When a bunch of pundits say that some candidate “lost” a debate, the question I ask is whether you can encapsulate that loss in a political ad. Here’s the raw material for the Rubio ad. After umpteen fucking debates, you’d think Marco would be able to go a little bit off script. After last night, I’m wondering if Trump or Cruz will the first one to demand that Rubio take off his shirt and show us his back to make sure there’s not a pull ring and a string embedded there.
3-2-1 seems pretty unlikely after one of the other superpacs carpet bombs South Carolina with this clip. And every “establishment” Republican has a little spot in his hindbrain telling him that Hillary would cut little boy Marco into bite-sized pieces and eat him for lunch. So who’s the next recipient of the 2012 Romney supporters’ votes? I think it’s finally sunk in that Jeb¡ is carrying around an anvil in the shape of his last name. Christie is an inch from Federal indictment. So, I guess it’s Kasich. Did I miss someone?
Trentrunner
If Rubiomentum is stalled or reversed, that means we’re in for a longer Republican primary contest. Rubio coming in 1st or a strong 2nd in NH meant he was clearing the establishment lane. Now if he fails to do that, Bush, Kasich, and probably Christie stay in at least a few more primaries.
Which is only good because holy cow, these spherical GOP firing squads are awesome to behold.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
At what point does money say “fuck it – we know we can work with Hillary, and a resurgent Democratic Party has always been accommodating to business needs without all that bible-thumping drama. Time to throw back in with them.”
gogol's wife
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Don’t hold your breath.
Roger Moore
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
After the general election, if then. I don’t think they’re going to support the Democrat until their Republican options are truly exhausted.
dedc79
I can just picture Trump and Christie sitting around pre-debate tossing a coin to see who gets to deliver the death blow.
The only surprise is that it took this long. As early as the first debate, Rubio was transparently trying to find a way to use his rehearsed talking point about the american economy in the age of Amazon. Granted, I think he only used it twice in that debate, not four times.
Mudge
I guess robotic memorization is Rubio’s way of avoiding the use of a teleprompter….
A Ghost To Most
It reminds me of my yoot – standing in the snow, watching a roaring trashcan fire, where the contents of the trash includes aerosol cans. Watching, waiting for the inevitable next explosion.
Baud
Romney was much better than Rubio at this.
balconesfault
The second track it went to was Bush condemning Trump over using eminent domain for personal profit, rather than public infrastructure. Someone should ask him about how his brother engineered the grab of Arlington land for the Texas Ranger’s new ballpark.
As for the money guys – it’ll flow to Dems if they consider the GOP candidate too scary for the current reality. See Barack Obama vs McCain/Palin back in 2008, when the financial sector decided that promises of more tax cuts weren’t worth putting amateurs in charge of a collapsing economy.
balconesfault
trying to figure out WHY my last comment went into moderation???
Frankensteinbeck
They remain split, with a little brief reshuffling but Rubio remaining in the lead. Maybe Jeb:( will get five minutes to stick his foot in his mouth AGAIN. Kasich remains not crazy enough even for the establishment. Until Trump and Cruz implode, and Trump has not yet imploded (only slightly underperformed his polling) they’re all losers. Carson was guaranteed to implode. His supporters were all virulent racists who just wanted you to know they would totally vote for a black man because they’re not racists before they settled on the candidate who satisfied their individual style of racism. Cruz and Trump… I just don’t know.
gogol's wife
Wow, that clip is amazing. I of course did not watch the debates (what, when there’s a 2003 Lynley episode being broadcast somewhere?). From the description below, I thought it would be just the usual repetition of talking points that debaters do. But he repeats it exactly, with the exact same words and intonations!
He did have a 2.0 grade point average in high school, so I guess this isn’t surprising.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Baud:
When Rmoney is an example of how to run a better campaign, that says a lot…
Mike J
Tweet from a Trump supporter:
Iowa Old Lady
Who said that our long presidential campaign is like a x-ray of the soul? Rubio proved that last night. He’s not up to this.
PhoenixRising
@Trentrunner: Kasich. It’s gonna be Kasich. He’s the Minister of Magic who denys that Voldemort is standing next to him, head-ferret waving in the breeze. Classic GOP establishment.
MattF
So… I don’t know. Maybe someone ‘new’. Maybe Scott Walker’s owners will change their minds.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
Not that I can see. I know for me I wouldn’t miss a one of them.
MazeDancer
Trump was road-testing his calm, reasoned persona during last night’s spin room interviews. He sounded like your basic biz guy. “He’s not so bad” may be how the GOP just gives up and goes with Trump. And compared to what else was being offered last night, it’s not completely untrue.
If Christie hadn’t done bridgegate, he might be benefiting from last night. Kasich is, at heart, a whiner. So, bring him on. It will make Hillary emphasize her smiley, warm side. Really, can see how GOP establishment might start rationalizing the “not so bad”, calmer Trump was best of a bad crop. And focus on continually destroying states.
Trump also had Melania by his side last night in the spin room. Not sure how they’re going to turn a Playboy centerfold Russian into a FLOTUS contender, but the past few weeks they’ve been showing her more. Using her on magazine covers. Maybe, they’ll use some kind of reverse sexism to promote Melania’s skin tight clothes. Like blaming “feminists” for “attacking a woman for her looks”. Or “there’s nothing wrong with being pretty”. Or something like that.
Betty Cracker
Rubio is just as vacuous as Palin. Glad to see him exposed. Still, I hope his possible implosion is slo-mo. I don’t want anyone electable elevated.
MattF
@MazeDancer: Ugh. The classic ‘secret weapon’ trope. Spare me.
Baud
@PhoenixRising: I hope it is at this point. He still seems the least painful way to die.
Mike J
@MazeDancer: We’ve never had a president that owned a strip club. Except Pierce.
Frankensteinbeck
@PhoenixRising:
No way. Kasich is TOO good at pretending he’s not as vile as the rest of them. He’s Huntsman Lite, 1/3rd Less Charisma. He just can’t get enough votes to bother with, even if the circus implodes.
dr. bloor
You’d think Rubio’s money guys would at least chip in and get him a refurbished copy of the MittBot 2012 software. Buggy as hell, but still an upgrade from the Chatty Cathy program.
MattF
@dr. bloor: And the pull string in the back won’t hang below his jacket any more.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@MazeDancer:
I have not heard Melanoma speak but it sure would be great if she sounds like Natasha Fatal. That would drive the wingnuts mad I think – A FUR-A-NER AS FLOTUS?!?!
I think the Dumpster kept escalating until Iowa showed him he may have taken it a bit too far. So now he will dial it back to 11. But I think there are enough good clips of classic Dumpster fire that new and improved Dumpster NOW WITH LESS FIRE! will still be a tough sell.
Roger Moore
@MazeDancer:
If she’s really a problem, The Donald can always divorce her; it’s not like he has any problem jettisoning his wives.
Frankensteinbeck
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
I don’t think it would be a problem. She’ll act like good little property, and as long as she does, a Russian Playboy model is what every evangelical wishes he had naked and barefoot in the kitchen.
RepubAnon
@Roger Moore: Precisely – the big money boys (no girls allowed) know that if they can’t get a Republican elected, the Democrats will be more than happy to cut them a favorable deal. It’d be a different world if the Democrats started exacting a price for the lack of pre-election support… say, by eliminating the carried interest loophole, adding some tax brackets to heavily tax the outrageous Wall Street / Big Bank bonus structures, and taxing corporations on the profits they report to investors rather than their post-tax avoidance structured profits.
gf120581
@PhoenixRising: Except much of the donor class hates Kasich. Apparently he gave a speech at a Koch event where he angrily defended accepting Medicaid expansion as a moral issue and got a bunch of walkouts. He’s not Scrooge enough for their taste.
At this point, I wonder if some of the donor class will take a page from the House GOP and go groveling to Paul Ryan.
WaterGirl
” 27 Comments.”
See, I knew BJ was going off the rails with Hillary vs Bernie insanity. :-)
Kirbster
For the Billionaire’s Boys Club, Rubio is the perfect empty vessel to robo-sign all the ALEC- and Koch-backed legislation their lobbyists can ram through the congress. They just have to find a way to sell Speak & Spell Marco to the public. Last night’s performance won’t help much.
Baud
I’m telling you, this is the beginning of Jeb’s comeback.
oldgold
I think the establishment coalesces behind Trump. He is really one of them; yet, Trump can run as an outsider.
GregB
Is it too late for Dick Cheney to enter the race and save America?
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone
liberal
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
mobile.twitter.com/billmon1/status/696353581713199104
MattF
@Baud: “Turn around, Jeb, and face the audience.”
Hal
Gawker has a photo of two guys in cars board robot costumes. One has Marco Roboto written in it, which made me lol.
I’m still trying to figure out why people get the tingles for this guy. Obama is far smarter and a better politician with a more extensive history of accomplishments than Rubio and republicans and even some dems chopped him up for it. Rubio is much less impressive yet all these supporters seemed to think he was the second coming.
gf120581
That moment where Christie goes “there he goes again” to Rubio’s third time around at that Obama soundbite is such a human moment. He genuinely is going, “I can’t believe this fucking idiot is doing it again!”
RepubAnon
@MazeDancer:
As long as she’s a good Stepford Wife, the Republicans wouldn’t have a problem with her.
kc
Bush has been running attack ads against Rubio for weeks in SC, portraying Rubio as being untrustworthy on immigration.
I hate to be so frequently reminded of these clowns, but at least it’s good to know that Jeb is burning through a pile of money.
MattF
@GregB: There’s a Constitutional requirement that the President has to have a heart-sized natural organ in his chest.
gf120581
@Hal: He’s young, good looking, and Hispanic. I think they look on him like corporations think of the young junior execs they slap on the covers of their brochures; they put up a good marketing front.
The comparisons to Obama fall flat, not just on intelligence, but because Obama, despite being young, came of an an actual, you know, adult. Rubio always comes off as a kid who dressed up in his dad’s suit to try and get past the bouncer. And when he speaks, he always sounds like a student who didn’t do his homework and is trying to bullshit his way through the big presentation while not knowing a thing about anything.
gf120581
@kc: I don’t remember who did it, but there was a marvelous tweet a couple weeks ago that said Jeb appears to be attempting a murder/suicide on Rubio.
WereBear
Dayum! How did he rise so far without having his heart ripped out of his chest and put in the freezer in case Cheney needs it?
I thought that was a requirement.
Frankensteinbeck
@oldgold:
No. Trump has committed the Republican Establishment’s second worst sin: He has threatened the plausible deniability of their racism. At best, they will begrudgingly support him over the Democrat, because he has not committed the worst sin: Compassion towards the Lessers.
BGinCHI
I’m guessing they are showing Rubio the clips over and over and he’s like, “Nope…sorry, I still don’t get what I did wrong.”
Felonius Monk
I guess we can refer to him as R2B2-io from now on.
Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
Nobody’s said it yet?
This is good news for John McCain!
Doug R
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: When the racists finally realize what America is and is becoming rather than wish for something that never really was?
father pussbucket
They’re not debates; they’re mutant press conferences. It would be great to see a real debate, especially between Bernary and whatever the GOP finally coughs up,
MattF
@BGinCHI: Well, there is a school of thought that says one should stick to one’s talking points, no matter what.
beltane
Trump came across as almost affable last night. Rubio left me wondering how such a mindless tool could ever be elected to the Senate.
Tractarian
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Good question. (Recall that Wall Street’s overwhelming support of the GOP is a relatively recent phenomenon.)
Maybe as soon as they are certain she will be the nominee?
p.a.
I’m disappointed in Carson. Going down the tubes, but not vindictive enough to burn down the house while he is. Think we saw a bit of that with Christie last night, although it was mostly a hail-mary trying to become the relevant ‘establishment’ contender. Jeb? has the dna to prick it up, but not the will. Trump will, if he starts losing. Crudz took match to the house as a fucking Senator, so he’s got great potential.
Good times.
Doug R
@Baud: If by comeback you mean he gets the MOE on those 700 person polls or 5% as opposed to the MOE of 3% he got in Iowa.
p.a.
@MattF:
That was rescinded for the Wilson presidency.
Emma
@liberal: So I’m supposed to be horrified at this? I lean to Hillary, as many women my age do, but if it comes to Cruz (or any other Republican) versus Sanders, I’m voting Bernie. Even though I don’t think he has a clue about anything other than economics. He’s voting his self-interest I’m voting mine. Whether either one of us get what we want is another question.
Citizen_X
@Roger Moore:
Good. I sincerely hope Bernie stays in, and competitive, long enough to scare the big money boys away.
Baud
@Doug R: He’ll take it!
Roger Moore
@Doug R:
Never. SATSQ.
gogol's wife
@MazeDancer: @Frankensteinbeck:
She’s Slovenian! Not at all the same thing.
Betty Cracker
@beltane: A three-way race in which a Democrat and Independent split the not-Rubio vote.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Kasich is their smartest national play, but has no support from the base. He’ll probably do as well as he’ll do in this cycle, in New Hampshire, but when he gets down south – nope, Kasich isn’t gonna happen. I still think Trump’s in touch with the GOP base’s id – no one else gets them worked up like he does. When he gets to SC and beyond, he’ll be back to immigrant bashing and how the blacks will love him.
I think Rubio wearing those boots set him up for the pounding he took last night – he’s a complete fraud of a person.
Kay
I was counting on the Bush Family to knock out Kasich in some underhanded way. The Bush Family have consistently disappointed me on every measure for decades now. They can’t even be counted on to help inadvertently.
beltane
@Betty Cracker: Ah, this is how Republicans can win office even in states that are more liberal than Florida.
Baud
@Kay: Have they had the incentive to prior to now?
Frankensteinbeck
@gogol’s wife:
They neither know, nor care.
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Not going to happen. John Schnatter will never support anyone who might infringe on his Galtian Genius right to fuck over his employees any way he feels like. The Kochs will spend every last penny they have, if necessary, to stop the negros and communists who are taking over the government. The rational rich are already supporting the Democrats for the same widely individual of reasons 99% Democrats do. And being rational, they’re not throwing insane amounts of money in.
EDIT – Let me add as evidence Romney’s 47% speech. It had nothing to do with squeezing more dimes out of government policy. He was just sharing with his fellow rich people how loathsome the Lessers are.
J R in WV
I finally watched Rubio’s 4x speech about Obama trying to change this country.
First, of course he is, that is what he ran for election and reelection on, and won both times.
Secondly, did you hear the republican audience booing him the fourth time? He changed it up a tiny bit, as much as he could I suppose, and no one, NO ONE was buying it.
Doomed. Has he suspended his race yet? Not yet?
Has he suspended his race yet?
Surely by now!
Not yet? What’s wrong with him?
it is to laugh hard LOLing. What a joke!
glory b
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Only hearsay, but I understand her fluency is pretty limited.
To the extent that itbrings up the question “How did Trump communicate enough with her to establish a relationship before he married her?
SFAW
@Roger Moore:
But then Newtie will feel as though he’s no longer the frontrunner in the dumping-wives race, and will have to punt on Callista, and then Donald will feel the spotlight shifting, so he’ll have to dump his next one, and so on.
Not unlike the nuclear weapons buildup during the Cold War.
As far as the dark horse who will save the Republican Party from itself, I think Eddie Quinn would be a good choice.
ruemara
@Baud: I saw this more as the defining moment that lead to BAUD 2016! taking the win.
Tom Q
This was pretty amazing to watch — not just that Rubio seemed incapable of making the tiniest adjustment (as Jeff Greenfield said, he was like an audio-animatronic whose wiring went whack), but that Christie was there to deliver the smackdown so concisely. It was fairly close to Biden/Giuliani “a noun, a verb, 9/11” — something that was suddenly made so obvious even the media couldn’t pretend to ignore it.
Which is a key element here: like McCain in 2000, Rubio is a candidate whose main support is not the establishment as much as the large part of the media that WANTS an establishment candidate they can pretend is centrist. They’ve been telegraphing for months that Rubio’s the guy they’re willing to do that for, which is why his minor but notable rise in Iowa (beating the point spread by several digits) was important: it gave them an excuse to do the boosting they were already anxious to do. But last night changed that: it was an epic fail, one that made even Brit Hume say it brought back memories of Quayle/Bentsen.
If Rubio falls even just a bit on Tuesday, the establishment will be back to its pre-Iowa problem: a group of candidates (Kasich/Bush/now maybe Christie, along with Rubio) splitting what is already a diminished portion of the GOP electorate — maybe 40% of NH, and considerably less elsewhere. Had Rubio been able to consolidate that group, with Trump & Cruz staying equally competitive, Rubio might have been able to win some plurality races the way McCain & Romney did in the last two cycles. If the establishment niche can’t settle on its candidate, Trump and/or Cruz will instead be the beneficiaries of the split.
Tractarian
@J R in WV:
Rubio: “Barack Obama is undertaking a systematic effort to change this country, to make America more like the rest of the world.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
NonyNony
@Roger Moore: She’s not going to be a problem. Republicans know that moral purity is not why they vote for Presidents. If they can get it, great – they’ll use it. But what they want is a President who does and says what they want him to do and say. The evangelicals won’t care about his trophy wife.
And the anti immigration people supporting him are almost all racists cloaking their racism in anti-immigration verbiage. They’re all happy he’s married to a white woman and won’t give a damn that she’s from another country.
Baud
@ruemara: Like Obama, I know exactly what I’m doing.
J R in WV
@MattF:
Yes, but you need more than ONE Talking Point for 3 hour “debate”, don’t you?
Crisco certainly thought so, and for once he was right!
I loved the booing after Rub-io did it a fourth time, changing it up as much as he could, which wasn’t nearly enough even for the audience.
An amazing performance. I give it 62 points out of a hundred, a D-, at best…
And then there was Dr. Carson, who seems to have become a zombie – just in the past couple of months he has lost so much of his ability to even pretend to be a bright guy.
Heliopause
None of the establishment guys have any traction at the moment. Maybe Kasich will come out of New Hampshire on top of that particular heap but I don’t see any evidence he’ll play well in the big southern primaries coming up. I still think it’s either Rubio, the Helicopter Scenario, or nobody.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: also, these are the people who put out a glam-shot calendar (was it a calendar? or just a blog post?) of their younger female congresscrittters haw-haw-hawing about how “our girlz is way hotter than Nancy Pelosi!”
MattF
@J R in WV: Well, I suppose… But the ‘debate coaches’ candidates employ don’t have a high opinion of either the electorate or the candidates, and that’s usually a key to their success. Rubio learned his lesson, and he did exactly what the teacher said he should do. What more can you ask for?
Uncle Cosmo
@gf120581:
FU for bigfooting my brilliant insightful prediction before I could get it into electrons!
The somewhat-depleted Klown Kar will hang on through primary season & no one will have anything close to a majority going into the convention. The Blue-eyed Boy is the one person left with national prominence who won’t have been shivved at some point on the way, by other Thuglicans or by his own hand. Purely on that basis he’d be the hardest of the bunch to beat in November.
Trentrunner
Conceding that consenting adults should be able to marry whomever they want, blah blah blah…
Since people–Very Serious People–speculate ad nausecum about the Clintons’ marriage, let’s speculate a little about the Trumps’, shall we?
First, clearly there’s some economic exploitation of gender wealth disparity going on:
Because what superhot European model doesn’t long for the lingering, eczemal touch of 69-year-old stubby vulgarian fingers poking and prodding her supple, firm flesh?
“Tell me I’m YUUUGE, Melanoma, tell me I’m YUUUUUUUGE!”
“My name eez Melania…”
Think of all they have in common, with nearly 30 years, a hemisphere, and language barrier between them?
No, money didn’t matter here. Not at all.
Citizen_X
@Betty Cracker:
Ah. So, same way Maine ended up with a troll like Lapage for governor then, eh?
WereBear
Based on his performance in the campaign so far, and especially is bizarre befuddlement last night, I wonder if he doesn’t have some kind of dementia issue.
It could explain his retirement from medicine.
policomic
“Dispel with”–it’s not even correct usage (it should be either “dispense with” or just “dispel,” without “with”). You’d think that with all that rehearsal, he could at least say it right. Then again, maybe it’s designed for rube appeal.
MattF
@Uncle Cosmo: And, you may recall, he was the R VP candidate last time– so he doesn’t lack ambition. So, one could argue that if Romney’s out, then Ryan’s the natural choice. I think he’d be a rather strong candidate– at least compared to the current doofus caucus.
Roger Moore
@glory b:
She apparently speaks cash. It’s the international language.
sukabi
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: pretty soon the money men are going to declare themselves No Label and THAT’S when Bloomberg launches his “independent” run for President. Republican party reincarnated as No Labels, God Botherer Party returns to irrelevance.
Roger Moore
@Tractarian:
I think it can be said better. Obama is trying to make us more like the rest of the first world. That’s a huge blow to people who would like to make us more like the third world.
J R in WV
@WereBear:
Yeh, I almost feel bad for making fun of him, never laugh at the disabled was taught to me very early, before I remember, really.
But he is a volunteer, running for President of MY country! So, no mercy! What if he were elected somehow? No mercy!
Iowa Old Lady
@NonyNony: And they can always use her to make the argument that Trump isn’t anti-immigrant. See, he’s married to one. He just hates “the illegals.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MattF: I thought Christie should’ve sat this round out– if he’s not indicted the bridge thing would’ve faded while he grazed in the tall grass and went on the Sunday shows to pose as an elder statesman– he can wait for years or even eight. Ryan’s even younger and has (as yet) not much baggage
gogol's wife
A friend of mine just pointed out that Frank Sinatra’s character in The Manchurian Candidate is named Bennett Marco. Eerie.
rk
@MazeDancer:
They don’t have to. This crowd is racist to the core. They think Michelle Obama is classless and Sarah Palin and her trashy brood is the bee’s knees. They’ll totally embrace an Eastern European playboy model because she’s blond and white. As long as she’s republican they’ll accept a porn star as FLOTUS.
MattF
@gogol’s wife: Ah, yes:
Baud
@rk: Agree.
randy khan
I must say, if you want someone for the job of cutting somebody off and insulting him, Christie’s your guy. And Rubio couldn’t have given him a better opportunity.
pamelabrown53
@gogol’s wife:
Marco, The Manchurian Candidate , sounds like a winning meme.
Must say, as a a committed BJ lurker, I’m enjoying this thread a lot more than Hillary Rettig’s. This thread, smart,humorous and intelligent is a reason that BJ is at the top of my “Most Visited” list.
Carry on.
gogol's wife
@pamelabrown53:
It makes me nervous to have Democrats fighting with each other. I like focusing on the Klown Kar.
hueyplong
Got a rooting interest now. Bush, Kasich and Christie in a statistical tie for second with Carson next, Cruz below them and Rubio trailing the field, including Fiorina. Everybody still in and thrashing about in the demolition derby.
Then a nation turns its lonely eyes to what C Pierce calls the Home Office of Secession. Can’t think of a more appropriate state to select the early favorite to win the Confed– err– GOP nomination.
gene108
I remember George W. Bush being lauded for his ability to “stay on script” and “stick to his message” no matter what was asked of him in 2000 and 2004.
My how times change. Poor Marco.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@sukabi:
There’s a substantial argument to be made that God-bothering and white supremacy are really bad for business. There’s a substantial cohort of Republican money folks in Manhattan, Westchester County, Western Connecticut, Las Vegas, Miami, Chicago and LA that would snap their checkbooks shut on a Hillary vs Cruz or Trump election. Some would even flip. Even Goldman Sachs, now that it has had a taste of Ted, would balk. The only way the spigot opens is on a Christie, Kasich, Rubio or Bush run.
That is a structural advantage this cycle, which is lost if Bernie gets the nom.
Baud
@gene108: It helps that he has a Republican mocking him. If it’s Rubio v. Dem in the general, expect him to get the W. treatment.
Frankensteinbeck
@sukabi:
The problem with that: The Money Men have 1% of the vote. Without the God Botherers, they have no party.
Chip Daniels
The GOP race seems more and more like something out of Lord Of The Flies, or one of those merciless dog packs where they are waiting for the most vicious alpha to turn on the others.
The cruel beatdown is what the base lives for- the sight of a bully tormenting a helpless victim is what delights them. For decades, they have been promised that this time, finally, THOSE people would be whipped, mercilessly crushed and broken, and the rightful order restored and with each administration where their dreams are frustrated, they grow ever more enraged.
lgerard
@gene108:
Remember in 2008 when republicans dismissed Obama as a “celebrity”.
Evidently that criticism no longer applies now that republicans have an actual celebrity as their front runner.
Roger Moore
@Frankensteinbeck:
I think you’re underestimating the importance of money. It’s easy to overestimate it, as people like Carly Fiorina did in California, but it can make a real difference. It’s especially important if those money people own large media companies, since that lets them control who gets attention.
Kay
@Baud:
No, good point. I’m the wrong person to talk to. I think Jeb has a path to the nomination. I operate in an alternate reality at this point. I told my son (a Clinton supporter) my theory and he said “that’s not a popular theory because it’s insane”.
Like 30 things have to happen in a month and a half :)
Brachiator
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Ted Cruz gets a big chunk of financial support from a billionaire hedge fund guy. The Koch Brothers, and others, are as much about ideology as they are about business.
Frankensteinbeck
@Roger Moore:
If money owned elections, Romney would have won. Yes, it has power, maybe even lots of it. Not enough to come even close to making up for cutting the majority of the GOP voters out of their party. We’re not talking about removing an annoying fringe, like our Naderites. The evangelicals and moderate-to-overt racists, who will move as a group if pushed, are the main Republican voting block. If they cut out 50% of their voters and pick up even 10% of Democrats (and both of those numbers are being kind), they’re screwed.
Baud
@Kay:
I assume if he doesn’t finish at least third in New Hampshire (aka first), he’s finished.
Brachiator
@Kay:
I could not watch the full GOP debate. I had to microwave some oatmeal, watch paint dry, all more interesting than the GOP Circus. But after reading about it and watching some of the clips, I will make a bold prediction that both Rubio and Trump will under perform in New Hampshire. Trump may not even win the thing at all.
Attacking Jeb!, standard operating procedure. Attacking the audience? He can’t help himself. He’s the Bluster man who must always counter punch, but when you attack the people you expect to vote for you, you risk alienating even die hard supporters.
In post debate interviews on the Sunday shows, Trump comes across as an empty suit on foreign policy and the economy, and the latter area is supposed to be his strong suit. He partly made up for it with his “all torture all the time” rhetoric, meat for his core supporters, but I think that he has started to become unhinged since his decision to skip the last debate.
Rubio painfully demonstrated that he is poor at thinking on his little boots. I guess he was intent on reminding his audience that Obama is the Devil, but couldn’t get out of pathetic robot mode. If not for the loser flop sweat, you’d swear that he was a defective Ken doll, not a human being at all.
Jeb! is full of sound and fury, but he is still signifying nothing.
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay: Our children have to keep us humble.
lgerard
I can’t say I was surprised about last nights outcome. It was only a matter of time before the bright glare of attention exposed Rubio for what he is…a small time hustler who was lucky to be in the right place at the right time for awhile, but is now in way over his head. I expect in January 2017 he will be where he belongs, as a spokesmodel in the wingnut welfare world.
What did surprise me is that after all the bloviating Christie did about “personal responsibility” no one had the temerity to go after him. His tenure as NJ Governor is a target rich environment.
Brachiator
@Kay:
Jeb! is a dead man walking. Nobody wants him except his mother and some of the money men. Unfortunately, the money men have not been able to sway the voters.
I think that Cruz will do well in New Hampshire. I think that Trump will surprisingly under perform, and certainly not come in first. Yeah, maybe wishful thinking. But I think he is starting to become unhinged. I expected him to take a swing a Jeb, but Trump is a fool to attack the audience. And he wounded himself by sitting out the last debate. In the Sunday shows, he came across as an empty suit on foreign policy and the economy, and the latter is supposed to be his strong suit. He doesn’t seem able to build on his already overly simplistic message.
Little Boots Rubio was more robotic than a Ken doll. I don’t see him moving up very much.
Kay
@Baud:
I just keep going back to that Jeb is going to fight another establishment candidate getting the nom. A Trump or a Cruz would be bearable. A Christie or a Kasich or a Rubio would not. He can’t lose in his own lane.
Aleta
Jeb on the other hand had to practice that laugh over and over and over.
This is the moment he’s been waiting for, though.
gene108
@RepubAnon:
You would have to revise the tax code to mirror generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) (for U.S. accounting), with regards to revenue and expense recognition.
The tax code can be a bit arbitray, but I do not see how you can completely have it mirror GAAP, as there is a lot of discretion allowed in terms of how you categorize and recognize expenses and revenues in GAAP.
The tax code tries to allow for less discretion in how revenue and expenses are recognized, which set up the differences that allow for reported profits and taxable income to be different.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
What’s he going to do about it? The boy is a fumble-fingered yutz. It’s not like he’s actually been biding his time and waiting to strike. He’s come out swinging, and he’s that kid in the cartoons whose fists flail around while you hold his head at arm’s length and everybody laughs.
If it’s a brokered convention, things could get weird. I can’t figure he has any other options.
kindness
What we say doesn’t really matter to the right though. The right wing’s epistemic closure is legendary and completely obvious. The problem is the MSM’s conventional wisdom comes from those closed thought legends. It takes a monumental thing for the MSM to remove the spectacles of stupid from their gaze. Like the 2008/9 melt down. That’s why Obama got a pass. Bush43’s ineptitude wasn’t even secondary.
We don’t have anything like that right now. So the MSM navel gazes about Hillary’s e-mails or Obama’s unwillingness to work across the aisle. I’d say we’re fucked but I think there is enough of us to cover the idiots out there. We just gotta vote. We gotta get others to vote.
John Revolta
@lgerard: Christie’s evisceration of Rubio just proved to the rest of the field that you don’t wanna get into a shit-flinging match with the guy from Jersey.
Shell
Maybe Rubio was hoping that the audience wouldn’t remember the same phrase repeated during a nearly three hour debate (three hours!) After all, all the candidates act like the american public has the memory of a fruit fly.
Scott P.
Maybe I missed it, but the problem last night is that although he was the second one out from behind the stage, they actually didn’t introduce him second. Which meant either he was walking out when they were introducing someone else or that he had to awkwardly remain on the side of the stage. Not sure there was a very graceful way to deal with that issue.
kc
@gf120581:
That works for me.
Another Holocene Human
@gf120581:
Letting pregnant women die for other peoples’ morals isn’t Scroogey enough? “And so reduce the excess population!”
Robert Sneddon
@Frankensteinbeck: The nomination process and eventual election is like a high-stakes poker game, if you want to belly up to the table you gotta have a big pile of chips. However if you’re worrying about accumulating that pile of chips to start with then you’re one step behind the other players before a card is dealt.
It’s what a candidate can achieve with their donations and financial support, not how much of it there is but it helps a lot to know that you’ll never run out of chips to keep playing no matter what happens. John Ellis Bush is in that fortunate position because Bush family so I believe assumptions of his imminent demise are greatly exaggerated. Similarly he gains support from within the Republican establishment because Daddy and Bro and Granddaddy are/were all part of that establishment back in the day and favours are owed and debts can be called in, the same way you or I might remind our siblings about the time we baled them out of a hole half a generation back.
On the Democratic side of the fence Hillary is in the same position as JEB, able to call in IOUs racked up over the past few decades in the Democratic world, reminding superdelegates in Congress about stumping for them back in the day, providing financial support and “word in the ear” recommendations for advancement. Bernie can only try to keep raising cash to fund offices and staffers in dozens of states because he was an Independent (and will be again if and when he loses the nomination race) and there are no Democratic Party IOUs in his back pocket. If he runs out of cash he’s dead meat.
Another Holocene Human
@Trentrunner: I read that as between the two of them their brains amount to one hemisphere, which sounds about right. Donald got the basal parts…
Another Holocene Human
@Brachiator: If you’re in resource extraction, the Dems are going to be bad for business, compared to your profit margin with a Dubya and suchlike.
There are lots of businesses to be in.
pamelabrown53
@gogol’s wife:
I like focusing on the Klown Kar too. Which is why I’m freaked out that the “Bernie Bro”phenomena appears to be making the jump from social media to the real world.
redshirt
@lgerard:
I remember being shocked/appalled/frustrated that the GOP could take the fact that Obama was not just energizing millions of Americans but millions of people across the world and turn that into a negative attack ad.
His speech in Berlin was one my fondest, most unique memories of the 2008 campaign. It was like the world was reaching out to us to try and forgive and forget the W. years. And it became an attack ad.
Not sure how successful it was though.
Brachiator
@redshirt:
I forgot how Obama had such an impact on the international scene. Frightened Republicans, and even some Democrats, tried to deride him as a rock star riding the wave of empty charisma.
The attacks did not work at all, and even now conservatives have to lie about how Obama is perceived by people around the world.
Joel
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: The Republican establishment will make peace with Trump, if the need arises. When the party differences become starker, a lot of these guys will act more in line with their bigotry than their (apparent) self-interest. As it always has been.
Zinsky
Most of the points about Marco Rubio upthread, assume that the GOP and its constituents are rational actors. They aren’t! I predict Rubio will be the nominee, just because Cruz is ineligible and Trump won’t toe the party line. I also predict Hillary will win the nomination on the Dem side and beat sweaty young Marco like a rented mule. Probably by the biggest margin since Reagan destroyed Walter Mondale.
catclub
@Trentrunner:
Chris Christie fan!
catclub
@Scott P.:
They did. They announced him and he apparently didn’t hear them. So he was waiting for something that had already come.
MazeDancer
@Shell:
Cokie Roberts mentioned on MTP – yes, I watched (on DVR, holding remote) to see post debate reactions – that Rubio’s ads used the exact same phrase. So, his saturation ad buy during the time most people in NH make up their minds is Young Marco saying over and over and over what he couldn’t stop saying last night.
Wonder how many people think of Christie when they hear Marco repeating the robot words?
By the way, Bill Kristol couldn’t say enough good about John Kasich’s chances.
catclub
@Frankensteinbeck:
I really should bet on Paul Ryan to come out of a brokered convention.
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
They don’t need more than 1% of the vote personally. They can “buy” the rest. They’ve been doing it for a while now.
catclub
@Tom Q:
but Quayle won the election. Does this mean marco can look like and idiot and still win the nomination?
sigaba
@MattF: Rubio does kinda remind me of Lawrence Harvey…
Sasha
I think some folks (men, I imagine) underestimate how much middle aged women despise trophy wives. It isn’t beautiful wives, that are the problem, or even necessarily wives that are significantly younger than their husbands. It’s the pretty, young wife who is a replacement model that smarts. Just wondering how many older, Republican women who are moderate in their outlook will respond to the choice of Hilary vs Trump and his young bippy (as I call them). Maybe the Republican men won’t have a problem with her but the women will. I would put money on it.
Gvg
I think some of the racists in the GOP base will care about Trumps foreign wife and others won’t. It is not an advantage.
There is something wrong with Carson and I have begun to pity him. I don’t want him in any office though and wonder if he shouldn’t have a drivers license.
JEB never had a chance. His last name is still too toxic. His party wants to forget W existed without publicly admitting how much they and he screwed up. He must have gotten lots of bad advice to even have tried.
One of them has to get the nomination but they all have such serious flaws I can’t guess who.
PatrickG
@@Trentrunner: Trentrunner:
Can we please not? We are, after all, supposed to an effervescent spark of a modicum of an iota better than that.
Of course, after reading the rest of your comment, I see you disagree. Jesus Christ, dude.
ETA: I don’t comment much, but I’m a bit unsure why clicking the Reply link gives me @@ and Trentrunner: Trentrunner. Don’t they
payask someone nicely to fix things like that around here? :)