The one plus side of NPR 24/7 is that I heard an interesting movie review of the new Wes Anderson movie, Moonrise Kingdom, which has Bruce Willis and Frances McDormand in it, along with the usual Wes Anderson people. The reviewer said that he could see why some people loved it, and did a very good job of describing its cinematographic merits, but said he found it twee and annoying, like all Wes Anderson movies.
I also find them twee and annoying, though I liked Steve Zissou because I liked the Brazilian versions of David Bowie songs. Do you guys like the Wes Anderson stuff? I know people who love it. How about movies more generally where a bunch of stars come in to do small roles as some kind of indie labor of love?
Legalize
I love Bottle Rocket, Rushmore, and the Royal Tenenbaums. I sort of tuned out after that.
Dave
Rushmore is great.
Raven
Check the cast in Stardust Memories, we watched it again last night and there are some interesting folks that pop up.
blackfrancis
Rushmore was excellent, Tennebaums was good. After that, they all seemed to sound the same.
scav
Doubt it counts as Indie, but Branagh’s Hamlet had people wandering in for smallish parts.
Boots Day
Wes Anderson movies are basically novels for middle-schoolers from the early 1970s, done up for adults. The ultimate Wes Anderson project would be a big-screen version of “From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankwiler.”
That said, I love ’em. Maybe the best Anderson movie is “The Hotel Chevalier,” which was the short he put in as sort of a prologue to “The Darjeeling Limited.” It’s also probably the most grown-up thing he’s done.
DougJ, Head of Infidelity
@blackfrancis:
I hated Tenenbaumgs. I’m a Gwynneth-phobe though and I don’t love Luke Wilson either.
jon
They all have moments of genius mixed with things that are so… personal and cathartic and suggestive of “having issues” that I understand why some people just can’t like them. I think The Fantastic Mr Fox” is his best work. The freedom he had to make his sets and images using puppets was amazing.
Also, his movies’ soundtracks are the best. He’s better than Tarantino in that arena.
gogol's wife
I can’t even make it through reviews of these movies. This latest one sounds just horrible.
different-church-lady
I found that reviewer himself twee annoying.
Maybe I’m just cranky this week.
DougJ, Head of Infidelity
@different-church-lady:
I did too, but I still thought he did a good job with the review.
Stuck in the Funhouse
One of the weirdest movies ever made, imo. The entire time I was watching, I wanted to turn it off, but somehow couldn’t, I guess out of some morbid curiosity of what nutty scene and dialogue might come next. A perfect vehicle for Bill Murray, though, imo, and his brand of wackiness. And I like anything with Cate Blanchett in it. And the final scene in the sub was just off the surreal chart.
This father needs a baby
Jewish Steel
Yeah, I liked Bottle Rocket. Rushmore was fine, if overrated. I bailed after Steve Zissou.
TheMightyTrowel
@Boots Day: mmm a mixed up files film by wes a?
I would watch the hell out of that.
The Dangerman
OT, but can someone explain why the Righty Blogs (I peruse a few in the interest of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer) are going apeshit over some Dude named Kimberlin? Also, somehow, Markos (of GOS fame) is getting slammed over it. Very weird shit even for the addled minds from the Right (or, perhaps, I need more caffeine this Saturday)….
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: Word. I haven’t seen a single one. Current obsession is Sherlock, I have read all the books twice (when I was in my teens and more recently) and find the current take interesting. It also helps that BC is easy on the eyes and dresses sharp. I prefer his Sherlock to Jeremy Brett. Though I liked that version as well.
pjcamp
Oh hell no! I hated Zissou. Bill Murray looked like he was going through life bored. Which I think was the point. Haven’t seen any others and won’t. Nobody who’d make a movie like that could possibly be any good. I’ve got better things to spend my time on. I’d rather watch a Lucy rerun than Wes Anderson. And I Hate Lucy.
James Gary
@Boots Day:
The ultimate Wes Anderson project would be a big-screen version of “From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankwiler.”
God, I hope not. As a kid I loved that book’s hard-headedly pragmatic whimsy, which in my opinion is about 180 degrees from the fluffy aimlessness of every Anderson movie except “Rushmore” (admittedly great.)
tom
I don’t have much use for Wes Anderson, but Frances McDormand will always have a place of honor for, among other things, her part in Fargo.
DougJ, Head of Infidelity
@Stuck in the Funhouse:
I liked Jeff Goldblum in it too. I normally associate him with coked-out mid 80s appearances on Arsennio, but I liked him in this.
Dusty
I think Owen Wilson’s contributions to the writing were more crucial than anybody appreciated. Those first three films had more warmth and humanistic than the films that followed and Anderson’s only decent female characters were in those first three. Even RT, which had minimal writing help from Wilson, is notably more grounded in emotional reality than the subsequent LIFE AQUATIC.
Anderson’s skilled at the visuals, but he needs stronger writing partners to guide him away from his colder impulses. It doesn’t help that he’s directing his actors to leech all personality out of their performances. They might as well be dolls for all the emotion he gets out of them. Not that his actors have ever been florid in that regard, but Murray in RUSHMORE at least showed subtle flashes of emotion and Hackman was practically hamming it up in RT.
Maybe MOONRISE KINGDOM is different, I don’t know, but I find Anderson frustrating. There was such promise in those first three.
blackfrancis
@DougJ, Head of Infidelity: I can understand why people would. I saw it at a really crappy time in my life, so there were bits that looked like a reflection.
or to put it another way,
http://youtu.be/PVv99M1fqYg
I obviously need more than 4 hours sleep.
rlrr
The one plus side of NPR 24/7
Consider yourself lucky. With my parents, it’s Fox “News” almost 24/7 (with occasional breaks for NCIS and golf).
blackfrancis
Some of Bill Murray’s finest work
http://vimeo.com/davidwaltonsmith/bmurray
Suffern ACE
Ok. Since this is a movie thread has anyone seen Bernie yet? I’m intrigued by the Jack Black Shirley McClaine pairing.
Raven
See if you like the t-shirt from our Y’s 100 mile swim club!
eta don’t tell my copyright lawyer brother!
Raven
@blackfrancis: He’s great in the Razor’s Edge. He made Ghostbusters to get the dough to finance it.
blackfrancis
@Raven: Well, I obviously meant other than the Razor’s Edge. I thought that was a given.
pacem appellant
Bottle Rocket was almost unwatchable, and The Darjeeling Limited was a waste (except for the soundtrack). I know that his fans think he’s being smart, but other than Rushmore and The Royal Tanenbaums, I’ve yet to find something else to love about his too-clever-by-half plots and dialogue.
I heard of a movie reviewer comment that TDL was the best thing he’d ever made and the only thing he’d made that she liked, but I was completely of the opposite opinion. It was a movie full of contrivances, wasted talent, unlovable odd-balls, and almost characterless (except for the kids-die-ex-machina scene which was supposed to show us their growth, but acheived the opposite effect, showing that the characters hadn’t changed at all).
One thing though that I gotta say about Wes Anderson movies, is that they are so fun to talk about! They seem to drive movie goers and indy fans into veritable fits of glee or fury. That’s talent, I say.
Steeplejack
The Royal Tenenbaums is the greatest J.D. Salinger movie never made.
Anderson’s twee-osity can be a little annoying, but, hey, sometimes you have to cross the line to know where the line is. I’ll take it as a welcome corrective to the spew of Hollywooden crap that engulfs us the majority of the time.
His song choices for his movies are usually impeccable.
Seu Jorge does some other good stuff, e.g., “E Depois.”
Emma Anne
I liked Royal Tenenbaums.
pacem appellant
@Boots Day: I thought that was TRT. They even have a flashback scene of the young Tanembaums hiding out in a museum (just like in the book). I have always considered TRT to be Anderson’s imaginative take on what happened to those kids when they grew up.
Steeplejack
@Raven:
Good movie. The part where Charlotte Rampling comes apart in jump-cuts has always stayed with me.
RalfW
I wanted to like Steve Zissou, I really did. I loved Jacques Cousteau shows and thought I’d get a good laugh out of a well done parody/homage. But twee and annoying really is about right.
Now, that said, I thought Royal Tenenbaums was great. Can’t really comment on any later Anderson films…
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
Love it or hate it, The Life Aquatic gets props for having the best Buckaroo Banzai homage, ever.
Joshua James
RUSHMORE is pure genius, and ROYAL TENEBAUMS is pretty close and dammed great… loved BOTTLE ROCKET, tho’ it’s definitely not for everyone…
Nylund
Bottle Rocket: Kinda quirky and fun
Rushmore: All in all, good movie.
Royal Tennenbaums: I don’t get the love. Too much time spent on imagery, not enough time spent making the J.D. Salinger “Glass Family” type story all that interesting to me.
Life Aquatic: I liked it.
Darjeeling Limited: Did nothing for me.
Fantastic Mr. Fox: It’s puppets so the quirky/twee thing actually seems appropriate. I think it’s a wonderful movie, probably my favorite of all his films.
geg6
I’ll take a Wes Anderson film over a superheroes movie ANY FUCKING DAY. Loved Bottle Rocket, Royal Tenenbaums, and Rushmore, but really didn’t think much of The Aquatic Life. That’s a better record in my book than all the superhero movies put together. I could only tolerate Ironman and did really like The Dark Knight (if that’s the title of the first one with Christian Bale) but the second one in that series sucked donkey balls. I’ll probably see the third only because it was shot in Pittsburgh and I can alleve my boredom with trying to recognize local landmarks.
Corner Stone
Rushmore convinced me to never watch another one of his films.
kth
Wes Anderson’s films aren’t exactly a guilty pleasure for me, but similar: I don’t try to persuade non-enthusiasts to like them, because obviously it’s hopeless.
handsmile
Well, not for the first time on a BJ thread devoted to movies, I find myself very much of a minority opinion (the Jean-Luc Godard thread comes to mind).
Wes Anderson is one of the most individual and creative talents to have emerged among American filmmakers for the past generation (Kelly Reichardt is another). Bottlerockets was a remarkable debut; Rushmore further demonstrated Anderson’s writing and directing abilities; The Royal Tenenbaums is quite simply a masterpiece. If sheer delight does not well up in you while watching the sequence of escapades between Royal Tenenbaum (Gene Hackman!) and his grandsons, then something is wrong with your soul. Also, as Steeplejack noted above (#30), Anderson’s soundtrack selections are unsurpassed throughout his oeuvre.
All that said, however, his critical success has come at a creative price. The Life Aquatic is disappointingly overblown and The Darjeeling Limited is often unwatchable. The budgets for Anderson’s films have exploded, many of the most prominent and well-paid actors are clamoring to be cast, and the commercial expectations have consequently risen.
My enormous respect and appreciation for Wes Anderson’s singular artistry makes me eager to see Moonrise Kingdom. I’m now uncertain, however, whether his aesthetic is structured to withstand that pressure.
MikeJ
Given a choice between the worst Wes Anderson film and the best Michael Bay, I’ll go with Wes. Yes, he can be a bit precious but the result general looks as if a bit of thought went into it. I never read comics so that means 90% of the movies made in the US hold no interest for me.
Raven
@Steeplejack: Yea and somehow I hadn’t remembered it!
Steeplejack
@kth:
This is a good point. I have come to grips with the fact that 40 years of watching foreign/indie movies has moved my taste way out of the mainstream.
Sometimes I think American movie tastes are stuck in a place sort of like food tastes in the ’50s, when “foreign food” meant Italian (spaghetti! lasagna!) and maybe French on that exotic trip you took to New York that one time. Thai? Ethiopian? Never heard of it.
Other times I think it’s mostly the viewing-in-theaters business that’s messed up. Everything is geared toward big openings and the youth market, so you get superhero movies, horror movies and Vin Diesel cars-going-sideways movies. But other movies are shoehorned into that same Hollywooden production environment, so all too often the only “indie” or “serious” movies that come through are Merchant-Ivory stuff or big-star vanity projects.
I keep waiting for a viable straight-to-DVD (or straight-to-streaming) production model to arise for “serious” films.
Violet
I love Rushmore, mostly because of Bill Murray.
JGabriel
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Boots Day:
Anderson already ripped off that one for the scene in The Royal Tenenbauns where two of the kids go camping in the museum for a couple weeks.
And yes, I like Anderson’s films. What people call a “twee” quality is really more of a New Yorker magazine sensibility, and I’ve been a New Yorker fan ever since discovering Donald Barthelme when I was about 13 or 14.
.
burnspbesq
@scav:
Jack Lemmon was amazing in his one scene.
burnspbesq
@The Dangerman:
Since this is a movie thread, I will answer with a line from one of the three best American movies of all time.
“it’s Chinatown, Jake.”
pseudonymous in nc
I like The Royal Tenenbaums a lot, and though I have trouble with American adaptations of Roald Dahl, I think he did a good job with Fantastic Mr Fox. The Life Aquatic was forgettable.
I haven’t seen The Darjeeling Limited, but a friend whose opinion I trust basically says it works as a film if you stop watching half an hour from the end.
DougJ, Head of Infidelity
@burnspbesq:
When is Jack Lemmon not amazing?
handsmile
@JGabriel: (#46)
DONALD BARTHELME!
Coming across his name here may be the happiest happenstance of the day so far! I’ve now scurried to the bookshelves to add his stories to this weekend’s reading.
Thank you! You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
(I recall my surprise upon first learning that Barthelme was raised and spent much of his adult life in Texas. His sensibility seemed to come from a home planet several light-years away.)
Smiling Mortician
@burnspbesq: Charlton Heston as the Player King was inspired.
Tokyokie
I’m one of the few people who seems to have like The Darjeeling Limited, but then, it might have been his copious use of music from Lola Versus Powerman and the Money-Go-Round, which is probably my favorite rock album. (When people ask, Stones or Beatles, I answer, “Kinks!”) Sure, he’s an acquired taste and not especially deep, but I enjoy his off-kilter sense of humor. He uses Bill Murray better than anyone else seems to (except maybe Jim Jarmusch), and I find Murray’s oddball line readings in Anderson’s films to be consistently funny, a lot funnier than the gross-out humor that characterizes most of today’s film comedies. And Moonrise Kingdom seems to be populated with a lot of actors fully capable of oddball line readings. I’m really looking forward to seeing it, if for no other reason than virtually nothing else that’s out or coming to theaters soon, mainstream or indie. (Although I must say the Norwegian film Hodejegerne (Headhunters) is one of the best movies I’ve seen in years.)
Mino
@schrodinger’s cat: Ugh, this Sherlock reminds me of Numbers. Do not like.
Eric U.
@The Dangerman: thanks for bringing this up, it’s hilarious. The right wing bloggers have paranoid fantasies that this guy “targets” right wing bloggers and Markos refuses to repudiate it so he’s complicit.
Steeplejack
@DougJ, Head of Infidelity:
He has a tendency to chew the scenery, which works in comedy and works against him in drama. It really works in The Great Race.
skippy
i always want to like a wes anderson film when i go see it, but i am ultimately, and consistently, disappointed.
burnspbesq
@DougJ, Head of Infidelity:
Good Neighbor Sam?
JGabriel
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handsmile:
As was Anderson, coincidentally enough.
.
jake the snake
I have not seen Bottle Rocket though I have heard good things about it. I hated The Life Aquatic and could not make it through either The Royal Tennenbaums or Rushmore.
I hate the kind of “precious” movies that Anderson makes.
Give me “The City of Lost Children” or “Southland Tales” any day. I have become convinced that I am Linus in real life. “I love humanity, it is people I can’t stand.
satanicpanic
I love every one he’s done except Bottle Rocket, which I didn’t like, and Life Aquatic which I kind of liked. I don’t know how to describe it, but the way his movies look, the music, the acting, everything about them is pretty much perfect. It might be a Gen X thing.
wasabi gasp
I made it all the way through Rushmore, once. Possibly competed Tenenbaums, too, but now I feel like I’m bragging.
Phil P.
@tom: Agreed. I assume I must be missing one of DougJ’s lyrics references, because I can’t otherwise imagine why he would have chosen to pick on Frances McDormand for a post on Wes Anderson. Maybe the Coen bros, but not Wes Anderson, right?
Her performances in Blood Simple and Fargo are gonna keep her on my list of favorite actors pretty much in perpetuity. Absolutely brilliant.
Both of those are examples of extremely quirky and stylized movies that nonetheless shame Wes Anderson’s in terms of believable character development and motivation. Having said that, I’m with a bunch of commenters up-thread… I’ll happily take a Wes Anderson movie over the rest of the schlock out there, like any Bay movie, Twilight, any superhero movie (much as I love Downey), etc., etc. etc…. At least Anderson’s are interesting, even if occasionally annoying.
handsmile
@Tokyokie: (#53)
Another recommendation for Headhunters (though not as enthusiastic as yours). Scandinavian filmmakers are enjoying a creative/commercial renaissance, a matter not unrelated to the worldwide success of its crime fiction (more government funding, more private capital forthcoming).
If you’ve not already seem them, add A Boy with a Bike and Polisse to your list of other truly worthwhile current films.
(BTW, if you don’t mind disclosing, in what city do you view your films? From your comments on previous threads, you seem uncommonly familiar with foreign/independent/repertory movies.)
BGinCHI
@handsmile: Late to this thread, but this. Right on.
Rushmore is a perfect re-make of The Graduate in a world where that earlier film isn’t possible anymore.
DougJ, Head of Infidelity
@Phil P.:
Because she’s in this movie and I’ve always wanted to use this as a post title. I’ve been sitting on for three years and I got panicked that someone else would use it first.
Brachiator
Loved Rushmore, primarily because of Bill Murray and Olivia Williams. The movie had heart to offset the whimsy. I liked the parts I saw of Bottle Rocket, but grew bored with it and could not finish watching it.
The King of Twee is probably Whit Stillman, who did Metropolitan and the current Damsels in Distress.
The thing I love best about superhero movies is that they divert money from the seemingly endless stream of self absorbed indie films. I don’t care if an indie film was a labor of love if it ends up being a thankless chore to watch.
Branagh’s Hamlet sucked eggs. The Mad Max version with Mel Gibson is much better than one would expect, and the modern take with Ethan Hawke as Hamlet and Bill Murray as Polonious is very engaging.
Corner Stone
If I made a list of the top 5 movies I wish I could take back those hours of my life, Rushmore is on it.
The undisputed, impossible to be argued with, all time number 1 on that list is the two weeks I spent on Watchmen one night.
Joel
I liked Rushmore and Bottle Rocket, loved the Royal Tenenbaums, but after that, ambivalent on everything else….
DougJ, Head of Infidelity
@Brachiator:
Amen. I love some smaller films, but I hate the whole “this is art, motherfucker” thing.
I aslo agree on Branagh’s Hamlet. For me, the Olivier movie will probably never be topped.
Brachiator
@handsmile: I will probably be seeing Headhunters today or tomorrow. Thanks for the confirming recommendation. I think I may have missed The Kid With A Bike. It is no longer playing locally, and I am not sure where else it might be playing.
gogol's wife
@Brachiator:
I liked that Ethan Hawke Hamlet. No one else I know did.
BGinCHI
@gogol’s wife: It’s a good version. Michael Almereyda is a smart dude.
Anyone else see the movie Cedar Rapids? Very underrated. And talk about a great ensemble.
Lojasmo
@Corner Stone:
Anderson is sort of like Allen. Either you have the intellectual capacity to enjoy it, or you don’t
/gratuitous dig
WereBear
Wes Anderson demands that his audience bring a lot into watching it; if they engage with it they wind up feeling they have had a great experience.
But I can’t get in the door with his movies. Despite all the obvious fussing over tone and tempo they leave me cold and I don’t want to get to know them better. Am I supposed to come up with all the missing depth and storytelling and closure I’m not getting?
Yes, real life is smoke and mirrors and puzzling glimpses, but that is why we have art. To me, art is supposed to make the effort to cohere a lot of this puzzling stuff.
I get plenty of baffling, quirky, inconsistent idiots who I’m not sure will ever get a grip and do the right things in my real life. And I sure don’t like it.
Mnemosyne
I’m not a big Wes Anderson fan, but I did like Fantastic Mr. Fox. The only reason it wasn’t the best animated film of that year is because Coraline came out the same year. I think FFF and Rushmore are the only films of Anderson’s that I’ve managed to get all the way through.
@gogol’s wife:
G loves that version. It’s one of the few times that an age-appropriate Hamlet was cast as the lead. Hamlet always ends up being played by a middle-aged man like Olivier or Branaugh or Gibson, which makes the whole thing more than a little silly.
If we’re getting all Shakespearean, I know they did a version of “Richard III” on Broadway a few years ago starring Peter Dinklage. From the reviews I saw, he was apparently amazing (as usual) but the supporting cast wasn’t very good. I wonder if his success in “Game of Thrones” will inspire someone to try and make a movie or HBO version.
cay
Fantastic Mr. Fox!
Phil P.
@Brachiator:
Hmm. But this seems like an unfair assessment of indie stuff to me. Or maybe I really mean like it applies more frequently to mainstream schlock than to indie movies.
Against my better judgement, I actually saw the first Transformers movie. Holy frack that was torture–entirely impossible to become engaged with anybody or anything happening in that movie.
Undoubtedly I’m being wildly unfair by using Transformers as my choice of counterexample to a Wes Anderson movie, but for me, even sloppily executed indie quirk within a weak story/character framework has more of a chance of accidentally being interesting than a fair amount of mainstream stuff, which just has the weak character/story framework.
handsmile
@DougJ, Head of Infidelity: (#70)
Many many years ago, when I was a sculptor (the conventional tale of the garret-dwelling genius seeking to make it in the Big City Art World), I presented an exhibition of work entitled, “Danger: Art!”
Your phrase, “This is art, motherfuckers” is a principle I’ve tried to live up to professionally and personally ever since. Totebaggers are not only to be found in the world of politics.
Tokyokie
@handsmile: Live in Fort Worth, see movies at the Modern Art Museum here and the Angelika, Magnolia and Texas in Dallas. The Texas brings in the most edgy stuff (saw Dogtooth and I Saw the Devil there, for instance); the Angelika is pretty standard art-house fare (Hodejegerne and Elles playing there (among others) now); the Magnolia has veered closer to the mainstream (Bernie). The Death Star megaplex in Grapevine will bring in some Korean movies, which I try to support, but alas, it only ran Nameless Gangster for a week, and only at noon after Sunday, so I didn’t make it to that.
handsmile
@Mnemosyne: (#76)
I was hoping you would comment on this thread, given your wide-ranging familiarity (and professional experience iirc) with cinema. Evidently, our degrees of enthusiasm differ on Mr. Anderson.
Here’s one more vote for Almereyda’s version of Hamlet. it demonstrated well how even a rather radical interpretation of Shakespeare can be illuminating and instructive. Bill Murray as Polonius was a casting coup, and he was dependably brilliant.
It so happens that several nights ago, friends were discussing successful cinematic treatments of Shakespeare. A rough consensus emerged on Branagh’s Henry V and Kurosawa’s Throne of Blood. Peter Brook’s Lear, with Paul Scofield as the king, is my own favorite.
Corner Stone
@Lojasmo: Joan Allen? Sheese, I love her! I want to have all her babies.
What does she have to do with how badly Rushmore sucked the existential lifeforce out of me?
Mnemosyne
@handsmile:
You remember correctly — I was (briefly) professional, but it’s been 20 years. I keep meaning to get back to my Pre-Code blog and finish writing my pieces. The hard part is knowing where to start.
I’m actually fairly neutral on Anderson — I don’t hate him, but I don’t make a point of watching his movies. I think the criticisms of the female characters in his films are pretty valid. IMO, Sofia Coppola has a similar sensibility to Anderson’s but better female characters. I liked Marie Antoinette way more than I thought I would.
Brachiator
@Phil P.:
RE: I don’t care if an indie film was a labor of love if it ends up being a thankless chore to watch.
Hmm.
To the contrary, I don’t think that any film merits any special consideration just because it is indie. I don’t give a rat’s ass about mainstream vs indie films. I only care about good films.
Yeah, Transformers sucked, as did the more recent Battlship. Michael Bay is a competent filmmaker and knows how to play to his audience, but his films are craptastic. The Avengers on the other hand is well crafted and does more than just blow shit up on the screen.
I’ve known people who would automatically go see any French film which had been shown in certain upscale NY theaters no matter how good or shitty the film was. The worst of these poseurs would brag that they only films of any sort they would see we’re French films; otherwise they would only go to concerts or the theater.
Similarly, I know people who fawn over the most godawful, amateurish indie shit just because it is indie. And although I know it stemmed in part from disillusionment at having been passed over for promotion, I recall LA Times film critic Kevin Thomas praising an indie film that was so poorly constructed that you could see the boom mike hanging down in some scenes. Some shots were so poorly framed that you were drawn out of whatever was supposed to be happening. Other scenes were not lit properly and too dark, not because the director didn’t have enough money, but because he was incompetent. I’ve seen superior film school projects.
And I resent film critics who want me to spend my money on crappy indie films just because they think that the indie movement should be supported.
On the other hand, I will happily sing the praises of a movie that entertains, thrills, inspires, makes you laugh, makes you cry, and which does the job well, whether big budget or shoestring.
David
Well, I guess I’m an outlier, but I loved The Life Aquatic, the rest of his, not so much. I liked it almost as much as Ghost Dog, my favorite Jim Jarmusch. In theaters now, I would like to see Koreeda’s I Wish. His movie After Life was another of my indie favorites.
Brachiator
@handsmile:
There’s so much good stuff out there. I agree that Branagh’s Henry V is quite good.
Kurosawa hits it out of the park twice, with Throne of Blood and Ran, his re-imagining of Lear as a tale out of Japanese history. I like Peter Brook’s Lear, but prefer the tv version done by Laurence Olivier.
Orson Welle’s versions of Othello and Macbeth are flawed masterpieces (Olivier’s Othello is not very good at all).
Finally, Eric Rohmer’s A Tale of Winter is infused with the spirit of A Winter’s Tale, with a suitably Shakespearean plot turn.
Brachiator
BTW, there was a fun story in the UK Daily Mail (the link fails on my mobile browser) about Sherlock Holmes being depicted 254 times in film and tv.
Hamlet came in at second place, with 206 screen and tv depictions. It’s worth taking a look at the article, which has a great photo gallery of various actors decked out as Holmes, and lists many of the more noteworthy films and tv series.
handsmile
@Mnemosyne: (#83)
I hope it will be possible for you to revive your film blog (your commentary there would be worthwhile reading as well I trust). There must be more to life than knitting and bike-riding! :) (not that I’d know as I do neither.) As for where to start, what’t the last relevant movie you’ve seen? Film appreciation is temporally elastic.
@Brachiator: (#84)
For the most part, I’d subscribe to that doctrine of film criticism that you’ve nailed to the moviehouse doors. The minimum that I ask of any film is that it does not insult me. Consequently, I see fewer and fewer American mainstream movies.
(Grateful for your observation that The Avengers is “more than just blow shit up on the screen.” I’ve enjoyed some of Wheedon’s film/TV work, but was rather skeptical about this one.)
But perhaps to illustrate your point, earlier this week I finally saw Jacques Rivette’s celebrated film, Celine and Julie Go Boating. (While I suspect you may know this) Rivette is one of the titans of the French Nouvelle Vague, beloved by all card-carrying cineastes. His La Belle Noiseuse is among my very favorite films. As for this masterwork, let me say briefly and bluntly that I hope not to see a more tedious film for the rest of this year. It just kept getting worse over its 193 minutes (and I suffer for art so I don’t leave). Still trying (and reading some criticism) to make sense of its reputation. Until or unless that satori arrives, I consider watching that film an insulting experience.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Just start anywhere. The beauty of a blog is that is can be “episodic.” You can organize later–when you have material available to organize.
Carnival of Souls is on IFC tonight (4:15 a.m. EDT). For some reason I thought you might be interested. I haven’t seen it, but it looks interesting.
Also, TCM is running a bunch of Barbra Stanwyck movies next Tuesday. All from the ’30s, although only Baby Face (7:30 a.m. EDT) is pre-Code.
Steeplejack
@David:
After Life was really good. Haven’t thought about that in a while.
Have found myself jonesin’ for Edward Yang’s Yi Yi this last week. Need to see if I can dig up the DVD.
Steeplejack
@handsmile:
That’s Antonioni for me, at least in the early ’60s zone of L’Avventura, La Notte and L’Eclisse. Haven’t seen those in years, and occasionally I think I should give them another chance, but eventually the feeling goes away.
handsmile
@Steeplejack: (#89)
Carnival of Souls is a terrific American horror film made by a handful of clever people with the budget of a snapped shoestring. The horror is more state-of-mind than corporeal; uncanny might be an apt description. One favorite scene features a church organ performance by the film’s main character that could well have been composed by Olivier Messiaen.
If I still have any standing with you (having abundantly praised Bresson’s A Man Escaped), let me recommend this one also for your DVR (or for an insomniac).
BGinCHI
@handsmile: If you film buffs are still checking the thread, did any of you see the French film “Rapt” from last year?
I’d be interested to hear your take on it. It’s one of the most interesting and oddest thrillers I’ve ever seen.
Steeplejack
@handsmile:
I’ve got it tagged for the DVR. Still haven’t watched A Man Escaped. I was going to watch it a couple of nights ago, but Rififi butted in.
BGinCHI
@Steeplejack: Huge Dassin and J-P Melville fan here. JPM one of the most underrated filmmakers of all time.
Raven
@BGinCHI: How bout Hal Hartley?
Phil P.
@Brachiator: I’m with you 100%. I had (undoubtedly mis-)read you earlier as bringing a negative prejudgement to the table regarding indie films. I couldn’t care less who the “auteur” is and who provided the financing, what I’d like to see is a compelling, well-constructed entertainment that doesn’t make me regret expending time to watch it. My local film-fan crowd I could count on for good recommendations has shrunk over the years thanks to job relocations, parenting responsibilities, etc., and many critics I’ve thought to rely on instead fail for exactly the reasons you point out.
You’re not the first person to suggest that my all-superhero-movies-suck rubric is disproven by Avengers. Maybe I’ll check it out.
It wouldn’t be the first time my own negative prejudgement was wrong… I’ll second the positive assessments upthread of a couple of the Shakespeare adaptations: Branagh’s Henry V and Almeyerda’s Hamlet. I didn’t expect either to be particularly good. In fact I was dragged kicking and screaming to the latter by a friend and was very, very happily surprised.
BGinCHI
@Raven: I loved “Trust,” but that was a hundred years ago….
Steeplejack
@BGinCHI:
Yeah, tonight I’m probably watching Bob le Flambeur, which has been sitting on the DVR for ages. Rififi got me motivated.
BGinCHI
@Steeplejack: Such a great movie. I liked the remake with Nick Nolte too. Might be fun to watch back to back.
handsmile
@BGinCHI: (#93)
Never did see Rapt. It played only briefly here in the urban hellhole last year. Your recommendation certainly does gerard-pique my interest to see it.
Aussi, encore, encore, Jean-Pierre Melville!
(BTW, thanks for your compliment upthread; appreciate your comments.)
Aussitoo: Roberto Martinez, huh?
Steeplejack
@BGinCHI:
The Good Thief? I keep DVR’ing that and then erasing it because I haven’t watched it and I need the space. Maybe will now bump it up to Keep Code Alpha.
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Hmm, it’s on Sundance again next Thursday night. Will DVR again.
Edit fail. FYWP.
Arclite
Hated Tennenbaums (despite being a huge Gene Hackman fan), but I love Fantastic Mr. Fox.
For some reason, I find 12 year olds eloping creepy, but I admit I love the look of Moonrise Kingdom.
handsmile
@Raven: (#96)
Ah geez louise, I’ve been trying to get out of the apartment, and here you go bringing up Hal Hartley!
There is no filmmaker with whose sensibility I more identify. Man-crush doesn’t begin to describe it. Simple Men: game, set, and match.
One more thing: there may be no one whom I more want to be than the character that Martin Donovan portrays in all his Hartley movies.
BGinCHI
@handsmile: Give it a look. It’s an odd film. You have expectations based on supposed genre, but it doesn’t unfold as you’d think. That’s all I’ll say.
BGinCHI
@Steeplejack: Yes. It’s worth a watch if you haven’t seen it. Nolte is terrific. He’s probably sort of playing himself.
BGinCHI
@handsmile: Dance sequence and soundtrack to Simple Men. Nuff said.
Hartley is a good guitar player, too, and did a lot of his own music. Used to own the soundtrack or some of his music but it’s long gone.
Mnemosyne
@handsmile:
I’m starting to worry that I dated you in college. You didn’t go to USC circa early 90s and date a really neurotic slightly older woman, did you? If so, I apologize and I’m much less weird now.
If it wasn’t you, I did have a boyfriend in college who worshipped Hartley and tried to get me hooked on him as well. I liked Simple Men, but that was about it. I also hate most French films, so it may be a sensibility/personal taste thing.
@Steeplejack:
I’ve seen Carnival of Souls a couple of times because I’m a huge horror fan. It’s more psychological/spooky than all-out horrific, but it’s in that set of stylish low-budget horror films from the 1960s like Night of the Living Dead. If you like it, you might like Curtis Harrington’s Night Tide (starring a very young Dennis Hopper).
For the Pre-Code blog, I’ve watched No Man of Her Own (not the Barbara Stanwyck one!) a couple of times and have pretty extensive notes about it. I need to sit down, reread them, and figure out what I want to say about it. I’m developing some ideas about why some actors were able to survive the transition from Pre-Code to Production Code and how their performances changed to adapt to the new sensibility, but I’m not quite there yet.
Brachiator
@Steeplejack:
Anyone checking out these films may also want to take a look at the marvelous profile written by Anthony Lane in the 2007 New Yorker, “Lady Be Good.”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/30/070430fa_fact_lane
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
IMO, Baby Face is not Stanwyck’s best Pre-Code (I think Night Nurse is better), but it’s definitely one of the easiest to show people and make them understand what the differences are between the two eras. The whole confrontation with her father would have been impossible to show even two years later.
Phil P.
@handsmile: and @Raven too:
Seconded (thirded), a thousand times. A couple of the Hal Hartley movies are the only ones I ever wanted to actually livein, as much of a mess as the people in his movies are.
The dance sequence in Simple Men expressed something profound (I never could articulate exactly what, despite many attempts with friends who also saw the movie) about how I wanted my life to be.
Is Hartley still active…?
Larkspur
@DougJ, Head of Infidelity: @tom: I haven’t seen any Wes Anderson movies, but I love Frances McDormand. I’ve loved her since I saw her in a very short-lived TV series back in 1987, Leg Work. It starred Margaret Colin as a PI and McDormand as an ADA. I think it ran for ten episodes and then died. But I remembered Frances McDormand,and Margaret Colin, who has worked steadily over the years, a lot of TV and a certain amount of Lifetime movie stuff, but shoulda been a huge star.
Now I want to write a screenplay for them.
handsmile
@Mnemosyne: (#109)
No worries necessary! In the early 90s I was suffering through life in Boston (at MIT in fact, though not as a student). And with compliments to your G, I must say that while I did not have the pleasure then, I am enjoying getting to know a “less weird” Mnemosyne here and now.
But I am trying to wrap my head around your remark, “I also hate most French films,” as it’s an uncharacteristically blunderbuss appraisal from you. Perhaps to be developed at another time….
Mnemosyne
@handsmile:
It’s a bit of an overstatement, but I’ve never liked the French New Wave, and the rest of the output seems to pull from the worst aspects of that movement. They showed us Godard’s Week End in film school and it literally drove me from the theater — it’s the only film I ever walked out on in film school.
The breaking point for me was Le Trou, which supposedly has this amazing, existential ending that I saw coming from a mile away and made me want to punch the director in the face.
I do like Truffaut, though. And … that’s about it. I don’t mind pre-New Wave like Clouzot or Renoir or Carne, but I can’t stand the frickin’ New Wave.
handsmile
@Phil P.: , @BGinCHI:
“Hot fuckin’ Tuna!”
Thrilled to learn that I am not alone in rhapsodizing over that Simple Men dance sequence. Inexpressibly joyful and profound, or as DougJ might say, “This is art, motherfuckers.”
is Hartley active? He does seem to have fallen off the planet since releasing Fay Grim in the mid-2000s (that film itself a sequel to his most acclaimed and successful work, Henry Fool. Last year, he presented a short film, “Meanwhile,” at film festivals, but as far as I know it was never even screened publicly in NYC.
Hartley is sadly missed, but for all the pleasure that his films have provided to me, I hope he is richly enjoying life. (Perhaps like Terrence Malick, he will someday return triumphant.)
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
Never saw Night Nurse, but will try to track it down.
Saw some Pre-Code comedy with Kay Francis a while back; unfortunately cannot think of the title. But for everyone here the 1932 comedy “Trouble in Paradise” with Kay Francis and Miriam Hopkins is an absolute must see.
I was going to respond with a big “Oh, no,” but you are partly redeemed by any admiration for Truffaut. The New Wave rightly kicked to the curb most of the ossified French crap that preceded it.
On the other hand, I see that The Grand Illusion is playing at a few art house theaters here and there. I may have to make a pilgrimage.
BGinCHI
@Mnemosyne: But what about French noir!?? Non?
It’s where they are at their best.
The French make great movies about kids and gangsters.
Brachiator
BTW, I mentioned in another thread that the upcoming HBO movie about Hemingway and journalist Martha Gellhorn looks interesting. The series of background articles at the sfgate site is also very good, and deals with great sympathy with how director Philip Kaufman had to overcome his grief over his wife’s death to cancer to return to film making.
The film stars Clive Owen and Nicole Kidman.
BGinCHI
@handsmile: I could Google but I leave for the wedding in a few mins. Had been wondering about Hartley. Probably burned out would be my guess. At least he didn’t start making shit films or turn into some kind of Chris Columbus/Ivan Reitman gun for hire.
Anyone see that Agnieszka Holland film from last year that’s supposed to be so good? It’s called “In Darkness.” I love her work.
BGinCHI
@Brachiator: That Clive Owen can really wear a sweater.
master c
I will see Bernie [the Linklater one] first, and then the new Wes one, maybe in theater, maybe wait for DVD. I really like the art direction in the Anderson movies and “what the cuss!” y’all didnt like Fantastic Mister Fox? Bunch of Texans representing here: Linklater,
the Wilson Bros, and Wes. All still totally worth checking out.
pattonbt
Liked Bottlerocket, loved Rushmore (like someone else said, in my top 5 of all time – just hit me with the right tone at the right time of my life), TRT I thought was his best overall film (though I liked it but not loved it). From there I just felt I was getting the same thing over and over again. I will still give his films a go, but since they are all thematically the same (look, feel, actors, staging) it has gotten old for me.
Anderson to me is like Tim Burton. Tim Burton has been making the same movies now (except for Big Fish) for over a decade and I can’t watch them anymore. Fantastic early success, distinct style, creativity. But then overuse of the same process and actors and tone, and it’s all blah now – even though the individual films may be OK. Just can’t enjoy them anymore.
Anderson seems to be falling into this routine even more so.
McJulie
re: Wes Anderson: I like his deadpan sense of humor, but some of his movies have left me cold (Rushmore) while others I really liked (Royal Tenenbaums, Fantastic Mr. Fox). So he’s in the category of “I’ll see it if it’s the movie I feel like seeing at the time.” Kudos to the suggestion that it’s kind of a New Yorker sensibility. If anybody ever directed a movie version of The Catcher in the Rye, it oughta be him.
re: superheroes: I find it ironic that The Avengers — a nearly perfect superhero movie written and directed by arguable auteur Joss Whedon — seems to be the movie that inspires all the hipster types to go “oh, I’m sick of superhero movies now, so I won’t see that one.”
re: Tim Burton: yeah, he goes back to the same well over and over, but so did Hitchcock. So does everybody. Hipsterdom is so conspicuously “over” Burton that I feel the need to defend him. He’s done two absolute stinkers, in my opinion — Sleepy Hollow, which was pretty but boring as hell, and Planet of the Apes, which wasn’t even pretty. His other movies are on a continuum from great to entertaining but inconsequential.
Dark Shadows is on the latter end, a red velvet cupcake of a movie, but so what? Most movies I see end up being inconsequential, and a lot of them aren’t even entertaining first.
Phoebe
@DougJ, Head of Infidelity: My most enduring memory of that movie is him, in the “I’m A Pepper!” shirt, saying “I fold” in the poker game when they show up to rescue him.
I understand the twee-hatred, but as I get older I become much more tolerant of movies I like the looks of, so I’ll always always see that guy’s movies, even when he puts Adrien Brody in them.
You know what else is beautiful to look at? The Chess Players by Satyajit Ray. And Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, especially if you like dreary 70s office machinery. That movie was heaven for me.
Will
Bottle Rocket is his first and best movie. It’s also in many ways different than the others.