you can’t have an effective military if you don’t have the warm bodies to fill the ranks. So, whatchagonna do, Petey boy?

  65. 65.

    Quinerly

    @Elizabelle:

    I think the Musk Nazi salute  is very newsworthy. TWICE. And calculated.

    Also, I would like to know why Trump didn’t put his hand on the Bible. I saw it in real time and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. It was very obvious. It wasn’t an oversight on his part. Several news sites are reporting it.

  66. 66.

    Elizabelle

    @Phylllis:  If the military had recruiting problems before…

    Are you going to encourage your sons and daughters to join, to be put in harm’s way by FOTUS?

    Of course, if they tank the economy, maybe that’s the great solution to military recruitment.  Make them grateful for a job, any job.

    Take away the jobs that were present in Biden’s economy.  Believe it or not!

  67. 67.

    TBone

    @West of the Rockies: a full on Nazi salute, unmistakable because it was thrown three times, by an unelected someone close to Donold merely because of his wealth, is definitely worthy of note.  A core concept of fascism is the marriage of corporate and governmental power.

  68. 68.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly:  Afraid of surface burns?

    These people have people that studied Nazi Germany.  And have been thinking for years how the Reich might have succeeded.

    It’s almost laughable that FOTUS will not be declaring war on Russia, this time.

  73. 73.

    TBone

    @Quinerly: hubby mentioned that to me over supper.  It truly stuck out for him and he’s a lot more normie than I am. He didn’t see it live though, he saw a clip.

  75. 75.

    Dan B

    @Phylllis: Yes, since women are making up a much larger percent of new recruits than men.  And I believe there are a greater percentage of trans in the military than in the general population.

  77. 77.

    Quinerly

    @Elizabelle:

    This rally is very disturbing.

    I’m pretty tough but I have to turn off this shit.

    (He’s now signing EOs. His fans are swooning. So gross. He’s throwing pens to the crowd.)

  81. 81.

    MazeDancer .

    Hesitatingly, because no one dislikes Elon more than me, I draw your attention to the full video.

    He is expressing thanks for saving civilization.(yuck)  He says “heart”.

    It moved me off why is Elon doing Nazi salutes to well, maybe, it’s possible, he’s not.

    Of course, you will feel differently. But it’s worth a look.

  82. 82.

    PsiFighter37

    It’s okay, though, because it shows a lot of masculine energy. Or at least that’s what Mark Zuckerberg’s half-baked brain wants you to think.

    Pretty sickening display all around, but unsurprising. I did read that there were multiple lawsuits filed against DOGE as soon as the felon was sworn in, so at least the lawyers on the good side are ready to resist. I suspect that getting things bogged down in the court system is going to be the last, best chance to avoid a full-on dismantling of the government. But I worry that, even if the institutions stand, they will be so hollowed out after 4 years that nobody of any sort of expertise is going to want to work the federal government again. It’s incredibly disheartening, but after nearly half a century of full-on capitalism, it makes sense that end-stage capitalism is now coming for the government, stripping it bare for parts.

  85. 85.

    ruemara

    @Chris Johnson: A Real Fucking Mystery 2Let’s not. There are very smart, prepared, clever people in the administration. They tested the systems and barriers last time and are prepared. We are in a world of trouble and that’s the truth.

  86. 86.

    suzanne

    Pitchbot nails it:

    Elon Musk mimicked a salute associated with a man who carried out one of the worst genocides in world history. Here’s why I will probably give him an award later this year anyway.

    by Jonathan Greenblatt

  88. 88.

    BC in Illinois

    @Quinerly:

    Also, I would like to know why Trump didn’t put his hand on the Bible. I saw it in real time and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. It was very obvious. It wasn’t an oversight on his part. Several news sites are reporting it.

    1.  The Constitution doesn’t say there has to be a Bible, just an oath.
    2. And, when you look into it, JFK didn’t put his hand on the Bible during his [22 degrees, outdoor] oath of office. youtube.com/watch?v=4kUICvtBnho
    3. On the other hand, I am surprised that Trump didn’t perform what, for him, is a meaningless performance, when he knows full well that  his followers would expect that empty gesture.
  89. 89.

    KatKapCC

    @MazeDancer .: I am not watching that fucking video, but why in the hell should what someone says while they do what is VERY OBVIOUSLY A NAZI SALUTE make it not a Nazi salute? I wouldn’t care if he was trying to get a waiter’s attention, it’s still a fucking Nazi salute.

  91. 91.

    Ohio Mom

    @oldgold: First of all, there is no such thing as Asperger’s anymore. The DSM rewrote the definition of autism and autism-related conditions, folding Asperger’s into Autism.

    This wasn’t the first time the DSM revised these definitions, and it probably won’t be the last, but whatever happens in the future, Asperger’s is with Hysteria in the graveyard of terminology that got tossed when we became clearer about what we were talking about. Anyone who uses Asperger’s is giving themself away as uninformed.

    Second, and I say this about all self-identified autistics, Show me your diagnosis documentation signed by a qualified MD. Else you are playing make believe.

    Sure, most of us think we are diagnosing ourselves with various maladies but those are complaints, not diagnoses. “Doc, I have a rash,” is a complaint. “You have contact dermatitis” is a diagnosis.

    Anyway, can we please stop humoring Musk by agreeing with him that he’s neurodivergent? His main personality trait is that he’s a bad person.

  92. 92.

    Elizabelle

    @MazeDancer .:  Yeah.  That did look like Heart out to all of you.

    But.  The rest of the clip.  They’re going to have civilization.  Really?  Will forgive him for “DOGE to Mars.”

    And I laughed that “fork in the road” sounded like f*ck in the road first time I heard it, due to his soft accent.

    Lotta white people in that audience.

  93. 93.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Musk was also acting stoned as all fuck during it, so it’s not impossible he had put his arm out in the expatiation a space bat would land on it.

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    @MazeDancer .: OTOH, he knows how memes and social media and the like works.

    He loves riling people up, loves the attention, loves breaking norms, loves saying nobody that was offended can take a joke, and loves daring others to do anything about it.

    He’s free to move his hands around however he wants, of course, but I don’t think anyone should be confused by what he was doing.  It’s more of the same, AFAICS.

    My $0.02.

    Thanks.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  96. 96.

    Quinerly

    @BC in Illinois:

    Thanks.

    The other thing I noticed was there were none of the religious leaders attending church with him. No Franklin Grahams et al. He was surrounded by them in 2017. Techno Bros have taken their place.

  97. 97.

    RSA

    @MazeDancer .:  I think that the Nazi salute is awkward enough that no one would do it spontaneously, in the heat of the moment during a speech.  Maybe I’m wrong about that.  If I am wrong, I’m still concerned that the richest man in the world has so little self-control as to come across as a Nazi—which he also does regularly on Twitter.

  101. 101.

    catclub

    @TBone: retired General Michael Flynn recently said Night of the Long Knives out loud on a podcast.

     

    Wasn’t the NOTLK  when one set of Nazis killed a different set of Nazis?

  102. 102.

    Quinerly

    @Elizabelle:

    I had to walk out of the room when the Black minister spoke at the inauguration. He was truly disgusting. Didn’t catch his name or where they found him.

  104. 104.

    ExPatExDem

    @Quinerly:  Trump doesn’t have to pretend to like the evangelical establishment anymore.  They’ve outlived their usefulness to him.

  106. 106.

    John S.

    @TBone:

    Nice to see that our elected Democrats failing to decry overt displays of Nazism is expected around here.

    When will it be ok for Jews to be bothered by this behavior?

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    @catclub:  Yes.  Hitler, Goering etc. took out Ernst Rohm (head of the brownshirts, who they feared were getting too powerful) and a lot of other early Nazis who had fallen away somewhat, plus a head (higher up) of the previous government, and his wife.  (General Kurt van Schleicher, something like that.) If memory serves, that general was on the phone and his friend told him “don’t answer that door.”‘

    But he did.

  114. 114.

    Quinerly

    @BC in Illinois:

    Came back to add…I guess you know Melania was actually holding a Bible. Or at least it sure looked like she was holding something that he purposely did not touch. I assume it was a Bible. Just strange all the way around.

  116. 116.

    John S.

    @TBone:

    Good for you! Maybe that will give you some additional perspective here, depending on how much it factored into your cultural identity.

  118. 118.

    ExPatExDem

    @Quinerly:  Evangelicals tend to be the overtly anti-intellectual wing of Christianity, so it might take a while for the “He’s just not that into you” moment to sink in.

  120. 120.

    MazeDancer

    @Another Scott:

    @RSA:

    He’s scum. Also, no question, an actual Nazi.

    Just noting there may be room for him to say “I was sending the audience my heart”.

    And he is setting a trap for the Dems to “always be saying Nazi”. And he “can’t even be saying thanks without their screaming Nazi”.

  122. 122.

    Phylllis

    @Matt McIrvin: As if they’d take a chance on Barron being drafted. Although I’m sure there would be some super special double secret probation carveout that would only prevent him from being drafted if they did bring it back.

  125. 125.

    Ohio Mom

    I should add that Hans Asperger, the German pediatrician the diagnosis was named after, worked with autistic children before, during and after the Nazi era.

    He cooperated with the Nazis and while some believe he wasn’t a Nazi, merely “going along to get along,” others are not so sure and believe he was at the very least, a Nazi sympathizer. (This is a good overview:npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/01/20/463603652/was-dr-asperger-a-nazi-the-question-still-haunts-…)

    This just came to me, maybe we shouldn’t surprise that Musk identifies himself by using the name of a Nazi.

  128. 128.

    PsiFighter37

    I still fail to understand how Tesla can be a going-on concern at this point. Sales of those cars from California liberals and others have to have fallen off an absolute cliff the past couple of years. I need to read the financials more, but if I see someone driving a Tesla, especially a Cybertruck, I just automatically assume they’re an asshole. Especially if there are Jersey plates on it.

  130. 130.

    John S.

    @TBone:

    I have no opinion about you one way or the other. But you are doing an awful lot of hand waving to avoid answering a pretty straightforward question.

    After all, you’re one of the first to deride anyone who criticizes Democrats here, so I wanted to know if it’s ok for those of us who are Jewish to be upset that none of our elected Democrats seem to give a shit about Musk doing the Nazi salute.

    Your response to quinerly clearly indicated that you don’t expect them to speak out about it, and you seem pretty nonchalant about that.

  131. 131.

    KatKapCC

    @Ohio Mom: TBH if you go by the diagnostics of some terminally online people, literally everyone in the world would qualify as autistic. And if every living human is autistic, then autistic does not exist. It’s just being a person.

    It’s especially frustrating when you know a child who is at the extreme end of the autism spectrum and you see what that word was originally designed to represent. Not liking to make eye contact and being bothered by sock seams is not a psychological condition.

  135. 135.

    Another Scott

    @MazeDancer: True.

    Symbols are important, but (at the moment at least) he does not have actual power in our government (other than what Donnie gives him).  He’s a side-show.

    I often harp on not getting distracted and keeping our eyes on the prizes.  I still think that’s most important.  I think Melon showed us, yet again, who he is.  We can note it, put a notch on the wall, and move on.

    Very much agreed that there’s no winning getting in arguments about what’s in his heart or what he really meant or whatever.  Democrats shouldn’t get sucked into that.

    Thanks.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  136. 136.

    different-church-lady

    @KatKapCC: About five years ago I decided that the best policy was just to assume everyone I meet is somewhere on the spectrum and move on with my day.

  138. 138.

    Quinerly

    @raven:

    Excellent point. I immediately flashed on the monument. You could be right…maybe the town. If he was going for a predominantly Black town he certainly could have picked another town.

    His speech was absolutely the worst. The mention of Stone Mountain was jarring and disturbing.

  139. 139.

    different-church-lady

    @Ohio Mom:

    can we please stop humoring Musk by agreeing with him that he’s neurodivergent?

    Neurodivergent is not a Get-Out-Of-Jail card for being an asshole.

  140. 140.

    KatKapCC

    @John S.: Mais oui. I don’t understand the need to diagnostic the hell out of everything. I’m sensitive to it because I have dealt with a severe health condition that people like to turn into a little joke sometimes or use in a sort of colloquial way. Grinds my gears.

  143. 143.

    Sure Lurkalot

    I’m sure the American people have noted the Democrats’ displays of civility and grace and drew the appropriate contrast with the booing, fistpumping and Nazi salutes.

    Planning on a workout and then a stiff one even though Monday is not cocktail night. It’s the exception that proves the rule, right?

  144. 144.

    different-church-lady

    I mean, if anyone were having debates about whether I made a Nazi salute, I’d be wondering what I did wrong with my life.

  145. 145.

    John S.

    @different-church-lady:

    Nope. My autistic kid is decidedly not an asshole. He is actually one of the sweetest kids and everyone who knows him finds him delightful.

    So it’s pretty offensive to chalk asshole behavior up to being autistic.

  149. 149.

    KatKapCC

    @different-church-lady: James Fallows from his newsletter just now:

    You do don’t this by accident. I’m a generation older than Musk. As far as I’m aware, I have never given a Nazi salute . Let alone twice, on national TV, at a swearing-in ceremony.

  151. 151.

    Another Scott

    @John S.: I’m having trouble understanding why you responded to my comment with that.

    Have a good evening.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  152. 152.

    John S.

    @Quinerly:

    Isn’t it fascinating that some of the same folks who were triggered by hats this morning just don’t really seem too concerned about the guy up Trump’s ass giving Nazi salutes?

    I just can’t make sense of people sometimes.

  154. 154.

    TBone

    @John S.: what part of reading simple sentences and grammar eludes you?

    And our elected leaders should be talking about it.

    And Zuckerberg, et al should be asked about it.

    To which I responded, in part

    yes, indeed

    and even italicized that for emphasis!

    How was it so hard for you to comprehend, then, the part where I criticized our elected leaders and what passes for the press by stating that I don’t really expect them to do so because there is a whirlwind shitstorm currently upon us at this very moment.

  155. 155.

    Quinerly

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    I just made a strong Sazerac with Rye, Peychaud’s, and Absinthe. Don’t think I have had a mixed drink on a Monday in 20 years.

    Long day. I was wide awake at 2AM

  158. 158.

    Citizen Alan

    @John S.: When will it be ok for Jews to be bothered by this behavior?

    Not today apparently. The ADL has already issued a statement in support of Musk.

  161. 161.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Quinerly: Trump knows he’s captured the conservative Evangelical voting bloc, and he doesn’t need the Franklin Grahams any more.

    You might say Trump caught Graham on the rebound in 2016. Political preachers like Graham were just glad Trump wasn’t a Morman like Romney.

  162. 162.

    Betty Cracker

    I watched the video. I saw what I fucking saw.

    Musk gets NO benefit of the doubt. Remember when he amplified a Twitter nutcase who posited the same antisemitic conspiracy theory that animated the perpetrator of the Tree of Life synagogue massacre?

  163. 163.

    different-church-lady

    I mean, quite frankly I’ve heard enough out of Musk to call him a Nazi without seeing a salute, so fuck any benefit of the doubt I’d offer to a normal person.

  165. 165.

    John S.

    @TBone:

    You still didn’t really answer my question, but I suppose that’s the best I’m gonna get from you.

    Thanks for the “clarification”.

  169. 169.

    raven

    @Quinerly:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s inaugural benediction on the federal holiday that celebrates Martin Luther King Jr. included an homage to the civil rights leader’s legacy. The prayer by a Michigan pastor heavily cited King’s seminal “I Have a Dream” speech alongside the Declaration of Independence, patriotic songs and gospel hymns.

    In his spirited roughly three-minute invocation on Monday, Rev. Lorenzo Sewell thanked God for the incoming Trump administration and prayed “that America would begin to dream again.”

    The comments were at times a near complete rendition of King’s 1963 address. He asked God to “let freedom ring” nationwide and ensure that Americans are “free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.”

    Sewell was a mainstay of Trump’s 2024 presidential campaign. He hosted Trump at his church in June, spoke at the Republican National Convention in July, and attended numerous campaign roundtables of faith leaders and pro-Trump conservative Christian rallies.

  172. 172.

    Jeffro

    @Phylllis: this is good…very much along the lines of “make him (trump) BE president”…we should also make Hegseth BE Secretary of Defense.  Solve those problems there, Petey boy!

  174. 174.

    Ohio Mom

    @KatKapCC: I happen to think the DSM made a mistake when it folded everything together. I believe what we need is more categories. We are never going to understand autism by refusing to look for patterns among the ways symptoms present themselves. There are no doubt many autisms, with different causes and prognoses.

    There is a growing backlash among the families of very high need autistics, and they definitely have a point that their loved ones have little in common with those with lower needs.

    Even if Musk does have some autistic characteristics (I have no idea if he does), we can hardly say they are interfering with his level of functioning. He’s doing quite well for himself!

    Because that is the bottom line: is this person’s abilities to function adequately and independently diminished or prevented by their autistic traits?

    There is always going to be gray areas where pysychiatric traits fade into normalcy, for example, is she a worry wart or does she have an anxiety disorder? But again, can she function well enough in everyday life?

  175. 175.

    Quiltingfool

    @Kay:Wow. Complete lawlessness. The Proud Boys are going to be really emboldened. They’re untouchable.

    By law enforcement.  We live in a violent country.  Bad things can happen to bad people.

  177. 177.

    TBone

    @Another Scott: forget it, Scott, it’s Chinatown.  I’m sick of being confused with others and lumped in with generalized insults and strawmen.  Pie finger itchy and I have never pied here before.

  178. 178.

    Jeffro

    @Quinerly: I’m going to wait until tomorrow morning and then see if the MAGAts in my life are proud of President Wrestling Heel after all this arena psycho hype bullshit.

    Same with the Musk Nazi salute: “so…what’d you think?”

  182. 182.

    different-church-lady

    @TBone: I was talking about Musk being an asshole. I have no desire to try to sort out the spat going on between people here on this thread..

  186. 186.

    TBone

    @MagdaInBlack: thanks, I know you remember wtf is going on here!  I’m not in the mood to let it go today, this Archie Bunker act is on my last nerve today of all days.

  188. 188.

    Quinerly

    @raven:

    Thanks. The best thing I can say is watch his speech.  I will force myself to watch the entire thing. I left it early on.

  189. 189.

    Kay

    @Quiltingfool:

    He got 22 years. They put him back on the street, no questions asked.

    I guarantee he thinks he’s untouchable. He’ll reoffend. Why wouldn’t he? There’s no consequences at all. Every single other man in that prison is thinking ” why am I being punished if this violent offender is let go?”

  197. 197.

    RSA

    @MazeDancer:  I think you’re right about the trap.  It’s been hours, and he hasn’t come out to say anything about it, at least that I’ve heard.

  199. 199.

    jowriter

    @Quinerly: He’s well spoken and I have followed him for awhile, he’s a CT boy, from my home state.  He’s not afraid to speak truth. Watch him.  Every year on his vacation from the Senate he takes a walk across Connecticut, just talking to people and listening to their concerns.  I believe he is the real deal.  We need more like him. I am very sick of the showboats.

  200. 200.

    Quinerly

    @Jeffro:

    Fortunately, I have no MAGATS in my life.

    Also, while you are asking…..ask them why he wouldn’t touch the TWO BIBLES his third wife was holding. Lots of religion invoked today….why was he afraid to touch those Bibles?

    This Atheist wants to know what his disciples think.

  202. 202.

    zhena gogolia

    @TBone: I  hereby absolve you of having been the one who didn’t want to hear about Melania’s hat. That was me. John S. can go back to bullying me and leave you the fuck alone.

    ETA: Oh, and my grandfather was Jewish and died in a pogrom.

  205. 205.

    TBone

    @zhena gogolia: thank you sweetness, he really doesn’t “remember” who is who around here when it’s inconvenient for his purposes.  You are always entitled to speak up in my world because you don’t personally attack people with insults that are way off the mark AND out of bounds.

    I’m OG Antifa from way back and sorry to hear one of your reasons to be Antifa too.

  206. 206.

    John S.

    @zhena gogolia:

    Bullying YOU???

    My god, there aren’t enough words to express how delusional you are. The performative victimhood on display here by you and many others is just *chef’s kiss*.

    I’m sorry you have lost family due to antisemitism. We have something in common there.

  210. 210.

    John S.

    @TBone:

    Oh, and a special *chef’s kiss* to you for calling me Archie Bunker.

    That one really cracks me up given how ludicrous that notion would be to anyone who actually knows me.

  216. 216.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @TBone: “We can disagree and still love each other, unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression, in the denial of my humanity and my right to exist.”

    As angry as I am, and as frustrated as I am with the inability of so many to recognize the role of whiteness in their day to day lives, I don’t have that disagreement with anyone here.

    HOWEVER obnoxious I might seem.

  225. 225.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Quinerly:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Well, he said he was gonna do it and he did it. He let Tarrio go, and he was sentenced to 22 years. I want to ask my aunt and uncle, who are such “good Christians” and like to lecture other people that they need to “read their bibles” if they’re OK with this

  227. 227.

    Professor Bigfoot

    He has the paramilitary arm of the conservative movement and he has the political arm of the conservative movement.

    The conservative movement exists to conserve straight white male supremacy.

    We live in interesting times.

  228. 228.

    SpaceUnit

    Folks, please lay down your blades.  I’m the last guy who ought to be lecturing because I get in shit fights on this blog all the time.  But everyone is stressed to the max right now.

    Christ, the night of the election I just wanted to get into the threads and start swinging hands.  The jackal I was going after calmly set me straight.  Now I’m hoping to pay it forward.  Save your energy for the resistance.  We need one another.

    Think I’m going to go dip into the Christmas brandy now.

  231. 231.

    PsiFighter37

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The media will act shocked, even though it had been apparent for years that the felon would do this if he was put back in office.

    It should not be shocking to anyone that a far-right fascist is acting like…well, a far-right fascist.

  232. 232.

    Gravenstone

    @Kay: We can hope that now his former associates know he was also an FBI informant, one of them might take it upon themselves to shank his ass.

  235. 235.

    Elizabelle

    @MazeDancer:  Eh, fuck him.  And them.

    As much bandwidth as I care to devote to these morons.  Off to find something good to stream.  Satby recommended Astrid, so settling in w that.

    It’s a marathon, peeps.  And a lot of them are in Rascal scooters.  Bless their hearts.

  238. 238.

    Quinerly

    @Baud:

    Philly guy. Been around at least 10 years. Good on TV. Baby face.

    I like him quite a bit. But then again I probably listen to/watch too much MSNBC.

  243. 243.

    TheflipPsyd

    Since he who will not  be named (at least by me) pardoned all the J6 jerks, any way they can be sued in civil court? Think it would be great to make all of them wish for jail time rather than having to spend every last cent in civil court.

  244. 244.

    Quinerly

    @John S.:

    Well, all assholes look alike. (I don’t have an appropriate emoji.)

    Kidding aside…the constant whining…..and the victimization here really is making the comment section unreadable. My thoughts. Not looking for anyone to agree. In fact, I don’t want anyone to agree. This place sucks up too much of my time. That hat thread is a prime example. I regret even engaging this AM.

    I’m going back to just reading the FPers and scanning the comments looking for interesting links. And doing that well after the threads are dead so I won’t be tempted to comment. Let the same few nyms say the same thing over and over in almost every thread. I guess they need a safe space with no push back. No differing opinions.

    Don’t always agree with you but I do find your comments interesting and oftentimes right on target. Hang in there.

  247. 247.

    cmorenc

    @Quinerly: There has long been a small faction of southern blacks who willingly play the “Uncle Tom” role to gain white-adjacent status in the dominant white power structure.  The aptly ironically named Clarence Thomas being a prime example.  Another for whom this tactic has worked out well for them is Sen Tim Scott of SC.  I am disappointed, but not at all surprised the Trump Inaugural organization could find one for today.

  248. 248.

    TONYG

    This is already being sane-washed as some kind of accidental, innocent hand gesture but that is … absolute bullshit.  I’m an old geezer of 69 and I have never seen a human being make this gesture accidentally — it is clearly an imitation of the Nazi salute.  It is no more accidental than an “accidental” raised middle finger.  Elon Musk’s psychiatrist might have an opinion whether this means that Elon is really a Nazi or whether he is just a childish narcissist looking for attention — but either way this sick man should have no influence in the United States government.  Instead, he is the de-facto president (with Donald Trump as the noisy figurehead).

  250. 250.

    Ksmiami

    @catclub: yes. rohm’s brownshirts had become a liability to the pacified and orderly German society envisioned by Hitler and they were seen as a threat to Hitler’s power. So yes it was Nazi against Nazi action

  252. 252.

    Kay

    Trump just said he’s not “confident” he can end the war in Gaza.

    So that’s the Ukraine peace promise and the Gaza peace promise broken on day one.

    Remember when Joe Biden pardoned his son after saying he wouldnt and media spoke of nothing else for two weeks? Donald Trump broke the “peace promise” within 6 hours of being sworn in.

  254. 254.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @cmorenc: Mayor Adams does not have the excuse of being a Southerner to drop all the work he was supposed to do in NYC to go to felon’s inauguration.

  257. 257.

    jimmiraybob

    @Professor Bigfoot:

    Yep.  I can’t remember if it was 2016 or 2017 when I realized the NAZI ramifications – I can shoot ,,, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    We have now entered America’s Fascist era.

  260. 260.

    John S.

    @Quinerly:

    I suspect we all disagree with each other from time to time. If we didn’t, we would probably be Republicans!

    But I definitely agree with your take here. Thanks for your comments.

  261. 261.

    jimmiraybob

    @Quinerly: “I think the Musk Nazi salute is very newsworthy. TWICE. And calculated.”

    And very passionate.

    I’m not surprised that the man that claims to have been saved by god to save America didn’t touch the Bible.  He’s nothing if not predictable.  I assume that his crazed Christian zealot worshipers will come up with a sound excuse.

  264. 264.

    Quinerly

    @Kay:

    I just checked. Thankfully, his life sentence was on state charges.

    There were additional federal charges. 30 years to be served concurrently.

  266. 266.

    jimmiraybob

    @Quinerly: ​
      “…third wife…”

    Actually, I think that Third Wife is a more appropriate title that First Lady. Let it be so.

  269. 269.

    KatKapCC

    @John S.: The commenter can of course speak for himself, but assuming that he is Black based on the name, calling him “kid” is really not cool. I’ll allow that it wasn’t your intention to be racist, but that doesn’t change the connotation. You seem to enjoy being pugnacious, but please at least respect people enough not to sink to problematic language like this.

  270. 270.

    Quinerly

    @jimmiraybob:

    Agree.

    Third wife who happened to overstay her visa if I recall correctly. Maybe we should be asking about Barron’s birthright citizenship.

  272. 272.

    jimmiraybob

    @Quinerly: ​
      “Maybe we should be asking about Barron’s birthright citizenship.”

    I remember bringing this up during the great Anchor Baby Wars of Trump 1.0.

  274. 274.

    TBone

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Exactly right.

    I had a very trying day IRL, nothing to do with politics, but adding to today’s coronation mood and I’m in ‘take no shit from anyone’ mode.

    Thank you for nailing it so precisely.

  275. 275.

    Quinerly

    @jimmiraybob:

    You were well ahead of me.

    I hadn’t given it any thought until I saw Barron waving his fist around so oddly when Trump introduced him at that God awful rally after the inauguration.

  276. 276.

    Chris

    @Ksmiami:

    rohm’s brownshirts had become a liability to the pacified and orderly German society envisioned by Hitler and they were seen as a threat to Hitler’s power.

    More specifically, Rohm’s brownshirts were the “populist” form of the Nazi Party, the people who were the backbone of the party in the early days when it was a glorified street gang.  Once he had a strong foothold in the better parts of German society, i.e. the upper and middle classes, Hitler no longer saw any need for them and, when he saw they and his new friends weren’t getting along, chose to dispense with them.

    This is always how it works in fascism, and it’s why, if this Bannon vs Musk thing really does become a serious split, I don’t expect Bannon to come out ahead.  Fascism punches down, not up.

  279. 279.

    Quinerly

    @John S.:

    Lots of strangeness here today. Mostly the same nyms throwing around accusations.

    Probably a good idea to take a break from all things BJ. Just a suggestion. I know I am….. starting now.

  282. 282.

    BigJimSlade

    @Elizabelle: Oh, we’re hanging in there. Los Feliz has a bunch of hills with really neat homes to ogle as we take walks on these little windy streets. That’s when we’re not trying to decide exactly which items of clothing and toiletries to replace while we’re staying in a friend’s ADU, or not looking at insurance and Fema stuff online – my wife’s doing the lion’s share of that for us, but I’m doing a bunch of that or bills for my mom. Things are basically pretty good, all things considered

    (Also, I’m checking in on the blog a couple times a day – I just have never commented all that much, so situation normal there. Thanks for your concern!)

  283. 283.

    Ksmiami

    @Chris: yep. Always. The rabble will get screwed. But this America isn’t worth saving. It’s worth letting decline happen. We don’t deserve to be a superpower

  284. 284.

    Gloria DryGarden

    If amy klobuchar had read the moment, what would you have liked her to say and do? If it weren’t politically damaging, and she spoke out bluntly, what would be a satisfying message?

    it’s unpleasant to see all those smiling and adoring faces at that inauguration, the few minutes I saw on a replay.

  287. 287.

    Ryan

    I mean, isn’t it supposed to go straight forward, not 45 degrees to the right?  Or, is he Right of Hitler now?

  288. 288.

    Dirk Reinecke

    @currawong: As a South African let me live up to the stereotype by wishing you a good day.

    But let me educate you a bit. White South Africans voted to end apartheid in the 1991 referendum.

    Remind me what white americans did recently.

    Where did the Apartheid goverment get the idea for the bantustans? From the American Native Reservation system. White South Africans also did not genocide the indigenious population.

    So I invite you to get off your moral high horse. Remember as South Africa became more democratic, Elon Musk left to go to the US. Maybe think abou why.

  289. 289.

    KatKapCC

    @John S.: Oh, stop it. You really love to do this over the top response to even the most mild disagreements. You need to see a doctor about getting that massive chip off your shoulder.

  290. 290.

    John S.

    @KatKapCC:

    You made an incorrect judgment about me. I responded politely, honestly and factually. You need to stop with this armchair psychology.

  291. 291.

    Noskilz

    I wouldn’t say I’ve never met a nice South African, but I would say they call Musk “Apartheid Clyde” for a reason.

    He has done nothing but do his best to platform nazis, and obviously he is one – no great surprise

  292. 292.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Quinerly: I don’t think I want to hear it. I’m glad Joe is a gentleman. But, ouch.

    Imagine how Biden felt, feeling required to say it…

  293. 293.

    Jesse

    @Miki: +1, thank you

    We’re in a moment of crisis and upheaval. There’s no way that Klobuchar is OK with all of this. She had a role to fulfill. I refuse to abide by simple conclusions like “if she didn’t gesticulate wildly in public in opposition then welp I was wrong and it turns out she’s one of them”.

    FWIW She was also on the inauguration committee for 2020 with Roy Blunt.

  294. 294.

    KatKapCC

    @John S.: I MADE NO JUDGMENT. I said:

    I’ll allow that it wasn’t your intention to be racist

    That means I did NOT think you were being racist on purpose, but that the word choice was INADVERTENTLY prejudicial.

    And you’re not doing yourself any favors by reacting this way. In the past when I’ve had it pointed out to me that I said something that was unintentionally bigoted, my response has been to apologize and educate myself. Not to throw a childish little tantrum and give exaggerated OH I GUESS I’M JUST THE BIGGEST RACIST EVER, HUH?????? responses. You sound like the kind of man who, when asked not to make risqué jokes in the office, responds with WELL I GUESS I’LL JUST NEVER TALK TO A WOMAN AGAIN.

    Grow the fuck up.

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