At long last the charges will be tested in a court room:
The authorities in Pennsylvania announced criminal charges on Wednesday against the entertainer Bill Cosby stemming from a woman’s accusation that he drugged and sexually abused her at his home in a suburb north of Philadelphia, in 2004.
Kevin Steele, Montgomery County’s district attorney-elect, said that Mr. Cosby faces a felony charge of aggravated indecent assault. He said the investigation involved a “relationship” between Mr. Cosby and the woman, Andrea Constand, that came about from her work with the basketball team at Temple University, Mr. Cosby’s alma mater.
Mr. Cosby became a “mentor” and “friend” to Ms. Constand, Mr. Steele said, and at one point she went to his home in Cheltenham Township. According to the accusations, Mr. Cosby urged her to take pills and drink wine until she was unable to move, after which he committed the assault.
“The evidence is strong and sufficient to proceed,” Mr. Steele said. He added: “A person in that state cannot give consent.”
Good.
hitchhiker
In his deposition for a civil case that got settled, he TOLD THE COURT that he had 7 prescriptions for quaaludes, which he himself does not take.
When they asked him if that was to give to young women so they would have sex with him, he said, “Yes.”
ArchPundit
@hitchhiker: What, what did I say?
/Creepy Cosby
Steeplejack (phone)
Redacted.
Punchy
Larry Whitmore just shot his load. His first show back outta be interesting….
randy khan
I think there are two interesting questions about how this case will proceed. The first is whether the deposition testimony will find its way into the court. The second is whether the prosecution will be able to call some of the other women who have told essentially the same story as hers. While there’s an obvious prejudicial effect in calling those other women, prosecutors sometimes get to put in evidence that the accused has a specific m.o., and in this case that would seem to corroborate the victim’s story. If either of those things happens, I would assume that Cosby is toast.
SiubhanDuinne
On CNN and MSNBC in the past couple of hours, I have heard “statue of limitations” from three different pundits.
(They would probably say “pundints.”)
bemused
Half listening to msnbc which said Cosby seemed confused with the judge repeating he is to have no contact with Constand including any remarks on social media. He previously claimed it was consensual but Constand is a lesbian. Is he “confused” because he is losing it or because he can’t believe he is actually being charged after getting with this assaulting dozens of women for decades?
feebog
@hitchhiker: And that deposition should be admitted in the criminal trial. This should have happened years ago. I’m hoping for a competent and aggressive approach to trying this case..
JPL
@ArchPundit: This is a nytimes article on the deposition he gave admitting to prescriptions to give girls. link
Patricia Kayden
@hitchhiker: Yep. I don’t see how he’s going to squeeze out of this one. What a way to end a legacy. Such a creep.
Elizabelle
At least someone will be showing up in a court of law, to answer for his alleged misdeeds. Good Mr. Cosby is an honorary professor, and not an honorary cop.
Sad case all around. Sad for the rape victims, so many of them, over so many years. Sad for the accused and his family too — I see Bill Cosby as someone who is a good guy, in several respects, in there with a sexual predator and serial liar component as well. You cannot let the sexual predation slide. It’s there.
I am glad my parents did not live to see this, because they enjoyed his comedy routines, years ago.
This is like Roman Polanski, and Bruno Bettelheim, and even Leni Riefenstahl. Do you totally devalue everything the person produced or said, because they’ve got this whacking big flaw (criminal or enabling criminals)? Can the art stand on its own, or is it always cheapened? Sometimes I wonder if people who are so flawed — thinking of Bettelheim — actually have some keen insights that someone else might not dwell on.
Somehow, I have less compassion for Bernard Law (Boston cardinal, child sexual abuse enabler) than Cosby, because Cosby seems so human, and we thought we knew him so much better. I don’t forget his son was murdered.
Although the drugging and raping was going on long before that, if allegations are true.
I don’t understand why or how someone with so much to lose cannot control his demons better? I guess it is sociopathy …
Germy
I remember seeing an interview with Kenan Thompson, who played Fat Albert in the live action adaptation. He said Cosby took him aside and this is how he mentored/congratulated him on his new film stardom: “You’re gonna need two dicks!”
I guess what Cos was saying was you’re going to have more p***y than you can shake one stick at.
bystander
@SiubhanDuinne: Pundon’ts?
BGinCHI
@SiubhanDuinne: Is that anything like “French benefits”?
Schlemazel
Call me cynical but I have a hard time seeing him getting convicted. There are too many doubts a good lawyer can throw at the jury. It is still a certain amount of ‘he said-she said”, I think a good lawyer can get other women’s stories blocked (though it’s iffy I assume he can afford the best), it has been a very long time and there will be faulty memory or slight changes in the story and other crap I am sure. If they can find 12 people who have no preconceived verdict my guess is his nice guy image gives him a pass. Obviously I have a low opinion of justice as it exists and I hope I am wrong in this case but I refuse to get my hopes up. My expectation is that from now on the best we can hope for is that women will avoid him like the rapist he is and he will end his life in the social void.
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: OI. I always dread Febuary because it is the month of Valentime’s Day.
GregB
I predict Bill Cosby will soon be coming down with Mobster Dementia.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne:
Heh. At least it’s not Holloween.
Percysowner
@Elizabelle:
Considering he got away with it for years and almost got away with it permanently, I’m not sure sociopathy is it. Plus, I suspect he didn’t consider what he was doing as being “demons”. I suspect he felt entitled to all the sex he wanted, when he wanted it and he convinced himself he was giving the women “what they really wanted, but couldn’t admit they wanted”.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
Isn’t that what Republicans want to replace the Statue of Liberty with?
JPL
@Elizabelle: Sometimes the crimes are such, that an asterisk next to their names is not enough.
Elizabelle
@Schlemazel:
@GregB:
My guess would be that Cosby gets convicted. Too much smoke, too many allegations, too similar.
And the Mobster Dementia, for the win. Haven’t they already been trying a variant of that?
I wonder if Cosby might end up a suicide, before this comes to trial. It’s so ugly, and such a terrible thing to put his family through …
Sasha
Well if the accuser is white, I imagine he’ll be convicted. I guess I am the only one who has a problem with this prosecution. He is being tried for something that happened twelve years ago. If the statute of limitations doesn’t apply, it should. Statutes of limitations are not technical dodges that allow the guilty to escape punishments; they are acknowledgements that it is extremely difficult to defend oneself years and years after the fact. The severity of the crime doesn’t change that truth. I do not know that I could defend myself against a charge that concerned something that happened more than a decade ago or something that happened two or three years ago for that matter.
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: FUCK I hate stupid people SO MUCH.
Brachiator
@Elizabelle:
Bruno Bettelheim? What was he accused of?
With Polanski, and a couple of others, my solution is that I will not view any of his films as long as he is alive.
Cosby is a monster. He used his increasing fame, and the reputation of his good name, as cover to hurt women. He has also sullied the reputations of those who believed in him, and undermined much of the good that he previously had done.
Worse, as is the case with institutions which have been associated with abuse, there were people who knew what he was doing, and who were eager to help him, because he was a famous star, an important person.
There was a British artist, Eric Gill, who sexually abused his sisters and his own children. It is amazing how many upper crust Brits insisted that it was vulgar to have exposed him, that people should have kept their mouths closed, that his cultural contribution was more important than the sins that he committed. Upon the death of one of the daughters, one obituary writer implied that the incestuous relationship had been no problem, and that the daughter was such an intuitive and assured adult that she could have had a second career as a child therapist.
GregB
@Elizabelle:
I remember thinking that Joe Paterno wouldn’t last very long once that whole horror was exposed. In Cosby’s case, the walls must be closing in on him pretty fast.
Friends not returning calls etc.
I think it is pretty tough going from beloved to loathed. I wouldn’t doubt him making an early exit by his ow hand.
Roger Moore
@Percysowner:
I assume a big part of it is that he- and a lot of other men- just don’t get the idea that sex requires positive consent rather than just a lack of refusal. Even a lot of the anti-rape stuff- “No means no!”- doesn’t make this point. We really need to make it clear that only yes means yes, and lack of consent is the same as refusal.
Schlemazel
@Elizabelle:
I’d agree except in order to be on the jury you are going to have to either not know about them or not believe them any more than him.
Also, I’d think a guy capable of this is enough of a narcissist that he is not taking himself deep so thats not an out. The story makes it sound like he is going the dementia route but that remains to be seen. I hope I am wrong but it just seems he has too many avenues of escape & can afford too many good lawyers.
Brachiator
@Elizabelle: Fudge. Got moderated. Let’s try again:
Bruno Bettelheim? What was he accused of?
With Polanski, and a couple of others, my solution is that I will not view any of his films as long as he is alive.
Cosby is a monster. He used his increasing fame, and the reputation of his good name, as cover to hurt women. He has also sullied the reputations of those who believed in him, and undermined much of the good that he previously had done.
Worse, as is the case with institutions which have been associated with abuse, there were people who knew what he was doing, and who were eager to help him, because he was a famous star, an important person.
There was a British artist, Eric Gill, who abused his sisters and his own children. It is amazing how many upper crust Brits insisted that it was vulgar to have exposed him, that people should have kept their mouths closed, that his cultural contribution was more important than the sins that he committed. Upon the death of one of the daughters, one obituary writer implied that the relationship with her father had been no problem, and that the daughter was such an intuitive and assured adult that she could have had a second career as a child therapist.
Suzanne
@Sasha: If that were 100% true, then the statute of limitations would be the same for all crimes. It obviously is not, because the public’s interests in seeing a sexual predator get convicted outweigh the difficulty of mounting a defense. (Besides, he admitted to it.)
I have no faith he’ll be convicted.
Elizabelle
@Sasha: Hey Sasha. Good point. I think Cosby would get a pass, except there are so many allegations, too many allegations.
Meanwhile, here’s a NY Times reader comment on the Cosby story by Jules T, with Dave Chappelle’s take:
This reminds me a little of public perception of Michael Jackson. There’s apparently a new bio of MJ out, by a Rolling Stone writer, who investigated the allegations against Jackson and finds them unproven.
The New Yorker had an interesting article a few weeks ago about Michael Jackson. That, with all his demons, he might have been luckier being an unknown major talent.
Sasha
@Suzanne: I think they should be. Statutes of Limitations are always presented as technicalities the guilty use to escape justice but not everybody who is charged with a crime is guilty. And there is no way, that I know of, to write a law suspending a statue of limitation because someone seems really, really guilty. It is hard enough to mount a meaningful defense against the deep pockets of government prosecutors. Now people can be forced to try for something that happened years ago.
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: Bettelheim, who wrote the marvelous “The Uses of Enchantment”, on the psychological meanings of fairy tales, was accused of abuse of children in his care, slapping, etc. Not sexual in nature.
NY Times article from 1990.
I don’t recall how this all played out.
Suzanne
@Brachiator: Carl Andre probably pushed Ana Mendieta out of a window to her death. I know he produced important work, and I can appreciate it intellectually, but it does fucking creep me out.
geg6
@Sasha:
They have the court docs from her original civil suit, so it’s not like there isn’t a huge paper trail and that paper trail includes testimony from 13 other women who could affirm his MO. Why do you think he settled with her originally? She had him dead to rights. And all those women who originally testified are a rainbow of skin colors. And FTR, the statute of limitations for these charges in PA was about to run out. So, are you really saying that because you don’t agree with the length of the stature of limitations here that these women should just forget about it and prosecutors should ignore that statute? Jesus, you’ve never been sexually assaulted, have you? Because mine happened over forty years ago and I can still tell you every detail of it.
Baud
@Suzanne: I’ll try to do better.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Schlemazel: The picture of him today shows a very, very sad face (it seems to me). Also, in some of his earlier TV interviews, he tried to keep the questioner from asking him about the allegations. He seems to recognize that he’s in very deep trouble.
Deservedly so.
I don’t know enough about him to read his state of mind, but he doesn’t strike me as someone who is narcissistic enough to think that he will waltz away from trouble based on his “obvious” charm and brilliance. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to plead to a lesser charge, though.
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who had a couple of his records as a kid, but who [didn’t find him humorous after he was about 10.]
lamh36
IDGAF about Bill Cosby….I feel for his victims.
But here’s what I do know. American now gets another “trial of the century” ala OJ.
And the media has a shiny new toy to play with so that they no loner have to focus on those pesky stories that make “America” majority uncomfortable…ya know the killing of 12 year old boys by police officers and the racist bias in our police systems.
But hey, that Cosby dude, he of the pudding pops and Fat Albert, that’s a prosecution they can rally around without having to deal with the uncomfortable reality of police brutality.
I saw in some circles already hopes of an OJ like broncho chase once the arrest warrant was issued.
Fuq Bill Cosby.
#TamirRice #SandraBland #EricGarner #LaQuanMcDonald #FreddieGray #TrayvonMartin….
ETA: Oh and we also have Gloria Allred, our resident ambulance chaser…post me a link to Gloria’s comment on the 13 Black women raped by that OK cop? Not high profile enough for her, I guess…ugh
Suzanne
@Sasha: Also, the longer ago a crime was committed, the more difficult it is to convict. Evidence gets lost, mishandled, or just degrades. People’s memories get fuzzy, staff at the Police and DA’s office changes. The case being relatively old is only going to help the accused.
In Cosby’s case, however, he already admitted to drugging and assaulting Constand.
Cacti
@Sasha:
The statute of limitations on this particular charge is 12 years, so it was set to expire shortly.
I think the age of this case, the lack of physical evidence, and the resources the accused has to spend on his legal defense will make a conviction fairly difficult (IAAL).
JPL
@Elizabelle: Dave Chappelle might be correct but it’s important to not forget
the demons. Charles Lindbergh was a hero for many in our country. I’m not sure how he is mentioned now, but hopefully his racist comments are covered. He worked hard trying to keep us out of WWII by degrading the Jewish people in our country and abroad.
Schlemazel
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
A narcissist won’t not kill them self because the believe they get off, they won’t kill them self because they believe they are too important to die. Plus he could, like I do, believe he can afford enough lawyers to get out of it..
@lamh36:
I don’t think anyone here is concerned about Cosby or his well being. I also believe that Ms. Allred’s credentials as a self-serving publicity hound who occasionally does a good deed tangentially to furthering her own career are well established. Her type is plentiful in many fields including the law.
Brachiator
@lamh36:
I don’t know. The sexual exploitation of women is also an uncomfortable reality. As is the idea that women, and especially women of color don’t matter, and can be tossed into the trash as sexual rubbish.
It does not work to try to diminish what has happened here or to suggest that this is a lesser offense than the murder of black people by the cops. It is part of the same horror.
Trial of the century was probably originally used to describe the Stanford White murder case in 1906. It’s an American tradition.
WereBear
As for me, I cannot watch Bill Cosby’s comedy, or listen, any more. That’s just me.
I can enjoy a Picasso without being upset by his incredibly misogynist views on women. I can watch a Polanski film because he isn’t in it.
But with Cosby, he invites such intimacy, and I can’t do that any more.
He can have his achievements. He just needs to answer for his crimes. I hope this prosecution is successful, of course. Because he has been doing this his entire career. Over fifty years. There are so many women who have come forward, and you know there are submerged masses of other women who have not or cannot.
I can only imagine what it is like to achieve such a pinnacle of fame and money and reverence; only to be exposed as a sexual predator. Of people who trusted him. With a polished modus operandi and the money and influence to commit his crimes whenever and however he liked.
It is truly amazing. An Oedipus of our time.
geg6
@lamh36:
I’m a big supporter of BLM, but I don’t see what that has to do with this. I would hope you aren’t trying to minimize the horror and suffering of his victims the way your comment seems to. Disappointing.
Cacti
@WereBear:
You lost me there.
How is this story like Oedipus?
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
Well, for all intensive purposes they mean the same thing.
WereBear
@Cacti: In classic Greek tragedy, the hero had to be of near God-like status and his flaws would bring him low.
Cosby is a towering figure in our popular culture. There is no way to take that away. But he is also brought low by his flaws.
This is the beginning of the end.
Cacti
@lamh36:
Also gives some well-timed cover to the State of Michigan knowingly letting the citizens of Flint drink lead-contaminated water for months, and aggressively denying it in public.
Brent
@Sasha: I don’t entirely disagree that this is an issue in principle but, as already pointed out, the state also has a pretty compelling interest here. Any law – indeed any principle of law – is about balancing the right of the accused against the right of the society in which he/she exists. Its pretty clear to me that in the case of violent crimes, that balance should at least tip toward society’s interest and thus a trial based upon the available facts seems pretty reasonable.
I am certainly not one who reflexively complains about legal technicalities. I believe pretty strongly that we should all fight harder to protect our individual civil liberties. But I also think that all of us have a pretty strong interest as a group of citizens to protect ourselves against the predatory and the murderous. I think requiring a trial by jury for the most serious crimes, even an extended time after the fact, does not harm that balance in any significant way.
lamh36
@geg6: No offense, but I could care less about your “dissappointment”.
Just as you can’t control how I “read” some of your comments, I cannot control the way you see mine. If you saw “minimization” that’s on you, not on me.
Sasha
But surely society also has an interest in protecting the rights of innocent people who are wrongly accused and that interest is every bit as compelling, or should be, as its interest in prosecuting crimes. I think twelves years is too long and yes, I know murder and some other crimes have no statutes of Limitation. I also think that this prosecution is a particularly difficult to justify given that this isn’t a case where someone was assaulted as a child and is now an adult or a case where the identity of the perpetrator was unknown.
Bill Cosby will be able to mount a defense, his money will see to that but what about some guy who is not rich and not famous and who is suddenly charged for an act that was committed twelve years ago. Someone with an overworked public defender. How would he defend himself?
randy khan
@Sasha:
@Brent:
The idea of a statute of limitations is to balance the societal interest in bringing a criminal to justice against the potential unfairness of trying that individual long after the alleged crime occurred. That’s why they vary depending on the seriousness of the crime (and why there’s no statute of limitations for murder, at least in general). I don’t see this as a technicality in the same way that an odd exclusionary rule decision might be, but rather as an attempt to get at fundamental issues of justice for both society and the accused. It’s a little crude, but you also don’t really want to be deciding these sorts of things on a case by case basis.
Betsy
@Elizabelle: @JPL: @Brachiator: @WereBear:
Calvin Trillin on Roman Polanski:
A youthful error? Yes, perhaps.
But he’s been punished for this lapse–
For decades exiled from LA
He knows, as he wakes up each day,
He’ll miss the movers and the shakers.
He’ll never get to see the Lakers.
For just one old and small mischance,
He has to live in Paris, France.
He’s suffered slurs and other stuff.
Has he not suffered quite enough?
How can these people get so riled?
He only raped a single child.
Why make him into some Darth Vader
For sodomizing one eighth grader?
This man is brilliant, that’s for sure–
Authentically, a film auteur.
He gets awards that are his due.
He knows important people, too–
Important people just like us.
And we know how to make a fuss.
Celebrities would just be fools
To play by little people’s rules.
So Roman’s banner we unfurl.
He only raped one little girl.
Betsy
Stuck in moderation … halp
Cacti
@Sasha:
He wouldn’t. That’s the idea. The reason prosecutors generally have such high conviction rates is because the deck is completely stacked in their favor from the jump.
Cosby is the rare defendant who won’t come into Court completely outgunned by the State’s attorney, so something resembling a fair trial might actually take place.
Betsy
@Elizabelle: @Percysowner: Definitely a sociopath, and a master manipulator. Have you seen the interviews he has given where he challenges the interviewer’s personal integrity, diverts questions with hostility and thinly veiled threats to the questioner, call victim’s humanity into question?
Definitely a sociopath. Not sure how “getting away with it for years” would be inconsistent with sociopathy. Actually that’s more of a confirmation.
Brent
@Sasha:
Well that is the right of the accused part of the balance and indeed that is what a trial is for. To make sure the State has to prove its case. Of course, you are correct that those without Cosby’s resources will have a much more difficult time defending themselves against the State. But that doesn’t change the underlying interest on society’s side of the balance.
To put it another way, I don’t think we can reasonably decide that the answer to the fact that is too easy to condemn the powerless is that we should allow the powerful more leeway. In fact, it is largely because of his resources that Cosby has managed to evade even this small portion of accountability for his actions up to now. He will never be held to account for a very long list of crimes he almost certainly committed again in large part BECAUSE of his extensive resources.
Again, I don’t disagree that there is an important principle of justice here but Cosby is, to say the least, not a very strong example of individual rights in jeopardy.
Betsy
@Betsy: stuck in moderation
Betsy
@Elizabelle: @JPL: @Brachiator: @WereBear:
Calvin Trillin on Roman Polanski:
A youthful error? Yes, perhaps.
But he’s been punished for this lapse–
For decades exiled from LA
He knows, as he wakes up each day,
He’ll miss the movers and the shakers.
He’ll never get to see the Lakers.
For just one old and small mischance,
He has to live in Paris, France.
He’s suffered slurs and other stuff.
Has he not suffered quite enough?
How can these people get so riled?
He only raped a single child.
Why make him into some Darth Vader
For sodomizing one eighth grader?
This man is brilliant, that’s for sure–
Authentically, a film auteur.
He gets awards that are his due.
He knows important people, too–
Important people just like us.
And we know how to make a fuss.
Celebrities would just be fools
To play by little people’s rules.
So Roman’s banner we unfurl.
He only raped one little girl.
Suzanne
@Sasha: Considering how it only gets more difficult to convict someone the longer ago a crime occurred, and how it is already very difficult for us as a society to prosecute for rape and sexual assault even shortly after it happens, I can’t agree in any way with the assertion that society’s needs are currently adequately balanced with those of the accused WRT sex crimes.
Also……he admitted it. This should be a prosecutorial slam-dunk, though I doubt it will be.
PurpleGirl
Cosby lost his halo many years ago in my eyes: there was the opening sequence of his TV show which featured a public school with a mural painted on its wall. Well, the school and the PTA thought it was only going to be used one time and his production company used it for all the years of the show. (They sued for more compensation, the law firm I worked for did the case pro bono.) My non-profit approached his agent to have him perform at a benefit — he demanded to be paid for it, said he’d rebate it back to us but he wanted the payment first. We had lots of other stars who gladly performed at a benefit for and didn’t demand anything in return (Ben Stiller, Vanessa Redgrave, others). We asked for a donation for one of our special reading programs — we received a letter (two actually) saying no donation was coming. And they were signed by an administrative assistant. The letters had the WORST grammar I’d ever seen. He lost whatever stature he once had with me a long time ago.
Joel
Bill Cosby was always a dick.
PurpleGirl
@Joel: Remember that Cosby also began lecturing African-Americans about how they should act, work, etc.
Joel
@PurpleGirl: This is one of the things that long pissed me off about hearing people (always white) talk about Cosby. Fuck that guy.
Feebog
@Sasha:
Yes, society has a vested interest in protecting innocent people. But let me state this very clearly; Bill Cosby is not innocent. Yes, I know, our system of justice presumes innocence until proven guilty, but that is a legal theory, not reality. He is a sexual predator and he has been raping women for decades. That is the reality. Will he be acquitted? Possible, Simpson was found not guilty, and he should have been convicted. That’s why I said up thread that I hope he subject to a competent and aggressive prosecutor.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack:
Can you feel the Artic chill directed your way?
rikyrah
I’m not naive….but, I just don’t believe these women.
And I’m not saying he’s a good guy. I’m saying that they went along to get along because they thought going along would get them something, and now they’re old, and didn’t get anything and this is their last chance for a payday.
Yeah, I said it.
A payday.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
I could care less.
rikyrah
I said it before – they are all suspicious as phuck
EVERYTHING about this case goes against EVERYTHING I know about Black Men in AMERICA.
AND I MEAN EVERYTHING.
I.simply.don’t.buy.it.
I.simply.don’t.believe.them.
They could have spoken up.
GMAFB about him being so ‘powerful’.
GET DA PHUQ OUTTA HERE WITH THAT BULLSHYT.
If it were the bunch of BLACK teens – as in the RKelly situation, YES…I get that. Cause nobody gives a shyt about them. If RKelly had messed with just ONE White teen..Just ONE…he’d be under the jail.
But, all these scurrrred White women?
PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
I have been Black in America longer than 3 days.
Feebog
@rikyrah: Nine of the women are black. Are they lying too?
Cacti
@Feebog:
Despite their being enough dna evidence to convict Simpson under normal circumstances, the cop to secure the crime scene was the thoroughly racist Mark Fuhrman, who took the Fifth Amendment when asked “have you ever falsified a police report” and “was the testimony you gave at the preliminary hearing completely truthful”.and was charged with perjury by the California AG’s office over his false statements in the case.
Should that be enough to create reasonable doubt?
You bet your ass it should.
Suzanne
@rikyrah: He admitted it. Do you think he’s lying?
Jack Fish
Yes, it’s odd that a person of his status, who’s made a second career scolding the dress and deportment of young black men, should show up in court dressed not, as his station in life would suggest, in a suit and tie, but as the new Vincent Gigante.
Bobby Thomson
@rikyrah: Fifty? Fifty women are making it up?
Uh huh.
It’s not as though sexual harassment was unheard of in the 1970s.
Bobby Thomson
@rikyrah:
Many of them did.
You mean like these?
Cacti
@Bobby Thomson:
Black male on white female sexual harassment in the 1970s?
Yeah, that was pretty much unheard of. White people were still throwing rocks at black children over school integration in the 1970s.
rikyrah
@Feebog:
Without the White women, this case would have nobody paying attention to it.
Suzanne
@Cacti: Sexual harassment in the presence of a power differential has been around much longer than the 1970s. Cosby had celebrity and a public platform, and every case I’ve heard of involved him going after someone of a “lower social station”.
@rikyrah: That may be true, but, once again, he admitted to it.
Cacti
I’m deeply skeptical that a black man of any station could have gotten away with sexual harassment of any white woman in the 1970s who wasn’t a prostitute.
American law enforcement agencies have been inclined to take the side of a black male accused over a white accuser of any gender since about half past never.
Suzanne
@Cacti: And men have been getting away with rape and assault of women since God was a child. Famous, rich men even more so.
Again….HE ADMITTED IT. This case is moving forward because Cosby ADMITTED under oath to drugging and raping. Like, how much more proof do you need?
Cacti
@Suzanne:
He admitted that he was raping white women in the 1970s?
Feebog
@Cacti:
Furman was not the lead detective in the case, and did not have the responsibility of securing the crime scene. In my view, Marcia Clark and her team were incompetent boobs. For instance, they knew the make and size of the shoes of the murderer by the time of the trial. Bruno Magli’s, only about 900 pair in that size sold in the U.S. Well after the trial a news reporter found a picture of Simpson wearing tithe shoes at a football game. The fact that Clark and Darden never even looked for such a picture speaks volumes about their competence.
Suzanne
@Cacti: He admitted he drugged and raped Constand, and all the other women’s stories, from the 1970s onward, match that MO. People around him at the time said that he went after women in this same manner, that it was common knowledge. He has been accused by both black and white women.
I am not unaware that race plays a role in the perception of this case, but seriously, one in three or one in four women in this country (depending on which statistics you believe) will be assaulted in this country, and fewer than 10% of their rapists will ever see justice. That goes for both black women and white women. And much of the reason for that is because PEOPLE DON’T BELIEVE WOMEN. Because of “bitches lie” and “golddiggers” and “paydays”.
Seriously, again, how much more proof do you need?
Cacti
@Feebog:
Fuhrman was a known racist among the LAPD, likely made it to detective because of, rather than despite that fact, was the first cop on the scene, and made false statements under oath in the preliminary hearing, for which he later pled guilty to perjury charges.
It becomes a question of how much police misconduct you’re willing to tolerate to achieve a desired end. Had OJ been before a jury of suburban whites, I doubt they’d have cared much at all. Instead, it was composed of people more likely to have been on the receiving end of Mark Fuhrman-style justice.
Cacti
@Suzanne:
In the past, if a black male was caught with a white female, who got the rope, him or her?
Suzanne
@Cacti: So, once again, IN THIS CASE, in which over fifty black and white women accused him, in which he admitted to drugging and raping Andrea Constand under oath, how much more proof do you need that he is a rapist?
Does the fact that we used to execute black men for raping white women excuse the fact that this man raped black and white women?
How about the very recent history that well over 90% of male-on-female rapists get away with it?
Cacti
@Suzanne:
How did he admit to drugging anyone when he denied ever giving anyone drugs without their consent?
Not for raping them. For committing consensual sex acts acts with them. Up until 1967, 17 US states still had anti-miscegenation statutes.
Suzanne
“However, he also admits to giving quaaludes to women in the ’70s, “the same as a person would say have a drink,” but when asked if he thought one of the women he admitted giving quaaludes to, Therese Serignese, was even able to consent to sex after taking the drug, Cosby responds, “I don’t know.” (Ms. Serignese had said she was too incapacitated to have be able to give consent.) Cosby also indicates that he doesn’t like quaaludes himself because they make him sleepy, and the only reason he ever had them was to give them to women he wanted to have sex with.”
As I’m sure you know, a person cannot legally consent after having been drugged. He admitted to drugging women, then having sexual encounters with them, which is rape, since they cannot consent to sex after having taken drugs, even if they took the drugs consentually (though many of them deny that they knew what the drugs were). Sex that they can’t consent to is rape. Seriously, again, how much more proof do you need? Like, what would do it for you here?
Look, that history is absolutely awful, and I’ve never even hinted at defending or excusing it. But that history does not make Bill Cosby not a rapist.
And again, you are still absolutely ignoring the current-day travesty that male-on-female rapists get away with it the vast, vast majority of the time.
Betsy
@Betsy: @Betsy:
Blerp
Def.: a combination of blah and derp, esp. when quoting Calvin Trillin while unable to manage basic commenting functions on BJ
Steeplejack (phone)
@Betsy:
You had too many links (four) in your original comment. “Reply to” links count just like hyperlinks to other sites. Three is the maximum.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Cacti:
Eh? It looks like you’re saying that black men weren’t executed for being convicted of rape, here. But it might be that you’re simply being too terse. Did you really mean that?
Because, if so, the Martinsville Seven case would seem to be an obvious historical example showing that that view is wrong.
Now, if you’re saying that the fact that no white man had been executed for rape shows that it was all about race mixing and so forth, well, that’s fine, but this was a case when there wasn’t consent. That’s surely rape, with or without the racial mixing aspects.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cacti
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
My point wasn’t that black men didn’t used to get executed for rape. It was that even consensual sexual activity with a white woman could them lynched or terrorized. And that up until Loving v. Virginia in 1967, interracial marriage was a crime in 17 US States.
Suzanne
@Cacti: And marital rape wasn’t considered A Thing in some states all the way until 1993. Our social attitudes towards sexual assault of women are just as shameful as they were toward misgenation.
Again, none of which bears on this case, considering that Cosby admitted to drugging and raping.
Darkrose
@rikyrah: That doesn’t change the fact that some of the women who’ve accused Cosby of rape are black. Are they also lying gold-diggers, or is that just the white women?
Darkrose
@rikyrah: Wow.
If anyone here suggested that any of that rapist OKC cop’s victims were lying, you’d have been furious, and rightly so. But 46 women so far–they’re all lying for the money. And people wonder why rape survivors don’t want to come forward.
Betsy
@Steeplejack (phone): thanks