Little dudes be clippin’ wires errywhere…
WH plans to flagrantly break spending laws, via
@FoxNews digital— Bobby Kogan (@bbkogan.bsky.social) March 13, 2025 at 2:42 PM
lmao, Bade laundering the admin's bluster again as real news
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) March 13, 2025 at 9:58 AM
The Dogemaster, not having the best day — (and that’s good for the rest of us!):
The Social Security Administration late Wednesday abandoned plans it was considering to end phone service for millions of Americans filing retirement and disability claims after The Post reported that Elon Musk’s U.S. DOGE Service team was weighing the change to root out alleged fraud.
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost.com) March 13, 2025 at 10:52 AM
Not only did a federal judge just order Trump to *immediately* reinstate tens of thousands of fired federal employees across 6 agencies, calling their firings "unlawful" and a "sham."
The judge said he might also extend his order to cover more agencies. www.huffpost.com/entry/judge-…— Jen Bendery (@jbendery.bsky.social) March 13, 2025 at 1:23 PM
Update: White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt suggests the Trump admin will appeal this ruling:
"The Trump Administration will immediately fight back against this absurd and unconstitutional order."— Jen Bendery (@jbendery.bsky.social) March 13, 2025 at 3:55 PM
And: Trump’s big mouth, doing as much damage to the stock market as a global pandemic…
🚨BREAKING: Over $4 Trillion was wiped
out from the stock & crypto market since Feb 19.
This is the largest market drop since March 2020,
when the pandemic sparked a historic crash.— The God of Cities (@thegodofcities.bsky.social) March 12, 2025 at 2:37 PM
… But they may have found a suitable sacrifice to lull the rubes.
Host: 62% of Americans own stocks. How can the White House not be concerned about Americans' 401ks?
Bessent: I'm not concerned— FactPost (@factpostnews.bsky.social) March 13, 2025 at 10:44 AM
losing 20% of your $400,000 401k is $80,000 out of your pocket. A huge hit. That smug fucker’s worth $520 million. He probably spent $100 million on a yacht.
— tommylamb (@tommylamb.bsky.social) March 13, 2025 at 4:42 PM
Just 6 Days Left in This Leg of our Fight to Take Back the House
PsiFighter37
Schumer caved on a clean CR. Absolutely pathetic. The Democrats will never get anyone motivated for them by rolling over like this.
Azhrie139
So are we all excited to be sold out to fascists by our own party! I know I am.
cain
I’m waiting for Omnes and others to give me the scoop
Anybody have a link about this cave? Last I heard Schumer was saying the GOP doesn’t have the votes and the party is united except for the moron from PA.
zhena gogolia
Okay, time to go somewhere else.
THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT IN THE MAJORITY IN EITHER HOUSE
WaterGirl
@PsiFighter37:
@Azhrie139:
Wondering if either of you has a link so the rest of us might know what you are reacting to?
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Why would you let 2 comments like that drive you away?
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Because I am extremely fragile at the moment. BJ used to be the place I went to be somewhat cheered up, but now it’s impossible.
Not because the situation isn’t dire, but because THE WRONG PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY BEING BLAMED FOR EVERYTHING.
cain
@WaterGirl: It’s a mental health thing – it’s like foreshadowing how this thread is going to be. Because others are going to react to the same bit and cue the shredding of clothes and tearing of hair.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: This:
cain
@Jackie: I suppose the Dem donors have spoken, eh?
ETA – I’m curious to know what would be worse they think given all the things that Trump has planned including changing where the money goes eg he’s planning on re-appropriating the funds and putting it wherever he wants. (eg ICE and wars)
Does the Dem have a plan other than a lawsuit/SCOTUS?
You are giving up the one few levers of influence you have, so I hope the trade is worth it because otherwise they are going to have to explain to their scared constituents what they got out of it.
Paul W.
“ Chuck says he’s a Yes on cloture.“ on senate floor with video.
bsky.app/profile/joshtpm.bsky.social/post/3lkc62t7uqc2u
Both of my senators and I’ve been calling multiple times a day to stop this. I’m livid. Marshall is reporting even Schiff, both AZ and both VA senators are a no so why is blue NY not stepping up?!
Maybe there is hope he gets flipped but this is truly insane. They are going to risk violence with this shit.
Gretchen
@zhena gogolia: But they have the power to block the bill if they hold together and Schumer is telling them to cave and give Republicans the 8 votes they need to pass the poison pill.
JaneE
Pretty much every time ordinary workers think the stock market is going to save them the market crashes.
Well over half a century ago, I worked with a man who had planned to retire a couple of years before I was hired. His savings was in the company savings plan, which was only in company stock. He looked at the value, figured he could retire, take the wife on a long vacation to the old country (Italy) and have a comfortable retirement. The stock was trading between 60 and 70, and had been for several years. But before he could cash out, the company lost a few contracts and suddenly the stock was trading between 4 and 5, losing a little over 90% of its value. To say he was bitter was an understatement. Of course this was before ERISA.
I was ready to retire when the tech bubble burst. Half of my 401k went poof. I kept working too. That was two crashes ago.
Those crashes weren’t deliberate. The next one will be.
Anne Laurie
@PsiFighter37: Have we got a better source for this than Punchbowl News? Because I am not the only person who wouldn’t trust Jake Sherman when it comes to kneecapping Democrats…
Azhrie139
@WaterGirl: I might retract my statement about the party as a whole. We might end up pleasantly surprised? Holding my breath.
The betrayal might not be as great, but Schumer is an awful senate leader if this speech is anything to go by.
marcopolo
Well, can’t say I have any idea how the next four years play out except horrifically, but assuming we still have elections and some semblance of representative gov’t I will personally contribute to primary challengers each and every D senator who caves on this CR in both 2026 & 2028.
On a totally different note, I read a second (maybe 3rd) story about how a person (young women in these cases from the UK & Canada) had incomplete or inaccurate visas when trying to cross the border into the US & they were taken into custody and turned over to ICE and have now been moved around various detention centers for 2 weeks for one and close to a month for the other. WTF would we do this? Neither has a criminal record or record of anti-American anything. Why wouldn’t we just say, “sorry, your paperwork is no good, you can’t come in, have a nice day.” And I realize one answers is because we can, but I mean is this a way for ICE to goose their numbers (in which case I don’t know how adding a couple more folks into the system really helps all that much). Or is it a money thing? Obviously once they are in US custody we start paying money for their detention, possibly to private companies. Anyway, in the vast waterfall of all the fucked up crap the Trump administration is doing this caught my eye today for some reason.
Canadian woman
UK woman
bbleh
Schumer et al. pretty obviously have decided that pissing off their base — temporarily, they assume, and they may not be wrong — is preferable to what would happen if they voted “no” and there was a shutdown.
Given their UTTER LACK OF LEADERSHIP to this point, I am sorry to say, they might be right. Because they have SO set themselves up for a fall that they’d probably take one.
I wish to hell they’d try to think about how to GET AHEAD of ABSOLUTELY INEVITABLE issues like this, but apparently THAT kind of leadership, or coherence, or pretty much everything else, is beyond them.
They’ve decided to dive back under their desks. Like their fellows in the House. And this will be broadcast in the media as an EPIC WIN FOR TRUMP. And here we are.
Baud
@Anne Laurie:
Schumer said he will vote for the CR because he thinks Trump and Musk would use a shut down to cut government even more.
Ohio Mom
@zhena gogolia: Everything you said, I could have said.
cain
Rahul Grijalva, RIP at 77. Sorry to hear we lost one of our own.
sentient ai from the future
Chuck is absolutely not a wartime consigliere
Jay
There hasn’t been a vote yet.
sentient ai from the future
@Baud: they’re gonna try and do that anyway
cain
@Baud:
So far every federal judge has told him to stop doing that. So I’m trying to figure it out. I mean he can’t cut agencies according to these federal judges. Does Schumer not trust them?
They don’t have any influence on DOGE either way. I think he’s guessing but also I think for a lot of these folks that it is deeply ingrained in them that doing something that stops govt is deeply wrong.
ETA added words and stuff to make it read right.
sentient ai from the future
Fwiw earlier today I called both my senators asking them to vote no on cloture and no on the existing CR
HinTN
@Baud: Schumer is a member of the club. We’re not in it. His mouth noises mean nothing except in the bubble if the club, if there.
sentient ai from the future
@cain: the fucking fed employees unions are saying not to vote for cloture tho.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
As others have already said, they will do that regardless
John S.
@bbleh:
Well, this is pretty much the outcome I predicted yesterday. I really wanted to be wrong.
Baud
@sentient ai from the future:
He thinks it’ll be a lot easier for them with a shut down.
Just conveying what I heard.
Nukular Biskits
Good evenin’, y’all.
And, WTAF Chuck Schumer?
Jay
Brought up from below,
cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tesla-products-bc-hydro-rebates-tariffs-1.7482501
cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6681244
That “tap” might be turned off indefinitely.
Baud
@cain:
Judges are doing ok, but if there’s no funding, then judges can’t make Trump keep the agencies open. That’s the theory.
sentient ai from the future
@Baud: easier now, but easier to put shit back together after a federal judge hands them their asses, and congress hasn’t given away their power of the purse
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
How, exactly?
cain
@sentient ai from the future:
Yeah, so I think again this is a man who is not able to understand that the situation is already fucked and that the law is already working on all these govt cuts.
Do they not do role modeling and figure out what would happen? Did they talk to the federal govt unions? Seems like they are willing to take the pain. That means there is another group that is not willing to take that pain. Which group is that?
Gretchen
@Anne Laurie: Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo. He’s very reliable. talkingpointsmemo.com/news/after-heated-dem-meeting-schumer-says-dems-will-push-for-vote-on-short-te…
bbleh
@sentient ai from the future: Of course they are. And the notion that “it coulda been worse if we had voted No” is so vaporous as to be laughable.
They have no agency, no leadership, no agenda … no nothing. They want to hide under their desks until Something Really Bad happens to the Republicans.
And yes, there are a few exceptions. But for the most part, national Dem politicians have shown themselves utterly incapable of meeting the moment — unlike, I would point out, their Republican counterparts in similar situations in the past.
Hell with ’em. Maybe the Republicans will face-plant SO epically that the Dems will be able to recover something. Or maybe the Republicans will succeed in burning everything to the ground. But either way, Democrats won’t be blamed!! WIN!!
Nukular Biskits
@JaneE:
This is an oversimplification, to be sure, and isn’t entirely true, but a lot of those people pushing you to put your retirement savings into the market are the ones who’ll make money off yours, whether you do or not.
That’s why so many “conservatives” oppose fiduciary responsibility regulations, IMHO.
cain
@Baud: Someone mentioned on here or maybe it was on reddit that the circuit courts do have their own set of funds and could keep going even if the govt agencies cannot. It’s not infinite of course, but the courts could still run for a short time.
Shalimar
@Jackie: Republicans didn’t negotiate at all with Democrats, didn’t give them anything at all the bill, and it turns out that was the smart choice and they didn’t need to. Some Democrats apparently don’t have anything they would do differently about the current situation.
Baud
@cain:
Yeah, I don’t think the courts would close. But they can’t order agencies to stay open if the funding isn’t there.
I’m not saying I agree with the decision, but that the thinking.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@zhena gogolia:
You act like Dems have no agency whatsover and they do. A weekend or short-term shutdown to get concessions from the Republicans is not the end of the world and is worth fighting for
A Ghost to Most
@zhena gogolia:
Blame is being assessed to many that have richly earned it with their enabling, apologetics, and appeasement. Whistling past the graveyard?
Harrison Wesley
@Anne Laurie: The Guardian is carrying it.
John S.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
You must never speak ill of Democrats. Ever. It doesn’t matter what they do.
cain
@Baud: Yeah, I hear ya. No money means no money, but I believe the gambit the non-Schumer people are saying is that the pain will get the GOP back in the negotiation table. Sure, maybe the press will get all pissed off and Americans will blame Dems – but these voters have short memories. I mean we did vote this moron back in power.
glc
@Nukular Biskits:
It seems on brand for him. Not that I would disagree with the general sentiment.
Baud
@cain:
I hear you. I said yesterday I don’t try to do strategy anymore. So my opinion is worthless. It is what it is.
John S.
@cain:
Nobody will take you seriously in a hostage negotiation when everyone knows you have no intention of actually harming the hostage.
Wilson Heath
All for defenestrating Bessent. But Lt. Aldo Raine needs more Nazi scalps than just that.
Betty
And Schumer caved. Hold on to your hats. More destruction lies ahead.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: I’m sure he said that and likely other things. That’s one perspective with follow-on prediction.
Another perspective is that Trusk is already shutting down the government and the associated prediction is that this CR will accelerate that.
Captain C
Just called Schumer to ask him to reconsider. Not even the option to leave a message at the NYC, DC, and (picked at random) Melville offices. In fact, the NYC office’s outgoing message was telling me that they’ll be closed from December 23 to January 3 for the holidays!!!. I’m usually willing to cut elected Democrats some slack, but this is Mickey Mouse operation-level stuff.
I wonder if 40(+) Democrats will say fuck him and vote no anyway
ETA: Sent an emessage to ask him to reconsider and also that the unions are supporting a no. Will go back as I forgot to mention his outgoing message is way overdue for switching.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
I don’t see how the CR accelerates anything.
Chief Oshkosh
@Gretchen: Sorry Gretchen, that article is from yesterday. Sucks that this sort of thing changes so quickly, given the gravity of the situation.
Baud
@Captain C:
Do you have a link to the unions? I haven’t seen it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
My understanding is it gives the administration more “flexibility” to spend appropriated funds than they already have
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I knew it reallocated funds, but not sure how it gives more flexibility.
cain
@Baud:
I don’t either. There was a time I would simply say “trust the adults, the know what they are doing” but it’s safe to say that the trust is eroding because we lack people in journalism to be able to put what Schumer’s actions in perspective.
OK yeah – sure DOGE could accelerate the cuts and so on. But someone please explain the entire gambit – does he not believe that the GOP would not come back after a week? How much shit can DOGE do? Also, there are no federal workers working to carry out anything(?)
Jay
As near as I can tell from the “News”, despite losing Court case after Court case, nothing has happened and DOGE layoffs are still happening. Yesterday it was the Department of Education’s turn in the barrel.
As near as I can tell, USAID “rehired” some HQ Staff, and brought them back into the office, to just shred files.
So what use is a CR?
cain
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I heard that once it passes that he will after the fact appropriate the funds with an executive order and then take it to the SCOTUS to validate it.
I’m trying to be more focused on facts that just getting pissed off. I’ve done that before and it’s just leads to me spreading misinformation.
Captain C
@Captain C:
Here’s what I wrote regarding the very outdated outgoing phone message from Schumer’s NYC office. Hopefully it will give an intern a giggle.
Harrison Wesley
I have no idea if Schumer is right or not. I just don’t understand his thinking.
Captain C
@Baud: Sentient AI mentioned it at #27; I’ll look for a link.
eta: Josh Marshall has an article from yesterday here.
Baud
@Captain C:
No worries. I thought you might have it in hand.
Captain C
@Baud: (eta: I) Just put it into the comment :^)
NaijaGal
RIP Raul Grijalva. He just lost his battle with cancer…
cnn.com/2025/03/13/politics/raul-grijalva-arizona-democrat-dies/index.html
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: It will be taken by Trusk (and, and possibly more importantly, the handful of Republicans who privately know that this is killing the Rule of Law and who would therefore maybe work behind the scenes with Democratic colleagues to slow the train wreck) as a signal that the Democrats will simply never do anything, anything at all, to hold Trusk accountable.
Like I said, that’s one prediction — totally untestable since how would anyone know how batshit insane Trusk were going to become.
Baud
@Harrison Wesley:
Pure guess work on my part, but the CR goes through the end of the fiscal year, and maybe he wants to turn the page so that the focus will be on the Republican budget for next fiscal year, which is where they go wild.
Like I said, complete guesswork.
Nukular Biskits
@glc:
Based on my scant reading, I understand Schumer’s reasoning.
But I definitely do not agree with it at all.
Baud
@Captain C:
Thanks.
cain
@Baud:
Looks like Schumer is still looking at it from an optics point of view and that he thinks that he would be able to win american voters over by pointing out that the GOP is doing bad things. Does that sound right?
chemiclord
@Baud: A big reservation that Dem senators were having (allegedly according to Slotkin in a conference call) is that if Dems voted to shut down the government, they wouldn’t have any power to call Congress into session again, making Trump for all practical purposes a king.
Baud
@chemiclord:
I don’t understand that.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@chemiclord:
Why would they not have any power to call Congress into session if the government was shutdown?
I understand Republicans are in control in both chambers but what does one have to do with the other?
ETA: Congress is an independent entity from the rest of the federal government (executive branch), being another co-equal branch. They fund themselves
BellaPea
I hate, hate, hate what is going on this country. Dump and Musk make me want to put my fist through the wall. Democrats need to find their way to somehow get us at least past this mess to see some daylight. I understand why Lawrence O’Donnell is taking a week off. I wish I could take a year off from this horrible shit.
cain
@chemiclord:
How would you re-open the govt if congress can’t meet? How can Trump do anything if there is no money to spend? Still struggling here.
ETA I get it that Dems can’t get congress to meet. But I think GOP will be coming to the table if the govt is shut down.
Baud
@cain:
I don’t know. I certainly have no idea what would actually move American voters.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Egg prices …
Stella
@chemiclord: At a certain point you’re not preventing a worse outcome anymore, you’re just helping dig the hole.
We keep hearing the Dems are the minority party. Yes. And one of the few things they actually can do as the minority party is block votes like this in the Senate. If we don’t want them to do this, what is even left for them to do? How is it actually better for us that they’re in the Senate instead of a random Republican in their seat? What is the purpose of power if you never actually use it?
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Then we’re home free.
Jay
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1900241559997866319.html?utm_campaign=topunroll
Baud
@Stella:
They’ll block a lot of terrible things over the next two years. But not this.
Jay
@Baud:
@Nukular Biskits:
And one person’s age, another person’s gender, and another person’s skin colour.
Jackie
AOC isn’t happy with Schumer:
Another Scott
@cain:
In 2018, the federal courts had 3 weeks of carry-over funding.
As zg said, and as we all know, Democrats are in the minority. They’re trying their best with what limited power they have.
There is, as Baud related, a real danger that 47 could make things even worse with a (partial) government shutdown.
Like most here, I’m upset that there doesn’t seem to be a way to force even a temporary legislative win in Congress right now. But I (generally) trust these folks to be making the best of the powers they have.
Thought experiment:
1) The GQP fails in the Senate. Government shuts down on 1201AM Saturday.
2) ???
3) The other side sees the error of their ways and passes a budget bill with Democratic input that restores the illegal cuts, etc., etc.
Even if Democrats continued to filibuster, that doesn’t make things painful for 47 or the MAGA types. They want to burn everything down and want as little opposition as they can get. He’ll lie about the reasons, blame Democrats, and nearly half the country will eat it up, and another 25% will “pox on both their houses, I just want them to open the government so I can …”
Remember 47 shut the government down for 35 days in December 2018 – January 2019. That was after 3 days in January 2018.
If the Democrats don’t cough up 8 votes tomorrow, then what?
Thune won’t bring up a bill that reduces their power or cuts 47s. Why should he??
It’s going to be a painful, frustrating, career-destroying, and life-endangering (and worse), slog until we vote the monsters out. We need to fight for every gettable vote, for every stretch seat, and we need to keep elections in the forefront of our response-thinking. Anything that gets in the way should be resisted as much as we’re able.
We need to give our folks the grace to try to work out the best path through the flaming jungle, lava traps, quicksand, etc., etc. They didn’t cause this mess. They’ve been in politics long enough to know that there’s no easy solution.
+ another increment to the thermometer.
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Jay
@Baud:
My count is that so far, in 2 months and a bit. all the Dem’s have managed to “block”, and that was with a couple of Rethug’s help, is an anti-Trans bill.
1 is not plenty.
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Wanting Dems to do better isn’t the same as blaming them for GOP evil, either.
frosty
@zhena gogolia: I understand you’re not reading this, but my answer to you is that there’s nowhere on the internet where I can go now to be cheered up.
Not even Wonkette.
Gvg
@zhena gogolia: actually your statement may re rail? This thread and get peoples head straightened out. We shall see. I have noticed that when I go read actual sources, a lot of times I don’t think it says quite as much as the hair on fire posters think it does. A lot of times it’s best to wait. Maybe make some calls to Congress people, those are usually recommended in all situations
Baud
@Jay:
How many bills have the Republicans passed?
How many do you think they’d pass if we replaced the Dems with Republicans?
ETA: what do you mean with the GOP’s help? Dems had votes to block it on their own.
frosty
Sucks to be a salmon! Downstream of Grand Coulee, anyway.
Captain C
Just called Sen. Gillibrand’s NYC office and left a message to please consider voting no on cloture and the CR bill itself. Not sure about the rest, but based on today’s phone/contact experiences Sen. Gillibrand runs a much more professional operation than Schumer does.
Also, apropos of nothing at all, I once had a dream that I was at a country fair and Senator Gillibrand and a friend came up to me and the good Senator asked if I knew where they could get some cannabis-infused pancakes. Pancakes! I was amazed in-dream by the specificity of the request.
Jay
@Baud:
Rethug’s Legislate? When? Whocouldhave nood!!!!!!!!!!!
That’s an oxymoron.
WTFGhost
In the meantime, some Haitians, whom Trump accused of eating the dogs and cats of the people who lived in Springfield OH, are shocked that their TPS status has been abruptly ended, with all indications that Trump wants to deport them. And it’s like, *guys* – by MAGATruth, you steal and eat dogs and cats, so of course he wants to deport you. Remember: Trump never admits to a mistake.
Now, maybe if you want to make some noise, and say that this terrible man tells terrible lies about you, you have to fear he’ll deport you that much sooner. Strangely, if you’d demanded people take this man, Trump, seriously, asking “how can you follow a man who believes such despicable lies? Who bellows them on a debate stage?”, if you’d done all that while Joe Biden was President, well, you’d have been perfectly safe… even if you were criticizing Joe Biden, and not his opponent, you’d be perfectly safe.
Now, you’re not. Which sucks. That’s why I, along with millions of others, voted against the half brained, half assed, half-putz, Trump.
Anyway: to everyone who cared about those folks, and felt it was important to calm the tensions before the election, rather than discussing the kinds of people who were going to be elected, how’d that work out for you?
Another Scott
Horse’s mouth:
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
This was what I speculated was the motive.
geg6
I am just about done with Democrats, especially Senate Democrats. I don’t know where to go or what to do but these feckless cowards are NOT my people. They should just tell Schumer and Fetterman to fuck off and humiliate ol’ Chuckie by leaving only him and that asshole I regret ever voting for as the only two joining with Cheetolini and MAGA. They won’t because at least six more cowards exist in that worthless body. But they should.
chemiclord
@Harrison Wesley: His “thinking” is no doubt I have a plate full of bad options, and our caucus can’t come to an agreement on which one is worst, so might as well let Republicans continue to fuck up, and avoids us getting blamed.
Suzanne
As a side note, I will miss Raúl Grijalva. He was very active in Tucson politics during my teen years, and was a fixture during my undergrad years there. He was elected to Congress the year I graduated. A longtime progressive and fighter for environmental causes.
Jay
@Baud:
2 Gropers abstained from voting, so the Bill failed the 60 votes required to move forward.
Suzanne
@geg6:
Come sit by me, friend.
Baud
@Jay:
They wouldn’t have gotten to 60 even with those two. If it’s the bill I’m thinking of, every Dem voted against it.
Omnes Omnibus
I am watching Buckaroo Banzai. It seems more useful than freaking out.
Darkrose
This is so bad.
The CR strips funding from Washington DC. It gives up Congress’ power over tariffs. It lets Musk do whatever the fuck he wants.
And Schumer is fine with that, apparently.
MagdaInBlack
@Another Scott: Well, I can work with the idea of letting trump own everything, rather than allowing him to blame it on a shut-down that he would say was caused by the Democrats.
But wtf do I know, I’m just a little office manager.
Jay
@Another Scott:
@Baud:
And how is he going to pass tax cuts for the Plutocracy and Gut Social Programs when Government is shut down?
Baud
@Jay:
Congress can still pass bills during a shutdown. That’s how shutdowns end.
Miss Bianca
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, I figured I would drop in after a couple weeks away on a mental health break but I think I’m going to bail again.
Jay
@Baud:
And who turns those bills into action?
Baud
@Jay:
Tax cuts don’t need any action. They’re automatic.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@chemiclord:
Are you OK with the poison pills in the CR like Congress completely giving up it’s authority on tariffs?
From AOC:
Also, you didn’t answer anybody’s replies to your comment at #74. What does one have to do with the other?
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m not freaking out, I’m just trying to figure out how this is going to play out. I mean it could be just re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic and both options suck.
I still don’t know if we should approach this from an optics point of view as Schumer is positing that right now everyone blames Trump for all this and if they step in it would fall on their laps .
The american voter is a puzzle. They’re idiots. Maybe I should just reserve my powder for my fellow voting citizens.
Leto
VoteVets stance on the CR:
VFX Lurker
Good call. Bonus: the end credit sequence is so upbeat and charming on that film.
NaijaGal
I hate to say this, but I think people are relying too much on the Democrats to come up with “a solution.” I think fighting fascism is *not* a skillset that most Dems (or most Americans) have and that because most sane voters don’t know what to do either, it’s easier to yell at Dems. Almost none of us on our own are equipped to handle psychopaths and sociopaths and we are definitely dealing with these. People who derive joy from the pain of people they’ve randomly fired or forced to come in to work when there is no available office space or stripped of their identity on their legal passports, etc. Voters have to recognize that these are not normal people and must work together to fight them.
The options chosen by citizens in other countries that have faced similar situations have been general strikes, demonstrations, sit ins, union opposition/sabotage, etc. Those work very slowly and put individuals at risk but there is no avoiding risk when you’re dealing with fascists. By definition, every win emboldens them to do worse, but they have been defeated every time (even though many defeats took longer than their opponents had hoped).
As people realize that there are limits to what the Democrats can do or will do, I wonder whether the majority of Americans will throw up their hands and disengage or start looking beyond political parties for a way out. Right now, I’m seeing more people throwing up their hands and disengaging than I’d like, because they think Democratic party politicians’ actions are the only path to a “solution.” They may be part of a solution but it is up to us as citizens of a country to decide what kind of country we want to live in, not just a subset of politicians. Fascists were legitimately voted in. We can debate whether people knew what they were voting for but they are in now, they hold many, but not all, of the cards and it’s going to take a lot to push them out. They are not popular with the majority of people, especially not with those they are hurting, but they do have a small bubble of vocal (MAGA) support that they listen to. How do we penetrate that bubble? I like the townhalls that some Democrats are hosting in what would normally be hostile territory. What else can be done? I’m not pretending that I have answers. I don’t. It’s been all I can do to avoid going into full blown depression but I know that isn’t going to help me or anyone else.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
As I said earlier, I understand his reasoning.
I’m just not sure I agree with it.
Baud
@cain:
I’m pretty confident normies won’t notice a think from the government staying open. The only people who’ll be upset with Dems are people paying attention.
Right or wrong, I do think this decision keeps the focus on Trump.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Same here.
cain
@NaijaGal: We have one tool and that is to cut MAGA from our lives – friends, relatives, all of them. If you have the ability to do it then you should.
Let their win be a pyrrhic victory. Remember even with all that winning still want liberals to respect and love them. We don’t to give them jack shit. Let them howl into the void.
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): They didn’t say that they agre with the thinking. Just that that is they reasoning behind voting yes.
There are no good options and there haven’t been since November. Choosing the least bad and then continuing to fight is the only option. Opinions differ as to what the least bad option is.
I am inclined toward the “Fuck you, GOP. You own this” option but I am also aware of the costs of a shut down.
Mai Naem mobil
I’ve been thinking for a while that maybe Chuck Schumer being the leader of the Senate Dems and being the Senator from NY is not a good thing. My guess is that his Wall Street buds are freaking out with the stock market drops and they somehow think a shutdown will make things worse. Also I did hear Kathy Hochul is going to the WH tomorrow so my guess is that Orange Fartcloud is pulling his mafia boss garbage on the NY state and Hochul’s probably talking to Schumer. I usually avoid Orange Fartclouds voice but I happened to be tuned into bloomberg radio and they ran the whole thing. JFC, he sounds like a demented old man being calmed down by people pretending to listen to him allowing him prattle on about his supposed exploits in his younger days. Lots of us have dealt with people like this. You just put a smile on your face and nod while you’re listening to somebody repeat stuff that you’ve heard a million times. If Biden left such a mess why does he have so much time to spend on pressers and filling the Kennedy Center board?
zhena gogolia
@MagdaInBlack: It seems as sensible as anything else.
I was pissed off at Senate Democrats back in July when they were running to the microphones to dump our incumbent President. Now I could care less.
cain
@Baud:
Maybe. But all those vet groups, and other groups start hammering the Dems for allowing this to pass – it might get the media to jump in and then the spotlight would be on Dems and how they could have prevented it. It’s of course all conjecture but it would not surprise me if Dem leadership gets the blame.
zhena gogolia
@NaijaGal: Good comment.
Baud
@cain:
Assuming Dems will be the focus of blame is always a safe bet.
Betty
Chris Hayes is giving Schumer some pushback. Schumer keeps insisting the shutdown would be worse. He doesn’t seem to understand he is giving Trump and Musk permission.
Jay
@Baud:
Don’t they need the IRS?
zhena gogolia
@Baud: What I hear from my normie friend is that Facebook is full of raging fights, with people disowning their friends and family, etc. I don’t remember this from his first term, especially at this stage.
ETA: And Musk threatening Social Security has penetrated their thick skulls.
Baud
@Jay:
Nope.
chemiclord
@Jay:
@Jay:
So wait… all this, and it still fails, huh?
John S.
@Baud:
Right. Keep all eyes on Trump. That will show him. He hates the attention.
Baud
@John S.:
I’m not going to argue with you. But what he wants is irrelevant. What matters is how people react to him. Maybe they’ll end up loving him. Who knows?
John S.
@Baud:
Hey, it doesn’t matter now. He’s a king. Nobody is going to stop him, and clearly the Democrats aren’t even going to try.
Looks like James Carville still has swagger because the Democrats are following his plan: Do nothing and just sit back and hope the Republicans self-destruct or something.
Mai Naem mobil
@NaijaGal: well said. There are no easy solutions here. Every way is going to be painful.
Baud
@John S.:
At least it’s settled.
Omnes Omnibus
@VFX Lurker: So what? Big deal.
John S.
@chemiclord:
So you still think Chuck wouldn’t be so stupid as to do what he did?
Because yesterday, you seemed pretty sure he wouldn’t vote for cloture in exchange for nothing.
John S.
@Baud:
Yup. No more speculation. It’s the Carville Plan from here on out.
Ohio Mom
@cain: I did that years ago. I feel proud, still.
The only things I have to offer is companionship and friendship, small favors, a sympathetic ear when needed, bits of advice, the periodic funny insight. I’m not wasting them on RWNJs.
RaflW
Just finished a really nice day with friends, and got the news of Schumer’s utter collapse.
Why even bother having a two party system. I’m a mix of bereft and livid.
MagdaInBlack
Oh boy, here we go.
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
Did something new happen? Odd comment for # 143.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@WaterGirl: Take look at what they doing in to Baud in the comments and tell why any sane human being would want to waste their time here.
bbleh
@Baud: it does. And it keeps the initiative entirely with Trump. And it gives a media victory to Trump. And it makes the Dems look even more feckless than usual.
It’s an epic fail, from the public waffling to the “loud” caucus meeting to the ultimate surrender. And the through-line is, “we don’t want to be blamed.”
It might be argued that the best alternative was to duck. And they certainly have been ducking to date! But if they were gonna surrender, they could have surrendered early on. “Donald Trump owns this and we will not participate,” or some such. Walk out, abstain from voting. But no.
What an epic fail.
And I sympathize with Zhena Gogolia, but FFS!! Why are these people even earning salaries?
Baud
WTFGhost
@Another Scott:
Shorter Chuck Schumer: “I don’t want a negative ad blitz against Democrats, I want to keep focused on something, as well as something else, and one other thing – maybe two. I’m not sure what those things *are* yet, but when I get a transplant, so I have a human liver, and not a lily liver, I’ll be ready for the spine transplant….”
Correct Response: “If the Republicans in the House wanted to get this through the Senate, they knew how to get bipartisan support. They chose not to ask for bipartisan support, so I can’t give them bipartisan support. The opposition party never votes for a purely partisan bill.”
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
What are they doing to me?
Nukular Biskits
What mister mix said …
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@John S.:
I remember them saying that. I had hoped they were right.
I suspect you won’t get an answer. They haven’t answered me or anybody else who questioned them over their comment at #74
John S.
@Baud:
You’re being repressed. And if you keep it up, we’ll turn you into a newt!
NaijaGal
@cain: I have no MAGA people in my life (friends or relatives) – if I did, screaming at them would be somewhat cathartic. I’m still donating to congressional races, even those I believe are a long shot, because taking back the House would really help.
I’m calling my rep and my senators but they are all Democrats. Most of my friends and relatives, even those who are socially conservative and very religious (many Nigerian immigrants are born-again Christians), understood the threat and voted Blue in November. They’ve lived here a while and experienced enough racism to understand that making America “great again” really means making sure that they and people who look like them suffer just for being different from the majority.
Ksmiami
Schumer needs to go. What a disaster
Raoul Paste
@Omnes Omnibus: A true classic.
“ Is that Yes on one and No on two?”
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: no, i was just watching the progression of some comments. nuthin’ important =-)
Darkrose
Democrats in the House stood strong. I’ve been critical of Jeffries, but he held his caucus in line with only one idiot defecting, only for Schumer to capitulate.
Democrats will own the catastrophe along with the GOP, but it won’t matter because this CR cedes Congress’s power to the Executive. Good luck undoing that.
Steve LaBonne
@JaneE: Wait till they privatize Social Security and everyone is in that boat.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
I disagree that there aren’t any good options. I think that’s an excuse and you’re letting Dems off the hook. They look stupid and weak doing things like this, as bbleh said at #146.
I mean, doesn’t the fact that a lot of commenters are pissed off about this, including some regulars who have often given the benefit of the doubt to Dem leadership, say anything to you?
ETA: I can understand Shumer’s reasoning, honestly, but it’s ill-suited for the situation. This is a strategy that would make sense in Trump 1.0, not Trump 2.0. And even towards the end of 1.0, things were getting dicey w/ the Little Green Men from DHS beating protestors up and windowless white unmarked vans kidnapping people off the streets of Portland
Steve LaBonne
@Darkrose: The courts will save us. I crack myself up sometimes.
Steve LaBonne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Even the fucking Federal employee unions said the CR is worse than a shutdown.
Grin and Bare
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Absolutely agree! I’m a government contractor, and I will lose pay if the shutdown happens, and I WANT IT TO HAPPEN.
catclub
I see the CR passed by the House as not even being a CR, but a new set of things given to Trump.
So it accelerates Trump defunding things he does not like.
Are the Democrats talking about a different, 30 day CR?
Martin
@Omnes Omnibus: My problem with what I’ve read is that Democrats seem to be approaching this as an accounting exercise – which decision will have objectively the worse outcome. But this isn’t an accounting exercise, it’s a political one, and a LOT of democrats seem to be unable to understand what is the most beneficial political result.
Spanky
Jesus! I shouldn’t read Balloon Juice with a wine glass in my hand.
Stella
@Martin: Yeah, exactly this. Republicans understand, if nothing else, how to make their base excited for voting for them. Democrats seem to think it’s beneath them to even consider making their base excited.
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): What is the good option? I don’t think I am letting anyone off the hook. If your only options are bad you still have an obligation to mitigate harm. To choose the least bad.
ETA: I am sorry, but are you under the impression that I am taking Schumer’s side in this?
NeenerNeener
I’ve heard a rumor that the Republicans in Congress are getting death threats so they’ll bend the knee to Trump. If it works on the Republicans it will work on the Democrats too.
planetjanet
@Gretchen: I am not sure that there is a poison pill. Schumer referred to a clean CR, not the version the House passed. That would be different.
Jackie
@Ksmiami:
I actually agree with you. I have no clue who should become the Dems Senate Leader, but Chuck’s past his prime. It’s time for new, younger and STRONG leadership.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
The least bad, in my opinion, is to deny cloture and endure a short-term government shutdown to get concessions out of the GOP, to at least get them to remove the poison pills that others have mentioned, handing more authority to the administration. As Martin mentioned above, there’s a political dimension to this with risk of pissing off engaged Dems and creating more rifts.
ETA: Perhaps I misunderstood you, but whose side but Schumer’s could you be taking?
Mai Naem mobil
I really think TFG is trying to intentionally crash the economy. Edolph is just a drug addled attention ho with daddy issues. I don’t know if Putin is telling him to do it or he’s a psycho/sociopath. None of this makes sense. I’m not even sure how it makes sense for Bezos, Google or Apple. Who do they think are going to buy their products?
catclub
@planetjanet:
Maybe this is what Schumer means when he says he will vote to keep the government open. vote for a clean CR.
Maybe.
mapaghimagsik
@Baud:
You probably already know this, but I’ll state the obvious. They’re going to anyway.
cain
@Steve LaBonne:
Not everyone .. Congress will still get their govt healthcare.
mapaghimagsik
@NeenerNeener: It doesn’t take death threats. It just takes a camper van or something like it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Sorry, mate, you said there was a good option. Now you are agreeing with me that we need to choose the least bad. Which is it?
ETA: FFS, read what I wrote.
eclare
Another plane accident
bsky.app/profile/schroedinger.bsky.social/post/3lkcfyzz64s2r
This is getting ridiculous. And scary.
Geminid
@Jackie: That House Democratic plan Rep.Ocasio-Cortez touted– a 30 day clean CR with negotiations for a longer-term deal– sounds pretty good. The only problem is, Republicans would have to agree to it and I don’t see why they would.
I think they wanted a shutdown. I’d even argue they needed one, in order to muddy the waters and obscure theirs and Trump’s responsibility for a crashing economy.
So the way I see it, Schumer and the other 7 Democrats will have kept Congressional Democrats from walking into a trap. We’ll never know for sure though, because this kind of social science experiment can only be run once.
catclub
@Mai Naem mobil: relevant! I think it is over 14 years old now.
Quote of the Day: What Passes For Hope These Days
A quote from a four-year-old post by Jonathan Schwarz titled Global Warming: Why We’re Not 100% Doomed:
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@catclub:
@planetjanet:
There would be a vote for a clean CR that would probably fail and then the House CR would be voted on, with that passing with Republican backing and all Dems voting against, which would be meaningless.
Voting Yes for cloture is a Yes for the House CR
VFX Lurker
@Omnes Omnibus: LOL. I need to watch Buckaroo Banzai again.
Fun fact: the late Foundation Imaging pitched a Buckaroo Banzai show 25-30 years ago. Foundation handled VFX for Star Trek: Voyager and the first few seasons of Babylon 5.
I think the Space Shuttle landing gag from that sales pitch may have inspired the plane landing gag in the “405: The Movie” (2000).
Martin
@chemiclord: I think we’re at the moment that we need to test that. If a shutdown means that we lose one branch of government, I think the public need to see that and understand the consequences.
We’re effectively at the point that the judiciary has no constitutional power against the executive. We’re questioning whether the legislature does as well. That leaves us relying on the military choosing sides between the public and the executive, and following that civil disorder. The thing the executive benefits from is continuing the appearance of proper checks and balances even when there is functionally none. It would benefit us if that facade was ripped down.
eclare
@mapaghimagsik:
Camper van? Thomas has an RV that prob cost $500k.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
I thought you were saying that Shumer’s course of action was the least bad option?
ETA: Sorry, I most have missed that last paragraph.
pajaro
@zhena gogolia:
the Democrats don’t need to be in the majority for the Continuing Resolution. It requires 60 votes. 10 Democrats need to vote for Closure, which they apparently are going to do.
cain
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
How much stupid shit has tuberville done and it doesn’t really fix the perceptions of that party.
I think we are playing a public optics game it is not going to work out.
Anyway, I am done .. I don’t think I have anything new to contribute. The wheel weaves as it will.
Martin
@Stella: It’s not even about driving voter engagement. It’s about the principles on which this government is supposed to operate, which the CR tears down. Democrats have one notable point of leverage, and they don’t even want to use the one lever they have. Whats the point of giving Democrats power if they refuse to use it? That’s the message they’re sending, and I don’t think they realize that.
catclub
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It seems crazy that is how senate rules work. I have never heard of the Democrats working them that way in their favor.
u
Considering ending phone service for retirement and disability claims. Almost 10% of Americans have no internet access. Not that these assholes would give a shit. reviews.org/internet-service/how-many-us-households-are-without-internet-connection/. Plus the fact that the people who apply for Social Security and disability claims are … wait for it … OLD and/or DISABLED and many do not have young relatives nearby who can help them navigate a website. Jesus. I believe in no religion, but I really want there to be a hell for people like Trump and Musk.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): But you don’t know it would have a short term shutdown, that ended with substantial Republican concessions. That’s a best-case scenario in my opinion.
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): No. Here are some words I actually wrote:
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@catclub:
The theory goes that I’ve read is that Senate Republicans would allow a vote for a 30-day clean CR or votes for amendments to the House CR that will inevitably fail in exchange for Dems voting for cloture on the House CR so Dems can say they had a “say”. Dems would vote No against the House CR but it would be meaningless because it would only require a majority vote for passage
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s why I said I missed the last paragraph, referring to what you quoted. My mistake
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
Maybe, but I think it’s a risk worth taking.
Also, see Martin’s comments at #164, #183, and especially #188
ETA: Also, doesn’t the fact that government employee unions are saying the House CR would be worse than a shutdown mean anything to you?
ETA 2: All this does is kick the can down the road and make things worse
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Well, for starters, they’ve burned your pants in effigy. I mean, I don’t get it either, but, well, there’s no accounting for taste. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Steve in the ATL
@Spanky:
Dude, that’s exactly how Jesus reads Balloon Juice! Some of his late night posts can get a little crazy as a result.
geg6
@cain:
Schumer’s instincts for what voters want are questionable, to be more polite than he deserves. There is no one in leadership in either house that I trust to fight for anything at this point. This is why we lose—we keep saying, oh they must know something I don’t know or but they are just keeping their powder dry or the Democrats will be blamed or some other bullshit excuse. They can’t do much because they sucked so bad in 2024 that they let MAGA get a trifecta, but they can at least give the appearance of being willing to fight. But no, Chuck Schumer has some 11 dimensional chess that we peons just don’t understand. Fuck that shit. I understand perfectly, they don’t know shit as far as I can tell and Democrats are fucking always blamed. This will win them exactly zero voters and definitely lose a non-zero number who are sick of the cowards leading the party.
Chief Oshkosh
@WTFGhost:
Overall, isn’t this both what the base wanted AND what is “safest” when it comes to not being blamed? I can’t see an error in your logic – do others here?
Melancholy Jaques
@sentient ai from the future:
I wrote both mine (Schiff & Padilla) a few days ago. Feeling like a chump right now.
geg6
@cain:
As they should. No matter what happens. They suck and should be toppled. Yesterday.
sentient ai from the future
@geg6:
i mean, the dems didnt suck that bad in 2024, the map did most of the work. dems narrowed the house majority and had a serious uphill battle in the senate. i am equivocal or in agreement on your other points but am suspicious when you include this one because it reinforces the “incompetent dems” narrative, and this is a distraction at best.
Chief Oshkosh
@Spanky:
Of course not, silly Spanky. One must always approach BJ with a martini in one hand, a rake in the other, and a cat upon one’s lap.
John S.
@geg6:
I think one of the worst parts about this situation is that Schumer basically went out there yesterday to yank everyone’s chain.
He figures normies have no clue about parliamentary procedures (and he’s right), so he dropped a lot of blather about cloture to give the appearance of putting up a fight while he was actually giving away the game.
I think that kind of deception is really shitty.
sentient ai from the future
@Melancholy Jaques: just today, they both voted no on a cloture vote for a different bill: senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1191/vote_119_1_00124.htm
so they seem like exactly who you would be glad to have representing you, they are being obstructionist like we are asking them to.
Darkrose
@planetjanet: There is no clean CR. They’re voting yes on allowing the current bill to proceed to a vote, which will require a straight majority to pass.
Chief Oshkosh
@Mai Naem mobil:
You’re thinking like a worker. The owner class, at the top levels, don’t really care. In fact, as others have pointed out, they will benefit because if there is a collapse, they will be able to buy up resources, including humans, at firesale prices.
pajaro
@NaijaGal:
what democrats in Congress can do is vote. In the Senate, in cases where 60 votes are needed to pass legislation, they can say no. By voting for closure, they are letting Republicans, who have the majority make the decision.
I have relentlessly pushed back on people blaming Democrats on not saying the right thing, or failing to win a fight that, as a minority, they couldn’t win. This is different. They can stop this measure from passing. If they don’t they are saying it’s OK to have that measure become law.
Another Scott
@Martin: I’m genuinely curious – what do you think the next step in the Senate (and eventually the House) would be if 8+ Democrats don’t vote for cloture and the House bill tomorrow?
Why would the GQP give the Democrats anything significant? How would a shut down hurt their efforts to destroy the federal workforce and the administrative agencies? What would keep the press and about 75% of the country from screaming that it’s the Democrats’ fault?
IOW, what’s the end-game when the other side wants to break everything and blame everyone else but themselves?
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Darkrose
I keep thinking about the line from Hamilton wrt Schumer: “If you stand for nothing, Chuck, what’ll you fall for?”
pajaro
@geg6: this isn’t just whether they are willing to fight. Finally, they have the power to do something. They can stop the CR from becoming law. If they don’t it’s on them.
Citizen Alan
@frosty: I’m a paid subscriber to Wonkette because I think they do important work. And I blocked their emails because my inbox was just a wall of depressing awful news.
sentient ai from the future
@John S.: it’s also possible that he’s counting votes and there are enough dems intending to vote with fucking fetterman for cloture that he wants to alert everyone that that’s going to happen, so that the outrage response can be sufficiently vocal?
it’s furthermore possible that he knows the cloture vote will fail even with his and fetterman’s vote and wants to be seen as a negotiator of whatever comes next?
i can see multiple possibilities here.
John S.
@sentient ai from the future:
Schumer fucking played us.
nytimes.com/2025/03/13/opinion/trump-musk-shutdown-senate.html
This just hit the NY Times an hour ago. That means he wrote this in advance.
geg6
@Melancholy Jaques:
Same in regard to Fetterman.
WTFGhost
also, to one of the bluesky tweets:
“over FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of imaginary money has vanished. Some of the imaginary money loss was depressed prices of negotiable securities.”
@Martin: And part of the problem here, is, there’s no good messaging. Democrats sometimes cringe from “messaging” because, well… it’s propaganda. That’s the right word for it – it’s not a nice word, but it’s the right word.
When you put on a play about how children are happier when they share playthings, you’re trying to impart values, and you will ignore all contrary evidence, nor will you attempt to court the controversy of Randroids versus human beings. Nor will you point out the plight of children for whom sharing is a much, much, harder concept.
No wonder Sesame Street keeps its writers busy, eh?
Well, Republicans have such a sophisticated propaganda network, Republicans can often claim Democrats are pedophiles, and it gets lost in the noise.
Democrats can’t do the same thing, because if both parties are lying, cheating, evil, scum who only seek power over others, the country is getting effed from both sides fandf fwhof fwantsf fthatf?
But someone, has to do something, about extending the reach of Democratic tinged propaganda, like “These were good workers, who believed in the jobs they were doing, and Trump fired them all, claiming they all sucked. Here are five or ten or twenty examples, boy, just imagine if *your* boss fired you, just because you hadn’t been at your job for two full years, and said it was because you sucked – regardless of your performance?”
Oh, wait, that’s not even propaganda, that’s the plain, bitter, truth. Still: we’re not going to suggest there was any thought of “efficiency” because there wasn’t – some probationary employees got paid less, and did more, than some time-servers waiting for the next pension boost.
Oh, wait – we don’t know that, for sure, do we? *NOW* you see why it’s propaganda. We know it *is* true – there was at least one probie doing more than some oldster, but the probie got the ax. Statistically speaking, it’s a certainty. And if not, who cares?
We don’t *have* to find the example. That’s one of the things Republicans have taught us. “What do you mean? Millions of people are talking about those firings, some up-and-comer fired over some timeserving slob! There’s too many examples to list!”
But we do need people willing to broadcast pro-democracy propaganda, to counter the pro-Republican, KKK-style, propaganda.
pajaro
@Another Scott:
The union of federal employees, people whose jobs are on the line, want the Dems to fight. They know who is responsible. Senators from Maryland and Virginia are ready to vote against closure. People know that Trump is setting fire to the government. Democrats can say, honestly, that all they want is for Trump to promise that they will actually obey the law and spend the money the Dems appropriate.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The position of the government unions means something to me, but I don’t neccesarliy agree with them or think they are dispositive. And I want to see what they say next, after the bill passes. That will mean something too.
And yes, I read Martin’s comments.
mapaghimagsik
@Chief Oshkosh:
My cocktail of choice for Balloon Juice these days is
Its all I got these days.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: I knew I liked you. One of the most fun movies ever.
geg6
@Another Scott:
What is your end game for how voting for this shit will benefit anyone or any principle?
My idea of the end game to this particular fight is that the government is fucked either way, whether a shutdown or giving up the powers of the legislative branch. So you might as well demonstrate to people that you are willing to fight with whatever poor weapons you have. What you don’t do is try to lie to your base because you think they are stupid and scheme to lie down in front of the bus that’s barreling down on us all. Sure doesn’t incentivize me to start donating to Democrats again. Doesn’t look like I’ll ever have to, I guess. Once Congress has no power, what would be the point?
geg6
@pajaro:
Agreed. Not sure I made that clear.
Jackie
O/T but watch Vance get loudly booed at a not full house at the Kennedy Center.
x.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1900328526630576466?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1…
Edited to apologize for ugly link
Citizen Alan
Understandable. OTOH, I would rather the Dem leadership be from blue states. Schumer’s predecessor was Harry Reid, who was in a close race in his last campaign against that lunatic Sharon Angle. And his predecessor was Tom Daschle, who lost his reelection to John Thune in 2004.
Another Scott
@pajaro: Understood.
And Schumer knows these things. He works with federal employees every day, of course.
Part of being a leader is knowing when to go all-in, and when to make a tactical retreat.
If it’s actually the case that during a shutdown the federal courts will close after they burn through any carry-over money they have, then one of the important areas where 47 has been convincingly losing will be closed to us. That would be a big deal.
I get the anger at voting for cloture. I wanted Democrats to force a loss on 47 and the MAGA folks as well. But I also want the people who do this job for a living, and have for decades in many cases, to be thinking about the bigger picture – How will whatever they do hasten the next Democratic victory in flipping the House and Senate?
Righteous anger is righteous, but will it help throw the monsters out? Or will it make it harder for normies and disaffected voters and all the rest to support us?
FWIW.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
dnfree
@JaneE: Yeah, my company share of my 401(k) was entirely in Goodyear stock at 80-plus when I left the company in 1999. I didn’t get it moved in 2000 before the stock dropped below 20.
Melancholy Jaques
@sentient ai from the future:
I should have been more clear, but I was commenting on the fly. Schiff & Padilla are listed as “no on cloture” on Josh Marshall’s tally sheet. That’s great. But as Marshall noted in a post on bluesky
I want transparency on this. I want to know who thinks what Schumer is doing is bad enough that they will publicly say so. Otherwise, it’s all Susan Collins Style Bullshit.
NB – I admit that I am not a reasonable person on this, meaning I do not accept any excuse for voting yes on cloture. Trump & Musk must be opposed loudly & proudly or the general public – the dullards who decide election outcomes – will believe the Democrats approve of what Trump & Musk are doing.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Another Scott:
Have the federal courts actually stopped any of the abuses? The administration has been ruled against multiple times now and DOGE is still going full steam ahead to dismantle the Dept of Education.
John S.
@Another Scott:
I hope you’re a political consultant. If not, you missed your calling.
Jay
@Another Scott:
USAID back up and running, nope.
Budget back, nope.
All workers rehired, nope.
DOGE shut down, nope.
Etc. etc, etc.
How many divisions do the Courts have, oh yeah, none.
frosty
@Citizen Alan: That’s my situation with TPM. I haven’t blocked their emails but I only read about half of the Morning Memos any more.
Another Scott
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I assume that was rhetorical.
Believe it or not, things can always get worse. The courts could always rule that whatever 47 wants to do is fine because “unitary executive” and during emergencies (or whatever 47 decides is an emergency because “unitary executive”) nobody can question him, etc., etc.
The courts have been ruling against him and Melon. The courts cannot and will not do the job of law enforcement. But they have power to sanction lawyers, jail people for contempt, render judgments against them, and all the rest of the stuff that courts do. Lawyers don’t want to lose their law licenses.
The courts have, thus far, been on the side of sanity. We need them to stay working. (I’m not saying that that’s the only consideration, or that it trumps other considerations on voting for or against cloture. I’m saying it’s a legitimate consideration.)
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
Well, the SCOTUS does have the Supreme Court Police. They probably can’t make arrests like the House and Senate Sergeant At Arms or the US Marshals Service can
frosty
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): US Marshalls work for DOJ who work for Trump. I wouldn’t count on them.
sentient ai from the future
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): my understanding (from here, would love a reference) is that federal courts are authorized to actually hire or assemble their own force if the us marshals service (as part of DoJ) refuses to do what they ask.
chemiclord
@John S.: Well, clearly the answer is he’s Lloyd Christmas level stupid.
Enjoy your win, I guess.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@chemiclord:
John S is on record hoping this wouldn’t happen
Citizen Alan
It’s not the case. When the money runs out, clerks and judges will just work without pay and then (hopefully) get paid when the shutdown ends.
Jay
@Another Scott:
No sanctions, no contempt, no judgements, despite years of DJTdiot’s court clown shows and now it’s the DOJ lawyers with out enough ethics to quit, donning the face paint, the wig, red noses and oversized shoes, and putting on clown shoes in front of Judges with “the dog ate my homework” presentations.
and Law Licenses are the purview of the Bar Associations.
Chief Oshkosh
@Citizen Alan: The Daschle loss hurt. I wrote his office about my disappointment and what I understood as to impact on his priorities – you know, back when people wrote long, detailed messages to electeds, and then printed and FAXED them (admittedly, that was old school even back then). Out of the blue I later received a very nice, detailed, and personal letter from his wife! I always thought that that was both nifty and weird. Wish I still had it.
Citizen Alan
@frosty: Mine too. I check TPM once a week and usually close the window after 20 seconds.
No One You Know
@sentient ai from the future: He’s not even a peaceable quisling. I’m really starting to loathe him and his “leadership.”
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_Police
Another Scott
@Citizen Alan: Thanks, but unless the law says that folks must work without pay and will be paid later, then (as I understand it) the Antideficiency Act comes into play (if someone works for the federal government, they must be paid – they can’t volunteer their services). E.g. Duke.edu (from May 2024):
Corrections welcome.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
chemiclord
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): He sure sounds happy he’s right.
Again, I hope it enjoys being right, because that’s more than I’ve got right now.
geg6
@sentient ai from the future:
The Dems are incompetent, witness the current situation. As for how great the Dems did in 2024, the map had nothing to do with losing the White House. And I won’t relitigate last summer but they showed how stupid, incompetent and feckless they were then and they still are, if not more so.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
Yes? I mentioned them. I’m not sure if they can be used to make arrests of federal officials for not obeying the Court’s rulings; if that’s something that can be ordered/changed by the Chief Justice or if that’s limited by actual law
RaflW
This is just posted from Kat Rohn, the Exec. Director of OutFront MN, the state’s leading LGBTQAI+ org (both a C(3) and a C(4)). I’m with them on this:
Jay
@sentient ai from the future:
a Judge would have censure one of
DOJ’sDJTdiot’s lawyers, find them in contempt, fine them, and they never have, once. They aren’t going to start now.Another Scott
@Jay: I guess we’re all doomed and lawyers can lie to courts without consequences. Might as well give up.
What’s that??
Forbes.com:
Huh.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
It’s both. They are limited in law, and by the Supremes.
US Institutions have a lot of “teeth” on paper, those Institutions you may have noticed, have failed.
No One You Know
@Chief Oshkosh: That should be in the Rules. I don’t know how snarling jackals manage the cat in the lap thing, that’s definitely 11- dimensional chess. By cats.
Jay
@Another Scott:
So in 16 years from now, we can enjoy the disbarment of all the current DOJ lawyers lying to the Courts,
LMFAO.
Yes, Surrender Dorothy.
Martin
@Another Scott: You can’t fire people if the people who process that paperwork aren’t allowed to work.
This is why I have always pointed out that just because Trump says something doesn’t mean it will happen. I can say I’m going to throw a no-hitter against the Yankees, but that means nothing until the actual work is done to accomplish that, and in a bureaucracy, that requires the workers. Nothing happens without the workers. A shutdown shuts down the workers.
It also draws attention to something that a lot of people still are not paying much attention to. And it’s an issue that benefits Democrats, so they should lean into it. The Democrats line should be very simple: this is not a budget we were consulted on, Republicans are in the majority and say they have a mandate go ask them why there’s no budget.
Geminid
Veteran Capitol Hill reporter Jamie Dupree noted some criticisms of the the House CR. From Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky):
Dupree commented, “Fact check TRUE.”
He also reposted another Kentucky Republican, Senator Rand Paul:
Dupree commented:
Some replies to Senator Paul’s post show that others see what Jamie Dupree sees:
Another pissed off Republican:
This six month CR is nothing like what Republicans promised their base last year. That is another reason House and Senate Republicans would benefit politically from a government shut down. They need to muddy the waters, both to obscure their responsibility for a cratering economy and to divert attention from their broken promises.
Jay
@Geminid:
It’s not a “clean” CR.
tax.thomsonreuters.com/news/house-passes-budget-cr-in-final-days-before-shutdown/
Another Scott
@Martin:
Melon and his minions seem to think that you can get around that by telling people the office is closed and similar things.
The infamous “fork” memo said that federal employees could “voluntarily” (quit now or probably be fired later, who knows, why take a chance??) sign up for “deferred resignation” in which they would get paid for 6 months (until 9/30) via “administrative leave”. Even though the law says they can’t offer such a thing (10 working days max administrative leave in the law) and even though there’s no funding to pay people not to do anything for 6 months.
Yes, 47 says a lot of things, hoping to panic people into doing what he wants.
I don’t see that this answers my question about what happens after the government is (partially) shut down. 47 would scream that it’s the Democrats fault while Melon continues to try to break as much as possible as quickly as possible, but now without the courts being able to rule against him, with hundreds of thousands suddenly out of work, and all the rest.
What leverage do Democrats have to force the GQP to have a sensible CR? Very little, AFAICS.
The shut-down would eventually end. What would Democrats gain at that time?
Leaning into “they’re the majority, they have to figure it out” is fine as an abstract strategy, but it’s not clear that normies will buy it. The press will remind them that 60 votes are needed in the Senate and the difference has to come from Democrats.
Remember all the screaming that the National Parks were closed during one of 47’s shutdowns? And remember that Congress changed the law so that the parks would not be forced to close if there was another shut down?? That got a lot more coverage than stories about people being out of work, funding being frozen, and all the rest…
Don’t Inconvenience Me!! is up there with No Step on Snek…
FWIW.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
John S.
@chemiclord:
I take no joy when others are going to suffer so much. I said yesterday, I didn’t want this to happen. But I’m not Chuck Schumer.
And I don’t care if I’m right. I think it sucks that you had more faith than I did. I wish I could have more faith, but it is what it is.
rikyrah
@Jackie:
FOH😠😠😠
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: I didn’t make a very response originally. The problem is that this is not just a normal CR. In fact, it’s much more like a bag of poison pills with a CR riding caboose. Those pills will accelerate the shutdown.
chemiclord
@John S.: It’s less a matter of “faith,” and a matter of “WTF?”
I can wrap my head around the idea that the Democrats have a pile of shit in front of them, and they’re trying to decide which is the least bad piece of shit. I’m guessing that at this point, they can’t reach a consensus and so Schumer is throwing his hands up, giving up, and letting his caucus “vote their conscience.”
But I really don’t see how this is nearly as hard of a question as Schumer and his coalition want it to be. They’re trying to play eleven-dimensional chess with a pigeon, and surprisingly (all sarcasm intended) it’s not working.
That said, I also know that there’s going to be an element among us that’s going to blame Democrats no matter what they do. We need to stop being scared of them just like we need to stop being scared of Republicans.
different-church-lady
@Geminid:
Have they looked in a mirror? ‘Cause that’s where they’ll find it.
John S.
@chemiclord:
I’m right there with you my friend.
PatD
@Another Scott: In six months you’re not likely to recognize what’s left of our government. Schumer has agreed to give Trump and Musk time and cover by voting for the bill. But hey, we can comfort ourselves by thinking we dodged a bullet by avoiding a shutdown. Meanwhile, Musk’s cronies continue hollowing out agencies and Trump consolidates power over funding as they work to their goal of reducing government staffing to permanent shutdown levels.
Ruckus
@Leto:
As a vet, I get my healthcare from the VA. It’s pretty good, the staff works hard and I earned the VA. Can I get along without the VA? Possibly. But likely not for the rest of my possible life. Two things to consider. First I earned it, along with a lot of people that served their country. Many endured far worse than I did, I see them when I am at the VA. Second, why is it that they are trying to close the VA? The money? That they don’t give a damn that many citizens have served their country for relatively low wages with one of the concepts that they could have decent healthcare after they served. Is it the money that goes towards the veterans? Sure I’d bet it’s not an insignificant amount. But that was one of the costs of having a military with those relatively low paying, oath taking, doing what ever needed to be done concepts. Something millions of vets earned.
This country expects a lot from its citizens. And it should.
Not all of them do what the military expects/demands they do or even understands what often has to be done. But people do it, have been doing it for a lot of decades. I’ve had to work on a beam welded to the mast, over 75 feet in the air, with a safety harness being a rope I tied around my waist. Others worked in spaces that if anything went wrong they could be blown up or burned by 1200psi steam. Including me. The military is often not an easy place to work and exist. There are places/situations that made my time seem like it involved no danger whatsoever. My point is that the military is often not all that and a pint of ice cream. It can be very life threatening. It can be extremely dangerous, sometimes deadly. Sure some of it can be glamorous. Now I never saw any of that but still, one man’s story. How many people on this blog have served, I’d bet it might be a bigger percentage than many imagine.
Once again, I use the VA. I earned it, so did and do many other citizens. We are a nation that has billionaires. We are a nation that has humans sleeping out in public in many/most of our big cities. We have those billionaires who demand more and demand respect for their money. We have people that have given their lives for this country, that didn’t get a real chance to be old farts and find out what it’s like to have billionaires screw over their lives. We have old farts who worked much of their lives to support and protect this country and never came within a bazillion miles of being rich, or even anywhere close. Maybe this is a little self centered but I’ve met a lot of citizens of this country when I was in the USN and when I worked in professional sports and traveled to the 4 corners of the US and many, many places in between. This is a country that is about its citizens and the wealth that we all have being those citizens, the possibilities, the being here, the effort that many have given to bring us this far. The life that we can have, and it’s not a contest to see who can be the biggest jackass. Of course there are some humans that attempt to be exactly that. I can’t imagine who that might be…..
Geminid
@Jay: I did not say this was a “clean” CR, and neither did anybody quoted in this comment.