More than 100,000 federal workers are going to formally resign tomorrow, the largest such mass event in US history.
This is part of a Trump program to dramatically gut the federal workforce.
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025…— More Perfect Union (@moreperfectunion.bsky.social) September 29, 2025 at 11:38 AM
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Schumer after his meeting with Trump: "We have very large differences on healthcare and on their ability to undo whatever budget we agree to through rescissions and through impoundment."
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) September 29, 2025 at 4:39 PM
===
Republicans are on vacation, democrats are here working seems like an important message
— @NewsJennifer (Jennifer Schulze) (@newsjennifer.bsky.social) September 29, 2025 at 9:44 PM
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If there’s one thing that is fairly well creased into American politics, it’s that the Democrats are the people who want the government open and working.
— Clean Observer (@hammbear2024.bsky.social) September 29, 2025 at 10:14 PM
Recap, per the Washington Post [gift link]: “Government shutdown set to begin overnight as Congress hits impasse”
www.cnn.com/2025/09/29/p… I saw this earlier and found it remarkable that this is the *first* time the president will meet with Schumer since inauguration, and he has never *ever* met with Jeffries
— geoff (@kookaburrasakura.co.nz) September 29, 2025 at 12:12 PM
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bro we are so cooked
— April Glick Pulito (@aprilglick.bsky.social) September 29, 2025 at 4:54 PM
This is arguably the entire reason why the shutdown could happen and Trump is unaware of this. This speaks either to diminished mental capacity or utter isolation from reality. Seems like important news. Might even want to stick this above the fold!
we don’t have to pick one, plenty of evidence that it’s both
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachine.com) September 29, 2025 at 5:24 PM
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…. Does he think this is a winning argument for him?
— Sky Marchini (@sky.skymarchini.net) September 29, 2025 at 9:18 PM
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None of them can keep from smirking — they’re so happy that vulnerable people will suffer!
Leavitt: "They want food assistance programs for women and children and impoverished communities to continue going out the door. All of that will come to an end if Democrats vote against this CR that Republicans are proposing."
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) September 29, 2025 at 8:44 AM
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Hassett: "If money is not appropriated for a position, they then have the authority to eliminate the position. It's very intuitive. And that's an enormous amount of leverage over the Democrats … if they shut it down, then they might not like the consequences."
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) September 29, 2025 at 4:35 PM
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Ironically, Trump doing that little video with Schumer and Jeffries blows up the entire strategy Thune, Vance and Johnson had, which is to frame Democrats as being unreasonable and unwilling to negotiate.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/a…— Eric Michael Garcia (@ericmgarcia.bsky.social) September 29, 2025 at 10:45 PM
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An actual journalist who cared about the country would write a story about how Republicans leaving town without a spending bill is the height of irresponsibility and completely disrespects the public and their duty to us as citizens
And instead you cover it as a game https://t.co/8D8Sn49DEY
— The okayest poster there is (@ok_post_guy) September 30, 2025
On The Road – BigJimSlade – Alps 2025 – Milan, Saas-Fee, Chamonix and Courmayeur, part 5
Baud
It is a game to the media. Biden didn’t really play games, so he had to go.
dc
The Assholes have control of Congress and the White House. Why do they need even on Democratic vote? They don’t! Why does no one report this loudly?
MagdaInBlack
@dc: They want Democrats to submit.
Baud
Elections have consequences.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: And boy howdy, don’t they. jfc
The Thin Black Duke
@dc: You know why.
BretH
In other news, the US economy is propped up by insane spending on AI. It’s a long but sobering read from Ed Zitron:
wheresyoured.at/the-case-against-generative-ai/
JoyceH
If Republicans wanted to blame Democrats for a shutdown, maybe they shouldn’t have locked the House and sent their members home so they couldn’t vote for a CR if they wanted to.
Shalimar
Same reason Putin has never met Zelenskyy. Racists don’t negotiate with inferiors.
Betty Cracker
Did y’all see the truly fucking bonkers AI slop vid Trump posted depicting “Schumer” saying insane shit about paying migrants to vote for Dems and “Jeffries” wearing a sombrero and fake mustache? (Bluesky link) I think that’s what Garcia is referring to above. Haven’t seen any msm reporting on it. It’s normal now.
Baud
While people like to point out that Trump garnered more non-white votes, whether due to the economy or the misogyny, or both, I don’t see how you escape the reality that the reason that Trump and the Republican Congress act they way they do is because they’re backed by a white base that prioritizes total war against liberals and liberal values over all other things.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, but some libs say LatinX.
Shalimar
@Baud: My cousin is almost 50 and has chronic medical conditions that require 30+ pills per day. Her husband has been diagnosed with a condition that 10 years ago would have been fatal within 2 years and even now will require experimental treatments to survive. They will both most likely be dead within 5 years because we elected Trump instead of Harris. They’re still obliviously very pro-Trump (and pro-Musk, which also makes no sense). I give up on white people. They suck.
Baud
@Shalimar:
As self-eugenicists, they need to be pro-RFK Jr. too.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Is there really widespread denial about that? I haven’t seen much of that, at least not here. What I have seen is people attempting to figure out why Trump/Repubs increased their share of non-white votes while running on a more overtly racist and fascist platform. It’s a legit line of inquiry, IMO, if national Dems want to avoid Florida’s fate.
Professor Bigfoot
Easy. Just make sure everyone knows it’s the fault of those darkies, one way or another, and that whiteness has NOTHING to do with it.
Anne Laurie
@Betty Cracker: That sh*t was designed to be hate-posted widely — which is why I refused to include it in this post!
Don’t blame you for bringing it up, but I didn’t want to see that on the front page here. Not gonna give the monsters who designed it the satisfaction. My standards aren’t high, but I have them.
Professor Bigfoot
@Betty Cracker: I get that OFTEN from accounts that only rarely pop up– but they’re INSISTENT that the reason Trump won is because more Black men voted for him this time.
NEVERMIND that a percentage point or two from ANYONE ELSE doesn’t come close to what the nearly 2/3 of white men voted for, but hey. it’s gotta be the darkies’ fault.
Gotta be.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know about “widespread.” But I think there’s a some denial about the core source of our problems, which could be one reason why more non-whites are frustrated with the Democratic Party.
Baud
@Anne Laurie:
The BJ motto.
iKropoclast
@Anne Laurie: I’m currently recalling the South Park season opener which suggested that everything is getting so racist and assholish, that their most outright racist asshole character doesn’t know what to do with himself anymore. He lost his sense of identity because his hate is now just typical and doesn’t make him edgy or whatever.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: I’m much less “frustrated” with the Democratic Party than I am with all the white people who can ONLY bitch moan and complain about the Black and Jewish Democrats elected to leadership by their caucuses.
White people voted Dems out of power, and white people bitch that Dems “aren’t doing enough.”
It’s bloody tiresome.
MagdaInBlack
@Betty Cracker: Personal view is that it’s in part where folks got their information. Spanish language radio, for one, is heavily pro-trump. So much so that my Chicago progressive radio station is working on putting together a Spanish speaking program 3 nights a week, to try to counter some of it. It’s something at least. They also regularly remind us just how much of the “airwaves” are conservative owned and pro-trump.
Shalimar
@Baud: She was a nurse before her conditions got too severe to keep working, but I am pretty sure she was anti-vax-curious during Covid so probably pro-RFKjr too. I try not to talk to either of them.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
After Obama beat McCain and Romney, I think a lot of the Republican base correctly, albeit subconsciously, realized that they needed to completely give themselves over to clownish fascism to prevail over libs.
A racist government in theory doesn’t have to be an incompetent embarrassment. In practice, it has to be because, at least for now, it’s still verboten for them to affirmatively state that white identity is their governing principle.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
iKropoclast
DEI has entered the chat.
These euphemisms they use to elide their racism aren’t convincing unless you’re already predisposed to believe anything short of klan hoods and lynch mobs isn’t racism.
Princess
I have no idea how Democrats should handle this and I really distrust people who say they do.
Baud
@iKropoclast:
Not convincing to us.
They still have to lie to normies, the media, and themselves.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
I think they have to keep offering to negotiate and pointing out the GOP is in controlof all 3 branches of government, while refusing to vote for it. At first, as per usual, the press will bash Democrats. After a while, even GOP voters will get frustrated about why the Republicans aren’t doing anything to fix this. I don’t think the Trumpers will be able to be anything but gleeful over a shutdown. I don’t think that will go over well. No matter what, though, its going to suck. There’s no good options here.
Professor Bigfoot
There’s a LOT of lying to themselves over in the Party of the White Man and their adherents.
iKropoclast
Depends, if someone claims to be confident in the outcome of some course of action, I’d certainly doubt that. If they’re confidently claiming a certain course of action is better on some principle, well, you have the principle to judge it against to see if it holds. And to decide whether that is the right principle to base a final decision on.
For example, should they vote for a measure that gives them nothing, lacks sufficient Republican support to pass, and has cruel priorities? A shutdown could hurt still more worthwhile programs. Principle might say protect what you can even as they savage everything else. But principle might also point it’s unwise to make agreements with people who don’t honor them.
So, I can reasonably see someone reasonably come to either conclusion about the CR. Still, there is no reasonable way to predict how either vote/result may pan out.
So Democrats are going to have to leave their comfort zone, drop the pro/con ledgers and just make a principled stand on instinct.
Heaven help us.
mrmoshpotato
Can someone with a BlueSky account post what GOLIKEHELLMACHINE is replying to?
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: There absolutely is denial. There are two reasons people are innumerate and don’t understand how percentages work, and what polls mean, They are also in denial about their white privilege and fellow citizens’ racism.
I did a back of the envelope calculation which showed that 70% of Trump’s vote total came from white voters both men and women
Pointing out that ww have voted R every presidential election except one since 1964 feels like a personal attack to many on this blog
So the answer to your question is no, there is no universal acceptance even here on the main reason we lost.
Princess
@BretH: my son who knows stuff expects a big correction on ai sometime in the next two years. FWIW. Because of the funding and the way the ai companies are moving money around to stay afloat.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
Which is a reply to this.
Which has an image of a Schumer quote, which is in the OP.
Betty
@Betty Cracker: Lawrence O’Donnell opened his show with it. Flat out stated it is evidence of Trump’s mental decline and had Jeffries on to discuss the situation. The state of Trump’s mental health is becoming an unavoidable subject. The powers that be will put it off as long as they can, but it is too obvious and getting worse.
iKropoclast
@Betty Cracker: What I have seen is people attempting to figure out why Trump/Repubs increased their share of non-white votes while running on a more overtly racist and fascist platform.
Black Trump supporters in my life come in two flavors. The first just seems to root for the out-party, whoever they are at the time. The other is just happy they got a 600 check that one time and was too young to remember that W did the same thing. Obama and Biden did too, but they didn’t send out a fancy separate check with their name signed.
Baud
@Princess:
The market will probably crash just in time for the Dems to have to pick up the pieces again and get blamed for not doing a good enough job again.
iKropoclast
@Betty: Trump does not need to be in decline to post racist schlock. That is consistent with his baseline since time immemorial.
iKropoclast
I’m sure Gavin Newsom will know the exact half-measures to take to produce maximum frustration.
gene108
Johnson and Leavitt talking about how not passing the CR will hurt healthcare is effective messaging. It is intended to keep Republican voters inline, and give them a one sentence rebuttal to counter arguments talking about how unreasonable Republicans are regarding extending healthcare benefits.
Being soulless shameless lying hypocrites willing to say anything seems to be the secret sauce in how right-wing propaganda is so effective.
iKropoclast
Republicans would be wise to give Democrats everything they want on a CR, a veritable wishlist. After all, Trumpies are just going to do what they want anyway.
Betty Cracker
@Anne Laurie: I totally understand why you didn’t post it, but it’s a devilishly fine line to walk for the media, IMO. On one hand, we don’t want them to fall into malicious actors’ trap by distributing a video Trump & Co. want to be widely seen.
On the other, it’s genuinely notable that the crackpot POTUS is platforming AI-generated lies, and arguably ignoring that he has done so is a form of sane-washing.
News reports (as opposed to blog posts) should at least describe it and point out that it’s bullshit, IMO. So far, I haven’t seen any doing so, but TBF, I haven’t read a ton of news yet today
@Betty: That’s good news. Thanks!
Baud
@gene108:
No, what makes it effective is that their audience wants to remain in the fold and will grasp at anything to make that a viable choice.
iKropoclast
I blame obscure leftists on Twitter…
I would actually say there’s full acceptance here that racism and sexism at least partially explain the election result. Most seem to think that the primary reason; which I do, while allowing for Democrats’ pageant of no confidence in the administration last year to have been nearly as impactful. Others who don’t think it was the main thing still seem to acknowledge it was a factor.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: But we have to focus our analysis only on how 28% of the non-white citizens voted to make the white people on our side feel better.
Matt McIrvin
“Hand over your wallet or die” usually is a winning argument, but not if you’re obviously going to kill the victim anyway.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
I would like to see Dems put this in moral terms, to say the GOP priorities are immoral and they can’t vote for it in good conscience. That’s an argument that is hard to counter and makes them have to explain why kicking people off their Healthcare isn’t immoral. We ARE the more ethical and moral party. We should say that and own that. We don’t do enough speaking about our values and how they drive policy.
lowtechcyclist
@iKropoclast:
Joe Biden did a tremendously effective job of fixing the mess that T45 had left him, and he still was running behind Trump before he pulled out. The things he didn’t fix were the things nobody could fix (housing shortage, inflation caused by pandemic-caused supply chain problems) and he got hammered over them.
Even before the more blatant media takeovers by right-wing billionaires, we had a media that was wired for Republicans. Don’t know how we bell that cat.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Ah, I see it now. Brain didn’t make that connection at this hour.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I think y’all are both right. My older wingnut relatives live in the Fox News bubble by choice because they enjoy the confirmation bias, so that’s on them, but the admin and its propagandists lie to their audience constantly to keep them in the fold. It works because of both things.
Bupalos
@schrodingers_cat: whities made up over 77% of Trump voters. They made up over 65% of Harris voters, and 71% of voters overall.
iKropoclast
Do we, though? They might ask. Fuck ’em.
If white’s fragile, maybe it should stretch more.
geg6
@Professor Bigfoot:
Love it. Any criticism of Democratic leadership makes me a bigot. Fuck you.
p.a.
Beyond my paygrade to decide this, but without a redistributive downwards economic policy, i.e. Bidenomics as at least step 1, can we say 21st Century American capitalism is a flop relying on successive waves of bubbles giving the mirage of functioning economy? Feature, not bug, that the waves, while hurting 90+% during the *pop*, end up redistributing wealth up.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Shalimar: You can’t save people from themselves.
On another topic, re Hesgeth and the generals today: My theory is they’re going to be asked to pledge loyalty to Trump. Trump will be there. He’ll speak for at least an hour because that’s the dictator way
Baud
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Agree. But maybe that’s because we can’t reach consensus on our values or our policy.
schrodingers_cat
@Bupalos: You may be right about the exact numbers. I didn’t cross reference them for this comment. But the point I made stands irrespective of the exact numbers.
Bupalos
@schrodingers_cat: It’s really not about feelings and blame and all the silliness that the hyper-identity folks right and left wallow in. It’s about trying to understand how and why politics in the United States and worldwide is rapidly changing. All of the “nothing to see here, just the same old” has really never been more wrong. Post-truth right wing populist authoritarianism is gaining steam with surprising constituencies.
schrodingers_cat
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes that’s my guess as well.
Bupalos
@schrodingers_cat: The point has pretty much never been less true in the last several decades, but is in fact still true.
Baud
@p.a.:
All right wing economic policy consists of boom and busy cycles. That’s what we had in this country until the New Deal. Left of center economic policy emphasizes boring, steady long term growth.
Anything can be taken too far, including left of center economic policy. But I think it’s a better model for those of us who care about real people rather than just numbers on a spreadsheet.
iKropoclast
He did. Some policies coming out of his time performed amazingly well. They briefly eliminated measurable childhood poverty. The infrastructure money could have both provided vast amounts of work for Americans and left our nation a more attractive place to do business if Trump didn’t just terminate all programs against his ideology.
Regrettably, the media didn’t have much to say on policy coming out of Washington or much perspective to provide on the state of our economy.
But my criticism was specific to Gavin Newsom, the detestable little oil slick.
schrodingers_cat
@Bupalos: Whatever you say. This is a white supremacist government that got there using the votes of solid majority of white people.
Bupalos
@geg6: PB has a particular hammer, and thus you must be a nail. Don’t take it personally.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Biden bet on Keynes. But people were addicted to low prices more than they wanted jobs. Or at least that’s what our R lapdog media focused on.
From Snooze hour to NYT.
lowtechcyclist
@iKropoclast:
There are limits to doing what they want. They have to actually pass legislation in order to change the tax code. And it’s changes to the tax code that are making health insurance premiums go way up – the Biden tax credits are expiring, since the BBB didn’t extend them. Extending them is what Schumer and Jeffries want included in the bill that funds the government past midnight tonight. (Which ain’t gonna happen tonight because Squeaker Johnson decided the House would stay on recess for another week.)
Now supposing the GOP knuckles under and passes that extension, I suppose Trump could order the IRS to not honor that tax credit, but the level of mess that would create would be astounding even compared with what Trump’s done so far. And besides, that’s a bit too in-the-weeds for his failing brain that’s never been that great on details like that to begin with.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Savvy libs on Black Republicans: They’re naturally conservative.
Savvy libs on white working class Republicans: The Democrats failed them.
iKropoclast
Low prices just weren’t going to happen. Business owners have dollars to make.
Bupalos
@schrodingers_cat: a solid majority of Harris votes came from white people as well. And the margin between the parties among whities hasn’t been this narrow in decades.
oldgold
At this time, the Democrats should take the 7 week CR
Betty Cracker
@MagdaInBlack: The bad news on the “where they get their information” front is that right-wing oligarchs are quickly consolidating control of those platforms, both traditional and digital media properties and communication channels — even video games after Kushner brokered the EA deal.
Baud
@oldgold:
Too late for that. The majority of libs wanted a fight. Dems are responding.
iKropoclast
Okay, okay, I can appreciate that.
And still, I put nothing past Trump.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
When it comes to political consultants, i don’t think they are wrong to use focus groups and data to determine where voters are at and what the opportunities are. Where they go wrong is centering campaigns around that. I believe people want leaders with clear values, who can state not just what they are going to try to do, but why it’s the right thing to do. We should be talking more about our moral values; about conscience, duty, service, etc. We shouldn’t be afraid to call them out as immoral. They are. Confront them directly about the fact the only thing they care about is the morality of homosexuality, abortion, and Trans people. That’s it. Corruption, greed, Trump’s obvious infidelity, torture, gun violence, etc are all deeply immoral and they do not care. In fact, they embrace the worst in humanity. This is our strength and their weakness.
iKropoclast
Well, ::checks watch::, timely.
Baud
@iKropoclast:
I’m confident all the savvy people will abandon the fight as soon as it gets tough.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Agreed except for the fact that the ones making those judgments are self anointed BS loving progressives not libs.
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
That’s for a definition of ‘white’ that includes Hispanics as white unless they identify as Black or some other racial group.
Government surveys and the resulting stats treat race (white, Black, Asian, Native American, Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander) and ethnicity (Hispanic or non-Hispanic) as two separate, independent variables. If you say ‘71% of 2024 voters were white’ that’s technically true but extremely misleading since most people think of ‘white’ and ‘Hispanic’ as being two separate, nonoverlapping categories.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m not so sure that line is so well defined. There’s a spectrum.
iKropoclast
@schrodingers_cat: ::Looks around:: if this is what success looks like for Democrats…
It’s the savvy thing to do. Also, “savviness” is also one of the preeminent political cults in our country, a little less formalized than the Republicans.
AM in NC
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I agree with this 100%. Enough with the dry, dispassionate, numbers arguments – they sway almost nobody (even though they are true). And to explicitly Christian audiences, I’d match up every evil GOP policy with the teachings of Jesus regarding those evil policies.
We need multi-stream messaging to various groups, but ALL of them should be hitting on the immorality of Republicans and what they are doing with their power.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Yes they will. And then they will blame the leadership for not being bold enough/savvy enough.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Possibly.
Baud
If current trends continue, how long before the Dems are all white and the Republicans are all non-white?
Betty Cracker
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Great point, and the Repub war on trans people is an excellent example of how “leaders” (in this case, the cynical fash like Rufo, DeSantis, et al.) can move public opinion in the wrong direction. The general public wasn’t overtly hostile to trans rights until a scaremongering campaign moved them toward that view.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: Oh good grief, we need to look at that to figure out why we lost those voters, so we don’t lose more. Are we supposed to completely ignore that this happened, and has actually been a trend since 2016? Trust me, we know most white people voted for FFOTUS, it’s not an obscure fact. You seem to be really mad that we’re even looking at what happened with the minority vote at all – why is that? I’m not sure exactly what you’re looking for white Democrats to do here. I didn’t vote for him, am I supposed to assume collective guilt for all the people I know who did?
oldgold
@Baud: it is never too late to avoid a disaster.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Baud: I think we have a lot of consensus on our values, but not on the best ways to implement policy around them. At the core of all of those disagreements is a moral desire to make the world better for people. We act like everyone knows this, but I don’t think they do. I think the GOP has polluted the language of faith to argue we want only to control them. That we are evil. We don’t make enough effort to smack that crap down. It’s almost like we think that argument is beneath us.
iKropoclast
That is not a useful time scale in terms of things that happen on planets, would take too long, we will first be consumed by the sun.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: As t-> infinity. This is never going to happen.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: I have no objection to that but that’s all we are doing while focusing little to no attention on white people who vote T. Our press treats that as if that is a natural phenomena.
And I can see why because immediately there would be howls of protest from even their liberal white audience.
Do a Google search of Latinos voting R and compare that to a Google search of WW voting R.
Why is the onus of voting D on non-white people alone?
Baud
@oldgold:
Yes it is. For example, it’s too late to fix the 2024 election.
We’re shutting down. The public can now decide whether they stand with us or the Republicans.
Belafon
So Hegseth’s “Warrior ethos” speech is basically blacks and women didn’t earn their positions, they were given them so they could be “first” (I wonder why they were the first?) and that all positions in the military require you to be the fittest male.
Betty Cracker
However dumb y’all imagined Kegsbreath’s speech to the generals would be today, dial your meters to “even dumber.”
He’s also yelling about beards. I think this ends with ambush makeovers for random admirals and generals.
Baud
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
I agree with all of that except this.
That’s too abstract. That’s what the Republicans say their doing too. They just think the world would be a better place if, for instance, trans people were eradicated and there were no support for poor people, and we deregulated polluters.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
The beard thing is about getting rid of black service members.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Best Queer Eye episode ever!
iKropoclast
I do when I’m with my family watching Fox News against my will, listening about the latest horror they’re inflicting on our immigration system. They don’t much care for my attention.
Here, I’ll tell you that the very notion of white identity is ridiculous and has done nothing but to destroy culture and consolidate power.
That’s just me, though. But I will say there seems to be pretty broad acknowledgement here that idiot white voters pose a huge, nearly insurmountable problem.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Baud: I could list all the things i think we agree on if I didn’t need to head to work, but it isn’t that vague. We believe all people are created equal and deserve a fair chance to thrive. We believe in being compassionate even when administering justice. Our sexual morality is centered around consent. We believe in being responsible stewards of the environment and the creation. Etc
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: The problem is that we don’t know how to get white people who vote for R’s to vote for us. Democrats certainly haven’t been ignoring that issue – there have been barrels of ink spilled over how to get more white people to vote for Democrats. Or have you not noticed all the screeds about how we ignore “working class voters” in favor of “elites”? That’s code for “if you’d only throw minorities/women/gays/trans people under the bus, a majority of white people might vote for you again”. Evidently just last week Bill Maher went on a screed about how Democrats need to recognize that there are only two sexes, that this would get more people to vote for them! So far most Democrats have rejected that idea. I like the idea I heard on a podcast last week, to play into human nature by pointing out that “they” are taking “your” access to healthcare away to give “them” huge tax cuts. This plays into how people already think. The message “a rising tide raises all boats” is a losing one, but it’s one that Democrats like to use because it sounds good and fair to us. Do we want to raise Musk’s and Bezo’s boat too?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: How so?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
NYT
Spanky
@Betty Cracker: No doubt he’s got the “Queer Eye” guys there for the makeovers
Eta (shakes fist at baud)
iKropoclast
@Baud: What’s a little skin infection in service of your country…?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Rs have been pretty clear that they want an apartheid in America since at least 2016. We gave them the keys to the kingdom again so they are doing what they promised
But class warriors who rail against billionaires and bleat about oligarchy are still in denial.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: This completely goes along with how R’s care more about how things look than how they work. Kegsbreath is “Exhibit A” of this idea.
piratedan
it’s almost as if the media are refusing to recognize that the GOP has an effective majority in the House and could pass this continuing CR with only GOP votes.
The focus is somehow not on those GOP members who are not voting for this, but instead on Dems. The same holds true on the Barbie of Sauron statement where she indicates that if the Healthcare of millions is in the balance, why won’t the Dems vote for it? The question could just as easily be, why won’t THESE GOP MEMBERS vote for it.
It’s amazing how even the majority party isn’t responsible for whipping their own members to maintain that majority when it comes to a vote to keep the government open, you’d think that it is a bigger deal than those losers who don’t even have a majority being responsible. They keep demanding that we take the GOP seriously, when you look at their history of breaking their promises, the rules and the laws. The better question (as always) why in the fuck would you place the blame on the people trying to put out the fire while you’re standing on the firehouse of truth and ask them why they haven’t just given the arsonist more petrol.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Good lord, that’s evil.
iKropoclast
Which also goes to show their sense of aesthetics is weird. See also: collagen, gold leaf
Belafon
@Professor Bigfoot: Racism made sure he had almost no chance of losing. Misogyny pushed him over the top. I understand the math of how it happened, and I understand the why, but I will never succumb to the need to empathize with people like that, and I am generally an overly empathetic person.
schrodingers_cat
@piratedan: Blaming the non-white people for white people do is the American way. Whether it is blaming Ds for what Rs do or blaming non-white voters for voting R while keeping mum about white voters voting R.
trnc
The bill requires 60 yes votes in the senate.
trnc
They’re counting on the usual media compliance.
Baud
@trnc:
Which the Republicans knew but nonetheless froze Dems out of the process to jam them.
It’s still the majority’s fault.
iKropoclast
One good reason, of many, why “include us in the process” is a better argument than “give us everything or the government gets it.”
topclimber
Three reasons why GOP will lose the public relations war on this one:
1. Trump’s impoundment policy means the Dems can’t believe the GOP will honor their word. It’s worthy hammering home that the guy who invented this policy was old Tricky Dick himself. (Reversed back in the day when we had a Supreme Court with integrity rather than an agenda).
2. GOP members are not even in Washington, apparently so they have time to go home and avoid town halls. Oh, and prevent the discharge petition on the Epstein files from getting the last vote it needs to pass.
3. People who lose a benefit are more motivated to get it back than those who gain a few tax dollars from screwing them. If the shutdown materializes, plenty of GOP leaning indies and even a few MAGAsouls will be squawking. All the GOP lying in the world won’t change the fact that they control Congress and that #1 and #2 above give the Dems a pass.
Sure hope I am right for a change.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: They don’t care how things look. Look at what their God looks like. It is all about race. They want to turn back the clock to pre WWII era.
HinTN
@Anne Laurie:
Preach it, sister.
Belafon
@Soprano2: Not only ink, money. Biden’s spending bills dumped a bunch of money on rural areas.
iKropoclast
@schrodingers_cat: God shouldn’t look like anything, if I’m to understand this “no graven images” bit.
Bupalos
@schrodingers_cat: There is no “onus” to voting D and no one should be getting their sense of worth or political efficacy from how many or how few of the people they share their ethnicity with voted for Harris or Trump.
The news is always what is changing, not what is staying the same. Of course white supremacy has a lot to do with politics both here and in many places abroad. Always has and probably always will. But the way that politics is changing is demonstrably not neatly along the old identity lines. There actually is as at least as much reporting on the jump in the gender divide as there is the narrowing of the ethnic divide. One of the underreported changes is that a college degree has as pronounced a leftward influence as non-white status. Another change is that religion has a more pronounced rightward influence than prior decades. My objection to the tunnel-vision on durable but declining demographic patterns between “whites” and “non-whites” is that it causes us to miss the way things are actually changing. They are changing rapidly and generally not in the favor of those of us who support democracy and equality. The narrowing in the white margin is one of the few ways that we’re NOT losing ground.
mappy!
…hold the line.
WereBear
Agreed! It’s more obvious than ever but some people need the obvious diced into small cubes, lest they choke.
Rusty
@BretH: ok, that is completely insane. Mountains of cash all being bet on the possibility of someday, in some undefined future, of making money. And it will need to be mountain ranges of money to pay back what is already spent. Yikes.
iKropoclast
If we point it out we’re shaking them and anyone who might consider them by extension. If we don’t point it out, we aren’t selling our vision. What to do?
Professor Bigfoot
@geg6: I only note that it’s always white people complaining about the Black and Jewish and female lead Democrats. If that hurts your feelings well…
iKropoclast
Well, we’re talking about an idea that if sufficiently advanced could be infinitely productive. It could take care of all human needs.
That said, I don’t think we’re there. And I don’t think it is so close that it is worth doing to the exclusion of other priorities. In fact, the energy requirements are exacerbating some of our other problems.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: Same boat with so many I know or know of.
I think a lot of older people drift into a dream world if they don’t make the effort to keep up social bonds. In the work world, you get plenty of socialization… whether you like it or not…
Yet for so many, supporting vital life elements like cooking and movement and socializing now take effort… after retirement. The fake world runs constantly and is so much more pleasant. Then, I’m convinced, their minds start to go.
Use it or lose it, my feisty grandma used to say.
iKropoclast
Yes, meanwhile Democrats are universally beloved in the Jewish and Black communities.
oldgold
@Baud: “Yes it is. For example, it’s too late to fix the 2024 election”
That does not make your point that it is too late to stop this pending political disaster.
The 2024 election is in the past. The shutdown is in the future.
The health insurance funding that the Democrats are focusing this on is not yet ripe. Fire prevention is never as popular as firefighting.
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: Very true and one of my greatest frustrations, especially now, when the obvious is wearing clown shoes and a fake nose.
This is where social media is a plus, not a minus. People share things without the gatekeeping. Good and bad.
iKropoclast
@oldgold: Funding is about to run out, the House is out of session, and Democrats can’t call the House back into session. So what to do?
Baud
@oldgold:
We’ll still win because we’ll know that the public is with the Republicans, and we can adjust our policies and messaging with that understanding in mind. Right now, we’re flying blind.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: It’s all about wanting to monopolize, as always.
WereBear
@AM in NC: Too late. They don’t follow Jesus any more. Didn’t even see it was the devil in disguise.
Can’t look that in the face. Some people are not capable and can’t be. Incurables.
WereBear
@Baud: We have three parties at last.
pajaro
There were an achingly small numbers of voters, compared to the voting totals, who, either by staying home or switching and voting for Trump, decided this last election. A rational electoral strategy would try and increase turnout in places that have been traditionally Democratic, to attempt to win back some of the minority vote that switched to Republicans, to do even better where we performed well, and to at least show up in areas that are Republican. With respect to white non-college educated voters, if we could replicate the numbers Biden achieved, it would help us.
None of this should be about blaming any particular group of voters.
oldgold
@iKropoclast: Have the Senate accept the 7 week CR.
WereBear
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
But that is some people’s idea of taking the high road. Pointing out the obvious truth is a great strength that’s been distorted that people don’t know what it is unless a comedian says it.
trnc
The flip side is that Trump could make the demand and Besset can say “OK, sure,” but not actually do anything because Trump will never know the difference.
hueyplong
So they get to shoot the hostages and blame the Democrats for the loss of health care? Seems like we just have state media now, because not even Americans* should be this stupid.
*Placed to make sure everyone understands that it’s only white people being referenced.
chemiclord
Long story short, the aggressively online left wants more vibes sent their way by Democratic legislators. Democratic legislators, not elected to be resistance leaders, aren’t keen on doing that, even as we barrel towards the result the aggressively online left wants anyway.
iKropoclast
@oldgold: Yes, kicking the can down the road famously solves problems.
Bupalos
@Professor Bigfoot: I’m not sure Schumer has had more open political opposition within the party than from Crockett and AOC, and if I remember there were other rumblings in the CBC over the leadership vote. And certainly in the electorate the most strident anti-schumer/jeffries folks are probably those for whom the ethnic cleansing in Palestine is a priority issue, which is probably disproportionately young and diverse. So I don’t think you really could be more wrong about the pure-whitieness of their critics.
Belafon
@iKropoclast: Also, Republicans can have 500 pedophiles get arrested, but it only takes one Democrat to destroy that entire message.
Eural Joiner
“He’s also yelling about beards.”
Peter the Great has entered the chat…!
Belafon
@iKropoclast:
I will say this as a white man, I am a Democrat because it’s the party closest to what I want accomplished. Those communities don’t love Democrats, but they know that elections are binary choices.
Belafon
@pajaro: Except whites. We definitely deserve the blame.
iKropoclast
Democrats supposedly tolerate all manner of sexual perversion. Sure, a God-fearing straight white man may make a little mistake here and there, but Democrats leave the door open to your children being exploited by homosexuals.
Or so I understand their thinking.
Betty Cracker
@mappy!: Schumer isn’t even the first person this week to share an incident where Trump seemed oblivious to highly relevant and easily verifiable facts pertaining to actions he’s taking now. OR Gov Tina Kotek spoke with him about “war-torn Portland” earlier and reported he referenced fires and violence that happened five years ago as if they were ongoing.
My guess is he watches Fox News all day and believes their propaganda. Doesn’t bother to consult the unparalleled real-time fact-checking assets at his disposal.
BTW, just saw a CNBC clip from this morning with Mike Johnson lying about Democrats insisting IN WRITING that healthcare coverage must be extended to undocumented immigrants as a condition for their votes. I’m sure he’s saying the same on Fox News. Trump will believe that too.
Another Scott
@trnc: So, the majority, in controlling the leadership and the schedule and the rules of debate and the rules about amendments, has the job of finding those 60 votes. (Or changing the rules so that 51 votes is enough.)
Hey, they wanted to have the majority and the leadership, they need to do the job.
Of course.
Grr…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
iKropoclast
Must be nice to have one of those.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Good. Something we can compromise on.
trnc
Plenty of blame to go around for white people, too, but the overt racism in the campaign should have made it clear that minorities would get hit with additional negative policies. We’re all dealing with the tariffs and corruption, but not everyone has to worry about being grabbed by ICE based strictly on the color of their skin.
jonas
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Normally the party doing the “blocking” gets blamed for a shutdown, but in this case, Dems are doing it for what I think is a pretty straightforward ask that affects millions of people — extend the ACA insurance tax credit. Republicans were always demanding stuff to intentionally hurt people or stupid boondoggles (e.g. the border wall).
If Dems can stay on message with that basic idea, maybe it will eventually break through the droning bothsiderism of the MSM and Trump will get cold feet and do his TACO thing. I guess we’ll see in a couple of days.
Bupalos
I hate to tell you this, but I think Harris might have done better with white non-college than Biden did. If not better, at least (somewhat shockingly) not appreciably worse.
oldgold
@iKropoclast: Sometimes, not making things worse, is the best path to take. This is such a time. Later, perhaps, the timing and terrain will be better.
Geminid
@oldgold:
A defensible view in my opinion.
According to this morning’s Politico Playbook, Democrats will get their chance this afternoon:
Playbook reporters went in to say there are some “nervewracking hours ahead,” and flacked their “Inside Congress Live” blog as a way for people to get their nerves wracked.
Playbook also posted Hakeem Jeffries response to the scurrilous video Trump’s henchmen posted yesterday:
Harrison Wesley
I liked Schumer’s statement about Trump seeming to be unaware of the impact cuts in healthcare spending will have. I hope he repeats it often.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast: Black and Jewish voters went hard for Harris.
not white people.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
chemiclord
@geg6:
Hit dogs something something…
iKropoclast
@oldgold: And sometime when a bad decision is assured whether you participate or not, it’s best to wash your hands of the situation.
Jackie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The WaPo is reporting
iKropoclast
A majority, not all. What you said is only white people were criticizing Democrats. Does it not stand to reason that Black and Jewish people who either didn’t vote or voted Republican might have some criticisms of Democrats?
ETA: I’m generally supportive of your views (approximately) that white identity is intrinsically harmful and that a large swathe of white America is acting out of spite and hurting everyone, themselves included.
But your approaching a line that suggests white people just shouldn’t be expressing an opinion at all. That might go a touch too far.
Jackie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The WaPo is reporting
Belafon
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
It requires us to go into churches and stop the preachers that are repeating Republican talking points. It requires us to intermingle with people we have actively tried to avoid because they are so damaging to us. It can’t be done from the top, it has to be done from down here.
Belafon
@iKropoclast: Show us what percent of black and Jewish voters went for Trump before you use the word “hard”.
Belafon
@iKropoclast: Are you a centrist, so that the policies you want are equally distant from Republicans and Democrats?
iKropoclast
I…didn’t?
Feel free to read what you reply to.
Belafon
@iKropoclast: Not making a choice is still a choice, especially if you have the positions they do.
Belafon
@iKropoclast: Yeah, that segment went weird on me. I attributed a summary to your words because I thought I was reading your comment.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast: White people are welcome to be as white supremacist as they want.
But I will weight their opinions accordingly.
iKropoclast
@Belafon: Elections have consequences. And so do negotiation processes. Republicans have all the majorities and if they want to shut Democrats completely out of the process, there is no reason why Democrats should vote for their budget.
Like they’re entitled to a vote because something worse might theoretically happen?
Sometimes mitigation makes things worse long term. You can take ibuprofen to bring down pain and swelling from a burst appendix, but if you don’t get antibiotics and probably have it removed, you will die
Spoken from experience.
CCL
@Belafon:
References needed here to the fat f*cks trying to catch a kid on a bike.
@Belafon:
iKropoclast
@Professor Bigfoot: So criticizing Democrats at all, even if you consistently vote for them, makes you a white supremacist even as Democrats will only elevate Black and Jewish people to leadership who perform a sort of respectability politics developed by the white men before them?
Not buying it.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker:
Look at who feeds FFOTUS “real-time” fact-checks – and there’s the problem. He’s given very hand picked reports. That’s why he was flummoxed by Schumer and Jeffries’ health insurance crisis input. NOBODY INFORMED HIM. He definitely wouldn’t have gotten that info from FAUX News or Newsmax.
Deputinize America
@Baud:
Even back when I attended USAFA in the post-Vietnam years, everyone knew about pseudofolliculitis barbae and the challenges it presented for black men in the armed forces, and allowances and waivers were generous and clearly within all manuals.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast: Don’t blame me for NOTICING that the vas majority of white voters choose white supremacy directly and SO MANY seem to ONLY complain about Democrats.
Sorry not sorry.
iKropoclast
That’s not the conversation we were having and you know that. You said only white people criticize Democrats. That is ludicrous on its face.
The goalposts stay put.
prostratedragon
@Betty Cracker:
Filipkowski:
With illustration.
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: Cause we ran a qualified woman. Complete misogyny.
different-church-lady
@iKropoclast: I certainly can’t knock someone for taking the easy setup. But seriously: Dems aren’t even close for you?
trnc
@Baud: I was answering DC’s question of why republicans need the democrats’ votes.
Nettoyeur
@lowtechcyclist: See 1929 and the election of 1932.
Baud
prostratedragon
trnc
@iKropoclast: Yes, of course.
trnc
@Another Scott: Yes, of course. I was answering DC’s question of why repubs need the dems’ votes.
different-church-lady
@prostratedragon: Dude is so lucky they’re not piling chairs on top of him right now.
different-church-lady
@lowtechcyclist:
Basically, he couldn’t fix greed.
Betty Cracker
@Paul in KY: For sure that’s part of it. As much as I hate that about this country, I kinda wish someone would tell Trump to his face that he only wins when he runs against girls. He’d meltdown like the Wicked Witch of the West.
Paul in KY
@iKropoclast: The very few I have met or heard of are very conservative Pentecostals. TACO smites teh gays, etc.
Harrison Wesley
@prostratedragon: Everybody including Jeff Epstein…,
redoubtagain
@Deputinize America:
Magic Shave has been around since 1901. My dad, who used it in the military in the 1950s, taught me how.
iKropoclast
They’re a capitalist, colonialist party whose commitment to equality seems as performative and poll-dependent as that of corporate America, writ large.
So I might like some individuals in the party, but not the party broadly. Shit, as recently as last year it was a nearly inviolable, if unwritten, rule that you had to pledge unconditional support for the
murderous inclinationsdefense of another country as recently as last year. And I’m not so confident that still won’t be the case next year.iKropoclast
@Paul in KY: I suspect I run with a younger crowd.
Belafon
@iKropoclast:
Strange that you built that into your head. I hated how many in the party we’re against placing restrictions on Israel, and yet, there were many in the party that wanted restrictions and for them to stop. So, no, the party didn’t actually have that as an even unwritten rule.
But, more importantly, I could easily see what was coming if Republicans won. How did you reconcile that and make a choice? Or did you just sit the election out?
Paul in KY
@schrodingers_cat: I think Pres. Biden and VP Harris never succinctly explained why they were going up: ‘A lot of rich people lost a lot of money during COVID. They are trying to get it back now. From you.’
Eolirin
@iKropoclast: And yet for all of that, they’re much much closer to where you’d want things to be than the Republicans and to suggest otherwise is on its face ridiculous.
LAC
Check out hud gov
Paul in KY
@schrodingers_cat: The Whites who voted for TACO are either nasty racists, those deluded by his TV show, those who didn’t understand low prices during his 1st term were due to COVID killing demand for all sorts of things, misogynists, very rich who love GQP tax policies, or single issue voters. Or some combination of all above.
Some are gettable, but many of those are not.
Eolirin
@LAC: oh ffs
Eolirin
I don’t think we’re going to win this fight. I don’t how how long we can go before we’re forced to accept a clean CR if that’s even what’s put on offer. I kind of anticipate there will be even worse conditions attached if public opinion starts to break against Dems.
I get why they feel they need to try to make a stand here and now though, because if those subsidies are allowed to expire, people will feel it in January, and a 7 week extension isn’t going to do anything to stop that. People will die because they can’t afford their premiums and there’s a real risk of a cost spiral.
But they’re already lying about the Democratic ask and they’re using the full weight of the government to push those lies. I don’t trust the media to inform people adequately.
iKropoclast
Hence the “nearly” with the inviolable. Yes, we have a few dissenters on our Israel policy and other assorted Middle East horrors. Not enough to make any significant policy change and mostly from districts with high Muslim populations.
Fact of the matter is, in every contested D primary I’ve ever watched or participated in, most candidates used the same language about Israel’s security, straight out of the can. Those candidates also consistently managed to draw the largest vote share (for that reason? Probably not? Still matters).
Multiply that requirement by ten for Presidential races. Harris couldn’t even be assed to have a pro-Palestinian speaker at her convention or various rallies. And to preempt the throat jumpers, she could have easily found people who weren’t part of the uncommitted movement.
And all of this in the aftermath of Democrats throwing out their own primary results.
I voted for Harris, but damn if my trust in Democrats wasn’t shaken to the core last year.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast: I see what I see. If you don’t that’s on you.
iKropoclast
I think what both parties want looks far too similar and Democrats’ role is to make the horror tolerable. Through several iterations of Republicans pushing the envelope and Democrats finding a new point of tolerability, the envelope gets pushed further and further…back to about the 1930s so far, but that’s not far enough back for the MotUs just yet.
Think feudal era civilizations.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@WereBear:
That is so true!
iKropoclast
I see what you say your seeing now but that isn’t what you said before. Motte and Bailey argumentation.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast: I only see white people complaining about the black and Jewish female that Democrats. So call it whatever the fuck you want, it’s what y’all do.
iKropoclast
If that’s the case, then that’s what you’re choosing to see. This claim is an absurdity.
Paul in KY
@trnc: I do agree that after TACO’s first term and the gross campaign he led, any minority darker than a paper bag who voted for TACO is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.
That, of course, goes for many Whites as well.
Miki
@Betty Cracker: NPR reported on it at 3am EDT – [Trump] posted an AI generated racist video on social media.
Paul in KY
@prostratedragon: Sounds more like 300 movie fantasies.
lou
Reading this conversation, I have a sense of frustration. Here are three reasons Republicans win.
1. They go after every seat: school board, dog catcher, election supervisor. Everything. Ds seem to only care about the national picture, like presidents and Congress. No, no, no. You have win everything. That’s also how you cultivate talent.
2. They take D strengths and turn them into weaknesses. Witness the questions about Tim Walz’s national guard service or the NJ governor candidate’s Navy service. Going back to John Kerry. Yet Ds never learn!
3. They wield cultural issues effectively. You know what nips that in the bud? Humor and making it into a weakness, a la Rs’ effective strategy. If Walz had been able to keep up his “mind your own damn business” message that might have worked. Make fun of it! There’s 10 trans athletes both boy and girl? That’s a major issue?! A D won over a popular R mayor by using that kind of humor in Omaha. His message was “hey, I’m worried about bread and butter issues while she’s peeking under bathroom stalls.”
Ds just keep making the same mistakes over and over and over. I’m glad they’re not with this round of closing the federal government. Republicans own this lock, stock and barrel and every Democratic member of Congress needs to be on TV, radio, TikTok, whatever, making that point.
rant over.
Betty Cracker
@Miki: Thanks. They did a decent job of summarizing it too.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast:
of course, to a white guy. 🙄
Paul in KY
@iKropoclast: I guess so. For me, an actual Black person who has voted for TACO is very, very hard to find. Sure there are some who voted on the downlow.
LAC
@Professor Bigfoot: it is exhausting, but this what we are reduced to these days: deflection by allies, endless explaining things that can be looked up in Google. Meanwhile the othering of our people is fully being realized by this regime. I am tired and discouraged.
lowtechcyclist
@trnc:
Only due to the filibuster rule. And all it would take is 50 GOP votes + Couchfucker to carve an exception to that rule, or dispense with it entirely.
So they still don’t need a single Dem vote. The media won’t call them on it, though.
And a reminder: when T45 took office in 2017, confirmation of Supreme Court nominees could be filibustered. The GOP majority exempted them from the filibuster rule in order to confirm Gorsuch. So they know they can change the rules on filibusters, they’ve done it that recently.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: They are very hung up on people’s looks. They don’t care if you can do the job as long as you look good.
iKropoclast
@Paul in KY: Also worth noting that non-voters might not actually be disengaged and have their own criticisms of Ds.
As a general rule, acknowledging black voters as the backbone of the Democrats is right and good. Fetishizing black people as universally enlightened and on our side and mystically wise seems unhealthy. For one thing, it’s still a separation.
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
Bingo.
They want democrats to submit because otherwise they own the entire mess. I left out the sailor adjective there. Starts with an F.
The rethuglicans seem to be trying to steal the government, as if with this president they think not only can they get away with it, it will be a major win for them. I think when the entirety of their goals and ignorance hits the nation, it will not go well for them. Stealing a country can go either way but one of this size and with communications being what they are today, I’d bet long run it won’t go well for them.
iKropoclast
For a highly disputable definition of looking good.
Kathleen
@Betty Cracker: This reminds me of a scene in The Devil Wears Prada where Amanda Priestly bemoans the fact no one can find a trim paratrooper for their spread about fashionable women in the military.
ETA adding the obligatory “I realize this thread is deader than Stephen Miller’s eyes but…”
trnc
@Paul in KY:
True dat.
trnc
@lowtechcyclist:
I suspect they don’t have 50 votes to ditch the filibuster, with Collins and Murkowski being the obvious holdouts, plus a less obvious one like Tillis or Lankford.
pajaro
@Belafon:
I’m Jewish. My ethnicity votes 70% Democratic, more than just about any group other than African American Women. Believe me, I understand the privilege my white skin gives me in the US, but it’s not the most important thing to me when I go into the voting booth.
@trnc: This is not about whom the onus is upon. This is about what we might do to bring back voters who might have previously voted democratic or who are more immediately affected by some of Trump’s awful policies. It’s a political judgement about how to allocate resources, not a moral question.
Kathleen
@chemiclord: Heart emoji.
MazeDancer
Feels like having the entire military brass in one town makes the discussions on “How do we stop them?” much easier.
The Thin Black Duke
@schrodingers_cat: Pie is delicious. Just saying.
Eolirin
@iKropoclast: it’s far closer to reality than your position on the parties.
The reason why we have the problems we have is because the politicial center of gravity in this country is white people and especially white men, and so their cultural views hold primacy.
Politics and culture have feedback loops, but cultural movement is in the driver’s seat. The Republicans’ rightward shift was a concerted, coordinated, cultural movement started in the 70s to push back against the successes of the civil rights movement. And if Dems have tolerated that shift it’s only because the rest of the country did.
You want the Dems to move more to the left you need enough of the country to want that and to push them there. That’s how this has always worked.
lowtechcyclist
[Belafon @150]
@iKropoclast:
Good to know you feel that neither party is closer to what you want accomplished.
Guess that’s all I need to know about you.
iKropoclast
@Eolirin: The reason why we have the problems we have is because the politicial center of gravity in this country is white people and especially white men, and so their cultural views hold primacy.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Therefore, this:
Might be a bit of a misrepresentation.
Are Dems lacking in independent free will? They didn’t just move with the country. They acquiesced and accommodated that shift. They are enablers. Appeasers.
iKropoclast
I agree wholeheartedly.
Therefore, this:
Might be a bit of a misrepresentation.
Are Dems lacking in independent free will? They didn’t just move with the country. They acquiesced and accommodated that shift. They are enablers. Appeasers.
ETA; Ugh, duplicated is worse than having your comment eaten.
iKropoclast
Once your party starts engaging in the practice of overturning democratically conducted elections, it has no place in a democratically run country.
When that failed to win them power (shockingly🙄), many elected DS and voters started turning on trans people, immigrants, and unionists in various ways.
Comparing Dems and Republicans is like Cyclopses and Sirens. Yeah, one is superficially more pleasant, but that’s mostly all noise. They’re both going to eat you alive.
Ruckus
@Professor Bigfoot:
I believe I understand your position and responses. And I agree with you. I also believe that while there are no where near as many racists on the democratic side as on the pure shit side of our politics, there are, at least in some parts of this country many white people that fully believe that humans with more of one chemical, making their skin darker than them, can and do believe that racism is pure unacceptable bullshit. We are humans, We don’t all look the same, we aren’t all the same size, strength, or whatever but we are ALL HUMAN. But hate is one human emotion that has been abused for all the wrong reasons for eons. We have hate as a protective emotion and that concept has been massively abused for forever. I know that a lot of white people seem overjoyed at using hate for all the wrong reasons, like their own seeming power and benefit. It’s pure bullshit and 1 billion percent wrong. I don’t know how to fix it and I also know it will not be light switch quick. It is still and absolutely wrong. And I know because of people I’ve known for most of my rather old life. It’s humanity, in all it’s skin tones. And genetics. Humanity isn’t always good, rational, reasonable, likable, honest, helpful, one skin tone, but it also isn’t all just hateful assholes. And we don’t change minds easily or in one fell swoop. And in many ways we don’t always agree with each other. All skin tones have fought wars for power, position and wealth. Many do not accept that those that don’t look like the same model of human that they are, are in any way good or in any way have the same right to live. It is, as some have said bullshit. I have zero idea how we convey that concept of equality, even in a country that has that as one of it’s basic tenets. And I have no idea how we change that concept, because it’s humanity, in all it’s genetics, shades of skin, intelligence and stupidity.
But it won’t go well if we don’t figure it out. As has been seen quite a few times in history.
Paul in KY
@iKropoclast: This is straight up both-sides BS. You are completely full of shit on this.
schrodingers_cat
@Paul in KY: Agreed.
iKropoclast
@Paul in KY: I believed like you for a long time. Last year and even everything I’ve seen since the election have completely broken my trust in Democrats.
They can start rebuilding it by getting rid of the poll-driven consultants. I’d rather hear something authentic from politicians that I flat out disagree with than some hogwash calibrated not to offend anyone.
tam1MI
@schrodingers_cat: But we have to focus our analysis only on how 28% of the non-white citizens voted….
… Because that was the thing that changed. The problems with WM and WW voting R have long pre-dated this specific election.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@geg6: Hit dogs holler.
MisterForkbeard
@iKropoclast: There are a LOT of criticism of Ds. We engage with a lot of those here.
There’s also a huge amount of people yelling “they’re just as bad, both corporate owned stooges who never do anything good for you”. I even saw a bunch of people talking about Dems as if they were anti-LGBT, because “they’ve never even elected a president who was pro-gay-marriage for their entire lifetime” and getting a lot of support.
Much of the discontent with Dems is just bonkers nonsense and I don’t know how to solve that except a truly disastrous thing like Trump attacking US cities, which is currently ongoing. And even then, these same idiots are just pretending Dems are slightly less bad
EDIT: OH. I just realized that it’s you. You’re doing this in this thread. Whoops.
Geminid
@tam1MI: I think people ought to focus analysis on both groups: the 72% of minority votesr who chose Harris, as well as the 28% who did not.. Sure, it’s important to discover why the 28 percent voted for Trump, but it’s just as important to find out what motivated the 72 percent.
And maybe more usefull. If Democrats know what issues and what messages resonated positively with these Harris voters, they’ll be better able to appeal to that portion of the 28 percent that are gettable.
geg6
@Professor Bigfoot:
Like I said, fuck you.
Peke Daddy
@BretH: AI goes, non renewable energy to power it goes, Nvidia goes, Tesla may go, too.
geg6
@Interesting Name Goes Here:
And fuck you, too.
Gloria DryGarden
@Ruckus: women don’t look the same model as men… and we have sometimes received a ration of shit.
meanwhile, a small request:
your comments are interesting and insightful, and you share from an interesting range of experiences.
Would you consider breaking your long paragraphs into smaller chunks, for easier reading? I don’t mean say anything less. Just insert spaces, like a paragraph break, to help the eyes. Would that be possible?
Gloria DryGarden
@MagdaInBlack: it’s a really good point. We need more progressive based spanish news.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@geg6: Quit hollering.
chemiclord
@Interesting Name Goes Here: Remember back in 2016 when Hillary Clinton made a comment about one of the people on stage with her had Russian influence? And Tulsi that night got her dander all up?
Hillary’s response was along the lines of, “I didn’t even drop your name, but if you’re gonna volunteer…”
That’s the energy between the Professor and this geg clown right now.