You know that scene in an action movie when the bad guy runs through the kitchen of a restaurant and pulls down all the pots and pans behind him to slow down his pursuers? We're in that part of the Trump presidency.
— Jason Kander (@jasonkander.bsky.social) July 23, 2025 at 5:45 PM
I’ll repeat myself: Trump doesn’t mind being exposed as a sexual predator. On the other hand, he’s very sensitive to any details about his finances. We know he was hanging around with ‘financial advisor’ Jeffrey Epstein, who seems to have been accepting Russian wire transfers for large sums while providing a range of services to a cadre of rich, powerful men…
(Trump himself probably no longer remembers exactly *what* Epstein may have done for him, financially, but he’d be paranoid about the possibilities regardless.)
"Trump and I bonded for years over our mutual love for underage girls but I had to cut him loose when I discovered he was a crook." ~ paraphrasing Jeffrey Epstein
www.yahoo.com/news/jeffrey…— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha1.bsky.social) July 24, 2025 at 1:42 PM
Business Insider, in 2023:
Jeffrey Epstein said in an unaired interview that he distanced himself from former President Donald Trump after realizing Trump was “a crook,” according to his brother, Mark Epstein.
Mark Epstein told Insider he viewed a clip of the interview, conducted by Trump’s former White House advisor Steve Bannon, after his brother forwarded it to him in the spring of 2019.At the time, Bannon was conducting filmed interviews with the now-dead pedophile financier. Bannon sent Jeffrey Epstein a Dropbox link to a clip, which he forwarded to his brother. The link is no longer active, according to Mark…
For the documentary project, Bannon recorded more than 16 hours of footage, Mark Epstein said. In November of 2018, the Miami Herald ran a series detailing how Jeffrey Epstein secured a secret, lenient plea deal with federal prosecutors in Floria 2007, even after law enforcement concluded at the time that he had sexually abused more than 30 girls.
“Steve Bannon was working with Jeffrey to try to help Jeffrey rehabilitate his reputation,” Mark Epstein told Insider.…
The administration appears not to have been truthful about Trump in the Epstein files, and not to have investigated financial leads.
— Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (@whitehouse.senate.gov) July 24, 2025 at 11:29 AM
===
Senate Finance RM @wyden.senate.gov has found $1.5 billion in Epstein-related ‘Suspicious Activity Reports’ at Treasury and demanded FBI investigation.
— Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (@whitehouse.senate.gov) July 24, 2025 at 11:29 AM
===
Would be hilarious if Musk is the one leaking info about the Epstein Files.
— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha1.bsky.social) July 24, 2025 at 11:46 AM
Murdoch is drip-drip-dripping Epstein info to torture donald. It's working. The more it happens, the more donald lashes out and behaves like a rabid caged animal. The more he freaks out, the more Fox will report on it. In a matter of weeks, Fox viewers can be primed for the Vance transition.
— Kimberley Johnson (@kimberleyjohnson.bsky.social) July 24, 2025 at 3:42 PM
====
Coda:
senate republicans, i strongly encourage you all to follow dwaynebark’s example and have six glasses of bourbon before taking to the floor, you’re doing a great job
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachine.com) July 24, 2025 at 3:21 PM
On The Road – arrieve – Antarctica Part 2
Baud
Very happy the site is mostly functional again.
eclare
@Baud:
Me too! So glad WaterGirl posted the penguins again.
eclare
Sitting here, trying not to sweat, watching Rear Window. Seems appropriate. It’s on Netflix til 7/31.
Suzanne
I mean, I am deeply skeptical about this, but I would love — love — to be underestimating. Y’all. Ketchup on the wall wouldn’t even begin to touch this.
Old School
@Suzanne: I can’t see Trump’s fans being as adoring of Vance.
Chief Oshkosh
Goddamned but Markywhine exemplifies the GOP, dudn’t he? Garbage person in way over his pointy little head, too dumb to keep his lips from flapping.
Kosh III
@Suzanne: “the more Fox will report on it. In a matter of weeks, Fox viewers can be primed for the Vance transition.”
Primed yes, but when Dear Leader is removed, the fury of the MAGAt cultists will be unbelievable. They will blame everyone but Pussy-Grabber. Who knows what will happen?
Mr. Bemused Senior
@eclare: where are these penguins you speak of?
Ihop
It seems that what may being done to the current occupant of the white house isn’t exactly gaslighting, but I am at a loss for a new word.
Elongating?
Ruperting?
Lapassionara
Gallup’s latest poll has Trump under 40% approval.
Baud
@Lapassionara:
The drop in his immigration numbers is a particular bright spot.
Scout211
Well, they are in Antarctica. But you can see all the photos one thread down.
Moondoggus
Of course Trump is a crook. After he kept running casinos, golf courses, buildings, sports franchises and airlines into bankruptcy, he piled up huge amounts of debt on his properties.
he was probably insolvent and nobody would lend him money to pay off loans coming due except DeutchBank, which got him into laundering money for Putin and his petrocriminals.
Now he has a bunch of bitcoin money which he’s trying to figure out how to turn into property. This is why he’s pushing the normalization of bitcoin.
This also really helps his Daddy Putin, who can stop laundering money and use bitcoin instead. Probably makes 20-30 percent more just by doing that.
laura
“Twas decades of underage snatch that killed the beast.” See also, Southpark.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Lapassionara: at 29% with independents. It appears some of our sleeping neighbors are waking up!
Suzanne
@Old School: So Vance terrifies me for other reasons — the people behind him want a whole Catholic integralist neomonarchy, terrifying! — but I agree that the cult is not so transferable.
Anne Laurie
Gitmo-style water torture. Drip… drip… drip…
Scout211
The Daily Beast brought the goods on RFK the lesser.
ETA: This is nothing we haven’t read before but the piling on is something to behold. Bring it on, media.
Suzanne
@Ihop:
Ewwwwww.
MattF
That South Park episode is here.
eclare
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
On the Road was reposted around 3 because the web hoster messed up this morning
Mr. Bemused Senior
@eclare: ah, thanks, I see. I can be so oblivious.
Professor Bigfoot
@Chief Oshkosh: How the HELL did this undeniably mediocre MF manage to become a United States Senator
ETA: I know, I know… but still, damn! Look at this stupid MF!
japa21
It depends on if this is a turning away from just Trump or the GOP as a whole. The thing here is that Trump actually represents the GOP at this point, but to a lot of people, I am afraid he is considered an aberration and once gone they believe the GOP will normalize.
kindness
Vance doesn’t have Trump’s cache among the knuckle dragging MAGA fans. Trump is WWE as opposed to Vance who is a book club. Vance would certainly do every single thing the owners of the Republican Party want (the oligarchs of course), except get re-elected.
Baud
@japa21:
That’s the pattern. Most people still aren’t warm to sticking with us.
New Deal democrat
Okay so this isn’t an open thread, but I didn’t think people would.
From Gallup:
”Six months into his second term, President Donald Trump’s job approval rating has dipped to 37%, the lowest of this term and just slightly higher than his all-time worst rating of 34% at the end of his first term. Trump’s rating has fallen 10 percentage points among U.S. adults since he began his second term in January, including a 17-point decline among independents, to 29%, matching his lowest rating with that group in either of his terms.”
oh, my….
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Suzanne: Theil outright wants to make the game Bio-Shock a reality. He tried that several times here in California.
Martin
If you wanted evidence that the GOP isn’t the party of big business any longer, I present exhibit #22, Markwayne from Oklafuckinghoma. And yes, he’s a retired MMA fighter. He took on that brain damage for your entertainment, like any good red blooded American should.
Matt McIrvin
The thing I don’t quite understand isn’t so much that Epstein is his Achilles’ heel, as why this is happening NOW. Trump’s connections to Epstein were well-known 9 years ago and his fans didn’t seem to mind it then– they brought up Epstein to attack the Clintons! Did they really, truly think the Trump connections were all fake news and he was going to blow the lid off? I sometimes overestimate the extent to which it’s all a game to them.
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: I deny that he’s mediocre. He’s waaaaay below mediocrity.
Scout211
It’s not?
SW
President Pedo is a crook? Say it ain’t so.
bjacques
It was always about the fuckin’ dollars
— Joe Pesci, “Casino”
Suzanne
@Martin: The GOP is the party of white dudebros now, and the women who love/tolerate them.
Ramona
@Lapassionara: Yeahhhh!!!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
One would be hard-pressed to pick a *single* “winner” in the “Dumbest Republican Senator” contest, it’s that hard.
republicanleader.senate.gov/senate-resources/republican-senators
I wouldn’t know where to begin. Hawley, Markbillybob, Toooberville, Cruz, Blackburn and I know people with better knowledge of others can justifiably nominate them.
TNR took a stab at it back in 23:
newrepublic.com/article/177658/dumbest-senator-2023-tommy-tuberville
Baud
@Suzanne:
And big business.
Ihop
@Suzanne: thank you. It came to me in a flash.
.and apropos of nothing, is it irresponsible to speculate that the current occupant of the white house had hulk Hogan excised as deflection from the season debut of south park?
MattF
@Matt McIrvin: I guess the simultaneous announcement from Justice and FBI and the White House, that the whole pedo business wasn’t actually real was the last straw. Bear in mind that the cultists have heard those exact words many times from friends and family. Hearing it now from the people who were expected to bring down the Deep State crossed the line. But, honestly, I have no actual insight into the cult mentality.
lowtechcyclist
@New Deal democrat:
It’s in the thread title, so I kind of assumed it was.
zhena gogolia
@Scout211: Yeah, ask RFK JR’s babysitters.
God, I don’t understand why I’m the only one who knows all the “breaking news” a year before it breaks. All I do is read Vanity Fair.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
People had other priorities over the last year. And also the last decade.
sab
@Professor Bigfoot: Sort of OT:One thing I can say about Ohio -our senators are often slimy as can be and very conservative but so far they have rarely been complete idiots. The more I see of Husted the more I think he might break that trend.
dmsilev
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Cruz isn’t dumb. He’s evil, and anti-charismatic, but not stupid. The others, though…..
Also, I’d suggest adding Rand Paul to the list of contenders.
Josie
@zhena gogolia:
I don’t even read Vanity Fare, and none of this is a surprise to me. But possibly it has to do with our willingness to pay attention.
Martin
@Matt McIrvin: My theory is still holding here:
MAGAs investment isn’t in Trump, but in the uncovering of the Deep State, which the Epstein files are central to. Trump was really just the vehicle to achieve that as Trump was the only politician to give credibility to the conspiracy, so the conspiracy theorists got off the political sidelines, through their weight ALL the way behind Trump and carried him into office. What’s been holding back the release of the information (from their own theories) is that the deep state was too powerful, Trump had to get them out, and that only happened in this term (‘trust the plan’). He has a loyal AG in Pam Bondi, he’s got Patel and Bongino in at FBI, there are now no more excuses. Pam says the client list is on her desk, and then the news drops: there is no list, and the conspiracy was never true.
In MAGAs moment of triumph the rug is yanked out for no reason. Trump calls the whole thing a hoax (and NOBODY believes that Epstein wasn’t a pedophile), and now MAGA is disillusioned, and because the spell has been broken, they’re now receptive to the reporting. My suspicion is that the major publications have a pretty keen sense of what the public is receptive to and what they aren’t and when they saw that the people who really needed to hear about Trumps ties to Epstein were finally receptive to hearing it, they started publishing – a lot of old stuff getting republished and some new stuff that they’ve probably been holding onto should this moment arrive. So the floodgates open.
#metoo worked similarly – nobody believed the accusers until it was Rose McGowan and Ashley Judd, then the public was all ‘oh, wait, you mean they aren’t all gold diggers?’ and the floodgates open there too.
I think what a lot of people are having trouble calibrating here is that if Trump was involved, why did he champion the cause? Why draw attention to his own potential culpability? But Trump has always done that – it’s part of the narcissism. I need the attention today, I’ll deal with the repercussions tomorrow, and he probably thought he could string them on forever, because they really cared about him more than the conspiracy, and I think that was a miscalculation on the part of a lot of people. But flying too close to the sun is pretty classic narcissist behavior. Look at the shit he admits to, which everyone struggles to process because it’s so unusual to see someone admit to wrongdoing and be proud of it at the same time. We don’t know how to process people who don’t feel guilt or shame.
Scout211
Epstein says he split with Trump because Trump was a crook. Trump says he split with Epstein because Epstein was a creep.
Which one of these fine gentlemen can we believe?
Josie
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Cruz is not dumb. Repulsive he is but dumb he is not.
lowtechcyclist
I just don’t believe it’s about the money. The MAGAts don’t and won’t give the tiniest goddamn about any financial crimes Dear Leader might’ve committed. But they apparently were majorly invested in the notion that the Epstein files would blow apart a supposed massive ring of Democratic leaders who sexually preyed on children, and now that’s boomeranging back against Trump on multiple levels. In particular, it’s one of the few things that could peel off enough of his base to make a difference. Not to mention, it might mean a prison cell could be waiting for him in 2029.
I’m sure he’d be angry and upset at the prospect of his finances becoming public. But not scared, unless his finances would expose the quantity and nature of his sexual predation in a way that could throw him either into the poorhouse (by his standards) or prison in 2029.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@dmsilev:
(and Josie at #49):
“Biggest Asshole Republican Senator” is an entirely different contest.
We need a set of judging criteria for both.
lowtechcyclist
@Scout211:
Why not both? 😁
Josie
@Josie:
Should be Vanity Fair.
VeniceRiley
Epebophile molesters are thick on the ground.
Senator Mark Wayne Gary Wayne (that’s for you Unbreakable Kimmy fans) is day drinking hard enough to be the new SecDef.
Soapdish
It doesn’t really matter since he’s still the POTUS.
Scout211
Productive. Hmmmm.
Sandia Blanca
I’m watching the hearing of the Texas Select Committee on Congressional Redistricting, and it’s been a cavalcade of Democratic Congressional representatives and other leaders pounding on “the felon in the White House” and referring to the redistricting as a distraction from releasing the Epstein files. It’s really quite therapeutic! house.texas.gov/videos/22388
zhena gogolia
@Soapdish: So you’d be happier if your fellow citizens were approving his performance? I wouldn’t.
me
Will he finally do it or TACO? arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/07/tiktok-will-shut-down-soon-if-china-wont-agree-to-trumps-deal-of…
bjacques
@Scout211: so Epstein’s falling out with Trump was because Trump didn’t live up to Epstein’s moral standards. That tracks.
Ramona
@MattF: Thanks for the link! I watched a good part of it but then got bored but I get bored easily. It was funny!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@bjacques:
I believe it’s more accurate to characterize that as “live down” to Epstein’s moral standards.
Hell, “moral standards” should be in quotes.
Baud
@me:
I may be very wrong, but I think Trump needs TikTok more than TikTok needs Trump, and I think everyone involved knows it.
PaulB
Yes, they really, truly did. That’s a lot of what QAnon was about, that Trump was going up against a cabal of “elite” pedophiles, most of them Democrats, and he was going to personally take them down. That was the “storm” that QAnon predicted — the worldwide exposure and arrests that Trump was secretly working on.
These are the same people who insisted that Hillary Clinton had already been arrested and that she was wearing an ankle monitor and was prohibited from travel. Seriously.
It truly is an article of faith with many (most?) of them that Trump is a savior.
gene108
@Scout211:
I didn’t know RFK, Jr. hung out with Epstein.
counterfactual
@Martin: A cult expert and former Mormon equated it to the LDS suddenly declaring that the golden plates that Joseph Smith translated never existed, and for the Mormons to get over it.
Shalimar
@Matt McIrvin: MAGA still doesn’t care about the Trump revelations. They were promised revelations about Bill Clinton and Bill Gates and Tom Hanks and every other rumored member of the evil pedophile ring that controls the Democrat party. Promised this throughout the campaign and then the first months of the new presidency by lots of people including Patel and Bongino.
Then Bondi told them a few weeks ago that they weren’t getting anything. That is still the story for Republican voters. They don’t believe the Trump stuff, even though Trump is terrified that they will. They’re pissed off the Trump administration is now covering up for Clinton. That is why now.
Martin
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Hawley and Cruz aren’t dumb. They’re mendacious and self serving and out of touch, Cruz is also obsequious, but they’re objectively smart people. Shit emotional/social intelligence though. I think Cruz to some degree has been overtaken by events and doesn’t know how to be the Ivy League legal snob in a party of people that throw cans at disabled kids for entertainment. I’d put Mike Lee in that category too who didn’t seem too weird when he was first elected but seems to be losing touch with reality more each day as his sense of Mormon moral superiority violently clashes daily with the reality of what his party really represents now. Romney at least had the good sense to pull the ripcord than try and find his place in it.
Tuberville is just a bag of rocks, and not even pointy rocks. Just really smooth, dull rocks in a plain cloth bag.
Peale
@kindness: The GOP will just move on to Yarvin’s agenda…declaring all the cities medieval free cities masquerading as free enterprise zones without local democracy that are controlled directly by Lords who the President appoints with promises that this won’t create warlords because they will be working on centrally controlled technology to assassinate any lord who gets out of line. Which is how our masters of the universe operate, you see…they’ll definitely be investing lots of that VC money in that particular technology and not at all engaging in illegal activities because that’s how medieval society worked…with nobility always just giving up their power out of a sense of fair play.
I wish I were making this up.
Ramona
@zhena gogolia: For decades now, Vanity Fair has been excellent on long form journalism.
Suzanne
@counterfactual:
That’s an interesting analogy to make, because the LDS Church had to come clean about Joseph Smith being married to multiple women in recent years. They try very, very hard to play the game I refer to as “expectations management”.
FFOTUS should have done some better expectations management, it appears.
Shalimar
@Scout211: Epstein seems like he might have had a problem with friends stealing from or cheating him. Trump has proven time and again that he is fine with creeps.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: It’s not, but Vance with control of the federal government and with SCOTUS backing has a decent shot of making elections irrelevant in a way Trump and his chaos crew may struggle with.
He doesn’t need to be popular if he doesn’t need to win anything.
But this also feels a lot like the money guys are not happy with the tariffs and the deportation crackdowns being bad for business and they’re taking their shot. Vance would moderate significantly on deportation and stop the tariff bullshit pretty much immediately.
Martin
@counterfactual: Oh, that’s a good analogy.
bbleh
Trump doesn’t mind being exposed as a sexual predator. On the other hand, he’s verysensitive to any details about his finances.
Sexual predator (especially of hawt young girls) = Alpha Male.
Financial shenanigans and quid-pro-quo (ie not “self made genius) = Everyday sleazy Beta cuck.
@Suzanne: I share your skepticism, but I still HOPE HOPE HOPE that Rupie and Lachlan are that stupid. If The Leader is deposed, the knives will come out, the bloodletting will begin, and ol’ couch-fker will have so many targets painted on him that a TON of eyeliner won’t cover them up.
Scout211
@gene108: Here is the archive of the Daily Beast story and photo. It describes questions that have been asked and RFKjr’s answers previously.
Excerpt:
Baud
Trump honored the bribe.
zhena gogolia
On the Chuck Mangione front, I didn’t remember this song as being so cool — great musicians!
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@dmsilev: Hawley isn’t dumb either. He’s a culture warrior.
bjacques
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I said what I said
gene108
@Matt McIrvin:
Think about it like a toxic relationship. Everyone on the outside knows their relationship will lead to bad things, accept the two people in the relationship.
Neither of these two people can be reasoned with by outsiders.
Nothing will change until one of them notices the person they trusted to be their partner is not trustworthy.
Republican voters fell in love with Trump. They fell head over heels in love with him. People in love don’t always act rationally.
WTFGhost
I’m in a lot of pain, and not paying much attention to postings and such, but I saw this article:
nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/gabbards-unprecedented-claim-president-led-treasonous-conspir…
Now, one thing I don’t see in it, is a mention that Michael Cohen had said *sure* they were in contact with the Russian government over a Trump Tower Moscow that would have netted Trump 300 million dollars.
Because, see, that changed how *I* see the intel, regarding whether Putin was trying to help Trump or not. Putin was ready to orgasm when he heard the entire US of A could be his, for a measly 300 million dollar bribe, of which he wouldn’t pay a single penny!
And if Trump lost (as expected, in 2016), he would have made for a weaker President Clinton, because Republicans didn’t give a damn about national security in 2016 with respect to Russia. Hell, they defended Junior, Kushner, and whoever else, from (people say) meeting with Russian intel, and lying about it. Who says that? Lots of people say it. I’m just repeating gossip.
I mean, jeezum jiminy cricket, how could anyone trust any Republican over national security, after they were willing to let that horrorshow go?
(Sorry – some of my droogs have gone all horrorshow, and keep repeating horrorshow, so it stuck.)
Seriously: if you didn’t care if Junior and Kushner were meeting with Russian agents in 2016, you’d probably crib an excuse note for a violent attempt to overthrow the government! I’m not wrong here, am I
ETA: “Droog” and “horrorshow” are from “A Clockwork Orange”. Droog = “Friend” in Russian. (Tovarisch = “comrade,” which I think is supposed to be a bit closer.) I never thought just how apropos it would seem this many years later, to have that thought about a President with Russian ties.
Splitting Image
@PaulB:
Not just a savior. Trump is THE Savior. The hippie from Nazareth has been demoted to a prophet who paved the way for Him.
Ramona
@bjacques: Trump, the crook which Epstein always knew him to be, pulled a crooked one on Epstein when he outbid on a Palm Beach property Epstein had bid on after Epstein showed Trump the property asking for advice relying on Trump’s contracting experience. Epstein knew that Trump did not have the $40M which exceeded Epstein’s $36M and surmised that Trump’s money had been fronted by the Russian mob in a money laundering scheme. This was an assumption which seemed to be verified when Trump sold the property for $90M just a couple of years later to a Russian oligarch.
I’ve heard Michael Wolff talk about this incident as relayed to him by Epstein in several interviews available on YouTube.
Martin
@Peale: I don’t think it will. I think some will try, but contra others, I don’t see a unifying political philosophy in the GOP right now. It used to have them, the neocons vs the free marketers vs the religious right. Even the religious right is pretty all over the place and the first two are dead. It really is Trump surrounded by a bunch of opportunistic cranks who are all pulling in their own direction and often against each other.
I think the white nationalism stuff will be a common theme, but I don’t think there’s an appetite to be under some techbro feudal system. I think a lot of the overreach under the current administration is due to it not having a unifying philosophy and therefore it’s just people doing as much damage as possible in the narrow window they have. I think if Vance took over it’d be constant infighting and power brokering with a guy at the top who has no ability to manage it and no moral compass. Trump at least has the power of his personality to keep things together. Vance is the opposite of Trump on that front.
Nettoyeur
@Matt McIrvin: I think Murdoch and his brother oligarchs have decided that Trump has served his purpose and is surplus to requirements. Tax cuts good tariffs not so much. And he’s sliding into dementia..might have a tanttum and start a war. Bad for business.
Miss Bianca
@kindness: cachet
otherwise, right on
piratedan
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I suspect that Hawley and Cruz are simply fine actors, puttin’ on the shine for the rubes. Without any kind of moral or ethical code other than doing whatever it takes to be and stay elected.
As for rank fucking idiocy, I think you have to consider Mullin and Tuberville to be exemplary examples of politicians that most resemble the voters that put them in office. In order to not come across as sexist, I believe Ms. Blackburn and Ms. Hyde-Smith and Ms. Lummis and Mr Lee are in that “tier” that follows.
Many of the GOP Senators from the midwest and great plains are smart enough to not have much of a public presence, so it’s hard to tell just who they are unless they end up on a milk carton as “missing”. No one ever seems to apply any pressure to these guys, as they all look like car dealership owners, white, unassuming and no redeeming qualities.
Peale
@Splitting Image: Yep. We are looking at the rise of a 4th sect of Christianity. Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal and now…something where either there is a quadune God or the Holy Sprit replaced by Trump.
Kosh III
@Professor Bigfoot:How the HELL did this undeniably mediocre MF manage to become a United States Senator
Look at Tommy Tuberville. smh
Geoduck
Re: South Park. Is it too much to hope that the episode makes the Shiatgibbon so mad he still torpedoes the merger after all this?
Baud
@Geoduck:
Merger just got approved.
Martin
@Ramona: Worth noting, Epstein would have seen that deal as the money laundering operation that it was. Again, Epstein was the financial manager for the arms middleman in Iran/Contra – he would have been able to see a money laundering transaction a mile away.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@zhena gogolia: one more from Chuck Mangione: 🎶 Land of Make Believe
Ramona
@WTFGhost: You are not wrong. Remember the 4th of July trip to Moscow by GOP Senators and Rep?
I’m sorry you are in pain. I hope the drugs stabilize soon.
TerryC
@WTFGhost: I am sorry for your
pain and hope you can alleviate it, WTFGhost. I truly enjoy your posts.
TerryC
@Martin: I think Vance doesn’t live 60 days past the beginning of his presidency. Brown wife and kids; serious Christians waiting in the background like the speaker.
tobie
@Martin:
I’ve been harping on this for some time. The GOP sees itself as the party of small biz. Even a lot of their big donors are S-corps or sole proprietorships (Hobby Lobby, Uline, etc.). I’m still chewing on what this trend means.
Miss Bianca
@gene108:
Does it surprise you?
Subcommandante Yakbreath
@zhena gogolia: Another great gone. RIP, Chuck, from a former tuba player to the master of the flugelhorn.
WTFGhost
@Splitting Image: Here’s the scary thing. IIRC, the Antichrist comes first, to lead the faithful astray – *then* Jesus comes back, and brings about a time of peace and justice. We’ll “beat our swords into plowshares, and our spears into pruning hooks” and undoubtedly will start making bricks and beams for baby hospitals, just like Tony Stark rehearsed, every night in front of the mirror. (Did he really? And did she report catching him in that lie? The pubic I mean public want to know!)
And, I mean, Jesus even said “look to their fruits” to judge a false prophet. Are they feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, nurturing the sick, tending to the imprisoned? Seriously, anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-trans, is all they have, and Jesus didn’t mention any of that shit – there was even John the apostle, the apostle Jesus “loved,” which might have been in the Biblical sense, if you know what I mean, and if you don’t, ask your parents.
These people should realize they’re all Hellbound, by the rules of their own faith.
I don’t believe in the traditional hell. I mean, I realized, when researching WTF a “unitarian” was, that I embraced the Universalist “heresy,” I can’t believe God would torture anyone for *eternity*. But right now, I imagine it could be like “here’s an entire brain dump of everything WTFGhost realizes is stone-cold stupid about your devotion to trump, and how it completely violates every Biblical principle you’ve ever claimed to value! Once you’re done listening, and understanding all this, then your punishment is over. Oh, yeah: ‘Ghost used to teach math, and there will be a final exam….”.
What? I’m a really good tutor, otherwise I wouldn’t propose something so cruel as expecting someone to understand me, just, to understand the rules I laid out.
tobie
@zhena gogolia:
It’s no fun being a Cassandra. I wish Vanity Fair didn’t make you so claivoyant. What a pain.
mrmoshpotato
@eclare: Great movie.
VeniceRiley
I don’t think it’s much deeper than a male voter fantasy of “Hot teens, Private jets, golf courses I own, hotels, and tacky bling.” for a vast number of his voters.
mrmoshpotato
Sooooo….. do I understand this correctly – Now-Dead Pedophile Was OK With Racist Shitstain Buddy Also Being A Pedophile But Not OK With Racist Shitstain Being A Crook
Is that an accurate headline?
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
Now Dead pedophile was personally at risk from Trump being a crook.
mrmoshpotato
@VeniceRiley: Let’s not forget “He hates black and brown people and liberals just like I do!”
Remember that a lot of Trump trash voted for the first time in 2016 (regardless of age) because “he says what I’m thinking!”
Ramona
@Martin: I agree. And I would add that the manner in which Vance replaces Trump as POTUS (a replacement in the short term as opposed to winning in 2028) greatly affects how a Vance administration shakes out.
There are three ways Vance replaces Trump now:
1. Trump dies
2. Vance gets enough of Trump’s crony Cabinet to join him in exercising the 25th Amendment (unlikely, but who knows because Thiel money can buy a lot of them) and Congress goes along with it.
3. House impeaches Trump and Senate convicts.
I doubt Trump resigns.
Trump dying is the best scenario for Vance. Republicans will demand we all respect the grieving and Vance will have some time to strengthen his control over Trump’s cabinet. We might try to egg on the MAGA base by speculating that Trump was killed by the Deep State…
The success of the 25th Amendment would require many in the Cabinet and the House to be bribed and MAGA would HATE Vance.
Impeachment and conviction is very unlikely but if Trump were to ousted by this route it would set a precedent that makes Vance vulnerable to as well.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Oh, self-preservation – not having some moral line in the sand.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
You know what waves do to sand.
zhena gogolia
@Subcommandante Yakbreath: Thanks. Nice antidote to Fuckhead.
Ohio Mom
@piratedan: Lol, Ohio’s Senator Moreno *was* a car dealership owner — I recall hearing he turned ownership over to a relative.
He had lots of Republican money backing him in his successful campaign for Sherrod Brown’s seat. He’s a slimey idiot.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I’ve been enjoying Trump squirming over the Epstein stuff. The only cloud in the otherwise clear blue sky is that it’s further proof that nothing becomes this kind of long running story unless MAGA cares about it. I find that situation infuriating. All the performative cruelty, bullying, shakedowns for bribes, accusations of treason, senior dementia moments. It’s all in the news for the day and then disappears because MAGA don’t care. So I’m glad Trump finally pissed off his base in an own goal of a political firestorm but I really wish we could change this dynamic. Having MAGA nut jobs control the news cycle sucks.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Hunter Biden is rubbing off on you.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I could teach Hunter Biden a thang or two.
mrmoshpotato
@japa21: Don’t you dare call it Trumpism. -bluegal
zhena gogolia
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Yeah.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I bet!
Librettist
Oklahoma is, in fact, sending their best.
Ramona
@Martin: Yes he would and also Trump would have been whining to him about how skint he (Trump) is. But also Epstein’s bid might have been part of the same money laundering scheme as well and the more charming and extroverted Trump might have just schmoozed it from under Epstein once Epstein naively disclosed the property to Trump.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Flatten it.
Ben Cisco
@Martin:
Can confirm. My Idiot Senator (as opposed to the other one, Senator Stepford Tradwife).
Bill Arnold
@Peale:
Father, son Christ Jesus, anti-Christ Trump, Holy Spirit.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Shalimar: I think another aspect, maybe, is they really are pissed about a lot of what he’s doing because they may not be willing to admit it yet, at least not publicly, but he’s making their lives harder. They may be starting to get restless about that. The Epstein stuff is like a marriage with real problems but the blowout fight and breakup happens when the husband forgets to pick up the dry cleaning on the way home. It’s the stupid little thing that’s the final straw.
There’s also the “cult leader revealed as a fraud” angle too – that’s definitely part of the issue and really why this shouldn’t be viewed as a trivial side issue. Cults often don’t break up for logical reasons. He’s got a cult of personality going and cracking it up is vital for the good of the nation so whatever gets that done is definitely worthy of amplification.
Another Scott
@Ramona:
Maybe one more?
#4 – Trump flees the country for Dubai, UAE to “oversee construction” of his big beautiful tower and suchlike, and never comes back.
“There’s nothing in the Constitution that says the US President has to live in the United States.” – Jonathan Turley, probably.
Roberts will say that nobody has standing to challenge his actions in court, and if anyone does (amazingly) have standing, he’ll bring out the “novel question” verbiage and slow walk it sending it down to trial courts a few times before actually deciding in an unsigned shadow docket release.
Grr…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Anyway
Hatred of liberals, Ds and everything they stand for.
I’ll believe that GQP is no longer the party of big business when Pichai, Cooke, Bezos, Musk etc attend a “prayer” service for an incoming Dem POTUS.
Ohio Mom
@Peale: I read that NYT article on Yarvin (or was it an interview?) and to me, he sounded like someone with a serious, chronic mental illness who was off his meds. Or never went on them.
When he imagines cities being taken over by lords, or whatever, does he take onto account that most cities are solidly Blue and will be less than enthusiastic about giving up self rule?
And in thinking about my city, Cincinnati, I am also assuming that the big money men who pull way too many strings to have their visions for the city realized like the current system too much to give their power up to Yarvin’s henchman.
(That the big money men have too loud a voice is a result of the Right-wing effort to put term limits on City Council. When Council throws roadblocks in front of the big moneymen’s plans, all the big money men have to do is wait out the obstinant Council members’ terms. Council had a lot more weight to push back with when they could — and were — elected again and again, indefinitely.)
Shalimar
Tesla Stock Dropped 8%. The Earnings Call Lacked Meat.
My favorite quote: “Musk has big plans to expand the robo-taxi business Tesla launched in Austin, Texas, in June. He believes Tesla’s service can cover half the U.S. population by the end of the year, pending regulatory approvals. That prediction could prove aggressive.”
Yeah. Aggressive. Musk is just outright bullshitting, as he does all the time. It is not possible to go from providing rides for a few thousand people to providing rides for 170 million people in 5 months. Or 5 years. It’s total nonsense.
Bill Arnold
@Ramona:
Or by … JD Vance.
Shalimar
@Bill Arnold: “We regretfully announce that Vice President Vance mistook President Trump for a fluffy sectional and fucked him to death.”
Bupalos
This isn’t a “we shouldn’t talk about Epstein” take, it really is the biggest thing happening now and will likely remain the biggest thing happening for the next 6 months. But…
Dems can barely affect it, positively or negatively. What it’s going to mean in the end is just a kind of scrambling of politics. Trump is going to lose his hold on a slice of the electorate that is voting for outsider change. Dems really need to get to work on whatever planks we can nail in that can help us collect as many of those folks as possible. Trump is going to decline, but that doesn’t mean Dems are going to rise. It means some of his 2024 voters are going to be up for grabs. From polling, it looks especially like he’s cratering spectacularly with the youngish voters that put him over the top in 2024. Other entrepreneurial politicians on the right are going to compete for these people as well.
evodevo
@mrmoshpotato: Yes, this. I heard this shit from at least two co-workers and an acquaintance. They probably still believe it. AND “He tells it like it is!”
JetsamPool
Late to the thread, so I won’t reply individually to all the good points everyone makes.
I still contend that financial and health details are the only secret our mad king cares about. I am open to persuasion that they are more or less relevant to the Epstein files.
Some questions that occurred to me while reading all the coverage: Why was he flogging the Epstein files if he knew they could incriminate him and there would be few or any democrats in legal jeopardy? This has been answered upthread, but I’m wondering if his campaign thought it would be easy to doctor the documents, and when they found out it would be harder than expected, they tried to back off.
Did he think he could use the documents for blackmail himself? Emptywheel had a discussion that Epstein would never be so crass as to explicitly threaten anyone, it was all implicit. FFOTUS would absolutely be so crass, given the opportunity.
As for the religious aspect of the cult, Republicans have been using religious themes with the base since at least the time of Reagan (when I first noticed this trend), and they may well succeed in creating a new religion if their coalition doesn’t implode.
lowtechcyclist
@Shalimar:
It’s still at $305 per share. Floating on a cushion of helium, its stock price is.
MagdaInBlack
@WTFGhost: I said recently that if I believed in a participatory god, I would suggest this god sent trump to see just how real some folks “Christian Values” really were.
And the answer is: Not very.
Professor Bigfoot
Fair point.
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud:
True, but it’s not like Trump doesn’t have a reputation for reneging on deals.
Obviously, reversing an FCC decision is more complicated than screwing over a painting contractor in Atlantic City, but if Trump wants to make it happen, I suspect he’ll make it happen.
Jackie
@TerryC: Vance gets to nominate a VP. I don’t think it’ll be Johnson, though who knows.
Ramona
@Another Scott: Yesss!!! Good one!
Ramona
@Anyway: Unifying as it may be, their scapegoating does not constitute a political philosophy. Although, I have to admit I could not offer you a definition of “political philosophy”. Hatred of liberals and minority groups is not something that could form the basis of governing.
Martin
@Ramona: Heh. Two guys trying to launder money through West Palm Beach real estate having a falling out because one them has more money to launder than the other does seem a little too on the nose, but it might well be accurate.
I seriously wonder how much the US economy would be left if we got rid of all the fraud.
Bill Arnold
@lowtechcyclist:
TSLA price to sales ratio is a little less than 12.
Average for the auto industry is (less than) 1/10 th that, 11.18 this month
Meme stock.
Not as bad as Trump Media, though.
Ramona
@Bill Arnold: Better to use their vocabulary and avoid slandering or libeling an actual individual. To say nothing of the difficulty of coming up with credible details on how the individual you named did it. This doesn’t prevent us from casting suspicion on various statements Vance makes and asking what did he know when and so on.
Ramona
@Shalimar: Ahahahhahah!
Martin
@Bupalos: Dems job is to keep the fire burning, and that’s about it. I don’t think it puts that many voters up for grabs that previously weren’t up for grabs. I do think a chunk of his base just walk away from politics and a chunk of reliable R voters turn into non-voters which is what they were before Trump showed up. I think that’s the greater benefit. That was a group that pollsters really had trouble modeling for, which is why Trump pretty reliably over-performed the polls.
sab
@Bill Arnold: He did kill a Pope.
Martin
@sab: Eh, who hasn’t?
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Bupalos: AOC asked those who voted both for her & for Trump to explain their vote. Those people definitely do exist.
Ramona
@sab: True!
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
I’m not sure I can imagine a better way to describe these elitist bozos walking the tightrope of defrauding their party of viscous, frothing no-nothings.
Perfection!
Bill Arnold
@sab:
Sure, but that was an emissary of the antichrist (or at least a miraculously healed head (avatar) of the Beast), or of an entity cosplaying the same.
ETA: or maybe not? Maybe “he”‘s an ambitious third party?
chemiclord
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
Cool. Now if they wouldn’t fall back asleep so damn quickly, that would be nice for a change.
catclub
Yeah, $1.5B in transfers to Epstein. Whose names are on the other end?
Ramona
Zactly!!!
chemiclord
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: And I expect their reasons were either A) completely incoherent, B) completely contradictory, or C) Both.
Martin
@chemiclord: No, their answers made sense. I’m not saying they were particularly wise answers, but they were coherent and consistent. The people I saw interviewed had more or less the same argument – that their current financial circumstance was fairly untenable, and that AOC and Trump were both proposing sweeping changes to the economy. Trumps economic pledges looked a lot more like Democratic proposals than you might realize – capping credit card interest at 10%, tax credit for family care providers, tax deductible car interest, no tax on tips. I think some of those are terrible precedents to set, but I don’t fault them for looking at those ideas in the context of their job as a bartender with a bunch of credit card debt and a parent at home they care for and seeing a much more direct benefit from Trumps policy ideas than Harris’. I would fault them for believing those things would happen, but they didn’t see relief coming from Harris’ proposals even if they were more likely to happen. And some of these people probably also voted for Mamdani for the exact same reason.
As for the other policies, they probably didn’t care. If you are on the verge of becoming homeless the only thing you care about is not being homeless. You usually don’t have the space to care about Gaza or immigrants and so on.
chemiclord
@Martin: No, then they were completely incoherent. They basically forgot everything that happened from 2016-2020. That’s not sound thinking, that’s an infantile temper tantrum wrapped in bullshit reasoning.
If you voted for AOC and Trump, your reasoning inherently made no sense whatsoever. Like, those two votes immediately invalidate any reasoning you could attempt. The mental contortions you’d have to do to convince yourself that after already seeing four years of a Trump presidency that this time he’d actually do good for the little man… nah, bro. I ain’t buying it, and neither should you.
If you were an AOC/Trump voter you are either lying about your votes, or you’re an imbecile. Those are the only options.
hotshoe
@eclare:
The Man Who Knew Too Much is also on Netflix until Jul 31.
I figured it was a classic and I tried to make allowances for for it being outdated and meandering.
But it’s just plain boring when it’s not outright awful.
Funny that Rear Window — same decade, same director, same lead actor — turned out to be an order of magnitude better.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Scout211: All that says is that Epstein realized tRump would scr3w anybody in business, and tRump discovered Epstein didn’t perv on Ivanka like he did.
Paul in KY
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I would also go with the fired Auburn coach.