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Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

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The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / I was about to hit Publish on a post about where we go from here, but that can wait, this is more fun!

I was about to hit Publish on a post about where we go from here, but that can wait, this is more fun!

by | 279 Comments

This post is in: 

Is it too conspiracy theory-ish to think that this is coming out the night after Rs got crushed in pretty much every election because Rs are starting to question whether supporting the big orange buffoon is still a good idea?

It would be irresponsible not to speculate!

I was about to hit Publish on a post about where we go from here, but this is more fun!h/t oldgold

Open thread.

 

Reader Interactions

279Comments

  2. 2.

    jonas

    Trump has shut down the entire US government in order to avoid a vote in the House to release these files. The fact that that’s not now the dominant narrative in the MSM right now is a testimony to their utter uselessness. Whatever is in those files must be insane.

  4. 4.

    A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)

    That should be the new Dem demand to end the shut down: “Release the Epstein files, or no deal”.

    That has the benefit of being a concrete immediate action, not something they can renege on. No deal until the files are public.

  5. 5.

    HinTN

    I will assert that it’s not about sex, per se, but about money and it’s influence on power. The sex, such as it may turn out to be, is incidental to that. Although the MSM may try to make it about salacious details to cover up their complicity/corruption.

  9. 9.

    Wilson Heath

    Nationwide no-fly zone is coming after the Senate recesses next week and has gone home in an attempt by Shitler to de facto eliminate Congress. I’m putting that at 33% chance.

  10. 10.

    XeckyGilchrist

    @HinTN: Agreed, and I think the revelations would splash onto a lot more oligarchs than Trump. As before, when the wingnuts were chanting “Bill Clinton’s in there too!”, if it implicates people on the Dem side I’m fine with that, I want them out of government too.

  11. 11.

    Parfigliano

    I predict that when convicted, I don’t know for what, at sentencing Ivanka will plea for mercy by alleging her problems trace back to daddy molesting her.

  12. 12.

    jonas

    @A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno): That sounds fun, but ultimately no one’s actual (as opposed to political) lives are at stake with the Epstein files, whereas getting SNAP and the insurance subsidies back online are, literally, life and death matters for millions of Americans. Dems have to hold the line on those, while making the MSM understand that Republicans aren’t negotiating on the budget precisely because they don’t want to release the Epstein files.  

  13. 13.

    Belafon

    @A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno): As much fun as that story is, they should keep the focus on health care, food, and travel. Not that they can’t bring it up. “We would like to continue to keep health care affordable and to provide food to people, but Republicans are keeping the government shut down to avoid releasing the Epstein files.”

  20. 20.

    Ramalama

    Grim news but the Supreme Court in Canada just ruled that an ostrich farm in Canada has to cull the whole flock (of ostriches, duh)  even the ones who did not catch avian flu. It’s controversial and sad but the ruling was made thusly because they don’t want the chance of the virus to spread.

    Guess who’s offering to transport possibly-infected birds over the border to the US? That’s right. It’s Leather Kennedy and Dr Oz. 

  21. 21.

    jonas

    @XeckyGilchrist: Clinton copped to riding on Epstein’s plane a couple of times to (iirc) Europe or Africa or something on business for the Clinton Foundation. The only (sort of) major Dem pol who was alleged to have actually participated in some of Epstein’s trafficking debauchery was the late Bill Richardson.

    And he’s dead, not the current POTUS.

  24. 24.

    Shakti

    @jonas: The cliche is “dead girl or live boy”. I speculate it’s “dead boy” even though Trump is heterosexual and gross.

     

    Remember this is a guy who had rumors of a pee tape circulating, a “I had sex with a porn star and had her sign an NDA and then she sued me for nonpayment” arc, fellated a microphone on stage before a live audience…

    Who knows? Maybe he’s on tape reenacting an episode of Black Mirror and he’s the real head of Pizzagate and inherited the DC Madam’s clientele extorting people through memecoin payments to the presidential library and gifts of jets and business permits around the world.

    Maybe he has a trove of (Epstein?) revenge porn to leak  and a “300 lb hacker” ” who is good with computer” churning out AI porn to supplement which explains why Congress is protecting him.

  25. 25.

    jonas

    @Ramalama: Oz has done this before — offered sanctuary to infected (or potentially infected) animals on his Florida ranch. I’m sure Florida poultry farmers are thrilled. But they also voted for these idiots, so the violin I’m playing is really, really small.

  27. 27.

    jonas

    @Shakti:  I speculate it’s “dead boy” even though Trump is heterosexual and gross.

    Whatever did happen to that Florida pool boy the Falwells used?

  28. 28.

    They Call Me Noni

    @Belafon: A lot of Repubs voted for him because he said he would release those files. Not coming down on one side or the other of this argument, just stating a fact.

  29. 29.

    Scout211

    Jeffries is really pushing back but you have to search online to actually find what he says about this.

    From Monday:

    House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) on Monday went after President Trump and Republican leaders over the Jeffrey Epstein case, saying their refusal to press for the release of the government files on the convicted child sex offender is tantamount to protecting pedophiles.

    Jeffries pointed specifically to Speaker Mike Johnson’s (R-La.) decision not to seat Rep.-elect Adelita Grijalva (D) as evidence of his charge. Grijalva won a special election in Arizona on Sept. 23 and is vowing to be the deciding signature on a discharge petition that would force the Justice Department to release the undisclosed Epstein documents — whenever she’s sworn in.

    “The Trump administration and Mike Johnson are running a pedophile protection program,” Jeffries told reporters in the Capitol. “That’s what they’ve been doing, and that’s the reason why they refuse to swear in Rep.-elect Adelita Grijalva, for weeks now.”

    So the MSM seems to be in on that pedophile protection program.  But Jeffries is definitely pushing back.

  30. 30.

    Steve in the ATL

    @HinTN: I agree on all counts with the esteemed senator from Tennessee!

    Fine, HinTN may not be an actual senator but he has senatorial hair!

  31. 31.

    Bupalos

    I’m watching the new Netflix adaptation of Candice Millard’s James A. Garfield novel, and it has me thinking about how Trump Nation could transform into Charles Guitau Nation pretty quick-like.

    A lot of these people really did think this puddle of narcissistic spew was their ticket to heaven. It’s been weird and ugly, but it might get weirder and uglier if and when they lose their god.

  32. 32.

    counterfactual

    Off topic, I walked past my dad’s chair when Fox News was talking about Nancy Pelosi’s decision not to run again. They were being graceful about it. Did the super moon this week dump me in a new timeline?

  35. 35.

    Parfigliano

    @jonas: Richardson wouldn’t have even needed to ride on Epstein’s plane due to Epstein’s ranch located right here in NM.

  38. 38.

    Geminid

    @jonas: My attitude is, the Epstein have a certain value unreleased. They’re a cloud hanging over Trump, and an ongoing focus of agitation. Meanwhile, related material keeps coming out on a weekly  basis, and this adds to the public clamor about the Files.

    It could turn out that the Epstein Files are not just a cloud hanging over Trump, but a Sword of Damocles whose release will spell Trump’s political doom. But if Congress were to compel release, I am not convinced they won’t be sanitized before they are released

  40. 40.

    Jackie

    @jonas:

    Whatever is in those files must be insane.

    Here’s more to the snippet WaterGirl posted:

    Several House Republicans have reportedly heard from the Department of Justice (DOJ) that the unreleased Jeffrey Epstein documents are especially compromising for President Donald Trump.

    That’s according to reporting from former MSNBC, CNN and FOX News reporter David Shuster, who posted to his X account on Wednesday that there is “speculation/rumors sweeping through [the] GOP caucus” about the details of the Epstein files.

    “A few GOP house members say they’ve heard from FBI/DOJ contacts that the Epstein files (with copies in different agencies) are worse than Michael Wolff’s description of Epstein photos showing Trump with half naked teenage girls,” Shuster wrote.

    Shuster is likely referring to an October interview in which Trump biographer Michael Wolff told the Daily Beast that he had personally seen “about a dozen Polaroid snapshots” of Trump and Epstein, in which Trump was photographed with several topless young women on his lap. Wolff said Epstein pulled the photos out of a safe and spread them out “like a deck of cards” on his dining room table. The author told the Beast he saw the photos while visiting Epstein’s home at the convicted sex offender’s invitation, as Epstein wanted Wolff to write a book about him.

    The veteran journalist further reported that Republicans were “spooked” by Attorney General Pam Bondi’s testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, after she refused to answer a question from Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) about whether she had personally seen the photos after the contents of Epstein’s safe were confiscated.

  41. 41.

    gene108

    @HinTN:

    I will assert that it’s not about sex, per se, but about money and it’s influence on power. The sex, such as it may turn out to be, is incidental to that.

    I think it’s about both the sex and the money powerful people think can protect them.

    Without the sex, it’s just rich people giving money to Jeffrey Epstein to invest. Rich people giving money for someone to invest for them isn’t a big deal.

  46. 46.

    jonas

    @Geminid:  But if Congress were to compel release, I am not convinced they won’t be sanitized before they are released

    That’s a real concern with this crew. At first I didn’t give much credence to the uproar over the “Nothing to See Here” prison video from the day Epstein died, but it turns out the video was definitely edited prior to release, contrary to the FBI’s claims lies. Wired’s “Uncanny Valley” podcast had a pretty good rundown of what they think was done.

    You just have assume everything — everything — this crew says is a flaming lie until proven otherwise.

  48. 48.

    jonas

    @HinTN: “In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women!“

  49. 49.

    counterfactual

    @Belafon: It’s not “the American people” in general, but a sub cult

    The Republican Party is now a personality cult focused on Trump. One of the sub cults is Qanon.

    The central doctrine of Qanon is:

    1. I’m unhappy because of Evil Elites.
    2. Those elites are so awful they must be doing terrible things to children
    3. There exists clear and irrefutable evidence of those crimes that will bring down the elites, and the Evil will be Punished and the Faithful will be Rewarded

    When Trump announced that the Epstein files were Fake News, for Qanon that was like a Christian pastor saying there was no Ressurection and there will be no Rapture. That’s enough to crack the cult conditioning to let in news about the economy and power grabs, and at least some of them are now leaving the cult — see Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    It’s just a start, but it is a hole in Trump’s teflon

  50. 50.

    David_C

    Yesterday, hundreds of public health professionals gathered after the annual American Public Health Association conference to stand up for public health and oppose this administration. Speakers included Rep. Frost of FL, other politicians, including TN Rep. Justin Jones, and two past and present employees of the CDC and NIH.

    apha.org/events-and-meetings/apha-calendar/rally-on-the-national-mall

    Following the rally, the group marched to HHS headquarters to deliver “petitions” for the impeachment and removal of RFK, Jr.

    actionnetwork.org/events/march-for-health-and-science

    Some news coverage:

    dcnewsnow.com/video/hundreds-rally-for-public-health-amid-government-shutdown/11236985/

    I have a bunch of pictures, too.

  51. 51.

    Soprano2

    @jonas: FFOTUS had a “modeling agency”. I have to wonder if it was a front for human trafficking, and that’s what’s in those files. I figure it’s something financial, because FFOTUS doesn’t care about the gross sexual stuff.

  52. 52.

    jonas

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Some WH staffer/aide or whoever recently told some reporter or someone who leaked it that they weren’t too worried about the Epstein files because they’d just doctor them to make sure only Democrats were implicated.

    Either the guy was just an idiot bluffing to impress someone, or they’ve found that either 1. they’re a lot harder to doctor than they assumed and 2. it’s only people with GOP connections. They can’t just release files with 100% of the names and images redacted and hope that the press thinks it’s all Democrats (although they’ll probably try).

  53. 53.

    Suzanne

    @Belafon:

    “We would like to continue to keep health care affordable and to provide food to people, but Republicans are keeping the government shut down to avoid releasing the Epstein files.”

    Can someone make a nice graphic of this and share it on socials? Make this go viral in nice typography.

  55. 55.

    Josie

    @jonas: I find it hard to believe that these files have been around for a while, and no one has made copies of the worst of them to use at a later date. I know the FBI has been hollowed out, but I’ll bet there are a few people left who are not supporters of the dear leader.

  58. 58.

    Bupalos

    @Warren Senders: Yeah not a novel, I don’t know what we call narrativized  history exactly. I guess just that. I don’t mean to diminish it as history, I think she uses gap-filling imagination wonderfully and with restraint.

    Anyway the Netflix adaptation is excellent, but just 4 episodes of 1 hour, so obviously it’s condensed and focused. The casting is fantastic. There is some further narrative gap-filling, like putting Sherman himself at the convention and acting betrayed, which is just flatly inaccurate and not from Millard. But as the producer described it (we had a screening and Q&A at Hiram College) that was a kind of narrative shorthand for the way Sherman delegates did feel which couldn’t otherwise be portrayed compellingly or quickly. The whole thing seems like a very thoughtful kind of popularization.

  59. 59.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Josie: If a Bowlderized version is officially released, someone will leak the full thing them next day.  It’s not a viable option.

  61. 61.

    azlib

    It seems the Republican strategy always assumed he Dems would fold. With the election sweep, that seems a lot less likely. No wonder they are now in even more chaos.

  62. 62.

    bbleh

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I would put 10-1 that he, or a minion in his name, would ORDER anything with him in or on it DESTROYED rather than released, rules of evidence or demands of Congress be damned.

    I think the ONLY way we are likely to see anything is if it is leaked (re which I was heartened by the “different agencies” reference).  The leak would be denied as “fake” and “AI” and whatnot, but that wouldn’t matter much outside the Cult, and they’re write-offs anyway.

  65. 65.

    Shakti

    @Belafon: Hit all the outrage buttons.

    Trump shut down the government so he can take away your healthcare, starve you and funnel the fuck you tariffs on everything you buy from the food in your fridge to the clothes on your back to the blackmailers ready to release all of his Vore. He’s making AI vore videos on the  marble toilet in the demolished East Wing right now.

     

    It’s Pizzagate, but these fuckers stole your Dominoes too.

     

    [I am not nearly perverse enough for this.]

  67. 67.

    Bupalos

    @counterfactual: I agree but I think it’s more than a hole in teflon, more like an unstoppable leak. Qannon is an intensified form of the general phenomenon. Trump’s entire political substance flows from the idea of the secret elite feeding on and destroying the common man. He has to actually deliver on that myth, and ‘Epstein’ is shorthand for the reality that he cannot. Whether the hole is punched larger or not, the leak is terminal.

  73. 73.

    hueyplong

    @Josie: The classified docs at Mar a Lago story teaches that Trump is willing to do absurd and desperate things to avoid release of the presumably  much worse stuff in the Epstein files. I’d bet a lot more than I can afford to lose that Trump has something awful on Johnson and that’s in part why the whiny cipher is the Speaker.

  75. 75.

    FelonyGovt

    Don’t know if anyone has posted this from Jay Kuo about Tuesday’s results, but it’s so delicious I wanted to make sure that no one missed it.

  78. 78.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: I also think that is the case. The best Trump’s advocates could do would be to claim forgery, maybe computer-generated imagery.

    They could still go that route, but I’m not sure the the AG would go along. Bondi is someone to watch here

    Ed. And so are Republocan House members maybe Senators too. Some of them know stuff journalists and the general public do not. And like you say, Tuesday’s elections must have impressed them, and not in a cheerful way.

  80. 80.

    Gin & Tonic

    OT: A Ukrainian court has convicted a russian soldier of murder for the killing of an unarmed POW in the Zaporizhzhia area in January of 2024. Since Ukraine does not use the death penalty, the soldier, Dmitri Kurashov, has been sentenced to life in prison.

  83. 83.

    Kathleen

    @counterfactual: I’ve noticed thru the years that very few if any media people left or right drag Nancy Pelosi the way they drag other Democrats particularly Democratic women like Clinton and Harris. I find that curious. I think Jon Stewart treated her perfunctorily in an interview and came across as disrespectful but that’s the only time I recall disrespectful treatment. But I could be wrong.

  85. 85.

    Ramalama

    @jonas: DAMN. Oz hates fat people but throws his arms open for any swiney virus.

    Clarity note: Canada rejected the offers to relocate the birds. They all must go.

  86. 86.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Belafon: That’s not the case. They had a mythical conception of the Epstein files. The MAGA cult were using Epstein against Hillary Clinton in 2016. To them, the Epstein files implicated liberal elites and Trump was the man who was going to blow it wide open. Trump saying he won’t do it is a real shock to them.

  87. 87.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Bupalos:

    I’m watching the new Netflix adaptation of Candice Millard’s James A. Garfield novel

    Thanks for the tip, that’s a great book, highly recommend.

  89. 89.

    Ramalama

    @Professor Bigfoot: My aunt recommended I bring earplugs with me when I had surgery this summer. It really helped me recover: sleep better (despite the wake up calls) / ability to chill some despite cries from other patients nearby.

    Hope you’re resting and getting better and get out of there ASAP.

  90. 90.

    Kathleen

    @Jackie: Drip drip drip. Why one could almost think that the goal  to retire him to Mara Largo. Maybe MAGAT’s owners are secretly delighted about Tuesday’s results because it hastens the inevitable. Would be irresponsible not to speculate. Reminds me of Watergate days. Nixon seemed  unstoppable until he suddenly wasn’t.

  91. 91.

    Shakti

    @Hildebrand: @Omnes Omnibus:  He was/is endlessly edging these people with the release of every single file known to man in the FBI/CIA whatever vault like he’s Geraldo Rivera trying to open Jimmy Hoffa’s last resting place or Tutenkamen’s ultra secret tomb but he thinks going “nothing to see here! the government is closed! All budget is belong to me” is going to shut up the Mulder-Glenn Beck-murder-board-brained-QAnons into thinking it’s been solved?

  97. 97.

    lowtechcyclist

    @FelonyGovt:

    Don’t know if anyone has posted this from Jay Kuo about Tuesday’s results, but it’s so delicious I wanted to make sure that no one missed it.

    Thanks – that was worth the read!!

  98. 98.

    Mike E

    @jonas: the Dem to GOP ratio is imo clearly not significant enough to allow this regime to cover their pedophilia. I say this as I won’t abide by any transgressions by politicians that we’d prefer over these fascists, but the criminals in charge are so dirty the normies just might notice it and that’s why we are at this point in history.

  100. 100.

    JetsamPool

    At this point I expect the files to implicate a lot of donors in money laundering and other illegal financial activities, plus evidence that FFOTUS participated in trafficking.

    I do not expect the current DOJ to do anything to prosecute even the most blatant crimes, and I no longer believe that MSM will do more than shrug and say “both-sides!”, with only perfunctory and minimal reporting.

    If I understand the process correctly, it will be: vote on discharge petition -> vote on House floor -> vote in Senate -> DOJ drags their feet -> DOJ refuses to release files -> appeal to Supreme Court -> Supreme Court drags their feet -> ???

    So even if we can get past step 1 of the release process, there are lots of opportunities for delays.

  103. 103.

    artem1s

    this is kind of fun too
    JD Vance’s MAGA Half-Brother Loses Big Time In Mayor’s Race
    evidently they art both carpetbaggers
    Just one week before Election Day, however, Bowman faced an allegation of voting fraud when it was reported that two addresses affiliated with him and his wife, Jordan, weren’t located in Cincinnati’s “West End,” where the couple said they’d voted in October and had moved to “right after the primary” in May. Bowman didn’t publicly respond to those accusations.

  107. 107.

    SFAW

    @trollhattan:

    We won’t be treated to another quite like Nancy SMASH for awhile, I suspect.

    And some of our “friends” over at LGM are sorry she didn’t leave 10 years ago, because OLDOLDOLD.

    I don’t generally have the hatred for LGM that a number of commenters here have, but sometimes I want to throttle them and their commenters.

  109. 109.

    HinTN

    @gene108: I think it’s money laundering and the leverage the knowledge thereof gives the holder of said knowledge.

    I agree with all above who said I shouldn’t minimize the pain of the victims. That was never my intent.

  110. 110.

    Geminid

    So I checked out Caoitol Hill correspondent Jaime Dupree to see if he had anything on this story. He did not, but he did post a picture of Mike Johnson’s press conference yesterday. The Speaker stood brhind a podium at the base of the Capitol steps, with 14 caucus members bunched closely on the steps behind him.

    Dupree summarized Johnson’s remarks:

    Johnson’s post-election message:

    “There were no surprises,” and Mamdani Mamdani Mamdani Mamdani.

    Jaime Dupree also posted Marjorie Taylor Greene’s analysis:

    Politics is no different than business.

    Business 101:

    If you don’t deliver what you promise, then don’t expect return customers.

  111. 111.

    Matt McIrvin

    @FelonyGovt: Kuo says:

    Of course, this was an off-year election. Dems traditionally do better in them thanks to more engaged voters.

    What struck me about this was the word “traditionally”. This is actually a very recent pattern that we only saw arise around Trump’s first term. Before that, Republicans generally did better in midterm, off-year and special elections because they were the ones with the more motivated voters. But it’s flipped upside down.

  116. 116.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    @Bupalos: there is an elite feeding on and destroying the common man, it’s just not secret. Our society is increasingly being structured so that all wealth flows upward to an increasing small group of billionaires. The only place where’s this is obvious, though, is places where the wealth is visible, such as NYC, which is why the place just elected a socialist mayor, and California, which just passed Prop. 50.

    @Professor Bigfoot: best wishes & Hope you recover soonest

  120. 120.

    Jackie

    @FelonyGovt:

    Don’t know if anyone has posted this from Jay Kuo about Tuesday’s results, but it’s so delicious I wanted to make sure that no one missed it.

    Thanks! I bookmarked it to share as needed when anyone tries to convince me “it was just a few blue states” LOL

  123. 123.

    JML

    Whether Nancy Pelosi may or may not have overstayed her time, she’s still going to go down in history as one of the best Speakers in US history. Absolutely S-Tier. (They should enact the Wyoming Plan, build more office space for the House, and name the complex after her)

    She knew how to count, which sadly is still underrated when it comes to legislating. She didn’t take legislative differences personally, and could still work with whomever she needed to in order to get a law through. She kept her caucus together and gave herself the room to let people color outside the lines when they needed to, which also let them move back in step when she needed them to as well. She even mentored her juniors so others could step up when the time came.

    Love Nancy Pelosi. Met her once, during her first run as Speaker. Having her turn her full attention on me was one of the more intimidating experiences of my life (she was still very nice, but boy howdy). I always got the impression that she was never surprised by any room she ever walked into.

  125. 125.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Scout211:

    So the MSM seems to be in on that pedophile protection program.  But Jeffries is definitely pushing back.

    The media avoid any direct confrontation with their cherished content provider. And everyone in our leadership needs to accept that the media are opposed to us holding power.

  131. 131.

    Ken B

    @azlib: I’m seeing reports that some ConservaDem senators are trying to patch up a deal with the Repugs in the Senate to cave. It sounds a lot like what the GOP’s been talking about, open it up and then they pinkie swear to let the Dems get a vote.

    Don’t know if there’s enough of them to do it or not. Hopefully not.

  132. 132.

    WaterGirl

    @Old School: I don’t know.

    Did the New York Times ruin media credibility?

    That one, we can discuss!  Might be a short discussion, though.

    YES!

    I agree!

  133. 133.

    Ken B

    @azlib: I’m seeing reports that some ConservaDem senators are trying to patch up a deal with the Repugs in the Senate to cave. It sounds a lot like what the GOP’s been talking about, open it up and then they pinkie swear to let the Dems get a vote.

    Don’t know if there’s enough of them to do it or not. Hopefully not.

  135. 135.

    WaterGirl

    @Ken B:  Surely our leaders can convey to these naive (I want to call them idiots)  people that a promise from Rs is worth less than nothing.

  136. 136.

    Peke Daddy

    @Belafon: Fun? This story is guaranteed to expose elite behavior that would make Renaissance popes and Caligula blush, the entire list of decadence acts is the perfect metaphor for this enabling culture. Make sure this and the cruelty are linked at the hip in every message.

  137. 137.

    Ruckus

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    In the end I doubt they will be purged. dump can’t really control the files/recordings so unless he’s got a buddy willing to risk everything, it’s likely at least a court(s) will see them. These were teenage girls, a lot of them, and there have been pictures released a while ago of dump and his buddies with teen girls. This was about as bad as it gets criminally wise. The boss is gone but quite a few customers are still around, like dump. Oh wait that’s trump, not dump……

  140. 140.

    Cluttered Mind

    I don’t think it’s Trump that they’re protecting. Trump can weather literally any sex scandal, he’s demonstrated that pretty thoroughly. But consider what happens to the Republican Party if the Epstein Files have some or even all of the following people in them:

    Lachlan Murdoch
    Leonard Leo
    Larry Ellison
    Richard Uihlein

    You get the idea. Big structural problems for the Republicans if their big money infrastructure gets compromised by this. I feel like that’s a more likely reason for them to want to hide it than just more filth about Trump. Everyone knows Trump is gross, even his own cult.

  143. 143.

    Belafon

    @Peke Daddy: If it does get released, it could be the biggest story everywhere, except CBS, FOX, the Washington Post, the New York Times, any station and newspaper in the Midwest…

  144. 144.

    Ruckus

    @counterfactual:

    dump’s teflon was fake.

    I’ve wondered, did dump run for office at least in part to shield him the repercussions of hanging around with Epstein? Because there are pictures of them together.

  147. 147.

    JoyceH

    Okay I’ve come around to the belief that Trump is in the files and not in a trivial way. Earlier I’d thought that an alternate explanation for the stonewalling might be that he was taking big bribes to cover for the rich and powerful. But I no longer buy that – too much time has passed, the story isn’t going away and Trump is taking personal damage for it. Plus, what could the richest corrupt oligarch pay him that he wasn’t already making on crypto in the light of day?

    For those who wish the scandal that takes down Trump was more substantive and less salacious, get over it. The great thing about the Epstein Files story is that it’s adhesive, it ain’t going anywhere. How many Trump outrages have gone on for more than a week before being supplanted and forgotten by the next outrage? The Epstein Files has been going strong for four months! Even when a new talking point takes center stage, the files don’t leave. Shut down the government? It’s to delay the release.  Building a huge gilded ballroom? It’s the Epstein Ballroom. Trump is never going to get away from Epstein- BFFs forever.

  148. 148.

    Deputinize America

    Fun Thought of the Day:

    House compromises with Senate on reopening and ACA subsidies, and Trump vetoes in a fit of pique with a declaration that essentially says “l’etat, c’est moi”.

  149. 149.

    Steve LaBonne

    I mean, I’ve assumed all along that there was stuff at least as bad as that for Trump. There’s no other way to explain the frantic efforts to keep the files under wraps.

  156. 156.

    Ruckus

    @Kathleen:

    And there is a difference between Nixon and dump. As the days go by that difference seems to get better for Nixon because they get worse for dump.

  157. 157.

    jonas

    @Ruckus: He ran for office again because his delicate, crystalline ego couldn’t accept that he lost in 2020. That and the fact that he’d otherwise be spending the rest of his natural life in prison if he couldn’t make all the criminal cases against him go away, especially the stolen docs case.

    My guess is that he didn’t realize until Bondi and his lawyers had a sitdown with him sometime earlier this year just how bad it looked in those files. That’s when the furious backpeddaling and stonewalling about releasing them began.

  162. 162.

    catclub

    @HinTN: ​
     

    I think it’s money laundering and the leverage the knowledge thereof gives the holder of said knowledge.

    Well, I agree there is plenty of money laundering.
    But Trump is tremendously vain. There are pictures that make him look fat with a small dick. That is why he wants this to go away.
    He knows he would beat any money laundering rap.

  163. 163.

    jonas

    @Jackie: Don’t some MAGA members of the Village People actually perform at his rallies?

    Trump does have a weird nostalgic fascination with disco music, probably remembering the coke-fueled orgies at Studio 54 back in the day.

  165. 165.

    Betty

    @XeckyGilchrist: There is an R vote coming in from Tennessee soon to raise the number needed on the petition. There is an argument that that special election is what Johnson is holding out for.

  168. 168.

    jonas

    @catclub:  He knows he would beat any money laundering rap.

    He’d probably argue that his presidential immunity for “official acts” is retroactive to 1978.

  170. 170.

    Geoduck

    Oval Office fainting update: They dragged the poor guy away and resumed the blather about healthcare. RFK Jr is right back in front of the camera and the Shaitgibbon is slumped in his chair like he was the one who passed out.

  171. 171.

    Jackie

    @Betty:

    There is an R vote coming in from Tennessee soon to raise the number needed on the petition.

    Won’t the special election in Texas (headed for a runoff between two democrats) neutralize the TN vote? Plus following Tues tsunami, is that seat guaranteed to remain in republican hands?

  173. 173.

    TONYG

    @jonas: Again:  It’s not that the mainstream media is useless.  It’s that the mainstream media is the CORPORATE MEDIA, and it is in the interest of the corporate media for the destructive acts of the Republican Party to succeed.  The corporate multi-billionaires own both the media and the Republican Party.  It’s all one power structure.

  174. 174.

    Timill

    @Jackie: TN-07 is R+10. The last 2 elections have seen R wins with 60% of the votes.

    Our ex-daughter-in-law and her family are there, so we’ve been encouraging her to get out and vote.

  175. 175.

    Ruckus

    @jonas:

    Exactly.

    It’s difficult to tell what he’s thinking/contemplating because his brain is not a reasonable model.

    My point is that you are correct. The problem is that he seemingly has zero normal like human concepts. He’s above the rest of humanity, just ask him. Of course the evidence doesn’t show what he believes, because that’s impossible, because he believes he is the highest form of human life. I believe the common term is egomaniac. Just one of his faults of course but it is one that can cause a lot of issues – and has for him. The common idea is that he thinks he’s not just special but extremely special. And he is, but in no way close to the special he thinks he is. Because special can mean especially good or especially not so much. He’s version #2.

  178. 178.

    trollhattan

    Cool story, bro.

    Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee (R) released a new video aimed at New York City business owners, urging them to consider moving to the south and saying Tennessee is open for business.

    Did they at all workshop “Move from your statistically safe city to a neo-Confederate crimefest” before settling for “open for business”?

  180. 180.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Greene: “I will praise Nancy Pelosi. She had an incredible career for her party. I served under her speakership in my first term in Congress and I’m very impressed at her ability to get things done. I wish we could get things done for our party like Nancy Pelosi was able to deliver for her party.”

    I’m quoting MTG. What is even happening?

  181. 181.

    Hoodie

    @Ruckus: Pretty typical NPD behavior, denies reality to protect his fragile ego.  Subconsciously he knows that he’s a worthless piece of shit, probably what his father constantly told him and he got bupkis from his detached mother to counter that.

  182. 182.

    Jackie

    @Timill:

    TN-07 is R+10. The last 2 elections have seen R wins with 60% of the votes.

    I just read this article, and was ready to post this! ;-)

    A Republican has been ousted in a Pennsylvania borough that has voted for Republican Party presidential candidates for 113 years.

    Beaver County elected Democratic Lincoln Kretchmar as the new mayor on November 4. In doing so, the Democrats broke the GOP’s 113-year winning streak in the borough.

    newsweek.com/republican-ousted-in-pennsylvania-borough-that-has-voted-gop-for-113-years-11001330

    As I said, after Tues, republicans can’t take any assumed “safe seat” for granted!

  184. 184.

    Hoodie

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m thinking MTG knows something and is figuring out an exit strategy.   Rumor is that she has delusions of running for president and is pissed at Trump because he wouldn’t support a run against Ossoff.

  186. 186.

    Deputinize America

    @trollhattan:

    LOL – (in soft Tennesseee drawl) “Sure, your talent will hate moving here and the only reason why any of us prosper at all was for a massive subsidy to the trailer trash rural moochers of this state in the form of the TVA, but let us inform you repeatedly of the dual kingship of Our Lords ‘n Saviors Jesus Christ and Donald Trump….”

  188. 188.

    Bupalos

    @Cluttered Mind: This isn’t a sex scandal. What’s at issue is whose side Trump is on. He’s already irreparably damage by this, not by what has or has not come out, but that more and more of the right leaning conspiracists understand him not to be delivering on the promise, and now to be in on the coverup. It’s a betrayal that goes right to the heart of the Trump myth, not a matter of being “gross.

    No one has more to lose from this than Trump.

  189. 189.

    Scout211

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: What is even happening?

    MTG really seems to hate Speaker Johnson.  Some jackals (who have better memories of these things than I do) say she wanted My Kevin to be the speaker.  She goes after Pastor Johnson all the time, especially lately.  But she lays off Trump.

  191. 191.

    Hoodie

    @trollhattan: I’ve heard that Californians are moving back from Austin because Texas is generally a cultural and infrastructure disappointment, so imagine NYers moving to Tennessee.  These people are delusional.

  192. 192.

    Deputinize America

    @Old School:

    If supermajority GOP governance is so great, why aren’t Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and Tennessee the economic heart of America, driving development and innovation?

  193. 193.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @JML:

    Even the historians might never know about some of Nancy Pelosi’s best work. The outcomes, sure, but how she did it? We may never know.

  194. 194.

    Jackie

    @Hoodie: MTG’s delusions may not be that delusional; She is adored by MAGA. I’d remind democrats we all thought FFOTUS didn’t have a snowball’s to win the Primary in ‘16 – let alone the General Election.

    I’m just saying that while WE think she’s bat-crazy…

  195. 195.

    Geminid

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: A couple days ago,  Democratic House staffer Adam Fritschner reposted this from Rep. Greene:

       Excited to have taken the Amtrak train from Philadelphia to New york City.

    And the number one issue I hear from my wonderful district in Georgia all the way upto NY is, “get us some health care that is affordable!”

    Amen! i agree! I’m trying!

    Where is the Republican plan?

    Fritscher asked:

       Who are you and what have you done with Marjorie Taylor Greene?

  201. 201.

    jonas

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I think she’s more aware than most of her brain-dead colleagues that there will be a post-Trump GOP and she wants to be the last one standing on top of the rubble heap when that time comes. The one true MAGA Republican who saw through the Trump bullshit and kept the flame alive.

  202. 202.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: My take is that many people are comfortable with their image of Rep. Greene as an ignorant buffoon, which she was her first term in Congress. It can be challenging to believe that someone like Greene could learn and evolve.

  205. 205.

    Jeffro

    @me: woot!

    let that be a lesson to malicious MAGA prosecutors everywhere…you can’t have a sandwich ‘explode’ and still somehow land, wrapped, at an officer’s feet

  206. 206.

    Jackie

    @Geminid: Again see Trump. MTG doesn’t need to change and evolve to get the MAGA vote. They love her as she is – including her Qanon tendencies.

    I’m only saying democrats would be idiotic to think she’s not a possible candidate. Especially as a lot of FFOTUS supporters hate and distrust Vance and Rubio.

    Time will tell. Thankfully LOTS will happen politically between now and 2028.

  211. 211.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @me: If they had charged him with a low level misdemeanor, he probably would have pleaded out or been found guilty.

  212. 212.

    Kirklin

    I’ve previously suggested it’s a record of live boys and dead girls. I’ve been working up to what might be worse in the eyes of Trump in particular and enough people of power that they’re going along with Trump.

    Candidates (one or more and only a starting place) in my mind include:

    • Actual snuff film records
    • Actual financial tracking records naming a couple dozen MotU – Thiel? Musk? Koch?
    • Pillow secrets – that is, spies collecting spilling secrets after sex has a very long tradition

    Actually, it’s the last that seems most probable to me. Along with a discovery that trump was one of the collectors along with the Epsteins, and that they were selling particularly tasty secrets (or those that needed released to keep the blackmail victims in line) to foreign interests / highest bidder.

  213. 213.

    no body no name

    My take is that MTG actually believed MAGA was about helping the working class, taking on elites, and taking on pedophiles.  What we are seeing is the wrath of someone who realizes they were had.

  215. 215.

    tam1MI

    @Betty: There is an R vote coming in from Tennessee soon to raise the number needed on the petition. There is an argument that that special election is what Johnson is holding out for.

    Would be a darn shame if that special election followed the pattern of the ones we just had and a Dem successfully flipped the seat… 😁

  217. 217.

    Archon

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: When Trump blocked her from running for senate, MTG realized she has gone as far as she can go in the Republican Party acting like an absolute loon so she is testing out the new strategy called, “act like a normal human being”.

  218. 218.

    Jackie

    Speaking of Epstein: RawStory has accompanying video.

    Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ) set up a table outside Speaker Mike Johnson’s office to push the claim that he was refusing to swear in Rep.-elect Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ) because she would be the final vote needed on a petition to release files related to sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

    During the Thursday protest, Ansari sat behind a table, which was attached to a sign, reading, ”Mike Johnson is starving families and gutting healthcare to cover up the Epstein files… CHANGE MY MIND.”

    According to Ansari, a staffer from the speaker’s office turned up the volume on a nearby television to drown her out.

     

  221. 221.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: Greene may not have needed to evolve to win MAGA votes, but that does not mean she could not evolve anyway. And Greene understands that there will be a post-MAGA world, maybe sooner rather than later, and she intends to thrive in it.

    Maybe not as a Presidential candidate in 2028, but she is relatively young and has plenty of time for that. And if Greene ever wants to win statewide office in Georgia, she needs to build an image as a more pragmatic Republican. Unlike some other states, Brian Kemp has kept the Georgia party firmly in the grip of the Chamber of Commerce/Country Club set, which fits that state’s electorate.

  224. 224.

    Bupalos

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ah, that’s disappointingly objective. I thought it might be about needing different kinds of talented candidates to speak to different constituencies and not doing this national party policing on who is and is not acceptable based on proper tattoo management protocols for twenty-somethings.

  226. 226.

    JoyceH

    @la_caterina: The grand jury refused to return a felony indictment, so Pirro went with misdemeanor, and couldn’t even get that!

    From the Post:

    Judge Carl J. Nichols instructed the jury that to convict Dunn, they would have to find he acted forcibly and generated a “reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm.”

    Dunn’s attorneys said Lairmore was “very heavily armed” and with a group of law enforcement officers, in addition to wearing the bulletproof vest. “If that vest … is going to keep you safe from military rifle fire, it is certainly going to keep you safe from a sandwich,” Shroff said.

     

  233. 233.

    XeckyGilchrist

    @JoyceH: “If that vest … is going to keep you safe from military rifle fire, it is certainly going to keep you safe from a sandwich,”

    But HE DEFIED MY WILL!

    and I could smell the mustard and onions!

  234. 234.

    Scout211

    NBC had fun with their news story:

    Jurors showed no appetite for the Justice Department’s case against “sandwich guy,” the D.C. resident who chucked a Subway sandwich at the chest of a federal officer, finding him not guilty on Thursday after several hours of deliberations.

    The jury — which feasted on sandwiches for lunch on Thursday, according to a person familiar with jury lunches — deliberated the charges for several hours on Wednesday and Thursday before delivering the verdict.

    . . .

    In closing arguments, defense attorney Sabrina Shroff argued that a sandwich could not and did not cause harm.

    “This case, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is about a sandwich,” she said.

  237. 237.

    Scout211

    WTF?

    FBI Tries to Unmask Owner of Infamous Archive.is Site

    The FBI is attempting to unmask the owner behind archive.today, a popular archiving site that is also regularly used to bypass paywalls on the internet and to avoid sending traffic to the original publishers of web content, according to a subpoena posted by the website. The FBI subpoena says it is part of a criminal investigation, though it does not provide any details about what alleged crime is being investigated. Archive.today is also popularly known by several of its mirrors, including archive.is and archive.ph.

    The subpoena, which was posted on X by archive.today on October 30, was sent by the FBI to Tucows, a popular Canadian domain registrar. It demands that Tucows give the FBI the “customer or subscriber name, address of service, and billing address” and other information about the “customer behind archive.today.” 

    “THE INFORMATION SOUGHT THROUGH THIS SUBPOENA RELATES TO A FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BEING CONDUCTED BY THE FBI,” the subpoena says. “YOUR COMPANY IS REQUIRED TO FURNISH THIS INFORMATION. YOU ARE REQUESTED NOT TO DISCLOSE THE EXISTENCE OF THIS SUBPOENA INDEFINITELY AS ANY SUCH DISCLOSURE COULD INTERFERE WITH AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW.”

    The subpoena also requests “Local and long distance telephone connection records (examples include: incoming and outgoing calls, push-to-talk, and SMS/MMS connection records); Means and source of payment (including any credit card or bank account number); Records of session times and duration for Internet connectivity; Telephone or Instrument number (including IMEI, IMSI, UFMI, and ESN) and/or other customer/subscriber number(s) used to identify customer/subscriber, including any temporarily assigned network address (including Internet Protocol addresses); Types of service used (e.g. push-to-talk, text, three-way calling, email services, cloud computing, gaming services, etc.)”

    This article and link provided by archive.ph

  241. 241.

    cmorenc

    @hueyplong:

    @Josie: The classified docs at Mar a Lago story teaches that Trump is willing to do absurd and desperate things to avoid release of the presumably  much worse stuff in the Epstein files. I’d bet a lot more than I can afford to lose that Trump has something awful on Johnson and that’s in part why the whiny cipher is the Speaker.

    Trump’s retention of a treasure trove of national security docs at MAL was mainly about his malignantly narcissistic ego being unable to let go of the notion that he should still be POTUS.  It was a gesture of selfishly defiant subversive dominance that was reinforceed by GOP Senators and Congresspeople and GOP power-brokers visiting him a MAL in the month after Trump parted DC, to pay homage to his continuing hold on the GOP base.  I don’t think his retention of national security docs had anything to do with the Epstein file material.  Recall that post-Presidential Trump retained the files at a time when Johnson was still a relatively unknown back-bencher, and had not yet emerged as a potential candidate for speakership.

    Mike Johnson’s total subservience to Trump over preventing release of the Epstein files can simply be explained by the fact that former back-bencher Johnson’s hold on the speakership is entirely at the will of Trump to maintain or else abruptly demote Johnson again to a back-bencher with little influence or power.  Johnson faces the dilemma that ending the shutdown will require him to call the House back in session, which will also mean the discharge petition will immediately gain enough signatures to force release of the Epstein files, unless the D caucus is so feckless as to allow a vote on a shutdown resolution to occur without Johnson first swearing in Grijalva.

  242. 242.

    Bill Arnold

    @Geminid:

    It can be challenging to believe that someone like Greene could learn and evolve.

    My impression is that she has started exploring information outside the GOP/RW echo chambers.
    If so, good that she is finding her own way. Orthodoxy is boring.

  244. 244.

    hueyplong

    @cmorenc: I also don’t think the Mar A Lago docs had anything to do with Epstein.  What I’m saying is that if he did it with them, he’ll damn well do it with actual Epstein docs.

  245. 245.

    cmorenc

    @Bill Arnold:

    My impression is that she has started exploring information outside the GOP/RW echo chambers.
    If so, good that she is finding her own way. Orthodoxy is boring.

    We are in strange times indeed that MTG is emerging as a relatively sensible, moral figure in the GOP caucas, and Bill Kristol is actually a voice of sensibility rather than always-wrong.

  247. 247.

    Jackie

    @cmorenc:

    We are in strange times indeed that MTG is emerging as a relatively sensible, moral figure in the GOP caucas, and Bill Kristol is actually a voice of sensibility rather than always-wrong.

    The Twilight Zone is real!

  250. 250.

    hueyplong

    @Gin & Tonic: There is a Hague Service Convention that governs the service of several types of subpoenas in foreign countries.  My sole experience with service of subpoenas abroad involved civil litigation in which the parties worked out a deal governing discovery, so I’m not the guy to get into the weeds on the Hague stuff.

  251. 251.

    cmorenc

    @hueyplong:

    @cmorenc: I also don’t think the Mar A Lago docs had anything to do with Epstein.  What I’m saying is that if he did it with them, he’ll damn well do it with actual Epstein docs.

    I agree that Trump’s resistance to admitting the existence of or turning over National Security docs proves he is cabable of trying to conceal or destroy them –  which rasies a key implication: there’s got to be some near-insurmountable practical reason inhibiting Trump and his hyperpartisan minions like Patel from either simply destroying the Epstein material, or else selectively purging them to only include Democrats and some select GOP figures out of Trump’s favor.

  252. 252.

    Interesting Name Goes Here

    @cmorenc: Dead man drops, perhaps?  Any attempts to destroy or tamper with the real deals triggers the genuine articles getting sent to everybody?

    Sounds Hollywoodish, but at this point, stranger and more ridiculous things have happened.

  253. 253.

    hueyplong

    @cmorenc: Yes, it’s odd that a guy who recognizes no authority other than his own hasn’t managed to deep-six everything harmful.  I readily admit that I don’t understand the concept of damaging Epstein files materials (a) existing and (b) continuing to exist.  My curiosity grows and grows because I don’t read enough espionage novels to generate a working theory.

  255. 255.

    Citizen Alan

    @Jackie:  MTG may have higher ambitions than Representative from Possum Holler, Georgia, but at the end of the day, she has to grapple with the fact that her base (and the base of the entire GOP) is dominated by people who absolutely believe that no woman should ever be in a position of authority over a man.

  260. 260.

    chbnna

    Has anyone asked the question why they (R’s, Trump) don’t just burn or shred all the evidence? I mean if it’s that bad and they don’t seem to care about the law, why not just destroy the evidence? Unless it’s everywhere? Too many people have seen it?

  261. 261.

    Timill

    @hueyplong: @Interesting Name Goes Here:

    My guess would be that there is no one collection of “Epstein Files” but that investigations were pursued by federal and state authorities in (at least) New York and Florida*, and they sent each other copies of what they had found.

    Thus, Trump can’t know what is in the union of the sets, and he doesn’t control some of the collections.

    So an attempt to provide an incomplete publication might spur some other authorities into publishing what they have, which is not a risk he wants to take.

    * I gather there was a ranch in NM, as well as the island in the USVI, and probably others.

  263. 263.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I know! She is is acting quite rational these days on certain issues, like ACA subsidies. My husband suggested that she has has her fill of R misogyny in the House, especially since she does not conform to the inflatable Barbie beauty requirement for R women.

  264. 264.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Hoodie: I know! I have heard about people moving to Indiana, for example, because of lower house prices, and I think, yeah, but then you’re living in Indiana. So not worth it.

  269. 269.

    Geminid

    @chbnna: That would be a difficult task. Trump would have to take physical possession of the files first– though it would have to be his agents because he is not up to the physical skullduggery.

    Right now the files are in the FBI’s hands. So he would have to rely on Pam Bondi and/or Kash Patel at least to assist him in multiple felonies. Plus,some if not most of the material is on computer hard drives, and Trump’s agents could not be sure if they got them all.

    So there is high risk exposure for anyone helping out. And anyone helping Trump would have to wonder, “How long will this guy be around to protect me?”

  270. 270.

    Jackie

    @Citizen Alan:

    but at the end of the day, she has to grapple with the fact that her base (and the base of the entire GOP) is dominated by people who absolutely believe that no woman should ever be in a position of authority over a man.

    But, should the two presidential candidates both be women?

    I do take your point, but who expected FFOTUS to not only win the republican primary, but the presidency, to boot? Although, he was running against a woman…

  271. 271.

    Kirklin

    @Omnes Omnibus: As I said, all or some and more.

    To digress slightly, I’m enough of an SF/Fantasy fan I keep wondering if we’re in one of those terrible “things man was not meant to know” situations. The government knows these things and keeps them quiet but we the people would just go nuts if we know. And in all those tales there’s this macguffin that those who know keep trying to hide.

    So, proof of alien invaders (“they live”)? Lovecraft’s documentaries? The Seadh are living on Maple Street?

  278. 278.

    Chris T.

    @Hoodie:

    I’ve heard that Californians are moving back from Austin because Texas is generally a cultural and infrastructure disappointment …

    Yes. They also discover that Texas’ claim of “low taxes” (because there’s no personal income tax) is a lie. The actual effective tax rate depends on a lot of factors, but see finance.yahoo.com/news/think-texas-cheaper-tax-burden-161359267.html where they suggest the median TX effective tax rate is about 3 to 4% higher.

    End result: worse weather, same traffic, poorer cultural experience, less interesting nearby natural beauty (west TX has Big Bend but it’s very far away, worse than going to the Sierras), all for lower salaries and the same or higher costs (depending on personal circumstances, Federal tax rates, etc).

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